OT/MISC Mike Oehler's PSP underground house

A question folks:

I have been looking into a (relatively) cheap way to produce a home for the last few months and I have most recently been looking into the Post-Shoring-Polyethylene method pioneered by Mike Oehler (of the $50 dollars and Up Underground House fame. www.undergroundhousing.com). I have his book and have read it cover to cover several times. It looks like a highlighter exploded in it now, with all the side notes I’ve taken.

For those of you who aren’t in the know, I’ll summarize a bit. The basic principle is to take a heavy duty wooden structure (preferably designed to withstand the inward pressures of the weight of the earth involved) shore it up, and cover the outside with polyethylene plastic (I’m looking at pond liner myself). Then slowly backfill dirt against the plastic and eventually cover the entire structure, leaving obvious spaces for windows, doors, etc. The dirt covering the plastic negates the damage that is typically done by UV and weather on plastic sheeting.

The design requires a few creative paths to provide adequate lighting so that you’re not living in a tomb (which is better than the usual path of south-facing windows and blank back wall, prone to leaks and dungeon-like gloom). Obviously a lot of emphasis goes into structure and drainage. A lot of emphasis also goes into design, so that there is adequate light and ventilation.

I have access to a few wooded acres, a pile of maple logs that have been ever so neatly stacked about a mile away, and a chainsaw or 2. My wife works for a plastic manufacturer, so its likely that I may have access to some more inexpensive sheeting than average.

So here’s the question: Has anyone here tried this particular building principle to see if its sound?

Anyone have the videos that he offers? I’m interested to learn more, just not sure if it’s $95.00 worth of interest (what he charges for his videos).

So has anyone tried it? I just want some real world facts.

I hope you find what you need. I genuinely believe that the $95 is worth it. Compare that with the cost of a home, and it's a small price in order to learn more and see examples you wont find in the book.

I have that book as well and it is intriguing. I'm currently building an earth home as well, but have chosen a different building method (concrete). That is mainly because of termites in the area where I live. Mike lives far enough north that they are not nearly the problem they are here and you can get away with his method.

I do recommend his method, as it is a low-cost way to get a good sturdy home, and to hopefully have a home without debt. At least then you wont be enslaved to the bank and/or to a job that you might hate.

The basic principle is to take a heavy duty wooden structure (preferably designed to withstand the inward pressures of the weight of the earth involved) shore it up, and cover the outside with polyethylene plastic (I’m looking at pond liner myself). Then slowly backfill dirt against the plastic and eventually cover the entire structure

Click to expand...

A termite's wildest dream.

It wouldn't last long in the Midwest and the mold/mildew would be a thing to behold. Even concrete underground houses require continuous dehumidification. My Dad, who lives in one, is happy when he gets the humidity down to 80%. He says his coat hangers rust when it gets higher.

Ok, so 1 thumbs up, 1 thumbs down...

Has anyone actually seen his videos? I can appreciate that they might be useful from the standpoint of what they may save me, but still being in the theoretical stages, I don't have a lot of extra cash lying around to follow theories unless I know if they're relatively sound.

I have read around and a lot of people seem to have the book. But it seems like no one's tried to see if it will actually work. Any experiences out there?

Oh, and best of luck Les_stockton. I'd like to see how your pad turns out when you finish. Keep me posted. I may PM you my email address later.

Mike is my neighbor and friend. He's the real deal and I've been in some of his places and built places (years ago) using his techniques.


Here's a picture of one of them built around 1977.



Here's a recent interior picture.


Even though the place has been unoccupied and unmaintained for 25 years there is no deterioraton, other than someone broke out all the windows.

You might want to check out www.countryplans.com
They have an example one a house built with Mike Oehler's design's. They also have a forum and the guy that built the house is a moderator. Notice how he uses Cob in his design.

You can rent the videos here:
http://smartflix.com/store/video/3007/The-LowCost-Underground-House-Workshop

Probably much less than buying them, but you might want to buy the anyways....

I think Mike also suggests using heavy duty rubber pond lines for the roofs, as sometimes the plastic sheeting can get holes..

I think these homes are perfect for what they are built for-- high mountain retreats where it gets cold. Think the mountains of Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, California, Utah, New Mexico, Arizona. In these dry areas, you would have no issues for years.

But I don't think I would build one in a humid climate.

I have often thought this is a great way to build a nice cozy, efficient, off-grid hidden retreat on cheap secluded mountain land.

Here's the link directly to the "Earth Sheltered Home Tour":


http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

I've been studying earth sheltered homes for 20 years now, and have a copy of Mike's book...lots of good ideas, lots of potential, and many cheap ways to accomplish what he did, and still does.

I'd consider going this route for a home, IF the land I had to put it on allowed building an accessible home...which means exterior decks, ramps, and probably a bit of concrete.

My take on this kind of home is, better a dry region than a wet one, or seasonally wide variation from one to the other...this kind of home doesn't leave a lot of room for dealing with extremely wet soils or conditions. Yes, many layers of plastic will make a difference, but I foresee more problems than answers going this route.

My own plans for earth shelter include a completely different method of environmental control than earth/plastic/plastic/plastic/living area.

I've got tons of books on the subject, besides just Mike's book, but I still recommend his for considering earth shelter from a widely different perspective.

Rich

Bare: love the pics. How long did it take you to complete it in '77?

Lostinaz: I really appreciate the links. I was looking for something just like that for reference. Ill probably be seen on that forum a lot in the near future.

Survivalring: Thanks for the encouragement. This idea has always appealed to me, and I've focused on this particular path for about 3 years now.

I'm in an area that recieves about 36 inches of rainfall annually. I've located a hilltop on the property that I'm in the process of purchasing. My thought is to construct the structure practically on top of the existing ground (even if I have to haul in soil to do so) and berm soil up around and over it. I also want to put one big piece of poly sheeting over the top of it (and out from the house several feet, only about 8 inches under the soil) and create a sort of umbrella effect, so that most of the water will run off the sides. Most of the moisture should only get to the location by capillary action in the soil. I plan to use a lot of gravel (river rock) and sand, as well as a ton of plastic drainage tile to keep the water that doesnt roll off the sides draining away efficiently. (there are three things to emphasize... drainage, drainage, drainage...)

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree, but I look at it like this: if I live in it ten years and it costs me $10,000, that's about $83.00 a month. Compound what that saves in heating and cooling costs, I figure about $25.00 a month in the 3 coldest winter months and $35.00 in the 2 hottest summer months thats $145 a year or about $1450 over the 10 year duration, making it a $8550 total investment. If nothing else it saves me enough to build something different.

The design I'm working with makes use of light and ventilation in all directions, creating cross breezes, and utilizing the winter sun as often as possible. This would eliminate a lot of the usual underground house (dank cave/cellar) issues.

Theres a hill about 150 yards to the east thats 35 feel higher. There is an old homestead there. All the buildings and structures have fallen in except the old windmill and well. Im planning on cleaning (if it's structurally sound) the old well and building a ferrocrete tank (cistern?) for the windmill to pump into and let gravity feed water into the house (may have to supplement with a pump if pressure isn't enough). Im hoping it would deliver enough to at least flush toilets and keep the faucets running if power wasn't available. Showers might not be feasible though without pressure supplement.

A power line runs along the edge of the property which means I'm going to have to bury electricity for about 150 feet. I'll probably work on some alternate energy project later down the road, but that is not within my price range right now. I've planned to use natural lighting as much as possible and plan for situations where electricity isn't available by removing as much reliance on it from the initial design (like the water situation). I even have an experiment running using the Jean pain method for heating the water and probably the house itself without power if that's even needed. If it works out this winter, that may change the way my design goes from here on out.

I have some VERY nice maple and elm trees that have been cleared off of some acres of my dad's a short distance away. They're all piled up, tops, leaves and all nice and neat. I can remove what I want and he'll burn the rest when I'm done. Most of them aren't more than 16" in diameter and most are less than that. However, they are about 50 - 75 feel tall (long). The price is right either way.

Lots of labor involved in this project. But I have a lot more time than I have money.

So thats my plan in a nutshell.

I have a concern about termites of course. I'm working ways around it but if anyone has any ideas I'm all ears. I know they're pretty diligent little critters, so quite a bit of thought needs to go into that.

Anyone have any other ideas?

Bare: is there any periodic upkeep that I need to figure on?

Thats enough rambling for me for now.

Thanks everyone.

I really don't recall how long it took nicholas, it was complete in one season but work was sporadic on it. Once the hillside was dug out it went pretty fast. There were a lot of holes to dig in the uprights, since it's about 28' in diameter, but there were lots of hands to do the digging. The windows didn't get put in until late in the winter and at the time, there was no dirt on top. I knew it was going to be warm since water sitting right in a bucket right below the window openings didn't freeze even at -30. The only thing ever used to heat it up was a wood cook stove.

One thing we decided wasn't a good idea after the fact, was laying down a cobblestone floor in half of the stucture. We didn't insulate between the ground and the rock and that stuff just never did warm up, it stays the same temperature as the ground of course. The other half of the floor was wood and did fine.

As I mentioned, there's been no one living in or maintaining it since 1980 or so and you could replace the windows, sweep out the mouse turds and move right in. Didn't see where there had ever been any water intrusion or wall compression.

I would think if you laid plastic under and up about 12" in the interior walls and laid a brick(?) floor you might be able to defeat termites. Nasty little critters!

Add a layer of underground insulation to cover the top of the home like an umbrella, with drainage, as well as a series of air circulating tubes radiating out into the ground and you will have a (PAHS) passive active heat storage system which will provide free heating and cooling year round.

I'm glad to see so many favorable responses, and some good ideas, because I have this book, too, and IF I ever move back to Alaska, this is how I would build my house there. I'd probably use an inch or two of foam insulation on the roof and at least the upper part of the walls, just so the dirt wouldn't have to be quite so deep.

Kathleen

I agree Freeholder. This thread has been a good one so far. If people keep asking questions or contributing this could be a really good thread.

In regards to the foam insulation, Rob Roy (a big name in the owner builder movement) suggests putting foam around everything. His reasoning is essentially this: The ground is just thermal mass. It is a poor insulator. It cools and warms seasonally. By providing insulation around your UH you separate you thermal mass from the earth, which is prone to (slow seasonal) temperature swings that are not always within our comfort levels. 46 degree earth may not be cold when compared to the outdoor temperature of -15, but its still cooler than most people find comfortable.

Rob uses the analogy that an underground house is just like an above ground house that's in a different climate. Instead of being in a climate where the temp may swing from the 100's to below zero, it rests in a climate where it gradually swings a few degrees over several months. That doesn't mean that the "underground climate" is a comfortable temperature all year round. Usually its a little on the cool side and the house needs to be insulated, otherwise its like trying to heat a tent in that same type of climate.

In short your heat is being bled off into the earth. If you insulate (and he suggests all six sides; even below footings if possible) then you keep your heat inside a small envelope. Add some thermal mass to keep your heat inside the envelope and a little heat goes a long ways. A small wood stove to warm the hands in the dead of winter may be enough BTUs to keep the whole thing heated.


I plan to insulate about a foot beyond the walls (providing that I can keep that soil relatively dry) to provide adequate thermal mass so that I may not have to heat much at all. Foam is definitely a good idea though.