EDUC Science ed shocker: some A students today score 0% in 1965 test

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0%: What this year's top science pupils would have got in 1965

CSE students flunk past papers in experiment that exposes decline in standards

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/e...ce-pupils-would-have-got-in-1965-1036889.html

By Richard Garner, Education Editor
Thursday, 27 November 2008



High-flying GCSE students set for an A or A* pass scored zero points in a mock science exam which included old O-level questions.

The two-hour exam, devised by the Royal Society of Chemistry (RSC) and named "The Five Decade Challenge", included questions from past science papers spread over the past 43 years.

The results published today showed the older the paper, the fewer marks the students scored. For instance, the average score for the 2005 paper questions was 35 per cent, compared to 15 per cent for the 1965 questions.

Overall, the average score was 25 per cent but the RSC said some children scored no marks at all. The RSC called the test, taken by just over 1,300 of the country's brightest 16-year-olds, the first hard evidence of a "catastrophic slippage" in exam standards.

In a petition launched on the Downing Street website, the RSC says the current examination system was "failing a generation, which will be unequipped to address key issues facing society, whether as specialist scientists or members of a scientific community".

Too many teachers were "teaching to the test" because of the pressure of performance league tables, so students were missing out on background information to help them understand their subject. Despite taking into account syllabus changes which meant certain topics – such as enthalpy and bond energies – were not tackled until A-level, the results, it argued, provided conclusive proof that the papers had become easier. In particular, it added, today's pupils lacked the maths skills necessary to tackle the calculations associated with equations.

Dr Richard Pike, chief executive of the RSC, said: "The brightest pupils are not being trained in mathematical techniques, because they can get a grade A* pass without doing a single calculation. Conversely, the majority get at least a 'good pass' (grade C) by showing merely a superficial knowledge on a wide range of issues but no understanding of the fundamentals.

"The fact highly-intelligent youngsters were unfamiliar with these types of questions, obtaining on average 35 per cent from recent papers and just 15 per cent from the 1960s, points to a systematic failure and misplaced priorities in the education system."

The top mark was 94 per cent. The average was 33 per cent for independent schools, 23 per cent for state schools, 27 per cent for boys and 23 per cent for girls. "Children are being asked questions that show our curriculum isn't preparing them for the 21st century," said Michael Gove, the shadow Education Secretary.

A campaign to recruit 6,600 science teachers in the next two years is being launched today by the Training and Development Agency, which is responsible for teacher recruitment. It is exceeding its recruitment target for science teachers by two per cent this year.

"The Schools minister thinks science should be made more 'girl-friendly'. How so? By studding lab coats with pink rhinestones?"

Sophie Morris, page 45

In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.

*****

From personal experience, this is true locally as well. An old lady (80+) had a degree in chemistry from the local University. She told me a few years back that a young college girl she knew was studying for exams at the same U. The old dear was shocked when she saw the material the girl was studying. It was the level of what she'd studied in high school chemistry! Apparently only grad students these days get what she'd learned in college. She was deeply concerned that the knowledge we took for granted simply wasn't being passed on to the young, but was effectively being let die on the vine.

In the same vein, I've noticed a decline between what I had to produce in literary works in HS, compared to my kids. Here's one little example:

We were writing poetry in iambic pentameter by 9th grade. Now they do haiku. Now true Japanese Haiku is written in the most difficult language in the world, with extremely challenging nuances for a westerner to grasp, in a precise mathematical form of syllable counts (as is Iambic pentameter), combining contrasting images, seasonal references.

To say our kids are writing "haiku" in english is like applauding them for making music with no notes and no rhythm. The teachers don't require anything but short lines and imagery from their kids. It's just awful to see standards of output collapse, disguised as "world culture". Nonsense! Our kids would get crossed-eyed and pass out on the floor if they were required to understand the relationship between Japan's different writing forms, hirigana, katakana, and kanji, and how they are placed together in the same piece of writing, much less learn to write in true Japanese form. Our kids aren't being required to use their heads for anything.

This is a five alarm fire, educationally. We've just got to get a handle on how serious this has become. I tried to supplement my kids' educations, but it was expensive (I quit my day job for years) and time-consuming, not something that can be done on a large scale.

Ideas are welcome!
 

Thunderbird

Veteran Member
In my opinion a high school diploma from 1960 or before was as useful as a college degree today. Employers tend to agree, a college degree seems to be necessary for all but the most mundane of jobs.
 

Cruiser

Membership Revoked
I work for an insurance company and get to read some things that college graduates write today, I write a better grocery list. :lkick:
 

Freeholder

This too shall pass.
I teach an after-school Bible club in two local public schools and have to wait for the classroom to empty at one school, which means I usually spend ten minutes or so standing in the hall staring at the work put on the walls by the 6th-grade class across the hall. I homeschooled my children, and taught for several years in a Christian school, and I would have been ashamed if my second-graders had turned out such poor handwriting, spelling, and grammar as those 6th-graders are doing. Not all of them -- there are a few, three or four in the entire class, who do decent work. But it should be the other way around, only three or four doing substandard work like what I see there. It makes me sick for my grandchildren, who attend public schools.

Kathleen

ETA: one of those grandchildren is pictured in my new avatar.
 

Amanda Blue

Inactive
The problem is that they get the kids so bogged down with the useless facts that they don't have time to learn the concepts. I homeschool my kids, and I have tried a few times to use old public school books, but they are awful. They make everything more complicated than it needs to be, and most of it is useless. I considered a few times sending my kids to school while I finish nursing school, but I don't want all my hard work undone.
 

China Connection

TB Fanatic
It's very funny here in China as I teach English

It's very funny here in China as I teach English. Parents don't like to see their kids given material that the kids don't understand completely. Then they complain that their kids are not learning.

I give my students stuff at the level I want them at by the end of a year. With built in repetition I get very good results. The normal method is to teach a small amount and then not revise it so that the student learns and forgets though lack of revision. So much for modern education!
 

Rastech

Veteran Member
It's Global. The World is going to run out of people able to do ANYTHING, before too long. :(

We're running out of time to turn this around as well. Those with the necessary experience and knowledge are getting to be in age groups for retirement or are already retired.

I also blame decimalisation. The whole system is far too simple, and doesn't build up the necessary neural networks in the brain. It's 12d to a shilling, 20 shillings to a £, 16oz to a lb, 14lb to a stone, 112lb to a cwt, 12" to 1', 36" to 1 yd, 1,760 yds to 1 mile, etc., etc., that gets the kids brains working and doing the necessary business for them.

These aren't stupid children we are talking about, they are very talented, and very intelligent, and they are being let down dreadfully. I had the privilege of being in College with an amazing crowd of youngsters not many years ago, and it really was a genuine privilege to be amongst them. As I see it, they are being deliberately crippled, all around the World.

It is all far too sad for words, and needs sorting out yesterday if not sooner. :(

eta: Amanda, it's the 'complicated' that does the kids the favours while their brains are developing, not the 'simple'. It might sound ridiculous, but I am convinced of it, and especially so after 3 people (including myself) of my generation (each away from education for at least 20 years, so we should have been heavily disadvantaged), walked through 10 2hr pretty heavy maths tests, in literally minutes each test (less than 3 minutes for the first, including redoing all the questions to double check, up to about 15 minutes tops for the last and hardest test), while the youngsters were still struggling to finish at the end of the 2hr tests. It's disgusting to see this done to the kids, and I really can't express just how outraged I am at what has been done to them.
nb. The 3 of us, with our old brains, only dropped 1 point out of 1,000 (10 x 100 for perfect score) and we all dropped that point at the same question, The particular question said to give the answer to the question, but writing down the method was not necessary, and we each got dropped one point for not writing down the method. The closest youngun was about 620 out of 1,000, and most were down at the bare minimum, of 400, or worse. :(
We could do this stuff in our heads, and knew the answer as soon as we looked at the question, in the main - the kids couldn't.
 
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Rastech

Veteran Member
An uneducated next generation should contribute exactly as planned to the coming Dark Ages II.

FLF

.


Store away old school books (and apprenticeship books) if you can get your hands on them, and don't let anyone that's become a teacher since the mid 60's anywhere near the children.
 

Mzkitty

I give up.
Click on the link in the original post above for some very interesting comments various people have made.


.
 

FlyLadyFan

Inactive
From the article at the link:

"Children are being asked questions that show our curriculum isn't preparing them for the 21st century," said Michael Gove, the shadow Education Secretary.

Apparently it isn't preparing them for the 20th century either.

FLF

.
 

almost ready

Inactive
A further question about this:

When I was young (I'm old enough to have aced those 1960's questions at the time), we had quite a few alternative schools, private schools. Many of these closed there doors decades ago. Property taxes forced folks to support public schools even if they didn't use them, paying twice for their kids' educations, but claims of "church-state" separation prevented those same taxes from being funneled into the private schools. As the long economic crunch progressed, fewer people could pay twice, and many private schools folded, starting in the 1970's, and continuing to this day.

Now we're pretty much stuck with public schools in most places, and the alternative "home schooling" is clearly under attack by the cultural totalitarians.

In the age of the internet, there's got to be someone somewhere who is putting together an alternative school system. There are many colleges which do online courses, some do online courses ONLY. Is there anything similar for elementary/hs? If so, do you have personal knowledge of how it's going?

I could see small groups of kids at a neighborhood "one room school house", enrolled in satellite programs in a private school system. Homeschooled essentially, but able to participate in specialized classes offered at a distance. The earphones and mic used in Highschool french labs would work just as well over SKYPE to a teacher far away, for example.

For awhile I was interested in Friedman's school choice movement, but it doesn't begin to address the issues we face.
 

ceeblue

Inactive
In my opinion a high school diploma from 1960 or before was as useful as a college degree today. Employers tend to agree, a college degree seems to be necessary for all but the most mundane of jobs.

In '68 when I graduated, the old folks told me my education was equal to their fifth grade level.
 

Satanta

Stone Cold Crazy
_______________
To an extent, yes, people are dumber. However, to another extent the scientific laws have changed....In 1968 light was considered as only moving in a straight line. We now know it can be bent. Also the ideo of light being stopped would have been inconcievable. We can now do so.

I am not sure if at that time we could break the sound barrier.

Quantum Physics has changed a lot of the old scientific principles and truths.

And that is just one part of the story.
 

Breeta

Veteran Member
i find this thread odd because our family was just discussing this recently - except our discussion was how much MORE they expect from kids than when we went to school!

My 5th grade cousin is already doing algebra!! I didn't know what algebra was until 7th grade - and I was one of the "smart" kids - I got up to Calculus in school, and I think that was the highest level math they taught. My aunt (graduated in the 1960's) talked about the exit math exam they had to take in school and it was basic math. They geared the women more for vocational work such as secretarial skills - typing, shorthand, etc back then.

:shr:
 

Richard

TB Fanatic
new labour like new democrat have destroyed the education system

reasons:

everyone is equal therefore get the same grades

it makes new labour look good with more passes

it makes people easier to control if they're uneducated




will any left winger please deny
 

kytom

escapee from reality
An uneducated next generation should contribute exactly as planned to the coming Dark Ages II.

FLF

.
this is what is going to happen. all of a sudden we will be left to our own devices and we will truly see who we really are. this blessed country is living on the laurels of our parents and grandparents. like the saying goes grandfather to grandson pauper to pauper.
 

almost ready

Inactive
I started Algebra in 3rd grade

i find this thread odd because our family was just discussing this recently - except our discussion was how much MORE they expect from kids than when we went to school!

My 5th grade cousin is already doing algebra!! I didn't know what algebra was until 7th grade - and I was one of the "smart" kids - I got up to Calculus in school, and I think that was the highest level math they taught. My aunt (graduated in the 1960's) talked about the exit math exam they had to take in school and it was basic math. They geared the women more for vocational work such as secretarial skills - typing, shorthand, etc back then.

:shr:

around 1960. So? We also had to do long division and multiplication and learned multiple "tricks" to make it easy to do complex math functions in our heads. Very handy doing comparison shopping in the grocery stores, where some guys sell by ounces, some by pounds, and they love those odd numbers.

My kids did didly-poo "algebra" in second and third grades, but it was just simple stuff. Flashy but shallow. They skipped all the arduous tasks that required real lengthy concentation on a task, on the grounds that their calculators could do it for them. Anything that required a semblance of discipline and the ability to concentrate on one task more than 5 minutes was stricken from the curriculum. Some parents (all asians) went on a protest to the school, through PTA meetings. They were furious their kids were being short-changed. The school finally put simple times-table memorization into the curriculum to appease them, over the teachers' protest.

Look a little more closely at that "algebra".
 

almost ready

Inactive
Breeta, sorry I was so negative yesterday. Back on track

This article prompted me to start looking at what alternatives are popping up to the current failing public schools.

Frankly, we all know there are some fantastic public schools out there, and even though they slip on some things they excel at others. THe problem here is they are becoming scarcer, and the forthcoming budget crunch is likely to worsen the problem. Many (most?) schools are virtually warehouses where the bright and the dull are crammed in together, and the pacing is geared to the slowest, while the bright are drugged to stop their twitching and disturbing the peace in their bored angst. I've been in some such classrooms, volunteering in my kid's classes in Cali. Dreadful.

Found some fascinating websites that support home schooling. In Idaho, for example, there are accredited teachers in 6 core subjects available for online ed use by home schoolers.

Also there are private groups for both elementary and high schools. One looks particularly good - but I went to first grade and started playing the games - actually the math lessons, and then found tetris in the playground. You know how that ended....

One great gap that needs to be filled is the art gap - right brain workouts have been dropped at a faster rate than almost any other area of education. Music and the fine arts are closely linked to math skills and critical thinking. These online programs can't begin to fill that need. Another problem for another day....

http://www.time4learning.com/start/index.htm

(beware Tetris lovers)

There IS HOPE!

Wee haw! So glad to see that the next wave of education is underway.
 
i find this thread odd because our family was just discussing this recently - except our discussion was how much MORE they expect from kids than when we went to school! :shr:

In July, I retired from teaching for 31 years in the public schools. I spent the majority of that time in elementary instructional technology where I worked with children in all curricular areas in grades K-5, as well as coached other teachers in the latest pedagogy. In North Carolina, we have a state mandated curriculum that is comprehensive and rigorous. Additionally, most school districts push students in high school to take Advanced Placement College courses that have extremely high standards for passing. I disagree that a lack of standards or "dumbing down" of the curriculum is why schools and students are failing (and by no means are ALL students failing, either).

Some reasons for failing schools:
  1. Societal issues play a huge role in this. Academics have never really been valued in this country. Smart kids are referred to as Nerds. There is little motivation for students to want to succeed other than to go to a liberal university to play and gain social status. The media fills kids' heads with the latest sports, fashion and entertainment issues, sending a powerful message about priorities.
  2. Discipline issues in the school interrupt the educational process and burn out teachers. Teachers cannot teach when there is little to no order and students cannot learn in this environment. Schools have lost the ability to hold students accountable for their behavior.
  3. Teachers do not put forth the effort to use researched-based, proven strategies in their teaching. It is so much easier to assign students to read the text and answer the questions in the book, even though this strategy has been proven to be ineffective time and time again.
  4. America is the only nation in the world who attempts to educate EVERYONE - from those with disabilities to those who don't want to learn. This is an enormous challenge. Everyone seems to think that teaching is so easy until they actually try it. (Look at the failure rate for lateral entry teachers.)

With this said, I cannot speak to why these supposedly bright UK students did so poorly on the test but I would question the validity of the questions. Is it possible that the 1965 questions simply were not relevant in 2008? If so then it is no surprise that the students would not know the answers. There truly is an information glut in 2008 and what is more important than recall of facts is the ability to use critical thinking skills once the facts have been ascertained.
 
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