INTL UK police to get power to demand ID anytime...on threat of prison if you refuse

Fred

Middle of the road
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...wers-demand-ID-street--pain-sending-jail.html

Big Brother police to get 'war-time' power to demand ID in the street - on pain of sending you to jail

State officials are to be given powers previously reserved for times of war to demand a person's proof of identity at any time.

Anybody who refuses the Big Brother demand could face arrest and a possible prison sentence.

The new rules come in legislation unveiled in today's Queen's Speech.

They are presented as a crackdown on illegal immigration, but lawyers say they could be applied to anybody who has ever been outside the UK, even on holiday.

The civil rights group Liberty, which analysed clauses from the new Immigration and Citizenship Bill, called them an attempt to introduce compulsory ID cards by the back door.

The move would effectively take Britain back to the Second World War, when people were stopped and asked to 'show their papers'.

Liberty said: 'Powers to examine identity documents, previously thought to apply only at ports of entry, will be extended to criminalise anyone in Britain who has ever left the country and fails to produce identity papers upon demand.

'We believe that the catch-all remit of this power is disproportionate and that its enactment would not only damage community relations but represent a fundamental shift in the relationship between the State and those present in the UK.'

One broadly-drafted clause would permit checks on anyone who has ever entered the UK - whether recently or years earlier.

Officials, who could be police or immigration officers, will be able to stop anyone to establish if they need permission to be here, if they have it, and whether it should be cancelled.

No reasonable cause or suspicion is required, and checks can be carried out 'in country' - not just at borders.

The law would apply to British citizens and foreign nationals, according to Liberty's lawyers. The only people who would be exempt are the tiny minority who have never been abroad on holiday or business.

A second clause says that people who are stopped 'must produce a valid identity document if required to do so by the Secretary of State'. Failure to do so would be a criminal offence with a maximum penalty of 51 weeks in jail or a £5,000 fine.

Currently, police are allowed to ask for identity documents only if there is a reasonable suspicion that a person has committed an offence.

During the Second World War, ID cards were seen as a way of protecting the nation from Nazi spies, but in 1952 Winston Churchill's government decided they were not needed in peacetime.

They were thought to be hindering the police because so many people resented being asked to produce them.

Liberty director Shami Chakrabarti said last night: ' Sneaking in compulsory identity cards via the back door of immigration law is a cynical escalation of this expensive and intrusive scheme.'

Tory spokesman Damian Green said: 'This scheme will do nothing to improve our security, may make it worse, and will certainly land the taxpayer with a multi-million bill.

LibDem spokesman Chris Huhne said: 'Ministers seem to be breaking their promise that no one would ever have to carry an ID card. This is a sly and underhand way of extending the ID card scheme by stealth.'

There was also concern last night that the Government is seeking to revive controversial plans for secret inquests.

The measure - which would have let the authorities hold a hearing like the Jean Charles de Menezes inquest behind closed doors - was removed from counter-terrorism legislation earlier this year.

But it could be re-introduced as part of a Coroners and Death Certification Bill.

Other Bills set to be unveiled include plans to extend flexible working and new laws giving every employee the right to request time off to train.

These have been widely criticised by business leaders who warn that extending employees rights will damage small firms.

Under a new welfare crackdown, benefit cheats will lose their handouts for one month and council staff will be given powers to use 'lie detector' technology to root out fraudsters.

Dole claimants who refuse to seek work could be made to dig gardens as punishment or they may be ordered to spend an entire nine-to-five day in an office looking through vacant jobs.

Plans for a crackdown on cigarette sales are being reviewed, and a new statutory code of conduct to govern the banks has been added to the list of forthcoming Bills.

The Speech is reported to have undergone last-minute changes, driven by Business Secretary Peter Mandelson, to reflect the economic crisis.

But he is said to have failed in a bid to block health measures on tobacco sales.

Of the Bills dropped altogether, the most high-profile is the Communications Data Bill, which would have created a giant 'Big Brother' database of phone calls, emails and internet visits.

The Home Office said last night it had no intention of making people carry ID cards.

A spokesman said: 'It is simply wrong to claim there are any plans whatsoever to make identity cards compulsory for British citizens or to require British citizens to have an ID card at all times and present it when asked.

'To maintain effective immigration control it is only right that we ask everyone attempting to enter the UK to produce a valid identity document.'
 

fredkc

Retired Class Clown
State officials are to be given powers previously reserved for times of war to demand a person's proof of identity at any time.

Not sure how many, but a lot of US States have such laws on the books. Here in California, you are not required to say a single word to a policeman, but you are required to identify yourself on demand.
 

Fred

Middle of the road
Not sure how many, but a lot of US States have such laws on the books. Here in California, you are not required to say a single word to a policeman, but you are required to identify yourself on demand.
Are you sure about that, even when they don't have any suspicion you've been involved in something nefarious?

The ACLU says:
Regardless of your state's law, keep in mind that police can never compel you to identify yourself without reasonable suspicion to believe you're involved in criminal activity. Rather than asking the officer if he/she has reasonable suspicion, test it yourself by asking if you're free to go.

If the officer says you’re free to go, leave immediately and refrain from answering any additional questions.

If the officer detains you, you'll have to decide whether withholding your identity is worth the possibility of arrest or a prolonged detention. In cases of mistaken identity, revealing who you are might help to resolve the situation quickly. On the other hand, if you're on parole in California, for example, revealing your identity could lead to a legal search. Knowing your state's laws can help you make the best choice.

Keep in mind that the officer's decision to detain you will not always hold up in court. ‘Reasonable suspicion' is a vague evidentiary standard, which lends itself to mistakes on the officer's part. If you're searched or arrested following an officer's ID request, always contact an attorney to discuss the incident and explore your legal options.

(source)
 

Double_A

TB Fanatic
Not sure how many, but a lot of US States have such laws on the books. Here in California, you are not required to say a single word to a policeman, but you are required to identify yourself on demand.

I'm not sure that's completely correct any more. Yes at one time there was a law on the books. But, it is my understanding the law was dropped decades ago due to Cal Supreme Court validating a challenge. Now the police can request you identify yourself but you need only do so VERBALLY. Challenge IIRC was due to the fact that their is no legal requirement for a citizen to carry government ID, so how could you be required to produce it.

We need to get a Calif Criminal Attorney to chime in.
 

Nerdling

Inactive
"Am I free to go?" is the first thing I learned when dealing with the police.

If you are stopped and you don't know why then it should be your first and only line until you get an affirmative or a negative.
 

BL225128

Inactive
Unless one is a muslim, in which case he'll be allowed on his way without a problem.....

And probably the police officer will be disciplined for being "racist" and engaged in "racial profiling".

Ironic that the England that once spread the values of human liberty is now collapsing into the cesspit of despotism.
 

Richard

TB Fanatic
****ing new labour are the ultimate filth, will a member of the labour party please reply
they are introducing ID cards and a national database , ****ing blair ****ing brown ****ing vermin\


new labour have never clamped down on immigration ever, they have caused the problem, now everyone has to endure a fascist NWO state because of that vermin


this law will only apply to the people that new ****ing labour hate
 
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