CRIME Threats linked to health votes prompt security

Threats linked to health votes prompt security


At least 10 Dems receive threats; gas line cut at Perriello brother's home

msnbc.com news services
updated 15 minutes ago

At least 10 House Democrats are receiving access to increased security after receiving threats linked to their votes on the health care overhaul bill signed into law on Tuesday.

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer said at a Capitol Hill press conference that he is concerned by a rash of at least four incidents of vandalism targeting lawmakers who voted to approve the legislation, which did not receive any Republican votes.

Concern about possible violence escalated Wednesday after a severed gas line at the home of a Democratic lawmaker's brother was discovered.

The slashed gas line leading to a propane tank at the home of Bo Perriello was found Tuesday, one day after Tea Party activists posted the address online and suggested that opponents of the reform bill should "express their thanks" to Rep. Tom Perriello, D-Va.

The FBI is working with local officials to investigate the incident.

Conservative activists in Virginia posted the home address of Perriello's older brother — believing it to be the congressman's address — when suggesting in Web postings that those who disagreed with the Democratic lawmaker's vote should "drop by" to make their opposition clear.

The Charlottesville Daily Progress reported that one of the two activists who posted the address condemned the action and said he is "almost speechless."

Rep. Tom Perriello, who faces a tough re-election in November, voted to approve the Senate's version of the health care bill Sunday. He voted for an earlier version of the health overhaul and supported Democrats' economic stimulus package and the House's cap-and-trade legislation earlier this year.

"My number one priority right now is ensuring the safety of my brother's family," Perriello said in a statement Wednesday. The Virginia freshman lawmaker called upon leaders in both parties "to state unequivocally tonight that it is never OK to harm or threaten elected officials and their families with anything more than political retribution."

Republican lawmakers also condemned the threats.

"That is reprehensible behavior," said Rep. Eric Cantor, R-Va. "We are a free country, but no one should be engaging in that kind of uncivil behavior," he added.

Rep. Louise Slaughter, D-N.Y., whose Niagra Falls office was vandalized Friday, said that Democratic members are concerned about violence suggested by opponents of the health reform. "Basically shape up, or we're going to have a civil war," she said.

NBC's Shawna Thomas contributed to this report.
© 2010 msnbc.com


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36020850/ns/politics-capitol_hill/

So, they went from broken glass at the offices of a few congressional members to an assumption that a "slashed" propane gas line was an obvious act of attempted sabotage on a family member of a member of congress because their address was posted?

Hey, how about THIS?

Rep. Louise Slaughter, D-N.Y., whose Niagra Falls office was vandalized Friday, said that Democratic members are concerned about violence suggested by opponents of the health reform. "Basically shape up, or we're going to have a civil war," she said.

Well THANK YOU Captain Obvious!

The absolute arrogance of that b*tch.

IOW,

"F OFF you 2/3rds of the nation who didn't want this. STFU and fall in line OR ELSE!"

People need to realize they not only WANT a civil war, they are preparing for it. They WANT another revolution... a communist one.

Mike

"That is reprehensible behavior," said Rep. Eric Cantor, R-Va. "We are a free country, but no one should be engaging in that kind of uncivil behavior," he added.

Click to expand...

We WERE a free country, now you get taxed just for being alive.

Maybe finally the Dems are getting the message...

From Politico:

Steny Hoyer: Members are at risk

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer wants Republicans to speak out against violence aimed at Democratic colleagues.

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer is warning that some of his Democratic colleagues are being threatened with violence when they go back to their districts — and he wants Republicans to stand up and condemn the threats.

The Maryland Democrat said more than 10 House Democrats have reported incidents of threats or other forms of harassment about their support of the highly divisive health insurance overhaul vote. Hoyer emphasized that he didn’t have a specific number of threats and that was just an estimate.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation, Capitol Police and sergeant at arms briefed Democrats behind closed doors today about the incidents of violence — the most high profile of which have been toward Democratic Reps. Tom Periello of Virginia, Steve Driehaus of Ohio and Louise Slaughter of New York.

Hoyer hinted that Republicans should do more to condemn these threats of violence.

“I would hope that we would join together jointly and make it very clear that none of us condone this kind of activity,” Hoyer told reporters. “And when we see it, we speak out strongly in opposition to it. And I would hope that we would do that going forward.”

Rep. Jim Clyburn (D-S.C.), the majority whip, said Democrats and Republicans should continue to speak out on these threats. “Silence gives consent,” Clyburn said.

But Minority Leader John Boehner already has condemned threats of violence — and sought to explain why people are so angry.

“I know many Americans are angry over this health care bill, and that Washington Democrats just aren’t listening,” Boehner said. “But, as I’ve said, violence and threats are unacceptable. That’s not the American way. We need to take that anger and channel it into positive change. Call your congressman, go out and register people to vote, go volunteer on a political campaign, make your voice heard — but let's do it the right way."

A Republican aide also pointed out that over the years Republican members of Congress received their fair share of death threats during volatile times. Newt Gingrich after the 1994 Republican revolution and the late Henry Hyde during the Clinton impeachment in 1998 both received numerous death threats. And just last month, Sen. Jim Bunning (R-Ky.) received death threats after his filibuster of unemployment benefits, according to a report in Roll Call.

Hoyer said steps are being taken to protect members of Congress. Most lawmakers do not have formal security protection, but if any member feels threatened, they will be getting “attention from the proper authorities.”

On Wednesday, the FBI began a preliminary investigation into fuel lines cut at the Virginia home of Perriello’s brother, whose address was posted online — the poster thought it was the lawmaker’s address.

Driehaus said his address was posted Wednesday on a right-leaning blog.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/34953.html#ixzz0j8079llg

What a bunch of cry babies someone get them their pacifiers, please!!!

Why do these idiots expect that threats come ONLY from Republicans?

Mike

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer is warning that some of his Democratic colleagues are being threatened with violence when they go back to their districts — and he wants Republicans to stand up and condemn the threats.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't say a word.

medic38572 said:

I wouldn't say a word.

Click to expand...

The Dem crybabies need to receive the same treatment the Repubs got during the HealthCare fiasco this past weekend.
http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/03...nd-use-alinsky-tactics-to-silence-opposition/

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=600&sid=1919248

Gas Line Severed At Home Of Virginia Lawmaker's Brother

March 24, 2010 - 4:18pm

By DENA POTTER

Associated Press Writer

RICHMOND, Va. - Someone cut the line on a propane tank at the home of a congressman's brother after his address was posted online by tea party activists angry about passage of the federal health care reform bill, the lawmaker's office said Wednesday. A threatening letter was also sent to the house.

U.S. Rep. Tom Perriello's office said a line to the small propane tank used for a gas grill was cut inside the screened-in porch at his brother's Charlottesville home on Tuesday. Periello's office said the letter was threatening but wouldn't elaborate on what it said.

Tea party activists had posted the brother's address online thinking it was the congressman's home, telling opponents to drop by and "express their thanks" for the Democrat's vote in favor of the sweeping health care reform.

"While it is too early to say anything definitive regarding political motivations behind this act, it's never too early for political leaders to condemn threats of violence, particularly as threats to other members of Congress and their children escalate," Perriello said in a statement Wednesday afternoon.

Albemarle County spokeswoman Lee Catlin said the county fire marshal's office was assisting the Federal Bureau of Investigation with the case. She said investigators did not believe the family was in danger. The lawmaker's brother, Bo Perriello, and his wife have four small children.

"It did not involve what investigators consider an immediate threat to the occupants of the residence, but we are taking the incident very seriously and conducting a vigorous investigation," Catlin said.

Messages left for the FBI and Bo Perriello were not immediately returned.

The VA 6th District Tea Party Watchdogs blog posted the address and urged opponents of the health care overhaul to go talk to Periello, but their page wasn't accessible Wednesday.

Nigel Coleman, chairman of the Danville Tea Party, said he re-posted the comment including the address Monday on his Facebook page. The post urged opponents to go to Perriello's house and talk to him "face-to-face" about the vote, saying, "Just in case any of his friends and neighbors want to drop by and say hi and express their thanks regarding his vote for health care."

Coleman said he took the post down the next day when he found out it was not the congressman's address. He said he never expected anyone to do anything other than try to talk to Perriello, a first-term Democrat who won election by just 745 votes in 2008.

"We didn't tell anybody to do anything like that. We've never been associated with any violence or any vandalism," he said. "We're definitely sorry that we posted the incorrect address. We don't have any type of complaint with Bo Perriello."

Coleman's group last year planned to burn likenesses of Perriello and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi at a rally, but backed off when opponents accused them of promoting violence. The group also has had tense showdowns with the congressman during health care rallies and at gatherings outside his office.

Coleman accused Perriello of spreading the story in order to discredit the activists.

"We don't know exactly who did this or why or what happened," he said.

He said the group would not post the congressman's address if it became available.


Copyright 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

The votes of these slim balls will cause the premature deaths of tens-of-thousands of Americans. Their votes have put the government as arbiter of the health of each and every American. Their votes have marginalized our founding documents' guarantee "of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". And their votes have placed upon each American a tax for merely being alive.

They deserve the just consequences of their actions. And I shall shed no tear if these slim balls reap such consequences.

You stick your finger into someones eye and don't expect that someone will get testy over it?

I am NO lawyer, but I would think a case for self defense could be made of this HC bill that has been singed by "o"

lw

I hope every single one of them is scared stiff.

I hope that when a squirrel runs across their roof... they wonder if it might be... someone who is pissed off and desperate.

I hope they worry about their spouses, their kids, their parents. I hope they start wondering about whether or not someone knows where they live, the route they take to school or work, where they shop for groceries.

I hope they know that Obama has all the SS protection HE and HIS family need (well, they think he does, anyway)... and their names and faces are out there with one heck of a lot less cover.

I hope they never get a decent night's sleep again- if they can sleep through the fact that they murdered the once-shining beacon of freedom, I hope they can't sleep for worrying about their own sorry, worthless hides.

Some people have LONG memories.

And when this monstrosity of a bill starts directly hurting citizens... when their elderly parent is suddenly denied the chance to live pain free for another few years, when their handicapped child is deemed "unqualified" for heart surgery, when they're told dialysis is "too expensive" once they're past 60...

They're going to remember who did it. And they're not going to have anything left to lose if they take action.

Actions have consequences- some of these scumbag politicos are about to learn that.

Summerthyme

Well said, Summer.

I've always tried to carefully teach my children their are consequence to their actions. When the government adamantly refuses to listen to the will of the people, it shouldn't be a surprise that people have become this angry. What were they expecting- hugs and kisses? They knew about the anger at the town hall meetings. They are purposely trying to start extreme civil disobedience/ war so they can declare martial law and haul us all off to the gulags, er, FEMA camps. Our best weapon is always prayer. Let God make their lives a living nightmare by His own hand in His own divine way. Remember the Israelite under Pharaoh. God protected His own while personally dealing with Pharoah. And I, too, pray they spend every minute living in absolute fear, but of our living God more than the people.

I won't find anyone guilty of fighting back against these domestic enemies of the constitution and I know alot of others won't either. Not that it matters. I'm sure they'll handpick the jurors for these trials.

This is the lead story for CBS news, which is on right now.

pixmo said:

This is the lead story for CBS news, which is on right now.

Click to expand...

Hey Pix'

Thumbnail it for us please? I don't have cable or sat. And to far away for pick up by antenna.

lw

I'm a Democrat and disappointed in the behavior of some protestors but I have to ask: What did they expect? They disenfranchised way too many voters. They have pissed off a majority of conservative voters in general regardless of party affiliation or lack thereof. Voters are not so stupid that they don't know when the government says; "We are here are to help you." and "This program is for the benefit of the country." it is going cost us out the yahzoo.

They are rich what do they care? They get a warm liberal fuzzy from having done something to help the poor. Don't they realize that the shrinking middle class they have saddled with paying for their "good intentions" are quickly becoming poor? Haven't they seen the unemployment figures? Can't they see the number of jobs fleeing the country because of their "good intentions" with NAFTA? Don't they see the reports of tent cities and the number of homeless? Have they missed the reports of nationwide foreclosures? It does not take a genius to know that truly desperate people do desperate, if stupid things. Do they truly believe we are not in an economic depression and everything is just fine? MHO they need to talk with their constituents outside the beltway and stop reading their own press.

Again what did they expect? Why are they surprised?

This country was founded by and with violence.
We've used it time and time again when were threatened.
It's what we do, and it works very, very well.

Its time to pay the piper.

"That is reprehensible behavior," said Rep. Eric Cantor, R-Va. "We are a free country, but no one should be engaging in that kind of uncivil behavior," he added.

As appose to what???

All those who voted for this bill slashing our throats by taking away our freedom, taking away our children and predecessors future, taxing us out of existence, taking away our medical coverage thus our very life, valuing illegals over citizens, allowing citizens to be arrested as a terrorist with out hapeas corpus, and valuing jihad terrorists over U.S. citizens etc....

But its ok for these a$$holes to be engaged in these reprehensible behavior....

Funny how the left didn't mind violence whenever they were participating? But now that the right is ready to do it, violence is suddenly unacceptable.


Rage

I got news for ya Slaughter,Schumer and the rest of you treasonous Bastards.The people in this Country are so pissed that this is just the beginning of your troubles.I think people will start doing far worse things than throwing bricks at your windows.Wait until they try to make 20 million Mexicans American citizens (and you know they are gonna try soon),I think thats when the civil war will start.

The really sad thing is, if they don't elicit the violence they want from us, they'll get it from the SEIU and blame us. I'm also sure they have something big orchestrated and waiting in the wings. We've already been called terrorists months ago so this is no surprise. They want to get rid of us. Conservative Christians have no place in their NWO.

I think they need to look closer to home. The type of sniping that is going on now has been the modus operandi of the far left for many years--not of the far right or middle right or conservative. I'd look for purple shirts under those 'tea-party' hats.

mt4design said:

Why do these idiots expect that threats come ONLY from Republicans?

Mike

Click to expand...

Gee how come it was okay for some of these old 60's radicals to kidnap rich people's kids, blow up police stations, tear downtown Chicago apart, but now they THEY are 'the man', it isn't ok?

pops88 said:

The really sad thing is, if they don't elicit the violence they want from us, they'll get it from the SEIU and blame us. I'm also sure they have something big orchestrated and waiting in the wings. We've already been called terrorists months ago so this is no surprise. They want to get rid of us. Conservative Christians have no place in their NWO.

Click to expand...

Violence is EXACTLY what they are hoping for. If anyone watched Beck's program today [a rarity for me since I'm usually at work], he put forth something that made perfect sense.

A lot of people that influence Barack 0bama had root in the 60's radical movement. They learned under LBJ, then Nixon, that violence did not work. America was [still is] basically a center right nation, and the violence of the 60's was not condoned. The radicals lost. But they learned well.

Rather than disappear into the woodwork, they became 'The Man'. Problem is, that leaves a hole in the scheme of things. There is always those in power at the top, in the middle is most Americans, and at the bottom are the extremists or radicals.

Now that the radicals are 'the man', who do you think the extremists will be?

Tyranny is why the founding fathers crafted the constitution.

Obama has ran roughshod on the 10th amendment.

Tyranny is what they are doing now.

If the sheep finally wake up, there will be blood and that's what the founding fathers planned for.

After 236 years our country is failing.

summerthyme said:

I hope every single one of them is scared stiff.

I hope that when a squirrel runs across their roof... they wonder if it might be... someone who is pissed off and desperate.

I hope they worry about their spouses, their kids, their parents. I hope they start wondering about whether or not someone knows where they live, the route they take to school or work, where they shop for groceries.

I hope they know that Obama has all the SS protection HE and HIS family need (well, they think he does, anyway)... and their names and faces are out there with one heck of a lot less cover.

I hope they never get a decent night's sleep again- if they can sleep through the fact that they murdered the once-shining beacon of freedom, I hope they can't sleep for worrying about their own sorry, worthless hides.

Some people have LONG memories.

And when this monstrosity of a bill starts directly hurting citizens... when their elderly parent is suddenly denied the chance to live pain free for another few years, when their handicapped child is deemed "unqualified" for heart surgery, when they're told dialysis is "too expensive" once they're past 60...

They're going to remember who did it. And they're not going to have anything left to lose if they take action.

Actions have consequences- some of these scumbag politicos are about to learn that.

Summerthyme

Click to expand...

+1,000!!!!!!!!!

summerthyme said:

And when this monstrosity of a bill starts directly hurting citizens... when their elderly parent is suddenly denied the chance to live pain free for another few years, when their handicapped child is deemed "unqualified" for heart surgery, when they're told dialysis is "too expensive" once they're past 60...


Summerthyme

Click to expand...

I too am opposed to this bill, strictly from a standpoint of forcing people to buy something that they do not want and can not afford. As I mentioned in another post, I have decided to refuse, and to encourage all in my family to refuse, any health care that we can not afford out of pocket.

What I can not understand, and I hope someone can help me, is the above statement. This stuff has all been going on for decades. Why the concern that it is going to start now? It is already here and has been for forever.

My husband (a disabled vet) has been denied the chance to live pain free for the last 9 years. We have begged and pleaded with every elected official we have been able to find to please change the laws that limit the amount of narcotic pain meds that can legally be perscribed so that he can live with his injuries and still be able to get out of bed. He has developed a resistance to the meds. When he takes more than his perscribed amount, he can get up, walk around and function in our family. When he takes the perscribed amount, he can not stand or sit for more than 20 minutes. Solution? He takes more than the amount some of the time, if there is something important he does not want to miss, like our sons graduations, etc., and lays in bed in agony and withdrawl the rest of the time. Fine thank you to one of our Vets who was willing to give up his life for his country, huh?? The denial of a life for him was just as bad under the old system as it is likely to be under this one. Why did no one care then?

My sister died of a heart condition, the result of a mis-diagnosed viral infection. She was 49 years old. She had no health insurance. She did not "qualify" for a transplant, though she lived long enough to see others who were diagnosed and put on the list after her diagnosis get new hearts and new lives. We understood that she did not have enough money to live. We accepted it, as did she. She died. This had nothing to do with the new bill, it happened under Republican rule. No one cared then, when my parents handicapped child was denied heart surgey due to being poor (but not poor enough). Again, under Republican rule.

I can not count the number of fund raisers I have been to in the last 25 years where some family is trying to raise money for the cancer treatment needed to save their childs life. Most of them have died with no treatment, or insufficient treatment due to not enough funds. Sounds like the new bill is not that different from the current system.

Summerthyme, you have told many stories about your family, and the injuries and illnesses you have had to deal with on your own due to no insurance, including the recent injury to your husbands knee. (By the way, I hope he is doing better!!) How is your family not getting treatment due to your inability to afford treatment any different from people not getting treatment under the new plan?

Seems like same old, same old to me, at least in terms of people not getting the medical care that they need. Those of us without financial means have been denied necessary and life saving treatment for millenia. Why has THAT always been ok, and what is so different now? Other than, it might be some different folks who are denied what many have us have never had hope of getting anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I hate the bill and will not be forced to buy insurance that I can not afford, but the only difference I can see is purly financial. As far as denial of medical care, children and adults have died due to no money for treatment for millenia.

Is it just that it might be you now, vs. those of us who you never really counted as worthy of medical care anyway?? (rhetorical question, not directed to anyone in particular!)

Anyone who thinks that any of the scenarios described by Summerthyme have not been the status quo for all of history to begin with has not been paying attention. Kind of different when it is you or your child, huh?

Greenspode... the main difference between now and the (near) future under this bill is going to be simple:

People are going to see- in black and white- how little their lives are valued, EVEN IF THEY CAN PAY. Because I can pretty well guarantee that will be part of this, whether implicit or explicit... people who aren't considered to have enough "value" as producers will be denied ALL care to extend life.

The exceptions will be certain "politically valuable" groups (for a time... but they'll become expendable as well), and those with enough money to go abroad for care.

It's the completely uneven playing field here which is going to enrage people. Plus the massive change in the rules- ie: Grandma HAS been able to get stents, heart bypass operations, hip replacements, etc, regardless of her future "worth" or age, paid for by Medicare. (in fact, I've heard and known of cases where they did knee replacements or other extremely painful and expensive surgery on people who had dementia so bad they weren't able to participate in any followup therapy- hence, even with new knees, they weren't ever out of bed or a wheelchair anyway- what sense is THAT?)

As far as the rest... Medicaid has been pretty darned generous in NY state. I can't speak to other states, but in NY, if you are indigent and need medical care, you get it.

It can take persistence... and it does require people to be indigent. If you have property, you've got a problem. But that in itself is a problem- people who basically say "well, I'll be damned if I'll lose everything to save my life". Huh? That's certainly their choice to make, but if they do make it, don't blame anyone else.

As far as the OTHER issues- stupid laws which make doctors afraid to prescribe adequate pain relief, etc... those are separate issues, but also part of the same problem- the idea that The State can tell US what we're allowed to do with our bodies- what we can ingest, etc. However, I note that few had any real problem with "The War on (some) Drugs" when they thought it was just for "those evil/stupid stoners and junkies". Only when they found it restricted THEIR access to adequate pain meds did it suddenly become relevant and bad.

Personally, if I had a loved one in constant pain, I'd find some seeds from a certain weed (most high school kids can tell you where to get them) and grow the stuff, the law be damned. But then, I've never agreed with the government telling me what I can and can't do.

Summerthyme

What does Bill Ayers think???

Got ya Summerthyme! Makes sense, but then you always do!

Course, for many people, they could sell everything they own and it will only pay for a couple of weeks treatment. My sister owned a trailer on an 1/8 of an acre. Sold it for 28,000 and all her belongings for another 3,000. That still left her about 900,000 short for her transplant. What actually disqualified her was that she had had a documented suicide attempt while under the influence of alcohol when she was 20 years old. Medicaid will not pay for a transplant if the receiver has a history of alcohol abuse or suicide, even if they are 29 years removed from the event and have been clean ever since. She did not have any money or insurance because she only worked part time due to a severly developmentally disabled son that she was the primary care giver for. I am his current legal guardian. Anyway, with money she would have gotten her transplant, but none of us had that kind of money. So, she died.

Just saying, lots of people die every year because they don't have the money or the insurance for treatment. Medicaid does not cover everyone for everything they need. People do die. Usually they are too poor to pay, but too "rich" to qualify for "free" treatment, or have insurance, just not enough. It does happen, more often than people realize! I don't expect everyone, or anyone for that matter, to receive medical care they can not pay for. Just saying, I don't see much difference in the potential denial of treatment vs. what I have seen already.

Time will tell I guess!

As to the herbal remedy for pain, etc....we are very well versed in herbal treatment! Mostly to counteract the digestive issues that go along with large dosages of narcotic pain meds. Does not help the pain so much as relax muscle tension caused by so much pain and ease the constant nausea.

Part of our TEOTWAWKI preps is planning a flower garden that will allow us to reproduce some pain meds. Got the flowers, they are very pretty! Just working to figure out the best way to use them when the time comes. The thought has occured to me that it might also be a supplement to our current course of action, but am not confidant in our ability to get that figured out correctly.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8011475

Here is a lovely threatening post that I found on Timebomb2000

Guess who?

Spooky little critturs, ain't they?

ROTFLMAO...

Summerthyme

Don't expect a referee at a street fight.


Read and watch all of it, listen more than you speak, watch more than you act.

pops88 said:

I've always tried to carefully teach my children their are consequence to their actions. When the government adamantly refuses to listen to the will of the people, it shouldn't be a surprise that people have become this angry. What were they expecting- hugs and kisses? They knew about the anger at the town hall meetings. They are purposely trying to start extreme civil disobedience/ war so they can declare martial law and haul us all off to the gulags, er, FEMA camps. Our best weapon is always prayer. Let God make their lives a living nightmare by His own hand in His own divine way. Remember the Israelite under Pharaoh. God protected His own while personally dealing with Pharoah. And I, too, pray they spend every minute living in absolute fear, but of our living God more than the people.

Click to expand...

You are absolutely right!

conundrum said:

Don't expect a referee at a street fight.


Read and watch all of it, listen more than you speak, watch more than you act.

Click to expand...

So are you.

American Rage said:

Funny how the left didn't mind violence whenever they were participating? But now that the right is ready to do it, violence is suddenly unacceptable.


Rage

Click to expand...

That's because we have a better aim and know how to use scopes!




Hehehehehe..... I said that to make them nervous, but hell, it's true!

summerthyme said:

Greenspode... the main difference between now and the (near) future under this bill is going to be simple:

People are going to see- in black and white- how little their lives are valued, EVEN IF THEY CAN PAY. Because I can pretty well guarantee that will be part of this, whether implicit or explicit... people who aren't considered to have enough "value" as producers will be denied ALL care to extend life.

The exceptions will be certain "politically valuable" groups (for a time... but they'll become expendable as well), and those with enough money to go abroad for care.

It's the completely uneven playing field here which is going to enrage people. Plus the massive change in the rules- ie: Grandma HAS been able to get stents, heart bypass operations, hip replacements, etc, regardless of her future "worth" or age, paid for by Medicare. (in fact, I've heard and known of cases where they did knee replacements or other extremely painful and expensive surgery on people who had dementia so bad they weren't able to participate in any followup therapy- hence, even with new knees, they weren't ever out of bed or a wheelchair anyway- what sense is THAT?)

As far as the rest... Medicaid has been pretty darned generous in NY state. I can't speak to other states, but in NY, if you are indigent and need medical care, you get it.

It can take persistence... and it does require people to be indigent. If you have property, you've got a problem. But that in itself is a problem- people who basically say "well, I'll be damned if I'll lose everything to save my life". Huh? That's certainly their choice to make, but if they do make it, don't blame anyone else.

As far as the OTHER issues- stupid laws which make doctors afraid to prescribe adequate pain relief, etc... those are separate issues, but also part of the same problem- the idea that The State can tell US what we're allowed to do with our bodies- what we can ingest, etc. However, I note that few had any real problem with "The War on (some) Drugs" when they thought it was just for "those evil/stupid stoners and junkies". Only when they found it restricted THEIR access to adequate pain meds did it suddenly become relevant and bad.

Personally, if I had a loved one in constant pain, I'd find some seeds from a certain weed (most high school kids can tell you where to get them) and grow the stuff, the law be damned. But then, I've never agreed with the government telling me what I can and can't do.

Summerthyme

Click to expand...

Thank you, ST, well said!!!

I've struggled and struggled with previous posts of Greenspode and have failed to find the appropriate words, you have, bowing to you!