WisconsinGardener
Loony Member
I'd love to hear a first-hand description of sheep. God calls US sheep in the Bible. Here at TB2K, people are often called sheeple. From your experience - what are sheep like? Why are people like sheep?
Any shepherds here? What can you tell us about sheep?
- Thread starter WisconsinGardener
- Start date
WG.... it's not a compliment, believe me!!
Sheep are good at being sheep... but that means they are essentially rather dumb, herd (flock) animals whose chance of survival without a shepherd/guardian are pretty low.
Sheep will put their heads through a woven wire fence... and then starve to death, totally unable to comprehend the *opposite* movement (backing up) which would free them.
They are easily frightened... in most multiple sheep killings involving dogs or wolves, many of them never were touched... they die of sheer fright. They can rather easily be herded off a cliff.
OTOH, because of their very vulnerability, sheep often don't show any signs of weakness or injury until they are terminal. The old saying "a sick sheep is a dead sheep" is all too often true... but not so much because they give, up... more often because they don't show their illness until it's beyond the ability of anyone to help. A good shepherd needs to look for very minute signs of abnormality.
I suspect God sees humans, when he's referring to them as sheep - "Feed my sheep"- as rather frail, silly creatures who think they are smart enough to know what to do and where to go, but without a Shepherd, their chances of Life are extremely low. All too willing to follow an erring member of the flock, because... well, that's what sheep do. They follow the flock.
Those here on TB are more likely "goats". More independent, likely to fight back against predators, harder to herd...
LOL!
Summerthyme
Sheep are good at being sheep... but that means they are essentially rather dumb, herd (flock) animals whose chance of survival without a shepherd/guardian are pretty low.
Sheep will put their heads through a woven wire fence... and then starve to death, totally unable to comprehend the *opposite* movement (backing up) which would free them.
They are easily frightened... in most multiple sheep killings involving dogs or wolves, many of them never were touched... they die of sheer fright. They can rather easily be herded off a cliff.
OTOH, because of their very vulnerability, sheep often don't show any signs of weakness or injury until they are terminal. The old saying "a sick sheep is a dead sheep" is all too often true... but not so much because they give, up... more often because they don't show their illness until it's beyond the ability of anyone to help. A good shepherd needs to look for very minute signs of abnormality.
I suspect God sees humans, when he's referring to them as sheep - "Feed my sheep"- as rather frail, silly creatures who think they are smart enough to know what to do and where to go, but without a Shepherd, their chances of Life are extremely low. All too willing to follow an erring member of the flock, because... well, that's what sheep do. They follow the flock.
Those here on TB are more likely "goats". More independent, likely to fight back against predators, harder to herd...
LOL!
Summerthyme
WisconsinGardener
Loony Member
I'm writing a Bible study on John 8 (Good Shepherd). Those first-hand stories will add a lot of color. My dad raised turkeys (but not sheep) and would tell stories of how they could drown in heavy rain because they'd look up in the sky with their mouths open, and it wouldn't occur to them to close their mouths.
Do you raise sheep, Summerthyme? Sounds like you might.
Do you raise sheep, Summerthyme? Sounds like you might.
medic38572
TB Fanatic
BAbababaaaaaaaaaaaabaaabbaaWg... nope. Been tempted a time or two... I love fiber arts and would love to get into spinning, etc.... but I really, really don't like stupid animals. While people who love sheep will argue they aren't exactly "stupid"... I have issues with anything which needs constant watching, guidance and almost total care.
No, my first hand experience is through friends, and due to the fact that I seem to be the de facto "lay vet" who all the neighbors call for any ailing animal who they can't afford a "real" vet for, or who the "real" vet can't figure out.
I have to admit... delivering lambs is downright fun, compared to calves or foals. The latter two are hard work... lambing, with twins or triplets, is just a puzzle to sort out... the actual "labor" involved is mild because of the size difference.
And there isn't much cuter than a newborn lamb, either. But I think I'll continue to admire them from someone else's pasture!
Summerthyme
No, my first hand experience is through friends, and due to the fact that I seem to be the de facto "lay vet" who all the neighbors call for any ailing animal who they can't afford a "real" vet for, or who the "real" vet can't figure out.
I have to admit... delivering lambs is downright fun, compared to calves or foals. The latter two are hard work... lambing, with twins or triplets, is just a puzzle to sort out... the actual "labor" involved is mild because of the size difference.
And there isn't much cuter than a newborn lamb, either. But I think I'll continue to admire them from someone else's pasture!
Summerthyme
h_oder
Veteran Member
AMEN!
Amen! And without a whole lot of cause, it would seem!
Summerthyme
Summerthyme
and
Sheep don't look up unless they are bleating (think crying about something), and they have to be turned around from danger by a learned shephard. When frightened they will circle the wagons so to speak and run in circles untill they die. A smart shephard can cut one sheep out of the herd at a time until they are all gone, without disturbing the rest while they gleefully eat.
You dock a sheep (cut off the tail) cause they are unclean animals and will let the poop clog up in their wool until they die from being unable to crap properly.
Oh and they will follow any shephard. Not just the one that takes care of them. Just dumb sheep.
Sheep don't look up unless they are bleating (think crying about something), and they have to be turned around from danger by a learned shephard. When frightened they will circle the wagons so to speak and run in circles untill they die. A smart shephard can cut one sheep out of the herd at a time until they are all gone, without disturbing the rest while they gleefully eat.
You dock a sheep (cut off the tail) cause they are unclean animals and will let the poop clog up in their wool until they die from being unable to crap properly.
Oh and they will follow any shephard. Not just the one that takes care of them. Just dumb sheep.
They think Jerry Soringer is real.
Oprah *really* cares about them and their families as individuals.
That 'Good Morning America" and "Current Events" is news as well as the Weekly World News and 'Inquirer".
Everything they see on TV is real whether it's news, 90210 or Barney.
Commercials tell them what is cool and what to eat and how to smell.
The Govt *really* do know what's better for them.
Oprah *really* cares about them and their families as individuals.
That 'Good Morning America" and "Current Events" is news as well as the Weekly World News and 'Inquirer".
Everything they see on TV is real whether it's news, 90210 or Barney.
Commercials tell them what is cool and what to eat and how to smell.
The Govt *really* do know what's better for them.
mule skinner
Inactive
I raised sheep when we lived in Michigan. It was a most satisfying and pleasurable time. If you think sheep are always timid and gentle it is because you have never been attacked by a two hundred pound Horned Dorset Ram.
Sheep are what mankind has bred them to be. They have been domesticated and selectively bred to produce wool on most of their body. If this means that they have an excess of wool under their tail, it is because mankind bred them that way. If they are less than brilliant it is because mankind bred them that way so that a child could herd them.
When people belittle sheep they are making fun of one of man's oldest domestic animals that are the result of one of the oldest selective breeding programs. How stupid to deliberately produce it and then criticise the product.
Sheep are what mankind has bred them to be. They have been domesticated and selectively bred to produce wool on most of their body. If this means that they have an excess of wool under their tail, it is because mankind bred them that way. If they are less than brilliant it is because mankind bred them that way so that a child could herd them.
When people belittle sheep they are making fun of one of man's oldest domestic animals that are the result of one of the oldest selective breeding programs. How stupid to deliberately produce it and then criticise the product.
WisconsinGardener
Loony Member
Just for fun:
The Great Shepherd is there
And more sheep comics
And, to illustrate what Summerthyme mentioned:
450 sheep jump to their deaths in Turkey
The Great Shepherd is there
And more sheep comics
And, to illustrate what Summerthyme mentioned:
450 sheep jump to their deaths in Turkey
WisconsinGardener
Loony Member
Shepherds? Got any more sheep stories for us?
housemouse
Membership Revoked
Summerthyme, I spin, and love it. I also have the big burning desire for some sheep. My dad had a good sized flock on our farm where I grew up, but they weren't anything special. He tells me the worst thing about sheep is loose dogs running them to death.
From research on various breeds, I am quite interested in two... the Shetland and the Icelandic. Both are supposed to be hardy, intelligent, and good at lambing. Both have excellent fleeces for spinning, and come in a variety of colors.
Ya think I ought to pester the husband for a three-sided shed, and try a few?
Housemouse... I dunno... how much do you value your marriage? LOL!
Seriously... some people love sheep. Mule Skinner obviously did. I don't agree with him entirely.... cattle, dogs and horses were also domesticated and somehow managed to retain some intelligence. Sheep are natural followers... something I don't especially enjoy.
The BIG thing with sheep is keeping them in a fence. Woven wire can work... but takes a lot of maintenence, and has the difficulty of them getting caught in it. Several strands (like 5-7) of very HOT high tensile wire seems to be best. Put up properly it's not unattractive, and can be maintenance free for decades. It's also fairly decent deterrent for dogs and coyotes, but not perfect. And like your dad said, free roaming dogs and coyotes are really, really tough on sheep.
If you do consider it, you need to research fleece quality, etc, as well as the more common livestock concerns... will they breed out of season (if you care), how many lambs, etc...
Sheep and goats tend to eat *everything* (no, not tin cans.... but the labels off them maybe!)... a concern if you have any yew bushes on your property, or any valuable fruit trees or other plantings. OTOH, if you have a bunch of brush that needs cleared, they can help with that. Goats are better brush clearers than sheep, but sheep will nibble down new shoots of spreading woody plants often enough that they won't spread any farther.
There is also the problem of getting them sheared. If you only want a couple, I suspect it's going to be something you'll have to learn to deal with. Not the best way to get saleable fleeces, but certainly could give you plenty of fleece to spin. Unless you can find an oldtimer who will help you out... there aren't many shearers left, and it might cost more than the fleece is worth to get one to come for only a few ewes.
But hey... If you really, really want to do something. Go for it. Life is too short for regrets!
Summerthyme
Seriously... some people love sheep. Mule Skinner obviously did. I don't agree with him entirely.... cattle, dogs and horses were also domesticated and somehow managed to retain some intelligence. Sheep are natural followers... something I don't especially enjoy.
The BIG thing with sheep is keeping them in a fence. Woven wire can work... but takes a lot of maintenence, and has the difficulty of them getting caught in it. Several strands (like 5-7) of very HOT high tensile wire seems to be best. Put up properly it's not unattractive, and can be maintenance free for decades. It's also fairly decent deterrent for dogs and coyotes, but not perfect. And like your dad said, free roaming dogs and coyotes are really, really tough on sheep.
If you do consider it, you need to research fleece quality, etc, as well as the more common livestock concerns... will they breed out of season (if you care), how many lambs, etc...
Sheep and goats tend to eat *everything* (no, not tin cans.... but the labels off them maybe!)... a concern if you have any yew bushes on your property, or any valuable fruit trees or other plantings. OTOH, if you have a bunch of brush that needs cleared, they can help with that. Goats are better brush clearers than sheep, but sheep will nibble down new shoots of spreading woody plants often enough that they won't spread any farther.
There is also the problem of getting them sheared. If you only want a couple, I suspect it's going to be something you'll have to learn to deal with. Not the best way to get saleable fleeces, but certainly could give you plenty of fleece to spin. Unless you can find an oldtimer who will help you out... there aren't many shearers left, and it might cost more than the fleece is worth to get one to come for only a few ewes.
But hey... If you really, really want to do something. Go for it. Life is too short for regrets!
Summerthyme
VesperSparrow
Goin' where the lonely go
Weren't there some dogs last year in Bumfrigged, Somewhere -over -there- aways that jumped off a bridge to their deaths as well???
cleobc
Veteran Member
I keep a few sheep and have kept more and less in the past. Right now I have Jacob sheep and they aren't much trouble. My biggest hobby is training my dogs and entering sheepdog trials.
Sheep think and learn and can be taught things. Sheep have a lot of nice attributes. They are wonderful tools for range management since they prefer broadleaf species such as many weeds to grass. They are good moms. Most breeds offer both meat and fiber. It is very handy to use one dog to move 70-80 sheep, which would be more difficult with cattle. Flocking is an nice attribute for handling large numbers with minimal help.
People make fun of them because of their strong instincts to do what other sheep are doing, but this is also a survival trait.
And Rockwhy, it's shepherd, not shephard. Sheep plus herd, right?
Sheep think and learn and can be taught things. Sheep have a lot of nice attributes. They are wonderful tools for range management since they prefer broadleaf species such as many weeds to grass. They are good moms. Most breeds offer both meat and fiber. It is very handy to use one dog to move 70-80 sheep, which would be more difficult with cattle. Flocking is an nice attribute for handling large numbers with minimal help.
People make fun of them because of their strong instincts to do what other sheep are doing, but this is also a survival trait.
And Rockwhy, it's shepherd, not shephard. Sheep plus herd, right?
adgal
Veteran Member
I've raised sheep twice - the first time, the sheep came with the farm. 
And I was as dumb as they were. We just moved from the city - bought five acres and the sheep and chickens came with. Imagine the sheep's surprise when one rainy morning, I ran outside and tried to herd them into the barn because I didn't think that they should be outside in the rain. Finally got them in - but they weren't all too happy about it.
Then, we had a shearer come in and found out that in the long run - we couldn't make money on raising sheep (mostly because we had to buy their grain, hay and straw and have someone else shear them) - but they would be a very expensive hobby. We decided that five acres was enough of an expensive hobby and sold them.
Then, a friend had to relocate suddenly and needed to give away her herd of black Lincoln Sheep. It was years later, and just like labor - we forgot how bad it was. They were sweet sheep - but they all gave birth (8 ewes) at the end of January, beginning of February. And they all needed help - good thing I read all those James Herriot books growing up!!! We also found out that you pretty much had to be on lambing watch 24-7 – hard if you have another job.
After all that work - we ended up with ten or so delightful little lambs. But, we were quickly heartbroken when the lambs would do things like move behind the water barrel, get stuck and not think to move backward. We would find them frozen to death. We were not full-time farmers and did the best we could - but sheep were definitely a full-time job.
We also had some sheep escaping issues – but at the time we had a wonderful Old English Sheepdog who instinctively knew how to herd them up – much better than my earlier attempts!
The kids loved playing with the lambs and the ewes were the sweetest animals– but after a season we decided that we were not good shepherds and found a good home for them.
And I was as dumb as they were. We just moved from the city - bought five acres and the sheep and chickens came with. Imagine the sheep's surprise when one rainy morning, I ran outside and tried to herd them into the barn because I didn't think that they should be outside in the rain. Finally got them in - but they weren't all too happy about it.Then, we had a shearer come in and found out that in the long run - we couldn't make money on raising sheep (mostly because we had to buy their grain, hay and straw and have someone else shear them) - but they would be a very expensive hobby. We decided that five acres was enough of an expensive hobby and sold them.
Then, a friend had to relocate suddenly and needed to give away her herd of black Lincoln Sheep. It was years later, and just like labor - we forgot how bad it was. They were sweet sheep - but they all gave birth (8 ewes) at the end of January, beginning of February. And they all needed help - good thing I read all those James Herriot books growing up!!! We also found out that you pretty much had to be on lambing watch 24-7 – hard if you have another job.
After all that work - we ended up with ten or so delightful little lambs. But, we were quickly heartbroken when the lambs would do things like move behind the water barrel, get stuck and not think to move backward. We would find them frozen to death. We were not full-time farmers and did the best we could - but sheep were definitely a full-time job.
We also had some sheep escaping issues – but at the time we had a wonderful Old English Sheepdog who instinctively knew how to herd them up – much better than my earlier attempts!
The kids loved playing with the lambs and the ewes were the sweetest animals– but after a season we decided that we were not good shepherds and found a good home for them.
Raphaelle
Inactive
WG,
Summerthyme is right. The operative word is dumb. I have often contemplated our sheep and the theological insights they can provide for us as we read the Biblical comments on sheep. One thing that occurs to me is that if I am as dumb in God's eyes as this sheep is in mine, then probably a little humility is in order.
Fortunately, dumb is not all they are. They are sweet and charming (the females. The ram is not at all charming.) They eat whatever you want them to eat, produce wonderful fertilizer for your garden and , if you are so inclined, produce wonderful meat. We raise Katahdin sheep, a large hair sheep breed, and have had no trouble with them at all. No problems ever with lambing. We just wake up one morning and find a beautiful new addition to the flock. All in all, I think they are one of the best animal projects for beginners.
My husband is not quite so enchanted with them as I, maybe because he has to feed them every night!
For us they are part of the preparedness adventure, and so far they have been a success in that regard.
Raphaelle
Summerthyme is right. The operative word is dumb. I have often contemplated our sheep and the theological insights they can provide for us as we read the Biblical comments on sheep. One thing that occurs to me is that if I am as dumb in God's eyes as this sheep is in mine, then probably a little humility is in order.
Fortunately, dumb is not all they are. They are sweet and charming (the females. The ram is not at all charming.) They eat whatever you want them to eat, produce wonderful fertilizer for your garden and , if you are so inclined, produce wonderful meat. We raise Katahdin sheep, a large hair sheep breed, and have had no trouble with them at all. No problems ever with lambing. We just wake up one morning and find a beautiful new addition to the flock. All in all, I think they are one of the best animal projects for beginners.
My husband is not quite so enchanted with them as I, maybe because he has to feed them every night!
For us they are part of the preparedness adventure, and so far they have been a success in that regard.
Raphaelle
Holistic Granny
Inactive
my favorite animal
Just had to add my 2 cents to this topic.
I love sheep. They are one of God's most useful creatures. They give you wool. meat and milk - yes, there are dairy sheep.
Got my first sheep in the late '70's. Had mostly Romney and Suffolk which I bred for natural colored wool - (black, brown, gray). I learned to shear from a book and used hand clippers for a few years and then got electric clippers. I taught myself how to spin with a few pointers from and old cowboy neighbor who made saddle blankets out of raw wool.
I developed a little cottage business selling handspun by the skein and knitting socks and sweaters. Back then the rage here in Canada was heavy, indian patterned sweaters made by the Cowichan Indians on Vancouver Island. I made quite a few using my own handspun. Nothing made me feel more like a Proverbs 31, homesteading woman than to see my 4 kids and DH being kept warm with my socks, sweaters and toques. I only had my flock for about 10 years then went to work full time so had to butcher the sheep and buy my spinning wool from other farmers.
Back to WG's first question about people being like sheep - - -
All of their negative attributes were just like people - blind followers, greedy eaters, sometimes smelly, pushy and yappy. (DH gave me an ultimatum on on ewe becaused she baa'd all the time and drove him nuts - so we had lots of ground mutton!) Also had an arrogant, mean ram -he had beaitiful wool but was a jerk. (more ground mutton!) However, their positive attributes were also like some folks I know- beautiful, soft, tender, nuturing, good companion.
Just had to add my 2 cents to this topic.
I love sheep. They are one of God's most useful creatures. They give you wool. meat and milk - yes, there are dairy sheep.
Got my first sheep in the late '70's. Had mostly Romney and Suffolk which I bred for natural colored wool - (black, brown, gray). I learned to shear from a book and used hand clippers for a few years and then got electric clippers. I taught myself how to spin with a few pointers from and old cowboy neighbor who made saddle blankets out of raw wool.
I developed a little cottage business selling handspun by the skein and knitting socks and sweaters. Back then the rage here in Canada was heavy, indian patterned sweaters made by the Cowichan Indians on Vancouver Island. I made quite a few using my own handspun. Nothing made me feel more like a Proverbs 31, homesteading woman than to see my 4 kids and DH being kept warm with my socks, sweaters and toques. I only had my flock for about 10 years then went to work full time so had to butcher the sheep and buy my spinning wool from other farmers.
Back to WG's first question about people being like sheep - - -
All of their negative attributes were just like people - blind followers, greedy eaters, sometimes smelly, pushy and yappy. (DH gave me an ultimatum on on ewe becaused she baa'd all the time and drove him nuts - so we had lots of ground mutton!) Also had an arrogant, mean ram -he had beaitiful wool but was a jerk. (more ground mutton!) However, their positive attributes were also like some folks I know- beautiful, soft, tender, nuturing, good companion.
I don't have sheep, but my best friend has 19 that she keeps for wool and as pets. She does not breed them because she is a vegetarian (so are we). We all love her sheep. It is a mixed flock of wethers and ewes and she has several different breeds. She keeps 2 llamas and an elderly donkey with her sheep.
Recently my friend went to feed them in the morning and there was a large section of fence down - she uses electric fencing - and those animals were happily grazing INSIDE the fence. She has never had one caught in the fence and she has lived 5 different places with various fencing.
Different breeds respond to situations differently. Some sheep have stronger herding instincts than others, that is why people who have sheep dogs for trials prefer certain breeds over others.
My friends biggest problems have been feet and occasionally parasites. Some breeds seem to be more prone to hoof problems when in damp pastures and some pick up parasites more easily than others. A few have no problems at all.
As far as shearers, there are shearers around, I know of 4 off the top of my head and I know there are others. Two of my friends took a seminar in sheep shearing and are working at it professionally now. If you need a shearer just ask someone who has sheep or call your local cooperative extension. You can also ask at a feed store or vet's office.
Spinning is becoming more and more popular and as a result you will find more shearers that know how to shear for handspinners. We can be a fussy lot and won't buy a fleece that is badly shorn with a lot of second cuts or blood and skin. If you get to a sheep and wool show - there are some HUGE ones - you will see that there have to be people keeping sheep and people shearing them. It is a specialty market and has certain requirements and the people raising sheep for this market work hard at it. To a spinner there is nothing as exciting as a gorgeous freshly shorn fleece soft with lanolin and still warm from the sheep.
I agree with Holistic Granny, they are one of God's most useful creatures. I think chickens might be number one, though. They can forage for most of their food if they have to, they give you eggs or more chickens, they eat bugs that would otherwise eat you or your garden, they dig the earth for you and fertilize it and you can if you are so inclined eat them. They also will eat a lot of your garbage and turn it into food and fertilizer. You might also use the feathers for pillows etc.
So, while I am not a shepherd, I love sheep and that is a little of my experience with them.
spinner
Recently my friend went to feed them in the morning and there was a large section of fence down - she uses electric fencing - and those animals were happily grazing INSIDE the fence. She has never had one caught in the fence and she has lived 5 different places with various fencing.
Different breeds respond to situations differently. Some sheep have stronger herding instincts than others, that is why people who have sheep dogs for trials prefer certain breeds over others.
My friends biggest problems have been feet and occasionally parasites. Some breeds seem to be more prone to hoof problems when in damp pastures and some pick up parasites more easily than others. A few have no problems at all.
As far as shearers, there are shearers around, I know of 4 off the top of my head and I know there are others. Two of my friends took a seminar in sheep shearing and are working at it professionally now. If you need a shearer just ask someone who has sheep or call your local cooperative extension. You can also ask at a feed store or vet's office.
Spinning is becoming more and more popular and as a result you will find more shearers that know how to shear for handspinners. We can be a fussy lot and won't buy a fleece that is badly shorn with a lot of second cuts or blood and skin. If you get to a sheep and wool show - there are some HUGE ones - you will see that there have to be people keeping sheep and people shearing them. It is a specialty market and has certain requirements and the people raising sheep for this market work hard at it. To a spinner there is nothing as exciting as a gorgeous freshly shorn fleece soft with lanolin and still warm from the sheep.
I agree with Holistic Granny, they are one of God's most useful creatures. I think chickens might be number one, though. They can forage for most of their food if they have to, they give you eggs or more chickens, they eat bugs that would otherwise eat you or your garden, they dig the earth for you and fertilize it and you can if you are so inclined eat them. They also will eat a lot of your garbage and turn it into food and fertilizer. You might also use the feathers for pillows etc.
So, while I am not a shepherd, I love sheep and that is a little of my experience with them.
spinner
I like sheep too. They are sweet animals and that is a very important characteristic to me.
We seem to be so enamored with intelligence as though it brings with it happiness or self satisfaction. We are quick to call someone or some animal stupid. I guess this comes from our schooling where intelligence is paramount. That’s a sorry perspective. I think if we honored compassion over intelligence the world would be a better place.
I’ll take a sweet animal over a mean spirited but intelligent one any day.
As for intelligence I’ll go along with Will Rogers:
“Everybody’s stupid, just on different subjects.”
We seem to be so enamored with intelligence as though it brings with it happiness or self satisfaction. We are quick to call someone or some animal stupid. I guess this comes from our schooling where intelligence is paramount. That’s a sorry perspective. I think if we honored compassion over intelligence the world would be a better place.
I’ll take a sweet animal over a mean spirited but intelligent one any day.
As for intelligence I’ll go along with Will Rogers:
“Everybody’s stupid, just on different subjects.”
WisconsinGardener
Loony Member
I have no idea why I wrote John 8 above. 
For anyone looking for the story of the Good Shepherd, you'll find it in John 10 . Duh. Sorry.
I just read something really interesting. You know all those pictures of Jesus as the Good Shepherd? They almost all show Him with a lamb on His neck or in His arms.
Well, apparently, when a young lamb will continually stray away, the shepherd brings it back a few times, but if it still won't stay with the flock, he breaks its legs. Then, he carries the lamb on his neck until its legs are healed. By that time, there is such a bonding that has taken place that the lamb will never wander again but always stays close to the shepherd.
I wonder how many people have gone through a spiritual "leg breaking" in order to bond them to their Savior shepherd? It would seem terrible at the time - but the result would be loving the shepherd with an intensity not possible without the breaking.
For anyone looking for the story of the Good Shepherd, you'll find it in John 10 . Duh. Sorry. I just read something really interesting. You know all those pictures of Jesus as the Good Shepherd? They almost all show Him with a lamb on His neck or in His arms.
Well, apparently, when a young lamb will continually stray away, the shepherd brings it back a few times, but if it still won't stay with the flock, he breaks its legs. Then, he carries the lamb on his neck until its legs are healed. By that time, there is such a bonding that has taken place that the lamb will never wander again but always stays close to the shepherd.
I wonder how many people have gone through a spiritual "leg breaking" in order to bond them to their Savior shepherd? It would seem terrible at the time - but the result would be loving the shepherd with an intensity not possible without the breaking.
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ioujc
MARANTHA!! Even so, come LORD JESUS!!!
Why God calls people "sheep".....
Who always thinks the other side of the fence has greener grass? And when they stick their heads through, can't get out, and so they cry for help?? Who, usually, wants to do what everyone else is doing? Who will wander off and get "lost" away from the Shepherd, and need a helping hand getting off that cliff they so merrily jumped down on to....just to see what was there??
People and sheep!!
For a TOTALLY revealing look at the similarities between people and sheep, and why God is "The GOOD SHEPHERD," take a look at Philip Keller's book,
A Shepherd Looks At Psalm 23 it is EXCELLENT!!! And we really are like sheep, wheater you know it ........or not.
I had 175 Angora goats for about 5 years, and they are very similar to sheep, in behavior and attitude........those were the very BEST years of my life!!! And I would LOVE to do it again, but it takes money and time, both of which are in short supply here of late....
Who always thinks the other side of the fence has greener grass? And when they stick their heads through, can't get out, and so they cry for help?? Who, usually, wants to do what everyone else is doing? Who will wander off and get "lost" away from the Shepherd, and need a helping hand getting off that cliff they so merrily jumped down on to....just to see what was there??
People and sheep!!
For a TOTALLY revealing look at the similarities between people and sheep, and why God is "The GOOD SHEPHERD," take a look at Philip Keller's book,
A Shepherd Looks At Psalm 23 it is EXCELLENT!!! And we really are like sheep, wheater you know it ........or not.
I had 175 Angora goats for about 5 years, and they are very similar to sheep, in behavior and attitude........those were the very BEST years of my life!!! And I would LOVE to do it again, but it takes money and time, both of which are in short supply here of late....
Vere My Sone
Inactive
I don't think they're dumb.
We have brush sheep, like anything else, maybe the mutts are more hardy
We keep them in with electric and woven on different areas of the fence line.
They are allowed to come into the barn and go out to the pasture as they like.
Depending on the temp, sometimes they don't care about the rain, sometimes they do.
There was a scientific study I read about where they determined sheep can recognize 26 different sheep faces--so they recognize their flock mates
Ours do not respond to other people, so will not follow any shepherd. I don't think most sheep will listen to an unknown person.
There is that story where 2 shepherds were walking a road, moving their sheep, chanced to meet, so their sheep intermingled while they stood and talked a while. When ready to depart, they each called their sheep, and left with their sheep following, as they headed off in different directions. I have no doubt that's entirely possible.
Rams are just like any other livestock male. They have to be watched. NC had an elderly couple killed by a new ram a couple of years back. If dd hadn't been moving the flock with me one day, I'd probably have had the same fate.
My son had a ewe, who got her leg caught in a fence running from a dog. She couldn't walk on it, so we put her in a stall in the barn and cared for her. We'd get her up and walk her around on 3 legs a couple of times a day, for exercise. After about a month of this, I told dh, that was about it. He went out, stood there and looked at her, told her if she didn't get up and walk, we were going to eat her. She got right up and never even limped. That's been about 6 years ago, and she's still alive and happy.
We have brush sheep, like anything else, maybe the mutts are more hardy
We keep them in with electric and woven on different areas of the fence line.
They are allowed to come into the barn and go out to the pasture as they like.
Depending on the temp, sometimes they don't care about the rain, sometimes they do.
There was a scientific study I read about where they determined sheep can recognize 26 different sheep faces--so they recognize their flock mates
Ours do not respond to other people, so will not follow any shepherd. I don't think most sheep will listen to an unknown person.
There is that story where 2 shepherds were walking a road, moving their sheep, chanced to meet, so their sheep intermingled while they stood and talked a while. When ready to depart, they each called their sheep, and left with their sheep following, as they headed off in different directions. I have no doubt that's entirely possible.
Rams are just like any other livestock male. They have to be watched. NC had an elderly couple killed by a new ram a couple of years back. If dd hadn't been moving the flock with me one day, I'd probably have had the same fate.
My son had a ewe, who got her leg caught in a fence running from a dog. She couldn't walk on it, so we put her in a stall in the barn and cared for her. We'd get her up and walk her around on 3 legs a couple of times a day, for exercise. After about a month of this, I told dh, that was about it. He went out, stood there and looked at her, told her if she didn't get up and walk, we were going to eat her. She got right up and never even limped. That's been about 6 years ago, and she's still alive and happy.
WisconsinGardener
Loony Member
Bumping this very old thread because I am updating my John 10 Bible study - and because, with all that's going on in the world, sometimes it's good to remember that in God's eyes, we really are just sheep. I used some of your comments in my study! Here it is, if you're interested: The Good Shepherd
DustMusher
Inactive
My brother, the dentist who bought a farm when his kids were small was given a lamb for Easter. Lamb grew up to be a very large RAM - stayed around the house working as a lawnmower. We were sitting at his kitchen table talking when we heard Freddie the Ram baaing and bellowing. When we looked we all took off to help him - thought he had broken a leg -- he had been sleeping and then couldn't stand up. He'd get about 1/4 of the way to a stand and then collapse and scream.
We got out there to help him and then we saw what the problem getting up was. He had one rear foot planted firmly in the middle of his scrotum -- pinning himself to the ground. Never even tried to move the foot.
To me THAT is dumb.
DM
We got out there to help him and then we saw what the problem getting up was. He had one rear foot planted firmly in the middle of his scrotum -- pinning himself to the ground. Never even tried to move the foot.
To me THAT is dumb.
DM
ainitfunny
Saved, to glorify God.
video RABBIT HERDS SHEEP http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCn9TGXJbpw&feature=related
dragonslayer2001
Inactive
do not come to Montana and claim to be a sheep. There are still, I am told, very old cowboys who can not move to fast now ........... so when they see a sheep............... you don't wanna know.............
davidinthewilderness
Inactive
I once had a nice colored sheep named Hashamayim (heavens). I shared her with a friend, we got her at the Black Sheep Fiber show in Oregon Hasha was a sweet girl with a knack for trouble. She was never where she was supposed to be. One night after a terrible storm Hasha was not around. My friend went to look for her and a tree had fallen on her. She had a short but sweet life. But >sigh< in this life I am a goat shepherd.
Did you know?
Most of Israel’s leaders who followed the Holy One were shepherd’s and they are oftentimes referred to as the Seven Shepherds of Israel.
That the Hebrew for Psalm 19 translates more precisely as, "He gently places me in green pastures". A good shepherd gently (but sometimes with force) gently place a sheep. I would much rather be gently placed than thrown around with brute force. Green pastures are meant as a resting place, a place of repose.
Sheep are meant to browse in the wilderness, the midbar (root-dalet bet, reish), with good pasture a meadow. Sheep browse at an even height on the ground while goats will jump up on their back legs and get whatever is in reach. The wilderness meadow and the Temple are a Gathering Place. When sheep are driven or lead and they become excited will be noisy. And so the Gathering Place is a noisy place which is a good thing. Silence (unless for purposes of being undetected) is usually found for the silenced slave or an animal found in a poor stewardship condition, this is true in the animal kingdom as well. Micah 2:12, Isaiah 5:17
The root dalet, bet, reish is the same word for the Holy of Holies in the Temple in Jerusalem, symbolic of the gathering and resting place of the wilderness pastures. I think of the many gatherings of Jesus and His followers and in Acts 2 when the Disciples were at the Temple and received the Holy Spirit.
The Hebrew word root for "to hope" K-V-H is the same root word as to gather: Genesis 1:9 "Let the waters below be gathered together into one place". In Jeremiah 21:22' the word 'true' and 'Pasture' is juxtapositioned. We get an awesome sense of the Ingathering, Hope, Deliverer (Jeremiah 14:8), and the Living Water (Jeremiah 17:13).
Sheep need clean water and will muddy the water supply unless there is sufficient current to scour the bottom and carry away the sediment. Shepherds therefore engage in water stewardship which is not the same as Agenda 21, Ezekiel 34:18-19, Proverbs 25:25-26, Jeremiah 2:13. In the arid land of Israel violent storms rubble though creating treacherous waters, grand waterfalls if only briefly, dangerous eddies and deep wadi’s (like a canyon) which the shepherd must carefully watch his charges. Rain can fall so intensely that it is caught in the wadi’s which are tapped by various cisterns and in 1 hour of rain it will provide water for 2 years. This brings an even greater appreciation for the still water imagery of Jesus.
Trails in the desert can be confusing as sheep rarely look where they are going. Following the path of least resistance they follow the engraved path worn into the hillsides by generations of sheep before themselves. Though sheep have followed other paths into serving foreign gods, idolatry, hopefully most will return to the True Shepherd. The convoluted paths of the hilly country differ greatly from the pastureland where sheep rarely get lost. The good news is that in this hilly country circles the sheep back, tshuva, repentance, to return to the right and True path.
When Jesus was talking about being the Gate, there is really a Sheep Gate, one of the twelve gates into Jerusalem. After the return from the Babylonian Exile, the reconstruction of Jerusalem began at the Sheep Gate: "Then Eliashib the high priest rose up with his brethren the priests and built the Sheep Gate; they consecrated it, and hung its doors" (Neh 3:1). The gate was apparently situated at the northeastern corner of the northern wall. Previously known as the Gate of Benjamin (Jer 37:13; 38:7), its new name apparently derived from a sheep market accessible through it. Close by was the Bethesda pool, where Jesus healed a sick man (John 5:2-9). The Sheep Gate is in the North-Eastern corner of the Temple Courtyard. It would be in the area of the woman’s courtyard. Sheep & lambs as well as other sacrifices would go through this area to altar for sacrifice. Israel’s enemies are always noted as coming from the north and as sin drives us away from God this gate only makes sense. The Sheep Gate is the next gate up from the Eastern Gate where Messiah will walk from the Mt. of Olives into the Temple area to establish His government and reign. There are many striking parallels but that would get really off topic.
Celeste
Did you know?
Most of Israel’s leaders who followed the Holy One were shepherd’s and they are oftentimes referred to as the Seven Shepherds of Israel.
That the Hebrew for Psalm 19 translates more precisely as, "He gently places me in green pastures". A good shepherd gently (but sometimes with force) gently place a sheep. I would much rather be gently placed than thrown around with brute force. Green pastures are meant as a resting place, a place of repose.
Sheep are meant to browse in the wilderness, the midbar (root-dalet bet, reish), with good pasture a meadow. Sheep browse at an even height on the ground while goats will jump up on their back legs and get whatever is in reach. The wilderness meadow and the Temple are a Gathering Place. When sheep are driven or lead and they become excited will be noisy. And so the Gathering Place is a noisy place which is a good thing. Silence (unless for purposes of being undetected) is usually found for the silenced slave or an animal found in a poor stewardship condition, this is true in the animal kingdom as well. Micah 2:12, Isaiah 5:17
The root dalet, bet, reish is the same word for the Holy of Holies in the Temple in Jerusalem, symbolic of the gathering and resting place of the wilderness pastures. I think of the many gatherings of Jesus and His followers and in Acts 2 when the Disciples were at the Temple and received the Holy Spirit.
The Hebrew word root for "to hope" K-V-H is the same root word as to gather: Genesis 1:9 "Let the waters below be gathered together into one place". In Jeremiah 21:22' the word 'true' and 'Pasture' is juxtapositioned. We get an awesome sense of the Ingathering, Hope, Deliverer (Jeremiah 14:8), and the Living Water (Jeremiah 17:13).
Sheep need clean water and will muddy the water supply unless there is sufficient current to scour the bottom and carry away the sediment. Shepherds therefore engage in water stewardship which is not the same as Agenda 21, Ezekiel 34:18-19, Proverbs 25:25-26, Jeremiah 2:13. In the arid land of Israel violent storms rubble though creating treacherous waters, grand waterfalls if only briefly, dangerous eddies and deep wadi’s (like a canyon) which the shepherd must carefully watch his charges. Rain can fall so intensely that it is caught in the wadi’s which are tapped by various cisterns and in 1 hour of rain it will provide water for 2 years. This brings an even greater appreciation for the still water imagery of Jesus.
Trails in the desert can be confusing as sheep rarely look where they are going. Following the path of least resistance they follow the engraved path worn into the hillsides by generations of sheep before themselves. Though sheep have followed other paths into serving foreign gods, idolatry, hopefully most will return to the True Shepherd. The convoluted paths of the hilly country differ greatly from the pastureland where sheep rarely get lost. The good news is that in this hilly country circles the sheep back, tshuva, repentance, to return to the right and True path.
When Jesus was talking about being the Gate, there is really a Sheep Gate, one of the twelve gates into Jerusalem. After the return from the Babylonian Exile, the reconstruction of Jerusalem began at the Sheep Gate: "Then Eliashib the high priest rose up with his brethren the priests and built the Sheep Gate; they consecrated it, and hung its doors" (Neh 3:1). The gate was apparently situated at the northeastern corner of the northern wall. Previously known as the Gate of Benjamin (Jer 37:13; 38:7), its new name apparently derived from a sheep market accessible through it. Close by was the Bethesda pool, where Jesus healed a sick man (John 5:2-9). The Sheep Gate is in the North-Eastern corner of the Temple Courtyard. It would be in the area of the woman’s courtyard. Sheep & lambs as well as other sacrifices would go through this area to altar for sacrifice. Israel’s enemies are always noted as coming from the north and as sin drives us away from God this gate only makes sense. The Sheep Gate is the next gate up from the Eastern Gate where Messiah will walk from the Mt. of Olives into the Temple area to establish His government and reign. There are many striking parallels but that would get really off topic.
Celeste
I raised sheep for 14 years, Tarrghees. Definitely the personalities of sheep are breed and individual specific. My Tarrghees were very healthy animals and generally were easy to manage including easy birthing. I have a neighor who calls "Border Leicesters" - "Border Idiots", but then she raised Suffolks.
I would own them again and do a better job this time around.
IMO the sheep reflect the shepard. If the shepard is gentle and sweet so will be the sheep. If the shepard is severe, then the sheep will be very skitish and fearful.
And a 200# ram charging you WILL seperate your ribs from your sternum pretty quickly. My dog saved me from being further brutalized on the ice by a ram that should have gone to the butcher a lot earlier.
I would own them again and do a better job this time around.
IMO the sheep reflect the shepard. If the shepard is gentle and sweet so will be the sheep. If the shepard is severe, then the sheep will be very skitish and fearful.
And a 200# ram charging you WILL seperate your ribs from your sternum pretty quickly. My dog saved me from being further brutalized on the ice by a ram that should have gone to the butcher a lot earlier.
Also, as a general rule I found that people tend to pick domestic animals that in some way reflect their own temperments. Cattle people and sheep people and horse people are different, and in some ways I find similarity between keepers of animals and the animals they keep. Cattle people tend to be slower reacting, more physical, sometimes more callous. Sheep people tend to be more sensitive, caring, nurturing. And horse people tend to be ...more horsey
cleobc
Veteran Member
I am still raising sheep, but since the original posts in this thread, I have switched to hair sheep (Dorper/Barb/Katahdin) and am now switching again with a registered Scottish Blackface flock with planned additions of white faced wool sheep to crossbreed to Blackface rams. I train my sheep dogs with these sheep but we also have hay ground and pasture now and the sheep help maintain that. We would like to have cattle also but don't have enough pasture, and we keep three horses, so that would make us cattle/sheep/horse people but most assuredly dog people, with nine Border Collies.
davidinthewilderness
Inactive
Ohhh, I forgot and sheep are the safest animal to eat body-wise..... If your body is undergoing some trauma eating a diet of lamb and water is healing, nutritious, but boring. But you get the added bonus of loosing lots of weight fast no matter how much you eat. Lots of cancer patients and immune deficient people eat this diet during different procedures.
Celeste
Celeste
Grammytomany
Inactive
We had 110 of the beautiful ones. Must have been something terribly wrong with them too because they were not dumb. I never had a fence that could keep them in, if they wanted out. Hubby raised them, I was only the ohhhhh and ahhhhh one in the family. But I did raise triplets whose Mom wouldn't take care of them. And, when they were grown and had blue ribbons from the fair, the vet said that they all should have died. He had a hard time thinking that I actually made it with them. The hardest part is that it is darned cold when it is lambing season. We had a lambing room (nursery all set up with heat lamps). Yes, we spoiled them and they were downright beautiful. They came when called. they knew when it was time to eat and I once did an experiment with two that had "special" feed. they were smaller, so hubby fed them separately. I had one with a red tub for her food and another with a yellow tub for hers. I switched their placement one night, and sure enough, they swapped to their "OWN" bowls. Yes, we loved them and have beautiful blankets to this day.
After a few years I re-arranged the lambing time to March from the typical Dec-Jan. Also had them sheared in Oct-Nov rather than April/May. The march birthing allowed for fresh pasture for nursing moms to have the best nutrition just as the lambs were gaining the most weight. The Fall shearing provided 2-3" of wool on the moms when birthing to reduce the spoilage of the wool from manure and hay chaff during he late pregnancy through birthing to partation of maturing lambs. Tarrghees are a dual purpose white face breed with very nice wool and great bodies (for meat).
WisconsinGardener
Loony Member
Awwwww!