ECON Six Reasons to Run From a Job Interview

NC Susan

Deceased
http://www.businessweek.com/managing/content/jul2008/ca20080731_005117.htm



Six Reasons to Run From a Job Interview

When a prospective employer makes unreasonable demands on you before things start to get serious, it's a strong signal to hit the road



Job seekers have issues to keep them up at night. They worry that the beautifully crafted cover letters they're sending off won't be read and that plum jobs will go to less deserving candidates. They worry that their résumés don't showcase their shining accomplishments well enough to command the six-figure offers they're hoping for. If they're job hunting while working, they worry that a stray comment by a hiring manager or human resources screener to the wrong person will make its way back to their own boss.
These are all reasonable worries. Personally, I worry about something else—on behalf of job-seekers everywhere. I worry that they'll tumble into The Vortex and accept a job they should have scorned.
What's The Vortex? It's the set of forces that overtakes a job seeker when he or she is deep into the selection process, somewhere between the first and third interviews, when the employer begins to send signals that he's interested. The Vortex is deadly, because in the face of all that approval and positive feedback (way more, in many cases, than we get on our jobs most of the time), it's easy to lose one's head. It's easy to overlook slights and red flags that should warn us away from dangerous waters. It's easy to get sucked into The Vortex and let our brains override what our instincts are telling us: that no matter how much wining and dining and affirmation is involved, some companies don't deserve our talents.
Charm Offensive

If we end up taking a job because of Vortex effects, we'll regret it, and we know it. That's why we've created this list of Six Reasons to Run from a job opportunity, no matter how pleasant and charming the company representatives are, and no matter how much latte, red wine, and discussion of end-of-year bonuses is involved.
(You'll see that our list makes liberal use of the notion of Strong Mutual Interest. Each of us must determine on our own when SMI has been established, but it usually happens between the first and second interviews.)
Here's our list of Six Reasons to Run:



1) Your employment references are requested before a strong mutual interest is established.
Any employer who values a job candidate also values his or her time and relationships. When a headhunter or company recruiter tells you "We'll need to call your references" too early in the game, they're sending a signal that the valuable time of your reference-givers is not nearly as valuable as the time that the company would waste in interviewing you before checking up on you. Your cue to bail.


2) The employer asks for your Social Security number or your approval for a credit or background check before strong mutual interest is established.
When a company says, "We need to check on you before we can spare the time to talk with you," it's time to get out of Dodge. A talent-focused employer will call you for a phone interview (at a minimum) before bothering you for personal information that they won't require if they don't make you a job offer. This type of batch processing shouts, "Get in line to genuflect." Keep looking.

3) You're sent a questionnaire (not a job application) or online test to complete before you've had any human contact with the employer, including a phone call.
When a company makes its selection process more efficient by shoving tests in your face before so much as chatting with you, they're sharing their views on reciprocity. "Prove to us that you're worth our time" is not the message that a talent-aware employer sends to the talented people applying to use their talents on its behalf. Reciprocity works in the same that permission-based marketing does; you give something to get something at every step in the process. A smarter company will chat with you, answer your questions about the job, and then ask, "Would you mind filling out our questionnaire, as the next step in the process? Can I answer any questions for you, to help you feel comfortable investing more time in our company?"



4) Unreasonable or short notice to travel for interview.
The Vortex becomes more powerful over time, and many a job seeker has called me excitedly to report, "They're flying me to New York City, tomorrow," without stopping to think: "Wait a second, they didn't ask me whether it was convenient for me to fly to New York City, now that I think about it." I know of one situation in which a candidate was pressured to fly to the company's headquarters on his wife's birthday. He was told, "If this isn't a priority for you, it isn't a priority for us, either." He wavered for an hour or two before telling them: "If my personal life and my most important relationship isn't important to you, I don't want to work for you." If they really want you, they can wait a day or two.



5) You're told you can't meet the team, or see the employee handbook, or meet clients (if appropriate) before an offer is extended.
This is a big, neon red flag that plenty of job seekers miss in the swirling colors of The Vortex. You need to meet your co-workers. Period. You need to see the employee handbook, which you'll be expected to adhere to during your tenure with the company and which will govern your working relationship. If you will work closely with a client at a senior level, it could make sense for you to meet with someone from the client's team before accepting the job. Ask yourself: Why wouldn't they let me meet the team or read the handbook? What is this employer afraid of?



6) All communication is funneled through the HR rep or the headhunter.
Practical matters, like interview times and paperwork flying back and forth, doesn't need to take up a hiring manager's time. It makes sense to have an HR point person or third-party recruiter handling communication with a candidate over these "mechanical" issues. But if you're really interested in a job and have a question for your prospective manager, the manager absolutely needs to take that call. If you can't get the manager's attention now, what makes you think you'll be able to when you work there?
Leave any of these six scary Vortex situations behind and don't look back—you'll have dodged a bullet. You have a lot to offer, and if an employer can't see it as the selection process unfolds, your talents are better used elsewhere.





Liz Ryan is an expert on the new-millennium workplace and a former Fortune 500 HR executive.
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
Interesting, though only valid above a certain level of responsibility...or a certain level of task type. Your basic Systels Analyst 1 or II isn't going to get a lot of that consideration before those requests...

A team leader or supervisor or Principal, yeah, but not the lower worker bees.......
 
4) Unreasonable or short notice to travel for interview.
The Vortex becomes more powerful over time, and many a job seeker has called me excitedly to report, "They're flying me to New York City, tomorrow," without stopping to think: "Wait a second, they didn't ask me whether it was convenient for me to fly to New York City, now that I think about it." I know of one situation in which a candidate was pressured to fly to the company's headquarters on his wife's birthday. He was told, "If this isn't a priority for you, it isn't a priority for us, either." He wavered for an hour or two before telling them: "If my personal life and my most important relationship isn't important to you, I don't want to work for you." If they really want you, they can wait a day or two.

+100

This also says that they can't plan and expect you to cover for this.

I once worked for a company that expected you to carry your passport at all times and be ready to leave the country on an hour's notice. And no, it wasn't military - they were just awful at planning :)
 

fruit loop

Inactive
I walk out when they start those Mickey Mouse "test questions" like how many gas stations are in the USA per neighborhood crap.
 

mortgageboss

Contributing Member
Back in 1990 I was running restaurants. I had an interview with S&A Restaurant corp. where they asked me if I could get out of the Ntl. Guard because the one weekend per month and 2 wks /yr drill put them in a bind. The recruiter even went so far as to tell me his boss told him not to hire any guardsmen or reservists. I told them I took an oath and signed the enlistment papers and took that very seriously. Needless to say, I didnt get the job. I havent eaten at Steak and Ale or Bennegans since then.
 

Dobbin

Faithful Steed
I can verify that these kind of companies exist. I worked for one of them - for a while.

I should have known. My own former company had history with the new employer. It was a boiler job and one of the onsite managers of the job stopped in to inspect the now delivered tools to confirm that everything necessary to do the next day's work was on hand. While there, he was confronted by the shift supervisor (a nobody when you consider he had only a casual passing interest in the repairs) who informed the manager that he was to remove their trailers immediately - if not sooner.

"You know there will be mobilization costs that your company will have to pay?"

"Yup - we don't care. Go ahead and bill us. The company that replaced you underbid you by half."

And that was the way my new employer worked. Nickel and dime everything possible, including the personnel, as it turns out. This was a warning sign I didn't heed from a period even before I applied for work.

Before my interview it was like yelling into a well. This was a warning sign. Suddenly and just about when I thought I've wasted my time, I was invited to interview, and I was in 7th heaven. Somebody was actually interested in me!

Actually they were interested in my professional license. The fact that a person was attached to the license was of absolutely NO interest as I later learned.

The interview went well I thought. I have some deportment and class and show pretty good. And the plant manager and I had some common background from a plant 10 years earlier. He was a janitor and I was one of the operating engineers. In this new venue he was a plant manager and I was still an operating engineer. This was a warning sign.

Job offer - money seemed good. Pretty dern good being it was more than I had ever made as an operating engineer before.

Job accepted, first day of work. The person who had conducted the majority of my interview was no longer employed by them having taken a job elsewhere. Another warning sign.

Meanwhile, I was to be trained by the man who would ultimately take his position. Little did I know I was hired to take the position at the bottom so that each person in the echelon could in turn could move their way up.

My immediate supervisor, on my first day of work, indicated that "he didn't think this was going to work out." This said on my first day! Another warning sign I chose not to heed. But by now I was locked into the vortex.

My second day of work, the company declared bankruptcy. "Shouldn't affect us since we're the moneymaking part of the company" was the mantra repeated by management. Not exactly correct. It, or it's penny pinching aftereffects, affected the persona of the management even beyond the indications displayed so far.

And from there the environment only degraded further. Man caught smoking on the tipping floor, 22 year veteran of the company, fired immediately on the spot. No councelling, no program, no retirement, no severence, no nuttin. Receptionist in the front lobby laid off with no replacement planned. Meanwhile her work fell on the operating staff, me, to handle and route all calls.

Operating staff was short-handed already. Do the arithmetic and you find out that you work a 56 hour week all but nine weeks of the year. Not mentioned during the interview, of course. While the overtime (straight time) was a nice bonanza, after a year or two of this you get tired of working so much you don't have time to spend the money. And as soon as a second person is sick or out on scheduled vacation, you get to work an 84 hour week. 7 days a week, 12 hours a day.

Want a day off to go to a wedding in the family? Not possible unless you arrange a swap with one of the operating engineers. And of course everyone is so tired of working that they don't want even one additional day of work and swaps are nearly impossible. I had to forgo the wedding. My wife and kids went alone.

It was a hell-hole. And we pleaded for another operating engineer to augment the staff. It took them over two years to find another. And as soon as the former retiree arrived (we called him the "recycle, reclaim, re-use employee."), a whispering campaign went through the plant indicating to "watch out - they're going to look to fire someone." Sometimes the undercurrent knows more than we give it credit for.

A few days short of my being fully vested in the benefits program (3 years) it was my turn to take the sack. An ill conceived and documented "non-performance of duties" claim backed by no less than three "special performance appraisals" for which I had no opportunity for dispute and in fact I had no knowledge of beforehand.

And for one, I was GLAD to go.

I considered briefly to bring my sacking and dismissal to court. Even contacted a lawyer. She thought I had a good case since I was 50 plus and their documentation was specious. However, I had only been an employee for slightly less than three years. What sort of settlement could I expect? A half a year's salary? Even a year's salary? I was ultimately dissuaded from this course by the fact that my now former company was willing to cover my unemployment benefits for the better part of a year afterwards. They didn't have to do this and this money would not have been forthcoming had a lawsuit been instituted. So I put up and shut up - and so did they apparently knowing that I was a lot more dangerous in a court of law than in the unemployment office.

It was hard in the interim. Not many employers want employees who are 50 plus years old. I was over four years working for myself in the "home repair" field. But I played the game smart and finally found a professional employer who had more than a license, or hours I can sit on watch in mind when they hired me.

Advice to job seeker? Take your time if you can choosing alternate employement. Read Your Money or Your Life by Robin/Dominguez. If you have preps, use them. It truly is possible to live and be happy in an "alternate lifestyle." I, like any of us at any time, may be there again someday.

Best,
Joe
 
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Bubba Zanetti

Inactive
I wish I had read this in 2005 prior to accepting a programming job with a logging company. My recruiter with Robert Half International begged me to NOT take the job ... "They are lying"....

I was "in the vortex".
 

Nuthatch

Inactive
If you want a government job those first three are givens. Don't want to do them, then don't apply for a government job.
 

Kook

A 'maker', not a 'taker'!
I was scheduled for an interview in another state, and the date of the interview was 6 weeks in the future. I asked why so long for an interview, and I was told that 'The guy you are replacing doesn't know yet, and that is the first time he is going to be out of the plant'. At least they were honest about it. And I was honest with them: I told them that they are despicable and I would never want to work for someone who could set up a guy like that and lie by actions so well. In addition, the fact that they told me so easily, so matter-of-fact and that they thought that would be OK by me shows what kind of low life company culture they promoted. I sent back the tickets.
 

ainitfunny

Saved, to glorify God.
Was this written when decent paying jobs were so commonly available that job seekers had the luxury of being so choosy and stand-offish? I don't hear about so many people getting so many interview requests that they can be so damned selective. It's nice for the employee when that economic situation occurs but nowdays job satisfaction does not trump pay and bennies when ANY job is hard to find and at least a hundred other equally qualified applicants will TAKE THAT JOB and eat sh*t just to put food on the table and make the house payment.

This is a strangely misled generation that must think their fathers and forefathers worked in mines, steel and textile mills for the personal satisfaction it brought. Doing what you MUST even though you hate it is called duty, responsibility, ADULT behavior, AND WORK.
 

Dobbin

Faithful Steed
Doing what you MUST even though you hate it is called duty, responsibility, ADULT behavior, AND WORK.

And doing what you hate has to be forever? Doing so is also called STUPIDITY and a sure ticket to the unemployment line since you definitely won't give a job that has become an anathema your finest effort.

No, a balance is needed between doing what you HAVE to do and doing what you WANT to do. That is what LIFE is.

There is no ideal job. Every acceptable job is a co-mingling of what you hate with what you love.

And granted in bad economic times the choosing is not so varied - but I am proof that it is not impossible.

I was scheduled for an interview in another state, and the date of the interview was 6 weeks in the future. I asked why so long for an interview, and I was told that 'The guy you are replacing doesn't know yet, and that is the first time he is going to be out of the plant'.

Heck, during his interview I was asked to give a plant tour to the man who eventually replaced me. (The "3R" employee) I suspected what it was all about. And I'm sure it was done in wry humor and as a "subtle hint" by a plant management who was simply arrogant in their managerial position. And I'm sure I would do as I did then and simply give the tour and call it a day's work - and meanwhile tell the wife to ramp up her part time job and expect the worst to happen in a short time.

It is only a job after all. And I am NOT my job.

Best,
Joe
 

Jonas Parker

Hooligan
I remember sitting at my desk in September of 1990 when the phone rang with the "greetings, you're now on active duty" call. My boss (and his boss) went spastic, even though I'd just come off two weeks active duty in early August (vacation time) and they knew damn well I was in the military. By February of 1991, when I got released from active duty, I had already found another, and better job, and never went back to the "spastic bosses"...
 

Dex

Constitutional Patriot
Good tips. I've been drawn into that vortex before too. These are good reminders for me because I'm soon to be back in the market again.

There is a balance between making sacrifices and getting what you want. Too many employers have the attitudes outlined in this article and they are not usually good companies to work for. I'd rather get paid a little less and be happy where I'm at instead of getting paid more to kiss the butts of exploitative employers.
 

OddOne

< Yes, I do look like that.
Back in 1990 I was running restaurants. I had an interview with S&A Restaurant corp. where they asked me if I could get out of the Ntl. Guard because the one weekend per month and 2 wks /yr drill put them in a bind. The recruiter even went so far as to tell me his boss told him not to hire any guardsmen or reservists. I told them I took an oath and signed the enlistment papers and took that very seriously. Needless to say, I didnt get the job. I havent eaten at Steak and Ale or Bennegans since then.

And that would be very, very illegal of them to either deny hiring an otherwise qualified candidate strictly because they're a reservist or to request or demand someone already hired quit the reserves. Of course, proving this in court is the tricky part...
 

ichoric

Senior Member
I walk out when they start those Mickey Mouse "test questions" like how many gas stations are in the USA per neighborhood crap.

I usually use those kind of questions when I think the interviewee knows his/her stuff, but isn't communicating it very well and it's going somewhat badly. Depending on how it's done, it's better than letting a qualified candidate fail due to nervousness or expressing abstract thoughts, etc.

But when I do it (and I think my peers do it the same way), it's more of a "Okay, here's a question we can do together. Let's say we have 2 buckets and we want to measure how much water is in that swamp. Your bucket can hold 5 gallons, my bucket holds 2." If the interviewer starts answering it, it usually lightens the mood and allows for conversation, problem solving, and teamwork.

Then again, the place I work that I interview people...I'm not in management. I'm not sure how they go about those kind of questions.
 
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