TECH Don't get a foreign car for TSHTF

etc

etc

Inactive
Had enough of Toyota, Subaru and BMW, the latter one has been the final straw for me.

Possibly one of the most impractical cars you can think of. Not just from the "money pit" aspect but also considering that many of BMW parts are only available at a dealership and are very expensive. Was doing a tune up, broke a vacuum tube, 40 FRNs. Stuff that costs 5 bucks for a GM. Worse, had to wait 2 days for it to get delivered.

The final straw for me was when I couldn't fix in 30 days all the things I needed for the state inspection, due to some little part. 2 dealerships did not have it, an online place told me nobody in the country had it. Had to special-order it from Germany.

If you have an expensive (or even not so expensive) European car like BMW / Audi / Volkswagen / Volvo, you are totally screwed in a TSHTF situation, when the global trade stops. No junk yard to go to and unbolt the sensor or some bracket you need. The junk yard will be full of Toyotas and Fords and whatever but unlikely to find the right year Audi you have.

Japanese are not as bad and 10+ year old Camrys are a dime a dozen but even then I wouldn't trust their supply network.

I think the big 3 make plenty of good vehicles, especially the full sized ones. My car will be a GM pickup with a 6-cyl and a stick shift. Relatively easy to fix, parts shouldn't be crazy expensive like for Bavarian Motor Works.
 
W

Warthog

Tusk Up
You have the GM pickup so you're going to need the parts. I'll stick with my Toyota 4 Runner and won't have to worry about any parts.:lol:
 
ersatzpanther

ersatzpanther

Inactive
If you are worried about post-TSHTF situation, buy pre-computer American iron (before 1980 or so). You can almost fix it with a matchbook and duct tape. I'm not saying use it for a daily driver (although you can do that), just have it in ready reserve like your other preps.

BTW, the acronym "BMW" means "Bring Money With!" I know, I had one.
 
LoupGarou

LoupGarou

Ancient Fuzzball
Actually Pre 1995 VWs are VERY easy and cheap to fix, most of the time even without parts sources. The CIS and CIS/E injection systems are either all mechanical, or in the case of the CIS/E, not electronic in a matter that it will keep you from moving if it does not work. My trucks don't even have an ECM.

The diesels are even easier to work on from that era.

Loup
 
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etc

Inactive
What gets me is that the high purchase price is not a reflection of quality. Look at Volvo VC70, "SUV"-like wagon. Post 2001, lots of very expensive problems. Hit 100K miles and it falls apart, needs to be put on life support.

Check out places like carsurvey.org, edmunds, kbb, msnautos all have user feedback. You read enough of these and get an idea.
 
J

jombo

Inactive
I had a 1985 VW Rabbit for long time. Man that thing was 60% duct tape and tie wire. That was an awesome ride too. Bad thing was it was the gas model. But boy it was a long distance near zero maintenace sucker now. Wish I had it back.

Then a lady gave me a 198? ford pinto man that thing I wired and taped and drove that thing everyday for 6 years or more. And it was still running when I sold it. I put like 120k miles on that thing just replacing duck tape.
 
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intothatgoodnight

. . .
Bear in mind that late-80's through mid-90's Ford Escorts/Mercury Tracers share MANY parts with Mazda 323s and Protege models -- some of the Escort/Tracers had Mazda 1800 cc powertrains in them from the factory, shared brake parts, transmissions, steering racks, A/C hoses, suspensions/struts, etc. Many still on the road, and junk yards have them aplenty.

Got a neighbor that is driving the wheels off of a high-mile 1993 Ford Escort wagon with the Ford 1.9L SOHC motor/Mazda 5-speed stick -- MPG in the early 30s around town, and mid-upper 30s on the road, according to him -- runs perfectly, uses no oil, has over 220K on original motor and trans -- new parts are inexpensive and widely available -- recently helped him rebuild the front suspension, brakes, and entire A/C system -- a bit over $600 in parts, to include a new A/C compressor, condenser, and high-side hoses. Doing a clutch/pressure plate replacement next weekend (he does most of the wrenching, being the youngster that he is, I supply the knowledge, air/hand tools, OBD-I diagnostic computer, torches and side-post lift) -- $110 for the driveline parts -- should be fairly straightforward fix -- will replace the rear main seal while we have it apart. Car is surprisingly easy to work on, as it were.


intothegoodnight
 
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etc

Inactive
1980's VW, or today's Toyota, that's my point. Some simple sensor goes bad and if you are unable to get it, you are dead in the water. *Right now* you are OK. *Tomorrow* you might not be. That's what this forum is about, looking at possibilities and what might come down the road.

I had my Bimmer go down hard because of Camshaft Position Sensor. It wouldn't even start. The part was 100 FRNs, the same price BTW as for Toyota sensors. I had no issues getting it from a BMW dealership but if you are out in the boonies, have to have it shipped to you. One part traveled to me across the sea.

The 1970's domestic cars very simple but they all went to the crusher a long time ago.

So did 1980's cars. Junk yards around here don't stock anything earlier than early 2000's. God help you if you need some part.

This situation has me deeply concerned and I don't see an obvious solution. The end of the internal combustion engine would not really surprise me.Peak Oil and all that.
Oh, and just to be perfectly clear, the elites will always have cars and private jets. It's the Joe Six Pack factory worker who will be out of luck.

Whatever car I get, my #1 concern these days is parts availability in the future and the ability to perform DIY repairs.
Encompassing these concerns leads me to think I will never buy anything but domestics, even being painfully aware of their own shortcomings.

Toyota Camry for example is pretty common with a pretty good dealership / parts network and plenty of cars at the junk yards if you have to resort to that, but even that's not good enough for me. I want the most available, easiest to DIY-fix cars. Something with a stick shift and either a station wagon or a pickup. A sedan is not that practical for me at all.
 
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etc

Inactive
intothatgoodnight said:
Bear in mind that late-80's through mid-90's Ford Escorts/Mercury Tracers share MANY parts with Mazda 323s .....
Click to expand...

I had both a compact Ford and a Mazda, never again for either.

They have serious problems with the automatic transmission. check out places like carsurvey.org or edmunds for feedback.

The tranny in my Mazda went out at 100K miles, overheated, turns out it was made by Ford. Come to find out, they still haven't fixed that problem even in much newer Mazdas.
To give them credit, their 5 speed M/T is very nice, doesn't break down and make the car feel sporty with excellent MPG.

But, both Ford and Mazda have transversely mounted engines which are a nightmare to service by DIY.

I had a V6 Mazda 626, man what a nightmare. Designed with no consideration at all for ease of service.

Had to replace the starter one time. Had to remove the throttle body to get to starter. It was not easily accessible either from the bottom or the top. Took me hours. When I put everything back together, didn't use the right gasket for the throttle body and it run like h3ll since it apparently developed a vacuum leak. For 2 weeks would stall at stoplights and got about 12MPG instead of 30. Until I figured out what the problem was, and took everything back apart. The leak overruled the Mass AirFlor Sensor and confused the computer into injecting the wrong amount of fuel.

There are many uncertainties in life but one thing that's not in that category is that I will never own a Ford or Mazda with FWD transversely mounted engine, they are NOT DIY friendly. Even Fords from the 1980's were pretty bad, like Ford Tempo.

And here in DC area, both have gone to the crusher a long time ago. Good luck getting parts if you need some.

I am probably going to get a 5 year old Chebby truck with the smallest engine I can find and a M/T.

Drove an old one from the 1980's, starter broke, replaced it in half an hour in the auto parts store parking lot, just crawled under it, with no jack at all. The newer ones cannot be much worse -- and the parts supply has to be much better.
 
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LtPiper

Taking cover
More I read this thread the more I wish I still had my old 71 VW. Simple v4 air cooled. Changing the oil was about the only thing ever done to it in 20 years it was in the family.
 
Mr. Mason

Mr. Mason

Inactive
Almost non of the electronics of US made cars are made in the USA... So your doomed with a late model US made car too.
 
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summerthyme

Administrator
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Subarus, in our experience, last forever. I've seen two go over 200,000 miles with teenagers driving them (in one case, I didn't find out they had been racing my Impreza on a dirt track until several years after the fact! LOL!), and both were run WITHOUT OIL at least twice... added oil and they ran for another couple years. (no, I don't suggest this as a good practice... but if you've got teenage boys, buy a junk car for them to run, because sooner or later, they WILL do something stupid)

"High end" cars seem to be major money pits... they're "status symbols" these days, not the finely crafted and engineered pieces of equipment they used to be.

We've had excellent luck with our GMC pickups, but they - like every vehicle brand on earth- have their "weak spots". In the GMC/Chevy pickups, that seems to be brakes. But then, when we were driving Chrysler/Dodge vehicles, it was transmissions... and they're a heck of a lot more expensive than brakes!

Toyota will likely overcome this incredibly idiotic screwup they've mismanaged, and once they figure it out, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one. But not UNTIL they've got it figured out!

Summerthyme
 
Cruiser

Cruiser

Membership Revoked
I went with the best of both worlds, 1971 Toyota Land Cruiser with a Chevy 350 engine. Just about bullet proof as you can get and no electronics to fail in the middle of nowhere. Since it's an FJ40 there is precious little cargo room but I can make up for that with a small trailer. :shr:
 
etc

etc

Inactive
delta38 said:
Two Things left after a nuclear war.

Cockroaches.

Toyota engines.
Click to expand...

I don't think so, the 2.4L engine is now hitting 100K miles in many Camrys and is developing massive problems with head gasket bolts getting stripped, often ruining the engine. Do a search, there is tons of posts like that one.

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=327265




I need some advice. I have a 06 Scion with the 2.4L 2AZFE engine. This car has 64k miles on it. Just out of warranty. It developed an oil leak on the front driver side of the engine. Upon close exam it proved to be coming from between the head and block. Upon disassembly I discover the head bolt at that location is stripped. I now suspect other head bolts will be a problem also. I was disturbed to find that many other 2AZFE engines are having the same problem at the same general mileage range with stripped head bolts. Most of the time it is coolant leak but due to stripped head bolts that have let go and no longer can hold the torque value. I do not have the money for a $6000-$8000 dollar repair as being quoted by Toyota.
I have considered insert thread repairs but have no idea if this will work on this engine. I am looking for advice from others that have had this problem and what you did to correct the problem. I can do the work for the most part but TMEsert kit is expensive and I need to know if it will work and hold before spending the money.
Any help anyone can give will be greatly appreciated.

Here is more:

http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/camry/148454-camry-with-stripped-head-bolts-2/


I am a service center owner and technician of over 40 years in SC. Recently, a 2003 Camry LE w/ 70,000 miles came into my shop with a coolant leak. I consulted this forum and others to find proof of the same instance in the Toyota Camry. I write this in response to some posts I read on this site. This is to be informative for those in similar situations.

To do the exam, we pressurized the cooling system and put the car up on the lift. We immediately noticed coolant leaking from underneath the plastic INT intake Manifold in the rear of the engine. I also noticed a Large piece of foam rubber between the Intake Manifold and the Engine Block and Head. This was blocking our view of the leak. We could only see that the leak was behind the foam piece. The only option to discover the source of this leak was to remove the plastic intake manifold, which I did. After this was removed, it became obvious that coolant had been leaking a minor amount for quite some time due to build up between the cylinder head and block.

The only option left is to remove the head, which requires an exstensive disassembly (R and R cylinder head). After Loosening the bolts in sequence, I notice the head bolts in the back of the engine are loose. From my experience in the field, I can confidently conclude that this only means one of two things: The bolts were left loose at the factory, or the Bolts are stripped. ( I commonly have seen stripped bolts in the Aluminum Cadillac North Star Block discovered through leaking coolant.)

Next, I removed the head and sure enough, one bolt came out with aluminum in the thread...thus indicating a stripped bolt.

MY THEORY: The placement of the (insulation) foam rubber piece between the Intake Manifold and the engine block created an uneven dispersion of heat, creating "metal fatigue" in the aluminum block allowing the headbolt to strip.

If Toyota had out an Aluminum Manifold instead of Plastic, there would have been no need to insulate (w/ foam piece), thus eliminating the probem.

The only solution to this problem is to unforunately replace the engine. The cost to repair it otherwise would be substantial. This is an engine defect and we WILL be seeing more of this.
 
etc

etc

Inactive
summerthyme said:
Subarus, in our experience, last forever.
Click to expand...

I don't think so. The 2.5L V-4 engine they use suffers from a serious head gasket failure, often at 100K miles or less. I think it's the material they used. Very common failure.

The automatic tranny is garbage too, expect it too fail around the same miles. The 5 speed M/T is better but too has issues.

An older 2.2L with M/T might last ... but it too will need its share of wheel bearings, shocks, suspension components, etc.
 
pugdog

pugdog

Membership Revoked
There is NO such thing as a US made vehicle. Anybody who works on them and removed parts knows that.

As for vehicles, I have owned many brands. Most impressed with Toyota product line.
 
LoupGarou

LoupGarou

Ancient Fuzzball
The big issue with vehicles after TSHTF, will not be parts, but oil and mainly fuel. And even if you have a stockpile of a few thousand gallons stored up, think twice before using it. Since by the time the pumps at the neighborhood stations are dry and tankers haven't been seen in weeks, most of the countryside will be quiet. Nobody else will be driving around, and the people that do drive by will be noticed in the vehicle vacuum. Rare "needed" things that are noticed usually become targets by the "have-nots", and in the quiet, a car's engine can be heard for a ways off.

Your car may be in fine condition after TSHTF, but you may not have the fuel to use it. And if you do have the fuel to use it, it may be in your best interest not to.

Loup
 
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summerthyme

Administrator
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Loup... agreed, completely.

The truth is, if TS really DOES HTF, "cars" are going to either be useless, or dangerous- either impossible to keep running long, or if you can, a gigantic target "RESOURCES HERE!".

If it gets to the point where you can't get parts because they were all being made overseas.. well, we won't be getting food, or clothes, or medicines, or a thousand other things required to keep this incredible illusory society running.

We'll be back to bicycles, wheelbarrows.. or for the lucky ones, horses and carts.

(edited to add: I keep the truck gas tank as full as possible at all times, but not so we can run it. It's an addition 30+ gallons for the tiller and chainsaw, if things go South)
summerthyme
 
T

Technomancer

Inactive
Why not change the thread title to "Don't use a late model car for TSHTF".

All the complaints here are about modern sensors and electronics etc.

even late 80/early 90s Toyota Land cruisers were mostly mechanical and indestructible.
A friend took a stock Lexus version of a mid 90s land cruiser on trails and rock climbing that a beefed up, raised, rock sliders etc Jeep couldnt handle.


I dont know how anyone could turn down a mid 80s or older Toyota Land Cruiser for a Mad Max type world. A deisel one would run on anything you can put in the tank and keep liquid.

Land cruisers are very popular in Australia due to their hardiness to my understanding, and their terrain, roads trails etc are much worse than our worst roads in the outskirts.

You keep your ford or GMs, I'll stick with any pre98 land cruiser. Id rather not have to replace parts than worry about finding availible replacements.
 
delta38

delta38

Umbrella Corp.
Etc. The alleged "technician" in your second example is an idiot. How do I know? I've been in the automotive, light, medium, and heavy truck industry since 1989. I currently work for a multi-branch Western Star, Freightliner, International, and Sterling dealership. I formerly worked for Ford and Chrysler.

I have an '05 Corolla S 1.8 with 218,439 miles on it. I have an '09 Tacoma SR5 V6 with 30,122 miles on it, and my company car, an '04 Forerunner with 337,516 miles on it (had to go outside and look, I knew it was over 300k though).

If something would happen to the Corolla or Tacoma, I'd buy another one tomorrow.

And, where do you get the gall to refute Summerthme's PERSONAL experience? Essentially calling BS on Summerthyme.

Wow.
 
T

Technomancer

Inactive
I have to add one question about this... even the insanely durable engines still burn up and use a lil oil.... You can create vegetable oil fuels, fats etc, but is there anything you can do to replace engine/transmission fluids? Or would you just be scavenging and draining off the fluids from abandoned or trashed vehicles all around?
 
fruit loop

fruit loop

Inactive
I have a Toyota Corolla and a Ford Explorer. I love both of them. The Explorer is for hauling the regiment and the tents around; the Corolla is for everyday use.

I love my Toyota and would NEVER buy an American-made sedan. I might consider a Nissan or a Mazda, but American? No frickin' way.
 
etc

etc

Inactive
Technomancer said:
Why not change the thread title to "Don't use a late model car for TSHTF".
Click to expand...

That would be almost fine -- except that in my area, anything older than 10 years seems to get sent to the crusher. People are snobs, a 2001 model is "old car".

So if you need something for a 1987 model, you almost certainly won't find it in a local junk yard. Nobody drives them, there is no demand and they recycle them.
 
etc

etc

Inactive
delta38 said:
Etc. The alleged "technician" in your second example is an idiot.

And, where do you get the gall to refute Summerthme's PERSONAL experience? Essentially calling BS on Summerthyme.

Wow.
Click to expand...

The olde ad hominem attack - cannot attack the substance of the argument, so we shall attack the person and his credibility. Pitiful.

Oh, and God forbid I disagree with someone here (In part) due to my own personal experience. People might have identical experiences and come to different conclusions. Imagine that.
 
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intothatgoodnight

. . .
etc said:
The end of the internal combustion engine would not really surprise me.Peak Oil and all that.

Oh, and just to be perfectly clear, the elites will always have cars and private jets. It's the Joe Six Pack factory worker who will be out of luck.
Click to expand...

Not a problem for Joe Sixpack, as it were -- gasoline powered cars can be made to run on alcohol -- some are more complicated conversions than others -- was just mapping such a project out the other day, in discussion with a couple of others, as we analyzed what it would take to get a mid-90's GM truck to run on dual fuels -- gas and alcohol -- to include reprogramming the computer, bumping up the throttle-body injection volume, etc.

Alcohol can be made from a WIDE variety of readily available and prolific feed-stocks -- corn is just ONE such feedstock, but certainly not the only one.


intothegoodnight
 
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intothatgoodnight

. . .
etc said:
That would be almost fine -- except that in my area, anything older than 10 years seems to get sent to the crusher. People are snobs, a 2001 model is "old car".

So if you need something for a 1987 model, you almost certainly won't find it in a local junk yard. Nobody drives them, there is no demand and they recycle them.
Click to expand...

You are not perusing the correct D.C. area junkyards -- not ALL of them have crushed their cars.

I stand by my statements -- junkyard parts are still available of some 70's, some 80's and a decent selection of 90's cars -- just got to know where to shop.

Your comments on the Mazda/Ford cross-mounted 4 cylinder being a nightmare to work on -- you obviously do not have enough experience with cars that are TRULY difficult to work upon, or you would have never made such a statement -- I stand by my comments of the ease by which late 80's through mid-late 90's Ford Escort and Mazda 3 series cars can be serviced -- if I can get my hands into the timing cover areas, or exhaust or intake side of the motor, then I know by experience that such a powertrain will be relatively easy to service.

Must add another vote for the Subies -- true, the 2.5 motor had a problem with head gasket failures, since resolved as far as I know, but was not widespread -- and, I know of several Subarus that have run WELL in excess of 200K miles on original, untouched (except for routine servicing) powertrains. The Subie 4-speed automatics are acceptably tough, when serviced properly, and not off-roaded, used for towing, or abused.


intothegoodnight
 
E

ejagno

Veteran Member
Sorry, but I'll stick with my NON RECALLED Toyota 4-Runner as well. You can't give me a Ford or a GMC. I've had serious issues with both and will not have them in my parking spot ever.
 
S

Sojourner

Senior Member
Exactly one year ago I rolled down a rear window in my GM SUV and, lo and behold, it wouldn't roll back up. Forgive me but I don't know the names of the parts. Took it in to the shop and a day later they called to say that NO ONE in the western US had the part. Then they called Detroit and they had one -- ONE part. That was overnighted to us and I got my car back three days later. It cost big bucks$$$.

That was when I became aware how iffy the GM supply chain was, and this happened a year ago. The guys at the shop said they never would recommend GM cars. Never. There have been too many times in their experience that they can't depend on Detroit.
 
R

Rucus Sunday

Veteran Member
The big issue with vehicles after TSHTF, will not be parts, but oil and mainly fuel. And even if you have a stockpile of a few thousand gallons stored up, think twice before using it. Since by the time the pumps at the neighborhood stations are dry and tankers haven't been seen in weeks, most of the countryside will be quiet. Nobody else will be driving around, and the people that do drive by will be noticed in the vehicle vacuum. Rare "needed" things that are noticed usually become targets by the "have-nots", and in the quiet, a car's engine can be heard for a ways off.

Your car may be in fine condition after TSHTF, but you may not have the fuel to use it. And if you do have the fuel to use it, it may be in your best interest not to.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Same goes for most us with all our other preps. At best they buy time to figure out the next step. But after a year, then what? No gas or oil. Canned food is gone. A suburban garden is good until the neighbors are hungry. Flashlights are great until the batteries are gone. IMO, the future is in like-minded groups. I look at the early church (Acts 1-12) as an example.
 
T

Technomancer

Inactive
Fuel can be made on your own to run a desiel, you can use OLD technology to extract oils from certain plants, and you might even be able to render fat to produce something that would just need a lil doping.

It will always be useful to be able to at least run a tractor at times, or have enough for an occasional short trip in a vehicle for trade or such.

If things go 3rd world, the family has plenty of farmland left to fallow and renew itself, and unless I have some small village under me/feudalism style, I would devote a couple of acres, not to food, but just to create fuel producing plants, since even being able to run one small tractor for just a few hours a month can easily replace many peoples worth of manual labor or animals we might not be able to get.

I really though have no current idea as to how to naturally create lube oils that have a high enough ignition point to act as motor oil, and low enough viscosity to serve as hydrolic fluids.

If it becomes obvious and theres enough time, hopefully I can make friends with someone who has farmable land and such in an area that has oil even if it cant produce much without modern pumping, and requires old school cracking by temperature.

ETA, Yeah, I forgot Wood Gas for gasoline engines.
 
kytom

kytom

escapee from reality
etc said:
Had enough of Toyota, Subaru and BMW, the latter one has been the final straw for me.

Possibly one of the most impractical cars you can think of. Not just from the "money pit" aspect but also considering that many of BMW parts are only available at a dealership and are very expensive. Was doing a tune up, broke a vacuum tube, 40 FRNs. Stuff that costs 5 bucks for a GM. Worse, had to wait 2 days for it to get delivered.

The final straw for me was when I couldn't fix in 30 days all the things I needed for the state inspection, due to some little part. 2 dealerships did not have it, an online place told me nobody in the country had it. Had to special-order it from Germany.

If you have an expensive (or even not so expensive) European car like BMW / Audi / Volkswagen / Volvo, you are totally screwed in a TSHTF situation, when the global trade stops. No junk yard to go to and unbolt the sensor or some bracket you need. The junk yard will be full of Toyotas and Fords and whatever but unlikely to find the right year Audi you have.

Japanese are not as bad and 10+ year old Camrys are a dime a dozen but even then I wouldn't trust their supply network.

I think the big 3 make plenty of good vehicles, especially the full sized ones. My car will be a GM pickup with a 6-cyl and a stick shift. Relatively easy to fix, parts shouldn't be crazy expensive like for Bavarian Motor Works.
Click to expand...
mercedes, bmw, audi, porsche. if youre complaining about how much it cost to fix one of these you cant afford it. just like the saying goes. if you ask how much a yacht costs you cant afford it!!
 
W

Warthog

Tusk Up
Got a 97 Toyota 4 Runner with 169,000 still has original water pump, alternator, and timing belt. Timing belt was supposed to be changed at 100,000 according to the factory! The truck runs so good, I'm scared to let anyone tear into it.:lol:
 
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summerthyme

Administrator
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Warthog... better check QUICK to be sure you don't have an "interference engine" on that 4-Runner. Because if it is, and the timing belt goes- the engine is GONE.

Summerthyme
 
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