WoT EMP Attack Could Wipe Out U.S.

[Fisher]

Fair use
http://www.newsmax.com/kessler/emp_a...09/257870.html

EMP Attack Could Wipe Out U.S.
Wednesday, September 9, 2009 10:26 AM
By: Ronald Kessler

The federal government is doing “nothing” to protect against an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) attack that could wipe out American civilization, Dr. Peter Vincent Pry, a leading expert on the subject, tells Newsmax.

For only $200 million to $400 million, the government could protect a key element of the power grid to keep electrical power from being wiped out for years, according to Dr. Pry, a former staff member of the congressional Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse Attack.

Yet neither Republicans nor Democrats have been willing to spend that small sum, says Pry, who is president EMPACT America, which is meeting in Niagara Falls, N.Y. this week to spotlight the scandal.

A single nuclear bomb exploded over the Midwest would generate an electromagnetic pulse that would destroy the chips that are at the heart of every electronic device. While military and intelligence networks may be shielded against EMP, most of the rest of the country’s technological infrastructure is not.

An EMP attack would wipe out personal computers and the internet. Cars would not start, gasoline pumps would not work, and airplanes could not take off.

Heat and air conditioning would shut down, supermarkets would have to close, telephones would go dead, water would go out, and radio and television sets would not turn on.

Banks and ATMs would shut down, credit cards would become useless, and emergency services and hospital operating rooms would close.

In the ensuing chaos, most Americans would die from starvation.

“We have a 60-day food supply in big regional warehouses,” Pry says. “Typically when hurricanes take out the electric power grid locally, that food spoils, because it needs temperature control systems and refrigerators to keep it preserved. And if you lose the electric grid across the whole country, you’re going to lose all that food that is the best hope for feeding the American people.”

The 2008 report of the congressional commission found that the country is shockingly unprepared for an EMP attack. Terrorists or countries like Iran or North Korea could launch an EMP attack and “possibly end us as a civilization, and take us out as an actor on the world stage,” Pry says.

At the least, Pry says, 100 to 200 large transformers used in electrical transmission should be protected against EMP attack.

“The key for our electric power grid are these big transformers,” Pry says. “All together, there are about 300 of them. They are absolutely indispensable to the operation of the power grid. If you fry those things, there are only a couple of countries in the world that sell them for export, and it takes a year, at least, to make one of them,” Pry says.

Equally important are small computers that regulate the power grid.

“This country can’t survive for six months without electricity, let alone a year,” Pry says. “Everything else would go down after losing electric power.”

To harden those transformers against an attack would cost a mere $200 million to $400 million, Pry says. For perhaps $20 billion, the entire power grid could be protected, Pry says. By comparison, the stimulus bill costs nearly $800 billion. Yet without electricity, no one would have a job.

Pry notes that the Iranians have written extensively about the possibility of wiping out America with an EMP attack. North Korea would also likely be in a position to do that, he says.

To be most effective, an EMP device would be detonated by a missile 200 miles above earth. A strong missile defense would knock missiles out of the sky before they reach the U.S. But going back to President Reagan’s Strategic Defense Initiative — dubbed Star Wars — Democrats have consistently ridiculed the idea of an anti-missile defense.

President Obama’s administration already has cut the Pentagon’s missile defense budget by $1.4 billion, or 15 percent.

However, Pry says a missile with a nuclear device launched from a ship would be just as effective at taking out the U.S., and no missile defense would work quickly enough to defend against it. Moreover, he notes, a great geomagnetic storm could unleash destruction almost as devastating as an EMP attack. Therefore, Pry says, the only sure defense is the hardening of targets.

Pry says the Department of Homeland Security has plans for 15 kinds of disasters, but none of the scenarios deals with an EMP attack. Nor, he says, are there any plans to harden the power grid.

“The Department of Defense has contingency plans, and they put a lot of effort into planning to come to the rescue in places like Africa and Indonesia in the event that there are natural catastrophes,” Pry says. “But they don’t plan for such contingencies for the American people.”

Like the government, the press has been asleep on the threat, Pry says. Liberals perceive efforts to prevent an EMP attack as a way to push for funds for anti-missile defense, which the left abhors.

“If they’d trouble themselves to read the EMP commission report, they would find the EMP commission is not saying strengthen missile defense is the answer,” Pry says. “While missile defense can be useful against EMP, it’s not the first solution, or the best solution.”

Instead, Pry says, “The best solution is smart planning to protect and recover the critical infrastructures, especially the electric power grid.”

***************

Ronald Kessler is chief Washington correspondent of Newsmax.com.

[Publius]

You would be surprised just how resourceful people in this country can be, and it would take mutable EMP attacks to completely take this country down and even then a lot of equipment will survive or made serviceable in a matter of hours.

[denfoote]

An EMP attack over any country would ruin their day!!

Think boomers.

[Rex Jackson]

EMP attack against the US would trigger a global nuclear war seeing it could destroy many parts of the grid leading to nuclear reactor meltdowns. Reactors need to grid to stay healthy. Every time a reactor goes, so does the surrounding community.

[Tundra Gypsy]

If you don't think much of an EMP attack, I would suggest a book called, 'One Second After,' by William Forstchen. A group of scientists had planned to present material to the government, but it was the same day as 9/11 and their information got shelved. The book gives you a small overview of what might be in store for the U.S. if such an event happened. Not a pretty event over the long term....you don't want this to happen....many will die..

[Anne in TN]

With all of our prepping, I won't survive without air-conditioning down here where it gets very hot and humid. Our food would turn to mold and I would not be able to breathe. I have a hard time breathing as it is. Plus, I suffer from hot flashes which makes my brain feel like it cooking on a winter day. As it is now, we need dehumidifiers to keep our prep room dry enough for the food.

We do have a propane generator hooked up to a window air-conditioner that could only keep us going for about a month or two. Then again, an EMP would blow out the genny.

I can cope with anything as long as I have air-conditioning when I need it. In my younger days I could have handled the heat but no more.

[Anne in TN]

For anyone who hasn't read it, this is a must: http://www.amazon.com/One-Second-Aft...2525385&sr=1-1

[momof23goats]

Originally Posted by Publius

You would be surprised just how resourceful people in this country can be, and it would take mutable EMP attacks to completely take this country down and even then a lot of equipment will survive or made serviceable in a matter of hours.

this is correct.

[Double_A]

Bunk! The difference between most probable and theory. There is no doubt a well coordinated by China or Russia attack could cause major damage.

The book One Second After is vasty overrated. I've posted here why at least three times. It is mostly a thriller purposely designed to scare the hell out of you, with minimal factual information.

However If you are looking for decent factual information you can find it the books appendix in the last few pages. These short few pages were written by someone who knows.

Moving on,

This article in some respects does a disservice because it does not discuss realistic threat only worse case senario, nor does it describe the new non-nuke ebombs which are incredibly effective in destroying electronic, but of small area (damage a few blocks in diameter)

for only 200-400 million eh? That's chump change and would have been done if the cost/benefits spreadsheet was done.

Just as an FYI there is a conference on EMP and effects today, but from what I've seen it is more directed to the eBombs not HEMP.

[KenGin31]

And EMP bomb is for small targets. Radar sites,electrical power plants etc. To go large scale would take a nuke. Then it would only do the local area.

[denfoote]

Originally Posted by Rex Jackson

EMP attack against the US would trigger a global nuclear war seeing it could destroy many parts of the grid leading to nuclear reactor meltdowns. Reactors need to grid to stay healthy. Every time a reactor goes, so does the surrounding community.

You've been seeing to many Hollywood movies.

I live about 25 miles from the largest Nuclear Generating Station in the country. I worked there for 13 years.

By NRC regulations, the control rods are held over the reactor by electro-magnets which are energized by an OFF SITE independent source.

In the event of ANY loss of outside power, the magnets deenergize and the rods gravity feed into the reactor.

[Double_A]

Originally Posted by KenGin31

And EMP bomb is for small targets. Radar sites,electrical power plants etc. To go large scale would take a nuke. Then it would only do the local area.

Correct you are.

Let me add a few things here. The absolute total wipe out effects (as in the Book mentioned here) are theoretically possible only when done with a well coordinated multiple nuke attack with everything positioned just right and with followup attacks spaced a few weeks apart.

There are people who have been aware of this for years. There are Ham radio operators like myself and others who have prepared against this, although not with multiple coordinated after attacks.

Every article like this needs to distinguish between Nuke EMP and eBomb EMP, as the ENERGY is different in RF Frequency and therefore it's ability to be guarded against and the thoroughness of destruction.

[Guns-N-Moses]

Just out of curiosity… I had a couple of EMP questions for all of you experts (based on the initial post).

Originally Posted by Fisher

“A single nuclear bomb exploded over the Midwest would generate an electromagnetic pulse that would destroy the chips that are at the heart of every electronic device. While military and intelligence networks may be shielded against EMP, most of the rest of the country’s technological infrastructure is not.

An EMP attack would wipe out personal computers and the Internet. Cars would not start, gasoline pumps would not work, and airplanes could not take off. Heat and air conditioning would shut down, supermarkets would have to close, telephones would go dead, water would go out, and radio and television sets would not turn on. Banks and ATMs would shut down, credit cards would become useless, and emergency services and hospital operating rooms would close.

…To be most effective, an EMP device would (need to) be detonated by a missile 200 miles above earth

- etc. -“ .

(1) If we were hit with an EMP device, does anyone know whether non-functioning electronic devices would still work? I can understand that powered electrical devices would be destroyed, but would (lets say) a small transistor radio that was not turned on (and perhaps without batteries) be left nonfunctional -or- does the EM pulse affect all semiconductors at the component level regardless of their power state?

(2) We know that if the nuclear blast doesn’t kill us, the radiation fallout (probably) eventually would. Question: If terrorists were to successfully detonate a Nuke 200 miles up (with the intention of damaging our infrastructure), what impact would this type of detonation have on people?

Do we still have to worry about the radioactive fallout as much?

Thanks!

[BoatGuy]

Has the US Government done anyhting to protect us from HEMP? No, on this we are agreed. But, they have spent a great deal of money protecting their own systems from attack.

GnM, there are a LOT of unanswered questions with regard to HEMP. It's not exactly the sort of thing that one can test very easily and it would be impossible to sit down and figure out what effects might befall any given device. At energy levels that high, a lot of strange things can and do happen. It's just not something that can be reliably predicted. So, we do what we can to minimize any possible effects and pray that they are enough... faraday shields, etc. As for your transistor radio, the biggest thing you can do to insure its survival, is to open it up and remove that internal ferrite bar antenna... On second thought, how about just making a faraday shield with a metal trash can and some screen, and putting some extra electronic gear in it? Even a laptop has a good chance of survival in there (although I would also put a solar mat in the can to charge it up)

Also, in the second part of your statement/question, with respect to fallout, I would ask you to spend a little time reading Cresson Kearneys Nuclear War Survival Skills. It is available online for free, and in hardcopy from many sources. There, you will find that our death from fallout is very far from bing assured. In fact, I would go so far as to say that if you are able to survive the fallout for two weeks, your chances are very good from that time forward. A lot of people have spent a lot of time trying to convince Americans that a nuclear war was unwinnable. The Soviets never believed in MAD (mutually assured destruction) and went on their merry way building top notch shelters, while our politicians insured that we would lose, having no shelters available. So, it is up to the individual to protect himself... not only from the effects of war, but also from those that would lie to us about those effects.

Lastly, an airburst nuke at 200 miles up, would have very little fallout. The effects would mainly be HEMP effects, since the blast would have no opportunity to scoop any soil (which is where fallout comes from). I have to admit that I don't know what, if any, effect the thermal pulse would have, at 200 miles above the surface. My first thought is that 200 miles would be enough to attenuate it. But, I don't know that for sure.

[johnnymac]

While the effects of EMP have been demonstrated in the laboratory and to a lesser degree in Hawaii (Starfish), whether or not an EMP burst will knock planes out of the sky, computers in cars out and kill the grid is a hypothesis.

Regardless, hardening the electric grid, while nice, should be a priority for EMP but also in general.

What is more important and what is the fear in every situation like this is starvation and disease. Most can go without electricity. Think of hurricanes, ice storms, bad weather, etc. Nearly all of us have had a major power outage, some for as long as weeks and survived. You cannot go that long without food, clean water and medications.

The US really needs to stockpile basic foodstuffs, water purification equipment and major medications in addition to gasoline, diesel and critical spare parts across the country. Basic food would include grain, cooking oil, powdered milk, dried beans, honey and a few other things. All could provide filling, albeit boring, food to millions. This is what the real threat is - lack of food and basic medical care.

[denfoote]

Moses,

http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/5971/emp.html

[Double_A]

Originally Posted by Guns-N-Moses

Just out of curiosity… I had a couple of EMP questions for all of you experts (based on the initial post).




(1) If we were hit with an EMP device, does anyone know whether non-functioning electronic devices would still work? I can understand that powered electrical devices would be destroyed, but would (lets say) a small transistor radio that was not turned on (and perhaps without batteries) be left nonfunctional -or- does the EM pulse affect all semiconductors at the component level regardless of their power state?

EM pulse affect all semiconductors at the component level regardless of their power state for eBombs this is correct because the wavelengths are sub-milimeter and gear doesn't need to be connected to long wires to couple enough energy to fry semiconductor component junctions. For HEMP generated by a Nuke it is generally accepted that as long as electronics are not connected to conductors longer than about a meter 40 inches (such as phone lines and electrical wiring) you'll be fine. So a portable radio not plugged into AC with it's an extendable antenna collapsed to it's shortest length, would most likely survive Nuke EMP

(2) We know that if the nuclear blast doesn’t kill us, the radiation fallout (probably) eventually would. Question: If terrorists were to successfully detonate a Nuke 200 miles up (with the intention of damaging our infrastructure), what impact would this type of detonation have on people?

There will be no deadly blast effects on earth when detonated at 200 miles out in space. Most people will be completely unaware other than their electronics won't work. Fallout will be nill, as fallout from a nuke explosion is generally composed of dirt and debris sucked into the explosion and irradiated with neutrons caused by the blast and the radioactive components of the bomb itself which would be small. As for radiation generated in the blast, it follows the Inverse square law were the Intensity declines with the inverse of the square of the distance. In other words it drops off like a rock and at a distance of 200 miles (or more) it becomes irrelevant

Do we still have to worry about the radioactive fallout as much?

In space there is virtually no source material for fallout.

Thanks!

[Greenspode]

I remember reading somewhere that an old microwave oven is a good place to store electronic items, as it will protect against an EMP.

Does anyone know if this is true?

Anyway, we had two old ones we were going to get rid of, so we kept them. They now hold our transistor radios, two way radios, etc.

Even if it doesn't work, it has proven a handy storage place.

[lilsparky]

I am at the EMP conference in Niagara Falls, it's today and tomorrow. It is excellent so far. I chose to come because I wanted credible information from credible sources before starting the chicken little thing all over again. This is an impressive array of really big kids. I wish some of you were here. Wait, how would I know?

Lots of great info, very sobering. The threat is the real deal.

[vlad]

Somewhere there must be reports of effect of EMP
at Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Nevada in the 1950s.
Reading those reports should answer all our questions.
I have no idea how to get this info.
If I write to my congresscritter his legislative
assistant will send me one of the many
weaselworded form letters in reply.

[SteveReloaded]

Originally Posted by vlad

Somewhere there must be reports of effect of EMP
at Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Nevada in the 1950s.
Reading those reports should answer all our questions.
I have no idea how to get this info.
If I write to my congresscritter his legislative
assistant will send me one of the many
weaselworded form letters in reply.

I don't think there will be much EMP related information about the 40/50's nukes. There weren't the mico-electronics we depend on now.

[Infoscout]

Can't be much worse than what our elected officials have been doing to us for decades!

[TB2005]

If there's a wire attached and if it has a computer chip, it's vulnerable. Best you can do prepare to survive the aftermath. Your TV, internet, car will be inop. If you can get power, your blender may work.

[ARMY RANGER]

Originally Posted by Greenspode

I remember reading somewhere that an old microwave oven is a good place to store electronic items, as it will protect against an EMP.

Does anyone know if this is true?

Anyway, we had two old ones we were going to get rid of, so we kept them. They now hold our transistor radios, two way radios, etc.

Even if it doesn't work, it has proven a handy storage place.

You are correct,a microwave oven will act as a Faraday cage and protect your electronics.

[LoupGarou]

Originally Posted by Greenspode

I remember reading somewhere that an old microwave oven is a good place to store electronic items, as it will protect against an EMP.

Does anyone know if this is true?

Anyway, we had two old ones we were going to get rid of, so we kept them. They now hold our transistor radios, two way radios, etc.

Even if it doesn't work, it has proven a handy storage place.

The microwave oven will do a fairly good job of acting like a Faraday cage, provided that you can make sure that the door metal and screen are very well connected electrically to the rest of the metal cabinet. However the usefulness of it in general due to the type and size of the device that can be put inside is NOT going to be damaged by a HEMP attack if it was unplugged anyway.

There are basically two types of EMP (there is no suck thing as an "EMP bomb", but rather E-Bombs, which are HPM (High Powered Microwave)). E-Bombs are non-nuclear, and use a high wattage pulse power supply to feed a microwave generating tube (usually a vircator). The other form of EMP is nuclear and MUST be done at high altitudes (way above what a plane can do), it is called HEMP (High-altitude Electro Magnetic Pulse).

One E-bomb might have a coverage area of up to a square mile with reduced damage potential (they are really designed for a few square blocks or less as a target). They are really designed to hit a very strategic target with a LOT of microwave power, and leave the surrounding areas undamaged. As the E-bomb's altitude is doubled, the affected area is quadrupled, BUT the effective power density is also cut by a factor of four (point source rules apply). They WON'T cover a city, much less a state. These use microwaves (GHz and above frequencies), and FULL shielding is the ONLY safeguard. The good news is that since they are a very limited target size, they are only going to be used on tactically viable targets, so unless you live next to a military or high value communications/infrastructure target, you won't be hit with one. HPM attacks damage ANY unshielded electronics because the frequency has an effective wavelength of around an inch or less, thereby making almost any circuit trace or wire an effective antenna to receive the pulse's signal.

HEMP attacks are a completely different ballgame. They are created by detonating nuclear devices high up in the atmosphere (80 miles is the very lowest edge that you will get the effect to be usable). The higher the altitude, the more spread out the effects are, but the weaker the pulse is at any one area (Field source rules apply). To cover CONUS, it will take a MINIMUM of at least four or five (depending on yield) devices, each at the right altitude, spread out at the right positions across the land, AND detonated within 6 seconds of it's neighboring devices. A SINGLE DEVICE WILL NOT "KNOCK OUT" THE US. It may temporarily knock a few random parts of the power grid, but it will NOT do widespread damage. HEMP attacks, if done right, will damage equipment that is connected to long lines (any conductor that is at least many dozens of feet long or longer (think, "the grids"). This is because the frequency of a HEMP pulse is very low, in the shortwave bands and lower (most of the power is lower than 14MHz). At 14MHz, the minimum length of a quarterwave antenna is 16.7 feet, and where most of the power of a HEMP blast is (below 3MHz), the antenna increases to a minimum of 78 feet. This is the reason that most of the devices that will fit in the microwave, really don't need to be in there to be protected, just unplugged from all of their cables and cords. A E-bomb (HPM) attack is improbable for most people, and a HEMP attack won't bother small, unplugged devices anyway.
_____

Originally Posted by vlad

Somewhere there must be reports of effect of EMP
at Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Nevada in the 1950s.
Reading those reports should answer all our questions.
I have no idea how to get this info.
If I write to my congresscritter his legislative
assistant will send me one of the many
weaselworded form letters in reply.

Start here:
http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/News/Loborev.txt (Part of the K-Project tests)
http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/nuclear/hane.html
http://glasstone.blogspot.com/2006/0...ear-space.html

Originally Posted by from [url

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_K_Project][/url]
The Soviet tests were meant to demonstrate their anti-ballistic missile defenses which would supposedly protect their major cities in the event of a nuclear war. The worst effects of a Russian high altitude test occurred on 22 October 1962 (during the Cuban missile crisis), in Operation K when a 300-kt missile-warhead detonated near Dzhezkazgan at 290-km altitude. The EMP fused 570 km of overhead telephone line with a measured current of 2,500 amperes. The telephone line was divided into sub-lines of 40 to 80 kilometers in length, separated by repeaters. Each sub-line was protected by fuses and by gas-filled overvoltage protectors. The EMP from the 22 October (K-3) nuclear test caused all of the fuses to blow and all of the overvoltage protectors to fire in all of the sub-lines of the 570 km telephone line. The EMP from the same test started a fire that burned down the Karaganda power plant, and shut down 1,000-km of shallow-buried power cables between Aqmola (now called Astana) and Almaty.

Loup

[lilsparky]

Loup That graphic you posted was used by one of the presenters today (at the EMP Conference in Niagara Falls) when talking about what the Russians finally shared with us from their testing.

[Dex]

I think mutually assured destruction would apply. If an enemy of the US were to perpetrate such an attack, they would be assured of an equal, or more likely, greater retaliatory attack that would make it cost prohibitive. I'm pretty sure our military would see this as no different than a nuke attack and respond in kind.

[vlad]

We have to rely on what communist Russia is willing to tell us???

Don't we have spies????

If our federal government was on our side we would
teach EMP countermeasures in high school auto shop.


Who benefits if we are hit with EMP and 150,000,000
armed American patriots are on foot and bicycles?

[rubycodez]

Originally Posted by momof23goats

this is correct.

that is incorrect. you confuse the EMP from a ground or air burst from the type that is made in the proper layer of the ionosphere. A megaton range weapon in near space can damage civilian electronics and power grid for over a thousand miles. The wikipedia article "Electromagnetic_pulse" is a good enough introduction to the topic.

I also see other misconceptions in these replies. Someone imagines that if the control rods trip on their local reactor then all is well. This is false, the fuel assemblies will require coolant for years, without that they will melt down and then the question is how good is the containment system? And note the fuel in the "spent fuel pool" near the reactor also requires that same coolant circulation for years before it can be moved to storage casks, if power fails for long enough time the borated water will boil away and the fuel will catch fire.

The planes that dropped the very small fission bombs on Japan had vacuum tube electronics (military grade of course), that is a very different situation than a weapon with 500 times the yield detonating in ionosphere over our insulated-gate field effect transistor based digital society.

The initial quick pulse (E1) from an EMP weapon at 200-300 mile altitude will destroy civilian electronics for over a thousand miles. The latent E3 pulse, lasting tens to hundreds of seconds an similar to massive geomagnetic or solar flare disturbance, caused by disruption to earth's magnetic field, will destroy unhardend power grid transformers, motors, generators for the same distance.

[rubycodez]

Originally Posted by Greenspode

I remember reading somewhere that an old microwave oven is a good place to store electronic items, as it will protect against an EMP.

Does anyone know if this is true?

Anyway, we had two old ones we were going to get rid of, so we kept them. They now hold our transistor radios, two way radios, etc.

Even if it doesn't work, it has proven a handy storage place.

not true if oven unmodified. The system is NOT a faraday cage since there is a power cord to conduct EMP into the interior.

[Volleyball Granny]

Sabotage, EMP, ice storm, hurricane, flood, earthquake, volcano, the Long Emergency...any of those can take out a power grid. The REAL point is not whether we've hardened our grids against an EMP, but whether we can go on without electricity.

We can live in the Texas heat without A/C. No, it will not be pleasant, but our ancestors didn't know any better--and they survived. We'll have to go back to working hardest in the early morning and early evening, taking a siesta in the heat of the day. We'll have to open windows, sit still and read, or think, or rest...it is possible to live in the heat.

The biggest problem I see will be in keeping our yards and gardens going. I have a lot of yard--and don't have the physical oomph to put it all in garden. Honestly, I'd rather make sure I had enough gasoline to cut the grass than make a long trek to work every day. I do, however, have the old sickle that belonged to my granddaddy--my son could cut a path to the garden for me.

As I go through my house, I make plans for a non-electric future. What's important? Coffee--get a stove-top percolator. Bread--make a solar oven. Heat--make sure you've got quilts to layer or a wood-stove.

Even if the S doesn't HTF, or an EMP doesn't materialize, little steps forward will save you money now and help you step into a future without power.

[Volleyball Granny]

Originally Posted by rubycodez

not true if oven unmodified. The system is NOT a faraday cage since there is a power cord to conduct EMP into the interior.

Power cord? Even when it's not plugged in? What about cutting the cord at the appliance?

[rubycodez]

Originally Posted by Volleyball Granny

Power cord? Even when it's not plugged in? What about cutting the cord at the appliance?

things would be better if power cord cut, since if left attached will act as antenna for E1 part of EMP even if not connected to grid. Sure, not as bad as a plugged in cord.

Just looking at the chassis of my five year old GE microwave, I see many large slots in rear for ventilation, that means that portion of EMP energy with wavelenth equal to or less than that will get inside, and EMP E1 component goes to sub-millimeter wavelengths! Again, things still much better inside the oven than out, but microwave oven seems less than ideal unless oven was wrapped in substantial guage metal foil or had holes sealed with conductive covers.

[stown]

Originally Posted by rubycodez

that is incorrect. you confuse the EMP from a ground or air burst from the type that is made in the proper layer of the ionosphere.

I could be wrong but I am pretty sure momof23goats is referring to the resourcefulness of Americans, and not the technical aspects of the post she was responding to

[zoose]

We just did an experiment.

I wrapped my cell phone in aluminium foil.

Then she called me.

It went to voice mail. My phone didn't ring.

We're on the same provider so since she had a signal I should have had one also.

So did this act as a Faraday cage?

[Volleyball Granny]

So, we should wrap the cell phone in aluminum foil before putting it in the microwave oven? I'm thinking it won't matter. What good will my cell phone do if there are no other cell phones working?

The same with my car. If I grounded my car by connecting one part of a jumper cable to the exhaust pipe and the other end to a ground wire (as suggested in a prior thread about EMP) and drove it out of the drive way, I'd only get as far as the first police station before the car would be confiscated. Unlike the guy in One Second After, I am not politically connected to the PTB.

[Double_A]

Originally Posted by zoose

We just did an experiment.

I wrapped my cell phone in aluminium foil.

Then she called me.

It went to voice mail. My phone didn't ring.

We're on the same provider so since she had a signal I should have had one also.

So did this act as a Faraday cage?

Yes,

But your cellphone won't work without millions of dollars of telephone infrastructure. Two cellphones across the street don't talk to each other they talk to a distant cellsite. Cellsite down, phones are worthless, even if just across the street.

[Warthog]

EMP would destroy this old electric grid. It's ready to fall apart now!

[zoose]

Originally Posted by Double_A

Yes,

But your cellphone won't work without millions of dollars of telephone infrastructure. Two cellphones across the street don't talk to each other they talk to a distant cellsite. Cellsite down, phones are worthless, even if just across the street.

I know that. We were just doing a test kinda like a Mr. Wizard thing.

I'd certainly like to protect my Grundig SW radio and a few other Items but consider how much warning we would have of this?


Seconds, Minutes ?

[zoose]

On another note our local FM radio station KNYE (started by Art Bell) took a direct hit from a lightning strike a few years back.

Everything went down.

The Collins FM transmitter was power cycled and we power cycled our Cisco Access points ( I work for a local ISP ) and after a few minutes the station and our AP's were back on the air.

The only damage was a sq. foot size of concrete was blown out next to the ground rod at the base of the tower.

I wonder if a properly grounded tower would protect the stuff hanging on it from and EMP burst?

Lightning is the closest thing to an EMP that I know of.