WAR Don't bomb Iran, Bush warns Israel

Desperado

Membership Revoked
Maybe Bush understands the people will not put up with another war or $10 a gallon gas.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_...07-02_dont_bomb_iran_bush_warns_israel-1.html

Don't bomb Iran, Bush warns Israel

BY RICHARD SISK
DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU

Wednesday, July 2nd 2008, 9:47 PM

WASHINGTON - President Bush and the top U.S. military commander warned Israel Wednesday against bombing Iran, suggesting the U.S. doesn't want to get involved in a third war.

"This is a very unstable part of the world and I don't need it to be more unstable," Adm. Mike Mullen, the Joint Chiefs chairman, said at a briefing.

Bush said, "I have made it clear to all parties [including Israel] that the first option is diplomacy," in getting Iran to stop enriching uranium that could be used for a nuclear weapon.

The warnings came after the disclosure that Israel had conducted air operations over the Mediterranean that could simulate a strike on Iran.


Then the Pentagon chimes in with:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=5294698&page=1
Pentagon Warns Against Israeli Attack on Iran


Joint Chiefs Chairman Adm. Mike Mullen: 'A Third Front ... Would Be Extremely Stressful'
By JONATHAN KARL
July 2, 2008

Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Adm. Mike Mullen, who was in Israel over the weekend, issued a strong warning today about the dangers of a military attack on Iran.


At a Pentagon press conference, Mullen was asked, "How concerned are you ... that Israel may undertake a unilateral strike against Iran by the end of the year?"

"My strong preference, here, is to handle all of this diplomatically with the other powers of governments, ours and many others, as opposed to any kind of strike occurring," he answered. "This is a very unstable part of the world. And I don't need it to be more unstable."

Mullen refused to talk specifically about what was said in his talks with the Israelis, but he made it clear wants to avoid military confrontation.

"I've been pretty clear before that from the United States' perspective, the United States' military perspective in particular, that opening up a third front right now would be extremely stressful on us," he said. "That doesn't mean we don't have capacity or reserve. But that would really be very challenging and also the consequences of that sometimes are very difficult to predict."

Mullen said there needs to be better "dialogue" on the Iranian nuclear issue. Asked what he meant, Mullen responded, "When I talk about dialogue -- actually, I would say very broadly across the entirety of our government and their government.

"But, specifically, that would be -- need to be led, obviously, politically and diplomatically," he said. "And if it then resulted in military-to-military dialogue, I think that part of it certainly could add to a better understanding of each other.

"We haven't had much of a dialogue with the Iranians for a long time," Mullen said. "It takes two people to want to have a dialogue, not just the desire on one part."

Mullen's views here seem to be at odds with the Bush administration's policy, which is that there will be no direct dialogue between the United States and Iran on the nuclear issue unless Iran agrees to suspend its nuclear
 

skip1

Membership Revoked
If Iran gets contol of the "Oil" or we cut & run from the Middle East what do you think the price will be then????




BTW you take Bush's & the Pentagon's comments out of context.
 

Thunderbird

Veteran Member
Dammit which way is it??? Bush the war monger will bomb Iran any second now he has fired the admiral that opposed it. Bush warns agianst Israeli action.
What a crock, lots of misinformation.
 

Desperado

Membership Revoked
If Iran gets contol of the "Oil" or we cut & run from the Middle East what do you think the price will be then????

If you take the chance of war away from the speculators My guess around $2.50 a gallon.

BTW you take Bush's & the Pentagon's comments out of context.
How is that Skippy? "A free Iraq will help secure Israel." -- President George W. Bush
Is that out of Context too?
 

CygnusXI

Inactive
Israel needs to do what's in it's best interest.

Their Whole country is at stake.
America's forces are only at stake because we chose to be in the region.

Bomb now, be bombed later.
It's just a matter of time.
 

rodeorector

Global Moderator
This could be disinformation, just like the Israeli comment the other day that they had absolutely no plans of attacking Iran. Or, it could be true. However, in the past, Israel never talks about an attack and they don't give two hoots what anyone else thinks when they do it. They never finish a job because when Dubya starts rattling the purse strings they back down.

By the way, Bush could care less if gas is $10/gal.
 

RJC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The US and Co. will attack Iran in due time, and Israel will defend itself. However, for Israel to arbitrary attack Iran is disruptive to the US war plans and the variants. War with Iran will come when the US has it’s circumstances at the point it wants.
 

Hiding Bear

Inactive
If you had watched the press conference Wednesday, you would have concluded that "Bush does not warn Israel" - since he mostly changed the subject when asked about warning Israel.
 
I

think the Bush would just love to have another war and more blood. I'm beginning to think that he just can't get the military to cooperate anymore. The question now is this the military acting on their own or bigger bosses than gw are ordering them to hinder military action? I think gw is being torn between what he really wants to do and what he either can't or isn't being allowed to do. As in someone bigger is seeing the risk to the USA and judging it not worth the price - at this time.



What's this?

"Israel needs to do what's in it's best interest.

Their Whole country is at stake.
America's forces are only at stake because we chose to be in the region."



America's forces are only at stake? Excuse me, you mean all those ships and planes and tanks and men and women and construction workers and diplomats and all that other AMERICAN stuff that will be put at risk, maybe by the tens of thousands or dozens of ships, if Isreal does what it "needs" to do?

And if "Israel" does what it "needs" to do, in your mind at least, it might plunge this country into a war it doesn't need nor want?

And you think that OUR Forces are only at risk so so what?

How about in that case we tell Israel, well, do what you want., and we tell the Iranians, hey guys, it's between you two, we're sitting this one out.
 
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Donner9x

Thread Killer :-)
I think the Bush would just love to have another war and more blood.

And when I read statements like that from you, it convinces me that my opinion of you has been right all along. You should be ignored, and your opinions and observations are worth very little.

If you actually, genuinely believe the statement that you just made, that

"Bush would love to have another war and more blood",

then it tells much about how warped and out of touch with reality that you are.

It's certainly valid to disagree with Bush's policy regarding the war, his handling of the war, and many of his other policies. (Many of which I disagree with BTW, including how this administration has mishandled the post-Saddam portion of this war, and their lack of communication skills - and their illegal alien policy, spending money like a bunch of Democrats, and on and on.)

But to make the statement you made is beyond repulsive; it is wrong, it's absolute bullshit, and I think you know it.

But if you really believe it, then you are one twisted little person...:shk:
 
America's forces are only at stake? Excuse me, you mean all those ships and planes and tanks and men and women and construction workers and diplomats and all that other AMERICAN stuff that will be put at risk, maybe by the tens of thousands or dozens of ships, if Isreal does what it "needs" to do?

And if "Israel" does what it "needs" to do, in your mind at least, it might plunge this country into a war it doesn't need nor want?

And you think that OUR Forces are only at risk so so what?

How about in that case we tell Israel, well, do what you want., and we tell the Iranians, hey guys, it's between you two, we're sitting this one out.

Wow DS, you really misunderstood what Cygnus XI was saying. You totally took that out of context.

Granted, I am not him...and maybe I am wrong but I understood his statement to mean that our forces are at risk only because we choose to be in the region. I don't believe for one second he was diminishing the value of our forces or saying they are the only ones at risk.
 
KK

I think I did understand what he was saying. But when people say things like that I don't think they understand the terrible cost that this country could end up paying in a war with Iran, and for years, and most likely like Gate's warning to the US congressmen that I read this week,

that our grandchildren would be fighting them in our streets a generation or more from now.


What I am saying, is that if Israel decides IN THEIR BEST INTEREST to launch an attack on Iran, regardless of consequence to THIS COUNTRY, then it is our best interest to make clear IT IS NOT OUR FIGHT, it is not in our best interest, and we will NOT be dragged into a new wider M.E. conflagration.

A lot of people somehow think that Israel should just go ahead and attack - damn the torpedoes. Well, WE are the ones right next to Iran with our troops in a still very volitile country and it is OUR ships floating in the Gulf and it is OUR troops strung out all over Afghanistan with 70% of our supply lines being trucked through Pakistan.

If Israel decides to go ahead and attack, I hope the US and our military make it clear to the Iranians there will not be an American component in either the attack or in the retaliation after Israel is hit back so OUR interests in the M.E., including things like the Saudi oil fields are not put at risk due to Israeli actions.

The Constitution gave Congress the power to declare war because Congress is supposed to be the voice of the People. The American people don't want yet another war.

I understand what Cyg was saying. I am saying let the American people decide if they want a war with Iran, and not get dragged into one due to Israeli decisions.
 

homepark

Resist
I heard a while back that Israel was on its own wrt this. We will have to deal with the consequences. In my opinion, Iran poses an existential threat to Israel, and they have been none too subtle about it.
 

TECH32

Inactive
Maybe Bush understands the people will not put up with another war or $10 a gallon gas.

Will you make up your mind already? First it's "Israel controls our Government" and now it's "We're telling Israel what to do". Can't have it both ways.

And, if you believe as you claim, we should have NO say in what Israel does or does not do, correct? Aren't you the one who goes around saying we should mind our own business? If Israel bombing Iran in retaliation for the decades of terrorist attacks they've suffered at the hands of Iranian proxies means $10/gal gas, then you'll just have to suck it up and pay it like everyone else. Right?
 

Sebastian

Sebastian
If Iran gets contol of the "Oil" or we cut & run from the Middle East what do you think the price will be then????




BTW you take Bush's & the Pentagon's comments out of context.

If we cut and run?

Well Iraq's oil would come on line and Iran's oil would have the benifit of western expertise without he sanctions.

There would be no premium against the possibility of the Straits being closed to oil tankers.

You see the Arab's and the Persian's have to sell there oil to someone and we are market numero uno.

It would help if we had a currency that was worth something but that is another problem.

So I'm guessing if we cut and run within a year maybe two maybe three oil would be about $30 a barrel maybe less. After all we are talking about the second most common liquid on the planet.

You see Gulf War one and two were for the purpose of taking oil off the market and supporting the petro dollar and petro dollar loans.

Some who hate the Constitution and limited government who have no idea what patriotism means in the American sense think otherwise. Seem to think hating dusky folk and worshiping symbols like flag lapel pins equals patriotism.

American patriotism takes work, its about ideas, not flags or real estate.
 

von Koehler

** In Timeout **
After re-reading the initial post, perhaps a distinction should be made what Our Beloved Dear Decider's position on Israeli aggression is
(he seems to be OK with it, as long as it's "a last resort") and what Adm. Mike Mullen, the Joint Chairman said.

The Chairman is viewing the potential war from the calculus of military action, weighing costs and requirements. Iran would well be a disaster.

IIRC, months ago there was a warning thread about how the brass would give public warnings of their disapproval for a attack against Iran.

Is his warning a public clue what's being arranged in the White House?

The American public should given the facts about Iran and whether or not it is a direct threat to the USA. Ron Paul is 100% right; the proper course is for Congress to declare war and not be sucked into yet another disaster by the whim of one man.

If Israel wants to start a Middle Eastern war, well ultimately that's up to them. However, the USA should not be part of this illegal and immoral action.

Flavius Aetius
 

TECH32

Inactive
If Israel wants to start a Middle Eastern war, well ultimately that's up to them.

Yeah, but Israel wouldn't be starting this war. War has been waged against them for decades. All they would do by hitting Iran is let them know that there is a price to pay for decades of aggression and terrorist attacks.
 
No

it would be a little more complex than that,


"All they would do by hitting Iran is let them know that there is a price to pay for decades of aggression and terrorist attacks."


And if it happens in the next few months it WILL involve the US into an Israeli war.
 

TECH32

Inactive
it would be a little more complex than that,


"All they would do by hitting Iran is let them know that there is a price to pay for decades of aggression and terrorist attacks."


And if it happens in the next few months it WILL involve the US into an Israeli war.

So we DO share common goals with Israel. Ater all, if it weren't in OUR interests, we wouldn't do it. If Israel retaliates against Iran for their decades of attacks and threats of annihilation, WE have a genuine and compelling interest in ensuring that our supply of oil isn't disrupted. I guess all those claims that our politicians do Israeli bidding is just so much smoke and mirrors...
 

skip1

Membership Revoked
You Guys Still Don''t Get It

If we cut and run?

Well Iraq's oil would come on line and Iran's oil would have the benifit of western expertise without he sanctions.

There would be no premium against the possibility of the Straits being closed to oil tankers.

You see the Arab's and the Persian's have to sell there oil to someone and we are market numero uno.

It would help if we had a currency that was worth something but that is another problem.

So I'm guessing if we cut and run within a year maybe two maybe three oil would be about $30 a barrel maybe less. After all we are talking about the second most common liquid on the planet.

You see Gulf War one and two were for the purpose of taking oil off the market and supporting the petro dollar and petro dollar loans.

Some who hate the Constitution and limited government who have no idea what patriotism means in the American sense think otherwise. Seem to think hating dusky folk and worshiping symbols like flag lapel pins equals patriotism.

American patriotism takes work, its about ideas, not flags or real estate.

We are fighting the Jihad. Oil is the economic weapon to bring the infidel to their knees.
 
"...Will you make up your mind already? First it's "Israel controls our Government" and now it's "We're telling Israel what to do". Can't have it both ways..." TECH32


Sure they can - and they'll try it every chance they get. Some just can't quite ever sink enough teeth into everything concerning Israel and The Joos.


"...Israel needs to do what's in it's best interest....Their Whole country is at stake...." CygnusXI

Exactly - they're facing a classic existential threat from an intractable foe that attacks them verbally openly and frequently. There's little reason to doubt that the whackjobs in Iran fully intend to carry out those threats as soon as they possibly can.

Sad that some with limited reasoning power can't grasp this.
 

Reborn

Seeking Aslan's Country
Well, whatever happens, it looks like all things are getting ready:

Missile-defense exercise held in Middle East

By Andrew Scutro
Friday Jul 4, 2008

NORFOLK, Va. — In an unprecedented move, the Navy recently tested the communications network supporting its Aegis ballistic missile defense system across the Middle East. The test comes as top military commanders are expressing a hardened stance against Iran’s intransigence.

The upgraded Aegis systems aboard Navy destroyers and cruisers can track ballistic missiles and intercept them with ship-launched SM-3 missiles.

Tensions have flared recently over Iran’s intent to attain nuclear arms and its persistent threats to destroy Israel, which has indicated it could defend itself with a pre-emptive strike.

The intensified sparring — with the consequences of an additional Middle East war in mind — has prompted U.S. military commanders to speak up.

On July 2, Vice Adm. Kevin Cosgriff, the 5th Fleet commander based in Bahrain, told a conference of naval leaders in the Persian Gulf that maritime security in the area remains an “essential condition” to global stability.

While not speaking specifically about the BMD exercise, he said naval operations in the area reflect the high stakes involved. “Conducting these operations in and around the Arabian Gulf sends a signal of security within the region that is commensurate with the area’s global importance,” he said.

The BMD exercise, which took place from June 28 through July 2, involved the destroyer Benfold operating in the Persian Gulf and the destroyer Russell operating in the eastern Mediterranean.

According to 6th Fleet in Naples, Italy, the exercise has been “long scheduled,” with planning initiated last year. On top of the regional hostility, oil shipping through the gulf remains vulnerable, with rising energy prices generating widespread anxiety in the U.S. economy.

Cosgriff was quoted in news reports from the Gulf Naval Commanders’ Conference in Abu Dhabi saying that Iran will not be permitted to choke off the Strait of Hormuz, through which millions of barrels of oil pass on tanker ships every day. “We will not allow Iran to close [the Strait of Hormuz],” Cosgriff said.

Command presence

Cosgriff spoke just days before relinquishing command of 5th Fleet to Rear Adm. Bill Gortney. Gortney recently led the Harry S. Truman Carrier Strike Group on a seven-month deployment that included a rotation in the Persian Gulf. He arrives following an Israeli air force exercise in June that has been characterized as a rehearsal for a strike on suspected nuclear facilities in Iran.

Top military commanders also have been in the region recently.

Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Adm. Mike Mullen and Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Gary Roughead have visited Israel in the past few weeks, where they met with military leadership.

At a Pentagon news conference July 2, Mullen told reporters that he believes Iran is a “destabilizing factor” in the Middle East and remains “on a path to get to nuclear weapons, and I think that’s something that needs to be deterred.”

He emphasized his preference for a diplomatic solution and would not speculate on what actions the Israeli military may take. “We certainly talked about Iran and the degree to which the Israeli military views the Iranian regime as a threat to their security and to the security of the broader Middle East,” he said of his meetings in Israel. “I won’t discuss the details or the concerns they expressed, nor will I comment one way or any other about the speculation surrounding Israeli intentions. Those are matters for the Israeli military and the Israeli government to address.”

Mullen said another shooting war would be “extremely stressful” on the U.S. military and that an Israeli strike would lead to further trouble. “This is a very unstable part of the world, and I don’t need it to be more unstable,” he said.

The Navy has been refining its seagoing ballistic missile defense system, both its ability to track the trajectory of a ballistic missile and to intercept it. There have been nine successful strikes of target ballistic missiles by Navy ships in the Pacific.

According to the Missile Defense Agency, by 2009, three cruisers and 15 destroyers will be capable of intercepting ballistic missiles. The recent exercise in the Middle East was described as a communications exercise to test the rapid exchange of information between the two fleets.

“During the exercise, the ships will work with one another in detecting, tracking, sharing information and engaging a simulated ballistic missile by sharing data via a number of paths,” according to information from 6th Fleet.

It’s not known whether the scenario involved such a simulated missile being shot from a Persian Gulf nation such as Iran toward a Mediterranean nation such as Israel, or vice versa.

Michael O’Hanlon, a senior fellow for foreign policy and a military expert at the Brookings Institution, said there may be symbolic values to staging such an exercise in the region, given the antagonism among Iran, Israel and the U.S. But more importantly, the exercise will test the military communications both ashore and afloat throughout the region. “You want to learn how you coordinate the data in real time,” he said.

Bob Work, a senior defense analyst at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, said the tests show the fleet continues to refine its ballistic missile defense tactics.

“The great value of Navy Aegis/BMD ships is that they can position themselves anywhere in the world along likely missile threat axes to maximize the probability of a successful interception,” he said. “Exercises in the Mediterranean and Persian Gulf demonstrate that these ships are equally capable operating off of North Korea, near Iran, or near any other potential adversary.”

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2008/0...ctest_071408w/
 

Reborn

Seeking Aslan's Country
And then there is this from today's news:

Israel Tests New Missile Defense System – Success

by Hana Levi Julian

(IsraelNN.com) 7/6/08 Israel's “Iron Dome” missile defense system passed its test Sunday morning with flying colors, according to security officials, who say the system will also be able to defend Israel’s civilians against mortar attacks as well.

The “Iron Dome” works by intercepting medium-range Katyusha rockets as well as the shorter, homemade Kassam rockets and mortars fired by Gaza terrorists, using a small kinetic missile interceptor called the “Tamir.”

The system, when tested a year and a half ago, was found to be incapable of defending against the shorter-range Kassams rockets, which can sometimes reach their target within 20 seconds.

It was previously believed the system would be ineffective against mortar attacks for the same reason since mortar shells hit targets within 10 seconds .

Developed under contract by Israel Military Industry’s Rafael Advanced Defense Systems, the $300 million system which was tested at the Ramon Air Force Base in southern Israel will reportedly be ready for operation by 2010.

It is meant to become part of a multi-layered defense system aimed at protecting Israeli Gaza Belt residents from shelling by Gaza terrorists, and residents in northern Israel from rocket attacks fired by Hizbullah terrorists in southern Lebanon.

The system might also be used to protect the rest of Israel from longer range attacks launched against the Jewish State from Syria or Iran. Israel has asked the United States to foot the bill for approximately 65 percent of the development costs for the project.

Palestinian Authority terrorists have launched more than 4,000 Kassam rockets at southern Israel since the Disengagement from Gaza in August 2005.

Residents in the north suffered a similar number of rocket attacks, with more than 4,000 Katyusha missiles fired by Hizbullah terrorists at Israeli communities as far south as Afula during the 2006 Second Lebanon War.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/126742
 
well

I'd say if we pay for it we own it.

Israel sells several billion dollars worth of armorments every year. $3.5 or 4.5 billion last year I think.


It will be amazing if missile defense has reached the point where it could defend against thousands of missiles.


"Israel has asked the United States to foot the bill for approximately 65 percent of the development costs for the project."
 
well

here is the new "buzzword" everyone is being trained to accept and believe without critical thinking:


"In my opinion, Iran poses an existential threat to Israel"



Well, Pakistan, a very volitile and violent country poses an existential threat to India. And Pakistan has several nukes.

India, also a very volitile and violent country poses an existential threat to Pakistan. India has nukes.

They have both long fought against each other and have had several wars.


North Korea is nuclear armed now and very much poses an existential threat to South Korea, and indeed to Japan also.



For half a century and now Russia very much poses an existential threat to the United States,

and the United States poses an existential threat to Russia, China, and indeed any country that seriously pisses US off.


The truth now though is that neither India or Pakistan are likely to raise military operations against each other to the level where Nukes become likely.


Why? Because of the existential threat . The same reason the United States AND Russia always backed from from MAD.


Is Iran developing nuclear weapons? I don't know, but it is highly possible that somewhere down the line they would like to, it is also possible that they did set their program aside back in 2003. Have they already obtained nukes or tactical nukes from other countries? Possible but no where proven by any means.


Would Iran be comitting suicide by threatening or attacking Israel to such a level as to actually threaten it's existence? Yes, it could, but I really only see this happening AFTER a first strike on it by Israel or the United States.

If they DO obtain "the bomb" I think the same reality would fall into place as has happened since their first and last use in Japan. As long as both "main" enemies had the "bomb", everyone would walk a little softer even if the bluster continued.
 
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knepper

Veteran Member
Is Iran developing nuclear weapons? I don't know

How could you not know, DS, unless you are choosing not to know. Iran is not even trying to hide it.

It's true that many other nations have obtained the bomb without starting a nuclear holocaust. But none of them were ruled by a certifiable lunatic like Ahmadinejad. None of them had a leader that has made public statements promising to use the bomb to wipe another nation off the face of the earth. And none of them has supported terrorists to the extent that Iran has, crazed men who have made it plain by their actions that they will use any tool at their disposal, including nuclear weapons, to kill as many infidels as possible.

Considering the statements that crazy Ahmad has made, no one can blame Israel for taking out Iran's nuclear program in a preemptive strike. Bush knows perfectly well they are going to do this, regardless of what he says. His statements are not intended to dissuade them from what they are clearly going to do, but are for domestic purposes.

If Iran gets the bomb and then proceeds to start WWIII, gasoline at $10/gal is going to seem like the good old days.
 
well

Knepper, I'm old enough to remember some Soviet leaders who promised to wipe US off the face of the earth, and THEY certainly had a lot more means than Iran.

Do I think Iran was developing a bomb? Yes. Have they stopped? All of our intelligence agencies said so, and there have been 11(?) secret visits by the nuclear watchdog to Iran and they haven't found evidence of bomb making.

Do I think that gw and Israel openly "contemplating" using tactical nukes against Iran more or less likely to convince the Iranians they need a nuke of their own? More likely by far. Think the Iranians are idiots?


Might Iran still be working on a bomb? Possible.


Alahawhat's his name is NOT the Supreme Dictator of Iran. He is far more of a figurehead. He does NOT have the power of a Saddam Hussien or an Adolph Hitler.


Now, please provide an exact quote where HE said HE was going to use nuclear weapons against Israel?



There is NO evidence at all that Iran will have a bomb in 6 months or even 3 years from now (unless they have bought some, which is possible but not proven).


If Isreal attacks Iran before gw leaves office and drags US into an un-necessary M.E. conflagration when the ONLY pressing need is to do it before gw leaves office hell yeah I'll blame them.
 
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colonel holman

Administrator
_______________
unavoidable and terminal

The jihad is an economic war and they are winning, just like we won the economic portion of the cold war, just like the mujhadin won against the soviets. They are bleeding us dry on several economic fronts, just as they have planned.

The final chapter is the totally unavoidable action of Israel launching air attacks against Iran's nuke sites, as there is no choice for Israel. That is why Iran is so boldly bragging and egging it on as it will bring the jihad to its final stage of Israel's actual destruction and US economic destruction, while preserving Iran's new best oil customers for Iran's future success, all at much higher profits. Iran wants and needs to be attacked to move the world to that stage.
 

Richard

TB Fanatic
I am of the opinion the ME is such a filthy ****hole that who gives a ****ing toss about the various sub human filth that infests it
 
jeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

it drives me nuts.


"They are bleeding us dry on several economic fronts, just as they have planned"


Why can't some of you accept personal responsibility? The ragheads have not brought the United States of America to the financial armageddon that we now face.

Idiots in Washington that refused to balance a budget, and Americans taking out loans that they couldn't afford and running credit cards up to the max on things they didn't need and couldn't afford has brought this country to it's knees.

Need an enemy to blame when it is OUR spending habits and a Federal Reserve pumping out trillions of made up dollars over two decades?

Look in a mirror.
 

colonel holman

Administrator
_______________
two different topics

dragonslayer... excellent point, but another topic. We have burned our own economy and the jihad is exploiting that. I agree with our own faults, which is why I have worked hard to be debt-free and free of the US economic risks and traps. No credit cards, no car loans, no other loans for toys, quadruple mortgage payments to retire the home mortgage in less than a year. Cant blame me for your rant.
 
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