ECON People losing homes and living in RVs

***Dennis Olson*** · #1 11-04-2009, 02:20 PM

As many of you know, I am seriously looking into selling off a bunch of my "stuff" anf buying a good used motorhome, where the dogs and I can live when we get tossed from the house. Well, I was just looking at a very interesting couple of articles on this very issue. I thought I'd post them here:

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Dad lost his job, so this family lives on the road

In a tough economy, many are trading their houses for RVs and the highway
By Michael Inbar
TODAYShow.com contributor

updated 8:11 a.m. CT, Wed., Nov . 4, 2009

When Dave Dudley lost his plum job as a vice president of a software company, he knew it wouldn’t be long before his house mortgage became unmanageable. So he changed his address — to Anywhere, U.S.A.

Dudley gathered up his wife, Joleen, and children, Justice, Adriane and Jayden, and hit the highway. But it’s far from a Jack Kerouac “On the Road”-style life; the Dudleys live a pleasant, relatively roomy life in their 41-foot Heartland Cyclone trailer, towed by a beefy GMC Topkick truck.

As they travel, they’re likely to pass similar families along the way. According to the Recreational Vehicle Industry Association, some 400,000 Americans live full time on the road. And while some of them are retirees seeing their golden years through a windshield, the stubborn recession has made what seems like a vacation life a necessary, full-time proposition for many. Kimberly Goza, a 20-year veteran of the nomad life who runs a Web site for on-the-road families with her husband, says they have recently seen their traffic increase tenfold.

Home, home on the road

TODAY profiled the trend of families pulling up stakes in a tough economy on Wednesday, telling the story through the eyes of the Dudley family and their search for adventure — as well as a cheaper lifestyle.

Joleen Dudley told NBC that when her husband lost his job, “I panicked. I saw six months down the road and my husband still not having a job and having a mortgage that we wouldn’t be able to pay.”

Dave and Joleen had long dreamed of ditching their high-maintenance lifestyle and living free as birds. But the idea really hit home when Dave started to crunch numbers.

“Just taking care of the house, with the mortgage and the insurance and the utility bill and all that, we were probably looking at around $3,000 a month,” he told NBC. “Now we’re looking around $300 a month for the same thing.”

Joleen told the Web site momlogic.com the reaction from friends was mixed. “One stated, ‘What a beautiful thing to do with your kids — they will learn so much,’ ” she said. “My other friend’s comment was, ‘What, you’ll be homeless!’ ”

Lots of togetherness

But the Dudleys are far from homeless: Their home just rolls. Justice, 14, Adriane, 10, and Jayden, 8, do their schoolwork online, but the whole of North America has become their classroom. One week the family backyard is a beach in Mexico; the next, the Santa Ynez Mountains.

In fact, there’s little between the two coasts that the Dudleys haven’t seen during their nearly one year on the road. They’re currently taking in the fall foliage in New Hampshire before they head south to beat the cold.

The Dudleys are living in the relatively cozy 400 square feet of their trailer, but Justice, the family’s animated eldest, says he doesn’t miss the family’s sprawling former home in Washington state: He’s learning the joys that can come with close-quarters family togetherness.

“In a big house you’re not really with your family at all,” Justice told NBC. “You’re just everywhere: You’re at a friend’s house, they’re at a soccer game, school.” When asked if he missed the sedentary lifestyle, Justice beamed and said, “Nope! Not at all.”

The road goes on forever

Things recently took an uptick financially for the Dudleys. Dave landed a new job that allows him to work from his trailer home on the road. Joleen told momlogic.com that she and Dave gave their gypsy life a two-year timetable, and are currently eyeing the spots in their travels they like best for a possible nesting place when they retire their trailer.

But, she admitted to NBC, any solid plans they make could go up in smoke in an ever-changing world.

“Who knows when the economy is going to turn around?” Joleen said. “It could be next year, it could be five years, or 10 years. So we’re just making our plans with the best that we can go on right now.”

In the meantime, the Dudleys stick with a tried-and-true format for travel: Husband Dave drives, wife Joleen handles directions.

For more information about families on extended road trips, visit FamiliesontheRoad.com. And to learn more about the Dudley family and their travels, visit their Web site here.

© 2009 MSNBC Interactive. Reprints
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33616972...-today_people/

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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31947352...lkhart_project

On the road again
... and again, and again

Of the million or so RV owners in the United States, each year about 7 percent cut their ties to home and hearth and go full time, according to estimates from the Good Sam Club.

Roland Jones
Business news editor

updated 6:36 a.m. CT, Thurs., July. 30, 2009

NEW YORK— Jerry Orchard, 73, and his wife Nancy, 67, have always loved to RV. Since buying their first rig, in 1965, they have hit the road for family vacations. But when Jerry retired about 10 years ago, they decided to step things up a notch.

For the last 13 years the Orchards have lived aboard their 38-foot “Dutch Star” motor home, crisscrossing the nation, staying in group camps and national parks from the Pacific Northwest to Maine. They belong to a select set of RV owners known as “full-timers” — people who have opted to live exclusively in their motor homes, or travel trailers.

“At first our RV was for vacations, but when I turned 60 we had a dream of seeing the United States so we went full-time,” said Jerry Orchard. “Now our rig is our cabin in the woods, our beach cottage, our place by the lake or our hunting camp. Unless you’ve very rich, you can’t own all those things, but we have them all in our RV.”

Of the million or so RV owners in the United States each year about 7 percent cut their ties to home and hearth and go full time, according to estimates from the Good Sam Club, a community of RV owners. The organization defines full-timers as those who live exclusively in their RV with no permanent fixed home.

Full-time RV-ers typically spend the winter months in warmer states like Florida and Texas, moving north in the summer months. They usually sell their homes and most of their possessions, or put them in storage, and hit the road, moving from camping spot to camping spot, explained Sue Bray, vice president and executive director of the Good Sam Club.

“People love the RV lifestyle so much that they ask themselves, ‘Why have I got all the hassle of owning my home when I’m never there and RV-ing all the time?’” said Bray. “So I think full-timers find selling everything and hitting the road to be quite liberating. They love the independence, and perhaps these people in their professional lives have always had a boss telling them what to do. Now all of a sudden you have your house there on wheels and you can make all your own decisions.”

In a world of Wi-Fi hotspots, mobile Internet and Facebook pages, full-timers are more connected with friends and family than ever before, making the prospect of hitting the road an easier step to take, Bray said. Online discussions show many serious RV-ers dream about going full time, but only a few actually do it, she said.

“The full-timers are on there, chatting about places they’ve gone and the things they’ve done. There’s incredible sense of community with these people. There is an aura around going full time in a RV,” Bray said. “People say, ‘We use the RV on vacation time, but we really want to go full time.’”

Nathan and Sherrie Strite, both 55, are planning a move to full-time RV-ing in the very near future. Over the past 10 years they have talked about taking the plunge, but only recently they decided to move ahead, spurred on by news of friends’ inability to become permanent RV-ers because of failing health.

The Strites first started camping by RV in 1992 to get away from the stress of running a local John Deere dealership. They joined a Good Sam Club chapter in south-central Pennsylvania and started meeting and traveling with fellow RV enthusiasts.

'Life is short and you have to enjoy it'Now the Strites are preparing to go full time. They have put their house up for rent and are selling their possessions, and they are making plans to sell their home — but not until they’re comfortable that they can fully commit to full-time RV-ing. In preparation for that day they’re spending as much time as they can in their RV. Since March 1 they have spent only one weekend at their home in Shippensburg, Pa.

“We’ve realized that life is short and you have to enjoy it while you can,” said Nathan Strite. “We started planning for this about 10 years ago, but lately people have been telling us you shouldn’t wait, you should just do it now. So that’s what we’re doing; we’re on our way.”

The Nathans’ plan is to spend winter in a warm climate and return to Pennsylvania in the summer to be with family. Finding a good health care plan has been a big challenge, but they think they’ve found one that they can afford. For living expenses, they plan to pick up casual work at campgrounds and amusement parks.

“We are not independently wealthy, so we’ll have to support ourselves somehow,” Nathan said. “It’s not like we need to make a whole lot of money — just enough to pay our bills, and we’ve rented the house, so we have some income there.”

With money likely to be tight and with no fixed abode, the question is what attracts full-time RV-ers to a life on the open road.

“It’s the sense of freedom; being on your own, enjoying your life and meeting a lot of great people,” Nathan said. “Obviously it’s not for everyone, but my wife and I agreed it’s something we want to do, so there’s not one person pushing the other. And when it comes to getting on, we have been married for 36 years, and we think we know each other fairly well. And on the road you have a different mind-set; you’re more relaxed and not stressing out about things.”

Another attraction of full-time RV living is the lack of a fixed timetable. In 13 years on the road he still hasn’t fulfilled one of his dreams: He wants to spend a month in each continental U.S. state, but he reckons he’ll need nearly five years to complete that task.

“For now, we are enjoying ourselves immensely,” he said. “It’s a way of life we enjoy, and we realize that as we get older and feebler we’ll have to get out of it. But until we get to that point, we’ll keep on getting bugs on the windshield.”

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Living on the road full-time: Is it right for you?

If you’re thinking about trading your house for an RV, consider these issues
TODAY

updated 8:45 a.m. CT, Wed., Nov . 4, 2009

Scott Bidstrup lived on the road for six years, with no permanent address, no phone, no job, no responsibilities. He writes that it was one of the best periods of his life. We’ve all thought about doing it, but is it right for you?

Full-timing — is it right for you?

Lots and lots of folks dream of doing what I did — it's called "full-timing" by those who do it.

Latest estimates are that over a million North Americans are full-timers, living permanently in their RVs with no permanent address. Many are retired, but many others work part of the year, just long enough for a 'stash' to keep them going for a few months or a year or so.

A surprising number of engineers, project managers and construction people are full-timers, living in their motor homes and traveling from job to job. It's economically a very efficient means of handling the housing problem, especially if you would otherwise be moving a lot to relatively brief work sites.

For retirees, it has the blessing of not having a house to maintain. Housecleaning is easy and quick, there's no lawn to mow, there's no snow removal problem in the winter. And the scenery is wonderful. Every day you can enjoy scenery that city folks would pay hundreds of thousands for if they could buy it at all, and for you it's free. And when you're tired of it, you change it!

The option for retirees is whether to stay in developed campgrounds and RV parks or to "boondock." Boondocking is camping in undeveloped areas. The latter is made possible by the "14 day law." It is a federal law that says that federally owned public lands outside of national parks and monuments is open to camping unless the local land manager has closed it for a specific reason. Campers are free to camp wherever they like, within the limitations imposed by the land manager, but are required to move after 14 days (the law doesn't say how far, but most land managers interpret it to mean at least a half a mile, though some require 25 miles in heavily used areas), and leave the campsite as they found it. I found boondocking much more to my liking, besides being cheaper and far safer.

If full-timing is a lifestyle you're considering, but don't know if it's right for you, here are some of the important questions you need to ask:

If living with a partner, do both of you really want to do this? If there's any hesitation on the part of either one of you, don't even consider it. Living in an RV means living in close, tight quarters, and if both of you aren't wanting to make it work, and committed to the project, it won't. If you don't get along exceptionally well, don't consider it. Living so close together will greatly aggravate any annoyances that are a part of your relationship. Are you sure your partnership is strong enough to survive it? In a tiny motor home, there's no room for arrogant egos or emotional, unreasoning attitudes. Both partners will have to be prepared to compromise a lot. Are you prepared to be that flexible?

There are lots of conveniences that you don't even think about that you'll have to do without. Telephones are such a part of our lives, that some people just can't live without them. In an RV, you can have a cellular phone, if you want it and can afford it, but it isn't the same, since it costs big money to talk for long periods, and many, even most, rural areas are poorly served if served at all by cell service providers. If you can't do without a phone, don't go on the road. Long, hot baths and showers are another luxury you're going to have to do without. You can do that if you want, but it means you'll be going for water or to find a dump station awfully frequently if you do. Most full-timers learn quickly how to take a shower with a gallon of water or less, and doing so isn't very satisfying to those who like to luxuriate in the shower. Television anywhere is now possible with the mini-satellite dishes, but there often isn't any local television where you'll be. So if you're addicted to TV, be prepared to take a mini-dish system with you. Large storage spaces don't exist in RVs, and so you'll need to keep your needs very simple and your trash generation to an absolute minimum. Entertainment is sparse, there's no movie theater close by. A couple of dozen books, a few CDs for the boombox stereo, a lap-top computer, a 9" TV and a short-wave portable radio was about it for what kept me company for six years. It's Spartan living, and if that's a problem for you, don't even consider life on the road.

Roughing it means that it can be a bit chilly at times or hot, muggy and buggy at other times. It can be chilly when you're low on propane and don't otherwise need a trip to town. And it can be hot when the weather suddenly turns unexpectedly warm, especially in the late spring or early fall. Also, many RV's have heaters that are only moderately effective in heating the vehicle evenly. If you've got to have the perfect temperature all the time, you're going to find RV living uncomfortable. Most RV furnaces also generate a great deal of radio and TV interference, so you might have to choose between the TV and the heater if your RV has forced air heat. If you're boondocking, air conditioning is not an option unless you have a generator - which for a lot of reasons I don't recommend.

Money. Do you have an adequate source of funds to make this work? You'll need a minimum of about $8,000 a year to live comfortably, less if you're into very Spartan living, and more if you want to be able to spend freely. Your spending of money will be disciplined not by cost as much as where to put things, but you'll need to have a steady supply of small amounts of cash and enough cash reserve for emergency vehicle repairs. Your vehicle is your home, so you'll need to have some sort of plan to replace it if it is lost in an accident or fire, or if some redneck sheriff thinks you're a drug runner and confiscates it. Have a plan in mind in case something happens that displaces you from your vehicle. Full replacement cost insurance is a really good idea. If you plan on working, you'll need a vehicle that is acceptable to RV Park operators, and that means a factory built motor home. You'll also need a steady source of job opportunities — it's best to be hooked up with several headhunters who know and like you.

Being self-reliant. You'll need to be able to change a tire, check your vehicle's vital fluids, fix a leaking roof, repair broken plumbing, etc. Can you do that? A dripping faucet in a house is a problem, but in an RV it's a crisis. If you have to call someone to fix everything that ever gets broken in your life, think twice about full-timing. You're often dozens, even hundreds of miles from anyone who could fix it for you. Even if you knew where to find someone, and all your propane is leaking from a loose fitting, or your roof is leaking in a pouring rain, you'll need to fix it now! You normally won't have the option of waiting till you can find someone to do it for you.

Children. If you have children living with you, it is possible to take them on the road, but it's not easy. I've seen it done - I met an artist who lived with his wife and two children in a school-bus he had converted, and they supported themselves by selling the art they created right there in the bus. They home-taught their children. Their children loved it, because they were born into the lifestyle and didn't know anything different. If they'd tried to take urban children on the road, I doubt it would have worked - they'd constantly be complaining about nothing to do, no movies, no friends, no places to go, etc. But children born on the road are different. They're not overstimulated as urban children too often are. And there is no bad crowd for them to run around with, and no drugs for them to get into. So it's a great way to raise children, if you can start them out that way and have the space for them in your RV. It's guaranteed that children raised that way will reflect your values, because they won't be exposed to anything you don't control.

So you've decided to do it. Now what?

The most important consideration, surprisingly enough, is selecting a mail forwarding service. This is a vitally important decision, because it determines where you're going to have to be "domiciled." Legally, it is much more than just where your vehicle must be registered and what state you'll get a drivers license in. It impacts everything that involves an address. This is a very serious legal issue, that if not properly addressed, could land you in prison, as violating domicile law is a felony in most states! And it happens more often than you might think! These laws were instituted as a part of the drug war and the fight against tax evasion, so many states have made domecile requirements much more stringent than you might imagine, and enforce them vigorously. To help prevent running afoul of the domicile laws, make sure that you use the same address for everything - mail, bill-paying, driver's licenses, insurance, income tax returns, voting, etc. In most states, use of multiple addresses for various purposes, either official or private, is specifically prohibited by domicile law. In many states, the use of a mail forwarding agency address does not constitute legal domicile. This is why it is important to take care in selecting a good mail forwarding service in a state whose laws you can live with.

The states with which I am most familiar are:

Oregon, in which it is easy to register a vehicle, it is cheap, and fairly easy to get a driver's license, and it is full-timer friendly. Oregon once required you to spend at least 30 days a year at the address where your vehicle is registered, although I'm not sure whether that requirement is still in force. That's not so bad, as Oregon isn't a bad place to spend time, and there are forwarding services that actually are associated with RV parks where you can stay the 30 days.

Idaho is friendly, and not hard to get a license from, and registration is cheap, but there are no mail forwarding services there that I know of, and it does have a state income tax. I don't know about it's domicile laws, either. It does have the advantage of rarely calling you up for jury duty.

Nevada: I don't know about it's domicile laws, though Nevada is popular, as there are lots of forwarding services in the Las Vegas area (and at least two in Pahrump, where there is no emissions test requirement), and it has not income tax, but the state is really hard-line about driver's license tests, and it may take some doing to get licensed there if you don't qualify to have the tests waived.

Texas is a good state except that you may be called to jury duty, and if called, you have to go, regardless of where you are if you're in the U.S. You'll also face a vehicle safety inspection in Texas if you ever take your motor home there. Use of a forwarding agent for domicile is allowed in Texas.

California is ridiculously expensive both for registration and for insurance and has its famous pollution laws which require you to have at least semiannual pollution tests before you can renew your registration. That can be a problem, especially if your out of state when registration is due or if you don't pass the test. If you register in California, expect to be called to jury duty about every six months to a year. You can claim distance hardship only a few times. Also, domicile is an issue. For this reason, I don't recommend it.

Arizona allows you to register in certain counties (La Paz, where Quartzite is located, is one) using a P.O. box rather than the usually required street address. Emissions testing is waived in all counties except where Phoenix and Tucson are located, and driver's licenses are issued for life! Arizona does have a state income tax, however, and I don't know about its domicile requirements. I don't know of any forwarding services in Arizona, except in the counties where emission inspections are required.

Once you've settled on a state, you'll need a mail forwarding service, which of course will become your residence for domicile purposes. Don't even consider having family or friends do it; it's a lot of work when you're not set up to do it, and is a big commitment to ask of someone. And family or friends may not be as reliable as you'd like — they have busy lives of their own and like to go on vacations too. So get a forwarding service. They can be as cheap as $100 a year. There are many of them listed in the classifieds of Highways Magazine, the magazine that comes with your Good Sam membership (which I strongly recommend for a variety of reasons).

Insurance is something you shouldn't even consider going on the road without. Many states (especially California) now impound vehicles that aren't properly insured, even if from out of state. That's inconvenient and expensive if it's your car, but it is disastrous if it's your home. Full-timer insurance policies are available through the Escapees Club's RV-Alliance America, and TravelSure, as well as through Good Sam, and Camping World. These policies are or can be tailored to full-timers, and offer coverages that standard policies won't. Be aware that most standard motor home policies are void if the owner is full-timing.

Speaking of insurance, both the Escapees club and Good Sam also offer group health insurance if you need it. Check with them for rates.

RV Clubs and Towing Insurance. The premiere RV club is, of course, Good Sam, with over a million members. They offer it all — mail forwarding (though it's in California, which I don't recommend), vehicle insurance, including towing, and a lot of travel discounts. You can buy their services a la carte. The American Automobile Association, not to be outdone, has its own RV club, though it isn't as comprehensive as Good Sam. The Escapees Club is smaller, but unlike Good Sam is geared specifically to full-timers. It has a package of services as useful to full-timers as the Good Sam package. Of all of them, the only one I've had experience with has been Good Sam. The one time I had to use their towing insurance, they really took care of me, following up with the mechanic almost every morning to make sure I was being taken care of. They even convinced the mechanic to allow me to stay living in the RV for the week it took to repair the transmission.

To buy or build an RV — That is the question

The main considerations in selecting an RV for full-timing are first, sturdiness, second, storage space, and third, small size and maneuverability. RV coach builders build for competitive specs, which generally means showing the ability to sleep half of the Chinese Army for the weekend, and sturdiness isn't a high priority, as most RV's see maybe 50,000 miles of use, mostly in campgrounds with paved roads, during their entire lifetime. That's just the opposite of what you need. The result is that they're are shy on both ruggedness (trying to minimize weight) and storage space (making room for all that bed space). This is going to be your home, so look for really solid construction (check how well kitchen cabinet drawers are assembled, how solidly paneling is attached, whether cabinets are made of plywood or particle board, etc.), and lots of storage space. You need very little bed space (just you and your partner if you have one), but lots of storage space. If the RV you're looking at has two beds and you need only one, consider ripping out the second bed and replacing it with a storage cabinet, for example. Every last cubic inch of storage space, especially indoors, is golden, and you'll use it, guaranteed.

Another consideration in factory-built RV's is that they're seldom built very tight. They're almost never rodent proof, and often are loose enough to be drafty in the winter. Not liking to have mice crawling across my face at night, I decided when I built my RV to take the time and make it as tight as possible, and it proved to be a wise decision. RV manufacturers are just not concerned about the problem, because it doesn't come up in the discussion on the sales lot. Only twice did I ever have mice in my van, and both times they were caught the first night with mousetraps.

Building an RV

If you're good at carpentry and construction, you might want to consider your own truck conversion. I did mine, and am glad I did, as I ended up with something that was far more suitable for what I needed than anything I could have bought ready made. This means you'll have to decide what kind of platform to covert:

Four-wheel drive or two-wheel drive? If you're going to boondock or drive the motor home on snowy roads, don't even consider two-wheel drive. I spent $6,000 converting mine to 4WD, and since I was boondocking, it proved to be a very wise investment indeed. I was able to lock up the hubs, put it in four low, and back out of a stuck more times than I can count (about every six weeks on average, I figure). Never use the 4WD to drive into dicey situations; it's not for that. It's for getting out of trouble, not in. If you're planning to snowbird, and stick to campgrounds, you don't need it, and save your money.

Converting a van. The fruits of my labor, which you can see at the top of the page, was done on a standard-length one-ton Econoline van. It worked out very well, and proved to be acceptable for a single person, travelling alone. The problem with a van conversion, however, is that one person fits beautifully, but only one. Two's a crowd, and three is absolutely impossible. Even a small pet like a cat is impractical. It's just big enough for you and you alone. And that's it. Entertaining is a problem, and I found the only way to do it was outdoors, with a portable table and some folding chairs I kept with me. An additional problem with vans is that converting them is very labor intensive - the walls are all curved, which means that cabinetry has to be fitted carefully, a piece at a time, and it took a lot of unnecessary time and patience, and a lot of unnecessary material (15 sheets of Baltic birch went into mine) to put all the cabinetry and furniture in place. The results were quite satisfactory, but unnecessarily heavy.

U-haul Boxes and Cube Vans. I'm now feeling that if I had to do it over, the ideal conversion platform is a "cube van" or 11 to 19 foot U-haul truck you can have mechanically refurbished. If you buy one used, have the transmission, rear-axle and engine all looked at; be sure to replace all axle bearings, hoses and belts at a bare minimum. Personally, I very much admire the U-haul box because it has a cabover that allows considerable inside storage or a bed area that doesn't take up very valuable storage space, and they're not any taller than you actually need - an important consideration in keeping the center of gravity low. When you're done converting the box, take it to a body shop and have it painted, including the corners. You want to lose the "recycled U-haul look" which will keep you out of a lot of campgrounds. U-haul boxes are easy to get - most large cities have a U-haul sales lot — and they're easy to convert. They'll fit on any cab and rails that has straight rails.

School Buses. Used school-buses are very popular with the full-timer conversion crowd, mostly because they are cheap and easy to convert. The problem with them is that they're very obvious to the public as a cheap, easy conversion, and suffer from that stigma. Almost no RV parks and relatively few private campgrounds will take them. So I don't recommend them except strictly for boondocking. Also, when you acquire a school-bus, it's going to be thoroughly worn out, so you're going to have to spend big bucks getting the engine replaced, the transmission, universals and differential overhauled, bearings, brakes, radiator, alternator, vacuum pump, and everything else fixed up or replaced. By the time you're done, you could have gotten a decent cab-and-rails and replaced the bed with a U-haul box - and you'd end up with a much sturdier and more practical motor home when you're done. Also, most school buses are large enough to require a commercial driver's license. I've seen only one school bus conversion I really liked - the owner had taken out all the passenger windows and had raised the roof by 18" (it had been a grade-school bus), and then had given the whole thing a custom paint job. It looked like a custom motor coach, and he told me he could take it to any campground and get in, as it clearly looked like a custom motor coach.

Bread and bakery trucks. Forget them. I hear this one mentioned from time to time, as the shape is great, and the space utilization is excellent, and have seen a few done, but they suffer from one crucial disadvantage. They have very poor payload ratings. They're built to carry light bulky loads (bread), and your load won't be light. The payload capacity of a bread truck is typically less than 1300 pounds, and I guarantee you'll eat that up quickly in carpet, cabinetry, furniture, appliances, tanks, fuel, water, personal property, etc.
The first consideration about building your own must be truck engineering. It's vital, because if you do it wrong, you're liable in an accident regardless of who caused it, if a cop with an attitude problem directs you to a weigh station, you can find yourself getting impounded and not having access to your home, and worst of all, you can find it difficult and dangerous to handle on the road.

Basically, truck engineering means that you need to ensure that the chassis is capable of handling all the weight you'll be putting on it, that the brakes are hefty enough to stop it on a long downhill grade without burning up, the weight (center of mass) is as low to the ground as possible, and evenly distributed as possible, etc. It sounds complicated, but it's really quite simple.

First, check the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) of the truck. It should be listed on a nameplate on the doorframe of the driver's door. The GVWR number is the total weight you're allowed, including the truck itself with the full conversion, the U-haul box, the appliances, cabinets, all fuel, food, supplies, clothes, bedding, passengers and/or dog. In other words, it's the total weight, ready to drive down the road, that the chassis is capable of handling. If/when you ever pull onto a scale, the weight shown on the scale will be compared to the GVWR, and if the GVWR is exceeded by the weight, you're illegal and your vehicle will not be allowed on the road until you've reduced the weight to below the GVWR.

To know how much weight you can add to the basic cab-and-rails, subtract the GVW figure on the nameplate (Gross Vehicle Weight — that's the raw, unconverted weight of the vehicle) from the GVWR. The difference is payload — how much weight you can add in your conversion. In the process, you should work hard to keep the weight distribution as even side-to-side as possible, as far forward as possible and as low to the ground as possible. Figure that you'll add about one to two tons of conversion materials, supplies and people to the weight of the conversion, plus the weight of the box.

The weight adds up fast — my little van has 15 sheets of Baltic birch plywood in the cabinets at about 50 pounds per sheet, about 400 pounds of carpet and padding, a 52 gallon water tank (at 8.3 pounds per gallon, that's 431 pounds of water) a 20 gallon holding tank (166 pounds), a 30 gallon propane tank, when full, weighing a couple of hundred pounds, etc. You can see why I chose a one-ton van - and ran it right up to the GVWR.

It is important to keep the center of gravity as far forward, close to the center and as low as possible. This will help in vehicle handling - very important on windy mountain roads. One way to keep the center of gravity low is to mount the holding tank(s), potable water tank, the propane tank(s), some storage bins, and auxiliary batteries outside the box, under the floor.

The basic conversion

You can actually buy a used box from U-haul (visit their web site and click on the truck sales link) and mount it on your own cab-and-rails.

It will come uninsulated, and with a big door on the back you'll want to remove and close in. Consider a picture window (use only tempered or auto glass in your conversion) in the back and front - it helps in driving. You'll want to place the door to the living space on the passenger side - so you don't have to step into the street when you're parked in an urban area. For insulation, you can firit out with 1" firring strips, and use a 3" fiberglass bat with no vapor barrier. You'll want that much so it will be packed tight when the inside wall material is installed. That way, it won't come loose and fall to the bottom of the walls once it is bounced around on the road for a while. It also helps to paint the insulation space with yellow carpet glue before installing the bat. This will helps keep the fiberglass in place. Do not even consider the use of urethane foam insulation, even though it offers much better R-value. Any closed-cell foam will squeak and rattle while you're traveling, and will be very noisy as a result. For the inside walls, I used 1/8" tempered masonite, and glued a very lightweight carpet over the top to give in a pleasant feel to the touch and to minimize noise. The result was a very quiet ride and pleasant living space.

For the cabinets, I used 1/2" (actually 12mm) Baltic birch, which at the time was imported from the USSR (I used to joke about my Communist cabinets). The reason for the Baltic birch is that it is relatively inexpensive, and is vastly better quality than even the best cabinet grade plywood made in the U.S. It has almost no voids and very few footballs. You can get it from wholesale lumber companies that cater to cabinet shops. Don't use particle board of any kind. It isn't sturdy enough to stand up to road vibration, and will quickly fall apart, and has a really lousy weight-to-strength ratio. It also slowly exudes large amounts of formaldehyde (used in the glue that bonds the particles together), which can be toxic when you're sleeping right next to it in a confined space for months at a time.

For flooring, I laid down a 1/2" fiberglass duct board (available from heating contractors). I then laid down 1/2" plywood, and a closed-cell plasticized urethane foam for the carpet padding, which I glued to the plywood and then glued the carpet to it. It proved to be a good choice — it keeps the cold out and makes the carpet comfortable even in very cold weather.

It's very important to keep the living space tightly closed up, with all penetrations for plumbing and wiring carefully sealed, and all windows and doors tightly fitting. The reason is rodents, particularly mice and rats. A mouse can get through a hole only an eight of an inch wide and an inch across, because it can actually articulate its skull and ribs to squeeze through a tight space. A fully grown rat needs only a quarter inch by 1 1/2 inch hole. I guarantee you'll hear them scurrying around in your living space if you don't take great care to keep them out. Even if you do, you'll hear them scurrying around in the truck frame occasionally. But it's nice to know you won't have them in your living space.

Be sure to plan your conversion so that basic appliances (the toilet, water heater, stove and fridge) can be removed for repair if necessary. That should be obvious, but it's easy to paint yourself into a corner on that one. I speak from experience.

Plumbing, heating and electrical

Plumbing should be done with materials designed for RVs, such as polybutylene pipe. I made the mistake of plumbing with reinforced vinyl hose, and regretted it, because it cold-flows, and the joints tend to come loose and start leaking over time. It's also hard to find small hose clamps that are of good enough quality to sustain the tightening force required to keep it from leaking.

I used a flash heater for my hot water. They are very compact, which I needed in my installation, but they have to be manually started before taking a shower, and you'll waste some water getting hot water to the showerhead. To minimize water wastage, place the heater as close to the shower valves as possible. Mostly, the problem with flash heaters is that they can be hard to light, and sometimes go out during the shower, leaving you wet and soaped up but with nothing but cold rinse water. Not pleasant. I recommend a 5-10 gallon RV tank heater if you have room for it.

Don't try to do a full-size kitchen sink. A wet-bar sink and faucet proved quite adequate for me, even washing dishes by hand.

Use a "demand" pump that will switch off when it's up to pressure. Make sure that the model you buy has a repair kit available, and keep a repair kit as a part of your spares. Put a power switch on the wiring to the water pump. You'll want to be able to turn the pump off if there's a plumbing leak or the pump isn't holding pressure.

When installing the holding tank, you'll want to run a vent pipe directly from the holding tank to the roof. Don't tee off of another drain pipe. Use an approved RV holding tank roof vent. Installing a vent pipe in this manner will suppress odors better than anything else you can do.

There are a wide range of heaters available, the most pleasant being the forced air furnace. The problem with forced air is that it sucks batteries down big-time, and unless you have lots of battery capacity, it will flatten your battery in an evening. They're also noisy and generate a lot of interference on your TV and radio.

They have the advantage of relatively even heating and the combustion gases are discharged to the outside. The trick to installing a forced-air furnace is to ensure that it has unrestricted return air from nowhere near the hot-air outlet. Otherwise it will cycle on it's limit switch, which is very dangerous, as failure of the limit switch will lead to a fire. If you notice the fan running a lot without the firebox being on, it's cycling on the limit switch and you need deal urgently with the cycling problem.

The alternative is catalytic heaters. The problem with catalytic heaters is that they're very dangerous. They generate carbon monoxide and have killed plenty of people as a result of bad installations or abusive use. Almost every year in the LTVA's where I wintered over, someone was asphyxiated as the result of a catalytic heater. But they're efficient, quiet, and don't generate interference to the TV set or the radio.

For the electrical system, I cannot recommend strongly enough that you stay away from generators. They're noisy, dangerous (a serious fire hazard), inconvenient, burn lots of fuel, require maintenance, make enemies of your neighbors, and they're unreliable. Use solar panels and batteries instead. They're automatic, maintenance free, safe, and when properly designed, will generate all the power you need, which is available anytime you need it. You never need to get out in a rainstorm and prime the carburetor of a recalcitrant solar panel. Air conditioning is the only argument for a generator, and frankly, I figured that I'd rather live with the heat than the noise.

Don't even consider using your engine battery for power. I can guarantee that you'll get in trouble if you do, and the deep discharges will quickly ruin vehicle batteries that aren't designed for such service. Use a separate battery system for your living power. As for batteries, I strongly recommend that you use 6-volt deep-cycle golf-cart batteries, connected in series rather than 12-volt marine batteries connected in parallel. Doing so will exercise both batteries equally, and the result will be better capacity and longer life. I had a lot of battery trouble until I figured this out. After I went to 6 volt golf-cart batteries connected in series, I never changed a battery again. I used 200 ampere-hour batteries, and found it was plenty of capacity for my needs. Only once did I ever run out of power and that was during a three-week spell of rainy weather, during which I had never started up my engine. An automotive electrician can install a shunt switch to enable you to charge the batteries off of your alternator if you would like that ability.

If you do use solar panels, do not buy "self regulating" panels. They don't work at all on cloudy days and very poorly in late afternoon or early morning. Rather, use regular panels with an automatic electronic regulator. The combination will cost you a little more, but it will be a lot more effective at keeping your batteries up. If you have six to ten amps of charging capacity, I guarantee that you'll never lack for power to charge your batteries fully during the day. If you need 110 volts A.C., which can be handy, you can install a demand-operated inverter to supply it. Models are available up to 2,000 watts.

Don't try to use a microwave unless you have "shore" power; they don't run very well off of generators or inverters, and take as long to cook as a regular oven when run that way. And they're terrible power hogs - they'll run your batteries down in minutes. For your TV and stereo, get 12 volt DC versions, as they're much, much easier on your batteries than the 110 volt version running on an inverter. Television receivers that run on DC are available in models up to 13 inches. They're available with built-in videocassette players, too.

Try to avoid the use of "automatic lighting" ranges. These devices draw far more power from your battery than they should, and are a serious drain on your batteries. It's better to keep a welder's torch lighter handy to start the range and avoid all the battery drain associated with what I consider to be bad design of automatic lighters in ovens and stovetops.

Food storage considerations

I guarantee that your food storage area will become infested with flour weevils and possibly other insects as well, which, despite health regulations, are ubiquitous in grocery stores, particularly in warm winter areas. The best way to minimize the effects of the infestation are to keep all dry foodstuffs in tightly covered plastic containers, where the weevils can't get to them. I used plastic 1/2 gallon milk jugs for this purpose, because they're square and are therefore space efficient, and they're lightweight and freely available, so I designed my storage drawers around them. I filled them using a modified aluminum funnel, while still parked in the grocery store parking lot. I then disposed of the packaging material immediately. If something you buy from the store comes complete with live-in guests (and that will happen occasionally), they'll at least be confined to that one jug. If they appear in one of your jugs, throw out the jug and don't try to clean and re-use it. In this way, I kept weevils out of my van for several years, and when they finally did appear, they rarely got into anything. Forget pesticides; this is a very small living space, and spraying anything will expose you to unacceptable levels of the stuff. The best way to keep bugs down is to keep a very clean house; especially keep your food cabinet drawers and food preparation area clean. This is not too hard to do when you can do a quick cleanup in twenty minutes, and a thorough spring cleaning will take only about two hours.

General considerations

Diesel or gasoline? I picked diesel, and ended up regretting it. What I found was that although my range was much greater, I needed the range, because many small towns don't have diesel fuel or shops where diesel engines can be serviced. In small towns, diesel fuel is often considerably more expensive than gasoline because there's often only one pump in town. Even in larger towns with many pumps, diesel is normally close to the same price as gasoline, and while your fuel economy is much better, what you save in fuel, you'll spend in maintenance. You cannot go more than 2500 miles at most between oil changes in a diesel engine; if you do, you'll quickly ruin the engine. And when it's time for an oil change, it's a $100 hit. The engine oil is more expensive, the fuel and oil and air filters all have to be changed every time you do an oil change, and they're all more expensive than for gas engines. You also have to worry about keeping the water separator drained. Fail to do all of those things, and you'll ruin a $10,000 engine quite quickly. A tune-up in a diesel engine is also very expensive. It means replacing the injector pump and the injectors — a $1500-$2000 hit. Diesel engines are also harder to start in cold weather and at high altitudes. They're best suited to constant highway travel, and that's not what you'll probably be doing. So learn from my mistake - stick with gasoline unless you're going to be constantly on the move and are planning a really big motor home conversion or towing a trailer or car.

Allow about $5-10,000 for the cost of building a full-blown conversion in addition to the vehicle and box cost, and allow about three months if you're working on it full-time.

Register your vehicle as an RV. This way you avoid having to pull onto weigh scales every time you pass one, which can not only be an incredible nuisance, but will subject you to all kinds of scrutiny from law enforcement, which generally takes a dim view of full-timing (could it be envy?), and registration for RV's is usually cheaper than for trucks of equivalent size. So make every effort to qualify as an RV when you register. In fact, in many states, if it qualifies as an RV it must be registered as one. Check with the DMV where you're going to register to find out what their requirements are.

To qualify to register your conversion as an RV, it must (in most states) have a permanently fixed toilet and holding tank and a permanently attached potable water tank. To register it as an RV and park it in many trailer parks, it will require a minimum of a permanently attached RV toilet (no PortaPotti's) and a minimum holding tank of ten gallons.

I recommend the very largest holding tank you can fit, as it makes that unpleasant trip to the dump station less frequent. Figure a bare minimum of 20 gallons per person. Separate tanks for gray (shower and kitchen drains) and black water (toilet sewage) are helpful in some situations. In many boondock areas, discharging gray water into the ground is legal, while discharging black water is never legal. Having separate tanks can often save a trip to the dump station.

Install the largest refrigerator you can; it makes trips into town for groceries less frequent, too. If you're going to have a companion as well as kids with you, the biggest standard RV refrigerator will be too small. You might want to consider installing two if you have the room.

Plan adequate propane tank capacity. Your refrigerator and your heating will be about equal in being the biggest drain on your propane supply, so plan your propane capacity accordingly. In my small van conversion, with one person, I used about 8 gallons of propane a week for both heating and refrigeration. Surprisingly enough, cooking doesn't use enough to tell about — you don't need to factor it in.

If you try to take your conversion to an RV park, be prepared for discrimination. It's quite legal for RV park owners to not rent to you if you're in a home-built conversion and many (read: most) will not allow you in or will confine you to the crummiest, most distant and out of the way spots in the park. If you're planning to spend time in campgrounds or RV parks, it's best to invest in a paint job once you're done with the conversion, as it will make the vehicle look a lot sharper, and will keep the objections to a minimum - particularly if you can add some artsy flair to the paint job and make it look like a professional conversion. I've even seen well-done home-built conversions with fake logos and model names on them masquerading as manufactured RV's.

If you're planning to boondock primarily, consider a four-wheel drive conversion. It will cost $8-10,000, but it can be well worth it. It was the best single investment I made — and got me out of trouble many, many times. If you do have a 4WD conversion installed, don't use it for getting places, use it only for getting out of being stuck. There's no 'stuck' like a four wheel drive 'stuck,' and it can require a special high-traction tow truck — which can be very expensive.

When you're finally ready for the road, here are some important tips:

Most of the time you will have your mail sent to general delivery at the nearest P.O. to where you will be. Postal regulations stipulate that general delivery mail is supposed to be held for 30 days before being returned, but it's been my experience that many, even most, rural and small town post offices just simply ignore that regulation and return it after a week or so. Two weeks if you're lucky. So plan your travels and trips to town accordingly - allow 4-7 days to for mail to come from your forwarding service to your general delivery address. Be aware that not all urban P.O.'s offer general delivery service. If you're in Las Vegas, for example, you'll have to go to the downtown post office where parking is difficult, and wait in a very long line. Also, it's up to the local postmaster to decide how long you can take mail from general delivery. Some post offices will require you to rent a box if you're taking mail longer than a month. So again, know the rules if you're going to be there awhile, or you could get into trouble. Let your forwarder know a week ahead when you're changing addresses.

Truck scales. You're not a truck, but to highway patrols, you look like one if you're in your own conversion. Technically, in most states, you're not required to weigh if you're registered as an RV, but don't be surprised of a highway patrol stops you and directs you to a scale. If you're not registered as an RV, you'd better hit the scales! And you'd better be under the weight limit!

Keep wheel chocks and leveling blocks with you. You need to be dead-nuts level for your refrigerator to work, and you'll find that camp sites are never level. If you haven't installed some means of leveling your RV, you'll need to run the wheels up on blocks to get it level. Wood seldom works well; it quickly splits out. I recommend you use some of the purpose-made blocks and chocks you can acquire from Camping World.

To keep the odors from the holding tank to a minimum, flush about 1/2 cup of Pine-Sol for each 10 gallons of holding tank capacity, full strength, into each holding tank after you've emptied and rinsed the tank. It's much cheaper than the odor control stuff sold in the RV supply stores, and it works better. Don't use any of the substitute brands; it's the pine oil that does the magic, and few of the substitute brands have anywhere near as much pine oil in them as the Pine Sol brand does. Compare the labels for pine oil content. Never use a formaldehyde-based odor control agent; not only is it a health hazard for you, but it will rot out the seals in your holding tank dump valve. Chlorine-based products, such as bleach, not only don't work well, but they'll rot out your dump valve seals in a hurry.

For toilet paper, use the "Marina" brand. It is commonly available in rural groceries, because it is designed to quickly disintegrate in septic tanks. Works just as well in a holding tank as that ridiculously expensive RV stuff, and is much cheaper. It won't wad up in your holding tank and clog the drain like regular toilet paper will. When you find it, stock up with several four-packs.

Never use your stove for heating. Propane stoves, as clean as they burn, still put out significant quantities of carbon monoxide that can kill you, if you let the stove run overnight. Carbon monoxide is odorless, tasteless, and produces no symptoms of toxicity until the levels are dangerously high and you won't know you're being poisoned until you start feeling very sleepy inappropriately.

Carry spares with you, including a complete set of good tools. A propane pressure regulator, along with everything you need to change it safely and properly, is something I guarantee you'll need. They are very unreliable because they get plugged up with sulfur dissolved in the propane, and I found myself changing them four times in the six years I lived on the road. A spare water pump repair kit is useful as well; I used two. Keep fuses and spare lightbulbs with you. It might be useful to have a spare set of fan belts, too. A tube of silicone rubber is something you'll use often. Keep some duct tape, as it's useful for all kinds of things, including radiator hose leaks. I found a small roll of electric fence wire to be very useful for all kinds of small repair jobs. The old saw about Scotch tape and bailing wire really has a lot of resonance on the road when you're faced with an emergency repair and are a long way from a hardware store or auto repair shop.

Do an inventory before you plan a trip to town. It helps to clean out the fridge, as well, so that you can make sure you're not buying something you already have plenty of, and it makes sure you're not going to miss something you need. By cleaning out your fridge, you'll make sure there's enough room for the food you buy, and you won't be adding to your trash unnecessarily in camp.

Trash management and disposal requires planning ahead. I removed as much food from it's packaging as possible before leaving the grocery store parking lot, and put it in my own permanent containers. This cuts down remarkably on the amount of trash you'll generate during the week. Often a week's worth of trash for me would be a single plastic grocery bag full. Be aware that most cities and towns have ordinances against putting your trash in a Dumpster or trash can where you don't have permission for use, and some enforce the prohibition vigorously. The best place to get rid of your trash is a roadside barrel if you can find one, but if not, you may have to use the Dumpster at the grocery store where you're shopping. If you do, it's best to ask the grocery store manager if you can use their Dumpster. I've always explained that I only have a couple of grocery bags of trash, but can't dispose of it anywhere else, while standing next to my full grocery cart. Doing that, I've never had a store manager refuse me. Before disposing of your trash, make sure you do not have any bank statements, credit card statements, voided checks or deposit slips or any other financial information traceable to you in it. If you do, tear it up in small pieces or use a shredder on it. Identity theft is a very serious problem and growing worse, so protect yourself.

Make sure someone knows where you're heading. If you're traveling alone, this is especially important in the event you don't show — they'll at least know where to start looking if you don't show.

Meticulous vehicle maintenance is absolutely crucial. Don't neglect it. If you take care of your RV, it will take care of you, and generally give you adequate warning when something is going wrong (only once did I ever have to call for a tow). So when you notice something in the drive train or under the hood that needs attention, don't wait till you have to fix it; by then it may leave you stranded. Arrange for getting it fixed on your very next trip to town.

When boondocking or in primitive campgrounds, avoid rodent nests. Check the immediate area for large accumulations of leaf litter in a shrub or large collections of branches on the ground or in shrubs. Where ground squirrels are common, look for large numbers of rodent burrows in a small area especially in grass. Rodents, particularly the various western packrats, are very destructive of vehicle wiring harnesses, fan belts and radiator hoses. Squirrels and chipmunks are seldom a problem unless you're parked for quite a while, but mice and packrats will come after you in the first night if they're hungry. Rabbits will start checking out your engine compartment after a week or so of being in one spot. Rats in rural areas are common but are seldom a problem unless you happen to be near a landfill or are in an established campground.

For toilet paper, use the "Marina" brand. It is commonly available in rural groceries, because it is designed to quickly disintegrate in septic tanks. Works just as well in a holding tank as that ridiculously expensive RV stuff, and is much cheaper. It won't wad up in your holding tank and clog the drain like regular toilet paper will. When you find it, stock up with several four-packs.

While in campgrounds, take the time to get to know the fellow camped next to you. He may become your best friend, and he can look after your stuff when you're temporarily out of camp. That can be really helpful.

Don't try to see everything as soon as you can. You've got the rest of your life, so take advantage of that fact. Eventually, if you're like most full-timers, you'll get tired of the uncertainties associated with always trying to see new places, and start returning to some of your favorite campsites.

There is better security in boondocking than in campgrounds. I know this is counterintuitive, but I found it to be really true if you follow my basic rule about boondocking: Ten miles from town, a mile from pavement, away from and out of sight of graded and/or graveled roads. In the six years I was on the road, the few times I felt threatened were when I had ignored that rule. If you abide by it strictly, I can almost guarantee you'll never have a problem.

What about guns? I never carried a gun. And the only incident I ever felt like I wished I'd had one occurred when I was in an established campground in Southern Utah along the Colorado river with at least 15 other people in that same campground that night. In the six years I was on the road, I never encountered another boondocker who felt that a gun had ever helped him out or been useful in a security problem. Guns are a kind of security blanket for a lot of folks, but they're almost never of any practical use. Given the danger that guns pose, you're better off without them, trust me.

Safety during the fall hunting season. Park your RV where it can't be seen from roads, including all jeep tracks. When out hiking, wear bright colors, preferably hunter orange. I kept some neon-orange tee-shirts and jackets for that purpose, along with a neon orange ball cap. Only once did I ever find myself in the line of fire (and I have reason to believe that one incident was deliberate). Stay off of jeep trails while hiking, and away from thickets and dense woods if possible. Being brightly clothed and out in the open in plain sight is the best safety. Be friendly and polite to hunters when you encounter them. If you do that, you'll have more to fear from the wildlife (mostly bears with an attitude problem) than from the people hunting them.

Well, that's about it. If you decide to do it, you'll be in for the time of your life. It'll be an experience you'll cherish, even if you eventually settle down again as I did.

Pretty soon, if you're like I was, you'll find yourself cruising down freeways at 45 miles per hour, because you've got all the time in the world. People passing you at the speed limit will become an annoyance. And going to town is something you thoroughly dread and you'll put off as long as you can, because you just don't like 'civilization' anymore.

When you get to that point, you're a full-timer in soul as well as name. And you'll be joining more than a million of your fellows in an increasingly popular lifestyle. So get out there and enjoy yourself, and when you get around to it, send me an email at webmaster@bidstrup.com. I'd love to hear how you're making out. And if we're in the same area, it might be fun to get together!

Copyright 2002 by Scott Bidstrup. Used by permission

© 2009 MSNBC Interactive. Reprints
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33618582...logy_and_money

Ambros · #2 11-04-2009, 02:21 PM

Not going to lie if i had the money to buy a full size motorhome/bus type vehicle...i would probably live in it instead of my house...

***Dennis Olson*** · #3 11-04-2009, 02:24 PM

I've been shopping around. If you look carefully, you can find a VERY nice 8 year old (or so) 38' motorhome with moderate miles for under $12-15k.

vessie · #4 11-04-2009, 02:32 PM

I've been constantly praying that you find an really nice RV from some DGI who want's to unload their 'toys' quickly and at a sacrifice sale to you Dennis.

We see this type of stuff in the car business all the time. I'll ask my hubby if they have some RV's at one of the auctions in your area or like over at the Minneapolis Auto Auction or any other ideas on where you might look for a really good deal. Do you think someone might have one for sale in Auto Trader? Have you checked with some of the RV dealers in your area about trade-ins? Many old folks who have the money just like to 'trade up' and have taken good care of their older RV's. And many dealers are supersticious about keeping old stock on their lots so if a trade-in is stuck on their lot for more than 60-90 days, they want to off load it. Just a thought there...

I think it's a sound idea that you have there for you and the kids and you won't have to deal with landlords, moving costs and such if you find a job in an aread that is far away from where you live now.

I even mentioned this idea to LadyK too. I haven't heard from her but am worried for her and her kittys. V

Edited to add... I see a ton of RV's out here on the road in western Wa. and at some of the RV dealer lots I drive by on I-5 in the Federal Way area for instance seem to be absolutely heaving with RV's. Would it be worth your while if you found a good one out here and then drove it back to your home and have someone babysit the pups while your gone?

Ambros · #5 11-04-2009, 02:33 PM

Yeah i was thinking the 40 foot range... I've been hard pressed to sell my car and one or two of my motorcycles but nothing has happened and the economy isnt helping my push... My grandfather has a 45' bus converted to a mobile home, it was an older round body bus from the 60s or 70s and its set up fairly nice. It doesnt have an engine currently but i bet i could throw something in there that would work, an older detroit or cat comes to mind...Wouldnt be pretty, fast, or up to date electronically but it would serve as a home on the road i guess...heh

alauchlan · #6 11-04-2009, 02:33 PM

Thanks for posting this. Good to have on hand information!

While my wife and I am not in the same position today, that could change in a heartbeat, so I am listening now for solutions that work. Never know when I might have to implement plan B myself...

Allan

Hansa44 · #7 11-04-2009, 02:39 PM

Plus Dennis. You can live off some of your preps. Knowing you, you probably sufficiently ok with them. You will save a fortune doing this.

You can rent a storage area for $75 a month. I have a 10' X 20' and share it with afriend. Comes to $35 a month for me. And you can have it centralized in order to go back and replenish supplies.

Have a friend you can travel with that loves dogs? One you can trust?

I do have one question tho'.

What will happen to TB if you do this motor home route?

***Dennis Olson*** · #8 11-04-2009, 02:43 PM

I don't physically host the servers, so living in an RV for me wouldn't have any effect.

vessie · #9 11-04-2009, 02:43 PM

I just found this googling around. It might be something that could help you... V http://www.rvtraderonline.com/

Herbmountain · #10 11-04-2009, 02:44 PM

We have a 29ft toy hauler and we were thinking the same thing. But when we retire. You can find spots to park for the night for as little as 25-35 dollars a night. We inquired how much for a month and most were around 300-400 a month. This was in Nevada. Full hook up too. Just the two of us fit nicely in our trailer. And it is a kick. We meet all kinds of really nice people on the road who have the same idea. I do see lots of people in our town dumping very nice trailers.

Old Reliable · #11 11-04-2009, 02:58 PM

Dennis there are over 2 million people living fulltime in all types of RV.

Spend some time looking and reading about full timing RV’s.

Escapees Discussion Forum

http://www.rvnetwork.com/

I and my wife turn 62 next year and we are planning on spend about 7 or 8 month on the road and most or this time will not be spent in campgrounds we will be boondocking .

Check it out and good luck.

shane · #12 11-04-2009, 02:59 PM

I've got a dozen friends, most single, though not all, some retired, though not all, who live full time on their boats, some for over a decade.

Mostly sailboats, but a few cruisers, too. They typically range from 25' to 45'.

Most have cars, though some use motorcycles or bikes. Most supplement diet with fish and crabs they catch off the back of their boats.

They are all paying less than $150 a month for their boat slip, including water and electricity that is non metered. AC runs continuously in summer, and heater, too, as needed in winter.

Some of their boats were picked up dirt cheap, a few for under $1000, and distress sales are becoming ever more common.

Some take off on their boats for the weekend or a week or a season, others occasionally move up or down the coast more permanently for work or just a change of scenery.

It's relatively cheap here along the Texas 'RedNeck Riviera' coast, as much higher marina monthly slip fee's are often seen elsewhere.

Got God, Grub, Guns & Gold?
Panic Early, Beat the Rush!

- Shane

vessie · #13 11-04-2009, 03:01 PM

Hey that's neat Old Reliable. Do you think someone on that forum might need to unload an RV or knows someone in desparate need of getting rid of one? Say some elderly person too old to drive anymore? I can imagine some old members who might need to end that lifestyle but are still members of that forum. You never know... V

Hfcomms · #14 11-04-2009, 03:07 PM

I'm seriously considering that myself for backup. Like Dennis I'm single but with only one GSD. My property and little cabin are paid for so I don't have to worry about being thrown on the street for failing to make a mortgage payment. I've been looking for a couple of reasons, not the least of which living in a forest basically a wildfire can burn up everything and all your preps in an instant. I've got a class "c" in mind that is loaded up and ready to go at a moments notice. A bug out vehicle if you will although I'm already living at the bug out. The other reason is if the primary cabin is damage due to fire or a tree falling on it then you have a place to stay instead of pitching a tent. Or if one of your long lost friends/relatives show up when TSHTF you have a place to put them. As things get tighter and tighter more people are putting their toys up for sale. I think if they were smart they would hang on to their trailers and motor homes though.

Double_A · #15 11-04-2009, 03:15 PM

I see that out here.

Not enough money to rent, but enough to get by when you own your RV.

We;ve discussed this before here and there are great tips.

Tips like,

Periodically check into a KOA and dump your tanks

Join a gym, work out and use their shower everyday.

MaureenO · #16 11-04-2009, 03:16 PM

With this being the home of the "American Dream," it seems for some to have turned to the American nightmare.

Having said that, I have to keep in mind the Oklahoma Dustbowl and the Great Depression and the strength of spirit those people had to have to survive it.

Maureen

Ironhand · #17 11-04-2009, 03:16 PM

"When Dave Dudley lost his plum job as a vice president of a software company, he knew it wouldn’t be long before his house mortgage became unmanageable. So he changed his address — to Anywhere, U.S.A."

Didn't Dave Dudley write "Six Days on the Road?" Prophetic?

Dennis - I'm currently looking into an item that might work for you. I'll let you know if it turns out to be something. I know the people well and if the money is right it could be sweet.

Irish · #18 11-04-2009, 03:23 PM

One state they failed to mention for registering in was SD. There are forwarding services there that cater to the mobile crowd. The pluses for Texas and SD are the NO state income tax. That helps the budget immensely.

DH & I are seriously thinking about going full-time. Our biggest problem is that we do love being here on the farm during the summers, so we shall see in the next few months what we are going to do.

night driver · #19 11-04-2009, 03:26 PM

http://www.escapees.com/

MORE than you want to know about full timing....they are a WEALTH of info.....

They cover the issues of where you actually RESIDE VS WHERE YOU DOMICILE....

has to do with where you vote and pay taxes....

dimensiondancer · #20 11-04-2009, 03:27 PM

I've have had a secret crazy desire for years to live on the road in a RV. I told DH when we got married 15 years ago that I didn't need a house, that I could live in the middle of a desert in a silver trailer as long as I had him to love.

Okay, too mushy,

but I find it romantic.

Life has become too complicated with all the modern devices, needs and distractions. RV living would cut those way down.

NoName · #21 11-04-2009, 03:33 PM

Our neighbors retired last year and bought a 37ft Dolfin, they travel in it and "live" in a 40ft 5th wheel at a local park, put their home up for sale last month and sold all their "big" possessions (we lucked out on the home offices). DW and I hope to be able to be part timers in a few years, would love to travel and see what's left of the US if any at all by that time.

nomifyle · #22 11-04-2009, 03:35 PM

DH and I did it, in a 22' tag along with 3 cats, for six months. DH was working out of state. If he had not gotten hurt on the job we would have continued the RV thing, traveling with the construction trade. We did want something larger though, 22' is pretty small. Now we have a 32' tag along that we lived in for over a year after Katrina. We put stuff in storage and just loaded up the trucks when we moved.

Praying for ya.

Judy

johnnymac · #23 11-04-2009, 03:37 PM

Lost his plum VP job and within six months he had to move? And his mortgage, insurance and utilities were only 3k a month. Something wrong with those numbers. Wonder what he did with his house in that short of time? There is more to that story..

I lived in my 84 Blazer in 1990 for a few months. Laid down the back seat, setup a bed in the back. Parked at work in the garage. Had a PO box for mail (no bills though!). Went to the gym every morning and worked out and showered. Had a cell phone for a phone, but never turned it on at at 1.00 a minute!

Had all my clothes I car and put my other stuff in storage.

I saved enough money to pay rent up front on a new apartment for six months. That gave me the breathing space I needed.

This worked for me because I was single. If I had kids I could not do it. Way to tramatic and they would miss too much kid-free people would not understand.

***Dennis Olson*** · #24 11-04-2009, 03:41 PM

Thanks Ironhand! I'll be hoping to hear from you...

BoatGuy · #25 11-04-2009, 03:43 PM

DO, I don't know your financial situation.. But, if you're in the mood for a low-priced home that can be easily moved, I was looking at the Casita (made in Rice, TX) or the Scamp (made in your neck of the woods. Both are made very well. Personally, I like being able to separate myself from the house, and being made of fiberglass, both can be pulled with a 6 cylinder truck or car. Both have excellent resale value (if the country ever gets its stuff together). Just a thought... Scamp makes a 5th wheel that is very light for pulling. So does Casita. I was looking at both when I was thinking of just living at the dock...

Maher · #26 11-04-2009, 04:08 PM

Quote:

DW and I hope to be able to be part timers in a few years, would love to travel and see what's left of the US if any at all by that time.

Not me! I don't want to travel. I'm more inclined to find a cave out in some forsaken wasteland. Or, if I had a mobile home (boat or vehicle), I'd find some secure little nook where I could put my back against the wall and hold off all comers. I'm a BIG TIME loner by disposition. I could live anywhere and in anything (My wife can't/won't!).

Holistic Granny · #27 11-04-2009, 06:04 PM

Dennis,
Here in Canada we have www.repo.com - -lots of folks go there and pick up quality things cheap. I think if you google it there is a way you can get repo sites all over N. America. May be worth a try.

Milk-maid · #28 11-04-2009, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hfcomms

... I've been looking for a couple of reasons, not the least of which living in a forest basically a wildfire can burn up everything and all your preps in an instant...

Some years ago when California had those big fires, I remember reading where a guy came home from a trip in his RV to find that his home and everything had burned up. His RV was all he had left. What a saving grace. Not a bad idea at all.

MM

NancyJo · #29 11-04-2009, 06:21 PM

Sorry Dennis but this is not your calling. I mayhap be a new commer but I can't see you living in a trailer down by the river. Get out of your funk, right now!!

lectrickitty · #30 11-04-2009, 06:46 PM

My parents weren't full timers, they were mostly snow-birds. They owned a membership in Coast to Coast. They could stay in parks all over the country for a little of nothing (I think it was $1 or $2 a night if they didn't hook up to electric, and about $7 a night if they did). A yearly membership was around $75 which includes a catalog of park listings. If you're a full timer, it's well worth having. I've heard that you have to be careful where you buy a membership cause prices vary for the same benefits.

They would spend most of the summer in Branson, then go to Brownsville, Texas for the winter. They spent a few winters in Phoenix, a few in Apple Valley, but they finally settled on Texas cause they liked it best. For some reason (unknown to me) they never went east, always west or south.

They never did sell their house. They liked having it to go "home" to for holidays with extended family.

For me, I'd like to own a spot in the south for winter and in the north for summer. That would give me a place to plant a garden, and guarantee that I'd always have somewhere to park in case the rental lots filled up before I arrived. Mom & Dad had been to the parks so many times that they had learned to have their reservations made months in advance and they paid by the year to assure that they always had a really great spot to park. If you show up in the popular spots to late, you're SOL for a parking spot.

vessie · #31 11-04-2009, 07:16 PM

That site is so cool Lectrickitty and let me tell you why.

When I clicked on the link to Coast to Coast, I thought to my self, "Alot of these type of membership clubs have a health insurance at group rates which is really good for someone who has not much money to spare least of all for health insurance" so I looked at what this club had to offer and yep there it is, if you join up as a member, one of the perks is getting in on a group rate health insurance. V

Edited to add... With the price of health insurance these days especially if your not working and not on a business's plan, you pretty much are out of luck. I grew up within the health care field so I'm always curious about costs and such. I use Costco's health insurance plan for my business but also I'm a member of the Wa. State Independant Auto Dealers Assoc. and last year, they got a group health insurance plan with Group Health that is almost as cheap in cost to me And as comprehensive as the one Costco offers for us business owners. For a private plan for someone out of work, there is most likely no way they could afford the price that would be quoted to them. Businesses get better cheaper rates.

So, if you find yourself living in an RV, can't afford an expensive private health insurance plan, many many of these type of clubs do offer health insurance at a cheap group rate and it's worth checking into that.

DrJerry · #32 11-04-2009, 07:31 PM

When my mother and stepdad retired they sold just about everything, bought an Airstream trailer and a Chevy pickup. I got postcards from all sorts of places.

China Connection · #33 11-04-2009, 08:10 PM

Shipping containers provide home in a box
It just might be the next hot thing. A steel building is functional, sturdy and — if you can like it simple enough — quite a bit cheaper than a traditional house.

By Melinda Fulmer of MSN Real Estate

Shipping containers provide home in a box (© Peter DeMaria)

© Peter DeMaria

http://realestate.msn.com/article.as...entid=13107865

Shipping containers, those big metal boxes used to transport the lamps, washing machines and furniture in our houses, are now becoming homes in their own right.

The 40-foot-long and 8-foot-wide containers left empty at ports around the country are being recycled into stylish, eco-friendly housing that's less costly than traditional construction.

The evolution
Initially developed as an experiment for art installations, emergency housing and vacation homes for wealthy modernists, cargo container housing is moving off the fringe and into the mainstream.

"People have begun to think of it as viable instead of weird," says New York architect and artist Adam Kalkin, who began building homes with containers in 2000.

Kalkin and a handful of other architects and builders have begun using the corrugated steel boxes for everything from high-rise apartment homes and coffee shops to senior residences and even luxurious suburban homes.

Indeed, Manhattan Beach, Calif.-based architect Peter DeMaria has launched a home building firm, Logical Homes, that will offer nine different models of container homes on lots around Southern California, an area where he has several other projects built or underway.
What's your home worth?

From the outside, the Logical Homes models, which range from 640 to 3,520 square feet, appear to be mid-century tract homes, their large corrugated boxes covered with special finishes or "skins" and enhanced with custom paint and large windows.

On the inside, they have bamboo floors and energy-efficient appliances. Insulation is provided by recycled denim; an optional ceramic paint helps form a greater sound barrier against the outside world.

Shipping-container homes make the leap from weird to viable

The price tag for all this eco-chic? DeMaria's homes average around $150 to $200 per square foot, compared with about $220 to $250 for much of the traditional building in the area.

Generally, architects say, container homes are about 20% cheaper to build than those made with traditional construction, ranging from $87 a square foot for the most basic container home to about $200, depending on location and finishes.

Thinking inside the box
DeMaria and other architects have embraced the idea of shipping containers largely because of their price. With a surplus of hundreds of thousands of containers sitting vacant on U.S. docks due to the imbalance in trade, used containers sell for $1,000 to $2,500, depending on their size and condition, DeMaria says.

With lumber and steel prices rising, these building blocks are a bargain, and with their 9 1/2-foot height, they have just enough of a clearance to serve as actual rooms, rather than glorified storage sheds.

They also have the advantage of being easier to assemble on site than traditional framed construction. That can speed up the building process on an apartment building by as much as 40%, says David Cross, founder of SG Blocks, a St. Louis container retrofitting firm.

And they are exceptionally sturdy, a selling point in hurricane-riddled Florida and earthquake-prone California. "It's a heavy-gauge, steel-frame house," Cross says.

The tricky part, says St. Louis architect Dan Rosenthal of the Lawrence Group, which designed shipping-container housing for the 2010 Winter Olympics in Whistler, British Columbia, has been finding people to retrofit them. "There have been a lot of them drawn up, but very few have been built," he says.

SG Blocks, which Rosenthal now collaborates with, was founded less than two years ago and is one of the few filling this unusual building niche. It modifies containers into building units or "blocks" at 17 different port locations owned by cargo giant ConGlobal Industries, its container supplier.

Cross says he expects to work on as many as 1,000 containers next year. Some will be used in groups of three or four for single-family homes, or as many as 400 for multistory apartment buildings and condominiums.

Urban pioneers
Sven Pirkl and his wife, Anna, were in the first wave in this country to move into a container house designed by DeMaria.

For Pirkl, a 40-year-old market researcher, containers were a way to bring down the cost of building in expensive Redondo Beach, Calif., and get an eye-catching modern home in the process. "We've had people driving by run into parked cars looking at the house," Pirkl says of the striking glass and steel design.

Pirkl's 3,200-square-foot home still retains the marine-grade plywood floors originally found in the six containers, which serve as bedrooms and bathrooms.

These containers, which make up 70% of the house, are built onto a two-story warehouse space with large glass windows and polished concrete floors. That serves as the main living area. Some of the electrical and plumbing work is exposed and storage was added in modular systems, much like a loft.

The unusual project took some convincing of city officials — three months to get through the plan check — with Pirkl's neighbors having to sign off on their support of the house.

Jeep · #34 11-04-2009, 09:45 PM

Also, a lot of campgrounds (mostly ones run by the county, state, or federal) will let you stay for free, if you work 20hrs a week for the campground the rest of the time is yours to do what you want, this includes electric/sewer/water so really all you have to pay for is the propane you use.

www.camphosts.org is the web site.

Loon · #35 11-04-2009, 10:00 PM

I do not see where you can save that much money living in an RV. They are expensive to drive and gas is inching it's way back up to $3 a gallon. Everything in them is incredibly expensive to replace. I think the one we had the refrigerator was $1200 and that was back in the 80's. Unless you are a mechanic and know how to work on the engines you could go broke and be stranded if something plays out on it on a road trip. Also, unless you own land to park it on you'll be living in Walmart parking lots and who knows when they will end their free camping offer. If you get an older model you can bet you'll be into some heavy repairs before long. It is hard to find buyers for them and the resale value is not good. If you plan on running a generator to power the furnace or air conditioner you're going to use a lot of fuel. If you park it where it's cold you'll have to run it all the time unless you're paying to stay in a campground and hook to their electric. That runs probably $25 or $30 a night ............or three hundred or more a month. You could rent an apartment or cabin.

Some motel owners have fallen on hard times and often will rent units out by the month. Many let you have pets. Sometimes you can even negotiate on the price. There are so many trailer parks out there where you can get a free trailer. Former owners have to pay to have them moved or pay to have them disposed of. You can get units free. I know someone who got a free trailer like that. She has a big dog too. She loves it. The trailer park is in a very upscale area of Novi, Michigan. Her rent runs $400 a month on the lot. It came furnished too. Previous owner signed over the title. He had got a job in Arizona and just left the trailer after packing his clothes.

Consider all your options and where you think you'll be living/working and look around for the best fit for you and your furkids.

inbredhill · #36 11-04-2009, 10:31 PM

If I were to do that. I would learn how to service the RV myself. sometimes you can get a price break if you know the shop owners and help fix your RV yourself.

Now if you just hunker down in one area with the RV and don't move around a lot other than the required monthly or weekly moving of the RV, you can go a lot longer between maintenance intervals.

IdleAire has, on occasion, catered to RV owners. Unfortunately the service is hourly.

meezy · #37 11-05-2009, 12:11 AM

Hubby and I are considering that, when he retires. I don't plan to really "retire" - I love what I do - but I can work anywhere!

We are RV'ers now (26' TT) and will probably end up buying a tiny condo for a home base, unless one of our kids feels generous about sharing their address with us.

rafter · #38 11-05-2009, 08:25 AM

I've lived in an rv off and on for years. If you are in an area that if over your head as far as cost of living high housing cost...then its the way to go.

These people that are homeless and traveling around aren't living in real life they are on vacation.

Rv's are good if you are relocating and planning on working til you can find something else to live in unless you end up somewhere that again is a high cost of housing area.

BUT, if you are just planning on getting one and traveling the country on a shoe string (unemployment) you are asking for trouble.

The gas right now is higher than it was a year ago when oil was way over $100.....it will go higher. How far can you drive on $4 gas or higher? If it breaks down along the side of the road, you better have a junk of change to pay for it to be fixed or you are dead in the water.

After traveling in fear of the above, and living in one because that was all I could afford, I went with what Maher said....bought in a cheap area that I could afford...where I can have a garden and some roots, and a home. I don't owe anybody, and even though it might not be where I want to be, I feel good about it.

That is my experience...YMMV.

Muad'dib · #39 11-05-2009, 08:53 AM

Remember that while in transit, WAL-Mart allow overnite parking in their lots
in the hope that you will spend in the morning before moving on.

A very few towns have ordinances against this, citing 'Sanitary concerns",
however the real problem is Campground owners whining and complaining about
lost revenue.

Research State's which allow pets into their State Parks, Indiana does.

Only other thing is I urge you to get a trailer and tow vehicle, not a motorhome.

Don't want all your eggs in one basket

***Dennis Olson*** · #40 11-05-2009, 09:16 AM

In my particular case, settling in a specific area (buying some land) is out of the question for a couple of reasons:

1) I have no idea where a job might come up for me. What good does it do me to homestead only to have to leave the land for years?

2) Property taxes. These days, you never own your own land. If, for whatever reason, you are unable to pay your property taxes, the land will be seized and sold by the government involved. There are no property taxes on an RV, and it can't be seized unless you're doing something illegal in it.

I would get the motorhome and a car dolly for the van. Naturally I couldn't live up here in "da tundra" in the winter time in an RV. My travelling in it would be strictly limited to "as needed", so large gas expenses wouldn't be an issue. Kids are gone, (now ex-) wife is gone. Just me and the dogs. Right now I live in a 3600 sq ft 4 br/2 ba house. What's that doing for me? Nothing. It's way too big, and I can't keep up on the required cleaning and maintenance.

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