WAR Russia threatens military action against missle shield?

DuckandCover

Proud Sheeple
I just read a blurb from briefing.com that said there was a rumor that Russia has threatened to take military action against the US missile shield if it was deployed near Russia.

Anybody hear anything about this? I'll look for links.



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So far, I have found news articles from 2007 saying that Russia made that threat. Briefing.com reported the news as part of the reason the stock market indexes have dipped this afternoon.

I'll keep looking.
 

DuckandCover

Proud Sheeple
This is from briefing.com

Stocks Retreat Into RedFont size: A | A | ATue Jul 8 14:00:00 EDT 2008 | Briefing.com
The stock market has retreated into negative territory, trading just below the unchanged mark.

Much of the session's story remains the same as financials (+0.7%) continue to guide trading. The sector has dipped further from its session high, inducing the broader market's decline.

Sources indicate that Russia stated it will use military means if the U.S. deployed a missile defense shield near Russian borders. The stock market's reaction to the news has been negligible.
 
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Russia threatens strike against U.S. missile shield: report

By Wallace Witkowski
Last update: 2:24 p.m. EDT July 8, 2008
www.marketwatch.com


SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Russia said it will respond to a U.S. anti-missile shield near its border with military action, according to Agence France-Presse Tuesday, citing a statement from the Russian foreign ministry.


"If a US strategic anti-missile shield is deployed near our borders, we will be forced to react not in a diplomatic fashion but with military resources," the statement said according to AFP.

The statement came after Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice signed an agreement with the Czech Republic to place a radar tracking station for the missile shield in that country

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EXTRA: Russia warns of 'military-technical' missile shield response

Posted : Tue, 08 Jul 2008 18:23:00 GMT
Author : DPA
Category :
www.earthtimes.org


Moscow - Russia warned late Tuesday that it would use a "military-technical" response to the US missile shield system which Washington plans deploying in Poland and the Czech Republic. The warning, reported by ITAR-TASS news agency quoting the Russian Foreign Ministry, came as US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice completed a deal in Prague for the Czechs to host the system's radar.


"If the agreement with the United States liable for ratification by the Czech parliament eventually becomes a law, and the deployment of US missile defence elements really starts in the direct proximity to our borders, we will have to use military-technical rather than diplomatic methods," the Russian ministry statement said.

"There is no doubt that the deployment of US strategic weaponry close to the Russian territory may be used for weakening our deterring potential," the statement said.

"Obviously, Russia will have to take appropriate measures and compensate the forming potential threats to its national security. This is not our choice."


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IMHO - The news hawks might want to watch this one between RUSS and Georgia. I have ran into, with-in the past hour, articles stating that Russia - Georgia - South Oseetia are about to have a military confrontation (of course, like everywhere else on the globe! We seem to have some interests in that region of the world to.





Russia seeks UN intervention to ease tension in Georgia

Jul 8, 2008, 18:20 GMT
www.monstersandcritics.com


New York - Russia asked the UN Security Council on Tuesday to call on disputing parties in Georgia to sign an agreement not to use force, as tensions mounted between Tbilisi and its breakaway South Ossetia region.

Russian UN Ambassador Vitaly Churkin said a draft resolution was submitted to the 15-nation council demanding a peaceful resolution of the conflict. South Ossetia has accused the Tbilisi government of preparing for an invasion.

South Ossetia declared independence from Georgia following the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. But the move was rejected by Tbilisi, which has been trying to stop South Ossetia and the Abkhazia province to secede.

Churkin said the draft is 'brief, but clear, to demand that the two sides sign immediately an agreement on the non-use of force'.

'At this moment, it's an absolute must to sign if we were to see some political progress and restoration of trust between the two sides,' he said.

Churkin said the draft would demand that the two sides comply with 1994 agreements and UN resolutions, which mainly call for a peaceful resolution of disputes over borders and territorial claims.



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genrim

Veteran Member
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,378065,00.html

Russia Warns of Military Response If U.S.-Czech Missile Defense Agreement Approved

MOSCOW — Russia will be forced to make a military response if the U.S.-Czech missile defense agreement is ratified, the Foreign Ministry said Tuesday.

The statement came hours after U.S. and Czech officials reached an initial agreement on deploying elements of a missile defense system in the Eastern European country.

Russia says the system would severely undermine European security balances by weakening Russia's missile capacity.

If the agreement is ratified, "we will be forced to react not with diplomatic, but with military-technical methods," the Foreign Ministry statement said. It did not give specifics of what the response would entail.

In February, then-President Vladimir Putin said Russia could aim missiles toward prospective missile defense sites and deploy missiles in the Baltic Sea region of Kaliningrad, which borders Poland, if the missile defense plan went forward.

The U.S. has pushed the plan as necessary to prevent missile attacks by rogue nations, pointing to Iran as a particular concern. But Russia dismisses the likelihood of such threats.
 

Breeta

Veteran Member
This reminds me of a conversation I had this weekend with a friend of mine. He's originally from Iraq (and was held POW in Iran for 8 years) and is convinced that if anything goes down between the US and Iran, the US will be at war with Russia as well. :shr: He was saying we shouldn't be so worried about Iran, but Russia...
 

Safecastle

Emergency Essentials Store
Well, I don't know about anyone else here, but this is turning back the clock for me. Back in the day when it was good to be red, white & blue and it was not good at all to be communist.

The Russians and their satellites were the enemy. We knew it. They knew it. Everyone else held their breath.

Now the whole world is layer upon layer of misdirection. "They" know what they're up to, we don't even know what WE'RE up to.

This saber-rattling may be scary to some, but in my view, we need to be able to delineate who the enemies are and where they are. If they want to roll up their sleeves and get dirty, I think we are still well-equipped to join them in the box.

Re-draw the borders, contain the hostiles in their own lands. Fight over the contested areas and support those who want to be free.

It really should be that simple. We let it become something totally different and we're paying hell for it across the board now.

Might need to take a few steps back to get ahead of the game.
 

Richard

TB Fanatic
Obviously, Russia will have to take appropriate measures and compensate the forming potential threats to its national security. This is not our choice


**** off Puking we're not gonna nuke you now get a ****ing life and listen to your beatle records
 

MC2006

Veteran Member
very well put JC!
MC2006
:wvflg:

Well, I don't know about anyone else here, but this is turning back the clock for me. Back in the day when it was good to be red, white & blue and it was not good at all to be communist.

The Russians and their satellites were the enemy. We knew it. They knew it. Everyone else held their breath.

Now the whole world is layer upon layer of misdirection. "They" know what they're up to, we don't even know what WE'RE up to.

This saber-rattling may be scary to some, but in my view, we need to be able to delineate who the enemies are and where they are. If they want to roll up their sleeves and get dirty, I think we are still well-equipped to join them in the box.

Re-draw the borders, contain the hostiles in their own lands. Fight over the contested areas and support those who want to be free.

It really should be that simple. We let it become something totally different and we're paying hell for it across the board now.

Might need to take a few steps back to get ahead of the game.
 

corona

Senior Member
Warday?

In the Fiction book, "War Day" the reason for the Russian surprise missile attack, was responce to the launching of the Missile defense System
 

MC2006

Veteran Member
U.S., Czech Republic Sign Missile Defense Deal

The Czech Republic today formally agreed to become home to a U.S. missile defense radar, Agence France-Presse reported (see GSN, July 7).

Czech Foreign Minister Karel Schwarzenberg and U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice signed the agreement in Prague.

“It's truly a landmark agreement,” Rice said. “It is an agreement that is befitting for friends and allies who face a common threat in the 21st century.”

Iran continues to develop its long-range missile capabilities while refusing to suspend sensitive nuclear activities, she said. “Ballistic missile proliferation is not an imaginary threat,” according to Rice.

Czech lawmakers must still sign off on the agreement, along with a related pact addressing the status of U.S. military personnel stationed at the radar installation (Lachlan Carmichael, Agence France-Presse/Yahoo!News, July 8).

The ruling government lacks the seats in parliament to ensure approval of the deal, meaning it would need support from opposition lawmakers, the Associated Press reported. However, those parties have expressed deep concerns about the radar site and have pushed for a national referendum on the proposal (Associated Press I/PR-inside, July 8).

Schwarzenberg argued, though, that “there are sufficient lawmakers who are sufficiently aware of their responsibility and will go forward in strength during the voting," AFP reported (Carmichael, AFP).

Roughly two-thirds of Czech citizens also object to the base, AP reported.

The early warning radar would work with 10 missile interceptors the Bush administration hopes to deploy in Poland. The Defense Department wants the sites, intended to counter missile threats from Iran or other nations, to begin operations around 2012.

Talks with Poland have proven significantly more difficult than the negotiations with the Czech Republic. Warsaw wants billions of dollars in U.S. aid for military modernization efforts, including missile defenses to help ensure its security once the interceptors are deployed (AP I).

“The fundamental issue that must be resolved is in what way the American installations are going to be protected from an eventual missile attack, and in what way Poland is going to be protected from an eventual ballistic missile attack,” Defense Minister Bogdan Klich told Polish television.

The U.S. interceptors would not provide Poland with defenses against short- or medium-range missiles, Klich said. For that, he said, the nation would need U.S. Patriot systems.

“It is extremely important that Patriots be stationed in Poland,” Klich said. “Poland has no functioning antimissile system right now. We have a good air-defense system that allows us to defend our territory against eventual enemy planes, but we are unfortunately defenseless against missiles.”

Following a meeting yesterday with Rice in Washington, Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski said he believed the two nations could reach a deal before August on placing Patriots in Poland.

Klich expressed less optimism: “All variants are open” (Associated Press II/International Herald Tribune, July 8).

Rice today also could not say whether the two nations would reach agreement following 18 months of talks, Reuters reported. Washington has identified Lithuania as a possible fallback site should negotiations with Warsaw end without a deal.

“We have told them what we can do. … There are still some issues, so I can’t say for certain what the trajectory is, but it was a constructive meeting yesterday,” she said (Arshad Mohammed, Reuters/Yahoo!News, July 8).

Rise indicated she was not likely to stop in Poland for further missile defense diplomacy during her visit to Europe this week, AP reported (Associated Press III/Google News, July 8).
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gL5oQoIDzcGtENsih2jr24j6DDMwD91PIBRG0
 

MC2006

Veteran Member
U.S. Tests Aegis Communications in Middle East

The United States tested communication links between two Aegis missile defense-equipped destroyers over five days beginning last month, United Press International reported yesterday (see GSN, June 6).

The test involving the USS Benfold and the USS Russell, stationed respectively in the Persian Gulf and Mediterranean Sea, was intended to examine the ability of the U.S. Navy’s 5th and 6th fleets to quickly relay information, the Navy Times reported.

The 6th Fleet said in a statement that planning began in 2007 for the “long scheduled” exercise, which began June 28 and ended July 2.

The Navy is building up its capability to trace the course of a potential enemy ballistic missile and then to destroy the weapon. By next year, the service plans to outfit three cruisers and 15 destroyers with Standard Missile 3 interceptors..

The Aegis-equipped destroyers are considered capable of tracking and destroying medium-range missiles fired from the Middle East, including Iran’s Shahab 3. The missile’s range would enable it to reach Israel or Saudi Arabia (Martin Sieff, United Press International, July 7).
http://www.upi.com/Security_Industr...vy_tests_ME_Aegis_systems/UPI-25461215459488/
 

Donner9x

Thread Killer :-)
Hey Vlad, it's missile defense. Did you understand that? Missile defense system.

Not offensive.

DEFENSIVE.

Why would you be afraid of that? Are you planning something there, Vlad - (er, excuse me, I mean Dmitry :rolleyes: ) something that a missile defense system might interfere with?

Hmmmm? :whistle:

+1 what JC Refuge said...
 

Binkerthebear

Veteran Member
Hey Vlad, it's missile defense. Did you understand that? Missile defense system.

Not offensive.

DEFENSIVE.

Why would you be afraid of that? Are you planning something there, Vlad - (er, excuse me, I mean Dmitry :rolleyes: ) something that a missile defense system might interfere with?

Hmmmm? :whistle:

+1 what JC Refuge said...

Yeah, those Russkies hate other countries trying to DEFEND themselves from attack. The world has gone insane; I'm sure some leftists HERE would give some justifiable explanation !
 
There

sure are some DEEP thinkers here.


Missile defense when it is NATO missiles right next to Russia, are there to make sure missiles don't leave Russian airspace. Hence, no ability of Russia to either launch a first strike OR retaliate against a NATO/US first strike.


Since under gw the United States, for the first time in it's history HAS declared that it will initiate First Strike, I think the Russians should be understandably nervous.
 

Wardogs

Inactive
Since under gw the United States, for the first time in it's history HAS declared that it will initiate First Strike, I think the Russians should be understandably nervous.

That Bush again...The cause of every problem of mankind from unending war to post-nasal drip...

And we shouldn't be nervous either?

Russia will strike first. Video!


youtube.com — Pre-emptive nuclear strikes may be used to defend Russia, according to the country ’s Chief of Armed Forces General Staff, Yury Baluevsky. His comments come as tensions remain high between Russia and the U.S. over American plans for a missile defense shield in Europe. (Jan. 2008)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpiHw6EQUv4&eurl=http://digg.com/lbv.php?id=4910234&ord=1
wardogs
 

kozanne

Inactive
This reminds me of a conversation I had this weekend with a friend of mine. He's originally from Iraq (and was held POW in Iran for 8 years) and is convinced that if anything goes down between the US and Iran, the US will be at war with Russia as well. :shr: He was saying we shouldn't be so worried about Iran, but Russia...

Your friend is very right, Breeta.
 

kozanne

Inactive
That Bush again...The cause of every problem of mankind from unending war to post-nasal drip...

And we shouldn't be nervous either?

Russia will strike first. Video!


youtube.com — Pre-emptive nuclear strikes may be used to defend Russia, according to the country ’s Chief of Armed Forces General Staff, Yury Baluevsky. His comments come as tensions remain high between Russia and the U.S. over American plans for a missile defense shield in Europe. (Jan. 2008)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpiHw6EQUv4&eurl=http://digg.com/lbv.php?id=4910234&ord=1
wardogs

So far, DS is the only one on this thread you've had to explain this to, Wardogs......
 
Yes

"youtube.com — Pre-emptive nuclear strikes may be used to defend Russia, according to the country ’s Chief of Armed Forces General Staff, Yury Baluevsky. His comments come as tensions remain high between Russia and the U.S. over American plans for a missile defense shield in Europe. (Jan. 2008)"



Russia changed it's policy of NO FIRST STRIKE long after gw said he would pre-emptively strike any country he considered an enemy.

What the hell would you expect the Russians to do?
 

Wardogs

Inactive
Russia changed it's policy of NO FIRST STRIKE long after gw said he would pre-emptively strike any country he considered an enemy.

So, your position is that Russia never had a first strike scenario in it's repertoire?
How naive.

Just to be clear, Bush never made a threat as direct and specific as the Russian General did against the deployment of a missile shield.
Or as direct as the Chinese threat to nuke "hundreds of American cities" if we defended Taiwan.

Where did the Bush stance originate from?

After 9/11, several scenarios were drawn up and discussed by the Pentagon concerning all aspects of defense, after all, that's what they are payed for.

In January 2002, the Bush Administration issued its Nuclear Posture Review, a Congressionally mandated report on the U.S. nuclear weapons program. For the first time, the 2002 report openly discussed the possible use of nuclear weapons, naming seven countries that could be targets of the American nuclear arsenal: Russia, China, Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Libya and Syria.

On Feb. 22, 2002, John Bolton, a leading Administration official, (before he went to the UN), who at the time ran the arms control and disarmament office at the State Department, gave an interview to the Washington Times, in which he talked about the Bush Administration's intent to use nuclear weapons, under certain circumstances. He candidly told the Times that the world had changed so dramatically on Sept. 11, 2001, that it was no longer unthinkable to use nuclear arms against rogue states thought to possess weapons of mass destruction.

Bolton told the Washington Times that to continue with the doctrine of no first use of nuclear weapons reflected "an unrealistic view of the international situation. The idea that fine theories of deterrence work against everybody, which is implicit in the negative security assurances, has just been disproven by September 11," he said, adding, "What we are attempting to do is create a situation where nobody uses weapons of mass destruction of any kind."

On Sept. 14, 2002, President Bush signed a secret document, National Security Presidential Directive 17, which stated, in part: "The United States will continue to make clear that it reserves the right to respond with overwhelming force—including potentially nuclear weapons—to the use of [weapons of mass destruction] against the United States, our forces abroad, and friends and allies."

On Dec. 11, 2002, the Bush Administration released a declassified version of NSPD-17, under the title "National Strategy to Combat Weapons of Mass Destruction." The reference to the use of nuclear weapons was not included in the declassified version, but instead said that the government would "resort to all of our options."

On Jan. 31, 2003, the Washington Times published a front-page story, revealing the existence of NSPD-17, which warned, "The disclosure of the classified text follows newspaper reports that the planning for a war with Iraq focuses on using nuclear arms not only to defend U.S. forces, but also to pre-empt deeply buried Iraqi facilities that could withstand conventional explosives." Of course this was never backed up by actual documents, but I'm willing to concede that that's an accurate assessment.

On Feb. 19, 2003, the London Guardian was the first newspaper to publish the Jan. 10, 2003 Pentagon minutes of the planning for the Omaha session in August. The Guardian and other major newspapers have received copies of the Dr. Klein memorandum from Greg Mello, who heads a group called the Los Alamos Study Group, which initially received the leak.

So, who leaked secret documents, and what motives did they have? Were they accurate or complete? We'll never know for sure.
Every anti war, anti Bush organization and individual with an axe to grind against Bush jumped on the bandwagon.]

Of course, the hysteria was unfounded, when we went into Iraq, no nukes were used by us.

Again in 2006, Bush re-iterated his stance against terror states.

"President Bush reaffirmed his strike-first policy against terrorists and enemy nations on Thursday and said Iran may pose the biggest challenge for America.

In a 49-page national security report, the president said diplomacy is the U.S. preference in halting the spread of nuclear and other heinous weapons.

"The president believes that we must remember the clearest lesson of Sept. 11: that the United States of America must confront threats before they fully materialize," national security adviser Stephen Hadley said.

"The president's strategy affirms that the doctrine of preemption remains sound and must remain an integral part of our national security strategy," Hadley said. "If necessary, the strategy states, under longstanding principles of self defense, we do not rule out the use of force before attacks occur, even if uncertainty remains as to the time and place of the enemy's attack."

Titled "National Security Strategy," the report summarizes Mr. Bush's plan for protecting America and directing U.S. relations with other nations. It is an updated version of a report the president issued in 2002."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/16/politics/main1409079.shtml

In neither case did Bush threaten to use nukes in a first strike. That scenario was in a leaked secret document that mentioned it as a possibility in "certain circumstances".

Quite different than China's or Russia's direct threats.
wardogs
 

Donner9x

Thread Killer :-)
sure are some DEEP thinkers here.


Missile defense when it is NATO missiles right next to Russia, are there to make sure missiles don't leave Russian airspace. Hence, no ability of Russia to either launch a first strike OR retaliate against a NATO/US first strike.


Since under gw the United States, for the first time in it's history HAS declared that it will initiate First Strike, I think the Russians should be understandably nervous.

Ah, so you're such a deep thinker, that you're going to clear it up for all of us?

I know that you think very highly of yourself, but your knee-jerk reaction to defend Russia is about as shallow as it comes. Although, knowing your general philosophy from your myriad posts, it's not that surprising.

You are either terribly naive or possibly worse, if you think that Russia has had no previous first-strike policy. You blame GW Bush for Russia's stated position? That's what they'd like you to think.

Evil America.

Congratulations "deep thinker".

Me thinks there is someone else here that is not a very deep thinker... :rolleyes:
 

GingerN

Veteran Member
My husband and I are having a disagreement over this whole thing. He says that Russia is not anything to be worried about anymore since it "fell apart". I say that yes, it had some major crackups, but that we should not be so quick to dismiss them. Afterall, what better way to get to an enemy than to make it think you are mortally wounded and without resourses, then strike hard and fast? Is my tinfoil on too tight or am I just showing some sense.
 

jcberean

Contributing Member
My husband and I are having a disagreement over this whole thing. He says that Russia is not anything to be worried about anymore since it "fell apart". I say that yes, it had some major crackups, but that we should not be so quick to dismiss them. Afterall, what better way to get to an enemy than to make it think you are mortally wounded and without resourses, then strike hard and fast? Is my tinfoil on too tight or am I just showing some sense.

Ginger, you are right on target!!! Russia is not our friend!
 

Safecastle

Emergency Essentials Store
As I recall--the U.S. has formally invited Russia to participate and benefit from the missile defense project. They have refused.

Also, if I recall correctly, the Russians recently tested/demonstrated a new generation of ICBM that is impervious to currently emerging missile defense technologies.

Tactical missiles (short to medium range) are what the missile defense program is trying to neutralize. The way the program is drawn up at this point, it can only hope to protect against a very limited missile strike attempt by an enemy. So again--a well-armed military like Russia will easily overwhelm a missile defense system that is deployed.

Russia's objections to this system can only be traced to its desire to have smaller hostile armies or rogue elements remain as dangerous threats to the stability of the western world. That has to be clearly understood.
 

Hermittao

Inactive
CORONA, I just finished reading WAR DAY for the first time. As I was reading the postings I was thinking "Just like WAR DAY." It is interesting that in that book the US wasn't aware that the Russians were concerned enough about the missle shield to actually start a war. It is also interesting that it was because of their overall military weakness that the Russians feared that the deployment of the shield would put them at a disadvantage in any future war with the West.

I'm not saying that that is the case here and now in the real world, but that it is "just interesting".
 
hey there

Thanks for the brief:




In January 2002, the Bush Administration issued its Nuclear Posture Review, a Congressionally mandated report on the U.S. nuclear weapons program. For the first time, the 2002 report openly discussed the possible use of nuclear weapons, naming seven countries that could be targets of the American nuclear arsenal: Russia, China, Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Libya and Syria.

On Feb. 22, 2002, John Bolton, a leading Administration official, (before he went to the UN), who at the time ran the arms control and disarmament office at the State Department, gave an interview to the Washington Times, in which he talked about the Bush Administration's intent to use nuclear weapons, under certain circumstances. He candidly told the Times that the world had changed so dramatically on Sept. 11, 2001, that it was no longer unthinkable to use nuclear arms against rogue states thought to possess weapons of mass destruction.

Bolton told the Washington Times that to continue with the doctrine of no first use of nuclear weapons reflected "an unrealistic view of the international situation. The idea that fine theories of deterrence work against everybody, which is implicit in the negative security assurances, has just been disproven by September 11," he said, adding, "What we are attempting to do is create a situation where nobody uses weapons of mass destruction of any kind."



This was the same time period that all the lies were being fed to US about Iraq and Saddam, yes?

Think maybe they might have had second thoughts about how credible Bolton's words were?
 

L.A.B.

CV19 West Coast 1st Battalion “Maverick’s”
... ... ... So again--a well-armed military like Russia will easily overwhelm a missile defense system that is deployed.

Russia's objections to this system can only be traced to its desire to have smaller hostile armies or rogue elements remain as dangerous threats to the stability of the western world. That has to be clearly understood.

JC Refuge- Ah... The proxy players under the Red Umbrella. Plausible deniability on a short red leash.

It's seven minutes to midnight, do you know where Ukraine's 200 loose nukes are ? Plausible deniability caught Red Handed!
 
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MC2006

Veteran Member
Russian strategic bombers patrol Arctic, Atlantic Oceans

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-07/09/content_8518296.htm


www.chinaview.cn 2008-07-09 17:15:55 Print

MOSCOW, July 9 (Xinhua) -- Four Russian strategic bombers are conducting an aerial patrol over the Arctic Ocean and Atlantic Ocean, Itar-Tass news agency reported Wednesday.

"Four strategic missile carriers Tu-95MS took off from the Ukrainka airbase in the Amur region overnight and are on a 14-hourpatrolling mission over the Arctic Ocean and the Atlantic Ocean," Air Force spokesperson Vladimir Drik was quoted as saying.

"Two fuel tankers Il-78, which flew from the Dyagilevo airbase in Ryazan, performed the air refueling of the missile carriers on Wednesday morning," he said, adding: "NATO fighters are escorting the strategic missile carriers during the patrolling mission."

All flights were being carried out in accordance with international norms, without violating the borders of other countries, Drik said.

Russia resumed strategic bomber patrols over remote areas last year, 15 years after the long-range maneuvers were suspended with the collapse of the former Soviet Union.

Russian strategic bombers have conducted such routine missions over the Arctic Ocean, the Atlantic Ocean, the Black Sea and the Pacific Ocean.
 

homepark

Resist
I am constantly amazed, although not surprised, at some folks insistance in making moral and logical equivalents to those who wish to kill them. It inevitably leads to a "We are no better than they are" argument.

On a philosophical level this is probably true in many cases. We all are human beings. We do have more similarities than differences. However, it is important to note that societies that persevere over the ages, are those which are prepared to defend themselves.

I am not ready to surrender........but that's just me.
 

mcchrystal

Inactive
My husband and I are having a disagreement over this whole thing. He says that Russia is not anything to be worried about anymore since it "fell apart". I say that yes, it had some major crackups, but that we should not be so quick to dismiss them. Afterall, what better way to get to an enemy than to make it think you are mortally wounded and without resourses, then strike hard and fast? Is my tinfoil on too tight or am I just showing some sense.

Ginger,

Google "Topol-M" and ask yourself (and your husband) Why Russia needs
so many new, mobile-launch nukes?

Better yet, Google "J.R. Nyquist" for an answer.

-Steve in Reno
 

Safecastle

Emergency Essentials Store
Speaking of JR Nyquist (and the "plausible deniability strategy)--his most recent column is very appropriate to this thread:

http://financialsense.com/stormwatch/geo/analysis.html

The Enemy’s Scheme of Attack

by J. R. Nyquist

Weekly Column Published: 06.27.2008

A small war can grow into a great war. Superpowers may confront each other. In fact, it’s happening now. The world’s superpowers are suppressing Islamists in Iraq and Chechnya. Adjoining each conflict is another conflict, ready to flare up. On May 6 the Russian press declared: Russia-Georgia ‘close to war’, Tbilisi to blame – Russian NATO envoy. At the same time, Russia has warned the U.S. against preemptively striking Iran. The Americans are presented with a dilemma. If the U.S. doesn’t strike Iran before the November presidential election then Israel will launch a strike. Either way, the Middle East comes unhinged within seven months.

Many pundits assume that Russia and America are natural partners in the War on Terror. If only they could find common ground and work together. This idea is mistaken, however, since Russia’s war against Islamic terror isn’t the same as America’s war. The difference between the two superpowers is most obvious, most glaring when we realize that Russia is not afraid to pass nuclear secrets to Iran. She is not afraid to arm Palestinian terrorists or Latin American terrorists. From the very start, the war in Chechnya was a provocation. The speaker of the Chechen parliament, Dukvakha Abdurakhmanov, has publicly stated that “Russia created Dudaev, Maskhadov and Basayev [the leaders of the Chechen revolt].” He added that Basayev “was a GRU officer in Abkhazia….” He also said that Chechnya had “saved Russia from NATO” and would save Russia in the future. To understand his remark you must understand Russia’s long range policy. The entire Chechen War, with all its death and tragedy, was used by Moscow to justify Russia’s totalitarian revival under Putin. It feeds the vital diversionary rumor that Al Qaeda smuggled nuclear weapons out of Russia via Chechnya. Therefore, when Russian nuclear weapons are detonated in New York and Washington, Moscow will not be blamed. The Chechen alibi is in place.

Earlier this month U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates stated that Russia is modernizing and improving its missile and nuclear weapon technology. Russia is also building a highly professional army, based on mobile concepts and advanced weaponry. Early last year, in testimony before Congress, Gates noted that Russia and China are both “Pursuing sophisticated military modernization programs” that threaten U.S. security.

These are not new developments. They are ongoing developments that government officials, pundits and the media have generally chosen to ignore – with occasional exceptions. One such exception occurred on Aug. 8, 1998 when Stanislav Lunev testified before the Military Research and Development Subcommittee of the House of Representatives. Lunev was formerly a colonel in the GRU (Russian military intelligence) with knowledge of Russian military intentions. As the subcommittee chairman explained, Lunev’s testimony suggests that Moscow “continues to perfect war plans that would assassinate U.S. political and military leaders and sabotage key targets in the United States by using small man-portable nuclear weapons.”

But didn’t the Cold War end with the collapse of the Soviet Union?
According to Lunev’s 1998 testimony, “Russian intelligence activity against this country [America] is much more active than it was in time of the former Soviet Union…. And this activity … is much more dangerous for this country than it was before.” He further warned, “you can accept my information or not. But I can tell you … that before the USSR disintegration, we worked very hard trying to penetrate through this country’s national security secrets. And sometimes we were successful….”

Before the events of 9/11, before the American people knew anything about al Qaeda, Lunev was warning about Kremlin nukes being smuggled into the United States. “According Soviet military plans,” said Lunev, “very well in advance, maybe few months, maybe few weeks … before real war … Russian Special Operations Forces [will] come here to pick up weapons systems, because they will fly here as tourists, businessmen.” Once inside the United States they would locate prepositioned weapons of mass destruction. According to Lunev, “They need to come here with clean hands, only with documents. Maybe some money, that is all. But according to their tasking, in a few hours they need to physically destroy [and] eliminate American military chains of command, President, Supreme Commander-in-Chief, Vice President, Speaker of the House, military commanders, especially to cut [the] head from American military chain of command. They need to destroy communications system in this country and grow panic and chaos in this country before real war would be in place.”

Lunev defected from the GRU. He was familiar with Russian military plans. According to these plans, Russian military teams will come to America, pick up weapon systems, and fulfill their operational mission. When a Congressman tried to account for all this as Russian paranoia, Lunev corrected him: “they are not paranoid; they are really smart people. And they know if their policy will push to the next world war, it would be thermonuclear war…. As a result of this, they constructed huge underground facilities in Moscow, close to Moscow, with communications, underground communications with other places and cities, including Yamantau [Mountain]….”

Russian war preparations have continued through the 1990s up to the present moment. Congressman Owen Pickett of Virginia made the following statement before Lunev’s testimony: “I understand Col. Lunev will share with us his belief that Russian military service and intelligence personnel still regard the United States as the enemy, consider war between our two nations as inevitable, and that they are actively planning for a World War III.”

There is something else out of Russia that confirms Lunev’s testimony. It is the so-called “Surikov document” described by Weldon as “an internal Russian advisory document which also says that ultimately the United States will be Russia’s long-term enemy [and] considers a war with the United States as likely and even inevitable….” This document also refers to a future merging of Russia’s interests with those of various rogue states (i.e., Libya, Iraq, Syria, etc.). One should also consider Russia’s official military doctrine, confirmed in 1999, which emphasizes nuclear first strike “under a broad range of scenarios.”

Some will say this is old news. What everyone seems to miss is the steady consistency of Russian policy. The Kremlin knows where it is going and stays on course. Russian belligerence has become even more apparent since 1998, with the assassination of prominent dissidents like Anna Politkovskaya and Alexander Litvinenko. Through murder, oppression and support of rogue regimes the Kremlin has tipped its hand for all to see. Unfortunately, men are deluded by false concepts and wishful thinking.

The Spanish philosopher, Jose Ortega y Gasset once wrote: “To create a concept is to leave reality behind.” Propaganda is superficially thought to consist in simplistic arguments or slogans to promote a cause. But there are higher, intellectual weapons available. With the aid of false concepts, facts can be misinterpreted. Reality itself can be distorted. The masses can be aroused against their leaders, the patriot can be led into treason, and the proletariat can be mobilized against the bourgeoisie. Just as naval supremacy gives an advantage in time of war, disinformation supremacy provides an even greater advantage – scrambling the enemy’s brain, dividing and conquering the various groups within the enemy camp.

False concepts pave the way to false facts which our liberals and conservatives readily take to heart. Bush and America are vilified, even by Americans. Communism is spreading throughout Latin America. The Third World is beating a path to Moscow and Beijing. Someone’s propaganda is succeeding. Look around you today. Is the information you’ve entertained leading you to positions consistent with national unity and final victory? Or have you been led to positions that make you vulnerable to the enemy’s scheme of attack?
 

rhughe13

Heart of Dixie
Hey wait a minute, I thought Reagan took care of this problem years ago. Why is Russia being a threat even coming up again?:whistle:
 
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