GOV/MIL F4 Phantom Killer Drone

SIRR1

Inactive
On the History Channels program the Bone Yard which was aired this year mentioned that ARAMAK used the F4 drones for target shooting which to me seemed ok but IMHO a kind of an expensive target if you ask me.

Now this new project makes sounds good to me and should scare the living shit out of terrorists and countries like Iran and Syria!

Air Force's New 'Killer Zombie' Drone!

Armed Predator and Reaper drones have become the primary weapons in the fight against Pakistani militants.

But they can be pricey; the Reapers come in at around a hundred million dollars each. Which is why the Air Force is working on a cheaper option: killer zombies.

Visit Davis-Monthan Air Force Base in Tucson, Arizona, and you'll see rows of obsolete F-4 Phantom II aircraft – or at least their gutted carcasses.

This is the Aerospace Maintenance And Regeneration Center or AMARC -- whatever you do, don't call it the Boneyard.

For many years, it has been common practice to resurrect these deceased planes as QF-4 unmanned drones, so that they can have a brief and undignified existence as "full-scale aerial targets."

Everything in the inventory -- from Sidewinder missiles to Patriots -- have been tested on one at some point, even though some find it "kind of hard to shoot at such a magnificent aircraft."

Some 230 Phantoms have been through this resurrection process since 1995. It costs about $800,000 U.S. per aircraft.

The tail and wingtips are painted orange to they can be easily distinguished from manned aircraft.

Typically they are flown several times. Not all tests need to end in the plane being shot down, and there is an onboard scoring system to determine how close a warhead came.

Up to six QF-4s can be flown together remotely by computer, maintaining tight formation using GPS. (Hey, how about a robotic version of the Blue Angels?)

But earlier this year, the zombie fleet got a new twist (see photo): one of them fired a modified High Speed Anti-Radiation Missile.

"This is the first air-to-ground missile fired off an unmanned full-scale aerial target," said Major Markle.

"This test is an important part of the Det. 1 mission because it increases survivability of our Airmen going against (surface-to-air missile) threats. Furthermore, it's the first time the drone has been able to shoot back.

… "With this successful test, we have pioneered a new venue to test forward-firing ordnance without risk to valuable air assets or crew members," said Lt. Col. Joel Rush, Det. 1's commander.

The High Speed Anti-radiation Missile, or HARM, locks on to the radar guidance of surface-to-air missiles.

The QF-4 mission was simply to test the missile. When you're working with a new experimental high-powered rocket motor, it makes sense to keep humans as far away as possible.

(Aircraft missile testing is a hazardous business – some may be familiar with Pete Purvis' account of shooting himself down with a Sparrow missile.)

Could this become more than a mere experiment? Well, the idea of attacking enemy air defenses with a drone seems like a life-saver.

Doing it with a QF-4 drone sounds like a money-saver, too. Those HARM missiles cost over $300,000 each.

If you have four of them on a QF-4, the whole package comes out to $2 million or so. That's a small fraction of a Reaper's price tag.

So maybe the undead QF-4 should get its revenge on the living and get to fire some missiles itself for a change.

Let's hear it for the new Phantom Menace…

http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/10/air-forces-new.html
 

Fleataxi

Inactive
SIRR1:

I wrote about this in Renniassance Man, except they went all the way and made the F-4's fully autonomous using a small supercomputer to fly the plane and fire the weapons. The really cool mod was converting the engines from burning Jet Fuel to burning liquid Hydrogen, and using the gassification process to cool and condense the incoming ram air, which also greatly improves efficiency.

I'm really glad the US Air Force is half as smart as I am! :xpnd:

Fleataxi
 

Archetype

Veteran Member
The QF-4s have made good representative full scale targets, but using them operationally is another matter. They're much more complicated to maintain and operate than a Predator/Reaper, and that's not even factoring in their age. An analogy would be that launching a Reaper would be driving your brand new factory fresh car daily, while a QF-4 mission is like rehabbing a 1968-1972 gas guzzler that's been stored in the shed for 15 years for the occasional Sunday jaunt to car cruises.
 

blackguard

Veteran Member
That brings back serious memories

I worked on F-4's for several years when I was in the Marine Corps. Did the aircraft carrier deplyoment, TopGun and much more. I love my Phantoms!

Thanks for that. A great, great aircraft.
 

Wildweasel

F-4 Phantoms Phorever
Wild Weasel will be along any time now to spank you for this.

No spankings. But oddly enough I happened to stop somewhere that I have net access tonite and saw this. From the photo in the article, the Phantom firing the HARM is an F-4G.

I'm surprised that there were any F-4G Wild Weasels left to fire that HARM from. The -Gs were among the first F-4s to be converted in the USAF F-4 drone target program. All of them have a coupled digital nav system and autopilot that allowed the drone controller system to be installed and to fly the plane.

There were a couple hundred F-4Es and a few dozen RF-4Cs with the same digital nav system that would have been good drone candidates, but the F-4Es went to foreign countries that wanted to expand their F-4 fleets when the US retired theirs. The F-4Gs and RF-4Cs that had the digital nav system were slated to meet their doom well before now.

None the less, I imagine even today, that the F-4G is still the premier HARM firing platform, because when it was retired (and when I retired) the F-4G was the only HARM shooter that was "smarter" than the missile. All other HARM shooting aircraft (F-16, F-18, EA-6B) could not take full advantage of the HARM's full range of target detection and selection capabilities.

They simply did a "point and shoot" and hoped the missile would go after the target they intended. The F-4G crew could look at their electronic warfare scope and select the exact enemy radar they wished to attack and send that information to the missile, and then fire it at that particular radar.

I do not know how this test did any of that, or if it simply fired a missile of a drone aircraft without any sort of targetting control. However, as a concept demonstration it was still pretty interesting.

Meanwhile, it's good to know there are still some flyable Weasels around. I thought from all the photos of D-M that I've seen that only F-4Ds and F-4Cs were left down there.

Now if only I could find a truckload of fuel, get access to a flyable example and a secret airfield to spirit one away to, I could have my very own Phantom.:cool:

But given their thirst for fuel all I could do after getting hold of one would be to sit in the cockpit and pretend to fly it.:shr:

WW
 

blackguard

Veteran Member
WW, if you do get ahold of one

I was a pretty decent Hyd/Pneumatic tech in my day. Worked as a Plane Captain, fueled 'em, armed 'em, towed 'em. Had a turn up license (low power, both engines up to 80%) and a few other tidbits. Be happy to help a pfellow Phantom Phixer !

Ah memories. Worked on RF-4 B's, F-4 J's and F-4 S models. served in both east coast (VMFA -122) and west coast (VMFAT-101, VMFA-232) squadrons. At one point our squadron (101) had 36 aircraft because we were the F 4 training squadron for the Marines and at the end the Navy as well. Miss those days of being young, invincible and all knowing (yeah right!)

Stationed at Beaufort SC and Yuma AZ, you?
 

Fleataxi

Inactive
WW: Didn't the F-14 Tomcat have an upgraded radar setup for the GIB like the F-4 did?

Seems to me the dual-seat planes would make better Wild Weasels than the single-seaters since the Wizzo (GIB) could operate the radar systems while the pilot flew the plane.

Recently, I did some research on the boneyard at DM for a story I was writing, but my HD died, so I'm flying by memory here and can't pull up the file to prove it, but IIRC, there were more F-4G's left at DM than you recalled. I remember reading a report dated 2007/2008 with the current inventory at DM, and they listed dozens of F-4G's in mothballs.

Fleataxi
 

Wildweasel

F-4 Phantoms Phorever
... "IIRC WW was a Wizzo....(ECW Officer)" ...

Wizzo = WSO, Weapons Systems Operator: the guy in the back seat in F-4Cs, F-4Ds and F-4Es. Also flying in F-15E back seats, F-111 right seats, the "basement" of B-1s and B-52s and the right seat of B-2s.

If it flies, the WSO manages the radar and targetting systems to shoot it down. If it's down on the ground, the WSO manages the radar and other weapons control systems to blow it up.

E-Wizzo = Electronics Warfare Specialist WSO: WSOs with special training to act as electronics warfare officers for fighter wings, training regular crews on the latest information concerning radar-guided threats.

EWO = Electronics Warfare Officers: WSOs and other flight rated officers trained for electronics warfare, beyond what an E-WSO would be. F-4G Wild Weasels and EF-111 Ravens used EWOs, as well as the B-52 until it was converted to a Defensive WSO position like the B-1.

I was in the training side of the house, spending time at Homestead, Eglin, Moody, Seymour Johnson and George AFBs stateside and Clark AB, Phillipines and Taegu AB, Korea.

What I wouldn't trade for those carefree days right now.

BTW, I gather that this demonstration was for is to prove the concept of a drone accompanying a manned aircraft being able to carry out the self-defense mission. The F-4G was just handy to do the demonstration with.

The F-35 program is actually slated for the last few years of aircraft production to be delivered without cockpits, being drones that will fly along with manned F-35s and be the planes doing the dirty work while the manned bird stays clear of the shooting.

WW
 
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