House Approves New Property Seizure Law

Wise Owl

Deceased
MODS: I did a search on the Bill number and the title of the article but did not find it. If this has been posted, please delete.....

House Approves New Property Seizure Law
Published on Saturday, May 10, 2008.


http://www.blacklistednews.com/view.asp?ID=6524

Source: Rogue Government - Lee Rogers

The criminals in the federal government are now trying to legalize the seizure of computers and other property under the guise of strengthening intellectual property laws. HR 4279 or the Prioritizing Resources and Organization for Intellectual Property Act of 2008 which was recently passed by the U.S. House of Representatives, will give the government draconian powers to do just this. This legislation gives the government the power to seize property that facilitates the violation of intellectual property laws. The legislation also mandates the formation of a formal Intellectual Property Enforcement Division within the office of the Deputy Attorney General to enforce this madness. In addition, a new office called the Office of the United States Intellectual Property Enforcement Representative is created within the Executive Office of the President. If you boil it down to brass tax, this legislation allows the U.S. government to lawfully seize your computer if it has one unauthorized mp3 file on its hard drive. It also provides the authorization for the creation of offices within the executive branch to enforce a law that is impossible to enforce.

Below is taken from section 202 of HR 4279 that gives the federal government the authorization to seize property that may have been used to facilitate an intellectual property violation. The language in this section indicates that a violation would include downloading a single unauthorized mp3 file on to a computer. d) Unauthorized Recording of Motion Pictures- Section 2319B(b) of title 18, United States Code, is amended to read as follows:
`(b) Forfeiture and Destruction; Restitution-
`(1) CIVIL FORFEITURE PROCEEDINGS- (A) The following property is subject to forfeiture to the United States:
`(i) Any copies of a motion picture or other audiovisual work protected under title 17 that are made without the authorization of the copyright owner.
`(ii) Any property constituting or derived from any proceeds obtained directly or indirectly as a result of a violation of subsection (a).

`(iii) Any property used, or intended to be used, to commit or facilitate the commission of a violation of subsection (a) that is owned or predominantly controlled by the violator or by a person conspiring with or aiding and abetting the violator in committing the violation, except that property is subject to forfeiture under this clause only if the Government establishes that there was a substantial connection between the property and the violation of subsection (a).
This is the 1980s equivalent of the government being given the legal authority to seize cassette recorders if they were used in recording a song off of the radio. Under this legislation, downloading even a single mp3 file unauthorized by the copyright owner will give the federal government the power to take your computer. There is no way that the federal government can enforce this. In fact, it is insane that the U.S. House of Representatives is more concerned about keeping the record and movie industry happy by passing this legislation than they are with real issues. Incredibly, this bill was passed by a vote of 410-11. Two of the dissenting voters included Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul.
John Conyers a fascist and anti-Constitutionalist member of the U.S. House of Representatives who originally introduced this bill made the following statements describing the purpose of the legislation. His statements were republished in a Billboard Magazine report.
(1) prioritize intellectual property protection to the highest level of our government;
(2) make changes to IP law to enhance the ability of IP owners to effectively enforce their rights;
(3) make it easier to criminally prosecute repeat offenders;
(4) increase penalties for IP violations that endanger public health and safety.
Basically speaking, Conyers believes that downloading illegal mp3 and movie files endanger public health and safety. Conyers is either an insane individual that belongs in a mental institution for making such a ridiculous statement or he and everybody else who voted for this bill is in the back pockets of the RIAA, the MPAA and the rest of the music and movie industry. Common sense would dictate that such a law is unenforceable and should have not been seriously entertained. This is just another sign that this country is run by a bunch of fascists who are trying to find as many ways to undermine civil liberties under the guise of enforcing the law. What is really ridiculous about this, is the fact that the Constitution which is the supreme law of the land is violated by these fascist tyrants in Congress every single day of the week. If they were actually serious about enforcing the law, why are they not following the Constitution? Why do they reject it?
Maybe if the movie and music industry stopped putting out horrible content, their sales would be a little better. It seems as if they are trying to blame people who download unauthorized mp3 and movie files for their shortcomings in business. Perhaps they should do what smaller independent music and film production companies have done and embrace the technological revolution instead of stifling it by trying to push this anti-American legislation down our throats.
It is understandable to go after people who are illegally profiting off of selling material that isn’t their own but there really isn’t a need for government involvement. The record industry should sue those people if they believe that there are groups or individuals who are unfairly profiting off of their work. A court can decide if the claims they present are valid. However, to give powers to an already corrupt government to seize private property from people who are violating copyright laws by merely having downloaded mp3 files or movie files on their computer is unenforceable and beyond the scope of government. Section 301 of the bill establishes the Office of the United States Intellectual Property Enforcement Representative and section 501 of the bill establishes the Intellectual Property Enforcement Division within the Department of Justice under the office of the Deputy Attorney General. These particular offices will be established to serve as the enforcement arm for this legislation. How many more powers is this corrupt legislature going to give to a renegade executive branch that is already engaging in perpetual war, setting up a police state, authorizing torture, destroying national sovereignty and other horrors? The federal government is full of petty bureaucrats and tyrants that can’t do anything right to begin with, and the U.S. House of Representatives voted overwhelmingly to expand government again through this legislation. With 410 of these tyrants voting for this legislation, it is doubtful that we will be successful in defeating this bill in the U.S Senate or if it goes to the dictator in chief.

:ld:
 

mbo

Membership Revoked
Conyers is the same communist who will get his REPARATIONS bill signed into law when Obama is elected POTUS.




















.
 

OddOne

< Yes, I do look like that.
And stuff like THIS, boys and girls, is why I write data destruction software and sell it to anyone/everyone.

EVERYONE with a computer has something illegal on it. EVERYONE. Whether it's a MP3 file you downloaded or a program you borrowed from a friend or some porn ad that was pushed to your browser thanks to clicking the wrong link, if someone wants to find incriminating data on a computer they can, and odds are you don't know about it. And all it takes is one illegal whatever to give corporate legal teams all they need to make the rest of your adult life a miserable experience. (Example: The RIAA is trying to acquire the ability to seize homes for restitution in music-piracy cases.)

oO
 

les_stockton

Inactive
Being someone that worked at a company that developed software and had our products willfully stolen over and over and over, and we couldn't stop it; I'm for the law. You see one side, but what you don't see if the guys on the other side that are being ripped off.
When you have a car and other property being used to violate the law (such as selling drugs), it makes sense that they'd be seized. This is done all the time now.
So this law really is nothing new. If you have property that you're using to steal other property, it makes sense to have it seized.
I'm all for it. My little company basically couldn't afford to pay me a salary because of the thieves out there. I wish they'd been caught and punished this way. If anything, the law has been too easy on the thieves in the past.
 

Wise Owl

Deceased
oO, wish I still had my copy of your program. Lost it during the last crash....sigh.
I have another one but it is not as good as yours.

Your's rocks!

Edited to add, we do not download music, nor do we copy from sites info that is under copywrite law.....pretty law abiding here. I doubt there is any porn on this machine either unless it is in the junk mail and that gets nuked.....
 

Troke

Deceased
Inasmuch I have only a faint idea what an MP3 file is, that ignorance allows me total flexibility in commenting. But I gather it is owned by somebody and others are copying it without paying for it.

It seems to me that one would have little problem with the Feds if one did not download MP3 files without benefit of clergy (or whatever).

So what is the problem? We got a bunch of people here who are looking for a free lunch off of somebody else's work? Odd behavior for a bunch who are fanatic about private property.

I doubt that there are more than .00001% of the computers out there that accidentaly downloaded that file. So innocence is not much of a problem IMO.

BTW, I got no sympathy for the music industry. I watched my nephew, a talent good enough to tour with Yanni, get totally screwed by said industry. Luckily he got out from under, but it took much effort and time.
 

Wise Owl

Deceased
troke, people record music at home then upload it to the net. Then they share it with others without the permission of the people who make the music cd or video. It's call piracy....
But this could be construed to include a lot of different things. Anything with a copywrite on it.....if the owner of the copywrite complains and KNOWS someone is stealing their stuff.

People are and have been copying my husband's original fishing fly patterns for years now. He gave up on the warnings on the website and just published a few patterns in a book for them complete with the recipe for tying them.......he figures most of them just want them to fish with and can't afford to buy them so......

but then we are not big companies who like to sue......and need to make millions yearly......

But that is what this is about.
 

TECH32

Inactive
Shouldn't the punishment fit the crime? I mean taking thousands of $$$ of equipment for having a couple of dollars worth of downloaded music on your PC?

Isn't that like taking your car because you didn't put your seatbelt on?
 

OddOne

< Yes, I do look like that.
Being someone that worked at a company that developed software and had our products willfully stolen over and over and over, and we couldn't stop it; I'm for the law. You see one side, but what you don't see if the guys on the other side that are being ripped off.
When you have a car and other property being used to violate the law (such as selling drugs), it makes sense that they'd be seized. This is done all the time now.
So this law really is nothing new. If you have property that you're using to steal other property, it makes sense to have it seized.
I'm all for it. My little company basically couldn't afford to pay me a salary because of the thieves out there. I wish they'd been caught and punished this way. If anything, the law has been too easy on the thieves in the past.

I am also a software developer. I'm also part of a very small operation. My software doesn't get stolen, in part because I'm dug into a niche like a tick into a old hound's hide but also because nobody's cracked the product (yet). Yes, it is possible to make theft-resistant software and not be draconian about it.

If your co. couldn't stop product piracy I'd wonder what the co. was trying and how the coders were approaching the problem. If your dev team didn't approach antipiracy measures from the mindset of how you'd break the protection you were doomed from the outset.

And I'm partially in favor of this and partially against - in favor because it'd discourage casual piracy among low-level-of-concern users but against because (1) it'll never stop piracy among anyone with a modicum of savvy and (2) will cause all manner of unintended consequence. I betcha the first people this will be used on will be low-skill-level users that can do little more than turn on a comp and surf the web and happened to download a few things just because they were interesting, and heavy-duty pirates will not be at all impacted.

So, I see both sides, and I see yours just as clearly as you do, but have a slightly more pragmatic take on whether and how well this would work. :D

oO
 

OddOne

< Yes, I do look like that.
Shouldn't the punishment fit the crime? I mean taking thousands of $$$ of equipment for having a couple of dollars worth of downloaded music on your PC?

Isn't that like taking your car because you didn't put your seatbelt on?

Yes, and that's why I think this is in part a stupid idea. It won't significantly impact IP theft (read: piracy) and will only realistically be used to flog parents whose precious snowflakes are regular visitors to torrent sites.

If you're gonna go after pirates, go after the real ones. "Casual" piracy isn't the problem IP owners try to make it into and you can convert a casual piracy into a legitimate sale.

oO
 

NC Susan

Deceased
So Troke, you grandson comes to visit, downloads a three minute song from the internet, and then the music Nazis come and take your house as payment and punishment!
Legally, because a bunch of politicians with large pots of PAC money decided its OK to do so, instead of thinking past their own ill-gotten gains and power coruptions.


Meanwhile, life goes on in the gangbangers underworld uninterupted.


.
 

Troke

Deceased
"...So Troke, you grandson comes to visit, downloads a three minute song from the internet, and then the music Nazis come and take your house as payment and punishment! .."

So my grandson comes, filches three CD's from the local store and...?

Maybe he needs to be taught that downloading such stuff is a no-no.
 

Bad Hand

Veteran Member
I wouldn't suggest that you come to my house and try to take anything unless you you are tired of living.
 

fredkc

Retired Class Clown
So my grandson comes, filches three CD's from the local store and...?

Maybe he needs to be taught that downloading such stuff is a no-no.

Except what's being suggested here is more like removing his hand for said theft. Sound familiar? That'll learn'im!

There is no way that the federal government can enforce this. In fact, it is insane that the U.S. House of Representatives is more concerned about keeping the record and movie industry happy by passing this legislation than they are with real issues.
Oh I wouldn't say that. after all...

Microsoft device helps police pluck evidence from cyberscene of crime.
Microsoft has developed a small plug-in device that investigators can use to quickly extract forensic data from computers that may have been used in crimes.

The COFEE, which stands for Computer Online Forensic Evidence Extractor, is a USB "thumb drive" that was quietly distributed to a handful of law-enforcement agencies last June. Microsoft General Counsel Brad Smith described its use to the 350 law-enforcement experts attending a company conference Monday.

The device contains 150 commands that can dramatically cut the time it takes to gather digital evidence, which is becoming more important in real-world crime, as well as cybercrime. It can decrypt passwords and analyze a computer's Internet activity, as well as data stored in the computer.

t also eliminates the need to seize a computer itself, which typically involves disconnecting from a network, turning off the power and potentially losing data. Instead, the investigator can scan for evidence on site.

More than 2,000 officers in 15 countries, including Poland, the Philippines, Germany, New Zealand and the United States, are using the device, which Microsoft provides free.

"These are things that we invest substantial resources in, but not from the perspective of selling to make money," Smith said in an interview. "We're doing this to help ensure that the Internet stays safe." [Source]

Gosh, I feel safer already!
 

spinnerholic

Inactive
I don't understand this at all, mainly because I've never downloaded either music or a movie. On dial up, it takes 7 forevers just to dl a 3 minute video.

Does this mean that the cops can just turn up at the door and demand to check my computer for pirated stuff just because I have a computer? Just what is needed as probably cause for the cops to come?

I'd be 10 times PO'ed if this happened to me.
 

NC Susan

Deceased
This wont stop with music.

It will continue with AP news articles, copywrited pictures, dissenting opinions, anti-politician webpages, racial, religious, or sexual discussions, and anything else the brownshirts no longer approve of.

We will loose more than just property or homes.
We loose our opinions and right to speach when We loose the ability to communicate openly and globally either verbally or via internet.

dot.gov's First step in erasing the First Amendments with this one folks!!
 

Troke

Deceased
"...Does this mean that the cops can just turn up at the door and demand to check my computer for pirated stuff just because I have a computer? Just what is needed as probably cause for the cops to come?.."

A tip from a 'reliable source'.
 

BassMan

Veteran Member
This wont stop with music.

It will continue with AP news articles, copywrited pictures, dissenting opinions, anti-politician webpages, racial, religious, or sexual discussions, and anything else the brownshirts no longer approve of.

We will loose more than just property or homes.
We loose our opinions and right to speach when We loose the ability to communicate openly and globally either verbally or via internet.

dot.gov's First step in erasing the First Amendments with this one folks!!

That was my thought. Based on the "harmonization" of laws going-on (US, Europe, Canada, etc.), and the crackdowns on freedom-of-speech, I suspect that TPTB have the internet in their "sights".

As I understand it, the plan is to replace the internet with "Internet 2", which is based on IP6 and new/incompatible routers. It will be much faster, but the small independent (freedom-loving) websites will be shut-out.
 

OddOne

< Yes, I do look like that.
I wouldn't suggest that you come to my house and try to take anything unless you you are tired of living.

The problem with this mindset is that while it might be a romantic notion, it's untenable in practical application. Shooting a cop will only bring down everything the department can bring to bear, all with the goal of capturing or outright killing the copkiller, and it won't mean a tinker's damn to them whether the cop that died was in the wrong.



This wont stop with music.

No, it won't. The advantage of overly broad laws is that you can creatively interpret and enforce them. And the law of unintended consequences involving legislation will not be denied...

oO
 

NC Susan

Deceased
[FONT=Verdana,Arial]from Bassman:.............As I understand it, the plan is to replace the internet with "Internet 2", which is based on IP6 and new/incompatible routers. It will be much faster, but the small independent (freedom-loving) websites will be shut-out.........

http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/inde...94ee-411c-8340-59ca8f237094&Month=5&Year=2008
[/FONT]

May 08, 2008
spacer.gif
NEW REPORT CITES GROWING THREAT OF HOMEGROWN TERROR
Internet Acts as Catalyst to Radicalization; Counter Messaging Strategy Needed
WASHINGTON – Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee Chairman Joe Lieberman, ID-Conn., and Ranking Member Susan Collins, R-Me., warned Thursday that the threat of homegrown terrorism is on the rise, aided by the Internet’s capacity to spread the core recruitment and training message of violent Islamist terrorist groups.

At a morning press conference to release the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee staff report, “Violent Islamist Extremism, The Internet, and the Homegrown Terrorist Threat,” the Senators said that as the threat of homegrown terrorism evolves, so too should the government’s response, which must include coordinated and comprehensive strategic communications and outreach efforts.

“The long term goal of the strategy must be to isolate and discredit the ideology as a cause worthy of support,” Lieberman and Collins said in a joint statement. “Federal, state and local officials, as well as Muslin American community and religious leaders and other private sector actors must all play a prominent role in discrediting the terrorist message.”

The report found that as the Internet breaks down physical borders and cultural barriers, permitting easy access to violent extremist ideology, the greater the likelihood that more disaffected people will buy into the global violent Islamist movement.
“The growing use of the Internet to identify and connect with networks throughout the world offers opportunities to build relationships and gain expertise that previously were available only in overseas training camps,” Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell has testified. “It is likely that such independent groups will use information on destructive tactics available on the Internet to boost their own capabilities.”
The report concluded that the federal government must address key questions such as: what, if any, new laws, resources, and tactics should be implemented to prevent the spread of violent extremist ideology in the United States; how should a counter communications strategy be fashioned and what roles should the government and community and religious leaders play; what is the purpose of current outreach efforts and how can those efforts be improved; and how should local officials and local law enforcement be involved.

The report is part of an ongoing investigation into violent Islamist extremism and homegrown terrorism conducted by the Committee that has included six hearings over the course of nearly two years. Law enforcement witnesses have testified to a growing danger from homegrown terrorism. But the Senators observed that, beyond classified intelligence and law enforcement programs, the federal government has provided “relatively uncoordinated outreach to American-Muslim communities and fragmented communications strategies.”

Last fall, Defense Secretary Robert Gates bluntly observed, “We are miserable at communicating to the rest of the world what we are about as a society and a culture, about freedom and democracy, about our policies and our goals. It is just plain embarrassing that Al Qaeda is better at communicating its message on the Internet than America.”
In charting the growing threat of homegrown terrorism, the report details how terrorist groups use the Internet to enlist, indoctrinate, and train followers, increase support for their movement, raise money, and plan and execute attacks, allowing “leaders of the movement to talk directly to those who may be vulnerable to the influences of the core terrorist enlistment message without having the ideology filtered through intermediaries, like community leaders or media outlets.”

“The spark for the radicalization process is the core enlistment message that the leaders of the global violent Islamist terrorist movement use to attract followers,” the report said. And the “enlistment message” is at the center of the violent extremist Internet propaganda campaign.

“Today, al-Qaeda manages a multi-tiered online media operation in which a number of production units associated with al-Qaeda or allied violent Islamist organizations produce content consistent with the core terrorist enlistment message,” the report said. “Once content is created… (by the production units) it is then funneled through a clearinghouse before it is posted on the Internet… The propaganda regularly produced by this process finds its way to literally thousands of violent Islamist websites across the Internet… This multitude of websites has become an effective distribution system for the core enlistment message and other content.”

The report found that al-Qaeda and other supporters of violent Islamist ideology have also stepped up their efforts to appeal to English speaking audiences, especially Americans, including specific ethnic, religious, and racial populations in the United States.

“The United States must stay ahead of this threat by pursuing a national strategy to counter the influence of the ideology,” the report said. “This is a critical challenge to the homeland security of the United States, one the U.S. government must work quickly and aggressively to overcome. The safety of the American people depends on it.”

The report can be found here [FONT=Verdana,Arial][/FONT]
 
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