OP-ED "Protesting Against Israel or Hating Jews?"

kozanne

Inactive
I bolded the line which I believe best summarizes the article and gets close to the truth behind the 'anti-Israel' card carriers.....

www.americanthinker.com


Protesting Against Israel or Hating Jews?
By Richard L. Cravatts

The anti-Israel demonstration of some 200 to 300 people outside the Ft. Lauderdale courthouse on December 30th , which took place on the same day in other major American and European cities, gave Palestinian supporters yet another excuse to decry Israel: this time because of its recent incursions into Gaza to counterstrike Hamas personnel and infrastructure, and the Jewish state's attempt to stop the barrages of 6300 rockets that have rained down on southern Israel since 2005.


The members of A.N.S.W.E.R. Coalition: Act Now to Stop War & End Racism and the Muslim American Society who attended Tuesday's demonstration apparently were not sufficiently concerned when rockets and mortars were launched almost daily into Israel from Gaza by Hamas, aimed at civilian targets for no other reason than the intended victims were Jews. Once Israel retaliated with targeted strikes against Hamas, however, and some 400 Palestinians were killed (most of whom were Hamas terrorists), civilian casualties were immediately elevated by Israel's worldwide critics to "crimes against humanity," "genocide," and "disproportionate" responses.


What was particularly revealing, and chilling, about the Ft. Lauderdale demonstration was the virulence of the chants and messages on the placards, much of it seeming to suggest that more sinister hatreds and feelings-over and above concern for the current military operations-were simmering slightly below the surface. Several of the protestors, for instance, carried signs saying "Nuke Israel," a sentiment that was also shouted out to pro-Israel counter-demonstrators standing across the street.


Now the notion of using of a nuclear device to eliminate Israel and thereby attempting to kill its roughly 5 million Jews is not a unique one, since words to that effect are regularly uttered, among others, by Iran's raving president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who dreams of such apocalyptic final solutions. What is unique is the morally-defective logic that would enable someone to justify a second Holocaust, the mass murder of Jews, on the basis of Israel having defended itself from years of rocket attacks and having killed several hundred murderous terrorists in the process. Making the Middle East free of Jews, Judenfrein, is exactly what Hamas, the group of murderous thugs being cheered on by the demonstrators here, ardently longs for; Hamas' charter, in fact, expresses as one of its core tenets that Israel should be eliminated, that "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."


Other protestors were less overt in their angry protestations, carrying signs and shouting out the oft-heard slogan, "Free Palestine," or, as it is generally expressed when the odious messenger has sufficient time and space, "Palestine will be free, from the river to the sea." That phrase suggests the same situation that the nuclear option would help bring about, namely that if "Palestine" is "liberated," is free, there will of course be no Israel between the Jordan River and Mediterranean, and no Jews.


So the careless talk about the so-called "occupation" of the West Bank and previously of Gaza, or disputes over the 1967 borders, or the division of Jerusalem, or the construction of Jewish settlements in Judea and Samaria is obviously all meaningless, merely a smokescreen put up by the enemies of Israel to disguise the fact that they have no intention of living peacefully in their own state beside a Jewish one because they have no intention of letting the Jewish one exist. Hamas' charter announces quite clearly "that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up."


The most frightening incident during the demonstration, caught on video by Tom Trento, director of the Florida Security Council, and one which reveals the actual nature of the naked hatred of the pro-Hamas demonstrators, involved a Muslim-American woman in headscarf who was taunting the (presumably) Jewish counter-protestors across the street. She first screams that someone's "mother is a whore," but finding that a little ineffective she then reaches for something that captures the particularity of the event and screams, "Go back to the ovens. You need a big oven. That's what you need," suggesting, in a rather insensitive way, that if Hamas is not able to eliminate Jews in the Middle East successfully, wouldn't it be convenient to be able to ship Jews back to the crematoria of the Nazi's Final Solution?


This demonstrator's ugly and revealing comments expose what many have thought of Israel's most virulent critics for some time -- that if you scratch the surface of an Israel-hater long enough, you will eventually find a Jew-hater lurking below. Even critics of Israel as odious as Ahmadinejad never publicly admit that they despise Jews. He merely loathes the "Zionist regime." The argument always goes something like this: it's not that they hate Jews; it's only Zionism or Israeli policies they abhor.


So the British university lecturers union can call for boycotts of Israeli academics because of Zionist policies; or two American professors can write about an ominous "Israel Lobby" while they actually question the motives, and loyalty, of American Jews; or a former American president can accuse Israel of "apartheid" as opposed to peace; or Arab states and the UN can continually denounce the alleged ongoing "ethnic cleansing" or "genocide" of the Palestinians at the hands of the brutal Zionist regime; and all of them can escape what should be painfully obvious: that they despise and want to dismantle Israel not because its policies or actions are so beyond acceptable standards of nationhood, but precisely because Israel is, and always will be, the Jew among nations.
 

Kronos

Inactive
Thank you kozanne. This is a serious distinction.

It is, IMO, akin to equating the USA citizen with the USA government.

A person of Jewish ethnicity (religious or not) or faith (ethnic or not),
is IMO *not* equivalent to being a representative of Israeli government.

A citizen, just generally, is not synonymous with the government which owns them.

It is a distinction which sorely needs to be made and held clear in any disputes.
 

SarahLynn

Veteran Member
As someone pointed out on the thread which contained the link to Tom Trento's YouTube video: "What ovens"?

Haven't the Muslims denied the Holocaust all along?
They even deny that Israel has any history in the ME!

As the saying goes, it's somehow fitting to see these pathological liars hoist on their own petard.

Is Ahmadinejad not one of the main proponents of Holocaust denial in recent times? Didn't Mahmoud Abbas write a university disertation which was itself a Holocaust-denying treatise?
That sewer-mouthed woman in the video merely succeeded in letting the world know what kind of person she is by the language she used.
 

Desperado

Membership Revoked
What a crock......So what you are saying is everyone that critizies Israel is a jew hater. Your words not mine.
that if you scratch the surface of an Israel-hater long enough, you will eventually find a Jew-hater lurking below.

So the British university lecturers union can call for boycotts of Israeli academics because of Zionist policies;
Do they not have the right?

two American professors can write about an ominous "Israel Lobby" while they actually question the motives, and loyalty, of American Jews;
Is the AIPAC lobby now off limits too/

a former American president can accuse Israel of "apartheid" as opposed to peace;
He was there and called it like he saw it, Have you been there and have first hand knowledge that refutes his claim?

Arab states and the UN can continually denounce the alleged ongoing "ethnic cleansing" or "genocide" of the Palestinians at the hands of the brutal Zionist regime;

Doesn't matter the US has vetoed all sanctions brought up against israel.

So what do you suggest Kozanne?
Make anything negative said about Israel illegal? Maybe we can use the same laws that they have in Europe that makes questioning the holocaust a felony. We just need to change the wording. Then anyone that says any thing negative about Israel will be serving time.
Looks like that is what you are suggesting.
 

kozanne

Inactive
Under the surface, where the PC police can't catch ya, yes, Jew haters.

Is it illegal to be a Jew hater? No, not that I'm aware of. So what's the problem?

"Zionism" is an old trick with words; it takes a basic hatred and politicizes it. I think this article called it what is really is. Not always a comfortable feeling.
 

nanna

Devil's Advocate
I could give a flying f*** about how one defines one's religiousity.

I don't hate anyone, but I'd say that hate dominates the actions of many, including those who cannot be criticized due to PC rules.


nanna
 

Desperado

Membership Revoked
"Zionism" is an old trick with words; it takes a basic hatred and politicizes it. I think this article called it what is really is. Not always a comfortable feeling.

You didn't answer the question. I asked if you want to make it illegal?
Why is it you cant question the actions of Israel without be called a jew hater or are you putting Israel above questioning? Sure seems so.
 

Ender

Inactive
I could give a flying f*** about how one defines one's religiousity.

I don't hate anyone, but I'd say that hate dominates the actions of many, including those who cannot be criticized due to PC rules.


nanna

I now remember why I love you, nanna.

:p
 

kozanne

Inactive
You didn't answer the question. I asked if you want to make it illegal?
Why is it you cant question the actions of Israel without be called a jew hater or are you putting Israel above questioning? Sure seems so.

Good Lord, Desperado, I posted an article. Think what you want. You will anyway.
 
You

go Nanna.


"I don't hate anyone, but I'd say that hate dominates the actions of many, including those who cannot be criticized due to PC rules."




YEP. you can go to prison in Europe and Canada for even questioning all the dogma about the Holocaust. And there are plenty of hypocrite Americans who espouse free speech and the First Amendment but who would jump at the chance to imprison ANYONE who dares debate their first love.


What is forbidden should be questioned. And NO minority should rule over everyone.
 

Desperado

Membership Revoked
And I'm not going to. You don't get to tell me what to do.....

Like I said, think what you want.

Ok, I think you would be more than happy to see laws passed to make it illegal to criticize Israel, I also don't think you value free speech very much either.
 

Kronos

Inactive
This is kozanne's thread. That makes it 'protected speech'.

Dissenting views need open a new thread, advisedly in TIO

JMO
~~~

"get with the program"
 

Desperado

Membership Revoked
This is kozanne's thread. That makes it 'protected speech'.

Dissenting views need open a new thread, advisedly in TIO

JMO
~~~

"get with the program"

New Rules .....have to love it.
It is called a discussion board for a reason. If the only posts in a thread were people agreeing with it, then it would be called a yes board.
Protected Speech:lkick::lkick:
 

SarahLynn

Veteran Member
Lots of people criticize Israel...but they manage to find ways to do it without standing on street corners calling people "losers" and yelling at passers-by that their "mother was whore;" they register their beliefs without feeling the need to call for the end of a legitimate UN member nation by violent means. One can make legitimate protest without crossing the street, as these loons did, and attempting to violently confront another group who are there peacefully making their feelings known.

Were such people to have their way, and eventually rule here, no one else would have the freedom to do what they do freely on the streets of America.
That imam assuring us about the "beauty of Islam" made me think, "I certainly don't see it in the actions of your people here today sir."
His comment that people would "have no choice" but to accept Islam ought to chill the bones of any sane person.
 

Desperado

Membership Revoked
Were such people to have their way, and eventually rule here, no one else would have the freedom to do what they do freely on the streets of America.
That imam assuring us about the "beauty of Islam" made me think, "I certainly don't see it in the actions of your people here today sir."
His comment that people would "have no choice" but to accept Islam ought to chill the bones of any sane person.

Sarahlynn if you read Kozannes post she was talking about anyone that criticize Israel. She even went on to mention others besides the demonstrators to emphasize her point.
and yes I know she didn't write the article.
 

kozanne

Inactive
Sarahlynn if you read Kozannes post she was talking about anyone that criticize Israel. She even went on to mention others besides the demonstrators to emphasize her point.
and yes I know she didn't write the article.

Get your story straight when you're talking about me, mister.

I did not mention anyone else besides the demonstrators, in fact, other than my opening comment, I mentioned nothing and no one.

If you have to resort to lying about someone to validate your viewpoint, you have a bigger problem than this thread.
 

SarahLynn

Veteran Member
Sarahlynn if you read Kozannes post she was talking about anyone that criticize Israel. She even went on to mention others besides the demonstrators to emphasize her point.
and yes I know she didn't write the article.

It seemed to me that she was talking about the kinds of people in the article.
I would think the same thing about them-in fact I did. Their true agenda did come out-Tom Trento commented on the fact that things got more intense after the imam led in prayer-it was as if something came over them-and they were on their way to confront the pro-Israel group who were demonstrating peacefully across the street.
And that girl yelling at them to go back to the ovens-I've heard that sentiment from more Muslims than I can keep track of. I think alot of people harbor secret jealousies and hatreds against Jews and
I have found that beneath the surface of MANY who are anti-Israel IS a definite anti-Semitism. It comes out sooner or later.
 

Desperado

Membership Revoked
Get your story straight when you're talking about me, mister.

I did not mention anyone else besides the demonstrators, in fact, other than my opening comment, I mentioned nothing and no one.

If you have to resort to lying about someone to validate your viewpoint, you have a bigger problem than this thread.

Let me point out the last two paragraphs of the article you posted:
This demonstrator's ugly and revealing comments expose what many have thought of Israel's most virulent critics for some time -- that if you scratch the surface of an Israel-hater long enough, you will eventually find a Jew-hater lurking below. Even critics of Israel as odious as Ahmadinejad never publicly admit that they despise Jews. He merely loathes the "Zionist regime." The argument always goes something like this: it's not that they hate Jews; it's only Zionism or Israeli policies they abhor.

So the British university lecturers union can call for boycotts of Israeli academics because of Zionist policies; or two American professors can write about an ominous "Israel Lobby" while they actually question the motives, and loyalty, of American Jews; or a former American president can accuse Israel of "apartheid" as opposed to peace; or Arab states and the UN can continually denounce the alleged ongoing "ethnic cleansing" or "genocide" of the Palestinians at the hands of the brutal Zionist regime; and all of them can escape what should be painfully obvious: that they despise and want to dismantle Israel not because its policies or actions are so beyond acceptable standards of nationhood, but precisely because Israel is, and always will be, the Jew among nations.

The article is talking about more than the demonstrators.
 

Topusaret

Deceased
You didn't answer the question. I asked if you want to make it illegal?
Why is it you cant question the actions of Israel without be called a jew hater or are you putting Israel above questioning? Sure seems so.

So perhaps you would like to take this opportunity to prove Kozanne wrong in what you perceive as her belief.

Why not take this chance in a public way in this public forum to express your love for Jews and the Jewish religion in the same way that you claim to express only your hatred of Israel and Zionism?
 

Kronos

Inactive
Get your story straight when you're talking about me, mister.

I did not mention anyone else besides the demonstrators,
in fact, other than my opening comment, I mentioned nothing and no one.

If you have to resort to lying about someone to validate your viewpoint,
you have a bigger problem than this thread.

I suspect that the poster you vilify had, in actuality,
not intended to convey that you had ORIGINATED those particulars.

Only in a sideways way, had you,
as you had BOLDED those points, albeit that you had not ORIGINATED them.

>If you have to resort to lying about someone to validate your viewpoint,
> you have a bigger problem than this thread.

Cheap Snipe / gratuitous personal attack. Irrelevant to context.
 

Desperado

Membership Revoked
So perhaps you would like to take this opportunity to prove Kozanne wrong in what you perceive as her belief.

Why not take this chance in a public way in this public forum to express your love for Jews and the Jewish religion in the same way that you claim to express only your hatred of Israel and Zionism?

Dude, I have no love for any organized religion.
Person to Person I have no problems with anyone.
 

SarahLynn

Veteran Member
Dude, I have no love for any organized religion.
Person to Person I have no problems with anyone.

It is true, however, that you have never (to my knowledge), said one good word about either Israel or Jews, which lends credence to Kozanne's bolding of the paragraphs she highlighted.

Why is it you cant question the actions of Israel without be called a jew hater or are you putting Israel above questioning?

Because those people who are merely "questioning the actions of Israel" so very often call for policies which will hurt only Israel, such as divestment from Israeli industries. Why don't they ever call for divestment from tyrannical dictatorial Islamic regimes who routinely enslave and beat women, often for frivolous crimes, kill gays, and maim children? NEVER do they call for punishments for the other side.
 

Topusaret

Deceased
Dude, I have no love for any organized religion.
Person to Person I have no problems with anyone.

Only hate for one particular organized religion, as expressed over and over again. Sometimes you can be too close to the trees, ya know? If you asked 100 TK2Kers whether Desperado hated Jews, what do you think the percentage would be? Perception only...it's a powerful thing.
 

Kronos

Inactive
It is true,
however, that you have never (to my knowledge), said one good word
about either Israel or Jews,
which lends credence to Kozanne's bolding of the paragraphs she highlighted.

I have never said one good word about the political process.

Does that make me a hater? an anarchist? a [something foul]?

Sheesh... the logic displayed in here does betimes seriously boggle :-(
 

Desperado

Membership Revoked
It is true, however, that you have never (to my knowledge), said one good word about either Israel or Jews, which lends credence to Kozanne's bolding of the paragraphs she highlighted. .

If I criticize the Vatican it doesn't mean I hate Catholics.
However according to the logic shown here, I would be accused of hating Catholics too.
 

Desperado

Membership Revoked
Only hate for one particular organized religion, as expressed over and over again.

It will not matter what I say. I have never stated hate for one particular organized religion, as expressed over and over again. Only a country.
One that professes to be our ally but its actions speak differently.
 
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Topusaret

Deceased
It will not matter what I say. I have never stated hate for one particular organized religion, as expressed over and over again. Only a country.
One that professes to be out ally but its actions speak differently.

Perceive it as you wish, as will I.

Being our ally does not equate to being our toady, particularly when the ever-changing political landscape and policies expressed are detrimental to their existence as a nation.
 

KateCanada

Inactive
People need to have rocks in their head to not support that tiny nation of Israel.
Don't even bother talking to me if you support the terrorists. Idiots! Our nations tried to help them all and they still killed us.

Somebody has to say it and I will as a Canadian. **** You, you bastards killing our kids. I will slit your throat you jerks if you come near me and I will encourage my government as a citizen to kick your ass all the way to hell by any means we can. Canada is brilliant, run for the hills assholes. I'm done!

I say GO ISRAEL! Kick their ASS like a Canadian!!!!! Go for it!!!! We beat Russia tonight, oh yes, Canada did. Kick their ass, make your people safe and proud. Got your back in Canada.
 

SarahLynn

Veteran Member
If I criticize the Vatican it doesn't mean I hate Catholics.
However according to the logic shown here, I would be accused of hating Catholics too.

But that's ALL you do-thread after thread-at every opportunity. And you do more than criticize, you advocate policies such as the economic abandonment of Israel-that could be downright harmful to the USA and the free world.

I'm not Catholic obviously, but I have much respect for many of the common values I share with them.
If I criticized the Vatican that would be one thing, but to do it at every opportunity, and to NEVER ONCE commend them or agree or have any common ground would justifiably leave me open to charges of anti-Catholicism.
 

SarahLynn

Veteran Member
It will not matter what I say. I have never stated hate for one particular organized religion, as expressed over and over again. Only a country.
One that professes to be our ally but its actions speak differently.

At least you do admit to hating the country Israel. We're slowly getting somewhere.

Now, WHY is that country there at all? COULD it possibly have anything to do with the Jewish race and the Jewish religion??
 

KateCanada

Inactive
I will be non political correct at this moment and what is happening where our boys are sent to work by our governments okay. Got that job in your head.

Want faces of our young.
They grew up here and think like us.
They were scared.
They went dammit BECAUSE TOWERS WERE LEVELED. FOR US ALL!!!!
They deserve to make things right for us. Get the **** away from me you do not agree. I AM CANADIAN! KISS MY ASS! **** YOU! I WILL KILL YOU!

AMEN.

My position is the protection of Israel as a Canadian. I would DIE for that country as I would for my own where I was born and the USA my brother-sister. Screw you if you do not like me. That is me and my life and I WILL
FIGHT like our Canadians boys and WIN! Suck it up!!!!
 

Kronos

Inactive
At least you do admit to hating the country Israel. We're slowly getting somewhere.

Now, WHY is that country there at all?
COULD it possibly have anything to do with the Jewish race and the Jewish religion??

> At least you do admit to hating the country Israel.
> We're slowly getting somewhere.

Quite slowly, whilest applying pseudo 'logic'

Where are 'we getting', by your presumptions, there?

> At least you do admit to hating the country Israel.

No such thing was stated or implied, much less 'admitted'.

Just my observations, as a spectator to the dialogue.
 

Kronos

Inactive
I will be non political correct at this moment and what is happening
where our boys are sent to work by our governments okay.
Got that job in your head.

Want faces of our young.
They grew up here and think like us.
They were scared.
They went dammit BECAUSE TOWERS WERE LEVELED. FOR US ALL!!!!
They deserve to make things right for us.
Get the **** away from me you do not agree.
I AM CANADIAN! KISS MY ASS! **** YOU! I WILL KILL YOU!

AMEN.

My position is the protection of Israel as a Canadian.
I would DIE for that country as I would for my own where I was born
and the USA my brother-sister.

Screw you if you do not like me.

That is me and my life and I WILL FIGHT
like our Canadians boys and WIN!

Suck it up!!!!

Kate

You ramble, here.

PUI?
 

KateCanada

Inactive
Hey New Word Introduced from a Canadian! Grow some balls people!

**** OFF!!

Love Canada.

Is it not time to become pissed off. I am feeling that.
 
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