Time is running out - literally, says scientist

PHD

Veteran Member
Time is running out - literally, says scientist

By Tom Chivers and Roger Highfield, Science Editor

Scientists have come up with the radical suggestion that the universe's end may come not with a bang but a standstill - that time could be literally running out and could, one day, stop altogether.

The idea that time itself could cease to be in billions of years - and everything will grind to a halt - has been set out by Professor José Senovilla, Marc Mars and Raül Vera of the University of the Basque Country, Bilbao, and Univerisity of Salamanca, Spain.

The motivation for this radical end to time itself is to provide an alternative explanation for "dark energy" - the mysterious antigravitational force that has been suggested to explain a cosmic phenomenon that has baffled scientists.

A decade ago, astronomers noticed that distant supernovae - exploding stars on the very fringes of the universe - seemed to be moving faster than those nearer to the centre, suggesting that they were accelerating as they shot through space.

Dark energy was suggested as a possible means of powering this acceleration of the expansion of the cosmos.

The problem is that no-one has any idea what dark energy is or where it comes from, and theoreticians around the world have been scrambling to find out what it is, or get rid of it.

The team's proposal, which will be published in the journal Physical Review D, does away altogether with dark energy. Instead, Prof Senovilla says, the appearance of acceleration is caused by time itself gradually slowing down, like a clock that needs winding.

"We do not say that the expansion of the universe itself is an illusion," he explains. "What we say it may be an illusion is the acceleration of this expansion - that is, the possibility that the expansion is, and has been, increasing its rate."

Instead, if time gradually slows "but we naively kept using our equations to derive the changes of the expansion with respect of 'a standard flow of time', then the simple models that we have constructed in our paper show that an "effective accelerated rate of the expansion" takes place."

While the change would be infinitesimally slow from an ordinary human perspective, from the grand perspective of cosmology - in which scientists study ancient light from suns that shone billions of years ago - this temporal slowing could be easily measured.

Astronomers are able to discern the expansion speed of the universe using the so-called "red shift" technique.

The principle is the same as that of an ambulance siren which gets higher as it comes towards the listener but lower as it moves away. Similarly, a star moving away appears redder in colour than one moving towards us.

Scientists look for exploding stars - supernovae - of certain types that provide a benchmark to work against.

However, the accuracy of these measurements depend on time remaining invariable throughout the universe.

If time is indeed slowing down, so that according to this new suggestion our solitary time dimension is slowly turning into a new space dimension, then the far-distant, ancient stars seen by cosmologists would therefore, from our perspective, look as though they were accelerating.

"Our calculations show that we would think that the expansion of the universe is accelerating," says Prof Senovilla.

The group bases its idea on one particular variant of superstring theory, a so called theory of everything, in which our universe is confined to the surface of a membrane, or brane, floating in a higher-dimensional space, known as the "bulk".

In some number of billions of years, time would cease to be time altogether - and everything will stop.

"Then everything will be frozen, like a snapshot of one instant, forever," Prof Senovilla tells New Scientist magazine. "Our planet will be long gone by then."

However, he adds that the team is only assuming there is one dimension of time. Itzhak Bars of the University of Southern California in Los Angeles has put forward the bizarre suggestion that there are two dimensions of time, not the one that we are all familiar with.

Prof Senovilla says: "One thing that is definitely not included in our models is the possibility of having more than one time dimension."

While the theory is outlandish, it is not without support. Prof Gary Gibbons, a cosmologist at Cambridge University, believes the idea has merit. "We believe that time emerged during the Big Bang, and if time can emerge, it can also disappear - that's just the reverse effect," he says.

"The wonderful thing about these explanations is that, strange as they sound, the Large Hadron Collider could provide evidence for extra dimensions in the universe," comments Dr Brian Cox of Manchester University, referring to the atom smasher in Geneva that will start up next year.

"If that happens, then these kind of theories will move out of the realm of speculation and into the mainstream."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/ma...07/12/18/scitime118.xml&CMP=ILC-mostviewedbox
 

UncurledA

Inactive
There is a LOT going on with time, space, and energy potentials about which we are just beginning to scratch the surface. All the old ideas about conservation of energy, the ether, wave potentials, spacetime, dipoles, and the like are coming under examination. The attitude of most is, "well, if I it isn't perceived by me it doesn't matter". Nothing could be further from the truth.
 

Rastech

Veteran Member
Well, as speed and distance equal time, with things accelerating, that means faster and further, so surely that means more time not less?

Ok, I'll go back to reading the paper now . . . . .
 

phloydius

Veteran Member
Peak Oil, and now Peak Time. Great.

I can just hear it now... "Everyone needs to conserve time by limiting their chronological footprint."
 

Hokey

Veteran Member
Everyone knows that time is money so I predict economic chaos when time stops too. Get out of the stockmarket now!!
 

D_el

Veteran Member
Quote: "seemed to be moving faster than those nearer to the centre, suggesting that they were accelerating as they shot through space."


It's the BORG Collective and they're head this way.
Resistance if futile! :ld:
:shkr:
 

vwbug

Membership Revoked
Well, as speed and distance equal time, with things accelerating, that means faster and further, so surely that means more time not less?

Ok, I'll go back to reading the paper now . . . . .

I read this in a book, it was used to explain Astral travel:

Einstein's theory of relativity says, when an object goes faster than the speed of light, for it, "time stands still" ..

There is stuff in that book I wish I could wrap my head around!
It was written a very long time ago, the book, if anyone wants to read it
is Course #1 of the Books by C.C.Zain from www.light.org
 

PHD

Veteran Member
"The motivation for this radical end to time itself is to provide an alternative explanation for "dark energy" - the mysterious antigravitational force that has been suggested to explain a cosmic phenomenon that has baffled scientists."

The above statement is the key to the origin of this goofy theory.

Dark matter is an unexplained (and probably unexplainable) phenomenon. Dark matter as a concept only exists because there are observed phenomena in the universe that can't be explained. E.G. galaxies rotating faster than expected.

This is why the government is spending billions of dollars on underground particle acceleratiors.
 

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
It's Back to the Future...

Outatime_Number_Plate.jpg
 

Aardaerimus

Anunnaku
I would expect time to <b>seem</b> relatively constant wherever you are.

Wasn't there a time study done once with regards to the effects of mass upon time and space? I think the gist was that the closer you were to a massive object or gravitational center, the slower time would go.

I think it was discovered by way of minute discrepancies in atomic clocks at various elevations. The closer they were to the earth the slower they were and vice versa.

I always wondered if this is why black holes (super dense objects) "appear" to capture light and not release it. Perhaps light is actually escaping at a normal rate, but due to the time difference from our point of view it seems to take "forever" or not at all. Thus the light is a victem of time, not gravity.

I can see a star collapsing and becoming super-dense mass, but I can't see that matter imploding into nothingness or forming a literal hole. It only appears to be a hole because nothing that goes near comes "out" with the exception of some forms of radiation that seem to be detectable around the edges.

If you were near the super-dense object time would seem normal there, yet looking beyond at less dense areas time would appear to be whizzing by.

I guess it's not far from the concept of fictions, wherein the characters travel to another world then back home only to find out that the flow of time was totally different and while they were only gone for a year or so decades may have passed on earth.

Sorry. More pet theory. :D
 

Hermit

Inactive
There is a LOT going on with time, space, and energy potentials about which we are just beginning to scratch the surface. All the old ideas about conservation of energy, the ether, wave potentials, spacetime, dipoles, and the like are coming under examination. The attitude of most is, "well, if I it isn't perceived by me it doesn't matter". Nothing could be further from the truth.
Somebody who's not calling scientists "stupid" ..... GET HIMMMM!

"I am the Alpha and the Omega."
Yep. Everything gets created, evolves, devolves, then dies. Except for the Creator.
 

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
Pea, you don't have to, because if this ever comes to pass, you have "all the time in the world..."

;)
 

PHD

Veteran Member
Wasn't there a time study done once with regards to the effects of mass upon time and space? I think the gist was that the closer you were to a massive object or gravitational center, the slower time would go.

I think it was discovered by way of minute discrepancies in atomic clocks at various elevations. The closer they were to the earth the slower they were and vice versa.

This is the gravitational time dilation portion of Einstein's theory of relativity.

Examples

Our global system of timekeeping is based on atomic clocks stationed at different places on Earth. The clocks at Boulder, Colorado, which are at a much higher altitude than others in the United States, and tick at a much faster rate; these clocks require adjustment to keep the slower pace of the worldwide "official" time.


An experiment was done in 1971 using atomic clocks flying around the world strapped to the wall in an airliner. In 40 hours of flying at 550 miles per hour the flying clock ran slower and measured less time than the clock on the ground.
 

Camasjune

Inactive
Linear time is a human invention and God does not operate by the rules of our inventions. To try to bend our made up rules of linear time to explain the unexplainable is ludicrous.

Ir reminds me of those deep discussions way back when while in the purple haze of the fruits of the Emerald Triangle.
 

Aardaerimus

Anunnaku
This is the gravitational time dilation portion of Einstein's theory of relativity.

Examples

Our global system of timekeeping is based on atomic clocks stationed at different places on Earth. The clocks at Boulder, Colorado, which are at a much higher altitude than others in the United States, and tick at a much faster rate; these clocks require adjustment to keep the slower pace of the worldwide "official" time.


An experiment was done in 1971 using atomic clocks flying around the world strapped to the wall in an airliner. In 40 hours of flying at 550 miles per hour the flying clock ran slower and measured less time than the clock on the ground.

Ahh, Cool! Thanks for the reference! :-)
 

twincougars

Deceased
Gee, to me it seems like time is speeding up....

Yup. Maybe it's my age (61) but, for example, every Sunday night when I sign into our local Ham net, I could almost swear that I had just done it the day before. My mind is leaping a weeks time into a day's time. I get up, and I go to bed, and I suppose something happens inbetween, but it's over and done with so fast that I hardly notice it!!
 

Christian for Israel

Knight of Jerusalem
If you enjoy being at work now just wait till time slows down a bit....

actually, as time slows down there's less of it in every day. the result is the days seem shorter. remember, scripture mentions this:

Mar 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

some scientists have speculated that time moved a lot faster in the past, in effect cramming a lot more duration into every single day. that theory could explain in part whs some believe the earth has been here for millions of years while others say it's only been here 6000 years. think about it, if you measure duration as we know it today it may in fact measure millions of today's years while measuring the actual days may result in a mere 6000 years of history.

before you scoff, remember that, until scientists were able to slow down and even stop light (time is measured based on the speed of light) the idea of time (and light) speed being changable at all was utterly dismissed.
 

Aardaerimus

Anunnaku
So, do we turn the clocks back or ahead?

Hehe

Like the sun and moon, clocks are merely a physical representation that help us keep track of a much lower level phenomenon.

From our vantage point there really is no way we could detect a change in time using implements like clocks since the clock itself is stuck in the same continuum as us. A second is still one click and a minute is still one trip around the dial and a year is still a revolution around the sun.
Without stepping "out" and looking back in it would be tough to observe a difference.

Perhaps the reason that some people "feel" a difference is because half of a human IS outside of the box - that is "time". Do we have a soul? I believe so, and perhaps this is just more evidence of that.
 

sardog

Contributing Member
I would expect time to <b>seem</b> relatively constant wherever you are.

Wasn't there a time study done once with regards to the effects of mass upon time and space? I think the gist was that the closer you were to a massive object or gravitational center, the slower time would go.

I think it was discovered by way of minute discrepancies in atomic clocks at various elevations. The closer they were to the earth the slower they were and vice versa.

I always wondered if this is why black holes (super dense objects) "appear" to capture light and not release it. Perhaps light is actually escaping at a normal rate, but due to the time difference from our point of view it seems to take "forever" or not at all. Thus the light is a victem of time, not gravity.

I can see a star collapsing and becoming super-dense mass, but I can't see that matter imploding into nothingness or forming a literal hole. It only appears to be a hole because nothing that goes near comes "out" with the exception of some forms of radiation that seem to be detectable around the edges.

If you were near the super-dense object time would seem normal there, yet looking beyond at less dense areas time would appear to be whizzing by.

I guess it's not far from the concept of fictions, wherein the characters travel to another world then back home only to find out that the flow of time was totally different and while they were only gone for a year or so decades may have passed on earth.

Sorry. More pet theory. :D

Very interesting theory. I ponder these themes when I'm not otherwise preoccupied with the end of the age/world.:popcorn1:
 

Ozlady

Inactive
Rev 10:6 And swore by him that liveth forever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
 

NC Susan

Deceased
[FONT=Verdana,Arial]
Winding the Clock


When I was a little lad, my old grandfather said
That none should wind the clock but he, and so at time for bed
He'd fumble for the curious key kept high upon the shelf
And set aside that little task entirely for himself.

In time grandfather passed away and so that duty fell
Unto my father who performed the weekly custom well.
He held that clocks were not to be by careless persons wound
And he alone should turn the key or move the hands around.

I envied him that little task and wished that I might be
The one entrusted with the turning of the key.
But year by year the clock was his exclusive bit of care-
Until the day the angels came and smoothed his silver hair.

Today the task is mine to do, like those who've gone before,
I am the jealous guardian of that round and glassy door.
And until at my chamber door God's messenger shall knock
To me alone shall be reserved the right to wind the clock.


author unknown
[/FONT]
 
Top