Why do you support Israel?

Why do you support Israel?

  • Religion: they are God's chosen people and opposing Israel will incur the wrath of God.

    Votes: 64 29.6%

  • Loyalty: they are friends to the United States.

    Votes: 14 6.5%

  • Sympathy: victims of holocaust and now of terrorism.

    Votes: 2 0.9%

  • Common Enemy: we are both in a fight to the death against Muslim terrorists.

    Votes: 73 33.8%

  • I generally do not agree with Israel's policies and tactics.

    Votes: 37 17.1%

  • I agree or disagree with Israel's tactics and policies depending on the circumstances.

    Votes: 26 12.0%
  • Total voters
    216
The Flying Dutchman

The Flying Dutchman

Deceased
=

rescath;

My first reaction to this thread - is to move it to T.I.O. Because just as sure as shooting, it will become a 'sling fest'..........

People who have found fault with Israel's latest activities in Lebanon have been viciously attacked by people whom I consider to be generally reasonable.

<i>Please describe what you consider as reasonable?</i>

I'm extremely curious about out why people support Israel so strongly. Please just pick the primary reason that you support Israel.

<i> As compared to the Islamic Radicals?</i> YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME HERE!
Click to expand...
 
R

rescath

Inactive
Just as a note: I do not want this to devolve into yet another debate about the current situation or about specific incidents. I just want to know WHY people support (or don't support) Israel.

I personally judge actions by the circumstances and by moral criteria. For the most part, however, I have disagreed with Israel's policies and activities, so I voted that way.
 
R

rescath

Inactive
You beat me to it by a couple minutes, Dutchman. I do not want there to be any debate about specific incidents or policies, nor even about which of the poll options is best. I am just interested in the data. I simply stated my position on the subject and this will be my last post on the thread. I ask others to respect this as well.
 
DarkImbolc

DarkImbolc

Membership Revoked
You might better ask:

Do you support Israel because:
1) The Apollo Affair
2) The USS Liberty
3) The Franklin case
 
S

Samson

Inactive
I appreciate a people who can be given land that was deemed useless and not cherished in anyway by any nation or people, and turn it into a stabile, thriving country. This is something that the backward nomadic inhabitants that wandered in and out of that parcel of land could never do because they were to busy fighting amongst themselves.

Our own lives are built on the principles of hard work and ownership of your accomplishments. Why would we not back a society that not only thrives but employs and improves the lives of the very people that hate them for no other reason than jealousy at their accomplishment
 
DarkImbolc

DarkImbolc

Membership Revoked
This is something that the backward nomadic inhabitants that wandered in and out of that parcel of land could never do...
Click to expand...

Below is a picture of Palestinian olive groves that are being destroyed by Jewish settlers. Agriculture is easier to maintain when your ruling class doesn't bulldoze it.
 

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Bird Guano

Bird Guano

Membership Revoked
DarkImbolc said:
Below is a picture of Palestinian olive groves that are being destroyed by Jewish settlers. Agriculture is easier to maintain when your ruling class doesn't bulldoze it.
Click to expand...

Agriculture is easier to maintain when it's not being used as cover to launch rocket and sniper attacks against an Israeli civilian population.

Lucky it wasn't napalmed.

:boohoo:

We have a common enemy. Israel is the tip of the spear.
 
J

jlee

Inactive
I'd like multiple choices, and I'd like to add my own:


Religion: they are God's chosen people and opposing Israel will incur the wrath of God -- it's not so much fear of incurring the wrath of God if I oppose them, but obeying God and praying for their salvation.


Loyalty: they are friends to the United States. And add that they are a democracy. And throw in Samson's
I appreciate a people who can be given land that was deemed useless and not cherished in anyway by any nation or people, and turn it into a stabile, thriving country. This is something that the backward nomadic inhabitants that wandered in and out of that parcel of land could never do because they were to busy fighting amongst themselves.

Our own lives are built on the principles of hard work and ownership of your accomplishments. Why would we not back a society that not only thrives but employs and improves the lives of the very people that hate them for no other reason than jealousy at their accomplishment
Click to expand...


Sympathy: victims of holocaust and now of terrorism. I suppose there's a bit of that. Akin to how I feel about the Armenians, for instance.


Common Enemy: we are both in a fight to the death against Muslim terrorists. Oh, yes, indeed.


I agree or disagree with Israel's tactics and policies depending on the circumstances. Yes.



DarkImbolc said:
Below is a picture of Palestinian olive groves that are being destroyed by Jewish settlers.
Click to expand...
I think this is not quite accurate. I've forgotten the details, but I believe the bulldozing was done either by the Israeli government or the army, and the reason was either destroying the property of terrorists, or land seizure to build the Wall.

I hardly believe "settlers" did this on their own, and I'd be interested in seeing your documentation.
 
S

Samson

Inactive
DarkImbolc said:
Below is a picture of Palestinian olive groves that are being destroyed by Jewish settlers. Agriculture is easier to maintain when your ruling class doesn't bulldoze it.
Click to expand...

Couple thoughts here.
When land was given to the Israelis in 1948, about 56 years ago, were those olive groves Palestinian olive groves? Did they exist?.

The land that was granted the "Jews" was not more fertile than set aside for the "Palestinians". Jewish industriousness not only made the land given to them fertile but that of their neighbors. Palestinians in Israel would be as destitute as the ones who are being held in refugee camps in their Arab brothers lands....Lebanon, Jordan,.....etc without Israel. However they have a much better life. A much better chance at a less biased education. In Arab camps they have no right to education or good jobs so they can be held up as pawns that are poster children for Arab and now for convenience a Persian excuse for hatred.
 
B

bobfall2005

Veteran Member
1st 5 choices,

And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee:
Click to expand...

If you don't believe, you will have lots of company.

Israel will be hated, and every nation that is able, will come against her.

The people that stand with her, will be hated.

God and 1, are the majority.

Bob
 
sassy

sassy

Veteran Member
America IS an extension of Israel. Both countries have the same values, capitalism, and freedoms. Israel hammered the Arab countries in 1948, 1967 & 1973.
Little ol Israel humiliated all of the Arab/Muslim world by beating them economically,
Tech wise, intellectually, culturally, religiously, medically, socially and morally.
America has accomplished the same. The Arab/Muslim nations are frustrated by Israel/America. The Arab/Muslim religion promised them something they are not achieving. The only way for them to achieve their greatness (promised by their religion) is to eliminate America and Israel.

America is just a BIGGER Israel.


America and Israel are one.
 
B

But If Not

Membership Revoked
Christian for Israel said:
Gen 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Click to expand...


John 8:42-44

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do
 
M

Meggsie

Inactive
I don't support any of them, they've been fighting for thousands of years and will continue to do so.

They'll either keep fighting for the next ? thousands of years or blow us (and them) up....time will tell

In wars, each side is certain it's right and it takes a helluva lot of salesman's talk to convince them otherwise, many have tried and failed...good luck Condi!
 
cannoncocker

cannoncocker

Membership Revoked
God has no "chosen", for all who seek the Son are Saved. The Jews may have been chosen at one point it time, but that was a long time ago and one crucifiction ago. You know, how rascist is it to hold oneself above all others?

And I support Israel depending on the situation. I support them when they fight terrorists, but not when they sell US secrets to China, not when they bomb US ships, not when they spy on America, not when they bomb Red Cross ambulances.
 
Tweakette

Tweakette

Irrelevant
And I support Israel depending on the situation. I support them when they fight terrorists, but not when they sell US secrets to China, not when they bomb US ships, not when they spy on America, not when they bomb Red Cross ambulances.

My view is the same as yours, cannoncocker. That, and the common enemy thing.

I'm not religious and don't believe in the "Gods Chosen People" choice - if they were God's chosen why didn't he give them Hawaii instead of that sandbox? :lol: .

Tweak
 
M

Meggsie

Inactive
cannoncocker said:
. I support them when they fight terrorists, but not when they sell US secrets to China, not when they bomb US ships, not when they spy on America, not when they bomb Red Cross ambulances.
Click to expand...

They did that?? man I hadn't heard that! puts a whole new slant on the situation as far as I'm concerned.

Seems like it's an "every man (country) for itself" situation, as for me, I'm staying out of it and sticking to my gardening (for as long as the garden's there)

I don't like two faced people/nations no matter who or what they are
 
Dennis Olson

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
rescath said:
People who have found fault with Israel's latest activities in Lebanon have been viciously attacked by people whom I consider to be generally reasonable. I'm extremely curious about out why people support Israel so strongly. Please just pick the primary reason that you support Israel.
Click to expand...

Is that why you posted a poll with loaded questions AND completely ignored (purposely?) the primary reason most people support Israel?

Hint:

They are the only Democracy in the region, a guranteed base from which to stage US forces should that ever bceome necessary, and we have an agreement with them to come to their aid militarily should THAT need arise.

rescath, you can be pretty vicious too, as you have amply demonstrated in times past. Pot/kettle/black....
 
P

Perpetuity

Inactive
I can't support either side, at the time. Frankly, I feel that if both sides want to genocide the other into oblivion, have at it, but make sure you do the job 100%, and take care of not one, but two fanatical sides. Why? I think a big part of this boils down to religious extremism, and currently, the leaders are at the extreme ends of their religions in interpreting their belief system. Religious fanatacisim on ANY front is wrong. To say God/Allah/Buddha is on our side is akin to slapping that deity in the face. Religion should be the last reason wars are fought. Is it my God can beat your God's azz type of mentality? Do you think God wants you to kill in his name? Do you feel that you, and only you, have a direct pipeline to your respective God? If you do, you might be a fanatic.

This is the 21st century, not the 11th century.
 
cannoncocker

cannoncocker

Membership Revoked
Perpetuity said:
I can't support either side, at the time. Frankly, I feel that if both sides want to genocide the other into oblivion, have at it, but make sure you do the job 100%, and take care of not one, but two fanatical sides. Why? I think a big part of this boils down to religious extremism, and currently, the leaders are at the extreme ends of their religions in interpreting their belief system. Religious fanatacisim on ANY front is wrong. To say God/Allah/Buddha is on our side is akin to slapping that deity in the face. Religion should be the last reason wars are fought. Is it my God can beat your God's azz type of mentality? Do you think God wants you to kill in his name? Do you feel that you, and only you, have a direct pipeline to your respective God? If you do, you might be a fanatic.

This is the 21st century, not the 11th century.
Click to expand...


Well said. There are way too many people on this planet who think they know what God wants, but who is right? Is the Jew? The Christian? The Moslem? ALL religous fanatics say that their group is right. What to make of the Chritians who think that the Jews are "chosen"? How bizarre that a group of religous believers would think that another, completely seperate group of religous believers would be "chosen" by the FIRST groups God. Kind of like Hindus saying that Sikhs are the "chosen".

There are way too many people in the world who smugly think they are "saved" or "righteous" or "born again". And they seem to be the ones who cause the most trouble for their fellow man.
 
M

Meggsie

Inactive
yep, pretty much says it all.

Leave 'em to it, sit on the fence as people have been doing for thousand of years, and see what happens, we have very little control, if any
 
ioujc

ioujc

MARANTHA!! Even so, come LORD JESUS!!!
Jlee:
Religion: they are God's chosen people and opposing Israel will incur the wrath of God -- it's not so much fear of incurring the wrath of God if I oppose them, but obeying God and praying for their salvation.


Loyalty: they are friends to the United States. And add that they are a democracy. And throw in Samson's

Quote:
I appreciate a people who can be given land that was deemed useless and not cherished in anyway by any nation or people, and turn it into a stabile, thriving country. This is something that the backward nomadic inhabitants that wandered in and out of that parcel of land could never do because they were to busy fighting amongst themselves.

Our own lives are built on the principles of hard work and ownership of your accomplishments. Why would we not back a society that not only thrives but employs and improves the lives of the very people that hate them for no other reason than jealousy at their accomplishment



Sympathy: victims of holocaust and now of terrorism. I suppose there's a bit of that. Akin to how I feel about the Armenians, for instance.


Common Enemy: we are both in a fight to the death against Muslim terrorists. Oh, yes, indeed.


I agree or disagree with Israel's tactics and policies depending on the circumstances. Yes.




Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkImbolc
Below is a picture of Palestinian olive groves that are being destroyed by Jewish settlers.

I think this is not quite accurate. I've forgotten the details, but I believe the bulldozing was done either by the Israeli government or the army, and the reason was either destroying the property of terrorists, or land seizure to build the Wall.

I hardly believe "settlers" did this on their own, and I'd be interested in seeing your documentation.
Click to expand...

Gotta agree with Jlee. There are numerous reasons I support Israel, but if they did something immoral or offensive, I would disagree with that incident, and yes, I KNOW there have been a couple, you DON'T need to point them out......however, the current conflict is NOT one I disagree with AT ALL......for the reasons above, as well as others.
IIRC, those "palestinian olive groves" were planted by the JEWISH people!!
 
astrogirl

astrogirl

Inactive
My answer is not there.

Because the case against Israel, especially that of the terrorists, is based almost entirely (if not *entirely*) on racial hatred.
 
B

barb43

Membership Revoked
I picked the first option in the poll because i believe it's true. (CannonCocker, can you show me in scripture where Israel was removed as God's chosen people? Do you subscribe to replacement theology?)

And i also could have chosen the next 3 choices as well: Loyalty, Sympathy, Common Enemy. I do generally agree with Israel's policies and tactics. And i also think Dennis hit the nail on the head in his comments about how Israel is the only democracy in the area, etc.

Now, beyond that, i can get really shallow and point out that when you see the Israeli people on tv, or you meet them in person, they are very much like American in many ways. They are mannered, many are well-educated, they are clean, they are cultured. (Switch over to the Islamic side and it's pretty easy to see why they're called by derogatory names like "ragheads" -- they're screaming and raging and scruffy and dirty and they don't appear to be very educated or cultured, for the most part.) And i think, wow, which group would i want to hang around with? Easy choice. (Like i said, that's the shallow answer.)
 
R

rescath

Inactive
Dennis Olson said:
Is that why you posted a poll with loaded questions AND completely ignored (purposely?) the primary reason most people support Israel?
Click to expand...

Didn't ignore it -- just didn't occur to me in those terms.

rescath, you can be pretty vicious too, as you have amply demonstrated in times past. Pot/kettle/black....
Click to expand...

I wasn't necessarily accusing anyone of anything in particular -- so you needn't get defensive. My point is just that people seem to be very deeply invested in the Israel question from an emotional standpoint. I myself ended up in Timeout over it, so I wasn't necessarily absolving myself either. I have yet to see any other issue generate so many violent emotions on either side, so I just wanted to probe into the reason.
 
R

rescath

Inactive
Dennis Olson said:
Is that why you posted a poll with loaded questions AND completely ignored (purposely?) the primary reason most people support Israel?

Hint:

They are the only Democracy in the region,
Click to expand...


You forget the Palestinians, who democratically elected Hamas; Iraq, which democratically elected a Shiite government, and of course Lebanon. Is democracy always a good thing? Probably depends on who gets elected, no?
 
B

But If Not

Membership Revoked
Simple Man said:
Genesis 12:3 says it all for me.
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John 8:42-44

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do
 
Worrier King

Worrier King

Inactive
rescath said:
Didn't ignore it -- just didn't occur to me in those terms.
Click to expand...

Did it occur to you to include in your poll:

" I support a U.N. designated generational refugee group who hide behind women and children and slit throats on camera, doing such things in trying to achieve nuclear and other WMDs, announcing they desire those WMD's in order to kill other nations people ASAP?"
 
O

Oilpatch Hand

3-Bomb General, TB2K Army
Dennis Olson said:
Is that why you posted a poll with loaded questions AND completely ignored (purposely?) the primary reason most people support Israel?

Hint:

They are the only Democracy in the region, a guranteed base from which to stage US forces should that ever bceome necessary, and we have an agreement with them to come to their aid militarily should THAT need arise.
Click to expand...

BINGO! We have our winner, ladies and gentlemen! Set down your markers, please!

The poll, as posited above, is valueless, as the correct answer is not offered among several other choices, some of which are quite dubious. The correct answer is rooted in U.S. foreign policy, which is intended further the security interests of this nation.

One is left to wonder why the correct choice was omitted from this poll. :hmm:
 
W

Woolly

Inactive
Scripture is quite clear, the seed of Abraham was given the land we know as Israel.

In truth, the 'seed' was given much more land than today's Israel.

As to Abraham's seed, his 'seed' was to be reckoned through Issac. As such, the Jews have a stronger claim on the land than do the Ismalites. The title deed to the land is the Book of Genesis of Holy Scripture.

Therefor, to support Israel is to support God's decision to give them THE land.

"As for me and my house, we will support the Lord!"

Woolly
 
Caplock50

Caplock50

I am the Winter Warrior
I didn't vote because "All Of the above" wasn't in there as a choice. I back no one completely and without some reservations.
 
T

TomB7777

Inactive
I voted Religion, but this poll should allow multiple answers, as I support Israel for all the reasons listed.
 
Bird Guano

Bird Guano

Membership Revoked
cannoncocker said:
... not when they bomb Red Cross ambulances.
Click to expand...

They only bomb them when the Palestinians and Hezbollah use them to carry weapons and use them as car bombs.

This is WELL documented in the MSM.

BTW in muslim countries it's Red Crescent
 
B

bleep2u2

Inactive
In this battle we will all have to decide which side we are.Dont see me with a turban yelling "Allah Akbar".Sorry the Israelis cant fight a kinder ,gentler war but when you are outnumbered couple hundred thousand to one brute froce is sometimes necessary.
 
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