Citicorp Refuses to Process Firearms Transactions

lgsracer

lgsracer

Inactive
Citicorp Refuses to Process Firearms Transactions
Filed under: News — Tags: Credit Cards, Firearms — Editor @ 12 pm


http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html

The NSSF reports that Citicorp’s Merchant Services Division is refusing to process gun-related customer credit-card sales. This applies both to legal firearms transactions conducted through licensed FFLs as well as ordinary sales of firearms accessories. The first company to be affected by this decision appears to be firearms distributor CDNN Sports, a large retail operation based in Texas. Citi Merchant Services and First Data notified CDNN that its merchant services account would be terminated and funds seized. (Citicorp Merchant Services employs First Data Merchant Services Corporation to handle credit card transactions.)



Charlie Crawford, president of CDNN Sports Inc., explained: “We were contacted recently by First Data/Citi Merchant Services by a June Rivera-Mantilla stating that we were terminated and funds were being seized for selling firearms in a non-face-to-face transaction. Although perfectly legal, we were also informed that no transactions would be processed in the future, even for non-firearms.”

If you have a Citigroup credit card, or use Citibank for your banking services, you may want to consider shifting your accounts to another financial services provider — and be sure you tell the Citibank representatives why you are making the shift. If gun owners act in solidarity, other credit card companies may think twice about following Citigroup’s lead in refusing to handle gun transactions. To voice your concern to Citi Merchant Services and First Data Corp. directly, you can contact June Rivera-Mantilla at 631-683-7734 or her supervisor Robert Tenenbaum at 631-683-6570.

If you run a firearms-related business and wish to shift to an NSSF-affiliated credit card processing program, contact Payment Alliance International at 1-866-371-2273 (ext. 1131).
 
West Eagle

West Eagle

Inactive
Credit card processing company rejects firearms industry - Sites Gun Control Laws...

Source:
http://www.nssf.org/news/fromBP.cfm?BPseq=704
Posted Under Fair Use Principals · 17 U.S.C. § 107​

REFUSES TO PROCESS TRANSACTIONS . . . Citi Merchant Services and First Data Corp. are refusing to process any credit card transactions between federally licensed firearms retailers, distributors and manufacturers -- a move which will severely limit available inventory of firearms and ammunition to military, law enforcement and law-abiding Americans.

Source / More Info at:
http://www.nssf.org/news/fromBP.cfm?BPseq=704

Image of Letter from Bank to Merchant:
http://www.nssf.org/share/images/letter.jpg
 
Worrier King

Worrier King

Inactive
Citicorp is a enemy of the people.

Modern Banksters(money changers) and politicians always prefer a gun free population, which is also a basic premise of what the 2nd is all about.

Citicorp not only are Ponzi grifters and confidence man, but they are also a direct threat to the Constitution/BOR and a sovereign U.S.
 
rhughe13

rhughe13

Heart of Dixie
It's a free market. Drop citicorp.

Actually this would make great advertisement to ruin them.

Pass the word on.
 
BigFootsCousin

BigFootsCousin

Molon Labe!
Geez.....

And I was going to get one of these cards. Zero percent interest for one year then only 7.99% after that.

Glad I didn't send for it.

BFC
 
rhughe13

rhughe13

Heart of Dixie
Worrier King said:
No its not, its a monopoly of colluding corporations backed by government/Federal Reserve insolvency and a mass national dependency on foreign energy.
:kaid:
Click to expand...

Unless they have stockholders like Faux Noos where their stock is dropping. Otherwise, I agree.
 
mbabulldog

mbabulldog

Has No Life - Lives on TB
BigFootsCousin said:
Geez.....

And I was going to get one of these cards. Zero percent interest for one year then only 7.99% after that.

Glad I didn't send for it.

BFC
Click to expand...

Screw that, ABSOLUTELY take their money and use it interest free for one year, THEN cancel it before they can make money off you.
 
B

Ben Sunday

Has No Life - Lives on TB
WK....not for nothing, but I don't see the connection between dependence on foreign energy and a credit card company refusing firearms transactions.
 
BigFootsCousin

BigFootsCousin

Molon Labe!
This thread should be merged with another on Main saying the same thing.

West Eagle, nice job providing the link to the actual letter, thanks!

BFC
 
ElkHollow

ElkHollow

Inactive
SUE THEIR A$#&$ off!!!

As long as these transactions are legal.. Then CDNN has grounds to SUE!!!!.... I like CDNN, I have done a lot of business with them and I see them at the Market hall gun show in Dallas when I am down there and have had a chance to chat with them on occasion... GOOD GUYS!!!


ELK...................:wvflg:
.
.
.
 
Pass Go

Pass Go

Inactive
Well, I may just test that out tomorrow and buy that 10 gauge side-by-side I've been eye-balling at the local gun shop, knowing that I might not need to buy new targets because I have a Citibank card will make the venture even more fun.

I'll post back how I make out.
 
West Eagle

West Eagle

Inactive
BigFootsCousin said:
This thread should be merged with another on Main saying the same thing.

West Eagle, nice job providing the link to the actual letter, thanks!

BFC
Click to expand...

Thank you! It looks like we posted at the same time. I've asked an admin to merge them. ((Merge Completed))

- - -

In the actual letter you can see where the Credit Card Processor states,
"We at Citi Mechant Service are unable to monitor or track adherence to these Gun Control Laws."

This begs the questions are gun laws and controls becoming a burden to commerce and thus stopping the flow of commerce?
 
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D

don24mac

Veteran Member
So, they'd PREFER to see cash transactions regarding firearms and munitions? I thought they wanted More control/trackability of transactions, not less...
 
West Eagle

West Eagle

Inactive
don24mac said:
So, they'd PREFER to see cash transactions regarding firearms and munitions? I thought they wanted More control/trackability of transactions, not less...
Click to expand...

I'm looking at this as a move to slow down the commerce\sell of guns at all levels Supplier\dealer\shop\End Buyer.

The question is why now. However, they site online sales as the problem... But pulling all credit card processing impacts more than just online sales.

Besides the burden of adherence to gun control laws should be with the 'shop that sold the gun' - not the credit card company used?

It sounds like possible fallout from all the new laws that require banks to report possible 'terrorist' activity, money transactions, etc... are being used against the commerce of guns?

Who knows... anti-gun groups went after the gun manufactures awhile back, now the credit card companies?
 
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T

Troke

Deceased
I'd say the lawyers got into it.

Potential tort claims will just naturally frighten any corp.

Didn't Congress pas a law exempting gun manufacturers for manufacturing a legal weapon that might have been used illegally?

I am sure they did. So now, nail the credit card company.

I keep telling you guys, the courts run the country.
 
G

Garryowen

Deceased
The Shell credit card is a citi card. That's why I didn't get one w hen my last one expired. They had refused to serve a gun shop somewhere, and I decided they didn't need my business. If you have a Shell card, dump it and let Shell know exactly why. There really needs to be some loss associated with their behavior.
 
R

Rams82

Inactive
Maybe alot of preppers are going crazy buying guns and ammo with no interest payments.:lkick: If I ever get a credit card it wont be from these idiots.

ETA: Think they might try the same policy with gold?
 
Satanta

Satanta

Stone Cold Crazy
_______________
When did it become Citibanks bussiness to track firearms sold?

They "Seized" funds from CDNN? Under what law does that fall?

Keep their card. Go to the ATM or bank and withdraw the money and buy said items then at the end of the one-year-free send them a note cancelling the card and the recipts with a "Look what I did." note on it.
 
D

Dozdoats

Deceased
Interesting... our Sears card is a CITI card too. And yesterday I decided to get the stuff I needed to finish several projects that have been hanging around far too long in pieces in boxes. So I ordered over $600 from LaRue Tactical, over $1100 from Midway for gun bits and pieces, optics, mounts etc. (hey, Midway has Millett's DMS1 1-4X scope on sale for $199.99).

And all charged to the Sears/CITI card.

I had email this morning from LaRue (with UPS tracking info- those people are fast) and order confirmation from Midway too. I'll be calling my favorite sales rep at CDNN later to check on the story from their end and if it's true, we'll pay off the Sears/CITI card and shred it- after we send a nice note to Sears and CITI to explain why they won't be getting any more business from us.

dd

ETA: I did call CDNN, and the story was confirmed. CDNN was given 30 days to find a new provider, but after 1/28/08 no more transactions will be carried out from CITI-issued credit cards. You CAN order from CDNN up until that time using CITI issued credit cards however. CDNN is a good company to do business with, they DO NOT skirt the law (any firearm ordered from them MUST be shipped to a Federal Firearms License (FFL) dealer and CANNOT be shipped directly to the customer ordering it. Thus the whole issue as raised by CITI is a smokescreen to cover antigunnery at its worst.

Hit 'em where they live, cut up your CITI credit card(s) NOW!!! AND SEND 'EM THE PIECES!
 
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chromaphase

chromaphase

Contributing Member
Last Saturday, I used an AMEX card to buy a new Springfield handgun from a dealer at a local gun show.

I can report it sailed right through. Nice to know I can use their money for free and get some reward points too.
 
LoupGarou

LoupGarou

Ancient Fuzzball
Charlie Crawford, president of CDNN Sports Inc., explained: “We were contacted recently by First Data/Citi Merchant Services by a June Rivera-Mantilla stating that we were terminated and funds were being seized for selling firearms in a non-face-to-face transaction. Although perfectly legal, we were also informed that no transactions would be processed in the future, even for non-firearms.”
Click to expand...

Seized (From: http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/Seized )

transitive verb:
  1. to vest ownership of a freehold estate
  2. to put in possession of something
  3. to take possession of, confiscate
  4. to take possession of by legal process
  5. to possess or take by force : capture
  6. to take prisoner, arrest
  7. to take hold of : clutch
  8. to take or lay hold suddenly or forcibly

I'm not sure how they are "seizing" the money from the buyer, if the buyer hasn't paid yet. Maybe they are calling it seized when they just refuse to pay the seller. Either way, technically, at that point it is their money and not the buyers if it is a true "credit" purchase system and they can do this (refusing the sale).

Now, if it is not a "credit" sale and the buyer has already sent his funds to Citi to do the transaction, then Citi is in the wrong by "seizing" any funds. They have no legal right to do so in that circumstance (debit transaction). I'm more curious now to find out if it was a credit or debit transaction (whether the buyer had already funded the transaction). If it was credit, it shows the modus and mentality of Citi, and possibly/probably all of the other credit institutions. If it was debit, and this is not immediately challenged in a legal court of law, then we are seeing the beginning of a VERY DANGEROUS PRECEDENT, and quite possibly the biggest clue to the DGIs that the time is almost up as far as prepping/getting ready.

How much would you want to bet that they would do this with a debit card on a much smaller scale as well as well? We know they can with credit cards. We also know that they inventory, catalog, and database all of the information that is used in every transaction that is made, and share that information freely with many entities, including the government agencies.

My only remaining questions on this are:
  • Was it credit or debit?
  • Was this a test?
  • Are we to expect more of this with other institutions?
  • Is this the start of the tightening of the economic noose that has been put around the majority of people's necks through the use of "easy credit"? (Oh, you bought a few "eeevuhl guns" a few years ago, you can't have a mortgage with us.)
  • Are we to expect other "issues" to pop up soon with credit/debit purchases? (You have four people in your family, you are trying to buy too much food for them for more than a week. Purchase denied.)
  • How long do the DGIs have left?

A few finishing thoughts...

Thomas Jefferson said:
"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and the corporations which grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
Click to expand...

Mayer Rothschild said:
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes its laws."
Click to expand...

Loup
 
BertaBurtonLake

BertaBurtonLake

Inactive
I guess in this case, seized could also mean frozen, as in a motor seizing? I dunno, seems like it could not possible mean they confiscated funds. I am just guessing, though.

Berta
 
NoPlugsNM

NoPlugsNM

Deceased
If CITI is doing this, the rest of the CC companies will follow, test case scenario at this point in time possibly or will become the same/similar concern of the other companies down line.

As I read their reasoning it does not make sense, since RETAILER ARMS BUSINESSES are licensed and approved gun/arms handlers, the need for face-to-face sales is exempt. I think that the problem lies in the fact that RETAIL SALES are taking place by this company to the general public. Now, their retail sales may not be the actual guns themselves, but accessories for guns and amunition, however being able to make the distinction must underlie this issue. Seems as though they are mixing apples and oranges regarding their use of the CC'ds by retail businesses and the public consumer.
 
O

Oldotaku

Veteran Member
Last year, I purchased a handgun, various sizes of ammo, and a bunch of reloading supplies with a Discover card. No problems, and cashback bonus too (of course, I'm paying for that too).

Citi's doing something stupid again. No wonder they're going bankrupt.
 
Kris Gandillon

Kris Gandillon

The Other Curmudgeon
_______________
Not defending Citi but some things to understand about a Credit Card Merchant agreement...

Do you have such an agreement...have your ever read the fine print?

All of them that I have seen have one or more paragraphs outlining the fact that transactions must be LEGAL transactions and conform to all applicable laws and IF a transaction is determined to have not conformed to the applicable laws then the transaction can be nullfied...i.e. the funds recovered (seized?) from the merchant who engaged in the illegal transaction. Engaging in "illegal transactions" is also grounds for termination of the merchant agreement between the credit card processor and the vendor who engaged in the illegal transaction.

I don't know that we have enough facts or details of the case to make an absolute determination regarding whether Citi or CDNN is in the right or wrong here.

Kris
 
H

hammerhead

Inactive
True.

I guess I'm saying that the firearms industry is highly regulated, and watched, and CDNN has been in business for a long time and knows what is okay and what is not, and undoubtedly has had much legal advice over the years.

I'd be surprised if these transactions were anything more than legal business-as-usual for CDNN and that either

- some Citi employee misread something and punched out a letter
- it's part of (tinfoil alert) an antigun corporate-policy thing.

Time will tell. If CDNN actually did something illegal, that will get blasted out into the news very quickly.
 
D

Dozdoats

Deceased
Doesn't matter. CDNN has no choice about having to ship firearms to licensed dealers. ATFE regulates that and would be on them like ducks on a junebug if CDNN failed to follow their legal obligations by one whisker. ATFE has been going over dealers lately with a fine toothed comb, even minor mistakes on paperwork (NOT with criminal intent) are costing dealers fines and in some cases their licenses.

Citi's letter is a smokescreen, a ploy, a red herring- nothing else but a backhanded effort to separate themselves from the firearms trade using legal liabilities as an excuse. Well, they can certainly separate themselves from MY business- no problem. Plenty of credit card companies are looking for customers who pay their bills on time.

I hope Citi goes bankrupt because of this. It would serve 'em right.

dd
 
blackjeep

blackjeep

The end times are here.
Look folks, if you don't have all your "stuff" by now, that 's shortsightedness on your part. There will be any number of schemes, "laws", restrictions, "emergencies", etc. to make buying or possessing firearms and ammo illegal. Part of being prepared is recognizing potential problems with acquiring these items and taking action to be properly equipped when the time comes. It's been obvious for at least forty years (since the original firearms rules of 1968) that things would not get better.

That being said, what we see here is fascism (business and government colluding) in action. The .gov is to blame for having too many rules on the books and Citibank acting like they are trying to abide by the "rules". I feel this is merely Citibank's way of doing the will of the .gov and using a convenient excuse to carry out the .gov's master plan of incremental disarmament.

Nuts to Citibank. I won't cancel my card, I'll just make sure to use it and pay the bill each month so they don't make a penny....
 
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