CRIME Damn! Now they are shooting and killing firefighters. What next?

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FIRE_STANDOFF?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

-- A gunman shot at firefighters responding to a report of a burning pickup truck early Monday, killing one, then opened fire on other emergency workers, wounding two.

The incident began at 5:40 a.m. with a report of a pickup truck fire in Maplewood, a suburban town just southwest of St. Louis. When firefighters arrived, someone began firing shots.

St. Mary's Hospital spokesman Eric Clark said a firefighter/paramedic from Maplewood was killed. The city identified him as 22-year-old Ryan Hummert. Officials said he was shot to death as he got off the fire truck.

Hummert, the son of former Maplewood Mayor Andy Hummert, began his career in August 2007 after graduating from paramedic training. He graduated from the St. Louis County Fire Academy in March.

"He had been with the fire department for only 10 months but knew it was his calling," Fire Chief Terry Merrell said at a brief news conference as he fought back tears. "It's impossible to say in words the emotion and pain we are feeling right now."

A Maplewood police officer also was taken to St. Mary's Hospital, where he was being treated for a gunshot wound to the right shoulder. Clark said his injury was not considered life-threatening.

The third injured emergency worker was taken to another hospital. There was no immediate word on his condition.

Besides the burning truck, a house across the street was on fire. The suspect was believed to be inside the house. Dozens of police officers from Maplewood and nearby communities surrounded the brick bungalow, pointing their rifles at the home as smoke poured from it.

Around 10:30 a.m., the fire suddenly intensified and loud popping sounds could be heard, neighbor Lamira Martin told KSDK-TV.

"Oh my God, the windows are blowing out," Martin told the TV station.

Sanyoz Rai, who works at a 7-Eleven store nearby, said he heard three or four shots at around 5:45 a.m., then saw a police officer go to the ground holding his shoulder. Rai said he then saw a firefighter on the ground behind the truck. He said the firefighter remained there for an hour before authorities could get close enough to remove him.

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Is that burb some kind of slum? Having no knowledge of the place, I'd kinda like to know. Is there a crime problem there?

that would be Missouri


Jul 21, 1:07 PM EDT

Firefighter killed in St. Louis-area standoff
By CHERYL WITTENAUER
Associated Press Writer


AP Photo/Jeff Roberson




MAPLEWOOD, Mo. (AP) -- A gunman shot at firefighters responding to a report of a burning pickup truck early Monday, killing one, then opened fire on other emergency workers, wounding two.




what a sin........what a waste.

Hope the US.Gov sends in some black ops and cleans out that whole neighborhood.

I saw that on the news, too. Just horrible.

Another brother fallen. For those out there that do, stay safe. 1*...bring it home for your loved ones and for your sake.

And the outcome of the shooter???

Dennis Olson said:

Is that burb some kind of slum? Having no knowledge of the place, I'd kinda like to know. Is there a crime problem there?

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No, it's not a slum. It's on the southside of STL, which is usually pretty low key. The northside and eastside of STL are usually the hotspots. From local news reports the man who allegedly shot the fireman and police officers was a loner, didn't talk to anyone. The typical description.

prayers for his family i hope they can find some sort of peice in the coming months and years.


as for the shooter i hope he died in the fire it is a fitting warm up for what awaits him on the other side.

You all act as if this is a new thing. This has occurred in every race riot in Detoilet, Mich. They set fire to buildings and then snipe at the firemen.

Back in the 70's I met a fireman in San francisco that carried a small pocket pistol for protection. He was tired of threats and occasional atttacks of on firefighters beingperpetrated by peopleliving in the Tenderloin nd Western Addition.

Prayers for the fallen firefighters family.

RIP Bro.

Did the cops get the sniper or seal off the area?

Rage

American Rage said:

Did the cops get the sniper or seal off the area?

Rage

Click to expand...

Hopefully they just let the bastard burn.....

I've been following this since early this morning. Fox news had one little blurb early...and some live feed from a news chopper. For just a small segment, you could see the burning car, and two fireman in bunker gear taking cover behind one of the rear tires of the engine. Only a few feet away was the dead fireman, still in his gear. His comrades were only a few feet from him, but not able to recover him. The news chopper started to close-up on the scene....and then I think they realized the the fireman was laying there dead in the open. Fox news cut away quickly, and didn't run any other footage for quite sometime.

I can only hope that the family didn't see that footage. When I was a police officer....that was just one of the risks of the job that you didn't really think about....it always happened to someone else. But, I always had a soft spot for firemen and paramedics/emts.....that kind of crap is definitely not in their job description. I hope they let the fu@ker burn.

Here we go again!

Active shooter setting fires and gunning down firefighters and police.

What to do?

Form a barricade!

Sanyoz Rai, who works at a 7-Eleven store nearby, said he heard three or four shots at around 5:45 a.m., then saw a police officer go to the ground holding his shoulder. Rai said he then saw a firefighter on the ground behind the truck. He said the body remained there for an hour before authorities could get close enough to remove it.

At about 9:30 CDT police authorites told the news helicopters to back off to 3 miles away and forbid any live news coverage for "tactical considerations".

Well girls and boys, it's been twelve hours now and there is no suspect in custody and no live footage from the scene.

Neighbors have reported that one house has burned to the ground and other fires were set.

Just yesterday a seven hour standoff with St. Louis police ended with the gunman escaping and no further word on his whereabouts.

IMHO Major Major CYA from St. Louis Police.

What are we going to do when 12 man assasination teams from Al Quida start shooting up hometown USA.

Police and SWAT will duck and cover, just like they are trained....

14 hours later and authorites "believe" the assailant died in the fire.

No body found, no news conference, fire fighter laid dying in the street for an entire hour 'till his body was recovered.

St. Louis PD has -two- armored assault vehicles.

A pick up truck was set on fire, a house burned down after the media was told to stop filming. all power cut off to the neighborhood, reports of other fires set.

So essentially the cops gave the bad guy a one hour head start while they cowered behind cover?

I hope I am wrong .....

Maplewood is a just a normal, probably mostly middle-class burb though it has some fairly well-off neighborhoods and of course some that are not so well-off but if I recall having passed through there many times, this area was just your "normal" neighborhood.

Kris

Police/SWAT Intervention Time,

Columbine Colorado - 3 1/2 hours, dozens dead.

Denver Colorado Post Office - 3 hours, a dozen dead.

Texas McDonalds - 2 hours - seven dead.

Navistar Illinois - 3 hours - six dead.

Police/Swat Casualties = 0

Police/Swat Tactics = Duck and Cover. let 'em bleed out.....

gunmen like this kind the sniper types are usually white males. this aint no black thing. i bet his wife pissed him off or he got fired or something. there is a pattern to behavior. whats the difference between a cop and a firefighter? when a cop comes into the room and says everyone out!!, people flip him off and tell him to f off. when a firefighter comes into a room and says everyone out. people run like hell.

Bad guys come in all flavors.

I'm just worried about the "official" response when 10 -12 Al Quida or (fill in the blank) make a move.

Duck and Cover!

Form a perimeter!

Let 'em bleed out!

Geez folks, one would think you'd like to see some dead SWAT team types just kind of laying around the streets.

Troke,

I had a relative caught up in an "active shooter" situation.

Seven dead, three hours until SWAT entered the building.

What am I -supposed- to think?

That fire fighter in St. Louis should never have been bleeding out for an hour when the ST. Louis SWAT Team has not one, but two armored assault vehicles.

Duck and Cover!

Late, updated story

Jul 21, 7:02 PM EDT


St. Louis-area firefighter dies in apparent ambush

By CHERYL WITTENAUER
Associated Press Writer


MAPLEWOOD, Mo. (AP) -- Firefighters became victims of what appeared to be an ambush Monday when they were fired upon from a house as they worked to put out a vehicle fire across the street, police said. One young firefighter was killed, two police officers were wounded and the house where the shots were fired later burned to the ground.

It was unclear Monday afternoon whether the gunman died in the house fire; authorities were searching the remains of the brick bungalow, St. Louis County police spokeswoman Tracy Panus said.

Little was known about the man who lived in the house in Maplewood, a suburb just southwest of St. Louis. Neighbors described him as quiet and reclusive.

Someone began firing shots from the house when firefighters arrived in response to a 5:40 a.m. report of a pickup truck fire.

The city identified the slain firefighter as 22-year-old Ryan Hummert, son of former Maplewood Mayor Andy Hummert. Officials said he was shot to death as he got off the fire truck.

The firefighter had graduated from paramedic training in August and from the fire academy in March.

"He had been with the fire department for only 10 months but knew it was his calling," Fire Chief Terry Merrell said as he fought back tears. "It's impossible to say in words the emotion and pain we are feeling right now."

A Maplewood police officer was treated for a shoulder wound that was not considered life-threatening, St. Mary's Hospital spokesman Eric Clark said. There was no immediate word on the condition of the other wounded police officer, who was taken to another hospital.

Police evacuated some nearby homes - using armored vehicles in some cases - as dozens of officers surrounded the house.

"They knocked on my door - bam, bam!" said neighbor Joanna Bedford, who was asleep when police arrived. "They said, 'Let's go. Go right now!'"

The house caught fire later in the morning. Police rifles stayed pointed at the house as smoke poured from it, but authorities saw no one leave the building before it burned to the ground.

By the afternoon, the house had collapsed, Panus said, and police were using heavy equipment to sort through the debris. A neighboring home also was damaged by the fire.

Peter McCreary, a St. Louis County police chaplain, said his mother lives across the street. The burning truck was in her driveway, but it wasn't hers and she didn't know how it got there.

McCreary said his mother, 81-year-old Julia McCreary, awoke to what she thought was a backfiring vehicle. It turned out to be gunfire. Soon thereafter, police arrived and took her out a back door, carrying her over a fence to safety.

Julia McCreary told her son that in the two years she lived in the house she had waved to the man, but that he never spoke to her.

Sanyoz Rai, who works at a 7-Eleven store nearby, said he heard three or four shots around 5:45 a.m., then saw a police officer go to the ground holding his shoulder. Rai said he then saw a firefighter on the ground behind the truck. He said the body remained there for an hour before authorities could get close enough to remove it.

Black and purple bunting was placed around Maplewood City Hall, where people cried and hugged each other and the flag was lowered to half-staff.

"I can't believe someone would do this," said 9-year-old son Nathan Manestar, who came with his mother and brother to place flowers at the base of the flagpole.

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http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FIRE_STANDOFF?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

RIP Brother.

Police/SWAT Intervention Time,

Columbine Colorado - 3 1/2 hours, dozens dead.

Denver Colorado Post Office - 3 hours, a dozen dead.

Texas McDonalds - 2 hours - seven dead.

Navistar Illinois - 3 hours - six dead.

Police/Swat Casualties = 0

Police/Swat Tactics = Duck and Cover. let 'em bleed out.....

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This doesn't surprise me. When we lived in NZ, pretty much everyone knew that the police wouldn't show up for hours in a shooter situation. They didn't carry and would have to get a rifle from the trunk. The complaints were continuous about response times to anything but the most innocuous threat.

didnt something like this happen in drug neighborhood in Philadelphia a few years ago.

The mayor let whole city blocks burn to the ground when he suppressed the fire and police protection.

the bad guys shot it out, killed each other, and then the firestorms burned it all down.

Dont think we have read ANYTHING about Philadelphia since, come to think of it.

didnt something like this happen in drug neighborhood in Philadelphia a few years ago.

Click to expand...

I remember that. It got very little coverage.

I think it is a sad day for America. These men, put their lives on the line for us. Firemen, save lives. Now we have crazys out there killing them.just plain out wrong .

NC Susan said:

Hope the US.Gov sends in some black ops and cleans out that whole neighborhood.

Click to expand...

this attitude is EXACTLY what has led to the gvmt infringing on all our rights. so, just because the guy living next door to me goes nuts i should let the gvmt send black ops in to clean ME out of the neighborhood...regardless of whether i've done anything wrong?

so much for innocent until proven guilty.

"...That fire fighter in St. Louis should never have been bleeding out for an hour when the ST. Louis SWAT Team has not one, but two armored assault vehicles.."

Based on my 50+ yr old knowledge of the area, this was not in St. Louis City but somewhere out in St. Louis County. And given my experience with cop turf wars through the years, cold day in Hell before the County cops would call for help from the City cops. Thus no SWAT because the only SWAT I see here is City SWAT.

I may be totally wrong here, but it sure is true in lots of other places I have lived.

This gives me the chills. How much longer till some other looney copycat tries this for the "fame" just like Columbine? It was only a couple of months ago that someone in East St. Louis fired upon an ambulance, hitting one EMT, while they were making a run. Soon, no job out in the public will be safe.

36 hours later and no perp found!

I saw this story when it broke live and when the police chased the media away three hours later.

Guess what, no bad guy! Officials are clinging to the hope the bad guy is still in the debris.

Something is just not right. The day before, St. Louis LEO's lost a bad guy after a seven hour "standoff".

Could be major CYA in progress...

-------------------------


07/22/2008

UPDATED, 11:32 a.m.

MAPLEWOOD -- Arson investigators from St. Louis County pulled a weapon from the charred remains of a home today where a gunman shot and killed a firefighter and injured two police officers.

What they haven't recovered yet, though, are the remains of the gunman.

They got to the house in the 7400 block of Zephyr Place in Maplewood about 7:15 a.m. Tuesday. They immediately zeroed in on the home's basement, where the gunman is believed to have perished in the house fire Monday.

Investigators knocked down the last wall of the home about 9 a.m., and were working in the front part of the basement. More than a dozen people are searching in the rubble. They're using a backhoe and a screen to sift through some of the debris.

Mayor Mark Langston told reporters that detectives believe the home's owner was the shooter and that he perished in the fire. The man is Mark J. Knobbe, a 52-year-old recluse who has owned the home at 7440 Zephyr Place since July 1993.

Langston also confirmed today that the shooter used a high-powered rifle. Investigators are trying to find that weapon in the charred remains. About 11 a.m., they pulled out a metal structure that appeared to be a weapon.

"We're going through every piece of rubble and trying to get to the truth," Langston said at the scene today.

Events began about 5:40 a.m. Monday when firefighters from Maplewood's only fire station responded to the call. Knobbe owned a 1993 Toyota pickup truck that apparently was set on fire and exploded Monday in the driveway of a neighbor across the street from Knobbe's home.

Knobbe has no criminal record in St. Louis or St. Louis County and was up to date on paying his property taxes. Before buying his house on Zephyr, Knobbe had lived just around the block in an Maplewood apartment on Sutton Boulevard, records show.

More,

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...6DCF328F1CF2C1A78625748E0014866F?OpenDocument

Would everyone please make up their minds and choose option 1 or option 2-

Option 1- The police continue to try and develop new strategies and techniques and learn how to deal with the new breed of criminal. This may result in cops wearing black, body armor, helmets and boots. They may have automatic weapons, assault vehicles, learm military techiniques and use small explosives. They may also have to become larger in number in order to deal with the growing violent crimianl population.

Option 2- The cops watch reruns of Andy Griffith and Adam 12. They wear blue, have a 38 revlover and a stick. They smile alot and play guitar when the Darlins come to town. Aunt Bee makes sandwiches and Barney carries his bullet in his pocket. Everyone feels better because they aren't JBTs in black with guns we can't have using military thinking when dealing with bad guys.

Red Baron- FWIW- We've been undergoing active shooter training over the past year and the emphasis is on a fast response and take the target out-FAST. This is a new paradigm in law enforcement and sadly it takes a while to get up to speed on this. I don't know how often you've been shot at but I can assure you the first reaction is to duck. Training people to move into fire is not an easy thing to do.

Thoughts and prayers to the young man and his family.