TRANS Anyone believe Toyota about the accelerator problem?

O2BNOK

Veteran Member
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/6743567.html

..."Toyota Motor Corp. says the gas pedal design in Weiss' truck and more than 4 million other Toyota and Lexus vehicles makes them vulnerable to being trapped open by floor mats, and recently announced a costly recall to fix the problem.

But Weiss is convinced his incident wasn't caused by a floor mat. He said he removed the mats in his truck months earlier after his truck suddenly accelerated and rear-ended a BMW."".....

story con't at the link.



The comments from owners and others at this site are quite interesting:

http://www.wislawjournal.com/articl...wont-end-acceleration-accidents-lawyers-claim

Plaintiffs’ lawyers probe Toyota crashes
Recall won’t end acceleration accidents, lawyers claim


This site explains how the throttle-by-wire systems work.
http://www.aa1car.com/library/throttle-by-wire.htm



http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=what-might-cause-a-gas-pe
This site has an interesting quote.
"Unlike some manufacturers such as Volkswagen and the other German carmakers, Toyota has yet to implement what's called a smart throttle. It's a software algorithm that allows the brakes to override the accelerator."


Another site that points at the electronic throttle system as the cause of the runaway acceleration:
http://www.myfoxla.com/dpp/money/times-toyota-throttle-acceleration-problems-20091128


This site has a quote about the brake-override installation.
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1945393,00.html

In addition, Toyota will install a brake-override system that cuts engine power in case of simultaneous application of both the accelerator and brake pedals.


seems to me that it's more than floor mats or gas pedal design at work here, but I've been called paranoid before. :screw:
 

Guns-N-Moses

Senior Member
I don't! (believe Toyota about the accelerator problem)


I think something else is going on and have felt this way from the beginning.

Toyota has been a leader in quality for decades. I can't believe their Engineers would have allowed this. If this were a problem I think they would have addressed it the day it was discovered (not months or years later)

This all seems a bit too suspicious. After what happened to the US Auto manufacturers (cash for clunker programs, many dealerships forced out of business) it didn’t surprise me when I heard about this. I also know that Honda is also in the news for some other issue.

Lets see how long until we hear of a problem with Hyundai cars! (They’re one of the only other successful car companies that I can think of)
 

Cheval

Inactive
nope! just look at the recall to know there's more to it. That big crash in Southern California that killed the state trooper and three family members was in a Lexus ES350 that got its accelerator stuck. That model wasn't even part of the recall...:hmm:
 

Sid Vicious

Veteran Member
While there may be a problem, I would guestimate that 90% of these problems are easily correctable by the operator of the vehicle. Turn the car off, shift to neutral, kick the gas pedal, or slam on the brakes. There have been multiple issues by all manufacturers with drive by wire systems.
 

Kris Gandillon

The Other Curmudgeon
_______________
We are mixing apples and oranges here. There are two different recalls. The floor mats were the original issue in the original recall. The second and most recent issue and larger recall appears to be electronic in nature and has nothing to do with the floormats. The quote I heard was that the accelerator peddle was slow to release...i.e. electronically/logically stayed depressed longer than it should even though the driver had completely lifted foot from accelerator.

Kris
 

Vector

Veteran Member
Nope. I for one do NOT believe the official Toyota/NHTSA-approved story.
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/22399644/detail.html
Toyota Confident In Fix, Others Not Sure

Lentz Says The Fix Is In

Guy Gordon

POSTED: Monday, February 1, 2010
UPDATED: 12:41 pm EST February 1, 2010

In an exclusive interview on NBC’s Today Show, Toyota Sales Chief Jim Lentz told Matt Lauer the company is confident this is the final fix to the persistent unintended acceleration issue. Lentz says: “We’ve studied the events of unintended acceleration and it comes down to two issues, one is the mat (pedal entrapment), and we announced a recall on that late last year. The sticking issue we just announced and put a stop sell out. We are confident we have a fix for that, and between those two things, this will be under control. ”
In a 6:30 A.M. release Toyota says it has a “rigorously tested solution.” It amounts to a steel reinforcement assembly “that eliminates the excess friction that has caused the pedals to stick in rare instances. In addition, Toyota has developed an effective solution for vehicles in production,” it said in the statement.
Lentz says mechanics in dealerships are being trained. Parts will be shipped today (Feb. 1) and notification of consumers should begin by the end of the week. New assemblies will be placed in vehicles now in the production process. It will take months to fully service the 2.3 million vehicles under this recall.
There is a growing body of skeptics who are unsure sticking pedals or mats are responsible for the bulk of the complaints, accidents, and deaths associated with sudden acceleration. The L.A. Times reviewed more than 2000 complaints of sudden acceleration going back to 1999. Only 5% of the complaints were blamed on sticky accelerator pedals.
The pedals in question were manufactured by CTS of Elkhart, Indiana and were made to Toyota’s specifications. The company insists its product is not to blame: “The problem of sudden unintended acceleration has been reported to have existed in some Lexus vehicles and Toyota vehicles going back to 1999, when CTS did not even make this product for any customer,” the company told the Times.
Other safety experts are unconvinced: “The way the sudden-acceleration problems are occurring in reported incidents doesn’t comport with how this sticky pedal is described,” said Sean Kane, president of Safety Research & Strategies, a Rehoboth, Mass., auto safety consulting firm. “We know this recall is a red herring.” As we’ve reported, Kane and others are focussing attention on Electronic Throttle Control Systems. The Times reported the acceleration complaints rose rapidly in the years after electronic throttles were introduced, by fivefold in some cases. But Lentz insists the company “tested the electronics thoroughly as have other independents. There are redundant fail-safe mechanisms within that pedal.” The company says it is certain electronics are not to blame. “We are convinced and confident that it is in fact the sticky accelerator and the issue of entrapment.”
Skeptics will have a chance to voice their concern when the U.S. Congress begins hearings into the issues of sudden acceleration February 25th. The federal government’s own safety agency will also face a grilling. Safety regulators repeatedly denied requests for investigations into the unintended acceleration complaints. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration investigated the electronics and found no defect. There were in fact 6 separate NHTSA investigations that found to solution for the occurences, and the New York Times reports: ”In at least three cases, the agency denied petitions for further investigative action because it did not see a pattern of defects and because of a “need to allocate and prioritize N.H.T.S.A.’s limited resources” elsewhere, according to agency documents.”
It’s hard to imagine what could be a higher priority than a runaway acceleration of vehicles, but we’ll await the answers of safety czars when they face Congress later this month.
Copyright 2010 by ClickOnDetroit.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.



------------------------------------------------------------




I stll think Toyota does know what the problem is but doesn't know how to fix it.
Wi-Fi anyone? These incidents all are happening in large cities with veritible electromagnetic blizzards. TV and radio, cellphone towers, police, fire and EMT comms, civilian and military comms, satellite uplinks and downlinks to and from TV and Radio stations, businesses, cars and now wi-fi. Yes, these things operate on different frequencies, but they are all ER. Maybe Toyota's drive-by-wire system has become sensitive to them.
 

rhughe13

Heart of Dixie
Hey if onstar can stop your vehicle, then why can't they kill you too?

Maybe these cars don't have onstar, maybe they have something else. Who knows.
 

Cheval

Inactive
We are mixing apples and oranges here. There are two different recalls. The floor mats were the original issue in the original recall. The second and most recent issue and larger recall appears to be electronic in nature and has nothing to do with the floormats. The quote I heard was that the accelerator peddle was slow to release...i.e. electronically/logically stayed depressed longer than it should even though the driver had completely lifted foot from accelerator.

Kris

You're right. I had to look it over closer....didn't realize it.

but, with that said, it seems pretty incredible that they have sudden acceleration on many of the SAME models and are blaming it on two separate things: floor mats and a faulty accelerator pedal? wtf is going on???

Current FLOOR MAT recall models:

The new models covered under the recall are the 2008-2010 Highlander, 2009-2010 Corolla, 2009-2010 Venza, 2009-2010 Matrix and 2009-2010 Pontiac Vibe. The previously recalled models are the 2007-2010 Camry, 2005-2010 Avalon, 2004-2009 Prius, 2005-2010 Tacoma, 2007-2010 Tundra, 2007-2010 Lexus ES 350, and 2006-2010 Lexus IS 250 and IS350.

Current accelerator pedal recall:

2009-2010 RAV4
2009-2010 Corolla
2009-2010 Matrix
2005-2010 Avalon
Certain 2007-2010 Camrys
2010 Highlander
2007-2010 Tundra
2008-2010 Sequoia
 

O2BNOK

Veteran Member
We are mixing apples and oranges here. There are two different recalls. The floor mats were the original issue in the original recall. The second and most recent issue and larger recall appears to be electronic in nature and has nothing to do with the floormats. The quote I heard was that the accelerator peddle was slow to release...i.e. electronically/logically stayed depressed longer than it should even though the driver had completely lifted foot from accelerator.

Kris

sorry if my OP did not illustrate that I was speaking of two different problems, although they seem to have the same end result.

oh, look, I did point out that there were two problems:

seems to me that it's more than floor mats or gas pedal design at work here,
 

Marthanoir

TB Fanatic
They are also recalling Honda's & Peugots & Citroens over here in Europe too


World
26,000 Toyota cars recalled in Ireland
watch Monday, 1 February 2010 22:16

Toyota Ireland has announced that 26,000 cars will be recalled in this country in order to address a potential fault in the vehicles accelerators.

Toyota Ireland recall statement

The recall will include vehicles from eight model ranges including Avensis, Auris, Corrolla and the RAV 4.
Advertisement

The recall is part of a worldwide recall by Toyota after it emerged that in rare instances accelerators could stick or not return to idle due to wearing in the accelerator mechanism.

However two of the most popular Toyota models, the 1.4 petrol Corolla and 1.4 petrol Auris are not included in the recall.

Elsewhere, Honda Ireland is recalling nearly 3,000 cars in Ireland as part of a worldwide recall of the company's Jazz model.

Company representative John Donohoe said all Jazz cars sold here from 2002 to 2009 have to be checked because of a potential concern with the electric window switch in the driver's door.

Mr Donohoe said the switch could short circuit if contaminated with liquid.

Separately, French car group PSA will recall 97,000 Peugeot 107s and Citroen C1s made in a Czech factory it shares with Japanese car maker Toyota.

The move comes after the Japanese giant on Friday pulled millions of cars around the world due to faulty accelerator pedals.

However, Peugeot in Ireland released a statement this morning saying no Peugeot 107s sold in this country will be recalled.

Peugeot Ireland said the 600 107s sold here since 2006 were from a different batch to those at the centre of the recall. Citroen will recall just two cars from the Irish market.

PSA said the recall of 107s and Citroen C1s was a precautionary measure after Toyota recalled millions of cars because of potential accelerator problems.
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Audio & Video

* Nine News: Joe Mag Raollaigh reports that Toyota Ireland has announced that 26,000 cars will be recalled in this country
* One News: Watch the video

Story from RTÉ News:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0201/cars.html
 

BigBadBossyDog

Inactive
While there may be a problem, I would guestimate that 90% of these problems are easily correctable by the operator of the vehicle. Turn the car off, shift to neutral, kick the gas pedal, or slam on the brakes. There have been multiple issues by all manufacturers with drive by wire systems.

How would that correct the problem? The driver didn't cause the problem, now did he?
 

Ben Sunday

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Hey if onstar can stop your vehicle, then why can't they kill you too?

Maybe these cars don't have onstar, maybe they have something else. Who knows.

Onstar is a General Motors product. AFAIK, it is not available in other brands of vehicles.
 

Loon

Inactive
I thought that floormat explanation was poppycock. I figure if it was the floor mats you just take them out and the problem is fixed. Now the truth comes out. I'm glad they're fixing it anyway.

I wish when car companies find a good design and work all the problems out of it they'd just stick with it and stop redesigning it all the time. The consumers are like guiney pigs and some get killed trying out their new cars.
 

Thunderbird

Veteran Member
Yes I believe them. It would be stupid to lie (liabitity wise). I also believe all of the naysayers are looking for a court payday.
 

LtPiper

Taking cover
Interesting.... My Prius is in the floor mat recall and I never got a notice. Time to stop by the dealership.
 

PilotFighter

Bomb & Bullet Technician
I'd just like to know when people became to damn stupid to shift the car into nuetral, let the engine race if it wants to, then step on the damn brakes and pull to the side of the road. Then turn the car off.
 

Cheval

Inactive
sorry if my OP did not illustrate that I was speaking of two different problems, although they seem to have the same end result.

oh, look, I did point out that there were two problems:

oh I didn't realize he was talking to you and not to me.
 

Red Baron

Paleo-Conservative
_______________
I'd just like to know when people became to damn stupid to shift the car into nuetral, let the engine race if it wants to, then step on the damn brakes and pull to the side of the road. Then turn the car off.


FWIW - Many of the new Toyotas have a keyless ignition system. You have to push the ignition button for three full seconds before the engine will stop. That can be a lifetime at high speed and in heavy traffic. It's new and most people haven't read their owner's manual in excrutiating detail to know about it.

My take on the whole Toyota recall?

#1 - Floor mats are a tertiary issue. I'm sure it happens on occasion but not to the extent that is percieved. Toyota statistically has about four times the runaway engine problems than all the other car manufactures. That is a huge red flag IMHO. Solely blaming the floor mats last year was a dumb, slow and lazy solution.

#2 - The sticking accelerator issue was known a while back. Toyota is not being completely honest. They already had a supposed "fix" in the pipeline. I think they wanted to deal with this in a piecmeal basis. When the scope of the problem became public Toyota had to move fast and produced the only other "solution" they had available. The whole drive by wire throttle system seems mechanically complex. It tried to give you a "virtual" pedal "feel". Too mechanically complex and bound to fail eventually in a few cases.

#3 - The Real Deal - Both issues above are in play but there is a more insidious and damaging issue. Toyota's "drive by wire" throttle management systems suffer from insufficient logic. Toyota lacks a "smart brake" feature which will idle the engine if the brakes are engaged. Most other car companies have this "fail safe" system. In hindsight Toyota messed up big time. It appears that there are some circumstances that allow the computer on a Toyota to initiate a runaway engine scenario. Too many reports coming in now to ignore. Many more to follow I suspect. When is Toyota going to admit there are some engine management issues?

I really believe Toyota has -three- problems. It is imperative they deal with all three, all at the same time. Somebody is going to prove Item #3 -does- occur and then all living hell is going to break loose.
 

Quisling

Inactive
I have had the acceleration system on a vehicle stick open on 2 occasions, both on older US brand autos. Very simple to put transmission in neutral, brake and pull off the road. Is someone suggesting this won't work on newer models?
 

LONEWOLF

Inactive
Yes Q - The problem with many newer Toyotas is that they are not mechanically-linked like those of the older days, but "drive by wire" which means they are run, controlled by computer signals instead. If there is a problem with the computer, then the ignition, engine speed, gear controls, and more are affected too. Not as simple as "turn the key and put into N", as there often is no key but a proximity sensor to allow those with the sensor within range to push an ignition actuator button and nudge the gear actuator (not a mechanical control) into R or D.
 

Quisling

Inactive
Yes Q - The problem with many newer Toyotas is that they are not mechanically-linked like those of the older days, but "drive by wire" which means they are run, controlled by computer signals instead. If there is a problem with the computer, then the ignition, engine speed, gear controls, and more are affected too. Not as simple as "turn the key and put into N", as there often is no key but a proximity sensor to allow those with the sensor within range to push an ignition actuator button and nudge the gear actuator (not a mechanical control) into R or D.

So, does that the transmission cannot be shifted into neutral while the engine is running if there is a computer problem? If so, that sounds like a horrible engineering design.
 

susan48

Inactive
So, does that the transmission cannot be shifted into neutral while the engine is running if there is a computer problem? If so, that sounds like a horrible engineering design.

That sounds like a horrible nightmare design.......pretty scarey stuff!! Computers can always be hacked.
 
Today, the news report said that the sticking pedal was caused by condensation inside the linkage which caused the pedal to stick. When I took the Tacoma in this evening to get the tired aired up (the idiot light was on), the guy told me that there were no Tacomas in the recall. Good. It's a plain Jane truck--no bells or whistles.
 

Breeta

Veteran Member
I'd just like to know when people became to damn stupid to shift the car into nuetral, let the engine race if it wants to, then step on the damn brakes and pull to the side of the road. Then turn the car off.

That's exactly what I did the TWO (2) times my 2000 Toyota's accelerator stuck. YEP! Not even part of the recall!! Luckily it worked both times and I wasn't stuck in traffic or anything so I didn't hit anyone. Pulled (Coasted) over to the curb with engine revving like crazy, pumping the break until finally the accelerator released.
 

Beetree

Veteran Member
In the old Days..

There used to be a cable that was connected to gas pedal. I guess we are now really pushing a button that tells a computer to go. We might as well not even have a pedal on the floor. We might as well have a remote control in our hands. We are so tech bound we are tech no good. We are just riding in a computer. What if the brakes just decide to screech on at 70mph? We have to know that there have been countless incidents that will never be proven. I remember last year a big Nancy Grace etc. etc. deal about a mom with a bunch of kids calling 911 saying she could not control her car and it would not stop acc. They ended up blaming it on pills or something. Even though she called and explained, before the crash. We must re-examine many crashes. It is a nightmare.
 

Troke

Deceased
Considering the number of times I have had mechanical accelerators jam through the years (usually ice) and the wife of an acquaintance had the presence of mind to shift into neutral but forgot to turn off the motor, threw a rod, I find the current contretemps demanding we go back to mechanical systems to be a bit droll.
 

Knoxville's Joker

Has No Life - Lives on TB
There used to be a cable that was connected to gas pedal. I guess we are now really pushing a button that tells a computer to go. We might as well not even have a pedal on the floor. We might as well have a remote control in our hands. We are so tech bound we are tech no good. We are just riding in a computer. What if the brakes just decide to screech on at 70mph? We have to know that there have been countless incidents that will never be proven. I remember last year a big Nancy Grace etc. etc. deal about a mom with a bunch of kids calling 911 saying she could not control her car and it would not stop acc. They ended up blaming it on pills or something. Even though she called and explained, before the crash. We must re-examine many crashes. It is a nightmare.

It may come to a point where we eventually have to go back to non computerized cars as a selling point.
 

ShyGirl

Veteran Member
As I said before on a previous thread, I believe it is a software glitch. It would be a nightmare for Toyota to have to admit that you really don't have any control over the gas pedal and that an out of control computer program could take over your car, so they are blaming it on something that people think they can control. Even well tested software can get into modes you don't expect. I have spent weeks chasing down almost random failures caused by an unexpected configuration of events, trying to understand what was happening. I am willing to bet that Toyota hasn't figured out the unexpected configuration of events that is causing the software failure and they are buying time. When you take your car in for the recall they will not only change out the pedal (at least for show) but they will probably do some reprogramming hoping to at least mitigate the failure until they can understand what is causing it.

ETA:
I went to a training session once on real-time operating systems software and the guy teaching the class used to be in avaition software. He said automotive software is more critical than aviation software because the greater number of units (cars -vs- airplanes) and operation hours will flush out any random software problem.
 

Cheval

Inactive
Further evidence that this problem is M U C H larger than they're letting on!! Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak brought this up during an event in San Francisco yesterday:

"I don't get upset and teed off at things in life, except computers that don't work right," was his segue into the Toyota comments. Then he said he had been trying to get through to Toyota and the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (NHTSA) for three months but could not get anyone to explore an alleged software-related acceleration problem--as described below.

"Toyota has this accelerator problem we've all heard about," Wozniak said. "Well, I have many models of Prius that got recalled, but I have a new model that didn't get recalled. This new model has an accelerator that goes wild but only under certain conditions of cruise control. And I can repeat it over and over and over again--safely."

"This is software. It's not a bad accelerator pedal. It's very scary, but luckily for me I can hit the brakes
," he said.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10445564-64.html?tag=newsLatestHeadlinesArea.0
 

don24mac

Veteran Member
Nope... Not likely the gas pedal wearing (or whatever they're saying this week). The floor-mat cause was just a stop-gap to keep people temporarily happy while they try to find the real reason for the acceleration. The can't say the mat problem was a ruse, so they'll still continue to change the floor mats.

We bought a 07 Camry in December of 06. Right off the lot it had the acceleration problem. No "normal wear" issue because it was brand new with 14 miles on it. When we brought it to the dealer for this issue, we were told it was called "surging" and it was normal for the new Camry. When we insisted it certainly wasn't normal for the car to accelerate and slow down to a crawl by itself, they simply stated the car was just learning our driving habits and to get used to it.

We brought that car in numerous times, and it had to be brought in on a flatbed, too. I have a stack of service request documents showing the problems, and their finding the car met Toyota standards.

I even filed a complaint with the NHTSA, which can be read here : (use ODI number 10186112) That I filed in March of 2007. So, this is NOT a new issue, as they are trying to claim.

By the way. The floor mats were still in the trunk when this was happening. This car was so dangerous to drive we were going to "Lemon Law" it, but couldn't afford to be without a car for so many months. We finally traded it for a loss back to the same dealer. They likely sold it to another dupe.

I don't think they really know the problem. However, in Canada, lawsuit is being pursued stating the problem is much more than the simple gas pedal problem. They state it's an inherent design defect in the whole throttle control system.

So, this problem is much deeper than you're seeing in MSM. I expect it will keep expanding. I'm holding all my documents for just that time and will show them to anyone that may need proof of this problem back at least to December of 2006.

Can anyone tell I'm still none-too-pleased with Toyota? After being a loyal Toyota person for over 20 years (we bought four new ones in that time) I'll never buy another.
 
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Squid

Veteran Member
I saw some discussion on CNBC...

included was discussion that it couldn't be the programming on the so called "fly by wire" controls but... I thought I caught a snippet that they were going to re-program the controls during the part change-out. Supposedly to give the brake priority if the signals receive BOTH a demand to brake and a demand to accelerate. The implication given was that the stupid drivers must be double footing their driving hitting both the accelerator and brake at the same time, and the programming may have given priority to the accelerator.

seems odd they keep stressing that its not the electronic control programming, almost like "they doth protest to much."
 

Simple Man

Inactive
When I first heard about this, my first thought was a computer glitch of some sort.

Gas milage be danged, all this drive by wire stuff makes me appreciate my 1977 Ford F100 all the more!! Still miss my 1972 F100 4x4 shortbed, but it gave up the ghost and I sold what was left off to a feller for parts.
 

Red Baron

Paleo-Conservative
_______________
Toyota mangement fell to the classic Oriental paradigm of no bad news. ever. It's disrespectful. Notice how no Toyotas are being recalled in Japan, but in Europe, North America and elsewhere? But not Japan. Nothing to disgrace the Mother Company on it's home turf. Apparently all the "good" parts go to Japan?

Meanwhile back in the USA. The old quality first mantra has been supplanted by the bean counters taking over from the engineers. Downgrade every part so it -just- barely works. That started happening in the early 90's. Once that car hits the street, THERE ARE NO PROBLEMS.

Blame it all on the quick and dirty fix. Floor mats and a sheet metal widgy for the gas pedal.

You just wait!
 

SIRR1

Inactive
Hmmm does anyone think the geeks at Toyota forgot to design in a return spring into the gas pedal assembly?

It can't be that simple can it?

SIRR1
 

LtPiper

Taking cover
You know I've been thinking about this and I bet its a chip defect. I makes total since to me after thinking about it. On my Prius the EOC was giving a lot of error ever increasing till they reset it and told me it would be $2000.00 to replace that part that appeared to be failing. If it was a defect in chips that runs across all those models replacing that CPU would be in the 2k range from what I was quoted. Millions of cars each needing a $2k repair would put one hell of a dent in the bottom line even if it was only a handful of the chips defective.

A $5 foot pedal or $10 floor mat would be a lot cheaper.
 

Troke

Deceased
"...Apparently all the "good" parts go to Japan?.."

If it is a 'chip' problem, it is just possible that Japan had a completely different chip than all the others.
 

etc

Inactive
I just dumped my Toyota, since I learned my model often develops catastrophic engine problems. I haven't gotten there yet to be clear but dumped it just in case since this is becoming a common nightmare problem.

Apparently it affects the 4 cyl engine in various Toyota vehicles. Don't get a Camry with the 4-cyl 2.4L engine!!!

check out carsurvey.org and other auto feedback sites.

Here is one example of such a failure.

http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/camry/148454-camry-with-stripped-head-bolts/

I have a 2003 Camry 4cyl le bought around January of 2003. I have taken good care of this car but last week i took it into my mechanic to see why it was overheating, and I also couldn't seem to start it. I actually had it towed to the mechanic. He said I had a blown gasket. He gave me a price of $1800. The next day he called and told me the 3 bolts on the back side of the engine were stripped and loose. He said we will have to redrill the three holes in back and put inserts in. He also suggested that we have a valve job since the head was off. He also decided that he would drill 6 of the bolt holes, Three in back and three in front to be safe. and the price would be $2400. He is a top mechanic.
 
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ShyGirl

Veteran Member
included was discussion that it couldn't be the programming on the so called "fly by wire" controls but... I thought I caught a snippet that they were going to re-program the controls during the part change-out. Supposedly to give the brake priority if the signals receive BOTH a demand to brake and a demand to accelerate. The implication given was that the stupid drivers must be double footing their driving hitting both the accelerator and brake at the same time, and the programming may have given priority to the accelerator.

seems odd they keep stressing that its not the electronic control programming, almost like "they doth protest to much."

Exactly what I was saying. They will do some programming to cover up the software failure when it happens but they still don't know what the problem is.

You know I've been thinking about this and I bet its a chip defect. I makes total since to me after thinking about it. On my Prius the EOC was giving a lot of error ever increasing till they reset it and told me it would be $2000.00 to replace that part that appeared to be failing. If it was a defect in chips that runs across all those models replacing that CPU would be in the 2k range from what I was quoted. Millions of cars each needing a $2k repair would put one hell of a dent in the bottom line even if it was only a handful of the chips defective.

A $5 foot pedal or $10 floor mat would be a lot cheaper.

The computer chip itself is not that expensive. It is a $2 microprocessor. It does have to be installed on the board and programmed. They were probably replacing the whole control module but still the cost is not that high. Quality control for manufacturing microporcessors is is very good but even at that an error can slip through like the math problem with some Intel chips a few years ago. Cars have many ECUs (electronic control units) doing various functions because it is cheaper to stick in a microprocessor and provide the functionality with software instead of normal electrical/mechanical parts. There are some cars with a 100 or more ECUs in them and all of these ECUs talk to each other over a vehicle bus. Software is one thing that is hard to test and quality control is not on the same level as manufacturing electronic/electrical/mechanical parts. Your riding on a lot of software. If the engineer did not forsee a certain configuration of events and did not test for that configuration a possible failure could easily occur. Now with much of the programming being done by people in Low Cost Countries (read India) the quality of the software is even worse.
 
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