ECON To those of you who've been around TB2K for a while...

Wombatcat

Bibliophile
I was reading all the Econ news and doom and fear today, and I started to wonder.

I wasn't on TB2k during the last recession(s), and I am comparably young, also (40), so by the time I started realizing that these sorts of things are important, well, there haven't been all that many for me to experience. Actually, I believe it was TB2K that finally opened my eyes to the role the economy plays in everything and the role(s) that everything plays in the economy....

So I started thinking, "All of these people are very pessimistic and I am too. I wonder if people get this doom-laden during every recession, or if this one is 'special'".

So to those of you who can draw on your memories,
Is this a scarier recession than the ones you have experienced? Especially compared to ones that have been discussed on TB2K?

Have people tended to think "This is the big one, the next Great Depression" every time there is a recession, or is this one "special"?:popcorn1:
 

Turnpike Jim

Inactive
Although many here will argue otherwise, we are not in a Recession. That is a technical term whose perameters have not been met.

That does not mean we are not in tough times. Your participation in these tough times are determined by your own situation, circumstances and attitude.It is not based on what others want you to believe, or how bad someone else has it. Mitigate your own situation.

Jim
 

Bret4207

Senior Member
If you study up a bit you'll find the Great Deprerssion of the 1930's was a world wide derpression. I won't go into what European leaders thought of FDRs policies and his talent at keeping the depression going. The difference now is much of the rest of the workld in in a bit better shape than it was then. I tend to think this depression will be Americas depression rather than world wide.
 

OldMan

Candy’s dandy, but a back rub is quicker.
I'm not exactly a spring chicken.

The full force of this "recession" hasn't really hit yet, but this one, at the on-set, seems scarier (name your doom) than the start of the earlier recessions that I've been through.

:ld: OldMan :ld:
 

Mzkitty

I give up.
Well, I'm 63 and know nothing about a real recession or depression. As a child I always had a home, parents who worked, food on the table, and my parents had pretty secure jobs, even if they didn't have much money. Even if my mom got laid off from Kodak occasionally, they would always call her back.

I have always worked, and the economy never fazed me. What always fazed me was being laid off myself several times, mostly during the banking mergers back in the 80's, and most recently two years ago. Then I suffered immensely as a single mother, but I made sure we we always had a decent place to live and food on the table, and I always found another job as soon as I could.

So for ME, it's always PERSONAL. So far. I think this current/coming mess may be another critter altogether and I could get really scared if I let myself be. But instead I read the ECON gurus and prep as best as I can.

None of us has any guarantees, but we can only keep trying.

;)
 

KenGin31

Veteran Member
We're not there yet. I can remember companies asking everybody to take a ten percent cut so they can keep the doors open. And not just small companies. No jobs listed in the paper either.
 

jed turtle

a brother in the Lord
i am better situated than i was during the last several recessions. and yes, this thing that is coming at us is not just a recession but rather a perfect storm of catastrophe, for us and for the world.

china, india, europe, and the usa are on nearly equal footing economically in terms of needing energy and having the means to acquire it by importing it.

and the energy source is oil primarily from the middle east, which the muslims have a lock on. and the muslims have been at war with the entire world for 1300 years plus. only this time, they are acquiring the money and technology to level the playing field, figuratively and physically (think weapons of mass destruction).

AND America's experiment with fiat money for the last 95 years is clearly approaching the final chapter. the only real source of wealth has been raw resources and manufacturing and we're running pretty low on those special sources.

meanwhile, the Trojan Horse of illegal aliens (non-assimilating, and non-loyal as well) amongst us threatens to overwhelm all our welfare safety nets, our hospitals, our schools, and our patience, while they simultaneously bid down the rate of labor here.

anyone that thinks this is going to be anything less than an economic catastrophe is deluded.
 

Milk-maid

Girls with Guns Member
Wombatcat,

I understand your question exactly! I have put this to the board several times. I think both here and elsewhere. In 1987 I had no idea anything was happening. That was supposedly one of the other recessions. I was totally oblivious and so I guess ignorance was bliss. I was pretty young back then and getting ready to be married so I guess I was distracted by love. If I was poor I didn't know it.

In 1983 I bought a small townhouse as a single girl and I had an ARM mortgage. I was a little concerned about the interest rates going up, but they didn't go up much. I always had spare cash in my pocket.

I sense much more this time than any other. It also seems that everyone else is becoming "Aware" too to some extent. If one thing or another is not getting them, then something else is. It feels to me like we are being bombarded from every direction... credit cards rates going sky high, gasoline rates, our food is poisoned, food costs, food shortages.... shortages, shortages, shortages, etc. People are more on edge.. and angry. How are we going to heat our house?

But the thing that gets me the most, from what I'm reading, is that we haven't seen the worst of it yet. Ignorance was bliss; the last time I skated. This time, I think if you're ignorant about world events, and haven't prepared economically to survive, a person is going to really suffer.

IMHO

MM
 

Hfcomms

EN66iq
Never in this nations history has the house of economic cards been stacked against us like it is today. Never!!! We are literally if not functionally bankrupt in America. Our national debt is going up parabolically, our manufacturing has pretty much moved off shore, our banking system is a house of mirrors ..... on and on it go's. I certainly don't need to go down the littany of items that we read about here every day and is on both the tube and print daily. This is a perfect economic storm that is brewing and there is no way out of it. Were looking at a complete and total economic collapse followed by hyperinflation.

In the 1930's we were still largely an agricultural society and many if not most people grew some of their own food, canned food, had pantry's and knew how to cook from scratch with the raw bulk ingredients. People had fairly large extended families and chances are the immediate families lived within commuting distance from each other. We had a pretty civil society and all pulled together. We were pretty much a homogenous society made up of largely white european immigrents with of course the black society as well. Very little asian, hispanic or other minorities.

Compare all that with today. We have a just in time inventory system in the stores. If trucking or transportation breaks down for more than a few days cities are out of food. We are largely urban and suburbanized with the food sources needing the extended trucking as well as processing to get it to the stores.

We are a dog eat dog society now with most people looking out for number one. Extended families living close to each other and taking care of each other are largely a thing of the past. We are no longer a "civilized" society in many ways. Few people raise any of their own food. They are in debt over and past their eyeballs. They no longer know how to do for themselves or take care of themselves without outside intervention. I could go on and on. We have become a dependent society and largely have not had to suffer the deprivations that comes with an economic collapse or depression.

There is increased racial strife of the types we've really not witnessed before. In addition to the white european and black heritages we have an increasing melting pot of asian, hispanic and middle eastern cultures coming to a clashing point. The perfect ingredients for the balkans type syndrome. Within a few days of the welfare checks not cashing and the food stores out of food we will see large scale rioting in our major cities and there is nothing the government can do to either mitigate it or prevent it. Big difference between now and the last great depression. This coming depression will make that one look like a sunday school picnic in comparision.
 

WakeMeUp

Veteran Member
Wombatcat,

I'm with you here. Good post/question. I've been around here, mainly as a lurker, since 1999. At times lately I get extremely freaked out reading about all of this, and at others I try to put it out of my mind and worry about my own little corner (struggling right now). Also, since I have been reading the forum for so long, I have seen so many TEOTWAWKI warnings come and go :whistle:, that I feel confused as to whether to believe "this is it" this time for real or just another false alarm. I just don't know anymore. :shk::confused: :shr:
 

Hermit

Inactive
I'm more worried than with previous crises.

The main cause of failure will be inflation from higher oil prices. That will make recovery from the mortgage crisis and from the collapse of the housing bubble more difficult, and the collapsing dollar is tying in to that.

There seem to be more crop failures lately largely due to climate changes, as well as use of corn for ethanol production .... these will make the price of food rise even faster than general inflation.

Unemployment will keep rising as corporations tighten their belts.

It seems almost inevitable to me that some major disaster such as terrorist nuking, hurricane, or earthquake will be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Ordinarily we could bounce back from one or two of these problems, but there's too much pummeling us from different directions all at once.
 

timbo

Deceased
First, I think we are in a recession heading for something a whole lot worse.

Over the years our govt (at every level) is lying more and more to cover their butt.
Take for instance on unemployment stats: They have been skewed so badly that the reporting is worthless.

Cost of living? Same thing. Fuel and food prices are not even in the equation!

So to say that we haven't filled the criteria for a recession right now would be correct if we use govt. figures.....or should I call them disfigures.

When I hit 18 in '59 and heading for the job market, we were in a very bad recession at least in MI.
You couldn't buy a job. But after working and being laid off from several jobs, I got into Dupont because my Dad worked there.
Then that was bad too. It took me 2 years to get 9 months seniority because I was laid off so much.

Since then, there have been several recessions that IMO, weren't as bad as 59 was.
Today? It isn't just jobs.......is it?

How many things that are all impacting us as a country and our economy that were not there in years past?

I won't list them.....I'm depressed enough.
 

Huntur

Inactive
I was reading all the Econ news and doom and fear today, and I started to wonder.

I wasn't on TB2k during the last recession(s), and I am comparably young, also (40), so by the time I started realizing that these sorts of things are important, well, there haven't been all that many for me to experience. Actually, I believe it was TB2K that finally opened my eyes to the role the economy plays in everything and the role(s) that everything plays in the economy....

So I started thinking, "All of these people are very pessimistic and I am too. I wonder if people get this doom-laden during every recession, or if this one is 'special'".

So to those of you who can draw on your memories,
Is this a scarier recession than the ones you have experienced? Especially compared to ones that have been discussed on TB2K?

Have people tended to think "This is the big one, the next Great Depression" every time there is a recession, or is this one "special"?:popcorn1:


Hi WomBatCat. Although my forum age is young, I been a lurker since '99. Regardless tho, the way I look at things this time around is that I try to base my opinions mostly on things that I know are true, then branch out from there, such as looking and forecasting Trends which are most likely to occur as a result of the facts. Unfortunately it takes digging to determine them because you will rarely hear facts or trends from the MSM.

Some facts include but of course are not limited to the crashing dollar, inflation, GM, Ford, IndyMac, BearStearns, Mortgage Crisis, Energy Crisis, the takeover of our Gov by the Rich, the cost of the Wars, the cost of fuel, the cost of food, and on and on and on and on. I do have to tell you tho.. for me, the event that really slapped me hard upside the head was a few years back when David Walker was making the rounds, screaming at the top of his lungs about where we were headed. The strangest thing happened tho. Nobody seemed to hear him. Nobody seemed to care. And why should they. The great citizens were all drunk with debt. Google Walker if you're not sure who he was. He quit his position in disgust earlier this year. If he's smart, he's probably living in Dubai. lol

To be honest tho... I have to often re-read a lot of whats occured in the past few years to remind myself its real. Otherwise, if I didnt pay atten to whats really going on, I would very easily be lulled to sleep by the MSM and the quiet and subtle movement of the sheeple herd. It's VERY EASY to be the frog in boiling water. Don't get me wrong tho. I'm not faulting you or anyone else that might think we may be ok. It's incredibly easy to feel that way after watching just a tiny bit of TeeVee. I'm guilty of that myself... Lord knows.

I'm not here on TimeBomb to try and convince you or anyone else that everything's going to hell in a handbasket. You need to do your research. Seek out the truth and pray on it. imo, you will need that inner voice... or that really quirky feeling in the pit of your stomach which tells you somethin aint right. Something bad is coming... the 'gut' feeling. You wont need me or anyone else to tell you whats going down. You'll know.
 

jesner

Veteran Member
I was taught that a recession is when your neighbor is out of work
and a depression is when I am out of work.....:D

There is always a range of experiences in any event. Even in depressions. My maternal grandfather lost his business and moved home to his fathers farm in Canada with his wife and three small children. My father does not remember a depression in that his father and grandfather always had enough money [not rich].

Do not assume the worse; but prep for it.
 

georgia101

Veteran Member
Like many here I've lived through more than my share of recessions. This one is quite different though. Most recessions it seemed to me mostly hit just a few areas of the economy and all of the other areas continued on as if nothing was happening. This time it seems to be spreading slowly out into the bulk of the economy and that is why I am worried. We've got problems this time that all seem to be coming to head at once. I don't see any way out of the housing derivatives mess, we've got Russia threatening to put missiles in Cuba again (anyone for the Cuban Missle Crisis part 2?), there are more people on the planet than we can feed, and worst of all, there's just way more bad things than I can list right now. I think that only the ultra rich will make it through this one unscathed.
 

Moggy

Inactive
My family and I were hurt very badly in the recession of the mid-50s and again in the recession of the mid-70s, where we had more to lose...but once again worked hard and struggled back. This time it is vastly different as to the surrounding environment: peak oil, resource wars, strange weather, the Patriot Act, neo-cons, government traitors in congress, deliberate destruction of the dollar, outsourced jobs, insourced illegals...we are on a descending arc to the pits. Protect yourself and your family, time is running out.

Moggy
 

michaelteever

Deceased
Different opinions from a number of sources.

I happened across this editorial today. He definitely is not a member or lurker here.

Thought you might find this original and somewhat misguided.

Michael

For fair use education/research purposes.

The link: http://www.buffalonews.com/248/story/398549.html

The article:

It’s not a depression

Robert Samuelson - Washington Post Writers Group
Updated: 07/24/08 6:36 AM


WASHINGTON — The specter of depression stalks America. You hear the word repeatedly. Are we in a depression? If not, are we headed for one? The answer to the first is “no”; and the answer to the second is “almost certainly not.” The use of “depression” to describe the economy is a case of rhetorical overkill that speaks volumes about today’s widespread pessimism and anxiety. A short history lesson shows why.

The Great Depression of the 1930s — the last time the term rightly applied — was industrial capitalism’s worst calamity. U. S. unemployment peaked at 25 percent in 1933; it averaged 18 percent for the decade. From 1929 to 1933, 40 percent of U. S. banks failed. People lost deposits; businesses and consumers lost access to credit. Over the same period, wholesale prices dropped a third, driving farmers and firms into bankruptcy. Farm foreclosures, shantytowns (called “Hoovervilles,” after the president) and bread lines followed.

This was a social, as well as an economic, breakdown. Our present situation bears no resemblance to this. In June, unemployment was 5.5 percent, slightly below the average since 1960 of 5.8 percent. It’s true that banks and investment banks have suffered large losses. But on the whole, the banking system seems fairly strong. Although profits in the first quarter of 2008 were down 46 percent from 2007, they totaled $19 billion even after $37 billion set aside for loan loss reserves. Overall corporate profits are still running at a near-record annual rate of $1.5 trillion.

The paradoxical thing about today’s economy is its strength. No kidding. Consider all the hand grenades lobbed at it. Higher oil prices. The housing implosion. Large layoffs in affected industries: autos, airlines, construction, mortgage banking. The “credit squeeze” triggered by losses on “subprime” mortgages. Despite all that, the economy hasn’t collapsed. It’s merely weakened. Output in the first quarter of 2008 was actually 2.5 percent higher than a year earlier.

To be sure, there are parallels with the Great Depression. People fear what they don’t understand or expect. In the early 1930s, no one really knew why the economy had deteriorated so rapidly. Similarly, much of today’s bad news was generally unpredicted: the higher oil prices; the losses on subprime mortgages; the collateral damage to financial markets; the sharp run-up of food prices.

People fear what’s next. They worry whether complex financial markets and a globalized economy are unstable. These are legitimate anxieties. Economist Nouriel Roubini of New York University believes additional losses at banks and investment banks are being disguised by lax accounting practices. If so, things might get worse.

Still, parallels are limited. With hindsight, economic historians ascribe the Great Depression to a passive Federal Reserve, which didn’t stop bank panics and allowed a dramatic drop in the money supply to worsen deflation. Today, no one can accuse Ben Bernanke’s Fed of being passive. It has sharply cut interest rates and, with the Treasury Department, performed repeated acts of artificial respiration on financial markets (rescuing Bear Stearns and, recently, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac). Indeed, some observers — including me — wonder whether the Fed’s aggressive policies to avoid an economic downturn might unwisely sanction higher inflation.

We are relearning an old lesson: The business cycle isn’t dead. Prosperity’s pleasures breed complacency and inspire mistakes that, in time, boomerang on financial markets, job creation and production. Just as expansions ultimately tend to self-destruct, so downswings tend to generate self-correcting forces. People pay down debts; pent-up demand develops; surviving companies expand. The Great Depression was an exception. The present economy would have to get much, much, much worse before it warranted the same appraisal.
 

Woolly

Inactive
Wombatcat, you pose a great question. However, the answer lies in the fact that there has never previously been as much rot within the world's financials as exists now. The complex nature of today's era of financial instruments has complicated the task of understanding the true nature of the world's financial system and the true extent of its exposure (derivatives).

Today, we are talking about literally trillions of dollars of exposure (debt or likely indebtedness). The sums exceed the world's capacity to service such debts, so it is a given that not only we, but many abroad, are insolvent. So far, only the housing bust is being examined and talked about. But, private and government retirement programs are believed to be riddled with paper assets that will not, cannot, be honored. So, in addition to being underfunded, it will soon emerge that the funds that were available were too often invested in "toxic waste" securities. Many pensions will soon not be honored.

You've heard and read much about the 'true' condition of the banking system in the Western world. In truth, the banking system has invested its own capital as well as depositor funds into faulty securities (Securities for which there is no return of interest or principal). The full story is not known yet, but there is now every indication that the worst case possible is going to emerge.

The level of debt at the Federal, State and Local Governments, corporate and private individuals, when combined with the lack of savings in society, is simply to large to be serviced. In short, the unimaginable is about to happen. Governments will soon begin to bankrupt (In truth, it has already started), and the 'paper' of large corporations will fail. I read recently that the average debt on credit cards was on the order of thousands of dollars. When the interest rates on such debt approach 25%, it must be seriously questioned if those debts can or will ever be paid. It is not likely, in my view.

In other words, the debt structure is imploding. There is nothing, it would appear, that can stop the collapse.

There are some significant differences between the financial conditions of the Federal Government in 1930 and now. The major difference is that the financial condition of the Government then was excellent - very little debt. Further, there were few programs at the Federal level that required large sums of money to operate. Today, the opposite is true.

The Federal Government is deeply in debt, way beyond its present means, or projected means, to ever service. Further, there are so many current demands on the Treasury that even in good times they are more than the Treasury can support on present tax revenue (That's during the good times, remember). So, the Treasury must enter the credit markets every week and borrow ever more money just to keep the Government's current obligations covered. The strain is so great that even the Federal Government's credit rating is being put at risk (The current housing bill making its way through the Congress is predicted to crush the dollar and undermine the bond markets).

If so, these will be major failures such that they will likely crush what is left of the economy. We have not mentioned the price and availability of food and fuel. The contribution of these two factors are both problematic for the economy.

You ask: Will this recession be worse than the others? The answer, in my view, is that it will not only be worse, but far worse than anything we or the world has experienced in the last 250 to a 1000 years. So much worse that when I think about it I am at a loss as to what to do to save my family from its ravages.

It is considered in some circles to be trite, but prayer - heart felt prayer - seems to be the only remedy for what is coming down the track. As one wag has put it "Due to the high cost of electricity, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned out."

IMO,

Woolly
 

BigBadBossyDog

Inactive
We are definitely not in a recession. But if people keep watching crap like CNN, MSNBC, other like so-called news outlets, we will talk ourselves into one.

Buck up and chin up. Life is what you make it. If you're close to personal recession, you earned it by unwise spending and you have nobody to blame but yourself.
 

Rearden Steel

Veteran Member
We are definitely not in a recession. But if people keep watching crap like CNN, MSNBC, other like so-called news outlets, we will talk ourselves into one.

Buck up and chin up. Life is what you make it. If you're close to personal recession, you earned it by unwise spending and you have nobody to blame but yourself.

BBBD. I have question for you. In 2000 the US (government, all levels, indivdiuals and companies) were in 27 TRILLION dollars in debt. By 2007, that number increased to 48 TRILLION dollars. How and who will pay it back?
 

workerbee

* Winter is Coming *
BBBD. I have question for you. In 2000 the US (government, all levels, indivdiuals and companies) were in 27 TRILLION dollars in debt. By 2007, that number increased to 48 TRILLION dollars. How and who will pay it back?

Why, we'll print more money of course (duh).
 

BaywaterRoss

Inactive
I was reading all the Econ news and doom and fear today, and I started to wonder.

I wasn't on TB2k during the last recession(s), and I am comparably young, also (40), so by the time I started realizing that these sorts of things are important, well, there haven't been all that many for me to experience. Actually, I believe it was TB2K that finally opened my eyes to the role the economy plays in everything and the role(s) that everything plays in the economy....

So I started thinking, "All of these people are very pessimistic and I am too. I wonder if people get this doom-laden during every recession, or if this one is 'special'".

So to those of you who can draw on your memories,
Is this a scarier recession than the ones you have experienced? Especially compared to ones that have been discussed on TB2K?

Have people tended to think "This is the big one, the next Great Depression" every time there is a recession, or is this one "special"?:popcorn1:

There's nothing special about today's economic times. Don't let the alarmists on this board bug you. If a fly lands on a wall SOMEONE from TB2K will say "We're all gonna die!" :lol:

jesner has it right...
jesner said:
I was taught that a recession is when your neighbor is out of work and a depression is when I am out of work....

I've been through a bunch of recessions and at those times I was well employed and highly paid. Other people were whining and complaining and I was making money hand over fist and living well.

After awhile, you'll learn who the alarmists are and can tune them out. Or just add them to your Ignore list. (A wonderful feature on this board.)

All you need to do is climb above the turbulence and you'll ride smoothly.

-Ross
 

BigBadBossyDog

Inactive
BBBD, may I ask what type of job or business you are in?

I own my own retail business. My products are in store and online. I make and sell what would be considered a "luxury", i.e., my products are not a necessity, not by any stretch of the imagination. They are comfort consumables.

Retail sales this year are more than double what they were last year. In some months, triple and even quadruple.

www.SunshineWaxWorks.com
 

Milk-maid

Girls with Guns Member
We are definitely not in a recession. But if people keep watching crap like CNN, MSNBC, other like so-called news outlets, we will talk ourselves into one.

Buck up and chin up. Life is what you make it. If you're close to personal recession, you earned it by unwise spending and you have nobody to blame but yourself.

So you're saying this is all a state of mind? An Illusion? We can control all this by what we watch on TV and how we think?

BBBD, you're entitled to your opinion, but I think somewhere you went off track.
 

BigBadBossyDog

Inactive
We can control all this by what we watch on TV and how we think?

Absolutely. If you hear it often enough, you will believe it and act accordingly.

Again, your personal situation is just that: yours. America as a whole is not in a recession, no matter how many times you hear the word.

Turn off the TV, especially garbage like CNN and that incredible lunatic, Chris Matthews, stay away from gloom and doom people, think for yourself, and be realistic. You might come to the conclusion things aren't as bad as some would have you to believe.

Another helpful tip would be to examine the word "recession" and learn what the definition is. It's not a matter of opinion. The word actually has a meaning.
 

G-Man

Inactive
Absolutely. If you hear it often enough, you will believe it and act accordingly.

Again, your personal situation is just that: yours. America as a whole is not in a recession, no matter how many times you hear the word.

Turn off the TV, especially garbage like CNN and that incredible lunatic, Chris Matthews, stay away from gloom and doom people, think for yourself, and be realistic. You might come to the conclusion things aren't as bad as some would have you to believe.

Another helpful tip would be to examine the word "recession" and learn what the definition is. It's not a matter of opinion. The word actually has a meaning.



Turn off the TV, especially garbage like CNN and that incredible lunatic, Chris Matthews,

AND FOX NEWS!!!!:kk2:


get involved LOCALLY! Know what your LOCAL governments are up to. Keep a close watch on your governor and representives, your town mayor and county comissionors, know who your state ELECTORAL VOTERS are,
THESE ARE THE PEOPLE YOU CAN DIRECTLY VOTE FOR.
Forget about the Global BS it is all hype and day dreams!

AND FOR GOD SAKE TUNE OFF THAT BRAINWASHING TELEVISION!!!!
 
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Milk-maid

Girls with Guns Member
Absolutely. If you hear it often enough, you will believe it and act accordingly.
...Again, your personal situation is just that: yours. America as a whole is not in a recession, no matter how many times you hear the word.

I can turn off the TV and my computer and I would still see the buying power of my fixed income going down. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see I have to pay more to fill up my gas tank, put food on the table and heat my house. My retirement income is not rising at the same rate as the cost of goods are.

Is that my imagination? I think not. It's not bad planning. I did everything the right way. The way I was taught by people who said to save, work hard and get a pension. Pay off debt. I've been frugal and don't live beyond my means. But it is still affecting me. I feel it physically. The only thing I did wrong from what I can see, is I didn't become a rich person in my lifetime. I was a lowly public servant and did it because it was the right thing to do.

MM
 

G-Man

Inactive
Topic Review (Newest First)
Today 01:29 PM
Milk-maid

I can turn off the TV and my computer and I would still see the buying power of my fixed income going down. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see I have to pay more to fill up my gas tank, put food on the table and heat my house. My retirement income is not rising at the same rate as the cost of goods are.

Is that my imagination? I think not. It's not bad planning. I did everything the right way. The way I was taught by people who said to save, work hard and get a pension. Pay off debt. I've been frugal and don't live beyond my means. But it is still affecting me. I feel it physically. The only thing I did wrong from what I can see, is I didn't become a rich person in my lifetime. I was a lowly public servant and did it because it was the right thing to do.

MM

:shr:
I see nothing wrong with a LITTLE gloom and doom, it keeps one more in perspective and on your toes!

Let's face it the Party Days are OVER as the housing AND credit bubbles have popped! American consumers are tapped out!!!!!(even if noone wants to admit it or give it a politically correct label)
 

ittybit

Inactive
From WomBatCat

<<So I started thinking, "All of these people are very pessimistic and I am too. I wonder if people get this doom-laden during every recession, or if this one is 'special'".

So to those of you who can draw on your memories,
Is this a scarier recession than the ones you have experienced? Especially compared to ones that have been discussed on TB2K?

Have people tended to think "This is the big one, the next Great Depression" every time there is a recession, or is this one "special"?>>

Depends who here you talk to. For me I have too often thought "this is it", and it wasn't. Last year I had to stop doing that to myself. But it was quite an adjustment because I still viscerally believe we are headed off a cliff. Since trying to let go of that "imminent doom" thing it has been hard in its own way with the conflict of feeling the doom and trying to live in such as way as to admit that many times tomorrow isn't all that bad.

All that said, I feel this is "IT", but that may jinx it, huh? I may be the ultimate contrary indicator so to speak. There's alot of accumulate sh!t sitting about 3 feet over our collective heads, the rafters are sagging and creaking omninously.

But then again it could all just go away tomorrow after much hand wringing. Seems to have happened that way for the past 10 years or so. Crisis, swept under rug. Crisis, swept under rug. Mighty lumpy rug over the years! Pretty stinky, too.

I just ordered a fill up on my LP tank (which I own) $2.40 per gallon. Was $1.50 last year. 450+ gallons = extra $400 out of my pocket. Seems like alot of more out of my pocket is going on these days. Ouch.

Maybe it'll all blow over. Maybe I will one day look younger and prettier (?!) :-)
 

BigBadBossyDog

Inactive
the housing AND credit bubbles have popped! American consumers are tapped out!!!!!(even if noone wants to admit it or give it a politically correct label)

I'll give it a politically incorrect response.

WTF were people buying houses for if they couldn't afford them? ARMs? Sure......go for it. Never mind the consequences.

And credit? Again, WTF! If you can't afford it, don't buy it. Put it on a credit card? Good on you, and suffer the consequences.

How incredibly stupid can people be? Waaaaaaaaaaa.

What pisses me of is that as an American taxpayer, I now have to bail these losers out of their mess. And I don't appreciate it one little bit!

 

fruit loop

Inactive
I was MUCH worse off in the late 80s - early 90s than I am now.

This is going to be tough but I can ride it out. Gas prices are the worst. Housing/food/job are okay.

I have never been into "get the latest gadget, have all new stuff." I have always, in good and bad economies, only bought things on an as-needed basis.
 

BigBadBossyDog

Inactive
So to those of you who can draw on your memories,
Is this a scarier recession than the ones you have experienced? Especially compared to ones that have been discussed on TB2K?

You keep referring to it as a recession. Why? Look up the word "recession". Do some research. If you continually refer to today's economic conditions as a recession, you lose credibility.

I'm 64. Today is nothing like it was when I was growing up on a farm in Kansas. If you're much younger than 55, you have no clue what hard times are. And this ain't it!
 

BaywaterRoss

Inactive
I'll give it a politically incorrect response.

WTF were people buying houses for if they couldn't afford them? ARMs? Sure......go for it. Never mind the consequences.

And credit? Again, WTF! If you can't afford it, don't buy it. Put it on a credit card? Good on you, and suffer the consequences.

How incredibly stupid can people be? Waaaaaaaaaaa.

What pisses me of is that as an American taxpayer, I now have to bail these losers out of their mess. And I don't appreciate it one little bit!


Yep!

When I bought my house, I based my "looking" price range on a payment that I could afford for a fixed-rate loan. Not some ARM that would get me into a bigger place. I didn't overbuy and then have to try to sell in order to get out of debt. I'm still in the same home. And it's a home, not a gamble. If other folks want to gamble with their homes, that's their folly!

Same for credit... I didn't overextend.

Fixed income? Yeah, I'm on a fixed income. But so is almost every wage-earner out there. Just because prices go up doesn't mean they can go to their employer and demand an increase and receive one! Heck, in years past, when I was working, I went WITHOUT a raise because it was a hard time for the company. I've known others who had to take a pay CUT during those times. Especially after 9/11/2001.

Life happens. Get used to it. :lol:

-Ross
 

rhughe13

Heart of Dixie
The financial problem in America far outweighs what the word recession can begin to define.

A recesison is 2 straight quarters where there is a loss in the GDP which mysteriously never happens.

All we have to do is have an economic bump every 2 quarters to save being labled a dirty word, no matter what decline our country is in.

There are a better group of words that describe what most Americans are going through in a financial matter. All of which are created by both political parties in Washing DC

  • Outsource as many American jobs as possible (NAFTA, CAFTA, FTAA)
  • Import all others (Illegal Immigration)
  • Destroy the Dollar (No monetary backing ie gold/silver)
  • Hide the Dollars True Value from public (M3)
  • National Debt + Debt for unconstitional wars
  • Destroy faith in property rights (4th in kelo)
  • Allowing foreign ownership of US property
  • Foreign Handouts (10 billion more for aids)
  • Trade Deficit
 

Double_A

TB Fanatic
Although many here will argue otherwise, we are not in a Recession. That is a technical term whose perameters have not been met.

That does not mean we are not in tough times. Your participation in these tough times are determined by your own situation, circumstances and attitude.It is not based on what others want you to believe, or how bad someone else has it. Mitigate your own situation.

Jim

Correct sir!


P.S. you really don't believe gov published stats do you?
 

Brutus

Inactive
To me, it's mostly a matter of perspective and your personal situation.

1) If you own a ridiculously-overpriced house with a huge note - as a percentage of your personal income, you could end up screwed.

2) If you own a lot of expensive vehicles with huge notes, you could end up screwed.

3) If you owe a ton of money on credit cards, you could end up screwed.

4) If you have lots of expensive hobbies that you won't turn loose of, you could end up screwed.

5) If you live in an area that has been ruined economically by greedy unions and nanny-state gov't taxing and regulating business to the point that said businesses have to pack up and move out of state/overseas or go broke, you could end up screwed.

6) If you live in an area that has been ruined economically by greedy corporations who packed up and moved overseas for no other reason than to give it's top management multi-million dollars in bonuses and raises, you could end up screwed.

7) If you live in an area that has an over-large percentage of the population laying up on their lazy asses living on gov't checks and pumping out more worthless offspring who will most likely grow up to do the same, you could end up screwed.

8) If you have no training or skills that truly matter as far as the basic needs of a society are concerned, you could end up screwed.

9) If you work in a business/own a business that depends upon large quantities of imported goods at cheap prices continuing to flow and has no possiblity of alternative sourcing, you could end up screwed.

10) If you work in a top-heavy, over-staffed state or local bureaucracy, you could end up screwed. (The federal gov't, on the other hand, will most likely maintain or even increase it's top-heavy, over-staffed bureaucracy to the bitter end.)

11) If you work in a field that could easily be moved out-of-state or overseas, you could end up screwed.

12) If you depend entirely on investments, pension money, and/or gov't payments for your income, you could end up screwed.

This list is by no means intended to be all-inclusive; these were just several things that popped into my head when I read down thru this thread. I personally don't fit any of the aforementioned categories. Many people that I know and many people in general fit AT LEAST HALF of the aforementioned categories.

Far too many people think that their situation is tenable, but they fall either wholly or partly into category #8. Just one example in particular: A guy I know is in that situation. He is a welder. That's a good basic skill that is needful to society. However, his wife is a manicurist and they depend on her entire income as a manicurist to pay their house note. Without that, they'd have to give up the house they live in and move back in with one or the other's parents or make other bare-bones arrangements for housing.

Something to keep in mind where employment is concerned: The strongholds of US economic production that least fit into any of the job-related categories I mentioned are agriculture, forest products, and mining. Jobs in these three fields or jobs that are in direct support of these fields are usually the last to dry up.

Just some random thoughts that may be instructive and of assistance......

:wvflg:
 
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