ECON This is NOT the 2nd running of the Great Depression.
- Thread starter cory
- Start date
BlueNewton
Membership Revoked
Cory,
I am not seeing your charts. Is it just me?
I am not seeing your charts. Is it just me?
cory
Inactive
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cory
Inactive
got a request to clarify my views.
Basically, I agree with the graphs.
The graphs show that the economy is tracking the 1st couple years of the Great Depression. Economic activity is dropping.
If you think about the individual news items, Lehman, Madoff, Fannie/Freddie, GM, layoffs, lost savings, lost home values, on and on, it is perfectly matched to those two graphs.
Then if you mull over people you know, how many have lost jobs? How many are now 2 and 3 generations living together to make ends meet?
I know a man who used to earn $150K a few years ago. He's been unemployed for a while. His wife has started cleaning houses nights and weekends to help put food on the table. His kids do not have college in their future. People are writing reference letters, hoping he can get a $40K job.
I know another man, a programmer who was earning $100K/year. He hasn't worked for 14 months except some pick-up work here and there. He has two small girls.
A little over a year ago, I wrote in a thread here, calling the tip-over and saying that the pollies were done for. I got flamed a little for being too negative. "there's always time to prep."
No. There isn't. There wasn't. I'll drag out that thread in another year so we can laugh at my negativity.
Me? You? We're doing terrific. The reason we're doing so well is that we've been prepping for a long time.
By prepping, I don't mean MRE's or a fine quality Colt AR-15 SP1 with 30 round mags. I don't mean gold either.
I mean real preps.
1) save some cash but do it steady for a long period of time. If you put just $20/week into a coffee can starting at the rollover, you'd have about ten thousand dollars in cash. Hopefully you'd put it in the bank and earn a little interest.
2) Relentlessly drive down your expenses. I used to waste $35/month on a cellfone. A wise man here turned me on to T-Mobile.
3) Learn to cook, I love red beans and rice with a nice tang of hot peppers. Homemade coffee is plenty good and only dumb pollies go to Starbucks.
4) Don't buy junk. Pay down debt.
5) Don't overbuy a car or house. I used to take some heat because I refused to sell my place and rent. "Housing is a bubble!" Well, no, it isn't.
Some areas were overpriced but others weren't My house is a small cottage, close to jobs and services. My place hasn't shot up in value but it hasn't lost either.
6) Build your work skills, network with others in your trade or profession.
Here and on W-RP, we live well within our means. People work hard. We're not pollies.
I'm guessing that about half the population fell into the abyss in the last couple years.
Up until 2 years ago, I was the "poor relation" in my circle. Somehow, I've ended up almost the well-off member. My situation didn't change. The pollies fell down.
That's how I see it. I think it will get worse for a while.
Basically, I agree with the graphs.
The graphs show that the economy is tracking the 1st couple years of the Great Depression. Economic activity is dropping.
If you think about the individual news items, Lehman, Madoff, Fannie/Freddie, GM, layoffs, lost savings, lost home values, on and on, it is perfectly matched to those two graphs.
Then if you mull over people you know, how many have lost jobs? How many are now 2 and 3 generations living together to make ends meet?
I know a man who used to earn $150K a few years ago. He's been unemployed for a while. His wife has started cleaning houses nights and weekends to help put food on the table. His kids do not have college in their future. People are writing reference letters, hoping he can get a $40K job.
I know another man, a programmer who was earning $100K/year. He hasn't worked for 14 months except some pick-up work here and there. He has two small girls.
A little over a year ago, I wrote in a thread here, calling the tip-over and saying that the pollies were done for. I got flamed a little for being too negative. "there's always time to prep."
No. There isn't. There wasn't. I'll drag out that thread in another year so we can laugh at my negativity.
Me? You? We're doing terrific. The reason we're doing so well is that we've been prepping for a long time.
By prepping, I don't mean MRE's or a fine quality Colt AR-15 SP1 with 30 round mags. I don't mean gold either.
I mean real preps.
1) save some cash but do it steady for a long period of time. If you put just $20/week into a coffee can starting at the rollover, you'd have about ten thousand dollars in cash. Hopefully you'd put it in the bank and earn a little interest.
2) Relentlessly drive down your expenses. I used to waste $35/month on a cellfone. A wise man here turned me on to T-Mobile.
3) Learn to cook, I love red beans and rice with a nice tang of hot peppers. Homemade coffee is plenty good and only dumb pollies go to Starbucks.
4) Don't buy junk. Pay down debt.
5) Don't overbuy a car or house. I used to take some heat because I refused to sell my place and rent. "Housing is a bubble!" Well, no, it isn't.
Some areas were overpriced but others weren't My house is a small cottage, close to jobs and services. My place hasn't shot up in value but it hasn't lost either.
6) Build your work skills, network with others in your trade or profession.
Here and on W-RP, we live well within our means. People work hard. We're not pollies.
I'm guessing that about half the population fell into the abyss in the last couple years.
Up until 2 years ago, I was the "poor relation" in my circle. Somehow, I've ended up almost the well-off member. My situation didn't change. The pollies fell down.
That's how I see it. I think it will get worse for a while.
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You were and are 100% right on IMO, cory. You have a lot of skin in the game and I never take you lightly here or elsewhere. The thing that is yet to appear, though, is that the debt overhang REALLY starts to unravel - personal, corporate, and government. This is just the beginning of that, and was not nearly as bad in 1929, vis-a-vis savings and self-sufficiency connections that existed then.
rodeorector
Global Moderator
Cory, I have a friend in DC who says the prevailing feeling is that the US will end up with millions of homeless hungry people in the streets, like the ones you described as previously fairly well off.
Hansa44
Justine Case
I must be misunderstanding what you're saying here when you say things were not as bad during the last depression because people had savings, etc.
My grandmother had savings, And she was given 10 cents on the dollar for her troubles. Things were very bad back then. From some of what I've read and heard, it was worse. But I suspect that in the near future, things are going to get sorta' horrible.
Somehow I have doubts guns are going to help much. Unless you have a bunch of others to help you. And even then............
cory
Inactive
Yes.
Absolutely stone cold right.
That's what the graphs show. It could be deceptive though because we have faster, better communications. Also, in 1929, the population was more spread out. Gram and gramps were growing apples to feed pigs. Wall street tanks, the apples and pigs are still there. It took a couple years for the economic mess to feed back through the system.
Then there's the war stimulus. We are already in a war. We don't need WWII. We have two wars already, Iraq and Afghanistan. In addition, North Korea and maybe Iran may go nuclear.
People have commented on the "Ammo" shortage.
Clearly something has been going on for a couple years. I-know, I-know, we just have to pass a few stimulus bills and everything will be better.
cory-to me it looks like todays economy is dropping a lot faster than the 20's?
Absolutely stone cold right.
That's what the graphs show. It could be deceptive though because we have faster, better communications. Also, in 1929, the population was more spread out. Gram and gramps were growing apples to feed pigs. Wall street tanks, the apples and pigs are still there. It took a couple years for the economic mess to feed back through the system.
Then there's the war stimulus. We are already in a war. We don't need WWII. We have two wars already, Iraq and Afghanistan. In addition, North Korea and maybe Iran may go nuclear.
People have commented on the "Ammo" shortage.
Clearly something has been going on for a couple years. I-know, I-know, we just have to pass a few stimulus bills and everything will be better.
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cory
Inactive
I hope you are wrong.
I hope you are wrong.
I've been watching my polly-pals and matching what I see in their lives to the national stats.
Most of these pollies, who are real people, have lost hundreds of thousands of dollars. Call it an average of $300,000 total, but three-ways.
$100,000 in lost wages over the last few years.
$100,000 in lost savings as the stock market tanked and their 401(k) became a 201(k).
$100,000 in lost equity as their fancy-dancy McMansion lost value.
I mentioned the wife of that $150K/year man working nights, weekends to clean houses. I know 2 others who have taken janitorial jobs. I've discussed this in my on-the-ground circle, with people who know them, and the general feeling is:
1) It's a job, you do what you have to. Good for them.
2) There but for the grace of God, go I.
It is hard to keep a positive perspective. Seeing so many people burn up their personal reserves means that as this continues, one by one, they will fall into the abyss.
I also have reports of entry level and lower level people looking for work and getting aced out by folks who were a couple levels above them.
I hope you are wrong.
I've been watching my polly-pals and matching what I see in their lives to the national stats.
Most of these pollies, who are real people, have lost hundreds of thousands of dollars. Call it an average of $300,000 total, but three-ways.
$100,000 in lost wages over the last few years.
$100,000 in lost savings as the stock market tanked and their 401(k) became a 201(k).
$100,000 in lost equity as their fancy-dancy McMansion lost value.
I mentioned the wife of that $150K/year man working nights, weekends to clean houses. I know 2 others who have taken janitorial jobs. I've discussed this in my on-the-ground circle, with people who know them, and the general feeling is:
1) It's a job, you do what you have to. Good for them.
2) There but for the grace of God, go I.
It is hard to keep a positive perspective. Seeing so many people burn up their personal reserves means that as this continues, one by one, they will fall into the abyss.
I also have reports of entry level and lower level people looking for work and getting aced out by folks who were a couple levels above them.
cory
Inactive
Ratcheting down.
The drop over the last 2 years has been incredible. It finally "hit me" about 16 months ago but then, I'm a little dense sometimes. Hey, things are going bad!
I know a guy who burned through over a half million dollars of his savings trying to build a business. He invited me to invest w/ him in 2007. I declined. He's busted now.
I think the "safety net" will hold but it is getting very thin. I have many private reports of households doubling up.
You can see it better than the news-pollies or the government stats.
If you check with the people you know, notice how they're doing, the reality comes blazing through.
The drop over the last 2 years has been incredible. It finally "hit me" about 16 months ago but then, I'm a little dense sometimes. Hey, things are going bad!
I know a guy who burned through over a half million dollars of his savings trying to build a business. He invited me to invest w/ him in 2007. I declined. He's busted now.
I think the "safety net" will hold but it is getting very thin. I have many private reports of households doubling up.
You can see it better than the news-pollies or the government stats.
If you check with the people you know, notice how they're doing, the reality comes blazing through.
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momof23goats
Deceased
well my dh was an industrail electrician, and a good one. big companies would get him, he can take a pole barn, and build the machines, and put together a line, and you will have a factory when he is through but jobs became hard to get, he did go to Canada for a couple of jobs, but then not a thing. He took himself to truck driving school, and now he is an over the road trucker.
It pays the bills. He has been on the road for a couple of years. i don't like it, he doesn't like it, but ya do what ya gotta do.
na,we don't owe a ton of bill's, and i do grow our food, meat , fruit on this homestead. so we are miles out front of the average joe.
It isn't the gold or silver, or the MRE'S that is true enough it is the long term preps you have in place, got goats? got chickens?
might want to check into that.
It pays the bills. He has been on the road for a couple of years. i don't like it, he doesn't like it, but ya do what ya gotta do.
na,we don't owe a ton of bill's, and i do grow our food, meat , fruit on this homestead. so we are miles out front of the average joe.
It isn't the gold or silver, or the MRE'S that is true enough it is the long term preps you have in place, got goats? got chickens?
might want to check into that.
cory
Inactive
This is exactly what I'm seeing play out.
A good Industrial Electrician who turn a pole barn into a factory... That how I feel about computers and software. "just give it to me. I can make it work."
and I am miles in front of the average polly around here.
I took a completely different path from you but the concept is exactly the same.
Your man was an industrial electrician. I was a mainframe internals programmer.
Times got hard.
He tried some different things. I tried web work for idiots.
He retooled as a truck driver and drove trucks. I started doing Lotus Notes Domino systems using Domino Designer which is like Macromedia Dreamweaver warted onto Visual Basic with Object extensions.
You say don't owe on bills. I've been paying down back debt as fast as I can. This is while earning about 85% of my consulting rate in 1998. Things were cheaper in 1998 but compared to the pollies, I'm still moving ahead.
It's about cutting debt, having skills, keeping a job (any job), keep moving ahead.
I call the big saver, using peasant technology. That's cooking a quality meal for about 50 cents. Pollies think $5.00 at McDogfood is a saving. It is compared to the $15.00 they were paying Take-Out-Taxi or $35 at a Bistro.
The pollies would be shocked at how low I pay and how high the quality is, because I can cook a few basics, like chili, stew, and breakfast..
Oatmeal with cinnamon, real butter, a little brown sugar, sometimes I stir in peanut butter, sometimes strawberry preserves. I have that with a big mug of hot coffee that I make.
The dumb pollies are at Starbucks getting coffee and sometimes a cookie, they walk away $5.00 for $6.00 lighter. Do that for 200 work days and I've got $1,000 in my pocket that the polllies don't have.
Do that for 10 years and we are $10,000 ahead of the pollies. This does not mean that we have $10K, part of it that savings could, should have gone against debt. Either way, the edge, the delta, is what counts.
Home ec, peasant technology, gives us the edge over the pollies. Figure 100,000,000 households in the U.S., very roughly. Half have fallen off the edge because they lived the polly lifestyle. That's fifty million busted-broke polly households.
There is no way to "save" them. The money does not exist.
This doesn't mean they'll starve or there will be a mass extinction. It means exactly what we're seeing.
Very roughly half the population has run out of options. They have lost several fortunes, home equity, savings, job earnings going forward.
This limits their future. College for their progeny, business formation, training, a better home, a comfortable and secure retirement, medical care.
Everything is now just that much harder and out-of-reach.
The dang-pollies mortgaged their future for Starbucks, $6,000 Plasma TeeVees, all the junk and excess of the last 10 or 15 years.
They're busted, we're not.
A good Industrial Electrician who turn a pole barn into a factory... That how I feel about computers and software. "just give it to me. I can make it work."
and I am miles in front of the average polly around here.
I took a completely different path from you but the concept is exactly the same.
Your man was an industrial electrician. I was a mainframe internals programmer.
Times got hard.
He tried some different things. I tried web work for idiots.
He retooled as a truck driver and drove trucks. I started doing Lotus Notes Domino systems using Domino Designer which is like Macromedia Dreamweaver warted onto Visual Basic with Object extensions.
You say don't owe on bills. I've been paying down back debt as fast as I can. This is while earning about 85% of my consulting rate in 1998. Things were cheaper in 1998 but compared to the pollies, I'm still moving ahead.
It's about cutting debt, having skills, keeping a job (any job), keep moving ahead.
I call the big saver, using peasant technology. That's cooking a quality meal for about 50 cents. Pollies think $5.00 at McDogfood is a saving. It is compared to the $15.00 they were paying Take-Out-Taxi or $35 at a Bistro.
The pollies would be shocked at how low I pay and how high the quality is, because I can cook a few basics, like chili, stew, and breakfast..
Oatmeal with cinnamon, real butter, a little brown sugar, sometimes I stir in peanut butter, sometimes strawberry preserves. I have that with a big mug of hot coffee that I make.
The dumb pollies are at Starbucks getting coffee and sometimes a cookie, they walk away $5.00 for $6.00 lighter. Do that for 200 work days and I've got $1,000 in my pocket that the polllies don't have.
Do that for 10 years and we are $10,000 ahead of the pollies. This does not mean that we have $10K, part of it that savings could, should have gone against debt. Either way, the edge, the delta, is what counts.
Home ec, peasant technology, gives us the edge over the pollies. Figure 100,000,000 households in the U.S., very roughly. Half have fallen off the edge because they lived the polly lifestyle. That's fifty million busted-broke polly households.
There is no way to "save" them. The money does not exist.
This doesn't mean they'll starve or there will be a mass extinction. It means exactly what we're seeing.
Very roughly half the population has run out of options. They have lost several fortunes, home equity, savings, job earnings going forward.
This limits their future. College for their progeny, business formation, training, a better home, a comfortable and secure retirement, medical care.
Everything is now just that much harder and out-of-reach.
The dang-pollies mortgaged their future for Starbucks, $6,000 Plasma TeeVees, all the junk and excess of the last 10 or 15 years.
They're busted, we're not.
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saveamerica
Veteran Member
me too. maybe thats what he meant .. that its worse than 1929?
BlueNewton
Membership Revoked
Thanks for the first hand reports from your AO, Cory. I am not seeing so much of it in my circles, although it will eventually come.
I am glad you did come around, Cory--not that us doomers need more members in our group! But you will be OK, because you did get it and you got it before it was too late to prep to a degree that it would mean something.
I am glad you did come around, Cory--not that us doomers need more members in our group! But you will be OK, because you did get it and you got it before it was too late to prep to a degree that it would mean something.
cory
Inactive
Could be.
The exact angle of the dangle doesn't matter.
What matters is that you, you, you, and me didn't bet on house prices continuing to double every 3 years. We did not buy 2 or 3 $6,000 Plasma TV's.
We kept to our basics.
I still have my 13 inch rotary tuner set and got a couple digital converters using the $40 coupons. I'll set it up at some point.
I don't think it's any one thing. It's the whole "prepper lifestyle" applied evenly, persistently, done smart.
Cooking is big. So is sewing. Ditto car repair and regular maintenance.
The exact angle of the dangle doesn't matter.
What matters is that you, you, you, and me didn't bet on house prices continuing to double every 3 years. We did not buy 2 or 3 $6,000 Plasma TV's.
We kept to our basics.
I still have my 13 inch rotary tuner set and got a couple digital converters using the $40 coupons. I'll set it up at some point.
I don't think it's any one thing. It's the whole "prepper lifestyle" applied evenly, persistently, done smart.
Cooking is big. So is sewing. Ditto car repair and regular maintenance.
cory
Inactive
Have you scratched beneath the surface?
From a casual external view, my pollies look like they are doing OK, good even.
When I dig deep and get the numbers out, a different picture emerges.
The first job loss that I'm tracking was in December 2007. Two more followed in March 2008. Collectively, the lost wages total about $350,000. That's for 3 people. (I'm ignoring the job losses at the rollover, that's ancient history.)
All three look normal. They drive, wear clean clothes, buy food, go about their lives.
Under the surface though, they have burned up their savings, pulled home equity. Little by little, the economic wreck is taking them down.
From a casual external view, my pollies look like they are doing OK, good even.
When I dig deep and get the numbers out, a different picture emerges.
The first job loss that I'm tracking was in December 2007. Two more followed in March 2008. Collectively, the lost wages total about $350,000. That's for 3 people. (I'm ignoring the job losses at the rollover, that's ancient history.)
All three look normal. They drive, wear clean clothes, buy food, go about their lives.
Under the surface though, they have burned up their savings, pulled home equity. Little by little, the economic wreck is taking them down.
willowlady
Veteran Member
What people keep forgetting,
and I mean people here, as well as DGI's, is two huge differences between the Great Depression and what is coming.
(1) The the demographics of the populace was very different, i.e., about 90% of the people in this country were rural at that time. Many had the ability to feed themselves from their land. Now we have about 90% living in or near cities with no ability to feed themselves on 5,000 sq. feet of land.
(2) The financial liquidity of the US at that time was good. We had surplus money supply by which govt. was able to create AND PAY FOR jobs programs.
Methinks this is going to be much, much worse than the Great Depression.
and I mean people here, as well as DGI's, is two huge differences between the Great Depression and what is coming.
(1) The the demographics of the populace was very different, i.e., about 90% of the people in this country were rural at that time. Many had the ability to feed themselves from their land. Now we have about 90% living in or near cities with no ability to feed themselves on 5,000 sq. feet of land.
(2) The financial liquidity of the US at that time was good. We had surplus money supply by which govt. was able to create AND PAY FOR jobs programs.
Methinks this is going to be much, much worse than the Great Depression.
No, it's definitely not the second running of The Great Depression. Econ commentator Doug Casey has for years now been calling what is coming "The Greater Depression." I think he's right.
The main thing IMHO is that, in 1929, there were limits to how much the lethal combination of the Fed and a toady-to-the-bankers government could blow up the money supply. Gold was still money in 1929, the gold standard served as a check valve on how much and how fast the money supply could be increased. Oh sure, FDR did what he could in 1933, and inflated by about 60%. They did that by calling in the privately held gold bullion, paying for it with new FRNs, and increasing the official price of gold from $20 to $32 per ounce.
There IS NO check valve on money creation these days. That means there is no bottom to the abyss the banker/government combine is creating.
That is the big difference between 1929 and today as I see it.
In 1929, there WAS a bottom. Oh, sure- government interference kept us bouncing off that bottom longer than necessary during The Great Depression. But there were limits to the down side, then.
Today, there is no limit- there is no bottom- and continued government interference with market forces guarantee- yes, guarantee- that things are going to be infinitely worse than they were in the 1930s.
dd
The main thing IMHO is that, in 1929, there were limits to how much the lethal combination of the Fed and a toady-to-the-bankers government could blow up the money supply. Gold was still money in 1929, the gold standard served as a check valve on how much and how fast the money supply could be increased. Oh sure, FDR did what he could in 1933, and inflated by about 60%. They did that by calling in the privately held gold bullion, paying for it with new FRNs, and increasing the official price of gold from $20 to $32 per ounce.
There IS NO check valve on money creation these days. That means there is no bottom to the abyss the banker/government combine is creating.
That is the big difference between 1929 and today as I see it.
In 1929, there WAS a bottom. Oh, sure- government interference kept us bouncing off that bottom longer than necessary during The Great Depression. But there were limits to the down side, then.
Today, there is no limit- there is no bottom- and continued government interference with market forces guarantee- yes, guarantee- that things are going to be infinitely worse than they were in the 1930s.
dd
cory
Inactive
Here's my problem....
I'm not saying you're wrong. It's that you are using what is known and are looking ahead.
It might turn out better. It might turn out that you've nailed it. It might be like Infomagic used to say, "I could be wrong, it could be worse."
What I'm doing is looking hard at the recent past, digging deep into what the pollies around me are doing, and going for the ground truth.
The ground truth is that several millions of previous well-off pollies are destitute. It could be as many as several tens of millions. It could be more.
Most still look and live as if things are normal.
You know the saying, "one paycheck away from bankruptcy"? There are several million who crossed that line months ago. We just don't know it because one of their 10 credit cards still has some headroom.
Consider all the Starbucks that closed. They weren't closed because a few pollies choose to eschew $5.00 Lattes. They were closed because enough polllies are busted-broke that their credit cards don't work or they can't ATM out cash.
I think most here are like me. I've got $50 cash in my wallet, a working credit card, and don't feel the urge to spend $5.00 for a cup o' joe.
Please raise your hand if you disagree.
I'm not saying you're wrong. It's that you are using what is known and are looking ahead.
It might turn out better. It might turn out that you've nailed it. It might be like Infomagic used to say, "I could be wrong, it could be worse."
What I'm doing is looking hard at the recent past, digging deep into what the pollies around me are doing, and going for the ground truth.
The ground truth is that several millions of previous well-off pollies are destitute. It could be as many as several tens of millions. It could be more.
Most still look and live as if things are normal.
You know the saying, "one paycheck away from bankruptcy"? There are several million who crossed that line months ago. We just don't know it because one of their 10 credit cards still has some headroom.
Consider all the Starbucks that closed. They weren't closed because a few pollies choose to eschew $5.00 Lattes. They were closed because enough polllies are busted-broke that their credit cards don't work or they can't ATM out cash.
I think most here are like me. I've got $50 cash in my wallet, a working credit card, and don't feel the urge to spend $5.00 for a cup o' joe.
Please raise your hand if you disagree.
willowlady
Veteran Member
Isnt this what we all
do here on TB2k?
IMO, you are dead on right about the pollies.... Many are mostly clueless as to what is coming. Some are getting a clue. Yes, your information is "on the ground," but what's the point of information if not to plan ahead, look ahead, prep? Who can really know the future? I agree it may get better, but none of the indicators are looking like that.
What I see is a long slide, who knows where the "bottom" might be, with occasional bump ups created by TPTB just to keep up appearances. But at some point, this house of cards is going to collapse. I'm prepping not for a year or two, but for a generation or three. Cannot do it very effectively without land, but doing the best we can. The biggest, bestest prep item we have is our brains and willingness to learn new/old ways of doing things.
do here on TB2k?
IMO, you are dead on right about the pollies.... Many are mostly clueless as to what is coming. Some are getting a clue. Yes, your information is "on the ground," but what's the point of information if not to plan ahead, look ahead, prep? Who can really know the future? I agree it may get better, but none of the indicators are looking like that.
What I see is a long slide, who knows where the "bottom" might be, with occasional bump ups created by TPTB just to keep up appearances. But at some point, this house of cards is going to collapse. I'm prepping not for a year or two, but for a generation or three. Cannot do it very effectively without land, but doing the best we can. The biggest, bestest prep item we have is our brains and willingness to learn new/old ways of doing things.
cory
Inactive
What "on the ground" means to me.
Yes!
Over on W-RP, a couple regulars are taking the multi-generation view. I'm not.
My concern isn't next month or 4 decades out. It's more the next 6 months, maybe two or three years out to perhaps five years.
Beyond the stored food time-frame but within my lifetime.
It's about keeping an income stream and being self-sustaining in an economic sense.
Yes!
Over on W-RP, a couple regulars are taking the multi-generation view. I'm not.
My concern isn't next month or 4 decades out. It's more the next 6 months, maybe two or three years out to perhaps five years.
Beyond the stored food time-frame but within my lifetime.
It's about keeping an income stream and being self-sustaining in an economic sense.
Add in the not-well-off pollies who are also leading lives of quiet desperation, and you have a potential huge problem. My empirical observations, hanging around with people of all social strata as I do, are that about 40-50% of people still deny there is any fundamental problem; that it's mostly a problem of they need to hustle more to get a job, about 30% recognize there's something really wrong, but the media spin, their past conditioned responses to economic problems, and their worldview inertia are preventing them from doing much, and about 10-20% of people are starting to do something, right or wrong, to prepare. Much of it is wrong, like overreliance on guns as a panacea.
I wish I were wrong about the debt resolution, but there is so much obligation out there that it is 12-15x any ability to repay right now. The mathematics won't allow anything but a lot of tears when all the pressure reliefs like China buying commodities as a surrogate for dollars, are exhausted. This is coming soon. Said pressure reliefs are the main reason some appearance of normalcy is still being maintained even among people who are beyond broke. Yes, they can still max those one or two credit cards; there is still some capacity for government borrowing to fund a safety net. There has been tremendous goodwill and trust in the fiduciary US Dollar, and it is hard for the world to realize that is gone, but as they do, and it is occurring even now, actions will occur; actions we won't like.
Being able to control some resources and capital to produce something, and to defend that against takers, or to be aligned with same if infirm or aged, is the prudent course, IMO. Right now, we're having to ride the train of being somewhat "system", but we need to be prepared to have another train up to speed running alonside to fully jump to, when the time comes. I believe when we abandon denial and do all we in our particular circumstances can do, and trust in God, that He will meet us and fill in at our point of obedience. The presumptuous one who thinks they are going to hedge their way through, not wanting to change or lift a finger, will not be rewarded, nor will the fearful one wanting to be fully prepared in their own strength, as I understand it.
I wish I were wrong about the debt resolution, but there is so much obligation out there that it is 12-15x any ability to repay right now. The mathematics won't allow anything but a lot of tears when all the pressure reliefs like China buying commodities as a surrogate for dollars, are exhausted. This is coming soon. Said pressure reliefs are the main reason some appearance of normalcy is still being maintained even among people who are beyond broke. Yes, they can still max those one or two credit cards; there is still some capacity for government borrowing to fund a safety net. There has been tremendous goodwill and trust in the fiduciary US Dollar, and it is hard for the world to realize that is gone, but as they do, and it is occurring even now, actions will occur; actions we won't like.
Being able to control some resources and capital to produce something, and to defend that against takers, or to be aligned with same if infirm or aged, is the prudent course, IMO. Right now, we're having to ride the train of being somewhat "system", but we need to be prepared to have another train up to speed running alonside to fully jump to, when the time comes. I believe when we abandon denial and do all we in our particular circumstances can do, and trust in God, that He will meet us and fill in at our point of obedience. The presumptuous one who thinks they are going to hedge their way through, not wanting to change or lift a finger, will not be rewarded, nor will the fearful one wanting to be fully prepared in their own strength, as I understand it.
Rex Jackson
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Keep in mind one in 2-3 families gardened back then.
One in 3-4 used horses for transportation.
Not so many nations were dependent on the dollar back then.
US was not so dependent on Chinese made crap back then
Not so many nations were dependent on out exports of food back then
Not so many dependent on welfare, and government supplied medical.
Not so many were dependent on gasoline and oil
Mostly all country people back then lived off the grid
Most country people farmed or fished
Game and Fish was more plentiful back then
Im sure I can come up with a few dozen more if I tried. There will be no comparison when the crash hits.
One in 3-4 used horses for transportation.
Not so many nations were dependent on the dollar back then.
US was not so dependent on Chinese made crap back then
Not so many nations were dependent on out exports of food back then
Not so many dependent on welfare, and government supplied medical.
Not so many were dependent on gasoline and oil
Mostly all country people back then lived off the grid
Most country people farmed or fished
Game and Fish was more plentiful back then
Im sure I can come up with a few dozen more if I tried. There will be no comparison when the crash hits.
Outstanding! Thanks for writing, UncurledA
"Duty is ours, consequences are God's"
General Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson
I think that's the hardest part for some people to accept-that it may very well be a for long time. That it is more of a lifestyle.
Heirloom/op seeds and livestock are good as they keep reproducing. And then you can add value by making products with them. And of course the brass to protect them.
Wine, beer, kefir, yogurt can be rolled over for new batches.
Flippper
Time Traveler
What we are witnessing is the destruction of the middle class, per Marx's Communist Manifesto. With only a lower and upper class, our nation as we have known it becomes a turd whirled country as planned.
The biggest differences between today's depression and the depression of 70 years ago is, this one is manufactured in great detail, they have technology not even imagined back in the 30's to maintain and create any crisis they desire, they own more of the information outlets, the entitlement crowd exists and Communists are in every nook and cranny of government at all levels to follow through on the globalist agenda.
Ultimately global governance is what this is all about, and the UN is the HQ for that, Kissinger-obama-bush-clinton-pelosi-nixon-carter-reagan et al are/were nothing but agents for the globalists. As more and more people begin to awaken to that reality, the NWO folk will naturally have to move faster. Expect night raids on homes to confiscate weapons (I suspect that is how it will be carried out) and remember, because of the GPS census they know where you live and how to get in.
Remember the first rumblings of this financial earthquake were felt most when they started jacking gasoline prices up. Ours are back up to $2.99.999 now. Watch them hike everything up sky high so no one can buy anything and their money is essentially worthless. I'm not sure if the NAU is still a 'go', I imagine it is, which at that point likely will be announced. That is mere speculation on my part, but all of this is related. All nations are slated to collapse into chaos I believe, then the NWO can step in and create their 'order'. I'm not sure at what point the genocide begins, but they have alluded to human eradication and the Bible clearly speaks of the state of the planet at this point in time.
Should be some interesting times ahead.
The biggest differences between today's depression and the depression of 70 years ago is, this one is manufactured in great detail, they have technology not even imagined back in the 30's to maintain and create any crisis they desire, they own more of the information outlets, the entitlement crowd exists and Communists are in every nook and cranny of government at all levels to follow through on the globalist agenda.
Ultimately global governance is what this is all about, and the UN is the HQ for that, Kissinger-obama-bush-clinton-pelosi-nixon-carter-reagan et al are/were nothing but agents for the globalists. As more and more people begin to awaken to that reality, the NWO folk will naturally have to move faster. Expect night raids on homes to confiscate weapons (I suspect that is how it will be carried out) and remember, because of the GPS census they know where you live and how to get in.
Remember the first rumblings of this financial earthquake were felt most when they started jacking gasoline prices up. Ours are back up to $2.99.999 now. Watch them hike everything up sky high so no one can buy anything and their money is essentially worthless. I'm not sure if the NAU is still a 'go', I imagine it is, which at that point likely will be announced. That is mere speculation on my part, but all of this is related. All nations are slated to collapse into chaos I believe, then the NWO can step in and create their 'order'. I'm not sure at what point the genocide begins, but they have alluded to human eradication and the Bible clearly speaks of the state of the planet at this point in time.
Should be some interesting times ahead.
Been saying that for years too. Total different mindset and people and it is gonna be messy one way or the other.
lectrickitty
Great Great Grandma!
I hope it won't have a severe effect on many of us. Remember the words in a song... "somebody told us Wall street fell, but we were so poor that we couldn't tell"? That's how most of my friends feel.
They raise their own food, don't spend money in town very often, and so far don't feel a lot of the strain on finances. They don't have 401's, they have stock in the fields. They don't buy feed, they raise it. They don't consider their home to be an investment for profit, they consider it an investment to leave to their children.
As long as they can afford to keep paying the real estate tax on their places, they'll probably keep on keeping on and not notice much in the way of a depression.
They raise their own food, don't spend money in town very often, and so far don't feel a lot of the strain on finances. They don't have 401's, they have stock in the fields. They don't buy feed, they raise it. They don't consider their home to be an investment for profit, they consider it an investment to leave to their children.
As long as they can afford to keep paying the real estate tax on their places, they'll probably keep on keeping on and not notice much in the way of a depression.
"...A little over a year ago, I wrote in a thread here, calling the tip-over and saying that the pollies were done for. I got flamed a little for being too negative..." -Cory
Lotsa folks have trouble dealing with reality as it really IS.
Amazingly enough, this happens even when reality is right in front of their nose.
You've always been one to speak of ground-truth, local observations, etc.
How can anyone seriously argue with such data?
Hard to see how anyone could have seen your comments as being anything but realistic, honest and rational.
Lotsa folks have trouble dealing with reality as it really IS.
Amazingly enough, this happens even when reality is right in front of their nose.
You've always been one to speak of ground-truth, local observations, etc.
How can anyone seriously argue with such data?
Hard to see how anyone could have seen your comments as being anything but realistic, honest and rational.
"... His kids do not have college in their future..."
DW and I were just discussing the number of kids who thought they had their next four years all planned out and now don't.
BTW. I find it interesting that I am the only one on this board who sees wage and price controls and rationing in the future. Everybody else sees rioting in the streets, burning buildings, jackboots in battalion formation and so on
I see long lines of people quietly waiting to get their prescribed ration of fuel, food, housing assignment etc.
Odd, the difference when we both agree that somebody out there wants to control everything. Why allow riots when they can be prevented by controls on everything?
As Trotsky pointed out, people standing in lines are not getting into mischief somewhere else. And to make sure order is kept, you need police, lots of them.
DW and I were just discussing the number of kids who thought they had their next four years all planned out and now don't.
BTW. I find it interesting that I am the only one on this board who sees wage and price controls and rationing in the future. Everybody else sees rioting in the streets, burning buildings, jackboots in battalion formation and so on
I see long lines of people quietly waiting to get their prescribed ration of fuel, food, housing assignment etc.
Odd, the difference when we both agree that somebody out there wants to control everything. Why allow riots when they can be prevented by controls on everything?
As Trotsky pointed out, people standing in lines are not getting into mischief somewhere else. And to make sure order is kept, you need police, lots of them.
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cory
Inactive
sorta
I'm seeing it split into the preppers and the non-preppers.
Those who paid down debt, saved, lived within their means, amp'ed up their skills, did the work, built a support network of like-minded do-ers, know how to cook and make coffee, will do OK.
I've detailed my journey on W-RP, each career decision, every twist and turn. The result is that over a 10 year span, I've watched the pollies fall behind.
Between 2000 and 2005, during the aftermath of the so-called dot-com bust, a bunch of us were scrambling.
The work that we did and the skills that we built have served us in the last couple years.
We are not "rich" in the classic sense. We're what used to be called the middle class. The prep-lifestyle which is learning, working, living smart, has surged ahead.
It's not MRE's, ammo, that's just too weird. It's about having a job skill and a couple back up skills AND knowing how to make a good spaghetti dinner. I think the secret is in the onions and carefully cooking the pasta al-dente.
It's about doing the work at work.
Steady work plus thrift give us a powerful edge over the pollies.
That makes us the new aristocracy.
I'm seeing it split into the preppers and the non-preppers.
Those who paid down debt, saved, lived within their means, amp'ed up their skills, did the work, built a support network of like-minded do-ers, know how to cook and make coffee, will do OK.
I've detailed my journey on W-RP, each career decision, every twist and turn. The result is that over a 10 year span, I've watched the pollies fall behind.
Between 2000 and 2005, during the aftermath of the so-called dot-com bust, a bunch of us were scrambling.
The work that we did and the skills that we built have served us in the last couple years.
We are not "rich" in the classic sense. We're what used to be called the middle class. The prep-lifestyle which is learning, working, living smart, has surged ahead.
It's not MRE's, ammo, that's just too weird. It's about having a job skill and a couple back up skills AND knowing how to make a good spaghetti dinner. I think the secret is in the onions and carefully cooking the pasta al-dente.
It's about doing the work at work.
Steady work plus thrift give us a powerful edge over the pollies.
That makes us the new aristocracy.
cory
Inactive
Well yes but it works in cities too.
Cities get a bad rap because they are loaded with pomposity bomb detonating pollies.
"ooo-ooo, I need my morning Starbucks with the cardboard ring. It's only $5.00 but it makes me look important."
The secret is this. Cash makes the world work. The trick is to have a job, earn cash, and then don't spend yourself into oblivion.
If you can earn $60,000 but spend $40,000 for food, utilities, mortgage, taxes, etc. you can bank the extra and in 10 years, have $200,000 socked away.
Back in 2005, I was a wage-slave in corporate America. I watched pollies buy 6-wheel and "Eddie Bauer" trucks to drive to the office.
I heard them yaking about "Take-out-Taxi" and taking out 125% mortgages so they could buy $6,000 Plasma TeeVees.
They booted me out to "save themselves". I called a man I know and he put me work fulltime at a good increase. The pollies tried to do what I did but it was too hard for them, the work languished, they've all been fired since. One got a job with a janitorial company.
All over this planet, cities are where the action is. It's OK to live rural but if you want any quality of life, you depend on being close to a city.
Cities get a bad rap because they are loaded with pomposity bomb detonating pollies.
"ooo-ooo, I need my morning Starbucks with the cardboard ring. It's only $5.00 but it makes me look important."
The secret is this. Cash makes the world work. The trick is to have a job, earn cash, and then don't spend yourself into oblivion.
If you can earn $60,000 but spend $40,000 for food, utilities, mortgage, taxes, etc. you can bank the extra and in 10 years, have $200,000 socked away.
Back in 2005, I was a wage-slave in corporate America. I watched pollies buy 6-wheel and "Eddie Bauer" trucks to drive to the office.
I heard them yaking about "Take-out-Taxi" and taking out 125% mortgages so they could buy $6,000 Plasma TeeVees.
They booted me out to "save themselves". I called a man I know and he put me work fulltime at a good increase. The pollies tried to do what I did but it was too hard for them, the work languished, they've all been fired since. One got a job with a janitorial company.
All over this planet, cities are where the action is. It's OK to live rural but if you want any quality of life, you depend on being close to a city.
Volleyball Granny
Inactive
I don't have a huge imagination (OK, I probably do), so I just want to live in the house my grandparents built, plant a garden, and teach my students. If hard times are coming, fine...been there, done that. If we're talking poor people, hungry people, but willing to work people, I'll be OK. But, if we're talking rioting Zombie hoards, I need to find an army.
cory
Inactive
I don't think it will be like that.
I'm more w/ your vision but mine is not as ominous.
Basically, the world has run out of cheap resources and has too many people who don't want to study and work.
They want sit around, get fat, look important, and go "waa-waa-waa" all day. The term for them is "useless pollies".
As the world runs out of oil, even a 10% shortfall jacks the price of fuel way up. As that price goes up, things that use oil become more dear to operate and simultaneously less valuable to own. Big GM cars are one of them. Chrysler made V10 sports cars and "gangsta-mobiles".
The pollies swarmed out of DeeCee and bought oversized McMansions in places like Manassas. The higher cost to get from the city jobs to these places reduced the value of exurban McMansions. My small place in the city has held value.
On the other hand, people who learned multiple skills and are willing and eager to work, are productive.
The productive people should do OK. Some will experience temporary hard times. I sure did in the 2001-2005 timeframe with the worse about 2003.
I fought back by broadening my skills. I used to work 100% on mainframes, my last gig was DFSMShsm, CA-7, IBM tape robots. That work dried up when my last client shut down their mainframe datacenter. I lost my contract work about 2 years before the shutdown. You could see it coming. Some mainframers managed to stick it out until the end. I think they are still out of work. "Them that dies early, them's the lucky ones..." .... Ben Gunn Treasure Island.
Times were really hard back then but I found a gig doing websites. It was a scut job working for idiots and it paid about half what I had been earning. I eagerly took half-pay because I knew half is a whole lot better than zero.
Since then, I've built my skills, added more skills, and have a local rep as an expert but more important, a rep as someone who gets the work done.
My rate has increased from 50% of 1998 to about 85% of 1998. It's still low but I got a 70% increase over what I was earning in 2004.
Add in that I've been driving down my expenses relentlessly. First because I had to, then because I wanted to see what I could really do.
My average monthly electric bill is $25. Most of that is a high efficiency frost-free refrigerator. I do one load of laundry each week. I use a low power laptop, not a big desktop machine with fans going. Lights? All CFLs, some are 4 and 8 watts. I don't bother turning off the 4 watt CFLs, they use too little power to bother with. I don't use a TeeVee. Summers, I use a window unit in my small bedroom, where I hole up with my laptop. I sleep cool on another $10/month.
I started trying to save water. My bill had been about $20/month ($60-$70/quarter). It turns out that the water bill has minimum charges. They will not bill less than $10/month.
Cell fone, Sprint $35 to T-Mobile, which I haven't used in 3 months. It still has the starter minutes in it. I plan to pick up a $100 card today, which according to the wise man here, will give me bonus minutes. $35 sprint down to maybe $10 T-mobile? The $15/month or $180/year, $1,800 decade will go right in my coffee can.
Cut expenses, do the best job you can for your employer, build your skills, invest your money and pay down debt, help out at work. Practice saying, "Sure, I think I can get that done for you by COB today."
Don't give them a chance to go elsewhere. Keep grabbing work, keep learning. Live low to the ground. Appreciate a good bowl of red-beans and rice.
Do it for 5 or 10 years and as the pollies slide into the abyss, you'll be left standing. Even if your employer tanks, you'll have the skills and connections to jump to another.
When a company implodes, the better workers run away, find jobs, and then pull like-minded workers with them.
Caution advised - I could not find a DFSMShsm, CA-7, Rexx job around here. I had to change my expertise completely.
I'm more w/ your vision but mine is not as ominous.
Basically, the world has run out of cheap resources and has too many people who don't want to study and work.
They want sit around, get fat, look important, and go "waa-waa-waa" all day. The term for them is "useless pollies".
As the world runs out of oil, even a 10% shortfall jacks the price of fuel way up. As that price goes up, things that use oil become more dear to operate and simultaneously less valuable to own. Big GM cars are one of them. Chrysler made V10 sports cars and "gangsta-mobiles".
The pollies swarmed out of DeeCee and bought oversized McMansions in places like Manassas. The higher cost to get from the city jobs to these places reduced the value of exurban McMansions. My small place in the city has held value.
On the other hand, people who learned multiple skills and are willing and eager to work, are productive.
The productive people should do OK. Some will experience temporary hard times. I sure did in the 2001-2005 timeframe with the worse about 2003.
I fought back by broadening my skills. I used to work 100% on mainframes, my last gig was DFSMShsm, CA-7, IBM tape robots. That work dried up when my last client shut down their mainframe datacenter. I lost my contract work about 2 years before the shutdown. You could see it coming. Some mainframers managed to stick it out until the end. I think they are still out of work. "Them that dies early, them's the lucky ones..." .... Ben Gunn Treasure Island.
Times were really hard back then but I found a gig doing websites. It was a scut job working for idiots and it paid about half what I had been earning. I eagerly took half-pay because I knew half is a whole lot better than zero.
Since then, I've built my skills, added more skills, and have a local rep as an expert but more important, a rep as someone who gets the work done.
My rate has increased from 50% of 1998 to about 85% of 1998. It's still low but I got a 70% increase over what I was earning in 2004.
Add in that I've been driving down my expenses relentlessly. First because I had to, then because I wanted to see what I could really do.
My average monthly electric bill is $25. Most of that is a high efficiency frost-free refrigerator. I do one load of laundry each week. I use a low power laptop, not a big desktop machine with fans going. Lights? All CFLs, some are 4 and 8 watts. I don't bother turning off the 4 watt CFLs, they use too little power to bother with. I don't use a TeeVee. Summers, I use a window unit in my small bedroom, where I hole up with my laptop. I sleep cool on another $10/month.
I started trying to save water. My bill had been about $20/month ($60-$70/quarter). It turns out that the water bill has minimum charges. They will not bill less than $10/month.
Cell fone, Sprint $35 to T-Mobile, which I haven't used in 3 months. It still has the starter minutes in it. I plan to pick up a $100 card today, which according to the wise man here, will give me bonus minutes. $35 sprint down to maybe $10 T-mobile? The $15/month or $180/year, $1,800 decade will go right in my coffee can.
Cut expenses, do the best job you can for your employer, build your skills, invest your money and pay down debt, help out at work. Practice saying, "Sure, I think I can get that done for you by COB today."
Don't give them a chance to go elsewhere. Keep grabbing work, keep learning. Live low to the ground. Appreciate a good bowl of red-beans and rice.
Do it for 5 or 10 years and as the pollies slide into the abyss, you'll be left standing. Even if your employer tanks, you'll have the skills and connections to jump to another.
When a company implodes, the better workers run away, find jobs, and then pull like-minded workers with them.
Caution advised - I could not find a DFSMShsm, CA-7, Rexx job around here. I had to change my expertise completely.
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"...As the world runs out of oil, even a 10% shortfall jacks the price of fuel way up. As that price goes up, things that use oil become more dear to operate and simultaneously less valuable to own. Big GM cars are one of them. Chrysler made V10 sports cars and "gangsta-mobiles". .."
To make sure that precious energy is fairly 'allocated', it will be rationed. Give me the power to ration energy and I will control every facet of your life; what you eat, where you live, what you live in, how you get around, right down to the very clothes you wear. I will control all that.
And the best thing, when Mr Ammo/gun manufacturer comes in for his 'allocation', I will grin to my back teeth and tell him that I have decided that his ammo/guns are not socially useful, so will not get an allocation of such a scarce resource as energy.
There is a reason why the Cultural Left savagely resists any proposal that might increase the supply of economically viable energy in this country. Jimmy the Wimp showed them that energy control will finally get them the power they have lusted for since FDR.
To make sure that precious energy is fairly 'allocated', it will be rationed. Give me the power to ration energy and I will control every facet of your life; what you eat, where you live, what you live in, how you get around, right down to the very clothes you wear. I will control all that.
And the best thing, when Mr Ammo/gun manufacturer comes in for his 'allocation', I will grin to my back teeth and tell him that I have decided that his ammo/guns are not socially useful, so will not get an allocation of such a scarce resource as energy.
There is a reason why the Cultural Left savagely resists any proposal that might increase the supply of economically viable energy in this country. Jimmy the Wimp showed them that energy control will finally get them the power they have lusted for since FDR.
cory
Inactive
I'm sure that's the plan...
My feeling and I guess I'm a minority even here, it to run it hands off. If there is a shortage, let the price ration the goods and services.
I paid $4.35/gallon last year for regular but it was brief and I could see the dumb pollies making changes in their consumption patterns.
I . did . not.
I did not like paying $50 to fill up the cory-mobile every week or so. I sure did not like the $200 total each month.
The cory-mobile is a 2000 Nissan Sentra, 5 speed stick-shift, fuel injected, 4 banger. It gives 30+ mpg in mixed 50-50, city-highway driving. Normally I drive about 25 miles/day but was going to Baltimore once or twice a week.
My usage is low because I live in the city, close to jobs, stores, etc.
The pollies, and I have specific ones in mind, drive guzzlers like 6 wheel extended cab trucks and V12 sports cars to the office. That's one clueless polly getting 6, 7 mpg in an excess-mobile, lurching in the worse traffic from 30 miles out, or more.
Those pollies whined about paying $125 for a fillup and $500/month. They began cutting back usage, driving their kid's car, trading down, car-pooling, not because they got smart but because the unseen hand of the free market grabbed them by the neck and began choking them.
We do things because we see the value. We make choices because they are in our best interest.
Pollies do things because someone tells them to. Pollies believe in Leadership, like Barry. Pollies want to be told what to do. Starbucks tells the polly that so-so coffee with a cardboard ring will make them big and important. Polly will spend a fortune on that, 4 and 5 bucks at a time.
I think between the economic forces and our prep-smart people, we can keep things going. That doesn't help the pollies. They're toast.
My feeling and I guess I'm a minority even here, it to run it hands off. If there is a shortage, let the price ration the goods and services.
I paid $4.35/gallon last year for regular but it was brief and I could see the dumb pollies making changes in their consumption patterns.
I . did . not.
I did not like paying $50 to fill up the cory-mobile every week or so. I sure did not like the $200 total each month.
The cory-mobile is a 2000 Nissan Sentra, 5 speed stick-shift, fuel injected, 4 banger. It gives 30+ mpg in mixed 50-50, city-highway driving. Normally I drive about 25 miles/day but was going to Baltimore once or twice a week.
My usage is low because I live in the city, close to jobs, stores, etc.
The pollies, and I have specific ones in mind, drive guzzlers like 6 wheel extended cab trucks and V12 sports cars to the office. That's one clueless polly getting 6, 7 mpg in an excess-mobile, lurching in the worse traffic from 30 miles out, or more.
Those pollies whined about paying $125 for a fillup and $500/month. They began cutting back usage, driving their kid's car, trading down, car-pooling, not because they got smart but because the unseen hand of the free market grabbed them by the neck and began choking them.
We do things because we see the value. We make choices because they are in our best interest.
Pollies do things because someone tells them to. Pollies believe in Leadership, like Barry. Pollies want to be told what to do. Starbucks tells the polly that so-so coffee with a cardboard ring will make them big and important. Polly will spend a fortune on that, 4 and 5 bucks at a time.
I think between the economic forces and our prep-smart people, we can keep things going. That doesn't help the pollies. They're toast.