LEGAL Legal Question

eens

eens

Nuns with Guns
On Wed I was 'forced', coerced, pressured to sign a paper I did not agree with. I put (under duress) next to my signature.

What legal effect does that statement have on my signature?

A little history on what and why I signed it. I don't want to say too much because this is public.

Wed at about 1:30 2 women came to my house, they were from DCF (state dept of harassment of families) about my nearly 18 y/o son. He'll be 18 in 98 days for crying out loud!! He has been causing a lot of trouble in our home and he chose to move his room into what we call the barn behind our house. It's more of a basement to a barn and was the local post office and had stores in it. So it's not really a barn.

Anyway these social workers insisted on seeing where he lived and I asked them to read the complaint, anonymous of course...nothing in it was accurate and I was disgusted so as I walked away from then I told them I would not talk to them until my husband was here. This is a very important point, you need as many people on your side as they have, one to stay with each invader. I stayed with the female and my husband stayed with the man.

They gave me their card and said they'd be back next week.

Well, 7:30 that night we were invaded by 2 cops and 2 workers and there was a back up cop next store. :sht: They INSISTED on seeing where my son lives, I asked if they need a supena (sp) cop said ,no dcf can go any where any time to see to the safety of a 'child'.

Long story short, DH and I took them to his room they saw that the lies about no heat, no food etc were just that. After about half an hour they left.

Well, an hour later, it's about 9:30 now, the 2 workers were BACK! All nicey nice this time. Against my better judgment I let them in and we talked in my dining room. They were sent back to get me and DH to sign the forms stating what THEY want US to do and THEY will be doing. Like complete investigation, assess safety, CONDUCT HOME VISITS, refer to services as needed. I have a younger daughter (almost 17) who I don't want them to harass or take.

There was NO WAY I wanted to sign that form and I told them so, many times. She kept threatening me, you know, sweet talk about lawyers, daily visits etc and my husband just signaled me to sign the damned forms to get rid of them. Ironically they FORGOT to get his signature, I guess I gave then such a hard time.

This is were I caved into the intense pressure and signed it but must have been inspired because I put (under duress) next to my signature.

I am hoping and praying that that will negate my signature. I am looking into getting a lawyer but wanted a little comfort (if possible) from a legal person here telling me that I did the right thing.

Get ready everyone with children! If this happened to ME it could happen to you, and it's not going to get better in the future!

I feel like I was raped.

Thanks for any insight here.
 
annieb

annieb

Senior Member
State laws

What state are you in? Do you know what you signed? Call a lawyer or your local bar association for a referral. Most states have legal organizations that provide free legal information. I am not a lawyer and cannot give legal advice nor can anybody else that is not a lawyer.
 
CRodgers

CRodgers

אני תומך
Buy a gun and show up with one in your hand next time when you answer the door. Never let them in your house again, and definitely get a lawyer and have him look at a copy of what you signed under duress.

I doubt it will hold up in a court of law especially considering your testimony and what you signed, but according to even the police, CPS didn't have a leg to stand on and they are trying to fill a quota.

Again, and if I might say so myself. Do NOT let them back in your house unless the police are there with a subpoena.

What the police told you was also a lie. If they had heard screams, yes they could enter, or a gunshot but this was not the case, and you could have shut the door in their face and all told the cop through the door to get his supervisor on site. No search can be done without warrant. From what it sounds like, they had none and lied to you to get your approval otherwise they would have just kicked your door in.
 
F

FlyLadyFan

Inactive
GET A LAWYER -- AT ANY EXPENSE -- NOW !!!!!

I'm not a lawyer either, but I think writing 'under duress' next to your signature was brilliant and likely invalidates the document.

Did I mention: GET A LAWYER -- AT ANY EXPENSE -- NOW !!!!!

FLF

.

ETA: Do NOT meet them at the door with a firearm. Unbelievable.
 
W

WingChun

Inactive
I am a Lawyer. Get a lawyer that practices family law Yesterday. Do not wait or think about it. Do not makes threats to anyone. You signed so comply until your lawyer gets in front of a judge. Do not obstruct them in anyway. You signed so the law will back them up until a Judge says otherwise.

Video tape all of your dealings with them. When they come to your door record you signed under duress and you are complying under duress. Record everything they say and do .
 
Cardinal

Cardinal

Chickministrator
_______________
eens, I agree, ignore the gun advice, but talk to an attorney. You need to find out what your rights are in whatever state you live in. Like it or not, these people will likely be in your lives now until BOTH kids turn 18.
 
eens

eens

Nuns with Guns
Thank you for the advice, my friend is getting me the name of a lawyer she knows who has never lost a case against DCF. I'm in CT.
 
oyster_777

oyster_777

Veteran Member
Never ever sign anything.... your signature gives them control. Video tape all future visits.

I would send them a notice stating they cannot show up on your doorstep without sending you a written letter before hand.... failure to do so would result in a fee of $xxxxxxxxxxxxxx. All future conversation are by mail (not phone, not email, not face to face). Play the game... cover your A$$.

Edit to add...

go to http://www.suijuris.net/forum/ and post your original post there. Those boys will know how to turn the tables in your favour.
 
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annieb

annieb

Senior Member
They have to communicate through your lawyer!

I would say all communication would be through the attorney from now on. You should not have any contact directly with them unless your attorney is present.
 
eens

eens

Nuns with Guns
Worrier King said:
Did your son call these people?
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No, I don't know how to say this nicely, he may be a PITA but he is not savvy enough to know that telling his 'guidance' counselor about living in the 'barn' (which isn't the 'barn') would lead to all this trouble.

I am trying to get ahold of my friend who has the name of the good lawyer.

Thanks everyone.
 
O

ofuzzy1

Just Visiting
I'd get a lawyer on this ponto!

I'd record with video anything that happens from now on.

If they don't have a warrant you can deal with by contacting the police and telling them they are trespassing.

I'd aslo be contacting your state attorney's office and file a compaint about the threats.
 
eens

eens

Nuns with Guns
WingChun said:
I am a Lawyer. Get a lawyer that practices family law Yesterday. Do not wait or think about it. Do not makes threats to anyone. You signed so comply until your lawyer gets in front of a judge. Do not obstruct them in anyway. You signed so the law will back them up until a Judge says otherwise.

Video tape all of your dealings with them. When they come to your door record you signed under duress and you are complying under duress. Record everything they say and do .
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Thank you! I am trying to get the lawyer right now.
 
changed

changed

Preferred pronouns: dude/bro
When a policeman or someone else in a government presses you to do anything, say that you would like access to a lawyer. Then if they enter your home or search your car or whatever without your permission, your lawyer can use it against them. He will say our client asked for legal representation and were denied it...everything should be thrown out.
 
G-Man

G-Man

Inactive
He has been causing a lot of trouble in our home and he chose to move his room into what we call the barn behind our house.
He'll be 18 in 98 days - - - - - -
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*** time for your son to visit a relative and or friend somewhere else.....immediately; let him contact them with his new address. (ie :dot5: get him off your property ASAP :dot5:)

Never again allow these people on your property without a warrent! Not even on the porch or front yard.

NEVER show ANY SIGN of violence (as in a gun, swearing, threats, waving your arms or fists etc.) remain calm and cool at all times

sign nothing and say nothing ever again - stop answering your door if necessary.



btw: who reported you in the first place?
 
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P

Publius

On TB every waking moment
Oh you got problems! First you should never sign any thing like that, you did state you signed it with the words duress that may help in your favor. I don't know all thats going on in your home and I don't need to know. Call the sheriff the next time, and get your selfs down to the local magistrate and explain what's going on. Now a lot of these government agencies like C.P.C. work under the guidance of county and state attorneys, so the local magistrate is your best bet for your protection and defense.
 
M

Moto

Inactive
The important point to remember is...DON'T SIGN THINGS JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE ASKS YOU TO. I thought everyone knew this...

Get an attorney. Agencies like this specialize in browbeating people who don't have competent representation.
 
eens

eens

Nuns with Guns
Publius said:
Oh you got problems! First you should never sign any thing like that, you did state you signed it with the words duress that may help in your favor. I don't know all thats going on in your home and I don't need to know. Call the sheriff the next time, and get your selfs down to the local magistrate and explain what's going on. Now a lot of these government agencies like C.P.C. work under the guidance of county and state attorneys, so the local magistrate is your best bet for your protection and defense.
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Nothing bad is going on in my house. My son decided to be disrespectful and not follow one rule so he chose move into the building behind our house. We live on a farm, the upstairs was a hay barn the downstairs, where his room is, was stores at one time and we had our home school classroom in there.

We don't have a sheriff, the cops CAME WITH the social workers! They were on their side. I asked them if they needed a subpoena the COPS said NO they (the social workers) can go anywhere they want when ever they want to to check on safety of a child (remember this guy is 98 days away from being 18!! Safety??? Yeah, right.

I was brow beaten even though I know my rights, they intimidate you and my DH doesn't have a clue so even HE was motioning me to sign. Like I said, they were distracted by me so that they forgot to get his signature!

I have a lead on the best lawyer for these cases but unfortunately no one is around this weekend.

I will make my self scarce next week until I get a hold of her.

Thanks.
 
eens

eens

Nuns with Guns
Moto said:
The important point to remember is...DON'T SIGN THINGS JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE ASKS YOU TO. I thought everyone knew this...

Get an attorney. Agencies like this specialize in browbeating people who don't have competent representation.
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They don't just 'ask you' to sign something, they threaten you until you sign. My DH thought I'd be taken away in handcuffs I was so mad. They threatened with their team of attorneys, daily visits to my house, taking him blah, blah, blah. I am mostly afraid for my daughter who has nothing to do with this!

I wonder if anyone knows what the purpose of having us sign a HIPAA form would be, my husband and me. We did NOT sign those. I NEVER sign them, but after we calmed down a bit I realized I never even looked at those forms to see who they were for, I doubt for my son since there were 2 of them!!!!!!

I can't wait till I talk to the lawyer Monday. Why does this have to be a long weekend???

I even forgot why I don't sign those HIPAA forms in the first place, anyone remember?

Thanks.
 
eens

eens

Nuns with Guns
Publius said:
eens said:
We don't have a sheriff,

There you go! Would you or your husband like a job, The next local election run for Sheriff, the county can't tell you no, its up to the people of you county.
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This is CT, the only things they do here is serve papers and transport prisoners and work the courthouses.
I don't see what good they would do in this situation.

http://www.cga.ct.gov/ps99/pridata/studies/CT Sheriffs System Exec. Sum. Final Report.htm


Sheriffs exist in every state except Alaska. However, the roles and responsibilities of sheriffs in Connecticut differ from their counterparts in many other states because of the absence of county government here. Law enforcement functions performed by sheriffs in many other states are handled by state and local police in Connecticut.

The police who came here were on the DCF workers side. I had NO ONE to call.
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C

CAgdma

Inactive
Get a big notebook, while you are waiting for Monday, and write everything down. Write down the problems you are having with your son. Write down that it was HIS decision to move his bedroom out of the house.

98 days is still 98 days. Does he drive? I don't know about Conn. but here in CA the parents are legally liable for the driving accidents of a minor child. Even if he has his own insurance policy.

Make an exchange: Either he moves back into the house and behaves himself or you suspend his driver's license.

BTW: what are you going to do with him in 98 days? That's too soon for graduation. He's still going to be there until June.

Come June, he's free to go. Ask him where he's going.

Has he talked to his recruiter?

And, call that counselor. I bet he has been feeding her a line. She should have checked with you for the whole story, as a bunch of bs like that coming from a kid that old is usually just that, bs. (A little kid, now that is a different story.)

Clue the husband in. If he didn't sign, then he should have to deal with them. You go hide.

I don't suppose you can sit down with this kid and remind him that life doesn't stop at 18....if he wants a relationship with you in the future, he's going to have to help you get out of this mess that he has caused.

Good luck....and get that attorney!
 
P

Publius

On TB every waking moment
eens said:
Publius said:
This is CT, the only things they do here is serve papers and transport prisoners and work the courthouses.
I don't see what good they would do in this situation.

http://www.cga.ct.gov/ps99/pridata/studies/CT Sheriffs System Exec. Sum. Final Report.htm


Sheriffs exist in every state except Alaska. However, the roles and responsibilities of sheriffs in Connecticut differ from their counterparts in many other states because of the absence of county government here. Law enforcement functions performed by sheriffs in many other states are handled by state and local police in Connecticut.

The police who came here were on the DCF workers side. I had NO ONE to call.
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Thats not a sheriff! Thats a political butt kisser, if the person elected to sheriff knew the what there job really is they can rightfully do it and the state and county will find themselves between a rock and jail cell.:D
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GingerN

GingerN

Veteran Member
A HIPPA form allows them to access all the medical information on the person that it names at the top. DO NOT sign one for anyone other than an insurance carrier when you are applying for insurance and a medical provider so that they can get your prior medical records to better assess your medical conditions. Without that form or a court order they can not access your medical files.
 
h_oder

h_oder

Veteran Member
GingerN said:
A HIPPA form allows them to access all the medical information on the person that it names at the top. DO NOT sign one for anyone other than an insurance carrier when you are applying for insurance and a medical provider so that they can get your prior medical records to better assess your medical conditions. Without that form or a court order they can not access your medical files.
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+100!!!

DO NOT SIGN THE HIPAA FORM!!!!
 
eens

eens

Nuns with Guns
Bret4207 said:
You dIdn't get copies of what you signed? Get that lawyer friend.
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Yes, I got a copy of it. Under duress I 'agreed to' co-operate with DCF. Ensure his basic needs needs are met (remember,he's going to be 18 in about 95 days!), provide safe environment for this almost 18 y/o, and HE will follow all house rules.

THEY WILL:

Complete investigation, Assess safety, conduct home visits!!!, refer family to services as needed.

I can't believe they are wasting their time and money on this kid who will be 18 in 3 months.

I don't have a copy of the complaint. I guess I should have gotten that.

I am waiting for the lawyer to get back to me.

Thanks for the info about HIPAA, at least I stuck to my guns to ONE thing...:shr:
 
Knoxville's Joker

Knoxville's Joker

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Letting any public official into your house is an automatic granting of jurisdiction. Have it clearly posted no trespassing and something stating if you do not have jurisdiction here you are trespassing. I have a printed sign, but I do not know if I have it in electronic format. The sign I am referring to has stopped some raids cold as the cops didn't want a nasty court battle not in their favor.
 
B

Bret4207

Senior Member
Mr./Ms. inbred- I have to ask- why were you going to be raided and what sign could you possibly dream up that would negate a legal search warrant?
 
Palmetto

Palmetto

Son, Husband, Father
What happend to you is a civil tort.

You need to know one word:

DURESS

Call an attorney in your area.

Palmetto
 
M

mostlyharmless

Veteran Member
I'm not sure if any of this helps or not.... Never, ever, ever, under any circumstances, ever consent to a search or invasion of any kind.

NEVER.

Even with a warrant.

Why wouldn't you consent when presented with a warrant? Warrants are issued by judges for all sorts of reasons.. sometimes investigators even lie and withhold information to get one. Sometimes the warrant itself is "defective" -- wrong information, etc. I've even heard officers present warrants that are not even warrants or haven't been signed by a judge yet.

Not all warrants are valid and even if it appears valid, it's entirely possible the warrant and subsequent search (and subsequent fruits of that search) could be ruled invalid (and set aside) by your attorney at a later time.

The key is to simply always state "I do not consent to this search". The presence of a warrant does not force your consent, it has been overridden by the judge. If you invite the folks in, consent to the search, make them coffee, etc... it could be argued that the search was done with your approval, and the warrant need not be valid.

You should also consider picking up the phone, calling 911 and advising them that someone is searching your home without your consent. It would then be on the record.

Good luck with this.
 
S

SassyinAZ

Inactive
I'm going to go the opposite way, not that you've received any bad advice at all, but maybe it is premature.

When they come to investigate (it's mandated), which they did, there is paperwork that goes with it -- my personal experience was, they came, they saw, they left, never to be heard from again. Hopefully, you are as fortunate.

I believe that checklist thing (this is what we're going to do, this is what you're going to do) is how they close out an investigation.
 
eens

eens

Nuns with Guns
SassyinAZ said:
I'm going to go the opposite way, not that you've received any bad advice at all, but maybe it is premature.

When they come to investigate (it's mandated), which they did, there is paperwork that goes with it -- my personal experience was, they came, they saw, they left, never to be heard from again. Hopefully, you are as fortunate.

I believe that checklist thing (this is what we're going to do, this is what you're going to do) is how they close out an investigation.
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Thanks, this is driving me crazy, literally. I called a lawyer today, extremely expensive, but I'll meet with him and have him on hand for just in case.

I hope you're right that they won't be back, I guess we'll see.
 
S

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
Sassyin Az... good thought, actually... but it doesn't sound like it applies here- not if the forms they had them sign (under duress) were basically an "agreement to be followed" *at least* until the son is 18 (with a younger daughter, it's possible they could extend that, unfortunately)

While I know most here hate CPS, etc- and apparently with reason- I have to admit the only contact I had with them, many years ago (the "kid" involved was a toddler- maybe 18 months- and will be 31 next month) was professional, compassionate and painless. The initial report (by an overzealous ER nurse or doctor) was wrong, and they were willing to acknowledge that it was wrong. I was willing to give them enough access to assure them that our house was fit for human habitation , although I didn't let them near my older son. The caseworker acknowledged that HE'D been reported by the ER staff when his daughter broke her arm, and he felt this was a complete waste of time. The final report stated that clearly.

So... I know that they aren't all monsters, and they CAN/DO get it right, at least some of the time.

I'd still get a lawyer, just to make sure I was certain of my rights (and each state CAN vary). I'd be very leery of following some of the advice given in this thread... right or wrong, some of what I'm reading would seem to be an invitation to your own mini-Waco.

Summerthyme
 
S

SassyinAZ

Inactive
I hesitated to post, Summerthyme, as I said I didn't think she got bad advice just perhaps a tad premature, depending on their next move, if any.

I just recall with my own experience (the complaintant is confidential and they never end things as oops so sorry) that those things were standard, sort of their catch-all forms that they can use to make your life miserable if they want to.

It's the if, as always with them, that is unknown.

With me, it was my youngest DD, had a bruise from a soccer game -- she's had a bazillion bruises while playing competitive sports her whole life, but that bruise the new school nurse "advocate" (snorting there) seemed to kick her into over-drive, in retrospect, I was actually more upset with the audacity of the nurse than CPS, they just made me nervous and paranoid, and as eens said, feel like you were "raped."

They did though, interview all my kids, 4 at home at the time, the teachers, the coach and anyone else they had a mind to talk to before they interviewed me or came to the house. They have a certain amount of time in which they have to investigate and make recommendations. The recommendations are either the end of the process or the beginning. BUT, and it's a big but, they do keep their tushies covered in the paperwork maze in case they need to (or the iffy part again, have a mind to) come back.

If they were concerned, they'd have said so and taken action for the son in the barn immediately and not have let him stay in those accomodations.

I do remember signing papers at my house though, pretty much, this is what we talked about, and here's the follow-up.

I absolutely agree though, find out what your rights are ahead of time, eens, certainly where you are now in the process -- don't want to depend on them for that.

And, you don't want to make what already is a bad dream, a nightmare -- that's a hard rope to walk. I certainly agree with you on creating your own mini-waco, which is why I did want to post a different perspective.

I really do hope though that having arrived and not having taken any action, eens and family are just one of the majority of concerns from over-zealous "advocates" that they investigate, unfounded, and in some deep dark file cabinet with generic follow-up that improves their stats for the month.
 
S

SassyinAZ

Inactive
Here's the policy for CT DCF, Response Time for Commencement and Completion of an Investigation

http://www.ct.gov/dcf/cwp/view.asp?a=2639&Q=393958

Department of Children and Families
Policy Manual

CHILD PROTECTIVE INVESTIGATIONS

34-4
Response Time for Commencement and Completion of an Investigation

Policy

All reports of alleged abuse, neglect, or in danger of abuse shall be prioritized, assigned and investigated within specified timeframes.

Definitions

The commencement of an investigation occurs when the investigator attempts to make face-to-face contact with the parent or person responsible for the child's care, and/or with the child(ren).

The completion of an investigation occurs when the investigator has interviewed each family member, including the parents, other adults and all children in the home as well as necessary collateral contacts and determines that the report is substantiated or not substantiated.

Response Times for Commencement of Investigation

The table below presents the required response times for the commencement of an investigation.

Important Note: The response times are calculated from the time of approval of the report by the Hotline supervisor.

The designated times assist in prioritizing investigations. In all cases, investigations should commence as soon as possible.

If the report of child abuse or neglect is determined to be...

Then, the response time for commencing an investigation is...

A situation in which failure to respond immediately could result in the death of, or serious injury to, a child 2 hours

A report of abuse from a school Same Day (see exception below)

A non-life threatening situation which is severe enough to warrant a same day response to secure the safety of the child and to access the appropriate and available witnesses 24 hours

A non-life threatening situation which, because of the age or condition of the child, indicates that a timely response is required 72 hours

Reports of Abuse Received from Schools Except as noted below, when a school makes a report that a child has been abused or is fearful of returning home, the report shall be prioritized for a same day response.

The Hotline worker shall request that the child be detained at the school until the DCF investigator arrives to interview the child.

Exception:

An exception to the above may be made taking into account the child's safety in conjunction with the reporting school system. Such an exception must be approved by a DCF Program Director, and fully documented in the LINK record.

Times for Review and Assignment The Investigation Supervisor shall adhere to the following times for review of a report and assignment to an investigator:

If the Investigation Response Time Is... Then, the Time for Review Is... And the Time for Assignment to an Investigator Is...

2 Hours -- Within 15 minutes of receipt -- Within one hour of receipt

Same Day (for reports of abuse from schools) -- Within one hour of receipt --Within two hours of receipt

24 Hours -- Within one hour of receipt -- Within two hours of receipt

72 Hours -- On the same day as receipt -- On the same day as receipt

Time for Completing an Investigation The investigator shall complete the investigation within thirty (30) calendar days of acceptance of the report by the Hotline supervisor.

Connecticut Department of Children and Families

Effective Date: July 15, 1999 (Revised)
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Here's the investigation process: http://www.ct.gov/dcf/cwp/view.asp?a=2639&Q=393920

Investigation Process

Investigation Process

An investigation of a report of child abuse or neglect continues the process of gathering facts and information already begun during the report-taking phase.

The investigator must acquire and analyze information to determine whether a child has been abused or neglected and is in need of protective services or other services offered by the Department or the community.

Purpose

An investigation of child abuse, neglect or in danger of abuse is a fact finding process to

substantiate or not substantiate reported allegations of abuse, neglect, or in danger of abuse

assure the safety and well-being of children who have been abused or neglected

begin the Department’s relationship with a family by providing information about the Department’s mandate and the investigation process

gather evidence in a responsible and professional manner within the law
provide adequate information on substantiated reports in order to facilitate a complete assessment by child protective service staff.

Who Conducts Investigations?

Investigations of child abuse, neglect or in danger of abuse are conducted by the following DCF staff:

child protective investigators located in the Department’s regional offices throughout the state who respond to reports of abuse and neglect when the regional offices are open

or

child protective Hotline investigators who are on-call to respond to reports of abuse and neglect when the regional offices are not open.

Coordination with Law Enforcement The DCF investigator may request the assistance of police, as needed,

when there is a concern for the safety of the investigator

to gain access to the child; e.g., to enter the home, for a 96-hour hold, or an Order of Temporary Custody (OTC).

DCF shall always notify the police in cases of

sexual abuse
severe physical abuse
severe neglect
death of a child.

In these situations, efforts shall be made to conduct a joint investigation with the police.

Cross-References:

33-6-18, "Notification to State or Local Police..."
34-6, "Entrance to Client’s Home"

Investigation Tool The investigator shall utilize the Department’s computer system (LINK), including the Investigation Protocol (DCF-2074) to guide and document the investigation activity.

Investigation Determination To complete an investigation, the investigator must make a determination that the allegation is either substantiated or not substantiated as child abuse or neglect.

Note: An allegation of "in danger of abuse" must be substantiated or not substantiated as "abuse" or "neglect".

Investigation Determination Condition

Substantiated

Reasonable cause to believe that child abuse or neglect has occurred.

Not Substantiated

Lack of reasonable cause to believe that child abuse or neglect has occurred.

Connecticut Department of Children and Families Effective Date: October 1, 1996 (Revised)
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That last one will tell you why the police came back with them (to gain access to your son versus any other allegations).

Did the form you signed say whether the complaint was "substantiated" or "not-substantiated?"

Oh heck, here's the link for the investigation section: http://www.ct.gov/dcf/cwp/view.asp?a=2639&Q=378348

The investigation itself: http://www.ct.gov/dcf/cwp/view.asp?a=2639&Q=393950

And, here's the link for the entire manual: http://www.ct.gov/dcf/cwp/view.asp?a=2639&Q=321506
 
B

Bret4207

Senior Member
scubasteve said:
I'm not sure if any of this helps or not.... Never, ever, ever, under any circumstances, ever consent to a search or invasion of any kind.

NEVER.

Even with a warrant.

Why wouldn't you consent when presented with a warrant? Warrants are issued by judges for all sorts of reasons.. sometimes investigators even lie and withhold information to get one. Sometimes the warrant itself is "defective" -- wrong information, etc. I've even heard officers present warrants that are not even warrants or haven't been signed by a judge yet.

Not all warrants are valid and even if it appears valid, it's entirely possible the warrant and subsequent search (and subsequent fruits of that search) could be ruled invalid (and set aside) by your attorney at a later time.

The key is to simply always state "I do not consent to this search". The presence of a warrant does not force your consent, it has been overridden by the judge. If you invite the folks in, consent to the search, make them coffee, etc... it could be argued that the search was done with your approval, and the warrant need not be valid.

You should also consider picking up the phone, calling 911 and advising them that someone is searching your home without your consent. It would then be on the record.

Good luck with this.
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Steve, I'm sure you mean well, but I think you watch WAY too much TV. If someone shows up with a warrant you're bound by law to allow the search. Call your lawyer, clam up, do whatever you want, but if you try and block the search you're resisting and will be arrested.
 
eens

eens

Nuns with Guns
SassyinAZ said:
That last one will tell you why the police came back with them (to gain access to your son versus any other allegations).

Did the form you signed say whether the complaint was "substantiated" or "not-substantiated?"
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Thank you for all that helpful info Sassy!

The paper I signed says on the top, Service Agreement/Safety Plan

The purpose of this agreement is to ensure that the parents and DCF representative are aware of what needs to be accomplished to ensure that the children involved are safe and well cared for. For case goals, refer to the Treatment Plan if one is in effect.

The parent or legal guardian will do the following:

She wrote in:
Parents will allow J to reside in the home and have access to all amenities.

(My comment not on the paper: Even though he told them he wants to stay living where he is and was never told not to move into the house. )

PARENTS WILL CO OPERATE WITH DCF :mad:

Parents will ensure that J's basic needs are met.

Parents will provide a safe environment for J.

Then this one that is written in what looks like different handwriting, weird. The other conditions are written slanting left, this is slanting right...

J will follow all house rules. :lkick:

Then the form has:

DCF representative will do the following:

Complete investigation
Assess safety
CONDUCT HOME VISITS
Refer family to services as needed

This is what I signed under duress. And remember he will be 18 in 91 days...:boohoo:

I haven't heard from them since that 'visit'. I told J not to talk to anyone at school about this. I figure DCF will be there sometime.

And they will be back here eventually, I wonder if they will call first.

Thanks everyone! I am a bit calmer this week but I am not going to be caught off guard again. It's real fun living like this...
 
W

Warthog

Tusk Up
You should have never signed that paper. Your son must have said something at school. Keep them away from public school counselers. Your daughter too. You need to listen to Alex Jones show, he talks about this all the time.
 
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