ECON Subprime Suspects

Kalliope

Inactive
Subprime Suspects
The right blames the credit crisis on poor minority homeowners. This is not merely offensive, but entirely wrong.

Daniel Gross
Newsweek Web Exclusive
Oct 7, 2008 | Updated: 12:58 p.m. ET Oct 7, 2008

We've now entered a new stage of the financial crisis: the ritual assigning of blame. It began in earnest with Monday's congressional roasting of Lehman Brothers CEO Richard Fuld, and continued on Tuesday with Capitol Hill solons delving into the failure of AIG. On the Republican side of Congress, in the right-wing financial media (which is to say the financial media), and in certain parts of the op-ed-o-sphere, there's a consensus emerging that the whole mess should be laid at the feet of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the failed mortgage giants, and the Community Reinvestment Act, a law passed during the Carter administration. The CRA, which was amended in the 1990s and this decade, requires banks—which had a long, distinguished history of not making loans to minorities—to make more efforts to do so.

The thesis is laid out almost daily on The Wall Street Journal editorial page and in the National Review. Washington Post columnist Charles Krauthammer provides an excellent example, writingthat "much of this crisis was brought upon us by the good intentions of good people." He continues: "For decades, starting with Jimmy Carter's Community Reinvestment Act of 1977, there has been bipartisan agreement to use government power to expand homeownership to people who had been shut out for economic reasons or, sometimes, because of racial and ethnic discrimination. What could be a more worthy cause? But it led to tremendous pressure on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac—which in turn pressured banks and other lenders—to extend mortgages to people who were borrowing over their heads. That's called subprime lending. It lies at the root of our current calamity." The subtext: if only Congress didn't force banks to lend money to poor minorities, the Dow would be well on its way to 36,000. Or, as Fox Business Channel's Neil Cavuto put it: "I don't remember a clarion call that said: Fannie and Freddie are a disaster. Loaning to minorities and risky folks is a disaster."

Let me get this straight. Investment banks and insurance companies run by centimillionaires blow up, and it's the fault of Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and poor minorities?

These arguments are generally made by people who read the editorial page of The Wall Street Journal, and ignore the rest of the paper—economic know-nothings whose opinions are informed mostly by ideology and, occasionally, by prejudice. Let's be honest. Fannie and Freddie, which didn't make subprime loans but did buy subprime loans made by others, were part of the problem. Poor congressional oversight was part of the problem. Banks that sought to meet CRA requirements by indiscriminately doling out loans to minorities may have been part of the problem. But none of these issues is the cause of the problem. Not by a long shot. From the beginning, subprime has been a symptom, not a cause. And the notion that the Community Reinvestment Act is somehow responsible for poor lending decisions is absurd.

Here's why.

The Community Reinvestment Act applies to depository banks. But many of the institutions that spurred the massive growth of the subprime market weren't regulated banks. They were outfits such as Argent and American Home Mortgage, which were generally not regulated by the Federal Reserve or other entities that monitored compliance with CRA. These institutions worked hand in glove with Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers, entities to which the CRA likewise didn't apply. There's much more. As Barry Ritholtz notes in this fine rant, the CRA didn't force mortgage companies to offer loans for no-money down, or to throw underwriting standards out the window, or to encourage mortgage brokers to aggressively seek out new markets. Nor did the CRA force the credit-rating agencies to slap high-grade ratings on subprime debt.

Second, many of the biggest flameouts in real estate have had nothing to do with subprime lending. WCI Communities, builder of highly amenitized condos in Florida (no subprime purchasers welcome there), filed for bankruptcy in August. Very few of the tens of thousands of now-surplus condominiums in Miami were conceived to be marketed to subprime borrowers, or minorities—unless you count rich Venezuelans and Colombians as minorities. The multi-year plague that has been documented in brilliant detail at IrvineHousingBlog is playing out in one of the least subprime housing markets in the nation.

Third, lending money to poor people and minorities isn't inherently risky. There's plenty of evidence that in fact it's not that risky at all. That's what we've learned from several decades of microlending programs, at home and abroad, with their very high repayment rates. And as The New York Times recently reported, Nehemiah Homes, a long-running initiative to build homes and sell them to the working poor in subprime areas of New York's outer boroughs, has a repayment rate that lenders in Greenwich, Conn., would envy. In 27 years, there have been fewer than 10 defaults on the project's 3,900 homes. That's a rate of 0.25 percent.

On the other hand, lending money recklessly to obscenely rich white guys, such as Richard Fuld of Lehman Brothers, or Jimmy Cayne of Bear Stearns, can be really risky. In fact, it's even more risky, since they have a lot more borrowing capacity. And, here, again, it's difficult to imagine how Jimmy Carter could be responsible for the supremely poor decision-making seen in the financial system. I await the Krauthammer column in which he points out the specific provision of the Community Reinvestment Act that forced Bear Stearns to run with an absurd leverage ratio of 33:1, that instructed Bear Stearns hedge-fund managers to blow up hundreds of millions of their clients money, and that required its septuagenarian CEO to play bridge while his company ran into trouble. Perhaps Neil Cavuto knows which CRA clause required Lehman Brothers to borrow hundreds of billions of dollars in short-term debt in the capital markets and then buy tens of billions of dollars of commercial real estate at the top of the market. I can't find it. Did AIG plunge into the credit-default swaps business with abandon because ACORN members picketed its offices? Please. How about the hundreds of billions of dollars of leveraged loans—loans banks committed to private equity firms that wanted to conduct leveraged buyouts of retailers, restaurant companies, and industrial firms? Many of those are going bad now, too. Is that Bill Clinton's fault?

Look. There was a culture of stupid, reckless lending, of which Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and the subprime lenders were an integral part. But the dumb lending virus originated in Greenwich, Ct., midtown Manhattan, and Southern California, not Eastchester, Brownsville, and Washington. Investment banks created a demand for subprime loans because they saw it as a new asset class that they could dominate. They made subprime loans for the same reason they made other loans: They could get paid for making the loans, for turning them into securities, and for trading them—frequently using borrowed capital.

At Monday's hearing, Republican Rep. John Mica of Florida gamely tried to pin Lehman's demise on Fannie and Freddie. After comparing Lehman's small political contributions to Fannie and Freddie's much larger ones, Mica asked Fuld what role Fannie and Freddie's failure played in Lehman's demise. Fuld's response: "de minimis."

Lending money to poor people doesn't make you poor. Lending money poorly to rich people does.

URL: http://www.newsweek.com/id/162789
 
You cannot deny the millions in loans given to illegal aliens for housing. That thread or threads was on front page here for a while.

Oh, but: Awwww, they are just coming here for a better life (yeah, I hear it already, no need to post it).

A poor man knows he cannot live in a $280,000.00 house. He couldn't even make the utility payment.

It's greed on both sides of the economic fence.
 

Kalliope

Inactive
You know, I'd like to see a real list of people who did this. All we have is talking heads saying that people did this, but really, where's the beef on this?

I'm more in line with Catherine Austin Fitts who warned in 2004 that this mortgage fraud would be happening with criminal mortgage brokers submitting false names onto mortgages. It is all to launder drug money and/or it the last of the enterprises to drain taxpayer money.

Go look it up on C2C, summer of 2004, it's there in the archives.

Either she is one hell of a prescient or somebody told her of the fraud...
 

Kalliope

Inactive
or, it's a way to blame illegals by using their names on these fraudulent loans. Hmmm, as it says in the article, it wasn't regulated banks/mortgage brokers doing this, it was the UNREGULATED, which goes right in line with what Catherine Austin Fitts said.

This is a major major major crime and to blame poor people and illegals is one hellava way to point the finger in the wrong direction, isn't it?

Hmmm....who's doing the finger pointing?
 

Desperado

Membership Revoked
or, it's a way to blame illegals by using their names on these fraudulent loans. Hmmm, as it says in the article, it wasn't regulated banks/mortgage brokers doing this, it was the UNREGULATED, which goes right in line with what Catherine Austin Fitts said.

This is a major major major crime and to blame poor people and illegals is one hellava way to point the finger in the wrong direction, isn't it?

Hmmm....who's doing the finger pointing?

If the lenders did their homework and checked out who was applying for a loan there wouldn't be a problem. So the blame on the applicants is minimal.
It was the lenders's responsibility to complete their due diligence

Due Diligence - DD

1. An investigation or audit of a potential investment. Due diligence serves to confirm all material facts in regards to a sale.

2. Generally, due diligence refers to the care a reasonable person should take before entering into an agreement or a transaction with another party.

1. Offers to purchase an asset are usually dependent on the results of due diligence analysis. This includes reviewing all financial records plus anything else deemed material to the sale. Sellers could also perform a due diligence analysis on the buyer. Items that may be considered are the buyer's ability to purchase, as well as other items that would affect the purchased entity or the seller after the sale has been completed.

2. Due diligence is a way of preventing unnecessary harm to either party involved in a transaction.


You would have thought that the lenders might have heard of the phrase before.
 

SouthernGal

"Don't retreat...reload"
Kalliope - do a search and READ the articles posted that prove that this mess began under Jimmy Carter's presidency, through his (and subsequent admin's) pressuring the banks to supply mortgages (i.e., lend money) to "low wage" earners.

This continued throughout the Clinton and Bush admins. The bankers did what the gov't urged them to do. They made huge money off these loans. Then passed them on to someone else, who repackaged them and passed them on again.

There is blame on both sides. The low wage earners who knowingly purchased houses they knew they couldn't afford. And the bankers / mortgagers who were more than willing to write these loans. Then there is the blame of the gov't - who continually urged and promoted an "ownership" society whether everyone could afford to own or not.

Now, we the people, who for the most part have never defaulted on anything, are paying for the mess that was created all the way around.
 

SouthernGal

"Don't retreat...reload"
If the lenders did their homework and checked out who was applying for a loan there wouldn't be a problem. So the blame on the applicants is minimal.
It was the lenders's responsibility to complete their due diligence

I call a HUGE BS on that, desperado. It's called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY to not buy more than you can afford to pay.
 
I worked in the mortgage industry for years, you don't have to explain that to me! I did HUD loans for apartments, there were lots of rules in the late 80s, everyone tried to get around them and it was nearly impossible.

This current lack of due dilegence is because the democrats pushed the housing industry into letting the low income minorities have loans for houses. When these low income minorities qualify, they are qualified because the due dilengence is overlooked, which would be the ONLY way they qualify. It benefited both parties for a while.

As you probably know, it was developed back in the Clinton years.
 
Remember the sitcom In Living Color, one of the Wayans brothers drunkenly crawls out from the cardboard box and pretends he is a high roller.

That pretty much sums it up. He is living his false dreams to think he can afford a $300,000.00 house, but da man says he can so it must be a dream come true. I don't know where to place the blame, some should know better but lots of them were totally ignorant.

Otherwise and in most cases they think da man is a liar, but when they are handing them a country club house, that can't be turned down.
 

mbo

Membership Revoked
"Lending money to poor people doesn't make you poor. Lending money poorly to rich people does."


Uhhh, actually it's both. Lending money to poor people who cannot afford the TOTAL cost of home ownership (mortgage, utilities, taxes, upkeep), combined with bundling up these sub-crap loans into ever larger instruments, to be picked up by behemoths like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, is what leads to meltdowns.

Take all your corporate heads you want to jail for all anyone cares, along with all the lower-layer fly-by-night snake-oil salesmen - who apparently were never regulated, gee. But the Federal government has NO BUSINESS pushing a concept of biting off more than you can chew in an attempt to pick up votes. Snake-oil salesmen and shysters flock to that like larvae to a dead body. Medicare/Medicaid fraud remind you of the same problem that arises whenever the government starts to get atruisitic?

In addition to Mr. Fuld, you might want to take the Sandlers. :groucho:


Your article never addressed the fact that the left-wing never really wanted to regulate the subprime market at all, because it would too quickly reveal the total fallacy the government's implied policy of ignoring credit worthiness.



:dot5:
 
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mbo

Membership Revoked
And now jakcasses like Obama, Barney Franks, Pelosi, and the like, want to have the taxpayers pick up the tab to re-negotiate the PRINCIPAL on home loans to those who never should have bought homes in the first place.

The rest of the country that struggled for years to afford to pay off their own homes are left in the dust, now having to pay for the homes of those who will get a free ride.

Thanks Kalliope.


:dot5:
 

nharrold

Inactive
I worked in the mortgage industry for years, you don't have to explain that to me! I did HUD loans for apartments, there were lots of rules in the late 80s, everyone tried to get around them and it was nearly impossible.

This current lack of due dilegence is because the democrats pushed the housing industry into letting the low income minorities have loans for houses. When these low income minorities qualify, they are qualified because the due dilengence is overlooked, which would be the ONLY way they qualify. It benefited both parties for a while.

As you probably know, it was developed back in the Clinton years.

The author's agenda is blatantly obvious in the first paragraph.
 

Richard

TB Fanatic
look did the sub prime default or not

if its classified sub prime it is so otherwise it would be prime

sub prime has nothing to do with race only ability to pay
 

tanstaafl

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Here's a story from 1999 that a friend just sent to me (ah, the innocence of ignorance):

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...933A0575AC0A96F958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1


Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending

by Steven A. Holmes
New York Times
September 30, 1999


In a move that could help increase home ownership rates among minorities and low-income consumers, the Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders.

The action, which will begin as a pilot program involving 24 banks in 15 markets -- including the New York metropolitan region -- will encourage those banks to extend home mortgages to individuals whose credit is generally not good enough to qualify for conventional loans. Fannie Mae officials say they hope to make it a nationwide program by next spring.

Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits.

In addition, banks, thrift institutions and mortgage companies have been pressing Fannie Mae to help them make more loans to so-called subprime borrowers. These borrowers whose incomes, credit ratings and savings are not good enough to qualify for conventional loans, can only get loans from finance companies that charge much higher interest rates -- anywhere from three to four percentage points higher than conventional loans.

''Fannie Mae has expanded home ownership for millions of families in the 1990's by reducing down payment requirements,'' said Franklin D. Raines, Fannie Mae's chairman and chief executive officer. ''Yet there remain too many borrowers whose credit is just a notch below what our underwriting has required who have been relegated to paying significantly higher mortgage rates in the so-called subprime market.''

Demographic information on these borrowers is sketchy. But at least one study indicates that 18 percent of the loans in the subprime market went to black borrowers, compared to 5 per cent of loans in the conventional loan market.

In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980's.

''From the perspective of many people, including me, this is another thrift industry growing up around us,'' said Peter Wallison a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. ''If they fail, the government will have to step up and bail them out the way it stepped up and bailed out the thrift industry.''

Under Fannie Mae's pilot program, consumers who qualify can secure a mortgage with an interest rate one percentage point above that of a conventional, 30-year fixed rate mortgage of less than $240,000 -- a rate that currently averages about 7.76 per cent. If the borrower makes his or her monthly payments on time for two years, the one percentage point premium is dropped.

Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, does not lend money directly to consumers. Instead, it purchases loans that banks make on what is called the secondary market. By expanding the type of loans that it will buy, Fannie Mae is hoping to spur banks to make more loans to people with less-than-stellar credit ratings.

Fannie Mae officials stress that the new mortgages will be extended to all potential borrowers who can qualify for a mortgage. But they add that the move is intended in part to increase the number of minority and low income home owners who tend to have worse credit ratings than non-Hispanic whites.

Home ownership has, in fact, exploded among minorities during the economic boom of the 1990's. The number of mortgages extended to Hispanic applicants jumped by 87.2 per cent from 1993 to 1998, according to Harvard University's Joint Center for Housing Studies. During that same period the number of African Americans who got mortgages to buy a home increased by 71.9 per cent and the number of Asian Americans by 46.3 per cent.

In contrast, the number of non-Hispanic whites who received loans for homes increased by 31.2 per cent.

Despite these gains, home ownership rates for minorities continue to lag behind non-Hispanic whites, in part because blacks and Hispanics in particular tend to have on average worse credit ratings.

In July, the Department of Housing and Urban Development proposed that by the year 2001, 50 percent of Fannie Mae's and Freddie Mac's portfolio be made up of loans to low and moderate-income borrowers. Last year, 44 percent of the loans Fannie Mae purchased were from these groups.

The change in policy also comes at the same time that HUD is investigating allegations of racial discrimination in the automated underwriting systems used by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to determine the credit-worthiness of credit applicants.
 
The author's agenda is blatantly obvious in the first paragraph.

The author had no agenda other than work for a company that went out of business due to the fact that most of the crappy borrowers we tried to get loans processed for could not pass the strict HUD standards because they were in fact a typical "slumlord" sleezebags. I only processed the loans and handled the papers and received the typical hourly wage. I worked the loans whether or not they got processed and I received no commission. My point was that back then the standards were much higher, it was harder to pass qualifications.

Your point was trying to make me look to be a crook. Stinking liberal deflection.
 
Casinos don't extend credit to people who can't pay it back...
Banks should have at least the same rules.

Casinos are not a requirement in life and gambling is just a fun way to pass time.

Housing pretty much is a requirement in life, and it is hard to pass time without a house over your head.

You can't compare the two and expect money to be lent in the same way. But, I agree, hamburger flipper should not be living in a $300,000.00 house and expect to make ends meet.
 

Kalliope

Inactive
"Lending money to poor people doesn't make you poor. Lending money poorly to rich people does."


Uhhh, actually it's both. Lending money to poor people who cannot afford the TOTAL cost of home ownership (mortgage, utilities, taxes, upkeep), combined with bundling up these sub-crap loans into ever larger instruments, to be picked up by behemoths like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, is what leads to meltdowns.

Take all your corporate heads you want to jail for all anyone cares, along with all the lower-layer fly-by-night snake-oil salesmen - who apparently were never regulated, gee. But the Federal government has NO BUSINESS pushing a concept of biting off more than you can chew in an attempt to pick up votes. Snake-oil salesmen and shysters flock to that like larvae to a dead body. Medicare/Medicaid fraud remind you of the same problem that arises whenever the government starts to get atruisitic?

In addition to Mr. Fuld, you might want to take the Sandlers. :groucho:


Your article never addressed the fact that the left-wing never really wanted to regulate the subprime market at all, because it would too quickly reveal the total fallacy the government's implied policy of ignoring credit worthiness.

:dot5:

Ya'll keep throwing up stuff that is shoulda, coulda, woulda. What I am talking about is this scenario:

Joe Blow sets up Joe Blow's Mortgage Lenders. He is in cahoots with Dave who has a broker's license to just sign off on what is put in front of them. Why? Well, let's just say that Joe Blow has gambling debts and one way to pay them down is to bring 'mortgages' to Dave (who gets a cut of fee's, whatever).

This is what Catherine Austin Fitts talked about in 2005 - shady deals, shady brokers, who then sold those loans to Wall Street, who frickin' knew they were fraudulent.

All it takes is getting a crime ring together to do this. She also said most of the fraud would be coming out of Calif.

Oh BTW, why the frickin' hell are you blaming ME for flippers who drove up the price of housing?

Oh yeah, 1999 - REPUBLICAN CONTROLLED CONGRESS, who must have done something with this bill that Clinton signed.

Do people buy all this smoke and mirrors in real life, or do ya'll just do it online? You do realize that there is the Google and the Wikipedia to actually go look up information, correct?
 

Kalliope

Inactive
Kalliope - do a search and READ the articles posted that prove that this mess began under Jimmy Carter's presidency, through his (and subsequent admin's) pressuring the banks to supply mortgages (i.e., lend money) to "low wage" earners.

This continued throughout the Clinton and Bush admins. The bankers did what the gov't urged them to do. They made huge money off these loans. Then passed them on to someone else, who repackaged them and passed them on again.

There is blame on both sides. The low wage earners who knowingly purchased houses they knew they couldn't afford. And the bankers / mortgagers who were more than willing to write these loans. Then there is the blame of the gov't - who continually urged and promoted an "ownership" society whether everyone could afford to own or not.

Now, we the people, who for the most part have never defaulted on anything, are paying for the mess that was created all the way around.

Once again - I to see an actual list of real people who did this. I want to see in black and white where, when and what mortgage brokers were used. There is no way in hell that poor people, who pay 97% of the time, did this. I'm relying on real economics, right and left, who are saying this, not some blogger sitting in mommy's basement.

(Bush is the one that pushed the ownership society. What Jimmy Carter did was stop the red-lining of neighborhoods - people who could afford the mortgages and who are still paying, but were refused mortgages due to their color or zip code, not ON SALARY OR NET WORTH.)
 

BigBadBossyDog

Inactive
The right blames the credit crisis on poor minority homeowners.

Really? News to me. I blame Dodd, Frank, Obama, Pelousy, Carter, Clinton.

Yeah, there is definitely some blame on the homeowners, but MINORITY has nothing to do with it. Any dimwit stupid enough to take out a loan for more than he/she could pay back deserves to be on the street. Any dimwit stupid enough to get an ARM deserves to be on the street.

The first sentence in your article zeros out any possible credibility the author might have. The RIGHT blames the LEFT. And rightfully so.

I see you blame Bush. The insanity never ends, lol.
 

Kalliope

Inactive
If the lenders did their homework and checked out who was applying for a loan there wouldn't be a problem. So the blame on the applicants is minimal.
It was the lenders's responsibility to complete their due diligence

Due Diligence - DD

1. An investigation or audit of a potential investment. Due diligence serves to confirm all material facts in regards to a sale.

2. Generally, due diligence refers to the care a reasonable person should take before entering into an agreement or a transaction with another party.

1. Offers to purchase an asset are usually dependent on the results of due diligence analysis. This includes reviewing all financial records plus anything else deemed material to the sale. Sellers could also perform a due diligence analysis on the buyer. Items that may be considered are the buyer's ability to purchase, as well as other items that would affect the purchased entity or the seller after the sale has been completed.

2. Due diligence is a way of preventing unnecessary harm to either party involved in a transaction.

You would have thought that the lenders might have heard of the phrase before.

Due diligence is for you and me - not some crime ring. It will be interesting to see if we get any information from the what, 17 different FBI investigations on mortgage brokers and now Wall Street Commercial Bankers? Some of these investigations have been going on for over a year. Now we find out??

I don't know how to send the .wav file from C2C - I saved it when I was paying for the archives. If I had a clue as to how to post the CAF show from C2C I would do it.
 

Anchor

Contributing Member
I thank the OP for this article because it finally explains the Democratic party's contorted rationale behind Obama's claim during the last debate that it was deregulation that actually started this economic crisis. I was wondering how Obama was going to rationalize that absurd claim (absurd because deregulation began in earnest during the Democratic Carter administration -- how do you take the mistakes of one party and put them on the other party? Just like Bill Clinton used to do it, Barack Obama is trying). The article's author, Mr. Gross, may write for Newsweek (and Slate?) but he spouts the Democratic party line.

Now we know what the Democrats plan to say: You can't blame the people who got mortgages even though they were unqualified; forget about personal responsibility, they just wanted something for nothing -- no sorry, they wanted the American Dream of owning a home, which poor people are entitled to. They're just like the Beverly Hillbillies, they lucked in. No, you have to blame those exploiting investment houses and anybody within 50 miles who had lotsa money.

Now, Gross and Obama, explain the mortgage brokers who actually made the deals then passed them onto the banks, then went out of business and disappeared. They'd been around for years. And what about President Clinton signing the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act, which allowed depository banks to become investment banks?

C'mon you two. Quit insulting our intelligence (and our ability to do research). There's enough blame to go 'round for both parties. And more.
 
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