US Citizenship to be checked during hurricane evacuations

Perpetuity

Inactive
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/metro/5784300.html
May 15, 2008, 11:34PM
U.S. citizenship to be checked in event of a storm
Agents to watch those in the Valley who board buses to flee a hurricane

By LYNN BREZOSKY
San Antonio Express-News

BROWNSVILLE — Ending speculation about the fate of the Rio Grande Valley's undocumented immigrants during a hurricane evacuation, U.S. Customs and Border Protection has confirmed it will check the citizenship both of people boarding buses to leave the Valley and at inland traffic checkpoints.

Those determined to be in the country illegally will be taken to detention centers away from the hurricane's path and later processed for deportation.

"It's business as usual at the checkpoints," said Dan Doty, spokesman for CBP's Rio Grande Valley sector. "We'll still check everybody."

Locals responded with predictions of humanitarian disaster.

"We can't wait to see the helicopter photos of us sitting on roofs," said the Rev. Mike Seifert, a priest and activist based in a colonia outside Brownsville. The many area families with one or more undocumented members would just refuse to evacuate, he said.

"Imagine," Seifert said. "We're all in an uproar, everybody's in an enormous hurry, there's just a narrow window of opportunity and you get to the place with the buses and the Border Patrol's checking people. You're not going to go."

In the disastrous wake of hurricanes Katrina and Rita in 2005, officials in the Valley have pondered the politics of mass evacuation, illegal immigration and the checkpoints that filter northbound traffic every day.

After Hurricane Rita threatened the Houston area, clogging highways for miles, drying up gas pumps and creating chaos, emergency management officials set out to improve planning.

State Director of Homeland Security Steve McCraw in 2006 said the highway checkpoints should be closed if the Valley needed to evacuate. U.S. 77 parallels the coast and could be underwater once hurricane rains or flooding hit. Even if all the lanes on U.S. 281 are dedicated for northbound traffic, that's the main route for a population that now tops a million people.

Krista Piferrer, a spokeswoman for Gov. Rick Perry, said Thursday the state's stand on the issue had not changed.

"The governor's office prefers that the Border Patrol not use checkpoints during times of evacuation for obvious reasons," she said. "It will slow down traffic and create problems. ... During times of emergency our priority No. 1 is safety and we continue to hold on to the same belief."

At a recent discussion with reporters, Hidalgo County Judge J.D. Salinas said he didn't expect the Border Patrol to publicize a policy on the checkpoints for fear of inviting a free-for-all for illegal traffic.

The unofficial word, he said, was that agents recognized they'd have to be more lax amid a disaster.

But Tuesday, a reporter photographing a mock evacuation for the Rio Grande Guardian Web site saw Border Patrol agents rehearsing citizenship document checks of people boarding buses.

CBP's Doty confirmed this was the planned procedure and said those determined to be undocumented immigrants would be taken to separate shelters, likely detention centers in Laredo or San Antonio. He said the highway checkpoints would stay open.

Document checks are not mandatory at the checkpoints; it's up to an agent to assess travelers and determine whether to ask for papers. Doty said that even with the checks, 120,000 people could be evacuated within 80 hours.

"Our agents, they do it so often, they know what to look for," he said.

Doty could not say what would happen if children in a vehicle were citizens but parents were not, or if everybody but an elderly grandparent had a green card.

"We try to keep families together, but I can't put a U.S. citizen in a detention center," he said.

Cameron County Judge Carlos Cascos said locals would have to work with federal directives, but said document checks would hamper an evacuation.
 

Chartreuse

Yellow Solar Sun
As much as I oppose illegal immigration, I still think this is a horrible idea.

People should not have to choose between evacuating from a deadly storm and being hauled off to a detention center. Period.
 

AR15ER

Inactive
As much as I oppose illegal immigration, I still think this is a horrible idea.

People should not have to choose between evacuating from a deadly storm and being hauled off to a detention center. Period.
 
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Firebird

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I can see pretty nasty bottlenecks with thousands and thousands of people trying to evacuate and having to stop at checkpoints to show their papers. What if they forgot their ID's in the rush to evacuate? What a mess this could be.
 

lisa

Veteran Member
It's finally happened, Chartreuse and I actually agree on something!

If a hurricane hits..folks will die because of this decision. (Yes, it's their own choice and their own fault but during a natural disaster a truce could be called for the sake of lives)
 

MikeD

Inactive
Why did that sound alot more like what the gov of Myanmar would have done than something you would expect here in the states?
 

Amazed

Does too have a life!
It won't happen. They'll start and then see the obvious - they are holding up legal residents from fleeing the storm. The liability would be unimaginable. But of course they can't seem to figure that out ahead of time. :rolleyes:
 

Chartreuse

Yellow Solar Sun
"If you can't do the time, don't do the crime"

JIm

If illegal immigrants remain in an area that is being evacuated, what do you think is going to happen after the storm passes? You're going to have WAY more people than you would have otherwise in need of assistance and rescue, and the lives of our emergency workers are going to be all the more at risk. They're not going to ask for papers before plucking people from rooftops or rescuing them from rushing floodwaters or houses that have been crushed by trees. And legal citizens who couldn't or wouldn't evacuate for whatever reason are also going to find that they are waiting a lot longer for help.
 
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blackjeep

The end times are here.
These people amaze me.

To expedite matters, it would seem prudent to check citizenship after they arrive at their destination than to hold everyone up, by needless processing, when trying to get out. They would catch them either way.

I, too, shudder at the "your papers, please" aspect of this, but we need to send 'em packing any way we can.
 

Fulltimer

Inactive
"What is your nationality?"

Doesn't take that long to answer "American".

I have never been held up more than a minute at a checkpoint. The BP agents usually just wave me through without asking anything.

The unofficial word, he said, was that agents recognized they'd have to be more lax amid a disaster.
.
.
.
Document checks are not mandatory at the checkpoints; it's up to an agent to assess travelers and determine whether to ask for papers. Doty said that even with the checks, 120,000 people could be evacuated within 80 hours.

"Our agents, they do it so often, they know what to look for," he said.

IIRC during the last evacuation from South Texas the traffic was moving so slowly that folks were getting out of their cars and walking across the highway for snacks at convenience stores and returning without any delay in the traffic flow:D



don;)
 

blackjeep

The end times are here.
"What is your nationality?"

Doesn't take that long to answer "American".

I have never been held up more than a minute at a checkpoint. The BP agents usually just wave me through without asking anything.



IIRC during the last evacuation from South Texas the traffic was moving so slowly that folks were getting out of their cars and walking across the highway for snacks at convenience stores and returning without any delay in the traffic flow:D



don;)
Getting out of Houston was snarled beyond belief, but in the South Texas/Brownsville area (where they would be doing the screening) the population isn't anywhere near that of Houston, where the massive traffic jams took place.
 

Windy Ridge

Veteran Member
Some of these evacuees are not going to have ID's. What are they going to do? Deport thousands of American citizens who didn't have time to grab their papers?
Unfortunately, I think our government is stupid enough to try it.

Windy Ridge
 

mbabulldog

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Deport thousands of American citizens who didn't have time to grab their papers?
Unfortunately, I think our government is stupid enough to try it.


for the sake of arguement, where are they going to deport them to? If you don't have your papers, you can't prove your American, but you also can't prove WHERE you're from?

So, if you're blond with blue eyes, back to Germany with you? See where I'm going with this?
 

Amaryllis

Inactive
I would just evacuate as quickly as possible then worry about citizenship status. But after the fact, if illegals were found to have taken advantage of a bad situation, I'd think they'd deserve much harsher punishment.

IOW, in my town there are obviously laws against stealing, looting, etc. If it happens during an emergency, the penalities are stiffer.
 

DustMusher

Inactive
As usual the 'usless news' has made a botch of reporting how evacs are done......

I went through a class on the disaster/evac plan in Feb. the only tracking of any evacuees is of those using public transportation. If you use your own vehicles, you load up, and head north. end of story.

If you are using public evac means (buses, etc) then the family units are given armbands and tracked by barcode and computer from disembacrcation to shelter point.

I am not sure about checking 'nationality' but I do know that for many people in the valley - on BOTH sides of the boder, the surest and safest route of evac is through the US and many of the valley populace from Mexico is expected to come north through the US.

Using BP is part of the utilization of all law enforcement and military, like the State Guard who all have assignments during an evac.

Dm
 

Firebird

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The one time we were evacuated by "armed troops" they wouldn't let us take a thing. Good luck getting through checkpoint charlie with nothing to ID yourself but a birthmark.
 

fruit loop

Inactive
What will actually happen:

People's "papers" are lost or destroyed in the disaster, or they forget them in their panic.

Or the person "looks" (and even may be) Hispanic, but does not have their papers due to the aforementioned scenario....or the relief worker "thinks" that they "look" or "talk" like an illegal alien.

Victim gets thrown into a detention center or perhaps even deported, when they're really a citizen. It may take months to prove their real identity and citizenship, and in the meantime they're either incarcerated or trying to fend for themselves in a foreign country.

FLDS mean anything here, folks? Their papers were confiscated by the authorities, or deemed of "suspicious validity", or discounted due to appearance.

Don't think it won't happen. It already has.
 

Firebird

Has No Life - Lives on TB
What will actually happen:

People's "papers" are lost or destroyed in the disaster, or they forget them in their panic.

Or the person "looks" (and even may be) Hispanic, but does not have their papers due to the aforementioned scenario....or the relief worker "thinks" that they "look" or "talk" like an illegal alien.

Victim gets thrown into a detention center or perhaps even deported, when they're really a citizen. It may take months to prove their real identity and citizenship, and in the meantime they're either incarcerated or trying to fend for themselves in a foreign country.

FLDS mean anything here, folks? Their papers were confiscated by the authorities, or deemed of "suspicious validity", or discounted due to appearance.

Don't think it won't happen. It already has.

I completely agree.
 

NoName

Veteran Member
As much as I oppose illegal immigration, I still think this is a horrible idea.

People should not have to choose between evacuating from a deadly storm and being hauled off to a detention center. Period.

I whole heartedly agree, they should be required to return to/remain in their home country or shot on site as a danger impeeding the safe and speedy evacuation of our citizens
 

NoName

Veteran Member
for the sake of arguement, where are they going to deport them to? If you don't have your papers, you can't prove your American, but you also can't prove WHERE you're from?

So, if you're blond with blue eyes, back to Germany with you? See where I'm going with this?

Good point, how many of us know our Name, birthdate, SSAN, address, Drivers License number by heart...if you don't know it, the friendly relocation specialists can't look it up in their computer..so you get deported back to last known/suspected port of entry...Good reason to read your cards.
 

Barry Natchitoches

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Checking status is a good idea -- but it should be done at the Red Cross shelter or FEMA Service Center when they go to get displacement services-- NOT on the road while people are trying to get out of harms way.
 
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