Elderberry Extract Recipe for H5N1

Elderberry Extract Recepie (Dried Elderberries - Sambuca Negra)


Note: This information has been garnered from several forums, and herbal experts. I'm NOT an expert, but I did go to a Holiday Inn once!

Fill a qt. canning jar 1/3 full of dried elderberries (1/2 full if using fresh berries)
fill the jar with cheap 80/90 proof unflavored vodka or brandy,
cap jar, shake, and store in a cool dark cabinet for 7-10 days.

Strain berries, and fill jar until full from another jar so each jar contains 1 quart of extract - you'll need 3 quarts per person for treatment, and a spare quart for preventative dosages.

For those that need more info - here is a link to the
documentation and lab studies on the stuff
http://www.herbalgram.org/files/pdfs/elderberry-scr.pdf

Link to site to buy dried Elderberries by the pound

http://www.herbalcom.com/

Go to Products, Scroll down to the E's and select
Whole Elderberries @ $5.30/pound.
A pound makes 3-4 quarts of Elderberry Tincture.

I've read the report. There are two recommended dosages.
One is for "prevention" which is 2 tablespoons / day.
The other one is "intensive" which corresponds to 2 tablespoons 4x / day.

In either case, you're going to go through a LOT of tincture.
That 4 oz bottle of Sambucol is only one day's worth at the
"intensive" dosage!!!

Here's some of "the math" on this.

The short answer is that if you wait until you have the
flu then take the elderberry as a treatment
(assuming 2 tablespoons 4x / day for 10 days)
you're going to need over a quart per person.

To make Ederberry Syrup for children and recovering Alcoholics:

Gently heat extract over lowest heat that barely boils mixture to cook off Alcohol, which boils way below 212- so take it easy, heat hurts the alkaloids in the extract!

When all alcohol is gone, measure remainder and add enough cooled simple sugar syrup to replace lost volume. Only make what you can use in 1-2 weeks since it doesn't store well in the refrigerator.

My preferred dosage for adults is 1oz 3 times per day until 1 quart has been administered. Children should be dosed based on body weight.

Fleataxi

Fleataxi asked me to post my "elderberry syrup" recipe here, and to check his post. The only thing I'd change as far as his tincture recipe is that you *may* want to use a higher proof vodka if you are using fresh berries. Be sure you aren't using anything stronger than 80 proof for dry berries, because you need the water content to help rehydrate them. For fresh berries I'd probably use 160 proof vodka, personally.

This recipe is one I made up after buying both Sambucol and a nice product sold by Todd's Honey Gardens in Vermont. It's based on standard principles for herbal syrups, and can be made either with 10% alcohol as a preservative which allows for lower amounts of honey or sugar, or as a saturated syrup without any alcohol at all.

(FYI- the Honey Gardens' product is wonderful, but it contains echinacea. For most "normal" influenzas and viral problems, that's great. For Avian Influenza,... it may not be a good thing, because of it's immune system stimulation properties. That is why I wanted a recipe for just a plain elderberry syrup)

I take fresh (or frozen) elderberries and crush them in a stainless steel or heavy enamelware kettle. Add a TINY bit of water (just enough to barely cover the bottom of the kettle to keep the berries from sticking) and heat it gently over LOW heat, stirring the whole mash up until it's no warmer than 150°. The heat helps release the juice from the berries, but I'm not certain of whether high heat would possible deactivate the antiviral properties. So I'm erring on the side of caution...

I either run the whole mash through my Vitamix (BRIEFLY... you don't want to grind up the seeds) at this point, or, if they seem to have been quite macerated already, just pour them into a jelly bag and let them drain. I've found that I get the most yield by putting them in two fine mesh bags and then putting the whole thing in my cheese press and pressing it. A cider press would work well, too. But if you don't have anything like that, simply taking the bag of mash, and twisting it tightly in your hands will get most of the juice out.

Anyway, once you've got your juice, you need to add enough sugar to preserve it. I've found that a equal ratio of sugar to juice by volume is sufficient, IF YOU WILL ADD ALCOHOL to help preserve it for storage. If you have an objection to any alcohol in the mix, you then need to use a 5:3 ratio of sugar to juice... this will give you a saturated syrup high enough in sugar so it won't spoil at room temperature.

If you prefer using honey, you need to use a slightly higher ratio.... approximately 11/4 cups of honey to every cup of juice. This is because of the water content already in the honey. Or, if you want to use pure honey without any added alcohol, you need a 2:1 honey/juice ratio.

Anyway.... stir in the sugar or honey into the warm juice, until it's all completely dissolved. If you've used the lower 1:1 ratio, at this point you need to add some alcohol for preservative. I've used Blackberry Brandy quite frequently for this... hoping to get some of the astringent and stimulant effects of the blackberry in the mix. If you use brandy, you need to add 3-4 ounces per pint of syrup.

If you simply want the alcohol as a preservative, you can add 3 ounces of 100 proof vodka, or a little more than 3 tablespoons of 160 proof vodka. (we can't get pure grain alcohol here... if you can, you can use 1 1/2 ounces of that instead).

Stir it gently, and decant it into STERILIZED jars or bottles. Use the same techinques you'd use when canning jelly- except this won't be hot enough for you to expect the seals to seal completely. As long as you sterilized the jars and the lids before bottling it, it shouldn't be necessary for it to seal.

LABEL IT!! You always think you'll remember what is in those jars, or when you made it. Wanna bet!? LOL! Seriously- make sure you put the date and at least whether or not there is anything but elderberry and sugar in there.

Store it in a cool, dark place (dark is especially important if you are using clear glass jars).

Summerthyme

Since half of my workers are sick/deathbed from the flu, I've decided to jump on the Elderberry syrup train.

I like the looks of the vodka recipe. But am going to try the recipe with honey also for the children. Thanks fleataxi and summertyme.

My question is what kind of shelf life are we looking at. Weeks, months, years?

( http://www.herbalcom.com/store.php3?list=cats&session=b1d8d300fe851026d49da3933ee7b249 )

baw... decades, for tincture stored in dark bottles or a dark, cool place.

Several years for the syrup with the 10% alcohol for preservative. (although the honey may crystalize after awhile, and you'll have to warm it up to get the crystals out... or not. Won't hurt the effectiveness any if you don't, as long as you can get it out of the bottle)

And at 1-2 years if you make the honey syrup without any added alcohol at all. I say "at least" because should last pretty well indefinitely, but if you inadvertently let any mold spores in, there's a slight chance that it might find a way to grow slowly on the very top or edges. Saturated syrups are pretty durable, but I prefer the syrup with the small amount of alcohol for longest life (for a syrup)

(Edited to add they all should be kept in the dark, and as cool as practical. You don't need to refrigerate them, but after you open a bottle of syrup, it probably wouldn't hurt)

Summerthyme

I hope it's ok to kinda sorta in a round about way, hijack this thread a bit. The information I'm seeking does relate to the whole process, so please don't sick the thread police on me. I'm interested in purchasing bushes to have a regular yearly supply. Can someone tell me about how much I could expect to get out of 1 average size bush? That would help me determine how many to purchase. Also, are there any tricks or problems with elderberry bushes? THANKS FOR THE SUGAR RECIPE!!! I'm not sure how I missed it before, I have SO much bird flu info, but I did miss it. I appreciate the one with the small amount of alcohol just for preserving.

Pam....That's not as easy as it sounds. You want at least 2 bushes for best results (cross pollination). Two mature wild bushes (the kind I'm familiar with) can give you several 5 gallon pails of berries (on the stems). They pick off to a lot lower volume, of course, but I'd guess you can plan on a couple of gallons of berries per bush easily- *when they're mature*

Second year bushes aren't going to produce anything like that of course. The first few years, you'll probably only get a couple to a few cups of berries per bush.

And these bushes are VERY susceptible to birds... in fact, one way I manage to get a good crop of blueberries is to make sure I've got plenty of wild elderberries for the birds to eat instead.

Aside from that, I don't think the bushes require any special care. They probably don't like extreme wet feet OR drought conditions. They will tolerate some shade, but produce better in full sun.

Hope that helps,

Summerthyme

Pam... to add to Summerthyme's comments, I've found that location on these bushes is everything.

I have probably 6 mature elderberry bushes just outside my bedroom window, which is heavenly in early summer when they're in bloom because the beautiful light fragrance comes with the breeze in the window. They also make a lovely privacy cover for the window. I suppose not being in full sun has a lot to do with my not getting any fruit from them.

I planted those bushes in 1991 because I happen to be an elderberry pie fan, but I've never gotten one berry off of the plants. For the most part, we head out to known fence rows where there are elderberry bushes growing and get them there (with permission from the farmers).

It isn't hard to locate a group of elderberry plants in early summer along a roadside especially when they're in bloom, but they're often sprayed by the road crews and you don't want those for sure.

It might be changing with the sudden popularity of elderberry, but for the most part, around here, nobody really wants to play with them as plucking them can be labor intensive and messy.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned elsewhere is that when working with the raw fruit, you'll often notice a brown grease-like scum that gets on utensils. At first I thought I had somehow gotten hold of berries that had been sprayed and I threw out a whole year's crop because of it. The next year I kept track of the grove of bushes and they hadn't been sprayed and I still got the scum. Stuff sticks like iron to everything it touches.

When plucking them off the stems, ripe berries will be black. Not so ripe berries will be wine color and occasionally you'll find a green one. Avoid the green ones and if they accidently get in the bowl, carefully pick them out --like I said, they're labor intensive.

Once they are plucked, I wash and drain them and put them in quart bags and chuck them into the freezer. From there they can go into tinctures, pies, muffins, etc.

Elderberrys are very easy to propagate from cuttings. They will readily root if placed in a jug of water. Just make sure the one you use for cuttings has good berrys.

Thanks for your responses. Actually, I had hoped to plant some bushes along the south side of my house, under two bedroom windows. (ranch style house) First I had hoped the sun would be better and also, we keep our windows open and I had hoped the noises from inside the house would help deter the birds a bit. Maybe I'll plant some bushes over by a utility pole and let the birds have all they want.

Summerthyme,
I have been looking at your recipe as well as the one form Fleataxi. This is probably a stupid question, but if I were to use frozen elderberries would you recommend the 160 proof or something less for the tincture? Would it work as well as the dried berries?
Thanks
Bill

Not stupid at all.

The thing to remember is water content. Frozen berries are "wetter" than dried (obviously).

I've got a great little book called "Handmade Medicines" by Chrisopher Hobbs. It's out of print now, but worth looking for. It has tables in the back specifying the various ratios of 190 proof alcohol and water for a large variety of herbs. The differences are based on whether or not the active principles in the herbs dissolve in water or need alcohol or some similar solvent. "Bitter" principles and "resins" are some which require alcohol or a strong acid to dissolve properly

Unfortunately, he doesn't include fresh elderberries in his table, but I believe they require little in the way of alcohol to really extract the good stuff. You need enough alcohol in the tincture to preserve it... for fresh berries, I wouldn't use anything lower than 100 proof. For dried, you can get away with 80 proof.

He suggests a 40/60 ratio (40% of the 190 proof alcohol) for dried berries. That comes out to just about 80 proof... (which confirms my instinctive guess above- written before I realized he DID have elderberries in the table... hmmm....)

It's possible frozen berries would work *better* than dried- depending on how the dried berries were dried and stored. You can ruin a lot of herbs by drying them in direct sun for too long, or using too much added heat. Berries probably are much less fragile than many herb leaves, though.

My preference is order is fresh berries, frozen, dried, and then any type of canned juice.

Hope this helps,

Summerthyme

Summerthyme,
Thank you so much for the information. I was able to find a new copy of the book "Handmade Medicines" at an online retailer and it is on the way. The area of herbal medicines has fascinated me for a long time, but have not had time to study it. Hopefully, I will be able to and also aid people in the tough times ahead.
Thanks again

Bill

Good! You're going to like that book. It's a bit light on details of what each herb does (you'll need other references for that if you want to get into more than the basics), but it's wonderful on the various "how tos" of making tinctures, decoctions, tinctures, glycerites, etc...

About the only thing he doesn't cover (which I found a little odd) is syrups. You may also want to look for a book by James Green called "The Herbal Medicine Maker's Handbook"

There are others which are also good. The Hobbs book is the only one which I've seen which had that basic chart on how much alcohol to use for various tinctures, though.

I'll warn you- it can be an addictive interest and hobby. I got started 30 years ago and half my library is about herbs...

Summerthyme

Summerthyme,
Interestingly, as I was searching for the Handbook of Herbal Medicines on Amazon, I ran across the Herbal Medicine Makers Handbook and Making Plant Medicines. I ordered both of those as well. As I get going in this, I will probably have lots of questions. I hope you won't mind.

Thank you so much for your help so far.

Bill

Bumping this thread for the comming season.

Earlier this year after reading many post here as a lurker I found some Elder Flowers C/S Organic- Sambucus Nigra from a local health food store. The products origin is Croatia. My question is should I waste the cheap 80 proof vodka on this stuff or should I simple wait till I get some of the berries instead?

I have about a dozen bottles of SAMBUCOL on hand which are dated out to 12/08. I am just looking for something that will keep, and it looks like the dry berries and cheap Vodka will fill that order.

Can the Vodka evaporate at room temp without spoiling the concoction; or will I have to put the works in a double boiler type contraption? Are the evaporative points of 80 proof and the chemical or enzyme degrading point even in the same ball park?

Or should I leave the alcohol in the mixture. Vodka is not my cup of tea. Unless I'm drinking to my health I guess. Now Tequilla-- and lime with a beer chaser thats well... another story. All of a sudden I feel like Mexican food now!

LAB... elderflowers do have medicinal properties, but NOT the ones you want for a bad 'flu. (they make a good tea to sip when you have a cold/sore throat, but do not have the influenza fighting ability the berries have.)

You can tincture them... but since they work as well as a tea, it's optional.

You definitely need to leave the alcohol in the mixture! "Tincture", by definition, is an alcoholic extract of the active principles of a particular herb. Some herbs can be extracted by other means... vinegar, or glycerin, etc. But although it's sometimes recommended to put your tincture in a hot cup of tea, and allow the alcohol to "go off", I have serious questons about the effectiveness of the resulting "medicine".

If you want to avoid alcohol (and as I've posted before, I have major reservations about people using high proof elderberry tincture several times a day as a preventative and then driving to work!), my syrup recipe above is really simple to make. It sounds complicated because of the way I wrote it up in sort of narrative fashion... but essentially you get some elderberry juice, measure it, add enough sugar or honey to make a saturated syrup, and then add a bit of alcohol to preserve it. The latter is optional, but makes a MUCH longer lasting syrup.

Boiling off the alcohol from an elderberry tincture is particularly a bad idea because it's believed that high heat tends to deactivate the antiviral principles in the berries...

Summerthyme

I've made a couple of 'moonshine' runs to Montana to get high grain alcohol to make our elderberry extract. This will be our first year to make the stuff. And speaking of bushes, we only have one puny one and the bird's eat everything. I'm going to try and purchase some bushes or get DH to figure out how to make more....lots more!

Summerthyme,

I am right now in the process of grinding up about 3 gallons of berries which have been in my freezer for a month.

The first time I did this, I used fructose, only 3/4 cup per cup of juice and kept it refrigerated. It was fine. Last year, I used sugar, but I have a mental block about pouring that much sugar into anything, and fructose has its problems, too, so this year I'm going to use honey. I can get it locally for .70 /lb so it's not too bad, cost wise.

Every year, I take the old batch of refrigerated syrup, turn it into wine and start with new berries.

IF I keep it refrigerated, do I still need to use a 2:1 ratio of honey or will
a 1:1 do? Either way, it'll make a nice batch of mead next year if I don't use it up. Thanks

The Elderberry Advise

Summerthyme- Thankyou for the info. I will keep the flowers for tea and obtain the dried berries for the 80 proof "remedy"...

RedRose... I DO understand the issue with adding that much sugar!

I *think* you can probably get away with adding less honey if you refrigerate it, however, I'd be concerned about the potential for mold growth... eventually. The lower the sugar content, the more chance for mold growth. You could eliminate that potential if you added the 10% alcohol... but then you wouldn't be able to get it to make mead, I suspect!

All I can say is... try it. If you see a "haze" on the top of any of the containers, yank them, skim it off, heat them up (to kill off any lingering spores/mold) and start your mead with it then.

I think if you're very careful about using clean (or sterile, if possible) containers to store the syrup, it will keep fine.

Summerthyme

Thanks, Summerthyme.

I like to keep some non alcoholic stuff on hand for people who don't want wine. It mixes well with seltzer water and works great for the common cold.

I have 9 quarts of berries in the freezer that DH is going to make wine from. We usually have a glass of wine with supper every night during flu season. He makes VERY good wine.

I also have about 15 lbs of dried berries for backup if I need them. They also make decent wine after you rehydrate them.

Mushroom

LAB,
Thanks for the bump on this one--will definitely add elderberries to my preps for the winter.
My question is will you get the same health benefits from eating the berries on cereal for instance?
I am diabetic--so alcohol and sugar are not in my diet for the most part. Any other solutions?

I have taken a candle warmer and placed a pint jar of tincture on it and reduced down to 25% of original. It is a very slow process, about 24 hours. It doesn't get as hot as a simmer, just very warm. It was an experiment. Kids absolutely hate elderberry anything. I was trying to make it concentrated. Any input on this from anyone? Waste of time? Did I destroy antiviral properties?

Well I picked up ten one pound metal foil bags of Dried Organic-

Black Elder Berries (Sambucus Nigra) I guess I will do some research tonight on the Prep and Bird Flu threads so I know how far my Sambucol will go during flu season.

Well excuse me now while I don my lab coat and note pad. It's off to the threads.

I think I'm going to try this - new at it.

Have a naive question: can I put these quart jars filled with the tincture into a hot water bath to seal them? Or would that kill it?

Or is the alcohol enough so it won't spoil?

When I've canned my garden produce, I've used some jars up to five years old. . .

Thanks, mamaklip

Might I add something to this thread.

Never harvest your plants for berries along a road side. The plants will contain the chemicals of exhaust. Go at least one half mile back.

When harvesting plants. Plants that are wild, not watered with sprinklers will have a much higher potency. They will also be hardier and these are the plants herbalists look for when wild crafting.

If you want a non alcoholic tincture, make your tincture as usual with the alcohol. 2/3 to 3/4 plant or berry material. Then top off with vodka. When you first do this check the level every day and add alcohol if needed. When making an alcohol tincture it needs to age no less than 6-8 weeks, shaken 2 times a day and kept in the dark.

To strain, carefully pour just the liquid off into a strainer first. Then do the process again...letting the liquid stand for an hour and pour through a muslin cloth then a coffee filter. It takes a while but it removes all gunk and plant material called Menstrum.

Lets say you have 4 ounces of tincture left. Now pour in 4 ounces of food grade glycerin. Cook down with the least heat possible until you have 4 ounces of liquid left. Now you have a glycerin tincture with maybe 5% alcohol left. Cap and store in a dark closet. This tincture will last 2 years.

If you want to keep your tincture longer, store the tincture before adding the glycerin and do the processing when needed. Your tincture will last this way 4-5 years.

Mamaklip... if you've made TINCTURE (berries soaked in high proof vodka or other alcohol) it's gonna keep nearly forever. Absolutely no need to "can" it, or anything else. Keep it in dark glass bottles (brown/amber are best for excluding light) or else keep your jars of tincture in a dark cupboard or in a paper grocery bag or cardboard box. Just don't leave it in clear bottles in the light.

On other preparations... quite honestly, the jury is still out. There is no consensus as to whether/how much heat damages the antiviral properties of the berries. There is at least some solid information that *high* heat does damage it. I consider boiling temps to be "high"... I wouldn't water bath syrup. Then again, I've used "canned" elderberry juice (sold for winemaking) for making my syrup and it's been as effective as any other batch. So... it may not be as big an issue as some think.

For folks who absolutely can't do sugar or alcohol... your best bet is to get elderberry juice (either juice fresh berries, reconstitute dried berries and press them to get "juice" or else- last resort- buy one of the gallon cans of juice they sell in winemaking supply stores). Figure 1 tablespoon per dose... and figure out a way to freeze it in *no more* than one or two day's worth of volume. If you figure taking it 4X a day (reasonable for a nasty, but not life threatening influenza or other virus) then freeze it in Dixie cups or something which hold about 2-4 ounces. Once frozen, put the containers into heavy freezer bags and pull as much air out as you can. It should keep for a year at least, especially if you have a regular freestanding freezer- it's likely to have a bit shorter life in the freezer section of a refrigerator, due to temperature fluctuations.

You could make ice cubes with the juice, and simply thaw one or two and pour the thawed juice into a bottle- keep it in the fridge while you're using it up.

The juice is effective in itself for influenza. It's just difficult to keep for long, hence marketing a long lasting product hasn't been possible. I wonder about whether or not the process used to make "shelf stable" juice concentrates would work on elderberry, or if it uses enough heat to damage the anti-viral properties.

Summerthyme

summerthyme said:

Mamaklip... if you've made TINCTURE (berries soaked in high proof vodka or other alcohol) it's gonna keep nearly forever. Absolutely no need to "can" it, or anything else. Keep it in dark glass bottles (brown/amber are best for excluding light) or else keep your jars of tincture in a dark cupboard or in a paper grocery bag or cardboard box. Just don't leave it in clear bottles in the light.
Summerthyme

Click to expand...

I've made some and stored it in a small fridge in a mason jar in the back so, will keeping it in a refrigerator be OK for the tincture (a small one with no light when the door opens)?

OK, Herbie gently suggested I was over the top when I said "tincture lasts nearly forever". She's right. And- as usual with these things- there is some disagreement among experts as to how long it will last *at maximum potency*. (The stuff won't "spoil" any more than your bottle of Johnny Walker Black will!)

Herbie says she was told at various facilities which manufacture tinctures that "3-4 years" is max... and to "toss any tinctures over 3 years old". Now... my issue with that is (Herbie- please clarify your position here, too... we need all the expertise we can get, and people can then make up their own minds) we've seen this before- with the various pharmaceutical companies. They have "use by" dates within a year or two on their products... but independent testing has shown potency and effectiveness often lasts 5X that or more.

The other part is that companies have to assume the *worst* storage of their products... legally and practically, they have to. If you store your tinctures in clear glass mason jars, half full and in the bathroom where the temperatures and humidity fluctuates daily... they are likely to lose potency within 3 years.

If you store them in small, dark glass containers with little headspace (no room at the top for oxygen and the resulting oxidation) in a place where temps are consistently cool... 10 years may be conservative. I have a tiny bottle of lobelia tincture that I made in 1992. It still will turn your tongue numb and tingly if you put a drop on it. It's absolutely still potent.

But yes, "forever" is definitely an exaggeration. However... if you've got a choice, between storing a few pounds of dry berries or herb plus the vodka, planning on making your tincture fresh next year when you run out of this year's run... or making the tincture now and storing it... there is NO question. Tincture lasts a lot longer than any other way of storing herbs.

Summerthyme

summerthyme said:

But yes, "forever" is definitely an exaggeration. However... if you've got a choice, between storing a few pounds of dry berries or herb plus the vodka, planning on making your tincture fresh next year when you run out of this year's run... or making the tincture now and storing it... there is NO question. Tincture lasts a lot longer than any other way of storing herbs.

Summerthyme

Click to expand...

The dried berries will be a small experiment used in preventative maintance dose this year using 80 Proof Vodka, The Sambucol will be kept on hand for the flu and the remainder of berries will go into storage along with SAMBUCOL rotated in and out by date. This way Plan A can be backed up by stores of Plan B.

Thanks Summerthyme. I learned this both herbally and commercially. Pharmaceuticals are something else. Most pharm's come in tablet form. And powders degrade. That is why the sell by date is listed.

When I had the store I was able to visit the companies...on them. I also have been studying since 1980 and learned so much more when I had the herb store. I had a special room in the back where I stored bulk herbs. The tinctures I kept in the rear of the store away from the light.

Michael Tierra, Candis Cantin, Rosemary Gladstar, Michael Moore are the foremost Herbalists in the U.S. They were the teachers of the 60's and this is where most of this generation of herbalists come from. There are others like James Greeen. These Herbalists formed the American Herbalists Guild to set a standard for Herbalists across the U.S.


Every one of them suggest tossing tinctures or using them in teas after 3 years for maximum potency. You see they start out as plant material. Not like pharmacists that extract one active ingredient to make a medicine. In the case of making herbals, the whole plant is used which consists of....in the case of St.John's Wort over 100 active ingredients. The whole plant works together. Now when you consider how fragile plants are, you also can expect that the plant material extracted in tincture has much of the same reactions.

The rule of thumb for dried materials is;
Powdered herbs last at the maximum of 6 months if not flash frozen.
Cut and sifted, this is flowers, leaves and stems. 6 months.
Roots will last one year.

This is why I was known to have the most potent herbs around. I never kept something past it's time.

After all I used them too.

Now homeopathics would last some 3 years. Syrups-two years if made with honey. Longer if made with molasses.

One can keep berries in a vacuum sealed pouch for up to 2 years and then make your tinctures. I only tincture what I need.

Now there is another method called Medicated Oils.

This process is infusing herbs in olive oil. Now I have found this to last almost 3 years. I make St. John's Wort oil as well as infuse comfrey and lavender. Calendula also. I like to keep 16 ounces of each and then use them in my creams and lotions. Also for first aid and St.John's for nerve pain in a salve.

Thank you, Summerthyme. I'm not usually able to get on the board until late at nite, so sometimes I'm afraid I won't get answers!!

I'm confused now. I was going to use the recipe with 1/3 full dried berries & the rest vodka, etc.

Am I making a tincture or a syrup or something else?

I'm trying this because I keep about 10 bottles of Sambucol on hand thru the winter, but at $14 each, gets expensive. And I'd much prefer using something that I know hasn't been contaminated by whatever the latest "poison" is!!!

Thanks, mamaklip

You're making a tincture. A tincture is an herb soaked in alcohol (usually an alcohol/water mixture... 100 proof vodka is 50% alcohol and 50% water). A glycerite is made the same way as a tincture, but with glycerin as the menstruum (the menstruum is the liquid you soak the herb in). You can also use vinegar as your menstruum... but alcohol is the most potent solvent for most herbs, so it's preferred unless you have reasons to avoid it.

I switched to making a syrup for our "elderberry flu medicine" simply because it's far more universally accepted, you can give it to kids without worrying about them getting too much alcohol, you can drive after taking a dose without worrying about what you'll blow on a breathalyzer if you get pulled over!!, and it's proven (for us and a few dozen people I've given it to) to be as effective as the tincture.

The shelf life is probably shorter than pure tincture (although the syrup from Todd's Honey Gardens, which was partly what I was imitating when I was working up my recipe has "use by" dates for 3 years beyond when they sell it), but I make fresh every year anyway.

Summerthyme

Thank you again, summerthyme, for the education (elderberry 101!).

Guess I'll get to ordering berries and printing recipes! Hope this works! I'm a good canner, except for jelly, but can burn any brownie I mix up! Wish me luck!

Blessings, mamaklip

How fast the small dried berries absorb the 80 proof vodka

I started my first one quart batch using a metal top mason jar. It is amazing how fast the clear vodka turned purple within 24 hours. I'll probably go to Cosco this weekend and pick up enough vodka to finish off the remainder of the one pound metal bag of dried black elderberries. The other nine pounds I will keep or process within two years as noted above.

How many quart batches should one pound of dried berries go while filling 1/3 full? Looks like at least three wouldn't you think.

You should not ever use a metal top for any tincture. The metal will react with the alcohol. If your do not believe me...think for a moment. I know no one listens to me on this thread. This is why alcohol is stored in glass with a plastic coated lid.

All Herbalists and formulators never use any metal lids or containers. It is dangerious.

Herbie... I don't know why you think no one is listening to you! Sheesh...

As far as the metal... I have a much bigger problem with VINEGAR reacting with metal... it will eat through a plain metal top in no time.

But I use enamel lined canning lids for *temporary* tops without any problem on tinctures... although most of the time I just use the plastic "storage lids" you can find that fit either wide mouth or regular canning jars. They are great.

But I agree that metal containers aren't anything I want my tinctures, salves or anything else in contact with. I also do NOT want to use plastics... alcohol, as a "universal solvent" has too much chance (IMHO- probably no proof out there) to leach out some of the uglies from plastic, especially over a period of time.

I've got a great collection of assorted glass jars and canisters aquired over the years from Dollar Stores, plus I bought a dozen cases of amber bottles in 4 ounce and 8 ounce size awhile go. All my tinctures get decanted into those glass bottles as soon as they've finished.

Summerthyme

OK so I started this batch on October 10th.

Herbmountain said:

You should not ever use a metal top for any tincture. The metal will react with the alcohol. If your do not believe me...think for a moment. I know no one listens to me on this thread. This is why alcohol is stored in glass with a plastic coated lid.

All Herbalists and formulators never use any metal lids or containers. It is dangerious.

Click to expand...

So it's been sitting there for four days now. It is your standard Mason jar plastic coated metal lid. I am going to go tomorrow the 15th and pick up three or four quart sized glass mason jars with the external metal latches and the rubber gasket. That should take care of my problem.

I'll keep the first batch, it will only be 5 days old when I change it out. Then I will start two new batches. I am "saving up" my green glass beer-bottles of Grolsch. They have a tension spring steel hasp and a plastic gasket with a hard plastic cam down plunger top. Then I will store this in a box out of light and heat.

Thanks Herbmountain and summerthyme for catching my post.

LAB. If it is plastic coated that is OK. No need to toss your tincture. As long as no metal touches the tincture.

I like doing my tinctures in those fancy old liquor bottles. You know the ones with the glass dew drop top? I think this would ba a canister? Not sure but it is all glass.

A couple of years ago I did one half gallon of Valerian Root for a friend in this bottle....the whole house smelled like the root. Note to self. Do it outside next time. LOL