Well, well, well...Gardasil's not "lifetime" after all

fruit loop

Inactive
We knew it, but it still burns my behind. All this insistence on vaxing girls at 12 "before they're sexually active" so they'd have lifetime protection and be "one less".....

This vax is extremely expensive (about $300 per prick) and if it wears off within 3 years - how many women will really be protected???

Remember how it was supposed to be LIFETIME? And they want to vax girls at 12 "before they become sexually active"?

The average girl becomes sexually active at 17. This vax will have worn off. If it's only good for three years.....and at $300 for the injections....how many women will REALLY be protected???


http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/condi...eut/index.html

Cervical cancer vaccine protects for at least three years
POSTED: 10:01 a.m. EDT, May 10, 2007
Adjust font size:
BOSTON, Massachusetts (Reuters) -- Merck's Gardasil vaccine protects against cervical cancer caused by a sexually transmitted wart virus for at least three years and also prevents lesions that can grow into vaginal and vulvar cancer, according to two studies published on Wednesday.

And a third study concluded the virus may cause a significant number of throat cancers in men and women, probably due to oral sex.

"Investigators in these trials have hit their mark soundly: The vaccine showed significant efficacy against anogenital and cervical lesions," Dr. George Sawaya and Dr. Karen Smith-McCune of the University of California, San Francisco, wrote in a commentary in the New England Journal of Medicine, where the studies appear.

"The vaccine also appears safe."

Gardasil protects against the four strains of the human papilloma virus, or HPV, that cause 70 percent of cases of cervical cancer.

One team of international researchers, led by Dr. Laura Koutsky of the University of Washington, studied 12,167 women aged 15 to 26 in 13 countries. Half got three doses of the vaccine and half got placebo shots.

The vaccine prevented pre-cancerous lesions in 98 percent of the women who had never been infected with the HPV-16 and HPV-18 strains over three years, Koutsky's team reported.

Dr. Suzanne Garland of the Royal Women's Hospital in Melbourne, Australia, and colleagues tested 5,455 women aged 16 to 24 and found the vaccine was 100 percent effective against the lesions that can develop into cervical, vulvar, vaginal and anal cancers.

Dr. Maura Gillison of Johns Hopkins University and colleagues studied 100 patients with oral or throat cancer and compared them to 200 healthy people and found those who had six or more oral sex partners had a high risk of the cancer.

They found evidence of HPV-16 in 72 percent of the tumors.

Controversial vaccine
The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has recommended the vaccine for 30 million women and girls aged 11 to 26.

But state proposals for mandatory vaccination have met with resistance, even though all allow parents to exclude their child.

"Such a slight burden on parents can hardly justify backing away from the most effective means of protecting a generation of women, and in particular, poor and disadvantaged women, from the scourge of cervical cancer," Alta Charo, a bioethicist at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, wrote in a commentary.

The vaccine does not work after a woman is already infected, and HPV is very common. By age 14 to 19, one-quarter of U.S. teens are already infected with at least one strain.

"Delaying vaccination may mean that many women will miss an opportunity for long-lasting protection," Sawaya and Smith-McCune wrote.

Cervical cancer is the second most common type of tumor in women and the leading cause of cancer deaths in some countries. Such tumors kill about 300,000 women worldwide each year, mostly in developing countries.

The lesions that lead to cervical cancer can be detected with a Pap smear and removed before they become tumors, and experts stress that vaccinated women will still need to get the smears regularly.

The vaccine's cost -- $360 for three doses over six months -- is too high for women in poorer countries where HPV is the biggest threat, some experts have noted.

GlaxoSmithKline is also developing an HPV vaccine called Cervarix. A study released in April showed it protects women for more than 5½ years.
 

expose'

The Pulse......
The vaccine prevented pre-cancerous lesions in 98 percent of the women who had never been infected with the HPV-16 and HPV-18 strains over three years, Koutsky's team reported.

:confused: Only 98% effective in women who had NEVER even been infected with the HPV virus??

Umm...What's wrong with those statistics.....?:hmm: :rolleyes:

I could say that the vaccine increases your chance of pre-cancerous lesions by 2%.....:whistle: especially if you've never been infected with HPV...
 

willowlady

Veteran Member
I've said it before

and I'll ask it again..... Why are they not trying to "require" or induce boys to get the vaccine? I sometimes wonder: New "no period" birth control pills, required vaccines for young girls -- and how many of these people will be able to reproduce without medical assistance in the years to come? Hmmm...
 

fruit loop

Inactive
They do plan to vax boys, Willowlady

The long-term plan is to vax all girls, and eventually expand to adolescent boys.

Forget it. No way they'll stick my kids with their poison
 

Troke

Deceased
"...Another example of the big pharmacuticals putting profits over well being of humankind. Just sick. .."

Well, I tell you this; if some guy comes up and says I got a chance to make some money providing a service that you might want, I will listen.

If some guy comes up and says I am going to do this good thing because I want to do you good, I grab my wallet and run for the door.

I can understand people who want to make money.

But people who want to do me good because it makes them feel good just naturally scare the H*ll out of me.

Odd they don't scare you.
__________________
 

fruit loop

Inactive
The link isn't pasting correctly

Found the problem. For some reason the link is getting chopped after I post it.

Go to CNN, click on Search CNN and type in Gardasil. It's there.
 

PolyEsther

Contributing Member
My 11 year old daughter just had a dr's appointment this past week and they *recommended* I have her vaccinated. They weren't going to tell me anything about it, they pulled a "just sign here and we'll give it to her"

I said ain't no way in hell until I read up on it - I've only seen the commercials on tv.

That's when they gave me the literature on it, which I so conveniently folded up into little pieces and threw somewhere in my car.

I HATE new vaccines, IMHO, there's not enough long term studies done on this crap to see if it actually hurts more than it helps. Just like that chicken pox vaccine that came out awhile back, now they are saying it wears off..... well isn't it more dangerous to get chicken pox when you're older? duh!

Sorry, I normally don't go off- except when it comes down to something that can/will potentially harm my children's health.
 

fruit loop

Inactive
You're right, PolyEsther....

..on all points. Here are a few more.

Another fear I have is that Gardasil will give women a false sense of security. Despite those commercials of the girls chanting, "One less, one less...."

There are over 200 different strains of the HPV virus. Gardasil only protects against three of them.

Gardasil is NOT lifetime.

Not every sexually active woman will get HPV.

Most women who get HPV successfully fight it off via their own immune systems.

Not every woman who DOES get HPV will get cervical cancer.

HPV is NOT the sole cause of cervical cancer. There are other causes. Merck is trying to convince people that if they just get HPV, eventually cervical cancer will cease to exist. UTTERLY FALSE.

I fear that women who get Gardasil will believe that they're safe, so there's no need for gyn exams anymore. How many women will die as a result from ovarian, uterine, and yes, cervical cancer???
 

marymonde

Veteran Member
http://www.nvic.org/PressReleases/pr62706gardasil.htm

"Merck and the FDA do not reveal in public documents exactly how many 9 to 15 year old girls were in the clinical trials, how many of them received hepatitis B vaccine and Gardasil simultaneously, and how many of them had serious adverse events after being injected with Gardasil or the aluminum placebo. For example, if there were less than 1,000 little girls actually injected with three doses of Gardasil, it is important to know how many had serious adverse events and how long they were followed for chronic health problems, such as juvenile arthritis."

According to the Merck product manufacturer insert, there was 1 case of juvenile arthritis, 2 cases of rheumatoid arthritis, 5 cases of arthritis, and 1 case of reactive arthritis out of 11,813 Gardasil recipients plus 1 case of lupus and 2 cases of arthritis out of 9,701 participants primarily receiving an aluminum containing placebo. Clinical trial investigators dismissed most of the 102 Gardasil and placebo associated serious adverse events, including 17 deaths, that occurred in the clinical trials as unrelated.

"There is too little long term safety and efficacy data, especially in young girls, and too little labeling information on contraindications for the CDC to recommend Gardasil for universal use, which is a signal for states to mandate it," said Fisher. "Nobody at Merck, the CDC or FDA know if the injection of Gardasil into all pre-teen girls - especially simultaneously with hepatitis B vaccine - will make some of them more likely to develop arthritis or other inflammatory autoimmune and brain disorders as teenagers and adults. With cervical cancer causing about one percent of all cancer deaths in American women due to routine pap screening, it was inappropriate for the FDA to fast track Gardasil. It is way too early to direct all young girls to get three doses of a vaccine that has not been proven safe or effective in their age group."
 

Wise Owl

Deceased
Pretty easy for me to just "say no" after nursing a dog with vaccinosis all last fall, winter and now spring.....

They can take their vaccines and shove them into their own arms and behinds....
Let them ruin "their" immune systems....I have told everyone I meet with my dog Luka in her handicapped cart, just exactly put her there. I have seen a lot of lightbulbs go off in their eyes, especially when I recite other side effects of vaccines....me thinks there are lots of vaccine damaged animals out there with the tell tale signs.....

I also think there are 99% of the human population with vaccine related illnesses and side effects walking the planet also......that is if they are not the ones who can't walk anymore.....

JUST SAY NO!
 

PolyEsther

Contributing Member
Thank you for that info marymonde- I was feeling bad about my decision for awhile, knowing there were a lot of little girls getting it. I would've felt terribly later on "if" my daughter got cervical cancer, and I would always be wondering if I could've prevented it because I was stubborn and wanted to know more.

I think I'll stand by my decision and "just say no."

I belong to a support group for people with epilepsy, and unfortunately there are a few members on there that have developed seizures as a result of early childhood vaccinations :(
 

patb

Inactive
And the stuff only protects for 3 of 200 strains? Sounds like flu vaccine, and I won't take that either.

Amazing how we no longer trust just because we've been betrayed so often.

Patricia
 

fruit loop

Inactive
MaryMonde is correct (as usual)

For more on vax poison, see my post on the pet board. That happened during my banned period. Three of my precious kittens almost died because of a vax cocktail. NEVER AGAIN.
 

baygoldbug

Inactive
We knew it, but it still burns my behind. All this insistence on vaxing girls at 12 "before they're sexually active" so they'd have lifetime protection and be "one less".....

This vax is extremely expensive (about $300 per prick) and if it wears off within 3 years - how many women will really be protected???

Remember how it was supposed to be LIFETIME? And they want to vax girls at 12 "before they become sexually active"?

The average girl becomes sexually active at 17. This vax will have worn off. If it's only good for three years.....and at $300 for the injections....how many women will REALLY be protected???.
Actually, nobody yet knows how long the vaccine will last. There might be long-term immunity but there is not yet enough data, since the vaccine is new. Only time will tell. It's quite possible that a booster vaccine might be needed (kinda like a tetanus booster shot).

- BGB
ps - Don't get me wrong. I share your concerns about the HPV vaccine. I'm just getting the facts correct.

.
 

baygoldbug

Inactive
:confused: Only 98% effective in women who had NEVER even been infected with the HPV virus??

Umm...What's wrong with those statistics.....?:hmm: :rolleyes:

I could say that the vaccine increases your chance of pre-cancerous lesions by 2%.....:whistle: especially if you've never been infected with HPV...
No expose,
It means that the vaccine only protects against 98% of the HPV causes of cervical cancer. Of the over 200 different strains of HPV, the vaccine covers Types 6, 11,16 and 18. Types 16 and 18 are the cause of 98% of cervical cancer. 2% of cervical cancers are caused by other HPV strains (especially Types 45 and 52) that are not covered by the Gardasil HPV vaccine.

- BGB
ps - Don't get me wrong. I share your concerns about the HPV vaccine. I'm just getting the facts correct.

.
 

baygoldbug

Inactive
I HATE new vaccines, IMHO, there's not enough long term studies done on this crap to see if it actually hurts more than it helps. Just like that chicken pox vaccine that came out awhile back, now they are saying it wears off..... well isn't it more dangerous to get chicken pox when you're older? duh!
Sorry, I normally don't go off- except when it comes down to something that can/will potentially harm my children's health.
I agree with you completely!!!

- BGB

.
 

baygoldbug

Inactive
..on all points. Here are a few more.

Another fear I have is that Gardasil will give women a false sense of security. Despite those commercials of the girls chanting, "One less, one less...."

There are over 200 different strains of the HPV virus. Gardasil only protects against three of them.

Gardasil is NOT lifetime.

Not every sexually active woman will get HPV.

Most women who get HPV successfully fight it off via their own immune systems.

Not every woman who DOES get HPV will get cervical cancer.

HPV is NOT the sole cause of cervical cancer. There are other causes. Merck is trying to convince people that if they just get HPV, eventually cervical cancer will cease to exist. UTTERLY FALSE.

I fear that women who get Gardasil will believe that they're safe, so there's no need for gyn exams anymore. How many women will die as a result from ovarian, uterine, and yes, cervical cancer???
FL, I agree with you on almost everything.

Gardasil protects against 4 (not 3) strains of HPV (Types 6, 11, 16 and 18). Types 16 and 18 are primarily responsible for cervical cancer. Types 6 and 11 are primarily responsible throat cancers and for non-cancerous genital condyloma (warts).

What data do you have that there are causes of cervical cancer other than HPV? I haven't been able to find any. Please give me some links. Thank you in advance for your help.

- BGB

.
 

fruit loop

Inactive
HPV is ONE cause of cervical cancer

There is a genetic link to cervical cancer, and women can get it even if they've never had sex. Exposure to radiation and possibly smoking.

Check out the CDC and American Cancer Society pages.
 

baygoldbug

Inactive
There is a genetic link to cervical cancer, and women can get it even if they've never had sex. Exposure to radiation and possibly smoking.

Check out the CDC and American Cancer Society pages.
FL,
Exposure to radiation and smoking are "predisposing" or "augmenting" factors to cervical cancer (they weaken the body and make the body susceptible to disease causing agents). They are not the "causative" factors for cervical cancer.

Yes, I've read the CDC and American Cancer Society pages. I helped to write a couple of them.

- BGB

.
 

Rescuedog

Inactive
As a woman living with HPV, I would run not walk to get the vaccine if I could and all three of my girls will get it (my son will too if he can). I was diagnosed with low grade SIL during my post partum check after the birth of my first baby. I spent the next three years under the care of an oncologist. I never got cancer but it was because I happened to have a great OB who refered me to a really wonderful proactive oncologist at a teaching hospital in NYC. I had excellent care. I was lucky. Think of the women who blow off PAPS for years-cervical cancer would be a death sentence for them.

Seventy percent of sexually active adults have HPV. Not all have the strains that cause cancer but that's playing Russian roulette in my opinion. I don't expect any of my kids to remain virgins until they're married and even if they did, there is no guarantee that their spouse did. So my kids are getting this vaccine.
 

fruit loop

Inactive
Another editorial

http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20070227-084731-7175r.htm

Inoculating
TODAY'S EDITORIAL
February 28, 2007


Merck & Co. pharmaceutical company came to its senses last week and stopped a lobbying effort to mandate its new vaccine, Gardasil. Many states and the District have mandated inoculations, and many others are considering requiring the vaccine -- which prevents the human papillomavirus (HPV), a sexually transmitted infection that can cause cervical cancer -- for 11- to 12-year-old girls. While many would characterize this vaccine as a cure-all cancer preventer, the truth is that it is anything but.
There are 40 types of HPV (200 different viral strains), some of which cause cervical cancer. Gardasil only prevents four types of HPV that cause 70 percent of cervical cancer cases. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Web site, "About 30 percent of cervical cancers will not be prevented by the vaccine." Therefore, even those who have been inoculated are still at risk. Furthermore, because Gardasil is still in its early stages, the length of immunity is not yet known.
That's not to say that Gardasil shouldn't be hailed as a great achievement in the fight against cancer. However, it should not be relied upon to completely prevent cervical cancer, nor should states add it to the list of mandatory inoculations for young girls.
HPV is only transmitted through sexual contact, unlike other diseases for which schoolchildren are required to get vaccines, such as polio and tetanus. The United States has always been on the forefront of vaccination studies and has rightly mandated many inoculations against such easily transmitted diseases. School-age children are simply not at the same risk for contracting HPV as they are for contracting, say, chicken pox. We urge the District and other states to rethink their position on mandating the HPV vaccine.
CDC Chairman Jon Abramson is also against mandating the HPV vaccine. First and foremost, Dr. Abramson said, HPV is not a very communicable disease. Also, as our front-page story said yesterday, "Dr. Abramson said a discussion about making the vaccine mandatory should not be had until states show the money is available to vaccinate every child, adding 'I don't see that yet.' " The three-shot vaccine costs $360. Where will that money come from?
The pharmaceutical industry has combated highly contagious (and life-threatening) illnesses as mumps, measles and rubella. Scientists in the 20th century were invaluable in ridding our country of such illnesses. The shift in the immigration population means we cannot afford to now turn toward unnecessary vaccination programs. We must continue to focus on keeping deadly communicable diseases at bay as a matter of sound public-health policy.
 

junerage

Contributing Member
I think I saw this here.. it still makes me laugh

"HPV stands for HELP PAY for VIOXX"

Anyway this is all such a shame. All the money spent launching a vaccine that may or may not work and might do more harm then good to thousands of little girls bodies, cause more problems down the road with autoimmune diseases, mess havox with reproductive organs when the money would be a million times better spent making sure all those girls know to protect themselves and get an annual PAP!!! Thats it. A simple non-invasive procedure that absolutly will not harm you.

It's sickening. Playing with little girls bodies for profit. Everyone so blinded by the words "vaccine" that they can't imagine it might be bad. Remember those babies that died a few years ago with the first Rotovirus vaccine? Ugh don't get me started...

Teach your daughters to get an annual PAP and you'll have nothing to worry about.

Edited to add .. heres a good quick read talking about the risks: http://www.planetc1.com/cgi-bin/n/v.cgi?c=1&id=1174623074
 
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baygoldbug

Inactive
........ the money would be a million times better spent making sure all those girls know to protect themselves and get an annual PAP!!! Thats it. A simple non-invasive procedure that absolutly will not harm you.

Teach your daughters to get an annual PAP and you'll have nothing to worry about.
June,
Your information is both poor and dangerous. Pap smears are notorious for giving both false negative and false positive results. 15 to 20% of Pap smears miss the presence of cervical cancer. At the other end, 10 to 15% of Pap smears over-diagnose normal cervical tissue, resulting in unnecessary colposcopy, biopsy, cryotherapy and other surgeries.

- BGB

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baygoldbug

Inactive
Junerage,

Here's from the National Cancer institute:
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Detection/Pap-test


Pap Smear Errors

Experts agree that the conventional Pap test has a certain irreducible error rate. That means that even the most conscientious laboratories will sometimes classify a normal smear as suspicious, or fail to detect abnormal cells.

Understanding Why Errors Occur

Factors that affect the accuracy of any Pap test include:
whether the healthcare provider performing the screening
- collects cells correctly
- collects an adequate cell sample
- prepares the microscope slide properly
and whether the laboratory technologist analyzes the cell sample accurately.

False negatives.

False negatives incorrectly indicate that the Pap smear is normal even though cancer or precancer is present. Inadequate sampling and improper slide preparation may be responsible for 90 to 95 percent of all false negatives. They can also result from failure to recognize or correctly classify abnormal cells

False positives.

False positives incorrectly indicate that cancer or precancer is present in a normal cell sample.

Between 10 and 60 percent of all Pap smears are incorrectly analyzed. False negatives, which are far more common than false positives, may be reported 20 and 45 percent of the time.

.
 

fruit loop

Inactive
Baygoldbug, read the facts

It is NOT effective for a lifetime. How many women will go and get their boosters every three years? Especially at $300 bucks per shot?

Let women decide for themselves if they want this or not.
 

baygoldbug

Inactive
It is NOT effective for a lifetime. How many women will go and get their boosters every three years? Especially at $300 bucks per shot?

Let women decide for themselves if they want this or not.
FL,

?????Where have I ever said the HPV vaccine gave lifetime immunity ???????

So far, the best we know is that the quadravalent HPV vaccine (Gardasil) gives immunity for 5 years. The bivalent HPV vaccine (Cervarix) claims to last for 7 to 10 years. The final immunity time periods for both vaccines is still left to be determined. After all is said and done, the immunity time period for both vaccines will likely be around 10 years or so. After 10 years, a "booster shot" will likely be needed to augment the first series of shots. The first series of shot cost around $300. The booster will more than likely be one shot, probably around $50 to $100.

Neither HPV vaccine is meant to give lifelong immunity. It's meant to protect the females (and, in the future, males) against PERSISTENT infections with HPV during the period when the cervical, penile and throat tissue cells are highly susceptible to invasion and damage by the HPV-DNA virus, and the body's own immunity system can't get rid of the virus. This is most true for women ages 10 to 30.

After age 45, most HPV infections are transient, and do not persist. For some reason we have yet to understand, new HPV infections after age 45 rarely cause cervical cancer. Possibly it's related to the decreased amount of estrogen after the perimenopausal period.

I'm in full agreement with you that each person (or their parents, in the case of children) should be able to decide whether or not to get the HPV vaccine. With that right, however, it becomes the responsibility of each person to get the best information possible before making their decision. Decisions made on hype, fear and misinformation tend to be poor decisions and have poor outcomes.

- BGB

.
 

baygoldbug

Inactive
Best estimates I've seen are 3 years.
FL,
I suspect that you don't look far enough for your information.
The official statement from the CDC is 5 years.

Here's the CDC statement:
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vaccine/hpv/hpv-faqs.htm

***How long does vaccine protection last? Will a booster shot be needed?***
The length of vaccine protection (immunity) is usually not known when a vaccine is first introduced. So far, studies have found that vaccinated persons are protected for five years. More research is being done to find out how long protection will last, and if a booster dose of vaccine will be needed .


Ongoing clinical trials have now shown that both HPV vaccines have a 98% effectiveness at preventing cervical cancer for 7 years. The studies have not yet been completed. New clinical trial suggest that the immunity will last for 10 years. Until the studies have been completed, the official immunity time period will remain 5 years.

- BGB

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