INTL Mexican President Admits Mexico Disintegrating

Martin

Deceased
Mexican President Admits Mexico Disintegrating
Sunday, August 31, 2008 7:30 PM






MEXICO CITY -- Moving quickly to address mounting anger over crime, President Felipe Calderon promised Sunday to adopt several proposals from civic groups who led more than 100,000 Mexicans in marches against daily kidnappings and killings.


Among the measures are the creation of a citizens' panel to monitor government progress in fighting crime, better police recruiting and oversight systems and equipping police with more powerful weapons, Mexico's conservative president said.


Calderon acknowledged that Mexicans are desperate to see results two years after he took office and began an aggressive battle against drug traffickers and other criminal gangs.


The government "shares the demands and the indignation of the people," Calderon said after meeting with 14 civic leaders who staged Saturday night's candlelight protests in the capital and cities across the country. "We know the biggest problem in Mexico is public insecurity."


Homicides and kidnappings have surged despite the deployment of more than 25,000 soldiers and federal police to hotspots across Mexico, and the arrest of several top drug lords.


Hours before Saturday's protests, the severed heads of two women were found near the attorney general's offices in northwestern city of Durango, according to local media reports citing the same agency. No motive was given, but drug gangs in Mexico often behead their rivals.


Calderon offered few details about the proposed panel _ the Citizen's Institute of Social and Criminal Prevention _ but members of the 14 civic groups told reporters the president promised a concrete plan within a month.


"We're going to keep demanding: What's happening, what's happening, what's happening?" said Laura Elena Herrejon, of the civic group Pro-Neighbor. "Everyone who is listening to us must keep up the pressure."


Calderon said he had already included many of the other ideas in a 74-point anti-crime agreement drawn up last month during a national security meeting with governors and mayors.


Even while vowing aggressive action, Calderon warned that rooting out drug gangs and cleaning up Mexico's police will be a long fight.


Drug cartels have fought back with daily attacks against police, gunning them down at their homes, checkpoints and headquarters. Dozens of officers have quit in terror, leaving many police forces in disarray, particularly along the gang-plagued northern border with the United States.


The rise in violence "is a consequence of the gradual and growing disintegration of public and governmental institutions," Calderon said, acknowledging that "in many places authorities have been overwhelmed by delinquency and crime."


A sea of white-clad demonstrators filled Mexico City's enormous Zocalo square Saturday night, many holding photographs of their kidnapped loved ones.


http://newsmax.com/printTemplate.html
 

Troke

Deceased
Well, my #1 Grandson asked the question yea these many months ago as I have related on this forum.

What happens in Mexico if all the illegals here go back?

Good question. With the income from those illegals cut off, what are they going to do?

You folks ready for 10,000,000 screaming terrorized refugees hitting the Rio Grande as the country dissolves into chaos and a 'savior' suddenly springs from the hills? History shows that in any revolution, at least 10% flee.

Better think about it. It may be coming.
 

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
Troke, that old "support Mexico because if you don't you'll have a revolution on our doorstep" song is getting REALLY old. It's blatant fear-mongering. Implicit in the statement is that we MUST take in Mexico's "overflow" of refugees and support them, because if we DON'T, we'll have another Hugo Chavez, on our border and ready to invade.

Hell man, LET IT COME! At least if we DID have that, there would be political incentive to CLOSE THE DAMN BORDER WITH ARMED TROOPS!

I will never bow to the "just accept your rape, because if you fight it, it'll just be worse for you" argument....
 

Satanta

Stone Cold Crazy
_______________
Well, my #1 Grandson asked the question yea these many months ago as I have related on this forum.

What happens in Mexico if all the illegals here go back?

Good question. With the income from those illegals cut off, what are they going to do?

You folks ready for 10,000,000 screaming terrorized refugees hitting the Rio Grande as the country dissolves into chaos and a 'savior' suddenly springs from the hills? History shows that in any revolution, at least 10% flee.

Better think about it. It may be coming.

We'll give them your job.
 

Cardinal

Chickministrator
_______________
[FONT=Verdana,Arial]"We know the biggest problem in Mexico is public insecurity." [/FONT]

Gee, not "the biggest problem in Mexico is pervasive corruption"?

More band-aids to buy time to loot the country...
 

Troke

Deceased
"...Hell man, LET IT COME! At least if we DID have that, there would be political incentive to CLOSE THE DAMN BORDER WITH ARMED TROOPS!.."

All actions have a reaction..I live by that motto having spent good portion of my life trying to rectify reactions nobody thought of at the time. OK? So I just as soon as not be unprepared for the reaction. That's why I keep ranting about this. I am more than willing to run off every illegal. If you check my posts, you will note how I propose to do that. But I am not so stupid as to think that action is a free lunch. There just may be a very high price and we damned well better be sure we are ready to pay if it comes to that.

Close the border with troops? We are going to machine-gun women and kids swimming the Rio Grande, right there on Channel 6? Why do I doubt that? And with modern tech, there is no way it will be kept off Channel 6.

Frankly, if Mexico descends into utter chaos, we may have to pull a Georgia on this. And we had better be ready. I have seen a couple of posts in the near past suggesting this and I don't think those people are the lunatic fringe. They may the only ones around here actually giving this entire problem some thought.

The Spanish philosopher Jose Ortega y Gassett was of the opinion that the Spanish character has some sort of defect that prevents them from gaining a successful revolution; either its Francisco Franco or its Pancho Villa. Nobody in between. Let's hope Mexico can do better, but their history is not promising.

One wonders if the cheapest way out of this is to legalize all dope and cut off the finances of the Mexican dopers. Unfortunately that would have to include the Meth-heads and I am not sure that would be a good thing.

Anyway, I think there is a major problem and when solutions are suggested, I would like to see what is expected as a reaction to the solution. Because there is going to be one. Believe it.
 

Satanta

Stone Cold Crazy
_______________
Troke-we need to either take the place over or nuke a DMZ...say 30 miles inside Mexican territory from sea to shining gulf.
 

Freeholder

This too shall pass.
Troke-we need to either take the place over or nuke a DMZ...say 30 miles inside Mexican territory from sea to shining gulf.

There are pros and cons to both of those options: Nukes aren't PC, and taking the place over would be a very expensive and difficult proposition.

In all honestly, the 'character deficiency' of the Spanish people that Jose Ortega y Gassett talked about is simply solved. All humans have it; it's the lack of God in their lives. I'm not talking about religion. I'm talking about God, Jesus Christ, the Bible. Mexico needs a Christian revival of faith in God and the Holy Scriptures. Actually, so do we, and so does the rest of the world. That's the only thing that will overcome the sin nature that we are all born with.

Kathleen
 

Hermit

Inactive
The reason Mexico's police and military are so corrupt is that they don't make much money or bennies. From what I've heard, it's simply not enough to live on .... they're actually expected to take bribes, although it's supposed to be small things like hitting tourists up for traffic violations.

They really don't have any choice but to go for the big money from the drug cartels. That's why you see even Mexican military "invading" the US to protect drug runners .... it's really not anything the govt there wants to happen.

As for stopping webacks in general from coming here, it's as simple as a vigorous and financially painful prosecution of the employers.
 

Desertrat

Inactive
Freeholder, as a society, Mexico is pretty doggoned devout and strong in their faith. Which, really, is part of the problem: Their population grows faster than does the increase in jobs. That's pretty much true of all the Catholic countries to the south: Little to no birth control. Socialistic oligarchies in control of the socio-economic systems. Doomed to failure; some sooner, some later...
 

Delta

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I personally know two Americans who came to this country illegally from Mexico. They are now both citizens. Having gotten to know them, I wonder how many of Mexico's best and brightest citizens have fled to America. Has Mexico undergone a "brain drain"? Is their loss to Mexico part of Mexico's problem?
 

TJA

Veteran Member
With the ongoing collapse of the Cantarell fields this problem will only get worse. Any decline in money coming from the U.S. will also make this problem even worse. To make things even more headache inducing, every decline in the price of oil will also make this problem worse.

Personally I don't see any real solution. I can't see any real or effective lock down of the border with the current political situation or any likely changes in the near future. If anything things will only get worse on that particular front as well.
 

Knell

Inactive
I was just watching a show on the history channel about the Columbian drug cartels in the '80s. The tactics the Mexican drug lords are using are terrifyingly similar; murdering police, etc. It's heading to a full scale guerilla war and, unless the US secures the border, that war will increasingly be in our neighborhoods.
 

MataPam

Veteran Member
Legallize drugs. Take away the drug cartel's money. Watch Mexico implode, because I'll bet there's more US$ going into Mexico from drugs than the workers send back.

It's damn near time to go empire building.
 

lectrickitty

Great Great Grandma!
They can't control their country so they try to shove their problems off on Americans. They beg for us to give them OUR tax dollars so they can "fight drug problems"... give me a break. The more money you throw at a problem the bigger the problem becomes. We've seen it happen with the "war on drugs", "federal education", "entitlement programs", and a long list of other wasteful programs big bro has developed.

They've pushed their spending over the top where taxpayers can't afford to pay the bills so now our politicians have started sucking up tax money from the Chinese and they will soon outspend them too.
 

American Rage

Inactive
Legallize drugs. Take away the drug cartel's money. Watch Mexico implode, because I'll bet there's more US$ going into Mexico from drugs than the workers send back.

It's damn near time to go empire building.

Better yet, decriminalize weed, and execute the smugglers and dealers of every other drug.

Rage
 

Bad Hand

Veteran Member
I lived in Mexico for awhile and bribing the police is just something you did. Like the "Free Parking" around the plaza at the time I lived there you gave the cop who was patrolling the Plaza .20 Centavos or when you came back to your car the license plates were gone and you couldn't get your car out of the country. If you paid the bribe nothing was ever missing from your car. Bribery is the way of life in Mexico.
 

American Rage

Inactive
Troke, that old "support Mexico because if you don't you'll have a revolution on our doorstep" song is getting REALLY old. It's blatant fear-mongering. Implicit in the statement is that we MUST take in Mexico's "overflow" of refugees and support them, because if we DON'T, we'll have another Hugo Chavez, on our border and ready to invade.

Hell man, LET IT COME! At least if we DID have that, there would be political incentive to CLOSE THE DAMN BORDER WITH ARMED TROOPS!

I will never bow to the "just accept your rape, because if you fight it, it'll just be worse for you" argument....

Call it fear mongering if you will, but it's true. The problem is, as I see it, that we haven't demanded enough from Mexico. Such as land reform, individual rights, and the freedom to defend yourself.

I guarantee it, if the peasants had something to fight for, and the means to do so (i.e., firearms), Mexico wouldn't have this problem. Instead, the Marxist are giving them something to fight for as well as the guns to do it with.


America will soon be surrounded.


Rage
 

jed turtle

a brother in the Lord
Better yet, decriminalize weed, and execute the smugglers and dealers of every other drug.

Rage

i would slightly restate that thought to include decriminalizing every natural plant, and rounding up every dealer/ smuggler of concentrated drugs (ie hash, THC, opium, heroin, etc, and sending them to hard labor camps in the desert for long terms. maybe digging a 40' deep trench along the Mexican border.

this has always been crystal clear to me: criminalizing a natural plant is anti-biblical (reference Genesis where God says "i give you every green plant bearing seed for your food"), and absolutely foolish. once a psychotropic plant is made illegal, it becomes the gateway "drug" for exposure via dealers to seriously addicting/crippling drugs. i do NOT advocate use of psychotropic plants (anymore...) but to criminalize them is criminal.

but this is only half of Mexico's/ America's problem. the other half is indeed the Catholic Church's failure to address it's historic demand for large families in a finite world. that too, is criminal. it insures war, disease and poverty for millions.
 

Hermit

Inactive
There's no Catholic mandate to have large families whatsoever, Jed. It's just that artificial contraception is seen as thwarting God's will by killing the embryo.

Unfortunately the natural methods of contraception that don't kill an embryo, are pretty much ineffective.
 

Rearden Steel

Veteran Member
Call it fear mongering if you will, but it's true. The problem is, as I see it, that we haven't demanded enough from Mexico. Such as land reform, individual rights, and the freedom to defend yourself.

I guarantee it, if the peasants had something to fight for, and the means to do so (i.e., firearms), Mexico wouldn't have this problem. Instead, the Marxist are giving them something to fight for as well as the guns to do it with.


America will soon be surrounded.


Rage

I will second this......we should have required land reform, the right to bear arms, etc as a requirement to any trade agreement.

They are their own worst enemy. Generation after generation of robbing the national treasure and squandering natural resources.......RS
 

corona

Senior Member
Lordy lordy

Troke-we need to either take the place over or nuke a DMZ...say 30 miles inside Mexican territory from sea to shining gulf.

There isnt any words to discribe how stupid that statement is...Mods can you get a stupid avatar for us to use??
 

Cascadians

Leska Emerald Adams
I was born and raised in Tucson but never went to Mexico -- too unsafe.

Hopefully all those illegal invaders who were working in the USA took back some know-how and desire and moxie to build a better community in their hometowns.
 

Jumpy Frog

Browncoat sympathizer
Close the border with troops? We are going to machine-gun women and kids swimming the Rio Grande, right there on Channel 6? Why do I doubt that? And with modern tech, there is no way it will be kept off Channel 6.

"If" they bypassed the warning signs, barbed wire, wall, less-than-leathal counter measures, more warnings, command detonated and static mine fields, remote gun turrets, etc...........then yes, regretibly. If you allow even the kids here they will ruin us, just as they have ruined their own country. We have enough outlaws here, we don't need more criminals sneaking in........gun them down. After a few reports on Channel 6.........I bet you'd see a drop in violations by the criminal invaders. :groucho:

Frankly, if Mexico descends into utter chaos, we may have to pull a Georgia on this. And we had better be ready. I have seen a couple of posts in the near past suggesting this and I don't think those people are the lunatic fringe. They may the only ones around here actually giving this entire problem some thought.

Had this talk with a soldier with some knowledge on this subject, when the MSM was condeming Georgia for trying to regain it territory. He used the Mexican issue as a way of comparission. FWIW, he's half Mexican.
 

Cardinal

Chickministrator
_______________
but this is only half of Mexico's/ America's problem. the other half is indeed the Catholic Church's failure to address it's historic demand for large families in a finite world. that too, is criminal. it insures war, disease and poverty for millions.

Actually, the Catholic Church has historically demanded that humans give up the greed, self-centeredness and pettiness which insures war, disease and poverty for millions. Mexico's problem is, it hasn't listened.
 

Troke

Deceased
"...If" they bypassed the warning signs, barbed wire, wall, less-than-leathal counter measures, more warnings, command detonated and static mine fields, remote gun turrets, etc...........then yes, regretibly. If you allow even the kids here they will ruin us, just as they have ruined their own country. We have enough outlaws here, we don't need more criminals sneaking in........gun them down. After a few reports on Channel 6.........I bet you'd see a drop in violations by the criminal invaders. .."

I am talking refugees fleeing in terror from what is behind them. Wake up and smell the coffee. No way are we going to machine gun them. Let us hope it does not come to that. But it would not surprise me if we had to pull a Georgia here if they start coming across the Rio Grande in waves 60 miles wide and 20 miles deep. Not good.
 

Jumpy Frog

Browncoat sympathizer
"...If" they bypassed the warning signs, barbed wire, wall, less-than-leathal counter measures, more warnings, command detonated and static mine fields, remote gun turrets, etc...........then yes, regretibly. If you allow even the kids here they will ruin us, just as they have ruined their own country. We have enough outlaws here, we don't need more criminals sneaking in........gun them down. After a few reports on Channel 6.........I bet you'd see a drop in violations by the criminal invaders. .."

I am talking refugees fleeing in terror from what is behind them. Wake up and smell the coffee. No way are we going to machine gun them. Let us hope it does not come to that. But it would not surprise me if we had to pull a Georgia here if they start coming across the Rio Grande in waves 60 miles wide and 20 miles deep. Not good.

Why are they "fleeing in terror" again? Anyway, they have three other directions they can go East, South and West........nothing is forcing them our way, but our lax enforcement and their evil ways. A few planes loads of VX gas (if you think gun shots would make for bad TV) would put a cramp on their evil invasion plans.:msk: {Joking here} We need to repeal these invaders anyway possible.

Otherwise, be prepared to write off SoCal, AZ, NM and TX. IIRC TX is pretty set on staying none Mexican..........something about an Alamo.:whistle: Hell the US can barely keep TX American.:D
 

Troke

Deceased
"...Why are they "fleeing in terror" again? Anyway, they have three other directions they can go East, South and West........nothing is forcing them our way, but our lax enforcement and their evil ways..."

For the same reason that 10% of the population of Cuba fled, and you will note that fleeing Mexico is a lot easier. And what they are going to be fleeing is slaughter, or the fear of slaughter.

Let us hope I am wrong, dead wrong. Because if I am right, I know one thing. Few on this forum have a clue as to what will happen. And I know one other thing for sure. We are not going to shoot fleeing refugees, so get that little Dreaming Sheep syndrome out of your head.

So what to do? Good question. I have no good idea myself other than worry about it. Yet, for a bunch of doomers who see potential disasters everywhere, I find it odd that hardly any see a problem here.

BTW, if I was to do something that the US would find almost impossible to handle, eat up gobs of time, resources, and executive energy, fomenting major unrest in Mexico that impinges on our border would be near the top of the list.
 
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