Water as Fuel conversion plans - anyone know anything about this?

Does anyone know anything about Water as fuel conversion plans for cars and generators? I found this link and thought I would post it and find out if anyone knows about this.


http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/feb2/carplans_doc.htm

Others have tried this as well, and if you could get a large enough supply of H2 out of it, then yes, you could run a larger engine. I have played with a lot of different devices and there are some that work fairly well. None however that I have played with would actually run a car without needing several of the devices running full tilt. Most of them would (and do) work good for either offline H2 or hydoxyl production that you can store, or use in a lower volume application (like heating or a stove to cook with). They are VERY good at heating the ammonia for an absorption style freezer or fridge (10 watts versus 300-600 watts of resistive heater elements).

Another good place to look:
http://waterpoweredcar.com/
and their sister site:
http://hydrogengarage.com/home.html

You can get parts or even a kit through the second link, and it will generate either hydrogen or hydroxyl, but don't bet on running your normal sized car from one of these devices directly. Remember, there is no such thing as a free lunch, these devices may only take a few dozen watts, but they won't produce enough hydrogen to run even a 50 horsepower engine directly (without storing what is needed for the run, first). Any engine will quickly use up what one of these devices can create in real time. A 50 horsepower engine, at 100% efficiency, would need a minimum of 37,400 watts of energy to get running at rated power. And that is just for a 50 HP engine (like an older VW bug engine). Once you get into the range where the big V8s are, it takes much more energy in. You are not going to run an engine that needs 100KW input, with 100W. Notice how most of these sites call them "boosters" since they know that one will not run a car by itself, but possibly help the gas mileage during regular gasoline powered use.

They show you how to build your own, try it http://waterpoweredcar.com/hydrobooster2.html . I have made a few, as have a few friends of mine. They can be used for small jobs, just don't expect miracles...

Loup

Thank you very much.

Just be careful when experimenting, since hydrogen burns with a deep blue (mostly UV) flame. You may not see the flame with the room lights on.

Hydrogen, and hydroxyl, flames also have very odd "quirks" about them. They burn in open air at far lower temperatures than you would expect, but if the flame is applied to certain metals or other solids, the temperature can kick up past several thousand degrees quickly. The flame can also weld/solder VERY odd materials together, like most metals and glass. Worth playing around with, especially if you can find a local source of the 300 series stainless steel screen. Also, don't store hydroxyl (H and O) intermixed in the same container under ANY pressure, only store H2 or O2 by themselves under pressure. Hydroxyl under pressure will explode, if it is not under pressure, or under a VERY small pressure, it will implode as it converts back to water. Keep it around without pressurizing it so you won't have to worry about flying shards of plastic or metal.

Loup

Thanks for the link Loup.

I see that using stainless cover plates seems to be a very popular way of making the cells for the hydrogen generators. A friend and myself are making a couple of generators to put in a couple of diesel vehicles in hopefully an attempt to gain a few extra MPG's. Now we are being realistic and planning on running them on a separate power source. I was planning on using my solar electric system to charge a couple of gel-cel batteries that would last 1 or 2 days.

I was wondering if you had any pro's or con's about putting the gas produced (hydrogen and oxygen) directly into the air intake or should the hydrogen be the only gas fed to the engine, venting the oxygen to the air.

gelatinous said:

Thanks for the link Loup.

I see that using stainless cover plates seems to be a very popular way of making the cells for the hydrogen generators. A friend and myself are making a couple of generators to put in a couple of diesel vehicles in hopefully an attempt to gain a few extra MPG's. Now we are being realistic and planning on running them on a separate power source. I was planning on using my solar electric system to charge a couple of gel-cel batteries that would last 1 or 2 days.

Click to expand...

It should be taking less than 18 watts per cell, and your alternator should be able to handle that easily. Two tips on making your own: Use mesh instead of solid plates/sheets, and make sure that you have at least one set of unconnected (electrically) plates in between the positive and negative plates, it will stop a LOT of the problems of cell overheating and other related problems.

gelatinous said:

I was wondering if you had any pro's or con's about putting the gas produced (hydrogen and oxygen) directly into the air intake or should the hydrogen be the only gas fed to the engine, venting the oxygen to the air.

Click to expand...

Running both is the way that I saw the most improvement on my VW, BUT it may be different in any one car. I had long ago taken the ECM out of my VWs and run in manually tuned "limp home" mode (turbos make the old CIS and CIS-E ECMs over correct with the O2 sensor, ain't worth the hassle). On any car, remember that since you are adding in hydrogen, with or without any added O2, you WILL have added H2O in the tailpipe, that WILL mix with either the nitrogen compounds or the sulfur compounds and create acids that will speed up the demise of your exhaust system.

Loup

There are lots of videos on YouTube about hydroxyl or HHO.

Here's one that explains the use of HHO in lieu of acetylene gas:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6YYUOx6fBU

Here's a video of an HHO generator that really makes some gas! Probably draws 50+ amps! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWDZ0RGWBUg

Interesting stuff... I'm thinking about it.

LoupGarou said:

On any car, remember that since you are adding in hydrogen, with or without any added O2, you WILL have added H2O in the tailpipe, that WILL mix with either the nitrogen compounds or the sulfur compounds and create acids that will speed up the demise of your exhaust system.

Click to expand...

And will make you fail emmissions tests, if that is something you have to deal with.

dissimulo said:

And will make you fail emmissions tests, if that is something you have to deal with.

Click to expand...

Exactly.

This is another reason I was suggesting using it for more appropriate uses, like heating.

Loup