REL GENRL Have We Anointed An Unworthy Shepherd?

Sully

Sully

Inactive
I don't really know much about the Mormon religion but I know there are Mormon's on this board. I admire Glenn Beck for the way he is bringing the people together promoting God, America, and Constitution.
I have bolded some of the content of this article that I hope the ones that know the Morman Theology will comment on and tell me if that is or is not the belief of Mormans.

Mods..this is not just about religion but if you feel that it needs to be moved then by all means, move it.

Sully

Have We Anointed An Unworthy Shepherd?

Could we say that the church has failed to wake up very many people so, by default, a Mormon -- Glenn Beck -- has made quite a stir and has become an official spiritual leader? He rallied hundreds of thousands last weekend with themes of faith and love of our country. Americans are desperate and fearful of what is coming upon this land so they look to a Mormon for leadership. I am glad his Saturday event was successful for just some of these reasons:

* Americans came to celebrate America after the highest leaders in our land have trashed her around the world.

* They focused on what was right in America and they also honored our military.

* Faith and patriotism were lifted up -- two items that the Left despises.

* Attendees were passionate -- traveling thousands of miles and, once arriving in D.C., walking for miles, even if handicapped.

* Conservative Americans must gather together to fortify one another. Such events strengthen one another and offer hope. Finding kindred spirits in a depressing age is essential.

* Whether the Left heard or not, the attendees sent a message that they are fed up. November is around the corner and they had better look out.

In light of the positive aspects of the honoring America weekend, could there possibly be a down side? I tried to do a fair and balanced radio program last Saturday, August 28, with Brannon Howse, former Mormon Ed Decker, and apologetics' expert Eric Barger. We raised a few issues, and you can hear them here. I have received some thanks for the honesty and integrity of the two hours, and a few hate e-mails and calls for the position the panel took, which will be explained in the paragraphs below.

The theme of the Friday gathering of spiritual leaders and the Saturday rally was an encouragement to turn back to God. The not-so-subtle theme was "many faiths, but one God."

I believe many conservative Christians would have been relieved if Glenn had not brought out Mormon doctrine that very few are familiar with. He stated at the Saturday event that the American Indians are the "chosen people" -- blatant Mormon doctrine. The crowd applauded in approval. You can view that here at the 4:30 mark.

He stated -- and has affirmed this on his radio and television programs -- that God is the only answer. While much was troublesome last weekend, who else is sticking their neck out saying we have to turn back to God and gathering hundreds of thousands in the process? It would be wonderful if Franklin Graham or even Joel Rosenberg could attract a half-million people and deliver the true gospel. We aren't quite there yet. Again, by default, we defer to Glenn Beck.

The weekend opened on Friday night, Augsust 27, with Glenn's "Divine Destiny" program which again, is straight out of Mormonism. Many participants have implied, or blatantly stated, that Glenn is a "saved Mormon" or on the way to becoming one.

Friend and frequent radio guest John McTernan, was present both days just to observe. He writes on his blog, "There were several prayers offered at the Friday event and none were made in the name of Jesus. I was deeply grieved after I left.

"On Saturday, I attended the rally. If it had been just political, I could accept Beck as a leader; however, it went way beyond that. I am not questioning anything about Beck's character or motives. What I am deeply grieved about is that this was not led by the real church of the Lord Jesus Christ. Is America in such desperate spiritual condition that masses of Christians will follow a Mormon for spiritual revival?"

McTernan continues, "The sheep in America are desperate and fearful of what is coming, so they look to a Mormon for leadership. A Mormon leading a meeting like this for America turning back to God should have God-fearing pastors in America on their knees crying out to God for mercy. I am grieved, not so much with Glenn Beck, but that the church is so pitifully weak that a Mormon can now lead God's people, and they do not see the spiritual danger."

What are major Mormon beliefs and how do they play into this scenario? When God is the professed focus of the August 27-28 weekend, what is the deeper meaning? And Glenn is outspoken about his Mormon faith. He so-stated that fact many times over the weekend and in the weeks and months leading up to it. It was not subtle or hidden. But Glenn does not bring out the bullet points below because it reads like science fiction.

Mormon theology teaches:

* God was born and raised on another planet.

* He has a harem of wives.

* They produce spirit-babies that are sent to earth; there they gain bodies and earn sainthood.

* Jesus is the brother of Lucifer.

* Jesus is the chosen/elected savior by a council of gods from other worlds.

* America is the promised land, not Israel. The holy city is Independence, Missouri, not Jerusalem. Jesus' latter-day agenda is to return to Missouri.

* The U.S. Constitution is as sacred as the Book of Mormon. In the latter days, it will be under siege and will be saved by Mormons. Thus, we must "reclaim America" to save the Constitution and usher in a genuine age of Mormon leadership. They want to build a Mormon kingdom on earth, similar to modern day Dominionists/Kingdom Now proponents within Christianity. Founder Joseph Smith had a socialistic philosophy and wished to have a society that shared things in common.

* America's founding fathers were "spirit babies" who created a "sacred Constitution."

* Salvation is works-based and not through grace and faith.

This is what Glenn Beck believes. Is the god of this system, this faith, the one he referred to when he stated, "Today, America turns back to God?" Is his god concept one we can turn back to?

For greater insights, visit the Web site of former Mormon and radio guest, Ed Decker. Also visit the apologetics' site of Eric Barger.

Brannon Howse has done extensive radio programs and written cutting-edge articles on this issue for over a week.

Jim Garlow, a popular and influential pastor who partnered with the Mormon faithful in California to defend traditional marriage, was quoted recently in CNN's Belief Blog, saying, "I have interviewed persons who have talked specifically with Glenn about his personal salvation -- persons extremely well known in Christianity -- and they have affirmed (using language evangelicals understand), 'Glenn is saved. He understands receiving Christ as Savior.' "

In short, Mormonism has a different holy book, father, Jesus, concept of grace, salvation, end-times, etc. You cannot be a "saved Mormon." Evangelicals who should know better already call him a "brother in Christ." Some of those share the Mormon "dominion" of the earth and this is their connection. Promoting this false end-time theology of making the earth perfect seems to trump everything else. We can't save the earth and make it perfect. Jesus Christ has to return to do that.

So, was the following the purpose? Brannon Howse has posted a story at his Worldview Weekend site that the LDS Examiner states through Mormon writer Greg West, "As a Mormon, I have to consider an unintended message throughout Beck's work, which has culminated in this event. That message is: 'Mormons are Christian believers. Despite nearly two centuries of misrepresentation and religious envy by sectarian Christianity, Beck has achieved the visibility, prominence, and has had the time day after day, week after week, to speak openly and truly about his core beliefs. Those statements of faith have disoriented and confused those who had previously believed the lies about Mormons."

West has proved our point. "Evangelicals and Mormons Together" will be next. Why not? A Mormon successfully called a nation back to God.

Most who stand with Glenn, however, do not embrace this theology. Some Christian leaders are just deceived and others think it is hip and cool to align themselves with a man who is so prominent and so pro-America.

John McTernan states, "I know Mormonism real well. There is a Mormon prophecy that America is going to be nearly destroyed with the Constitution hanging by a thread. A Mormon savior would arrive and lead the Mormon church to save America. I can see this coming into play real soon. Maybe the revival Beck is talking about is a massive conversion to Mormonism."

We sincerely hope Glenn Beck will become a true brother in Christ. We can pray to that end and also that Christian leaders will sharpen their discernment and understand the disservice they are doing to the body of Christ by exalting an unsaved man, and allowing him to be a virtual shepherd over millions of Americans who just want to take back America.

By Jan Markell www.olivetreeviews.org
 
Sully

Sully

Inactive
Army Girl said:
I suggest people choose their own ideas, we don't need Glen Beck or Jan Markell.
Click to expand...

This isn't about choosing your own ideas. And actually I think we do need someone to unite the people to stand up for God and Country.

Sully
 
Laurane

Laurane

Canadian Loonie
The 11th Article of Faith of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints:

"We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may".

If Glenn Beck is trying to act as a faithful Mormon should, he would believe this - and not try to force his religion on anyone......and he didn't. Just because other people disagree on different things, does not make Glenn Beck an Unworthy Shepherd leading people astray. You do not know for sure that YOU are correct in all your doctrines.

GB is a media person who has the economic means and the exposure to be able to promote an event like Restoring Honor. Honorable, righteous people of all different religious persuasions are needed.......don't you think the Founding Fathers all believed different doctrines about the God they worshipped.....or not. And didn't they put aside any differences to write a Document to ensure the freedom of those who followed?

.............allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. With honor.
 
D

dragonslayer2001

Inactive
....

who has annointed whom?


Beck is having rallys and drawing a good crowd. When you get that much juice let the rest of US know. Until then it looks like sour grapes.



If a damned pagan showed up with a real conviction of the Constitution, had a firm grasp of it, and was of good character and strong moral fiber I'd applaud him/her.
 
A

Army Girl

Inactive
It is about Glen Beck and his ideas and Jan Markell wrote it containing her ideas. If you like change teachings for ideas.
 
Captain D

Captain D

Senior Member
All the Mormons I know are good, red-blooded, gun-totin' Americans. They are welcome to live in my neighborhood anytime. I don't mind having them involved in politics, either. I don't know who ever got the idea that they are bad people. I've seen much worse.
 
A

Army Girl

Inactive
Markell is a zionist who doesn't like mormons. She is not qualified to give any suggestions about who should be doing anything.
 
Sully

Sully

Inactive
Okay, first thing first. I might be mistaken but it sounds like some of you think I'm demoralizing the Mormon religion. I am most definitely not. I didn't write the article..I just posted it.

I know several Mormons (including a few relatives) and I admire most of them but not because they are Mormons..because they are good people. I know very little about the Mormon beliefs and that's why I asked about the beliefs in the article.
My uncle and his family are Mormon and he often sends me emails, some are religious and I guess I assumed their belief was the same as mine about Jesus being the only begotten Son of God. That's why I asked about the highlighted parts in the article.

Sully
 
B

blueridge

...
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."


This wasn't about shepherds or flocks - but of the right of the people to peaceably assemble and petition the government for a redress of grievances.

AND THEY DID.

AND THEY WILL end the brief, but tragic, period of One Party Rule by DC Tyrants in the Nov. 2010 elections.
 
Sully

Sully

Inactive
blueridge;3839375 This wasn't about shepherds or flocks - but of the right of the people to peaceably assemble and petition the government for a redress of grievances. AND THEY DID. AND THEY WILL end the brief said:
I think it was about Beck being a shepherd. Without his leadership I doubt there would have been such a huge gathering to petition the gov.
We needed a leader and he became that for us. And with the help of God we can and will end the tyranny that has taken over our country.

Sully
Click to expand...
 
L

Lone Wolf

Lives on TB
Jesus, God,will use who he may when He want's to

Jesus, is no respecter of religions, or of men. When you die you will either have the lable burned off or it will drop off.

He believes in the implicit, explicit word of the Holy Bible, as do I.

lw
 
S

SassyinAZ

Inactive
I don't think it's about following or annointing a mormon of necessarily the specific beliefs whether we know what they are or not, I think Glenn Beck is a leader that people can get behind and relate to, he happens to be mormon.
 
B

Ben Sunday

Has No Life - Lives on TB
People should be able to rally around a public figure without the crap that is swirling around Glenn Beck. Look again...it was about restoring HONOR. It was, in my best estimation, a call to FAITH. In other words, God, as you see and perceive.

Beck is no spiritual icon. A flawed man by his own admission. Just like the rest of us. Albeit from my secular perspective, I would respectfully remind the readers that only one perfect man ever walked this Earth. Just look what the critics did to him.

I applaud the effort to put some fiber in the psyche of the American public.
 
D

dragonslayer2001

Inactive
..........

explicit and implicite words of the Bible? Including the bad parts?



Passages from the Hebrew Scriptures that sanction slavery:
There are many Bible passages which directly sanction and regulate slavery. Quoting from the KJV (except as noted) some of these passages are:

The Ten Commandments: Rabbi M.J. Raphall (circa 1861) justified human slavery on the basis of the 10th commandment. It places slaves

"... under the same protection as any other species of lawful property...That the Ten Commandments are the word of G-d, and as such, of the very highest authority, is acknowledged by Christians as well as by Jews...

How dare you, in the face of the sanction and protection afforded to slave property in the Ten Commandments--how dare you denounce slaveholding as a sin?

When you remember that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Job--the men with whom the Almighty conversed, with whose names he emphatically connects his own most holy name, and to whom He vouchsafed to give the character of 'perfect, upright, fearing G-d and eschewing evil' (Job 1:8)--that all these men were slaveholders, does it not strike you that you are guilty of something very little short of blasphemy?" 1

Exodus 20:17"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's."
Deuteronomy 5:21"Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbor's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbor's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbor's.


Beating and Killing Slaves: Although an owner could beat a male or female slave, she/he would have to avoid serious injury to eyes or teeth. The owner would have to avoid beating the slave to death. But it was acceptable to beat a slave so severely that it only disabled him or her for two days: Exodus 21:20-21 "And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money [property]."

Exodus 21:26-27 "And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake."

Emancipation of Slaves: Slaves in ancient Israel were automatically emancipated after 6 years of slavery, but only if they were Jewish. However, if the slave owner "gave" the slave a wife, the owner could keep the wife and any children as his property.

Passages in Exodus state that female slaves who were sold into slavery by their fathers would be slaves forever. A corresponding passage in Exodus contradicts this; it required female slaves to be given their freedom after 6 years.

One could purchase a slave from a foreign nation or from foreigners living with them. These slaves would remain in slavery forever, unless the owner chooses to frees them An Israelite who was a slave could be freed by a family member or by himself if he had the money. The cost of freeing a slave was computed on the basis of the number of years to the next Jubilee Year; this could be 1 to 50 years. Male Israelite slaves were automatically freed during the Jubilee Year. Depending upon which verse was being followed, female Israelite slaves might also have been freed at that time as well. Foreign slaves were out of luck. Exodus 21:1-4: "If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself."

Deuteronomy 15:12-18: "And if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee.And when thou sendest him out free from thee, thou shalt not let him go away empty: Thou shalt furnish him liberally out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress: of that wherewith the LORD thy God hath blessed thee thou shalt give unto him."

Exodus 21:7: "And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do."

Leviticus 25:44-46: "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." (NIV)

Leviticus 25:48-53: "After that he is sold he may be redeemed again; one of his brethren may redeem him: Either his uncle, or his uncle's son, may redeem him, or any that is nigh of kin unto him of his family may redeem him; or if he be able, he may redeem himself. And he shall reckon with him that bought him from the year that he was sold to him unto the year of jubilee: and the price of his sale shall be according unto the number of years, according to the time of an hired servant shall it be with him."

Restrictions on the Re-selling of Slaves: A slave was considered a piece of property, and thus could normally be resold to anyone at any time for any reason. However, special rules applied for Hebrew slaves. If a person bought a female slave from her father and she displeased him, he had no right to sell her to a foreign owner. If the owner required her to marry his son, then the owner was required to treat her like a daughter-in-law. If the owner marries his slave and later marries another woman, he was required to treat his slave as he previously had. If he violates any of these requirements, then she must be emancipated.

But she would leave without any money or means of supporting herself; she would be free, but abandoned. Exodus 21:8: "If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters. If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish. And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money."

Sexual Activity with an Engaged Female Slave: A man who rapes or engages in consensual sex with a female slave who is engaged to be married to another man must sacrifice an animal in the temple in order to obtain God's forgiveness. The female slave would be whipped. There is apparently no punishment or ritual animal killing required if the female slave were not engaged; men could rape such slaves with impunity.

Leviticus 19:20-22: "And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free. And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, even a ram for a trespass offering. And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the LORD for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him."


Purchasing a Brother as a Slave: If a man is sold into slavery due to poverty and his brother purchases him, then the man must be treated as a hired hand or as a guest of the brother. He would be not be free to leave, but was required to serve until the Jubilee Year, which occurs every 50 years. This would often require him to serve his brother for the rest of his life. Some translations (e.g. Living Bible) refer to"a fellow Israelite" rather than "brother." The fate of a woman being bought by her brother is unclear.

Leviticus 25:39: "And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee; thou shalt not compel him to serve as a bondservant: But as an hired servant, and as a sojourner, he shall be with thee, and shall serve thee unto the year of jubilee: And then shall he depart from thee, both he and his children with him, and shall return unto his own family, and unto the possession of his fathers shall he return."

Punishment for Criminals or Debtors: A person who kidnaps a fellow Israelite and makes him a slave or sells him into slavery would be stoned to death. If a thief is caught and cannot make full restitution, he would be sold as a slave. A debtor who could not pay back creditors might be sold into slavery or have his children sold. Exodus 21:16: "And he that stealeth [kidnaps] a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death."

Deuteronomy 24:7: "If a man be found stealing any of his brethren of the children of Israel, and maketh merchandise of him, or selleth him; then that thief shall die; and thou shalt put evil away from among you."
Exodus 22:3: "...he should make full restitution; if he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft."

II Kings 4:1: "Now there cried a certain woman of the wives of the sons of the prophets unto Elisha, saying, Thy servant my husband is dead; and thou knowest that thy servant did fear the LORD: and the creditor is come to take unto him my two sons to be bondmen."

Enslaving Women Captives: In a foreign war, an Israelite could take any woman as a slave-wife, even if it were against her will. He would put her through what could be regarded as a period of ritual abuse. If he later dislikes her, he can grant her freedom, but cannot sell her to another slave owner. Deuteronomy 21:10-14: "When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;

Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her [i.e. rape her or engage in consensual sex], and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her."

Deuteronomy 20:14" "But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself"

Runaway Slaves: If a slave runs away from his owner and comes to you, then you are not to return the slave to his owner. Rather, you are to let him live in any town in your area. Deuteronomy 23:15-16: "Thou shalt not deliver unto his master the servant which is escaped from his master unto thee: He shall dwell with thee, even among you, in that place which he shall choose in one of thy gates, where it liketh him best: thou shalt not oppress him."

Circumcision of Slaves: A male slave would be required to undergo circumcision. This would be a very painful operation for an adult. It was life-threatening in the days before modern medical techniques. A small percentage of slaves would die from infection caused by the operation. Genesis 17:13: "He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant."
Genesis 17:27: "And all the men of his house, born in the house, and bought with money of the stranger, were circumcised with him."

Priests as Slave Owners: God ordered Moses to wage war against the Midianites, because the latter had attempted to convert the Israelites to their religion. They Israelite soldiers killed every male Midianite, but initially spared the lives of the women and children. Moses was angry at this act of mercy, and in an act of near genocide, ordered that all of the women and children be murdered in cold blood, allowing only 32,000 female virgins to live.

All of the booty, including the surviving girls and virgin women, was then divided into two equal portions: one for the soldiers and the rest for the people of Israel. 0.1% of the slaves from the first half and 2% of the slaves from the second half were considered the Lord's share. i.e. they were to be given to the priests. The priests ended up with 365 female virgins; one for each day of the year. Numbers 31:28-47: "And levy a tribute unto the LORD of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep: Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the LORD.And of the children of Israel's half, thou shalt take one portion of fifty, of the persons, of the beeves, of the asses, and of the flocks, of all manner of beasts, and give them unto the Levites, which keep the charge of the tabernacle of the LORD."

Slaves Owning Slaves: Saul's slave Ziba owned 20 slaves of his own: 2 Samuel 9:10: "...Now Ziba had fifteen sons and twenty servants."

Raping Slaves: Being property, female slaves could be required to engage in sexual intercourse and become pregnant against their will. The perpetrator could be their owner, or anyone that their owner designates:

Genesis 16:1-2: "Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar. And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai."

Genesis 30:3-4: "And she said, Behold my maid Bilhah, go in unto her; and she shall bear upon my knees, that I may also have children by her. And she gave him Bilhah her handmaid to wife: and Jacob went in unto her."
Genesis 30:9-10: "When Leah saw that she had left bearing, she took Zilpah her maid, and gave her Jacob to wife. And Zilpah Leah's maid bare Jacob a son."

Slaves Given the weekly Sabbath off: Slaves were not required to work on Saturday. Exodus 20:10: "But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:"




Reference used:
M.J, Raphall, "The Bible view of slavery," 1861-JAN-15, at: http://www.jewish-history.com/


http://www.religioustolerance.org/sla_bibl1.htm
 
G

Garryowen

Deceased
Glenn Beck is, IMO, doing a great service to America by exposing the agenda of the NWO and the persons who are supporting it in our .gov. I admire many things about Mormons, and would probably find them pleasant neighbors. When it comes to ethics and patriotism, Evangelical Christians and Mormons have much in common.

That being said, orthodox Christians should avoid projecting their own concepts onto the words used by Glenn. We do have some doctrinal differences that are significant, and need to remember that the Bible is the basis for Christian doctrine. ( We can also debate without blood-letting.)

regards,

Garryowen
 
Ender

Ender

Inactive
Let's get some perspective here:

Mormon theology teaches:

* God was born and raised on another planet.

Mormon Doctrine teaches: "As man is, God once was; as God is, man may be."

* He has a harem of wives.

Mormon Doctrine teaches: The family is eternal and husbands, wives and children can be together forever.


* They produce spirit-babies that are sent to earth; there they gain bodies and earn sainthood.

Mormon Doctrine teaches: that all resided in the Spirit before coming to earth.

* Jesus is the brother of Lucifer.

Mormon Doctrine teaches: that all in the spirit world were brothers and sisters.

* Jesus is the chosen/elected savior by a council of gods from other worlds.

Mormon Doctrine teaches: Jesus is the only begotten; the Son of God and was chosen from the beginning by Elohim.

* America is the promised land, not Israel. The holy city is Independence, Missouri, not Jerusalem. Jesus' latter-day agenda is to return to Missouri.

Mormon Doctrine teaches: America is the latter day promised land and that the Garden of Eden was where we now call Missouri.

* The U.S. Constitution is as sacred as the Book of Mormon. In the latter days, it will be under siege and will be saved by Mormons. Thus, we must "reclaim America" to save the Constitution and usher in a genuine age of Mormon leadership. They want to build a Mormon kingdom on earth, similar to modern day Dominionists/Kingdom Now proponents within Christianity. Founder Joseph Smith had a socialistic philosophy and wished to have a society that shared things in common.

Mormon Doctrine teaches: the Constitution is an inspired document; Joseph Smith prophesied that the day would come when it would be in danger and "hang like a thread"; he counseled that all who loved the Constitution should be ready to save it, if necessary. Mormons look forward to a Zion on earth where all who wish can hold all things in common and there shall be no poor among them; this is not, nor has it ever been, mandatory.


* America's founding fathers were "spirit babies" who created a "sacred Constitution."

Mormon Doctrine teaches: FF are not referred to as "spirit babies"

* Salvation is works-based and not through grace and faith.

Mormon Doctrine teaches: Salvation is based on faith and good works through the grace and atonement of Jesus Christ.
 
workerbee

workerbee

* Winter is Coming *
Glenn encouraged the clergy, pastors, etc (Black Robe Brigade) to speak out in their congregations against collective salvation/social justice...some of them said if they did, they could lose half their congregation.

James Dobson said he would start making that point last Sunday, and said something to the effect of

Leave it to a mormon, and an alcoholic at that, to tell us what we should already know​

I am paraphrasing losely, as reported by DH.

There were over 240 religious leaders in attendance on Saturday; there were more Friday night.
I watched a lot of the event at the Kennedy Center last Friday August 27th that many religious leaders attended.

I am not mormon, and I do not believe everything they believe in.

I breifly dated a mormon, and found them true to living the gospel as I know it more often than many other professing christians.
That being said, I can tell you I disagree with many of their beliefs, among them obstaining from caffeine. Faahgettaboutit.

However, to point out exactly how I feel as a longtime Glenn Beck fan, and having been at the Restoring Honor Rally and listening/watching Fridays events at the Kennedy Center, I will re-post what I originally posted on TOL 8/13.

It wasn't wildly accepted there, I have no doubt it will not be accepted here, but I believe what I believe.

Here's what I posted on 8/28 on TOL:

I love Glenn and watch him everyday, usually for 4 hours; 3 hours insider extreme radio webcast and 5pm tv show.

Once a week or so I watch the documentaries on the insider extreme, sometimes with David Barton, sometimes just history on Woodrow Wilson, etc.

I am going to The Restoring Honor Rally on 8/28 along with my DH and DD.
I'm sure it will be huge. I believe it will be bigger than the march on dc.

I will go even further.

I believe Glenn is the man of God for our time right now.

He's doing everything he can and then some to beg America to return to God and the foundation of our country which was divinely inspired.
Who else has done that?

And I love his humor.
And his heart.

He's got personality in spades and he is what he is.

Some people hate him for his personality.
Some people hate him for the truth he shares.

I love him for both.
 
Jeff Allen

Jeff Allen

Producer
I drove all the way to D.C. from IN with my, appearently, crazy familiy and MISSED THE ANOINTING????

Why in the hell didn't someone tell me?

DOH!

Whatever....blah...blah...blah...:stfu:

You know, it seems anytime anyone tries their best to do good....we are like crabs in a bucket and the rest of the crabs try to grab 'em and pull 'em back in.... Good grief I get tired of all the negativity. Beck is a guy just like me...trying his best.

If Glenn didn't get up and say it...God would probably raise a rock to do it we are so durned deaf and dumb it seems....

J
 
L

Lone Wolf

Lives on TB
The Old Testament or the Original Covernent, New testament.

The 4 Gospels pretty well spells things out.
The new Testament replaces the Old one.

I believe in the Old Testament as to it's truth.

The New Testament to live by.

Oh, and the 10 commandments...

They are not part of the New Testament.

They were specificaly written for the people of that time, and only the positive aspects of those Commandments were brought into the New Testement.

What do you think Jesus was crusified for? He supported that part of Rabinicle law that was Positive, and up-set the Temple money changes in mid work.

He also healed on the Sabath, and other things that the jews did not agree with.

lw
 
workerbee

workerbee

* Winter is Coming *
Jeff Allen said:
I drove all the way to D.C. from IN with my, appearently, crazy familiy and MISSED THE ANOINTING????

Why in the hell didn't someone tell me?

DOH!

Whatever....blah...blah...blah...:stfu:

You know, it seems anytime anyone tries their best to do good....we are like crabs in a bucket and the rest of the crabs try to grab 'em and pull 'em back in.... Good grief I get tired of all the negativity. Beck is a guy just like me...trying his best.

If Glenn didn't get up and say it...God would probably raise a rock to do it we are so durned deaf and dumb it seems....

J
Click to expand...

Exactly!
 
jed turtle

jed turtle

a brother in the Lord
so Beck is a Mormon, not a christian.

interesting what Jesus had to say about certain non-Jews:

Matthew 8
7And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.
8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
9For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. 11And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 10
29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"
30 In reply Jesus said: "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two silver coins[e] and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him,' he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.'
36"Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?"
37The expert in the law replied, "The one who had mercy on him."
Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise."


if Beck has filled the vacuum of spiritual leadership at this point in time, it is because God has gifted him and perhaps because other spiritual leaders didn't get the call, or drew back when it was given. frankly, give praise to God that Beck has the courage to do it. i only first noticed him when he was exposing the truth behind Islam a year or two ago. can you imagine the dangers he then exposed himself, his associates, and his family to by doing that? it takes a solid faith in God to take that risk.

now he is taking on the entire Obama crime syndicate plus the marxists and assorted perverted entourage that makes up the left. who is doing that in the pulpits on a national stage? i think we should get down on our knees and thank God that He has given Beck the courage and the platform to inform us what the hell is going on at the highest levels in our country.

give Glory to God, not Beck. pray for our country, our troops, and our families, and promise to do what God tells you to do.
 
duchess47

duchess47

Has No Life - Lives on TB
dragonslayer2001 said:
who has annointed whom?


Beck is having rallys and drawing a good crowd. When you get that much juice let the rest of US know. Until then it looks like sour grapes.



If a damned pagan showed up with a real conviction of the Constitution, had a firm grasp of it, and was of good character and strong moral fiber I'd applaud him/her.
Click to expand...

+1
 
jed turtle

jed turtle

a brother in the Lord
dragonslayer2001 said:
explicit and implicite words of the Bible? Including the bad parts?



Passages from the Hebrew Scriptures that sanction slavery:
There are many Bible passages which directly sanction and regulate slavery. Quoting from the KJV (except as noted) some of these passages are:

The Ten Commandments: Rabbi M.J. Raphall (circa 1861) justified human slavery on the basis of the 10th commandment. It places slaves

"... under the same protection as any other species of lawful property...That the Ten Commandments are the word of G-d, and as such, of the very highest authority, is acknowledged by Christians as well as by Jews...

How dare you, in the face of the sanction and protection afforded to slave property in the Ten Commandments--how dare you denounce slaveholding as a sin?

When you remember that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Job--the men with whom the Almighty conversed, with whose names he emphatically connects his own most holy name, and to whom He vouchsafed to give the character of 'perfect, upright, fearing G-d and eschewing evil' (Job 1:8)--that all these men were slaveholders, does it not strike you that you are guilty of something very little short of blasphemy?" 1

Exodus 20:17"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's."
Deuteronomy 5:21"Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbor's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbor's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbor's.


Beating and Killing Slaves: Although an owner could beat a male or female slave, she/he would have to avoid serious injury to eyes or teeth. The owner would have to avoid beating the slave to death. But it was acceptable to beat a slave so severely that it only disabled him or her for two days: Exodus 21:20-21 "And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money [property]."

Exodus 21:26-27 "And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake."

Emancipation of Slaves: Slaves in ancient Israel were automatically emancipated after 6 years of slavery, but only if they were Jewish. However, if the slave owner "gave" the slave a wife, the owner could keep the wife and any children as his property.

Passages in Exodus state that female slaves who were sold into slavery by their fathers would be slaves forever. A corresponding passage in Exodus contradicts this; it required female slaves to be given their freedom after 6 years.

One could purchase a slave from a foreign nation or from foreigners living with them. These slaves would remain in slavery forever, unless the owner chooses to frees them An Israelite who was a slave could be freed by a family member or by himself if he had the money. The cost of freeing a slave was computed on the basis of the number of years to the next Jubilee Year; this could be 1 to 50 years. Male Israelite slaves were automatically freed during the Jubilee Year. Depending upon which verse was being followed, female Israelite slaves might also have been freed at that time as well. Foreign slaves were out of luck. Exodus 21:1-4: "If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself."

Deuteronomy 15:12-18: "And if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee.And when thou sendest him out free from thee, thou shalt not let him go away empty: Thou shalt furnish him liberally out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress: of that wherewith the LORD thy God hath blessed thee thou shalt give unto him."

Exodus 21:7: "And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do."

Leviticus 25:44-46: "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." (NIV)

Leviticus 25:48-53: "After that he is sold he may be redeemed again; one of his brethren may redeem him: Either his uncle, or his uncle's son, may redeem him, or any that is nigh of kin unto him of his family may redeem him; or if he be able, he may redeem himself. And he shall reckon with him that bought him from the year that he was sold to him unto the year of jubilee: and the price of his sale shall be according unto the number of years, according to the time of an hired servant shall it be with him."

Restrictions on the Re-selling of Slaves: A slave was considered a piece of property, and thus could normally be resold to anyone at any time for any reason. However, special rules applied for Hebrew slaves. If a person bought a female slave from her father and she displeased him, he had no right to sell her to a foreign owner. If the owner required her to marry his son, then the owner was required to treat her like a daughter-in-law. If the owner marries his slave and later marries another woman, he was required to treat his slave as he previously had. If he violates any of these requirements, then she must be emancipated.

But she would leave without any money or means of supporting herself; she would be free, but abandoned. Exodus 21:8: "If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters. If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish. And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money."

Sexual Activity with an Engaged Female Slave: A man who rapes or engages in consensual sex with a female slave who is engaged to be married to another man must sacrifice an animal in the temple in order to obtain God's forgiveness. The female slave would be whipped. There is apparently no punishment or ritual animal killing required if the female slave were not engaged; men could rape such slaves with impunity.

Leviticus 19:20-22: "And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free. And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, even a ram for a trespass offering. And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the LORD for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him."


Purchasing a Brother as a Slave: If a man is sold into slavery due to poverty and his brother purchases him, then the man must be treated as a hired hand or as a guest of the brother. He would be not be free to leave, but was required to serve until the Jubilee Year, which occurs every 50 years. This would often require him to serve his brother for the rest of his life. Some translations (e.g. Living Bible) refer to"a fellow Israelite" rather than "brother." The fate of a woman being bought by her brother is unclear.

Leviticus 25:39: "And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee; thou shalt not compel him to serve as a bondservant: But as an hired servant, and as a sojourner, he shall be with thee, and shall serve thee unto the year of jubilee: And then shall he depart from thee, both he and his children with him, and shall return unto his own family, and unto the possession of his fathers shall he return."

Punishment for Criminals or Debtors: A person who kidnaps a fellow Israelite and makes him a slave or sells him into slavery would be stoned to death. If a thief is caught and cannot make full restitution, he would be sold as a slave. A debtor who could not pay back creditors might be sold into slavery or have his children sold. Exodus 21:16: "And he that stealeth [kidnaps] a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death."

Deuteronomy 24:7: "If a man be found stealing any of his brethren of the children of Israel, and maketh merchandise of him, or selleth him; then that thief shall die; and thou shalt put evil away from among you."
Exodus 22:3: "...he should make full restitution; if he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft."

II Kings 4:1: "Now there cried a certain woman of the wives of the sons of the prophets unto Elisha, saying, Thy servant my husband is dead; and thou knowest that thy servant did fear the LORD: and the creditor is come to take unto him my two sons to be bondmen."

Enslaving Women Captives: In a foreign war, an Israelite could take any woman as a slave-wife, even if it were against her will. He would put her through what could be regarded as a period of ritual abuse. If he later dislikes her, he can grant her freedom, but cannot sell her to another slave owner. Deuteronomy 21:10-14: "When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;

Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her [i.e. rape her or engage in consensual sex], and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her."

Deuteronomy 20:14" "But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself"

Runaway Slaves: If a slave runs away from his owner and comes to you, then you are not to return the slave to his owner. Rather, you are to let him live in any town in your area. Deuteronomy 23:15-16: "Thou shalt not deliver unto his master the servant which is escaped from his master unto thee: He shall dwell with thee, even among you, in that place which he shall choose in one of thy gates, where it liketh him best: thou shalt not oppress him."

Circumcision of Slaves: A male slave would be required to undergo circumcision. This would be a very painful operation for an adult. It was life-threatening in the days before modern medical techniques. A small percentage of slaves would die from infection caused by the operation. Genesis 17:13: "He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant."
Genesis 17:27: "And all the men of his house, born in the house, and bought with money of the stranger, were circumcised with him."

Priests as Slave Owners: God ordered Moses to wage war against the Midianites, because the latter had attempted to convert the Israelites to their religion. They Israelite soldiers killed every male Midianite, but initially spared the lives of the women and children. Moses was angry at this act of mercy, and in an act of near genocide, ordered that all of the women and children be murdered in cold blood, allowing only 32,000 female virgins to live.

All of the booty, including the surviving girls and virgin women, was then divided into two equal portions: one for the soldiers and the rest for the people of Israel. 0.1% of the slaves from the first half and 2% of the slaves from the second half were considered the Lord's share. i.e. they were to be given to the priests. The priests ended up with 365 female virgins; one for each day of the year. Numbers 31:28-47: "And levy a tribute unto the LORD of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep: Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the LORD.And of the children of Israel's half, thou shalt take one portion of fifty, of the persons, of the beeves, of the asses, and of the flocks, of all manner of beasts, and give them unto the Levites, which keep the charge of the tabernacle of the LORD."

Slaves Owning Slaves: Saul's slave Ziba owned 20 slaves of his own: 2 Samuel 9:10: "...Now Ziba had fifteen sons and twenty servants."

Raping Slaves: Being property, female slaves could be required to engage in sexual intercourse and become pregnant against their will. The perpetrator could be their owner, or anyone that their owner designates:

Genesis 16:1-2: "Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar. And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai."

Genesis 30:3-4: "And she said, Behold my maid Bilhah, go in unto her; and she shall bear upon my knees, that I may also have children by her. And she gave him Bilhah her handmaid to wife: and Jacob went in unto her."
Genesis 30:9-10: "When Leah saw that she had left bearing, she took Zilpah her maid, and gave her Jacob to wife. And Zilpah Leah's maid bare Jacob a son."

Slaves Given the weekly Sabbath off: Slaves were not required to work on Saturday. Exodus 20:10: "But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:"




Reference used:
M.J, Raphall, "The Bible view of slavery," 1861-JAN-15, at: http://www.jewish-history.com/


http://www.religioustolerance.org/sla_bibl1.htm
Click to expand...

as bobby zimmerman used to say,
you've got to serve somebody...

we are all slaves. either to sin, or to Jesus Christ.

why is the New Testament different from the Old?

probably this is a significant turning point:

Luke 4:

16"And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord"

in other words, with the arrival of Jesus, Son of God, the Kingdom of God began to be preached, the Gospel of Salvation to be spread throughout the land, and the Sacrifice and Atonement for us all was prepared so that all mankind might accept or reject God's mercy... and be freed from slavery to sin.
 
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H

hoss

Out to lunch
I was raised a Mormon but haven't been in any church in 20 years so you might want a better reference than me :whistle:

But I will say this:
In light of the positive aspects of the honoring America weekend, could there possibly be a down side? I tried to do a fair and balanced radio program last Saturday, August 28, with Brannon Howse, former Mormon Ed Decker, and apologetics' expert Eric Barger. We raised a few issues, and you can hear them here. I have received some thanks for the honesty and integrity of the two hours, and a few hate e-mails and calls for the position the panel took, which will be explained in the paragraphs below.
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This hardly a "fair and balanced" group -- at least in the case of Ed Decker. I read a book a while ago by Robert and Rosemary Brown called "They Lie in Wait to Deceive Volume IV". IIRC, that book documented beyond doubt that Ed is a documented serial adulterer who was even with another woman when one of his children was being born. After he left the church he became a professional anti-mormon. Personally I do not trust anyone who makes his living bashing the beliefs of others. Spare me his Christian concern for my soul.:kk2:

In any event, when someone questions whether someone else is a Christian it has been my experience that what they are really saying is "you don't believe as me so you are not a Christian".

I'm not a huge Beck fan but in my book you gotta give the guy a whole bunch of credit. I think anything else at this point is horsepucky. He has shaken the political establishment.
 
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Sully

Sully

Inactive
KenGin31 said:
What mormon bible did Sully read. I've read it and I didn't find any of that.
Click to expand...


I've never read a Mormon Bible..that's why I was asking about the beliefs.
I certainly didn't mean to stir up anything. I like and admire Glen Beck and frankly don't give a crap what religion he is.
Again...I did not write the artcle.

Sully
 
Sully

Sully

Inactive
Kengin...I apologize. I didn't mean to snap at you..it's just that sometimes I really wish that I had not posted something because some posts just get out of hand and doesn't accomplish anythig.

Sully
 
Laurane

Laurane

Canadian Loonie
LDS generally use the King James Version of the Bible......the Book of Mormon is another testament of Jesus Christ and is a history of a group of people who came to America in 600 B.C.
 
I

intothatgoodnight

. . .
Sully said:
Kengin...I apologize. I didn't mean to snap at you..it's just that sometimes I really wish that I had not posted something because some posts just get out of hand and doesn't accomplish anythig.

Sully
Click to expand...

Thick skin is important in these parts -- just post your question, and do not worry whom you might offend -- some number of the readers can discern what you are really getting at, and a few might post respectable replies.


intothegoodnight
 
workerbee

workerbee

* Winter is Coming *
hoss said:
I was raised a Mormon but haven't been in any church in 20 years so you might want a better reference than me :whistle:

But I will say this:

This hardly a "fair and balanced" group -- at least in the case of Ed Decker. I read a book a while ago by Robert and Rosemary Brown called "They Lie in Wait to Deceive Volume IV". IIRC, that book documented beyond doubt that Ed is a documented serial adulterer who was even with another woman when one of his children was being born. After he left the church he became a professional anti-mormon. Personally I do not trust anyone who makes his living bashing the beliefs of others. Spare me his Christian concern for my soul.:kk2:

In any event, when someone questions whether someone else is a Christian it has been my experience that what they are really saying is "you don't believe as me so you are not a Christian".

I'm not a huge Beck fan but in my book you gotta give the guy a whole bunch of credit. I think anything else at this point is horsepucky. He has shaken the political establishment.
Click to expand...

Sully said:
I've never read a Mormon Bible..that's why I was asking about the beliefs.
I certainly didn't mean to stir up anything. I like and admire Glen Beck and frankly don't give a crap what religion he is.
Again...I did not write the artcle.

Sully
Click to expand...

hoss, I appreciate the background on the author.
I have a clearer picture of the intent of the article.

And Sully, I appreciated the genuine questions you posed, and did not once think you authored the article, only asking questions posed by the article.

I have of late listed the pros/cons of different denominations including the mormon faith with my husband. My questions have been only to understand, not to dissect their credibility.

Sully, I am glad you posted this thread.
It helps to know others are wondering the same things I am.
 
JF&P

JF&P

Deceased
Ben Sunday said:
People should be able to rally around a public figure without the crap that is swirling around Glenn Beck. Look again...it was about restoring HONOR. It was, in my best estimation, a call to FAITH. In other words, God, as you see and perceive.

Beck is no spiritual icon. A flawed man by his own admission. Just like the rest of us. Albeit from my secular perspective, I would respectfully remind the readers that only one perfect man ever walked this Earth. Just look what the critics did to him.

I applaud the effort to put some fiber in the psyche of the American public.
Click to expand...

Amen Brother Ben

I WAS THERE....on the Mall.

Beck and Palin called for America to return to God and to the Christian values of Faith, Hope and Charity.

I don't care if Beck is a Purple Martian or better yet a Green Venetian....his message is what America needs to hear.

Wasn't there a verse in the old testament where God used an Ass (Donkey) to get someone's (Balaam's) attention?

[Numbers 22:28]

Can we limit God and put Him in a box and say that He didn't use Glenn Beck to speak to America???

===

Of course the Mormons have it all wrong....their theology is (one of) the false prophets Christ warned us about..... (Matt 24)

Additionally, I hear people talking about a Mormon Conspiracy....I have to laugh....I could tell those same people about a real conspiracy that is infinitely more evil and dark and that has an agenda that is preparing the world for the anti-christ and a one world government.

===

Its convenient that all these so called Christians forgot that someone obviously Born Again ( Sarah Palin ) was speaking along side Beck.

Anyway, if Christians are so upset and alarmed about Beck then FALL ON YOUR KNEES AND ASK GOD TO RAISE UP SOMEONE THAT IS PALATABLE TO YOUR THEOLOGY.
 
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workerbee

workerbee

* Winter is Coming *
I have read and re-read this thread, and unless I'm mistaken, most of us agree.

Am I missing something?
 
E

Ellen01

Inactive
Jeff Allen said:
I drove all the way to D.C. from IN with my, appearently, crazy familiy and MISSED THE ANOINTING????

Why in the hell didn't someone tell me?

DOH!

Whatever....blah...blah...blah...:stfu:

You know, it seems anytime anyone tries their best to do good....we are like crabs in a bucket and the rest of the crabs try to grab 'em and pull 'em back in.... Good grief I get tired of all the negativity. Beck is a guy just like me...trying his best.

If Glenn didn't get up and say it...God would probably raise a rock to do it we are so durned deaf and dumb it seems....

J[/QUOTE

Amen Jeff.

I'm so sorry we weren't able to meet up with your family. My DH was at the end of his stamina and my cell phone reception was spotty at best. I tried to send another text to explain what was happening but it wouldn't go through. I'm hoping we can meet sometime and share our experiences of that day. God bless you and yours.
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Fred's Horseradish

Fred's Horseradish

Membership Revoked
Laurane said:
LDS generally use the King James Version of the Bible......the Book of Mormon is another testament of Jesus Christ and is a history of a group of people who came to America in 600 B.C.
Click to expand...

It is interesting that the "Book of Morman" is written in 1611 Englsih. Why wasn't it written in 1825s American English? Was Smith trying to give it an authentic bible ring?

The words of the Bible were written in the Hebrew and Greek of the times.
 
BH

BH

. . . .
Beck is a Mormon, his messages about Honor are basically against the collective and for the individual. Is there anybody in this country that cannot be associated with a collective of some sort.

Although a member of the Mormon collective, to me his message is not the Mormon party line, but his own individual beliefs, ideas and opinions. His promotion of God is from his personal beliefs and that of the founders.

Go back and reread many posts on this thread and replace the word Mormon with GOP and the word God with racist. I'll bet it will sound familiar and be worthy of the MSM.
 
C

conundrum

Inactive
The thing that jumped out at me was the title-

Have We Anointed An Unworthy Shepherd?


Is that how people perceive Beck? As a spiritual shepherd or as a political commentator?

He definitely proclaims loud and clear his Mormon faith and they do have political aspirations of leadership of this country. As does about every other group out there.


Maybe we should look to our Father who art in heaven for spiritual guidance and let what is Caesar's be Caesar's.

We can take a lesson from Germany on what can happen if we don't.



Pray. Jesus always did.

If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14


I don't know anything about Mormons and hope more post here so I can learn what they think.
 
R

ready2go

Veteran Member
Mormon Doctrine teaches: the Constitution is an inspired document; Joseph Smith prophesied that the day would come when it would be in danger and "hang like a thread"; he counseled that all who loved the Constitution should be ready to save it, if necessary. Mormons look forward to a Zion on earth where all who wish can hold all things in common and there shall be no poor among them; this is not, nor has it ever been, mandatory

Ender, you know that the LDS faith is much more than what's in the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Joseph Smith's teachings. This is the difference between Christians and Mormons; Mormons view the church president as a living prophet from the same lineage of Jesus Christ. Mormon doctrine constantly changes or gets slightly tweeked through the prophets 'revelation'. For example: when the church was threatened with losing tax exempt status for their view on blacks, the president of the church had a revelation all of a sudden to change policy - you could go on and on with convenient revelations going all the way back to JS.

The Mormon beliefs that Sully posted are a collection of various statements of revelation that have been handed down by church presidents (prophets) over the years. So, the question is: are these what the church believes or are they not? Most Mormons don't even know.

One more interesting tidbit: right before JS was killed, he compared himself to Mohommed; he was willing to convert by the sword if necesssary.

I suggest reading 'No Man Knows My History' by Fawn Brodie. 'Rough Stone Rolling' is another good biography but it's written by a Mormon so it glosses over some of the uglier sides of Smith's history.
 
Fred's Horseradish

Fred's Horseradish

Membership Revoked
I am sure Smith did not know Hebrew. It would of sounded better if he had written his book in Heb. It also would of been good if the angel had left the "golden plates" as evidence. Otherwise, there is no backing for these claims. The Morman church was right about negros though. A reflection of that time, but correct. A real prophet writes in the language of the time. In the OT, it was Hebrew.
 
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