ECON This Isn't Your Grandmother's Recession

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http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=756406

This isn't your grandmother's recession

By KRISTI L. GUSTAFSON, Staff writer
First published in print: Sunday, January 4, 2009

So you've reduced your stops at Starbucks to once a day, put off buying a new car and even canceled that cruise to the Bahamas. At least you had those things to cut back on.

"For the past 20 or so years, we have been on a consumption kick that is out of proportion with anything we've had in history," says Scott Spiker, CEO of First Command Financial Services in Fort Worth, Texas. "It's almost an opiate to which our society is addicted."

When Americans feel financial pressure, they scale back, eliminating not just big-ticket items like cars and homes but things as diverse as morning coffee, unnecessary clothing and high-end meats on the dinner table.

History shows luxuries are the first to go, says Adrian Masters, an associate professor of economics at the University at Albany.

In early December, high-ticket-price purchases posted a 34.5 percent drop from the same time period last year, according to MasterCard's SpendingPulse unit. The division estimates total retail sales across all forms of payment, including cash and checks. This is the greatest drop seen in this sector since tracking began in 2002.

In November, Seattle-based Starbucks said same-store sales in the U.S., or sales at locations open at least a year, dropped 8 percent during the company's fiscal fourth quarter as fewer customers came into the stores.

According to food marketing expert Phil Lempert, people are eating out less and supermarket sales are up nationwide.

"Instead of taking their kids to McDonald's for chicken McNuggets, people are choosing to buy Banquet frozen nuggets at the grocery store and get four times as much for the same price," he said.

According to a study conducted in October by an independent research group for ConAgra Foods, nearly one-quarter of employed Americans are bringing their lunches to work more often this year than they were last year, and 57 percent said given recent concerns about the economy, they are more inclined to do so. In addition, two-thirds of the 1,000 Americans surveyed said the economy has them rethinking their day-to-day food purchases.

During the Depression, silk stockings were a hot and highly desired commodity people gave up, recalls Lillian Yonally, 86.

A resident of the Beltrone Living Center in Colonie, Yonally says that during the Depression, people watched what they ate and made new outfits from old clothes. She remembers her childhood friends wearing "repurposed" clothing.

"Their mothers would take their fathers' coat and make it smaller," Yonally says. "There was time to do things like that and not money to buy new ones."

While today's working mothers aren't likely to start ripping apart sport coats, they are likely to take a pair of shoes to a cobbler for new heels, or have the zipper repaired on an old purse, according to area shoe repairmen, who have seen increased business in recent months.

Vacations were a rarity during the '30s, Yonally says. If anything, people took day trips rather than going anywhere that required an airline ticket or passport. Now, annual vacations — however brief — are as common as a family having more than one car.

"By today's standard, what they gave up didn't look like luxuries, but to them they were luxuries," Masters says. "We live in more affluent times, and there is a new set of affluent goods we could cut back on."
Big-ticket purchases such as cars, major appliances and even homes are being postponed — and the manufacturers of those items are suffering.

"People are nervous about going into debt, so items that require taking a loan are going to struggle," Masters says.

He points to the drowning automotive industry as the prime example. Fancier cars will be hit harder than more basic models, but no manufacturer is going to thrive, he says.

Historically, people don't curb spending solely because they lack funds, says Mark Stevens, author of "Rich Is a Religion" and CEO of MSCO, a marketing firm based in Rye Brook, Westchester County. Real cutting back results from being scared of the financial unknown.

Fear overcomes the desire to consume, Stevens says. "Almost everything becomes a luxury, except what you need for your health or to eat."

And the Consumer Confidence Index fell to a historic low in December. The index, measured by the Conference Board, a private research group, fell to 38 last month, the lowest point since the group began compiling the index in 1967.

One thing that makes the current economic crisis worse than the one in the 1930s is credit cards.

During the Depression, people who wanted to buy goods could do so only within their means. On rare occasions, if they needed to stretch, they could have gotten credit at one store. Today, consumers can rack up debt on credit cards, multiple personal loans and massive mortgages.

"We have the ability now to get in worse trouble than we even could then," Stevens says.

So what's going to lift us out of this barrel and get people spending again?

Time.

When consumer confidence rises and unemployment decreases, consumers pay off debt and stocks rebound. Money is freed up for lenders to distribute and, in turn, more people have dollars to spend.

"They aren't going to go on spending sprees, but they'll spend incrementally and the economy will rebound," Stevens says.

Making something as simple as a venti latte seem like a necessity again.
 

summerthyme

Administrator
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"Instead of taking their kids to McDonald's for chicken McNuggets, people are choosing to buy Banquet frozen nuggets at the grocery store and get four times as much for the same price," he said.

Yep... we've got a LONG way to go before *most* people get anywhere near the level of deprivation and economizing that was common in the last Depression.

We've barely started, though.

People who haven't studied the Great Depression generally thing about "the Crash" of the market, and *maybe* the "Dust Bowl" as being the entire thing. And they generally don't realize that the "crash" was only an early warning sign- the general public, who weren't really invested heavily in stocks, didn't begin to feel the real pain of the Depression for a couple of years afterwards.

Most people didn't have all that far too fall, either... the "Roaring Twenties" were very much a huge bubble, and the inventions which preceded that spending spree were so new and different that most adults of that time hadn't had time to get used to using a refrigerator, for example, before theirs was repossessed and they had to go back to using an ice box.

Even most of the farmers hadn't changed over completely to tractors and other mechanized farming... and those who had, almost universally had hung onto their horse drawn equipment. Going "back" wasn't painless, certainly, but it wasn't anything like the sacrifices and changes THIS generation is going to have to experience.

When consumer confidence rises and unemployment decreases, consumers pay off debt and stocks rebound. Money is freed up for lenders to distribute and, in turn, more people have dollars to spend.

Well... maybe. Eventually. However, we've got a LONG way to go DOWN, before we can begin to get to that point. And then, there's that pesky "paying off of debt" thing to deal with, before people can start spending again. Got a generation or three to wait?

Summerthyme
 
We just finished the movie, "Kit Kitteredge: An American Girl". It was an excellent movie w/a hint of what it was like to live through the depression. It was a good, mild look for my little kids, yk? Not too scary.
 

rafter

Since 1999
You can't compare the two. If you took away all the govt entitlements of unemployment, govt housing, welfare, social security, etc. What would today's world look like?
 

breezyhill

Veteran Member
You can't compare the two. If you took away all the govt entitlements of unemployment, govt housing, welfare, social security, etc. What would today's world look like?

ummm, I think detroit, during the riots in the 60's, is what it's going to look like.

Breezyhill
 

Satanta

Stone Cold Crazy
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ummm, I think detroit, during the riots in the 60's, is what it's going to look like.

Breezyhill

No because we have a thousand times the amount of people now who cannot reason themselves out of a folded paper bag.

We also have a thousand times as many people who have never had a real job and simply do not know what work is.

A thousand times as many people alive who simply cannot work because of health issues that would not have been alive back then.

And an insane world of people all bent on destrying one-another.
 

breezyhill

Veteran Member
No because we have a thousand times the amount of people now who cannot reason themselves out of a folded paper bag.

We also have a thousand times as many people who have never had a real job and simply do not know what work is.

A thousand times as many people alive who simply cannot work because of health issues that would not have been alive back then.

And an insane world of people all bent on destrying one-another.

hi sat,

then wouldn't your post just extrapolate what I said, detroit-60's-riots, by 1000? or more?

or, are you saying that there won't be riots?

just askin'

Breezyhill
 

Satanta

Stone Cold Crazy
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breezy-if it sinks then today will make the '60's riots look like a Sunday church BBQ in Mayberry.
 

kytom

escapee from reality
No because we have a thousand times the amount of people now who cannot reason themselves out of a folded paper bag.

We also have a thousand times as many people who have never had a real job and simply do not know what work is.

A thousand times as many people alive who simply cannot work because of health issues that would not have been alive back then.

And an insane world of people all bent on destrying one-another.
so true. alot of these people cant fold a paper bag. everytime i drive during the day i see so many cars on the road. people not working. how many people dont work? unbelieveable!!! we are in for a world of hurt when the silver spoon gets yanked out!!
 

FREEBIRD

Has No Life - Lives on TB
"...we have a thousand times the amount of people now who cannot reason themselves out of a folded paper bag.

We also have a thousand times as many people who have never had a real job and simply do not know what work is.

A thousand times as many people alive who simply cannot work because of health issues that would not have been alive back then.

And an insane world of people all bent on destrying one-another."
__________________

We also have a high proportion of the population ("working" and otherwise) who do not have basic living skills---they cannot cook a meal, sew on a button let alone re-make clothing, or plant a seed in the ground and get anything useful from it.
 

Hansa44

Justine Case
And millions who don't have the sense to set back even a months worth of food, even if it's just beans and rice!

When we had the snowstorm in Portland, OR a couple weeks ago and most could not get out for 5 days or more, I was amazed to hear a woman with 3 kids say, they ran out of food the third day and had to live on candy and nuts.

If this is a sign of things to come we are in a far worse mess than I thought. What happens if they CAN get out and have no way to get food. This is a nightmarish thought!
 
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