Texas judge's 'concern'

William

Veteran Member
Texas judge's 'concern' - Ed Firmage - See links at bottom of article

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_9237484

Texas Judge Barbara Walther is concerned about your children. If you're an ultraorthodox Jew, a conservative Muslim, a Jehovah's Witness, a Seventh-day Adventist, a traditional Hindu, or a member of any of a hundred other minority religions in this country, you should be concerned that Barbara Walther is concerned.

Why? Because Walther thinks that membership in a religious group alone is grounds for ripping your children, even your nursing babies, from your arms and giving them to proper parents. Her justification: Belonging to your religion may - may - lead to abuse.

Walther has said her crusade is not about being FLDS. Hogwash. It's all about being FLDS. On that basis alone Texas justifies its raid into the FLDS compound and its forceful breakup of hundreds of families, possibly forever.

I can understand Walther. She honestly comes by her notions of preemptive war and disregard for the Constitution. She is, after all, from Texas. What I don't understand is why Texas hasn't been flooded by amicus briefs on behalf of the FLDS from every religious group in America concerned that they might be the next target of "concern" like Walther's.

Ed Firmage Jr.
Salt Lake City

Links to articles by Ed Firmage:
http://www.4thefamily.us/polygamy_monogamy_monotheism

http://www.4thefamily.us/christianity_inc


:dstrs:
 

Micah68

Inactive
Some of us ARE concerned - I am emailing all of my family down there and also writing letters to editors begging people to vote her out in November (yes, she is an elected official!).

I love the comment at the bottom of that about rounding up all of the children of CPS workers and investigating for abuse. I am sure there is some, since there is some everywhere.
 
The author is, after all, from Utah.

Pardon me while I take a barf break...

'Rat

Desert Rat;

I am from Texas and live with-in forty miles of Eldorado. And what I see going on south of here disgusts me! I'll tell you and anyone else who cares to listen - Those peoples' Constitutional Rights are being $][it Upon! By Texas..............
 

SassyinAZ

Inactive
That's one thing about opinions, everyone has one, another op-ed, sourced as the Boston Globe but reprinted in Deseret News:

http://deseretnews.com/article/content/mobile/1,5620,700226277,00.html?printView=true

A religious lifestyle or a pedophile ring?
By Ellen Goodman

Published: May 16, 2008

BOSTON — During the Vietnam War there was a phrase that came to symbolize the entire misbegotten adventure: "It became necessary to destroy the village in order to save it." It was said at first with sincerity, then repeated with irony, and finally with despair.

I have heard similar thoughts in the weeks since Texas authorities invaded a ranch in Eldorado and rounded up hundreds of children from the polygamous sect of the Fundamentalist LDS Church. Did they traumatize the children in order to protect them? Did they shatter their lives to rescue them?

The invasion came after a tip from a 16-year-old who called herself a victim of sexual abuse. The tip may turn out to be a hoax, but the practices of the sect are well-known.

In the world of the FLDS, "spiritual marriage" between older men and underage girls — what the law defines as rape — is given the stamp of religious approval. Of 53 girls believed to be between 14 and 17, more than 30 have children or are pregnant, including one who gave birth to her second child in custody. Among the boys, too, there is suspicion of widespread physical abuse. Indeed, many teenage boys are routinely banished to preserve the odds of polygamy.

Nevertheless the story of children taken from parents, of families wrenched apart, has produced enormous concern and worry in the past weeks. Is this a rescue operation or a state-sponsored attack on parents? Should the state enforce a set of values or tolerate "alternative lifestyles" and religions?

These questions themselves say something about our own cultural moment. Who, after all, doesn't do a double take when hearing that these "endangered children" were never exposed to the Internet or television or processed food? The girls in their prairie dresses who are raised for assigned men have never text messaged or eaten Froot Loops or seen "Hannah Montana." The children's requests for a bread-making machine and prayer time have led to some ironic comments about exactly which culture is protecting children.

More to the point is the concern about separating children from parents. Every agency balances the risks of leaving children in a dangerous setting and the trauma of removing them. But cases are generally weighed one at a time. What's different about the FLDS case is that it was a wholesale roundup of all the children of a whole community.

This makes many, like Jane Spinak, a Columbia Law professor who has represented children in foster care, uneasy. "We may not like their lifestyle," she says. "We may not condone the practice of multiple women living together with a man, but it's not for the court to decide lifestyles." Spinak remembers when children were removed from biracial families, let alone gay families. "Lots of people live lives we don't think are good for their children, but we don't take the children away." Indeed, this resident of New York archly reminded me that two governors have admitted multiple partners in the last months without having their children removed.

Nevertheless, what do we make of an entire sect that has sexual abuse at its very heart? That believes plural "marriages" between older men and underage women are not an aberration but a pathway to heaven?

Nobody can prosecute the FLDS for what they believe, says Marci Hamilton, author of "God vs. the Gavel." "They can stay together and believe what they want into eternity. What they can't do is illegal action."

She compares their community to a crack house. "If you go into a drug den in a burnt-out rowhouse and all the adults are drug addicts, how can you leave the children there?" Hamilton calls this sect a "conspiracy of adults to commit systematic child sex abuse."

I understand the ambivalence toward this dramatic story. The uprooting of distraught children from pained parents strikes a primal core. And we are aware that many state foster care systems are flawed enough to amount to a second kind of abuse. But surely the call to understand this sect as just another unique corner of multicultural America is relativism run amok.

Individual hearings will begin next week. I hope that the children and mothers will tell the truth rather than follow the admonition to "keep sweet." I hope mothers will choose their children over obedience to their patriarchs.

But in the end, what we have on that ranch in Eldorado is not a lifestyle. It's a pedophile ring. If we cannot rescue children from that, we've already destroyed their village.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ellen Goodman's e-mail address is ellengoodman@globe.com
 

William

Veteran Member
What does Texas church raid say about us?

What does Texas church raid say about us? (check out the stats at the end of this_


http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2008/05/what-does-texas.html

Before one applauds the roundup at the ‘FLDS Corral,’ we should first look at what’s taking place in the nation outside the Eldorado compound — where anti-cult stereotypes can cause government to forget about some religions’ pesky First Amendment protections.

By Mary Zeiss Stange

The dust is more or less settling around the largest child custody case in Texas history. DNA samples and fingerprints having duly been taken, the 463 children removed by Texas Child Protective Services (CPS) from Warren Jeffs's Yearning for Zion (YFZ) Ranch, near Eldorado, have been trundled off to foster care throughout the state. A few nursing mothers are in group home situations with their infants. The rest of the mothers, for whom supervised visitation with their children is being arranged by CPS, await custody hearings to be held by early June.

(Photo - Showdown in Texas. Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints members walk toward journalists on the Yearning for Zion ranch in Eldorado last month. They talked about their 11-day experience in a San Angelo, Texas, shelter / Tony Gutierrez, AP)

Any charges of sexual abuse that ultimately emerge from the ongoing investigation will, of course, deserve the most vigorous prosecution. Meanwhile, the case raises some thorny questions, both about how we as a society regard religious "others," and about the role anti-cult stereotypes play in public decision-making. These questions center on the treatment of those mothers and children.

Legal experts are divided on the legitimacy of what Barbara Walther, the presiding judge in the case, off-handedly referred to as the "cattle call" that removed those mothers and children from their home on April 3. The closed federal warrant authorizing the raid relied heavily on phone calls, subsequently alleged to be a hoax, from 16-year-old "Sarah." Flora Jessop, formerly a member of a Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints (FLDS) community in Utah and now an anti-polygamy activist in Phoenix, had told Texas law enforcement that she had received similar calls from a "Sarah." Arguably, the raid was spurred more by negative stereotypes about FLDS and members' practice of polygamy than by a thorough investigation of evidence.

The Mt. Carmel parallel

It isn't the first time this has happened to a religious group in Texas that diverged from the norm on the issue of plural marriage. The YFZ Ranch raid resembled, in some respects, what happened 15 years ago to David Koresh's Branch Davidians in Waco. Then, as in the FLDS situation, alarmed and alarming reports from disaffected former sect members fueled media "exposs" which, in turn, whipped up popular antagonism.

In 1992, CPS had investigated Mt. Carmel and found no indications of child abuse. Yet the following year, after a 51-day standoff, then-attorney general Janet Reno authorized the "dynamic entry" and use of tear gas against the Davidians out of concern, she said, for the children's welfare. The outcome was lethal: 80 Davidians, including Koresh, died in the resulting conflagration on April 19, 1993. When women didn't escape with their children, the FBI blamed the children's deaths on their mothers' failed "maternal instinct."

A similar dynamic was at work in the raid on YFZ Ranch, although it was, as a spokesperson for the Texas Public Safety Department phrased it, more "diplomatic" than at Waco. "Not a shot was fired."

Appealing to anti-cult stereotypes, Time magazine quoted Eldorado Mayor John Nikolauk's description of the women being herded off the so-called compound looking like "zombies, with no expression in their eyes." This description doesn't square with what we subsequently saw of these women on the evening news. Perhaps their glazed expressions had something to do with being rounded up at gunpoint by SWAT teams, backed up by an armored personnel carrier and K9 dog units.

According to Marci Hamilton of the Cardozo Law School, the raid was justified because "There is nothing in the First Amendment that says that any religious group has the right to exist, no matter what they do."

This is true enough. Criminal prosecution is certainly appropriate when, in the name of religion, a clear violation of the law has occurred — as happened in Jeffs' conviction for facilitating the rape of a minor last year. (Koresh was likely guilty of statutory rape. We will never know for sure.) But the First Amendment does not sanction government repression of religious activities about which no clear harm has yet been proven — quite the contrary, in fact.

The FLDS women maintain that no child abuse occurred, that their relationships are spiritual and modeled on being "clean and pure," that they were at YFZ Ranch by choice. All of this is in line with FLDS's theological claim that it is merely adhering to the original Mormon tenets over which the sect split from the larger church (Latter Day Saints/LDS), when it abandoned polygamy somewhat over a century ago.

However, once again the authorities seem to suspect a failure of maternal instinct. A "tip sheet" issued to CPS workers dealing with the case — one source for which is Carolyn Jessop, who is hawking a book about her "escape" from FLDS — warns, among other things, that FLDS mothers may exhibit "learned and enforced helplessness," and a limited cultural mentality. As to the apparent hoax that spurred the raid, CPS spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner says that once authorities were convinced that abuse had occurred, the phone caller's actual existence became immaterial. "Sarah," Meisner explains, is a metaphor for young women subjected to abuse in the compound. "What we did," Meisner told CNN, "was warranted and in the best interest of the children. This is not about religion — this is about keeping children safe from abuse."

A flurry of press releases from CPS notwithstanding, the precise extent of the alleged abuse nonetheless remains unclear.

What gives me pause

What is clear, however, is that there is no objective justification for brushing off the mothers as a bunch of prairie-style Stepford wives, let alone for leaping to the conclusion that mounting an armed raid to take their children away was indeed proper to do on the strength of a metaphor grounded in a religious stereotype.

The feminist in me cringes at rising to the defense of a group so patently patriarchal as FLDS. But it isn't much of a stretch to defend the religious rights of groups with whom one mostly agrees, is it? I, personally, find the kind of spirituality practiced on the YFZ Ranch deeply troubling. I find the pop-romanticization of polygamy in HBO's Big Love equally problematic.

But, both as a feminist and as a scholar of religion, I also recognize that we as a society can applaud the YFZ raid and its potentially dire consequences for hundreds of women and their children, only if we blind ourselves to some other salient facts:

* Across the USA and across class, race, ethnic and religious divides, adolescent girls are becoming more sexually active, at ever-earlier ages. A recently released government study found that one in four teenage girls in this country has a sexually transmitted infection.

* Monogamy may be our societal "ideal," but given the American divorce rate, "serial polygamy" is closer to the norm — often culminating in precisely the pattern practiced by FLDS, whereby the older a man gets, the younger his newest wife is, the pattern originally advocated by Joseph Smith.

* Historians acknowledge a pragmatic link between the revelation that led the Mormon Church to renounce polygamy, and Utah statehood. On this ground, in religious terms, FLDS members are as legitimate in claiming to be "true" followers of Joseph Smith as are, say, those traditionalist Catholics who reject the authority of the post-Vatican II Roman Catholic Church.

* Gay marriage advocates have long pointed to parallels between anti-gay marriage and anti-polygamy laws: Both offer privileges to heterosexual monogamy.

* Meanwhile, polygamy and/or adolescent sexual intercourse are socially and religiously sanctioned in a variety of cultural contexts around the world, for example, in some Islamic communities, among the Maasai of Africa and in Papua New Guinea.

Maybe, rather than focusing on the family arrangements of an isolated Texas religious sect, we should be asking ourselves what was wrong with this picture: Even as CPS was herding the last of the FLDS girls off to distant foster care facilities late last month, American Internet users were so eager to see Annie Liebovitz's revealing Vanity Fair photos of 15-year-old Miley Cyrus that the magazine's website crashed.

Mary Zeiss Stange is a professor of Women's Studies and Religion at Skidmore College in Saratoga Springs, N.Y., and a member of USA TODAY's board of contributors.
 

NoName

Veteran Member
Desert Rat;

I am from Texas and live with-in forty miles of Eldorado. And what I see going on south of here disgusts me! I'll tell you and anyone else who cares to listen - Those peoples' Constitutional Rights are being $][it Upon! By Texas..............

I live in San Antonio and see what tripe CPS is touting about down here and you're absolutely right FD..thing is Texans are letting Texas do this to her own people... Might be time to drag out the old Republic of Texas Declaration and dust it off.
 

Micah68

Inactive
What does Texas church raid say about us? (check out the stats at the end of this_


http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2008/05/what-does-texas.html

These are the stats that still just boggle my mind since reading them the other day:

in Texas in 2000:

20,752 teen girls between the ages of 13-17 gave birth

1 of every 30 teen girls 13-17 got pregnant
1 of every 38 teen girls 13-17 gave birth

Every 10 hours a 14 year old got pregnant

every 3 hours a 15 year old got pregnant

Every 1 hour a 16 year old got pregnant

every 50 minutes a 17 year old got pregnant

10% of all medicaid paid for births were to girls ages 13-17


I don't know how the teen pregnancy rate has changed since 2000, but those figures are enough to give you nightmares.
 
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