LEGAL Commentary on the constitutional legality of Obama's community service scheme.

Troke

Deceased
http://volokh.com/

Mandatory Community Service is a Basic Assault on Anglo-American Liberty.-- Every year around so-called “tax freedom” day, people talk about moving from working for the government to working for themselves. But this is too glib because it conflates paying taxes with compelled physical labor. There is a big difference, one central to the history of Anglo-American liberty.

Under the medieval system in much of Europe, serfs or peasants owed obligations of actual physical labor (beyond military service) to their political overseers. As English liberties grew, this obligation of physical labor was replaced by the right to pay taxes instead, with the chief exception being obligations of military service for males. Free men were increasingly free to choose their line of work and pay their political overseers with money, rather than owing an obligation of service to whatever physical tasks happened to be thought important or profitable to the upper and the political classes.

Service Nation is an organization devoted to stripping away this bulwark of Anglo-American liberty, hoping by the year 2020 to require every young American man and woman to be drafted into either military or community service. Their more immediate goals include passing a National Service Act in 2009 (which would probably not require universal service).

But they do not even discuss the Constitutional Amendment that ought to be required before they can mandate community service and take away the hard-won Anglo-American liberty from involuntary servitude. The Constitution gives the Federal Government the power to raise a military, which in the 18th century contemplated an obligation of male citizens to serve in the military. In my opinion, the Constitution does not give the Federal Government the power to compel community service.

Let’s hope that the Supreme Court would not permit Service Nation's move backwards to a more feudal relationship between ordinary people and the people who govern them. One senses that de Toqueville understood American values of volunteerism and freedom of association much better than the people behind Service Nation, an understanding that was also concerned about the tyranny of the majority.

UPDATE: Service Nation's coordinator, Alan Khazei, argues that doing community service turns on one's "'justice nerve. . . . And once a justice nerve is turned on, it rarely goes off."

It seems to me that, if it really turned on one's justice nerve, one would have a good enough sense of justice to oppose Service Nation's unjust goal of state-mandated public service. I wonder whether instead forced community service would tend to turn on one's "collectivist nerve."
 

Bad Hand

Veteran Member
That sounds just like what the Nazi did in Germany the more I hear about Obamanation the more I dislike him.
 

Amaryllis

Inactive
http://volokh.com/ I wonder whether instead forced community service would tend to turn on one's "collectivist nerve."

I get the impression collectivism is the whole point behind this thing. Here are some quotes from my link that I found earlier.

"Why Service? Why This Campaign?

- Service is the great equalizer.

- Service builds community among people, regardless of their race, gender, or socioeconomic status.

- Service allows us to participate in something bigger than ourselves.

- Service demonstrates that our commonalities as a people are greater than our individual differences.

- In the act of transforming our communities for the better, we end up transforming ourselves.

Now, more than ever, we need to expand opportunities for people to serve. Because we have serious issues to address:

- our education system is failing a significant percentage of our kids

- hunger and homelessness run rampant in our communities

- our parks, rivers, and open spaces need protection

- college has ceased to become affordable to most of us

Service can be a vehicle, to simultaneously address our most pressing unmet societal needs in a real way, for continuing our quest for the American Dream."


"The Day of Action will take place on Saturday, September 27th, 2008. This date was specifically chosen because it is:

- the day after the first Presidential debate
- the day after Congress adjourns for recess, and therefore most congressional members will be in their home districts on this day.
- Public Lands Day, a day to highlight and celebrate our public green spaces across the country. "
 

Thunderbird

Veteran Member
Deos the constitution even exist anymore? The court ignores it, the politicians ignore it,
lawers ignore it, LEO's ignore it.
 

Kalliope

Inactive
Where did Obama say mandatory? His idea is in exchange for very low student loans, a college student does 50 hours PER YEAR in community service. How in the world is 50 hours peonage? Give ya'll an inch and ya'll take it for miles. Why didn't ya'll go after Bush with such gusto - oh yeah, ya'll thought he is God's 2nd son.
 

rafter

Since 1999
Where did Obama say mandatory? His idea is in exchange for very low student loans, a college student does 50 hours PER YEAR in community service. How in the world is 50 hours peonage? Give ya'll an inch and ya'll take it for miles. Why didn't ya'll go after Bush with such gusto - oh yeah, ya'll thought he is God's 2nd son.

:rolleyes:
 

Oilpatch Hand

3-Bomb General, TB2K Army
Where did Obama say mandatory? His idea is in exchange for very low student loans, a college student does 50 hours PER YEAR in community service. How in the world is 50 hours peonage? Give ya'll an inch and ya'll take it for miles. Why didn't ya'll go after Bush with such gusto - oh yeah, ya'll thought he is God's 2nd son.

Well, Mrs. Obama did say that Barack Hussein Mohammed Obama would be a "stern taskmaster."

Michelle Hussein Mohammed Obama said:
"Barack Obama will require you to work. He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism … that you come out of your isolation. … Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed.”


Obama demands no more isolation, cynicism, or being uninvolved and uninformed. None of these will Barack Hussein Obama permit. He will never allow us to go back. Never. Above all, he will command us to labor.

This all sounds kinda mandatory to me. :lkick:
 

mbabulldog

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I wonder how his "must work" mantra will be received by those living well on the Welfare Rolls. All those social programs that help the "disadvantaged"...All those welfare Mommies are going to have to work, instead of being career baby-factories? Probably not...

He may be pissing off the very demographic that will vote him into office...
 

fruit loop

Inactive
I have seen nothing anywhere else to indicate that Obama's proposal would be mandatory, although it is proposed from time to time by different people.

That's why they call it "community service." Because it isn't volunteer work anymore.
 

twobarkingdogs

Veteran Member
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