Major supermarket chains totally abandon Detroit

ElkHollow

Inactive
Major supermarket chains totally abandon Detroit

Hmmm....imagine that. A city so chock full of crime, shoplifting, and urban violence that supermarkets can't, and won't, exist there. WHAT could possibly have possibly caused this horrible problem? Naw....it couldn't be THAT! Or could it?

Get out of the cities, folks. This is but a taste of what is to come.
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Grocery closings hit Detroit hard

City shoppers' choices dwindle as last big chain leaves

Joel J. Smith and Nathan Hurst / The Detroit News

National chains stay away from Detroit
.....................................................................................
Here are some reasons cited by national retail experts on why brand supermarket chains avoid Detroit:

Net profits at supermarkets run 1-5 percent of revenue. If shoplifting by customers and employees runs 7-8 percent, the store is doomed to lose money.

High cost of maintaining security for the stores, something most suburban locations don't need. Shopping carts often disappear, at a cost of $300 per cart.

Personal safety for employees, with robberies, thefts and assaults both inside and outside the stores.

Difficulty finding qualified managers willing to run Detroit stores. Most prefer the suburban locations.

Problems seeking qualified workers for the stores. It can be a major undertaking to find employees who can pass reading, writing and math tests along with credit, criminal background and drug tests. And there is a constant turnover of employees at stores in the city. "It's a human resource nightmare," said David J. Livingston, a supermarket expert from Wisconsin.

Declining population. No national chain wants to move into an area that is losing population.

Lower per-capita income. That means less expenditure on food.

Racism and discrimination accusations. If the store raises its prices because of higher costs of doing business, it is often charged with gouging the poor.

A well-publicized violent crime or armed robbery can cost the store 10 percent of its business. Three such crimes, experts say, and the store may as well close its doors.

DETROIT -- Colleen Rogers isn't looking forward to crossing the street to shop for even a few groceries.

The store, a locally owned market, is convenient, just steps away from the beauty shop where she works on Livernois in Detroit. But what troubles her is its higher prices, lack of variety and the low quality of fruit, vegetables, meats and other food -- staples Rogers could find every day in abundance at the Farmer Jack store near her home that is about to close.

"Sure, there's other grocery stores, but try finding something to eat in there," said the 34-year-old skin care specialist. "You can't buy quality food in the city anymore."

The lack of major grocery stores has long been a quality-of-life problem in Detroit and one reason some families don't want to live in the city. Now, however, the situation is getting worse as the last two Farmer Jack stores in the city prepare to close by Saturday.

If no grocery stores buy the Farmer Jack locations from the Great Atlantic & Pacific Tea Co., Detroit will be left without a single national chain supermarket, much less a Wal-Mart or Meijer superstore or a Costco-style warehouse store.

Analysts say no other major city in America is such a supermarket desert. And it's not likely to change anytime soon.

Recent efforts by city officials, developers and community activists to woo a supermarket have been unsuccessful. Major grocery chains, which generally operate with thin profit margins, say doing business in Detroit is no-win situation. High employee turnover, cost of security and loss from theft are often cited. The city's comparably low income rates preclude selling an abundance of high-profit, upscale items.

The situation has left regular shoppers at the Farmer Jack stores -- one on East Jefferson and the other on Livernois at Seven Mile -- with two choices: drive the suburbs to shop if they have transportation, or buy groceries at smaller stores near their homes.

"Why should we have to go elsewhere to find a trustworthy store?" asked Joe Lanier, a longtime shopper of the Livernois Farmer Jack who owns a nearby business. "It's ridiculous you can't buy all the groceries you need in Detroit."

High cost of doing business

Within its 139 square miles, Detroit has 155 grocery stores, defined as various-size food markets with meat and produce. The city also has 1,000 convenience stores -- including gas stations and party stores -- that sell some type of food.

A 2003 University of Michigan study of Detroit supermarkets showed there were only five grocery stores in Detroit with over 20,000 square feet. The report concluded that the city could support 41 supermarkets with at least 40,000 square feet of space based on its population and spending habits.

Over the years, national chains have located in Detroit, only to pull up stakes and flee. There are a multitude of reasons, according to retail analysts, with the major deterrent being the high cost of doing business in the city.

"Sometimes even the people that live in the neighborhood don't feel safe shopping in the store," said David J. Livingston, a supermarket expert from Wisconsin. "They'll drive right past that Detroit store to go to a suburban store where they feel more comfortable."

While crime is a concern, Matt Allen, press secretary for Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick, said the issue should not be used as an excuse by the big chains to avoid Detroit.

"In certain areas where the socioeconomic is probably at the lowest end of our society, there are a lot of desperate people," Allen said.

But, he added, businesses can take measures to prevent theft.

"(Businesses) have added lighting, changed the heights of the counters, put the registers in certain places -- security by environmental design. It all helps," he said.

Detroit also suffers from a lack of strip malls with tenants to serve everyday needs. Large supermarket chains don't like to open stand-alone stores, said Ken Dalto, a retail expert from Farmington Hills.

"Larger supermarkets have a better chance of surviving if they are located in strip malls where people can do one-stop shopping," Dalto said. "If you don't have these anchor spots at strip malls, you aren't going to get the large chain supermarkets."

A number of the city's major developers and economic growth officials said efforts to draw a national grocer to the city have met tepid responses.

Midtown Development President Robert Slattery said he showed a plan for a 12,000-square-foot store with 65 parking spaces to specialty grocer Trader Joe's, but the company didn't bite.

His company and Wayne State University are still working to lure a new market to Midtown.

Expired food is a problem

Most independent food stores in Detroit are owned and operated by Chaldeans, some of whom have been in business for 40 or more years. A few are owned by African-Americans.

Martin Manna, executive director of the Chaldean American Chamber of Commerce in Southfield, said Chaldeans have stepped in as A&P, Farmer Jack and Kroger have abandoned the city.

"There usually is a market within walking distance of nearly every area of Detroit," Manna said. "It might not be a supermarket. That might be why there are so many people eating potato chips rather than wholesome foods in Detroit."

Although shoppers may complain prices are higher at independent stores, independent grocers said they strive to be competitive, even with the high costs of running a store in the city.

While there are clean, well-run stores scattered throughout the city, many don't offer the variety and selection of a Farmer Jack.

Many residents rely on convenience stores for bread, milk, eggs and snacks. Small stores that do offer meat and produce often sell food past its expiration date, shoppers said. The city has raided stores over the years to crack down on sales of expired food, but many say the problem still persists.

Pat Hollins, an activist with the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, told of stopping in a small neighborhood grocer several weeks ago and immediately finding two expired packages of breakfast sausage.

ACORN has been picketing stores it contends have been selling expired meats and unhealthy foods.

"We have problems with meat and produce being expired," Hollins said. "We have no security in the parking lots, no restrooms in the stores and a poor selection of food products. When you cross Eight Mile, these problems all disappear. The poor folks, who don't have transportation to the suburbs to shop, are being taken advantage of."

'Where's the justice in that?'

Without chain grocers in her neighborhood, shoppers like Cheryl Coleman, who lives just blocks from the Farmer Jack on East Jefferson, will have to travel much farther for low-priced sundries.

"I'm sure going to miss this store," Coleman said. "I got everything I need here, just everything. We need a good grocery store in the city, right here on Jefferson."

She said she'll probably end up shopping at a Kroger in Grosse Pointe. "It's either Kroger or the little local store," Coleman said. "And they don't always have everything I want."

Gordon Alexander, 52, who lives on the city's east side, said suburbanites have it good compared to Detroiters.

"There is only one store in the city I'll pick up some stuff at, but my kids jokingly call it the 'ghetto store' because everything is subpar," he said. "Some of these stores make the argument that they are catering to black clientele, so they have to make room to carry stuff like ham hocks and chitterlings, but that's just an excuse for bad quality.

"Here we are, trying to revitalize the waterfront and make this city whole again, but people who live here can't even find something decent to eat. Where's the justice in that?"

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...ETRO/707050349

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TIK

Inactive
Hey Gordon Alexander, here's an idea...tell your "peoples" to stop being thugs.

Problem solved.

Idiot.
 

mule skinner

Inactive
A lot of the Chaldean storekeepers have relocated to the suburbs. Most of the convenience stores in the suburbs are Chaldean owned.

They hire the 'local talent' in Detoilet to burn down their city stores and use the insurance money to finance the relocation.

Chaldean = Arab
 

OddOne

< Yes, I do look like that.
is anyone surprised by this, really? I mean, come on, if you have a city that's unsafe nobody that wants/needs safety will be there if they can avoid it. This is not a complicated equation.

oO
 

Oldotaku

Veteran Member
Internet radio is a wonderful thing. On KFYI in Phoenix, there are impassioned pleas from the state of Michigan to come there and open businesses. These ads are NOT on WHO in Des Moines. Could it be that Michigan is not wasting money on people who are close enough to actually check on conditions in their little bit of hell?

Also, when you have your customers stealing from you up front, your employees stealing from you in the middle, and the government at all levels stealing from you in the back office, why would you even consider opening a store there? The only way it would work would be to chain an armed guard to each cart to watch the cart and shoppers, search the employees on arrival and departure, and have a mob accountant cooking your books.

Thanks for the PC-speak translation Mule Skinner. I was wondering if there was some religious sect running the shops. In a way, I guess there is.
 

amarilla

Veteran Member
Chaldeans for the most part are Christian, Catholic to be exact.

I lived in Dearborn, less than a mile from Detroit. The Muslims run gas stations. There are some "supermarkets" run by Muslims in Dearborn but not with a full selection.

There was a supermarket on Warren Ave in Detroit when I lived there. The carts couldn't leave the store. There was a cage around the entrance so they couldn't. You had to leave the groceries and walk to your car with them. Wasn't a good place to buy much. In Mexicantown there was a supermarket also. Still limited selection but most of the basics. Can't remember the name of either to see if they're still in business.

A
 

Snipe Hunter

Veteran Member
As someone who's family used to own a place of business in the $hitty of Detroit I am familar with this subject ......one problem not addressed in the above artical issssssssss that IF you are white & own a business & NEED the Po-leese because someone is ripping you off or has fired a gun at you .........GOOD LUCK ....when ya call 911...because you are on your own. Now if you are defending your self after you have been attacked by the natives just hope they dont sue you for the assault that they started. Tons of fun in De - toilet LOL ....:whistle: I could go on but it dont matter big business knows better than to waste their money investing in a 3rd world hell hole like De- toilet..
 

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
CHITTERLINGS?!?!?!

Hell, I'm a Yankee, and even *I* know they're called "chitlins".

Geez.... :rolleyes:

As for the crime rate there, I doubt it's as simple as a racial issue. As most all of us know, unemployment rates are higher there than most anywhere else in the country, thanks to the death spiral of the US auto industry. What can you do when you have no job, no prospects, and have to feed your kids? You really only have two choices: pack up and move out, or turn to crime.
 

pixmo

Bucktoothed feline member
I'm so glad that I moved from the east side of the state back to the west side.

I try to avoid going over to Detroit if possible. Last time I went to Greektown a few years back I was thankful not to get robbed, but still had to face panhandlers which I swear were spread out every couple of blocks.
 

Snipe Hunter

Veteran Member
CHITTERLINGS?!?!?!


As for the crime rate there, I doubt it's as simple as a racial issue. As most all of us know, unemployment rates are higher there than most anywhere else in the country, thanks to the death spiral of the US auto industry. What can you do when you have no job, no prospects, and have to feed your kids? You really only have two choices: pack up and move out, or turn to crime.

OHHHhhhhh LOL........Dennis its not the wimmen & children ya have to worry about.......LOL........It is the Al & Jesie " the man owe's me" syndrone.......plenty of job prospects for them ....it is hard to employ someone who steals from ya day in day out & dont see anything wrong in what they are doing......:shr:...Also many dont speak understandable english & no matter how much ya pay them they dont try to improve themselves. Many of them LIKE living a slum tribeable lifestyle.
 

mule skinner

Inactive
The situation in Destryed, Michigan goes all the way back to the Coleman Young (aka known as Coalman or Soulman) administration. When he became mayor it was his avowed intention to drive out the whites. The black thugs were given almost carte blanche to further that end.

What the mayor seemed to overlook was that the principle taxpayers and business owners were white and after they left the thugs, who had become
accustomed to doing their own thing, wouldn't stop.

I think that Young thought that the blacks would step in and run the businesses etc. You know how that worked in Zimbabwe for Mugabe.

Detoilet is forever done. The infrastructure has been destroyed beyond all hope of repair and the infrastructure still functioning is not being maintained.

The disease that is the city is spreading to the near suburbs.
 

Snipe Hunter

Veteran Member
The situation in Destryed, Michigan goes all the way back to the Coleman Young (aka known as Coalman or Soulman) administration. When he became mayor it was his avowed intention to drive out the whites. The black thugs were given almost carte blanche to further that end.

What the mayor seemed to overlook was that the principle taxpayers and business owners were white and after they left the thugs, who had become
accustomed to doing their own thing, wouldn't stop.

I think that Young thought that the blacks would step in and run the businesses etc. You know how that worked in Zimbabwe for Mugabe.

Detoilet is forever done. The infrastructure has been destroyed beyond all hope of repair and the infrastructure still functioning is not being maintained.

The disease that is the city is spreading to the near suburbs.




mule skinner........ya speak the truth.
 

mule skinner

Inactive
Dennis,
I was just commencing freshman highschool when the 1943 race riot broke out in Detoilet. (Yeah, I'm that old.) There was no shortage of employment during the 2nd WW or in any of the riots since. I lived in and around that city until 21 years ago.

We used to call the later riots "TV riots" because they only lasted until all of the rioters could break into a store and steal two TVs, one for themslves and one to sell. You could buy a new TV on most street corners for $25 after one of the riots.

You had to be there, Dennis. PC sounds nice but it isn't reality.
 

ainitfunny

Saved, to glorify God.
There is a great Detroit diaspora of people who once made Detroit a great city. I left in 1963, my parents left in '69, my sister left an inner suburb in '99 and my niece and nephew are still trying to live in Roseville, an inner suburb. It IS a dangerous, dirty, corrupt and looming hollowed out hulk of a dead city.

You who never saw it at it's peak of grandeur have no idea of the magnitude of the loss to the nation and world. It just makes me sick to contemplate what once stood there.
 

mule skinner

Inactive
One day an archeologist will be poking around in the weeds and poison ivy and will discover the ruins of a once great city. He will wonder what happened to the obviously technologiclally advanced civilization that once was located there.

He will eliminate drought as a cause since the area sits on a river that joins two great bodies of fresh water. He will then think "Perhaps disease'. He will never know how truly accurate is that last theory.
 

momof23goats

Deceased
A lot of the Chaldean storekeepers have relocated to the suburbs. Most of the convenience stores in the suburbs are Chaldean owned.

They hire the 'local talent' in Detroit to burn down their city stores and use the insurance money to finance the relocation.

Chaldean = Arab

that has been going on for years, and your about right. the people are thugs, so no regular store wants to go into that environment. can't blame them. really.
 

momof23goats

Deceased
when yo ugo into Detroit, they are all armed!!!!!!!!!!legal or not. there are alot of guns in Detroit. I remember going to barber college there, amd had never heard of devils night, the night before holloween, listen these people burn down houses, and run the streets, it was horrible. thugs, detroit is loaded with thugs. the smartest thing for people to do, is stay out of detroit.
 

LXF71

Inactive
OK So reading the posts in this thread gave me an idea for a reality show, seeing they are all the rage these days. Take some of these folks from inner city neighborhoods representative to this story and give them a solid middle class job say in industry etc. The type of job that you couldnt bitch to much about its pay, say 16-17 dollars an hour. Then see what happens. I think it would be a great sociological and psycological study. And would settle a whole lot of debate one way or another.
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
OK So reading the posts in this thread gave me an idea for a reality show, seeing they are all the rage these days. Take some of these folks from inner city neighborhoods representative to this story and give them a solid middle class job say in industry etc. The type of job that you couldnt bitch to much about its pay, say 16-17 dollars an hour. Then see what happens. I think it would be a great sociological and psycological study. And would settle a whole lot of debate one way or another.

Heck, why not go for an NEA grant to do it or one from a psych or sociology endowment?
 

medic38572

TB Fanatic
As someone who's family used to own a place of business in the $hitty of Detroit I am familar with this subject ......one problem not addressed in the above artical issssssssss that IF you are white & own a business & NEED the Po-leese because someone is ripping you off or has fired a gun at you .........GOOD LUCK ....when ya call 911...et


Only to hear we are sorry all 911 lines are tied up at this time. Please wait for the next available operator or call back again....
 

mule skinner

Inactive
OK So reading the posts in this thread gave me an idea for a reality show, seeing they are all the rage these days. Take some of these folks from inner city neighborhoods representative to this story and give them a solid middle class job say in industry etc. The type of job that you couldnt bitch to much about its pay, say 16-17 dollars an hour. Then see what happens. I think it would be a great sociological and psycological study. And would settle a whole lot of debate one way or another.

Several years ago a steel fabricating company in Novi, Michigan, which is a small town NW of Detoilet, went into the 'inner city' offering jobs for more than most were paying at the time

They arranged for these people to be picked up by a bus to be transported to the job. They were not required to do anything exept show up. They were given alarm clocks and taught to set them.

The company then took the approach with these new hires, "Since you are going to be here all day, wouldn't you like to do some work to make the time go faster?" The conversation also got around to the new hires paying a nominal sum for lunch and the bus ride. They all quit. End of experiment.
 

Snipe Hunter

Veteran Member
OK So reading the posts in this thread gave me an idea for a reality show, seeing they are all the rage these days. Take some of these folks from inner city neighborhoods representative to this story and give them a solid middle class job say in industry etc. The type of job that you couldnt bitch to much about its pay, say 16-17 dollars an hour. Then see what happens. I think it would be a great sociological and psycological study. And would settle a whole lot of debate one way or another.


:whistle: ..........already been done .........if they dont work for the little 3 they work for the state or fed gov.........where their screwups are legand.......just try dealing with one at customer service.......IF ........ya can understand them :lkick: ....The detroit school system has more teachers with out teaching certification than those that do......& the state lets them get away with it because they can not hire enough with state certs because it is so UNSAFE.........
 

Fisher

Has No Life - Lives on TB
There was a young white couple on CNBC last week bragging about buying a dozen houses at a Detroit foreclosure auction for $2000 a piece. They said they going back to the auction the next day to pick up another dozen.

At the time I wondered how they could be going so cheap.....I guess this thread explains it.
 

Thyme

Under His Wing
I'm so glad that I moved from the east side of the state back to the west side.

I try to avoid going over to Detroit if possible. Last time I went to Greektown a few years back I was thankful not to get robbed, but still had to face panhandlers which I swear were spread out every couple of blocks.


There were the days when Greektown was safe and a great place to go, then walk on over to the Soup Kitchen and listen to blues.
I used to work downtown at a photography studio, walked to lunch everday with no trouble. I'm glad I got out of dodge before all hell broke loose.

It's just sad to see what's become of De'twa.
 

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
I have never IN MY LIFE, no matter where in the north OR south I've traveled, EVER seen it spelled that way.
 

Taz

Deceased
Well, I can't say that in my vast travels that I have ever seen it spelled anyway at all. But in reading books of the south, especially historical, its always spelled chitterlings. Same as 'chilrin' is spelled children.

Taz
 

mercyangel

Proud Memaw
I have never IN MY LIFE, no matter where in the north OR south I've traveled, EVER seen it spelled that way.

chit·ter·lings also chit·lins or chit·lings (chĭt'lĭnz) Pronunciation Key
pl.n. The small intestines of pigs, especially when cooked and eaten as food.


[From Middle English chiterling, probably diminutive of Old English *cieter, intestines.]


vict·ual /ˈvɪtl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[vit-l] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -ualed, -ual·ing or (especially British) -ualled, -ual·ling.
–noun 1. victuals, food supplies; provisions.
2. food or provisions for human beings.
–verb (used with object) 3. to supply with victuals.
–verb (used without object) 4. to take or obtain victuals.
5. Archaic. to eat or feed

Sorry!:whistle:
 

Tundra Gypsy

Veteran Member
Let em put a big 'ol Super Walmart in the area. Lots of groceries and clothing. It will provide jobs, and everyone will love it. Walmart will save the day for these folks. Hehe, just being mean. :)
 

Oilpatch Hand

3-Bomb General, TB2K Army
I have never IN MY LIFE, no matter where in the north OR south I've traveled, EVER seen it spelled that way.

Dat be da word, Boss. "Chitterlings," otherwise known as "chitlins," or pig intestines.

Knowing how to spell that word, however, has never sparked the desire in me either to buy or consume any. :lkick:
 

Phil Ca

Inactive
Back in 1961 my fiance who was from the PI started a one year study course at a hospital in Detroit. She had never flown before and had never needed to use a phone before. When she arrived she made a phone call to the schoolshe was to attend. She was told that there was no hospital transportation to bring her there. She was instructed how to use the city bus and after praying about it she ventured forth. She made it to the hospital and safety allright. She was concerned about all the people that looked as if they would eat her alive but she perservered.

I was enroute to my new base in Montana but went to Detroit first to check on her at her new location. I was appalled at the squalor of Detroit and wondered how anybody that had a choice could actually choose to live there. We went down to Woodward Avenue and did some widow shopping and in the plate glass I could see the reflection of local people looking at us. Many of the stares were that of curiosity but some were actually hateful.

We went to Cobo Hall for some sort of event and on the esplanade next door we found Red Nichols and his band playing. I doubt that the area would be considered safe for that now. when I returned to Montana she remained behind to study in Detroit until June the next year.

I went back to Detroit in April of 1962 and we were married at a church in Melvindale, a nearby suburb. We took a trip by borrowed car to Philadelphia where an old army buddy was storing some of my stuff in the basement of his photo studio. All to soon I had to go back to duty in Montana. She joined me soon after she graduated from the School of Medical Technology.

She described her stay in Detroit as one where she was constantly afraid to go out in public, other than to church and a small market across the street from the hospital. She ate most meals in the hospital cafeteria that was reached by a tunnel from her building to the next. Just before we were married she had to go to downtown to get her wedding dress and some luggage.

Over the years I have seen several films describing how Detroit has been going under. When I think that Michigan was once the largest builder of cars and trucks and how it is gone steadily down hill I am saddened.

There are parts of SF, Oakland and Richmond and ther places here in Kali that I will not drive though at any time of the day or night. Now in our current location there are some area I treat the same way due to the inundation of illegals.
 

SarahLynn

Veteran Member
Let me be the first to say it:

There really IS no increase in crime in Detroit.

We' re just hearing about it more as people finally feel safe and secure enough to report these incidents.

That's all.


:whistle:
 
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