Who do you think China is going to back when we attack Iran?

Who do you think China is going to back when we attack Iran?

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1419574.cms

SHANGHAI :China and Iran are close to setting up plans to develop Iran’s Yadavaran oil field, according to published reports, in a multi-billion dollar deal that comes as Tehran faces the prospect of sanctions over its nuclear program. The deal is said to be worth about $100bn.

According to Caijing, a respected financial magazine, a Chinese government delegation is due to visit Iran as early as March ’06 to formally sign an agreement allowing China Petrochemical (Sinopec), to develop Yadavaran. The Wall Street Journal also reported in Friday’s editions that the two sides are trying to conclude the deal in coming weeks before potential sanctions are imposed on Iran for its nuclear ambitions. The report cited unnamed Iranian oil ministry officials familiar with the talks. The deal would complete a memorandum of understanding signed in ’04.

In exchange for developing Yadavaran, one of Iran’s largest onshore oil fields, China would agree to buy 10m tons a year of liquefied natural gas for 25 years, beginning in ’09, the Caijing report said, citing Sinopec board member Mou Shuling. Chinese and Iranian officials in Beijing said they could not confirm the report.

Staff at Iran’s embassy in Beijing said they were aware of the report but had not heard Mou’s remarks, which Caijing said were made at a recent embassy event. A written statement from the Iranian Embassy noted that the two countries have been working together in various energy fields.

, “following the rule of mutual benefits and respect in all bilateral co-operation.” The Caijing report said Chinese and Iranian officials met in December last for talks on the project.According to the published report, Sinopec would hold a 51% stake in the Yadavaran project, with India’s ONGC taking 29%. The remainder would go to Iranian companies and possibly to Royal Dutch Shell PLC, which has also expressed interest, it said.

The report also said that there was some disagreement over intended capacity, with Iran asking China to agree to daily output of 3,00,000 barrels of oil, while Sinopec preferred to set a target of 1,80,000 to avoid excess production.
China, seeking oil and gas to fuel its booming economy amid stagnant production at home, has been snapping up energy resources in places as far flung as Venezuela, Kazakhstan, Nigeria and Australia.
 

Carlos

Inactive
Depends. We're the hated west but what about the godless east? When radical Islam pisses off the Chinese they're doomed and we'll be shoulder to shoulder with China. Only a matter of time.
 

maric

Short but deadly
The ragheads want to take over the world. That includes China. We'll all be fighting the I-slams soon.
 

Jeanne51

Inactive
I thought I read somewhere that China would back Iran. Maybe it was Russia who said they would back Iran. Not good either way.
 

timbo

Deceased
It was Russia that warned us not to invade Iran. But that isnt saying they will do anything.

My Take?

China wont do squat. It will sit there as the giant has sat there for centuries.

They have plenty of time and people to take these little squabbles like water off a duck's back.

Eventually they will win........sheer numbers will guarantee this.

So what does win mean? Not much really. It will still look like the China of today.

Some very modern spots around the country and the rest will be the peasants growing their own food and surviving as they have for centuries.

I worry more about India and Pakistan.
 

Robin Hood

Veteran Member
my $0.02 take. Both China and Russia want the US hegomony stopped. China being in security council will veto any UN support for the action. It will well suit China's interest to let the US get further bogged down in a war with Iran, Syria, Hammas etc and continue to spend out our resources of both men and money. They want a weakened US. They also want the world status and the next Olympics in their country will show the prestige that they are now a world power. That will give more time for the US to fray. At some point in time after that is when I think it will be show time between the US and China, North Korea etc. Put the current possible bird flu pandemic, the Greenland ice sheet quickly melting, the increase in severity of weather storms in general, our own lack of enforcing immigration and its possible consequences and one has to wonder as was stated in the Lord of the Rings somewhere"How did the west come to this?". Prophetic.

rh
 

Silverback

Inactive
I don't think China or Russia will commit an overt act of war on Irans behalf.

OTOH, I think they'll both do whatever they can to make the campaign as costly as possible for us.

They are the competition, the former superpower that still possesses immense military strength and pines for the good old days and the rising superpower that just needs time.

Anything that weakens us strengthens them. They're happy to let us wear ourselves down in the middle east. When we win then we'll have to deal with them, because in the longer term they can't afford to have the heart of the region in the US sphere of influence, and it would be very difficult for the US to hold that territory, the logistic advantage of the "former" communist block is too great.

It helps if you look at greater Eurasia as a whole, they're all competitors of the North American/Anglo/Asian democracies to some degree.

We need to look to our flank to the south BTW, the greatest failure of US foreign policy over the last couple decades has been allowing South America to slip farther out of our sphere of influence and into our enemies.
 

doctor_fungcool

TB Fanatic
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31931

WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS
China steps up preparation for U.S. conflict
America's war in Iraq seen as precursor to Asia conquest


By Jon Dougherty

China's leaders believe they must step up Beijing's efforts in preparation for eventual confrontation with the United States sooner rather than later because of America's overwhelming technological military success in the war in Iraq, according to Asia experts and analysts.

Willy Wo Lap Lam, senior China analyst for CNN, says Beijing also has begun to fine-tune its domestic and security policies to counter the perceived threat of U.S. "neo-imperialism."

Richard Fisher Jr., a senior fellow and China analyst with the Jamestown Foundation <http://www.jamestown.org>, agrees that the United States' demonstrable military technology advantage in both Gulf wars concerns Beijing and has led China to speed up weapons procurement and development.

An F/A-18C Hornet launches off bow of USS Kitty Hawk. China has no aircraft carriers.

"I see a long-term effort underway to accelerate the modernization of all of China's armed forces," Fisher told WorldNetDaily.

Al Santoli, Asia expert and editor of the China Reform Monitor – an occasional electronic newsletter published by the American Foreign Policy Council <http://www.afpc.org>, says recent statements by Chinese President Hu Jintao and Premier Wen Jiabao "show the new leadership has concluded that China is facing formidable challenges."

"In the near term, concern is focused on the impact of rising oil prices and the need to build up a strategic oil reserve," Santoli wrote. "Of more concern, as People's Daily commentator Huang Peizhao pointed out, is the view that U.S. moves in the Middle East 'have served the goal of seeking worldwide domination.' Chinese strategists think if the U.S. can score a relatively quick victory over Baghdad, it will soon turn to Asia."

Santoli said some Chinese officials may even believe the U.S. will attack North Korea over rising nuclear-weapons tensions as early as this summer.
A B-2 Spirit stealth bomber moves into position to be refueled in-air.

"Until late last year, Beijing believed a confrontation with the U.S. could be delayed and China could concentrate almost exclusively on economic development," said Santoli. Quoting a Chinese source close to the diplomatic establishment, Santoli wrote that many political cadres and think-tank members believe Beijing should adopt a more proactive, aggressive stance to thwart perceived American aggression.

Lam says many Chinese, who are "glued" to their television sets watching the U.S. progress in the war, believe Baghdad is using the "people's war" doctrine set forth by the late Mao Tse-tung. "'Saddam Hussein is a good student of Mao Tse-tung,' so goes a popular saying in Beijing," Lam wrote last month.

<http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/east/03/31/willy.column/>
"Mao also noted that crafty use of people's and guerrilla warfare could enable a militarily backward – but politically motivated – country to win over a much stronger power," Lam said. "Possible theoretical cross-fertilizations aside, Mao has also been celebrated the past fortnight for two reasons: his championship of high-tech weapons and his defiance of American supremacy. And it is these two legacies that may exert a significant influence on Chinese policy."

Chinese aircraft can be refueled in-flight, but the technology is old.

He said the U.S.-Iraq war was prompting calls for greater funding of the People's Liberation Army, or PLA. "… The allied forces' stunning display of firepower since late last month is being cited by the PLA – and nationalistic elements in Chinese society – to raise the budget for procurement of hardware," Lam wrote.
Lam said he doesn't believe the U.S. will strike North Korea, at least this year, because Washington is overextended militarily due to the fight with Iraq.


"China is preparing for a number of possible military scenarios that it may have to confront in the coming five to 20 years," Fisher said. "These would definitely include, first and foremost, a possible conflict with the United States."
He said possible flashpoints include Taiwan and North Korea, adding that China's eventual goal is to "displace" the U.S. as Asia's primary power.

The first Gulf war, Fisher said, "prompted a profound re-evaluation of China's military modernization" efforts. U.S. successes in the 1991 conflict led Beijing to "many decisions, the results of which are being revealed the path that China has chosen" in modernizing its forces since then.

"The second Gulf war can [also] be expected to have a very specific influence on the direction of China's military modernization as well," he said.
Taiwan President Chen Shui-bian on Saturday called China's military modernization and expansion destabilizing.

"China began to develop nuclear arms more than 40 years ago. Its development of launch vehicles is even more terrifying," Chen said in a keynote speech delivered at the opening of the International Seminar on Asia-Pacific Cooperative Security.

"In addition to possessing conventional guided missiles, it is developing cruise missiles and missiles with multiple warheads. These missiles will not only threaten Taiwan but also other countries within range of them," Chen added.
Chinese military scientists also are working to perfect anti-satellite and laser weapons, and are working with civilian space authorities to launch the country's first manned space flight, perhaps by next year.
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http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15136

By Jon E. Dougherty

China wants the U.S. out of Asia, and will continue to upgrade and enhance its military capability to accomplish that goal, according to a senior congressional policy analyst.

Al Santoli, a foreign policy adviser to U.S. Rep. Dana Rohrabacher <http://www.house.gov/rohrabacher/bio.htm>, R-CA, and an analyst at the American Foreign Policy Council <http://www.afpc.org>, believes current administration policies toward China of so-called "constructive engagement" are "worse than appeasement," and will further jeopardize U.S. national security in the long run.

Santoli made his remarks in a telephone interview with WorldNetDaily, and was adamant that all indications point to the Chinese continuing their decade-long effort to obtain more sensitive U.S. technology before their "window of opportunity closes" at the end of the Clinton administration.

The latest attempt by China to obtain more U.S. technology occurred earlier this month, when Chinese businessman Collin Shu was arrested in Massachusetts trying to buy gyroscopes from U.S. undercover agents. The gyroscopes are precision tools used to guide everything from missiles to smart bombs, and officials said that Shu was attempting to ship them to China through Canada via a front company he owns.

What is equally important, however, are the uses China has found for all the new knowledge. Both Rohrabacher and Santoli are worried that Chinese military buildups in key areas surrounding mainland China will not only threaten the stability of the region but make any eventual U.S. intervention costly and difficult.
Santoli told WorldNetDaily that while he believes the issue of Taiwan is currently the most contentious between the U.S. and China, he also indicated that a threat is emerging in the South China Sea because of China's claim of sovereignty over a small collection of islands. For years China has continued a military buildup <http://www.usajournal.com/C-Pages/china_lays_claims_to_spratleys.htm> in the Spratly Islands <http://www.usajournal.com/S-Pages/spratly_map.htm>, adding a three-story structure and completing work on multiple helicopter pads and communications facilities all within the past 60 days.

Critics have denounced the opinions of Rohrabacher and Santoli as alarmist, but both men say their concerns are based on first-hand observations. Santoli is an expert in the area of Asian foreign policy and the California congressman has personally visited the Spratly Islands twice in the past several weeks.

Not only are new structures complete on portions of the island chain, but they added that more projects are already underway that will be completed over the next several months. The additional capabilities will put China in the best position to make good on their claim over the islands -- reportedly rich in natural gas and oil -- which will result in a likely foreign policy nightmare for the United States. Other U.S. allies in the region also claim some or all of the Spratly Islands, but attempts to soften the Chinese position on the sovereignty issue have met with resistance. As a result, the Clinton administration's policies favoring the Chinese appear to legitimize their claim over the Spratlys which may have emboldened their efforts to beef up existing garrisons.

Because of the State Department's willingness to ignore technology sales and transfers, and because of the Clinton administration's continued ambivalence toward China, Santoli believes "we're actually helping to facilitate the Chinese military buildup, especially with all this military-to-military cooperation."

Last week Rohrabacher addressed these concerns in a letter he sent to Defense Secretary William Cohen. The Pentagon has just announced increased military ties with China in 1999, including high-level contacts that may end up providing the Chinese military with insights into improving logistics, battlefield tactics and technological efforts. In his letter, the congressman said continuing to provide the Chinese with access to sensitive U.S. technology, military tactics and logistical expertise was "insanity." Rohrabacher wrote, "There is no country in the world that we are more likely to be at war with 10 years from now than Communist China, and here we are modernizing their military. It's insanity."

Santoli addressed a gambit of concerns he has with current U.S.-China policies. He spoke to issues of trade and appeasement, and summarized the current status of several Chinese military projects. Most importantly, he pointed out that while it is not prudent to abandon all contact with the Chinese, it is foolish to believe they are the benevolent behemoth the administration says they are.

Santoli said the Chinese have been able to upgrade weapons systems so rapidly because of huge trade imbalances. He said, "We've got a $60 billion per year trade deficit with China, mostly because of the imbalance within import and export duties." That imbalance, he explained, has enabled China to accumulate huge sums of disposable cash to purchase weapons, technology and expand their own domestic production capability.

Not only that, Santoli said, loopholes in U.S. trade policy with China "have made it very easy to continue to get access to U.S. technology, even today," despite congressional reports that national security has been already been harmed due to the sale of sensitive technology. "Many PLA (People's Liberation Army) businesses are fronts in Hong Kong, and the importation/exportation rules into Hong Kong from America are much less restrictive," he said.

And he pointed some of the blame for lax trade policies on members of the White House advisory staff. For example, he said, before joining the Clinton White House as the president's National Security Adviser, Sandy Berger had substantial business contacts which have been enhanced since Clinton relaxed the technology export rules.

"The Commerce Department has definitely improved Mr. Berger's business relationships," Santoli said. And it is precisely these kinds of relationships throughout the Clinton administration that have led to a series of foreign policy gaffes and missteps.

Regarding the current status of Chinese weapons systems, Santoli said the PLA is making progress in a number of areas. Besides building their first supersonic bomber, the Hong-7, China has developed the first stages of an anti-satellite capability, is building anti-ship missiles that can be fired from helicopters, is expanding into a blue water navy, and has "an aggressive military aircraft production capability, which includes in-flight refueling capacity purchased from Russia."

Santoli said China's regional goal is simple. They "want the U.S. out of the Pacific and they want to dominate the region." Admiral Joseph Prueher, outgoing commander of U.S. forces in the Pacific and Asia agrees, telling reporters last week, "At some point in the future they (the Chinese) would like to have everyone in the region have to have China's approval for whatever they might want to do."
Their military strategy for gaining influence is time-tested, Santoli explained.

"Basically, they are island-hopping," he said, referencing a military strategy widely used by the Japanese in the years leading up to World War II. He said that since the Chinese do not currently possess the logistical capacity of the United States, they are acquiring existing land masses in the region and turning them "into floating military bases instead."

For instance, China recently acquired the island of Tarawa -- the site of a bloody World War II battle

<http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/6991/Tarawa.htm> -- from the island nation of Kiribati, where they have built a major satellite listening and observation post. Tarawa is strategically located between the U.S. and the Chinese mainland, and is only about 1,500 miles from Hawaii. "It gives China the ability to monitor all U.S. anti-missile systems and missile tests," Santoli said.
The Asian foreign policy expert said he also sees China simultaneously developing other military technologies that are designed to attack U.S. information systems. He explained that China is "very interested" in exploiting "asymmetrical warfare" -- a concept that involves attacking an enemy's satellites, computer systems, and information infrastructure.

He was also blunt about Chinese intentions towards Taiwan. "They want to take Taiwan over, pure and simple. Even last week they were talking about it," he said, referring to China's anger over U.S. intentions to construct an ad hoc missile defense system for Taiwan and Japan as a result of ongoing ballistic missile threats from both China and North Korea.

Santoli appeared skeptical about the U.S. decision, saying, "Any missile defense system in the short term would be inadequate" because "there really isn't one that would go against the number of missiles China could deploy -- at this time."
Santoli also questioned China's budding new relationship with Russia, calling it "a danger for us, but one that will end up being a mistake for Russia." He predicted that "they (the Chinese) will turn on Russia after they get what they want from them and after they deal with us," and he dismissed recent attempts by Russia to include India in any future coalition with China as unworkable.

"India just doesn't trust the Chinese, and they aren't enemies of ours -- nor do they want to be."

Finally, Santoli said he was not "quite as worried about Chinese aggression" during the final years of the Clinton administration as he is in the years immediately following the expiration of Clinton's term. He believes the Chinese know the window of opportunity to access U.S. technology will close soon, but he believes "they'll have already perfected several new weapons systems and will be much more enhanced strategically by then," he said.

"Some kind of confrontation with China could happen before then, but they're really not ready yet," he explained. "They want to build more missiles, improve their blue water navy, enhance their air forces, and perfect their high-tech anti-satellite capabilities

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A war with China is inevitable. Those who don't believe this fact, aren't privy to the proper information.
 

doctor_fungcool

TB Fanatic
Chinese Military on Our Border

Chinese Troops On The US-Mexican Border…
by
Dennis & Ann Bossack
DNA LIVE RADIO
www.ufolab.info <http://www.ufolab.info>

Since August, 2002, when DNA LIVE RADIO signed on to the internet and began broadcasting, Ann and I have reported about the thousands of Chinese troops just south of the US-Mexican border.

We live 22 miles southeast of Deming and 32 miles southwest of Las Cruces, NM, in the 'middle of the desert.' We have spoken with two (2) local Border Patrol agents who have come into face-to-face contact with Chinese military troops doing maneuvers 15 miles north of the US-Mexican border. This actually puts those troops 15 miles directly south of our home.

These two agents have told us that they have encountered three to four thousand troops numerous times. They stated that they call headquarters who in turn calls a local covert US Marine unit that wanders around the desert along the border in this area.

The Marines meet the Border Patrol agents, talk with the Chinese officers, slap backs and shake hands. Then the Chinese about-face and return south across the border.

As for the Marine unit, there has been no official word that this unit exists. We’ve been told that this Marine unit moves, on a daily basis, around the border area setting up camp in a different location every day. We’ve inquired with Border Patrol, US Customs, the Luna County Sheriff’s Department and the local police. No one will say anything about it.

We have been trying to get the Border Patrol agents to speak on our show...but to no avail. They fear for their safety, the safety of their families and their jobs.

We have recorded every show since August, 05, 2002, revealing this. For your research and information, cassette tapes or CDs of our shows are available through our on-line store located at http://www.ufolab.info/ufolablimited.htm <http://web.archive.org/web/20030622093125/http://www.ufolab.info/ufolablimited.htm>

The latest reports on the internet are speaking only of Russian and Cuban troops south of our border. Although this is a major problem, why is it that no one is reporting the Chinese troops?

The Chinese military is the largest in military in the world boasting a 200 million-man infantry. There are approximately 286 million people living in the United States today. Excluding the sick, the elderly and the very young, this works out to almost one foreign soldier for every American citizen. This does not include the Russian, Cuban, Mexican, North Korean, German, and other troops placed around our country.

This means a very large problem for the citizens of the United States of America.

http://www.ufolab.info/Chinese_on_our_border.htm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Don't put it past the Chinese. The 'ragheads' as y'all call them are absolutely not nearly the threat that the Chinese and Paks are.................Once the UAE runs our ports, we'll be extremely vunerable. Foreign troops would pour through the porous Mexican border, while the Chinese would come through Alaska through lower Canada, to link up with their buddies in the south. Those that don't think this can't happen are fools...........you can't even imagine an invasion of lets say 100 million troops.
 

JohnGaltfla

#NeverTrump
doctor_fungcool said:
Chinese Military on Our Border

Chinese Troops On The US-Mexican Border…
by
Dennis & Ann Bossack
DNA LIVE RADIO
www.ufolab.info <http://www.ufolab.info>

Since August, 2002, when DNA LIVE RADIO signed on to the internet and began broadcasting, Ann and I have reported about the thousands of Chinese troops just south of the US-Mexican border.

We live 22 miles southeast of Deming and 32 miles southwest of Las Cruces, NM, in the 'middle of the desert.' We have spoken with two (2) local Border Patrol agents who have come into face-to-face contact with Chinese military troops doing maneuvers 15 miles north of the US-Mexican border. This actually puts those troops 15 miles directly south of our home.

These two agents have told us that they have encountered three to four thousand troops numerous times. They stated that they call headquarters who in turn calls a local covert US Marine unit that wanders around the desert along the border in this area.

The Marines meet the Border Patrol agents, talk with the Chinese officers, slap backs and shake hands. Then the Chinese about-face and return south across the border.

As for the Marine unit, there has been no official word that this unit exists. We’ve been told that this Marine unit moves, on a daily basis, around the border area setting up camp in a different location every day. We’ve inquired with Border Patrol, US Customs, the Luna County Sheriff’s Department and the local police. No one will say anything about it.

We have been trying to get the Border Patrol agents to speak on our show...but to no avail. They fear for their safety, the safety of their families and their jobs.

We have recorded every show since August, 05, 2002, revealing this. For your research and information, cassette tapes or CDs of our shows are available through our on-line store located at http://www.ufolab.info/ufolablimited.htm <http://web.archive.org/web/20030622093125/http://www.ufolab.info/ufolablimited.htm>

The latest reports on the internet are speaking only of Russian and Cuban troops south of our border. Although this is a major problem, why is it that no one is reporting the Chinese troops?

The Chinese military is the largest in military in the world boasting a 200 million-man infantry. There are approximately 286 million people living in the United States today. Excluding the sick, the elderly and the very young, this works out to almost one foreign soldier for every American citizen. This does not include the Russian, Cuban, Mexican, North Korean, German, and other troops placed around our country.

This means a very large problem for the citizens of the United States of America.

http://www.ufolab.info/Chinese_on_our_border.htm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Don't put it past the Chinese.


Having the Chicoms in Cuba and the Panama Canal Zone is of little comfort either....
 

Fuzzychick

Membership Revoked
Angels must be smiling on me! Doc FC, good to see you! Now down to business..;) It isn't looking good is it?:rolleyes:
 

doctor_fungcool

TB Fanatic
Fuzzychick said:
Angels must be smiling on me! Doc FC, good to see you! Now down to business..;) It isn't looking good is it?:rolleyes:

I am here.............I have always been here.............lurking.............

Now read this.........the following article concerns the fact that China is building the largest container port in the world, in the Grand Bahamas.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This port is being built by the Chicoms.........never will you hear about it on the news...............never. All of TPTB are aware of their construction activity.


Freeport Container Port (FCP) is situated on Grand Bahama Island - one of the largest islands that comprise The Commonwealth of the Bahamas.

The Port, endowed with one of the deepest natural harbours in the region, is just 65 miles off the east coast of Florida, USA and sits at the centre of a 230 square mile free-trade-zone.

Freeport Container Port is strategically located to serve as a major world container transshipment hub between the Eastern Gulf Coasts of the United States, the Gulf of Mexico, the Caribbean, South America, and trade lanes to European, Mediterranean, Far Eastern and Australasian destinations. It offers a cost effective, flexible solution for the regional transshipment requirements of shipping lines, combining state-of-the art terminal facilities with significant expansion potential.



Development
Freeport Container Port has undergone extensive upgrading and development during the last several years. Since completion of Phase I of the development project in 1997, throughput volumes have grown sharply. The completion of Phase II and III of the development project further enhance the Port's handling capacity.

FCP already serves some of the world's major shipping lines, including: Maersk Sealand Services, Mediterranean Shipping Company (MSC), and others, such as, Tropical Shipping, Compagnie Maritime D'Affretement (CMA), Cagema Agencies Inc., Navieras Inc. (NPR).


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1595550054/002-7065272-1759268?v=glance&n=283155

http://www.hph.com.hk/business/ports/america/bahamas.htm

The first URL is outlines a list of books about China for further reading. They must be purchased.
The second URL discusses the port in the Bahamas.......please do some of your own research on this subject, and search for other more explicit sites.
 

Fuzzychick

Membership Revoked
Thanx! Checking it out. Doc, do you think people will actually wake up or is this amiss, I sure hope it isn't.
 

doctor_fungcool

TB Fanatic
You're welcome, F.C..........here's some more reading, for those that like research.


http://www.jonesbahamas.com/?c=130&a=7226

New Global Economic Order

Godfrey Eneas

The world is in the midst of establishing a new global economic order. The economic power pendulum is swinging to east as China and India, the world most populous countries flex their economic power. This all stems from the size of their domestic markets.

Both China and India have in excess of 2 billion people. It is around this domestic market that will generate economic power. How? The potential spending power of these countries is huge likewise the potential buying power.

Countries around the globe are tailoring their exports to access these markets Countries also are aware of the fact that the consumers in these countries present a new challenge in developing products, which appeal to these markets. China has already stated publicly that it will use its domestic market as the basis for development.

There are two other parts to this new and emerging dispensation. It is Brazil and Russia and they comprise the new acronym BRIC, which means Brazil, Russia, India and China. These four countries have been identified as having economies with tremendous growth and development potential.

This past week the Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Hon. Fred Mitchell, visited both China and India. While in China, the Minister opened a new Embassy in the capital city, Beijing. Since the mid -90s, the government of The Bahamas has recognized the Peoples’ Republic of China after severing diplomatic ties with Taiwan.
China has a presence in The Bahamas both diplomatically and in economic terms. Diplomatically, the government of China is about to build a multimillion dollars national sports stadium. It also offers numerous academic scholarships for Bahamian students to study in China. In economic terms, China is a major investor in The Bahamas as Hutchinson –Whampoa owns half of the Grand Bahama Port A uthority. This includes the Container Port.


One of the main reasons for opening an Embassy in China is to tap the tourism market, which could be tremendous. Presently, Chinese citizens experience great difficulties in getting to The Bahamas. This means that they often have to travel through a third country and they must have not only a visa for that country but also for The Bahamas. For years, The British Embassy had provided consular services on behalf of The Bahamas.

China is an important economic power in the global community so it is strategic for The Bahamas to have a presence there.

With reference to India, there are numerous reasons, diplomatically, economically and culturally. As a sister Commonwealth Country, there are many commonalities, which are shared by India and The Bahamas, particularly the jurisprudence, educational system at the tertiary level and in sports as India is often in the Caribbean playing test cricket. There are several hundred thousand Indians in this region and perhaps one or two thousand in The Bahamas. Indian foods are very much apart of our diet- curry, roti, and chutney to name a few.

India has emerged as one of the leading centres for information and communication technology. India’s advancement as a technology centre has created a demand for Indian technicians around the world. Further, India’s university system is one of the best in the world. In recent years, India has been exporting professionals of every kind; there are many here in The Bahamas from the southern Caribbean as well as directly from India.

Brazil is a major player in the Western Hemisphere and is flexing its muscles on many hemispheric issues. It presently is conducting peacekeeping exercises in Haiti. It is a leader in negotiations on the Free Trade Area of the Americas (FTAA). Its power is really seen in food production capacity as it is leading food supplier in a range of food commodities.

There is not much of a Russian presence in The Bahamas; on the global scene Russia cannot be ignored.

At this week’s World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, business leaders from around the globe are touting the economic impact India and China are having on global trade. The new economic order is here.

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China working on ASAT ( anti satellite) systems -- July 27, 2005
Given this technology — at lower power thresholds – "Chinese researchers may believe that low-energy lasers can 'blind' sensors on low-Earth-orbiting satellites," the report suggests, but whether Beijing has tested such a capability is unclear.
<http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/space/2005-07-27-china-satellites_x.htm>


India, China and Russia sign partnership -- June 1, 2005
<http://www.rediff.com/news/2005/jun/01tri.htm?zcc=rl>


addition, China's 094 nuclear submarines, armed with strategic missiles, have undertaken many secret sea trials
10 Nuclear Subs for second arena of warfare

Chinese subs a threat in the Pacific
<http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,FL_china_123104,00.html>

China copies our Aegis power ( why not ? .. Clinton allowed them our supercomputers )
<http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/05/front2453572.990277778.html>
<http://www.rense.com/general2/super.htm>

Totally silent Chinese diesel-electric subs ... Yuan-class

According to Mr. Trevethan, China currently has a force of 57 deployed submarines, including one Xia-class nuclear ballistic missile submarine, five Han submarines, four Kilos, seven Songs, 18 Mings and 22 Soviet-designed Romeos. Beijing also has eight more Kilos on order with Russia

A Pentagon report made public in May stated that China is changing its warship forces from a coastal defense force to one employing "active offshore defense."
<http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040716-123134-8152r.htm>
Advances in battery technology and alternate energy producing systems allowed diesel subs to submerge longer, operating on batteries. There were new designs and materials to quiet noisy submarine sources as well as defeat active sonar systems. The diesel subs also operate in the much noisier and difficult shallow waters near shore.

These modernized diesel submarines can be used to insert military personnel, lay deadly minefields, launch devastating cruise and guided missile, threaten vital shipping lanes, and of course, attack ships and submarines.
<http://www.diodon349.com/submarines/diesel_subs_surface_as_a_new_threat.htm>

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Y'all get the picture? For further reading, go to the following sites....................

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,FL_china_123104,00.html

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/05/front2453572.990277778.html
http://www.rense.com/general2/super.htm

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040716-123134-8152r.htm
http://www.diodon349.com/submarines/diesel_subs_surface_as_a_new_threat.htm
 

don24mac

Veteran Member
Resource wars.

Whoever controls the resources (oil) wins. China especially, and Russia to a lesser extent (because they have much of their own supply) won't let the U.S. take sole control of the resources. They'll do as little as necessary, but they will do what's needed.
 

Hiding Bear

Inactive
China will block almost all actions in the UN to sanction Iran. Since the US already has nearly full sanctions against Iran, the US is effectively asking other countries of the world to sacrifice. But why should China?

China, usually forward looking, severely underestimated its needs of reliable future supplies of oil and natural gas. It is now in a crash program of buying oil supplies and building oil storage facilities. China's growth will slow down severely if it could not replace Iran's energy from another country.

The only possible replacement of Iranian oil is from Venezuela. Mexico's oil production is now on the verge of a frightening tailspin - which even the usually optimistic Wall Street Journal has documented recently.

So maybe they let US bomb Iran, and Iran take out the largest refinery in the world in Saudi Arabia, but China insists on getting oil from Venezuela - which up to now shows up at your local 7-11 and Citgo. That is where the next world war really starts. Who gets to the oil from the rest of the world once the Mideast goes up in smoke?
 

Seabird

Veteran Member
doctor_fungcool said:
Now read this.........China is building the largest container port in the world, in the Grand Bahamas.

That was one of the reasons we moved away from South Florida. I used to live in Deerfield Beach, Florida... Sixty miles due west of the Grand Bahamas. We learned of the Chinese port in '01 and '02. After discovering that the 911 terrorists had been living in our backyard, & learning how to fly planes at a small local airport, and then Anthrax letters coming through our local post office, finding out that the Chinese were that close was the last straw.
 

doctor_fungcool

TB Fanatic
IS CHINA PREPARING FOR WAR?
An Analysis of Recent Moves By China Which May Signal Intentions To Invade Russia

By Mark W. Hughes
Infoshop News
February 15, 2006
http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20060215180623912Wednesday, February 15 2006


This analysis will first look at recent developments concerning the Chinese economic and energy policies. This will be followed by an analysis of data concerning global oil consumption and peak oil. Finally, the data concerning China and the data concerning global energy and peak oil will be utilized to examine the possibility that China is preparing to launch a war against Russia to seize Russian far-east oil reserves.

The Chinese central bank holds foreign currency reserves that have reached $819 billion, a foreign currency reserve second only to Japan and expected to exceed that nation's reserves this year. China has invested about three-quarters of this reserve in U.S. Treasury bills and other dollar-dominated assets. China's purchase of Treasury bills, in additions to similar purchasing by Japan and other nations (predominantly OPEC members) is responsible for much of the value of the U.S. dollar, and China uses the purchases to keep its own currency -- the yuan -- undervalued, thus maintaining a balance of trade that vastly favors cheap Chinese manufacturing goods. This also has the effect of holding U.S. interest rates at low levels, besides keeping the dollar at a high value worldwide. Chinese currency reserves are growing at an average rate of $15 billion each month.

However, China is now poised to move much of its currency reserves away from dollars and into other currencies, including the euro, and into commodities purchases -- predominantly oil. China's State Administration of Foreign Exchange has said they will "actively explore more efficient use of our foreign exchange reserves." This followed statements from one of China's central bank monetary policy committee's economist that "The general trend for the U.S. dollar is continually weakening." The economist, Yu Yongding, continued, "Countries with huge foreign-exchange reserves will have their assets shrunken." Finally, in July of 2005 China adjusted its own currency evaluation and increased the yuan by 2-percent against the dollar, and stated that rather than keeping with the system of the yuan's value automatically shifting in accord with the U.S. dollar, the yuan would now fluctuate based upon numerous other currencies such as the euro and the Japanese yen.

These moves in China's economy could signal significant dangers to the U.S. economy. A decreased need for dollars in China, and an increased reliance on other currencies, the value of the dollar will plummet and interest rates will rise. A sell-off by China of U .S. Treasury bills will likewise cause the value of those dollar-dominated assets to plummet, and could trigger a sell-off by other nations including Japan and OPEC members. The dollar last year recovered from a slow decline in value over the preceeding years, a drop partly triggered by the rise in value of the euro and the amassing of euros in central banks in several nations, including OPEC members Venezuela, Iran, and Iraq (which had shifted all of it's Oil For Food funds at the U.N. -- roughly $10 billion -- from dollars to euros, and had broke from the OPEC standard of accepting only U.S. dollars for oil transactions).

In addition to the huge foreign currency reserves, China's global trade surplus amazingly tripled in 2005, reaching $102 billion. This trade surplus is expected to expand even more in 2006, since Chinese industry is producing at a rate that China cannot internally absorb and thus cutting the need for imports while enhancing the need to export the excess production.

South African Petroleum Company has agreed to allow Cnooc Limited, China's state energy company, to purchase a 45-percent stake in a Nigerian offshore oil field that has proven reserves in excess of 620 million barrels and almost 4 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. The field is expected to provide in excess of 150,000 barrels of oil per day by the year 2008, 45-percent of which would translate into a 20-percent increase in total production for Cnooc. The deal cost China $2.27 billion. China, through China National Petroleum Corporation, is already the largest member of a partnership extracting oil in Sudan, and has built a major amount of the oil infrastructure in that nation.

The deal with Nigeria comes on the heels of China National Petroleum's 2005 attempt to buy Unocal Corporation, a U.S. oil company, for $18.5 billion. That attempt failed after considerable opposition in the U.S. Congress said the purchase would be a danger to the national security interests of the U.S. China has been spending vast sums of money in recent years for oil and natural gas all over the world, and these purchases have sometimes been called significant overpayments. Venezuela, Angola, Indonesia, Australia, Kazakhstan, and Iran have all signed lucrative oil and natural gas deals with China in the last couple of years, and when the Nigeria deal is factored in the price for these seven deals could total nearly $100 billion. Additionally, China is engaged in a struggle with Japan over a pipeline from Siberia, to bring oil from rich Russian oil fields in that region.

These deals are a reflection of several realities in China's need for energy. Currently, China is importing 20-percent of its oil needs from the Middle East. As China's economy continues to grow at double-digit rates; as its manufacturing sector likewise expands; as Chinese citizens increasingly seek personal vehicles for transportation; and as the Chinese military expands, China's energy consumption is expected to skyrocket. While three-fifths of Persian Gulf oil is now consumed in Europe, by 2017 China will consume the equivalent of three-fourths of Persian Gulf oil. And the U.S. is responsible for about one-quarter of global oil consumption. With such statistics in mind, and as the U.S. occupation of Iraq continues to face difficulties and Iran is threatened with U.N. sanctions, China is under intense pressure to find sources of energy outside the Persian Gulf.

However, despite this conventional wisdom about China's obvious economic expansion and the inherent need for increased energy sources, China stunned the energy markets on Friday, January 13, 2006, by claiming their crude oil imports rose only 1.2-percent while their oil products imports actually fell 34-percent, and that total oil demand dropped by 0.3-percent. With an economy growing at double-digit rates, China is behind only the U.S. in terms of its energy consumption, consumption which rose by 15-percent in 2004. Deutsche Bank and International Energy Agency (IAE) figures on Chinese oil consumption suggest an eleven month rise in demand that is at or greater than 3-percent.

The fallout from China's announcement was mostly skepticism. Energy analysts pointed to the Deutsche Bank and IEA statistics to suggest China is for some reason providing misleading data abut their energy consumption and oil import needs. A planned OPEC increase in production capacity, in response to sharply rising global oil demands (and China's own 15-percent rise in consumption), could be postponed if China's data are accepted as accurate. The data might also help stem the rise of crude oil futures, which stand at over $60 per barrel, and which are rising in response to increased global tensions over Iran's nuclear program and due to recent attacks on oil infrastructure in Nigeria. Another announcement by China of a significant rise in oil consumption, s imilar to that in 2004, might have sparked a more rapid rise in crude oil futures. For these reasons or perhaps others, China could be attempting to disguise its actual oil demand and consumption, according to some energy analysts.

These facts about China's currency reserves, trade surplus, oil consumption, major purchases of foreign oil outside of the Middle East, and data concerning Chinese oil demand and consumption, may signal a disturbing trend when viewed in conjunction with data about overall global energy reserves. The data regarding global oil consumption and exploration is troubling itself; but viewed alongside the information about China, it could all signal imminent conflict between two nuclear powers in the most populous region in the world. While there are several ways to interpret all of this data, and several scenarios which may occur, one such scenario that appears increasingly likely is the outbreak of war between China and Russia.
To continue this analysis, it is necessary to first look at facts regarding global energy reserves, and the role of the U.S. in the Persian Gulf, to better put the information about China into the proper context. This information will then be applied directly to China and their potential decision to wage war against Russia.

According to the U.S. Geological Survey, annual oil discoveries around the world have steadily declined since 1965. For the past five years, the world consumed 27 billion barrels of oil per year. However, the oil industry only discovered about 3 billion barrels in each of those years, meaning that for every barrel found nine barrels were consumed. The U.S. Department of Energy, in a 2005 analysis, stated that peak oil (the point at which global oil production will reach its zenith and then begin to plummet) could be reached as early as 2016. This analysis also stated that the U.S. will face a "severe liquid fuels problem" if the nation does not begin planning a post-petroleum economy prior to peak oil. Further, the D.O.E. said that if such planning starts ten years prior to the peak, the U.S. will still face a decade of "hardship". If peak oil is reached in 2016, then the time to prepare a post-petroleum economy without "hardship" has already passed.

Even the retired head of Saudi Arabia's oil exploration and production, Dr. Sadad al Husseini, says that peak oil will come by 2015. He also insists that Saudi Arabia's recent claims that they could soon increase production to 20 million barrels per day are "unrealistic" and, in a warning to U.S. energy policy makers, "a dangerous basis for policy." Saudi Arabia already pumps water into their oil fields, a method used to keep oil flowing easily and a sign that a field is facing decreased production capacity.

Indeed, many experts insist that peak oil will occur much sooner than the D.O.E. or Dr. al Husseini anticipate, with some saying the peak is already here or perhaps already occurred. There is much evidence to support these contentions. Many supposedly new oil discoveries are in fact simply the result of seepage -- as oil is pumped out of a field, remaining oil moves into the empty spaces but is reported as additional oil discoveries. A major problem with calculating remaining oil reserves is that several OPEC nations simply falsify their data.

In 1982, OPEC oil ministers set new quotas on each member nation, based upon the size of that nation's oil reserves, to help regulate oil production to maintain a healthy global price for oil. The response might have been expected -- many nations simply recalculated the amount of their oil reserves to show a huge increase and thus avoid decreasing their production. Global reserve estimates shot up by several hundred billion barrels between 1985 and 1990. In 1985, Kuwait was the first nation to adjust their reserve estimates to avoid decreasing their production, so that Kuwaitis went to bed with stated reserves of 65 billion barrels of oil and awoke the next morning with 90 billion barrels. In 1988, Abu Dhabi followed suit and adjusted their reserves from 31 billion to 92 billion barrels. Iran and Iraq raised theirs as well, and Saudi Arabia adjusted their estimates in 1990 from 170 billion barrels to 258 billion barrels. In total, the Middle East raised their proven reserve figures from oilfields already identified by 300 billion barrels between 1985 and 1990. That these new estimates are for fields already identified is significant, because it means that the countries were not claiming to have discovered new oil fields, they were claiming 300 billion new barrels of oil in pre-existing fields. In addition, most major oil producing states -- especially in the Middle East and South America -- are now adding water into their reserves, as already mentioned with regard to Saudi Arabia.

The resulting statistics for total global oil reserves can be found as the BP Statistical Review of World Energy, a data source used as a standard for energy information by analysts and researchers around the globe. But BP itself notes that the data does not meet U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission guidelines for proven reserves, or even BP's own views and data on the true amount of global oil reserves. Looking at this set of data, which as already noted contains 300 billion barrels of oil that simply cannot really exist, another problem becomes immediately obvious -- since 1988, the estimates for both the Middle East and for oil reserves in the rest of the world have remained virtually unchanged. In other words, after 17 years of consumption, the last five years of which saw only one new barrel discovered for every nine consumed, total global oil reserves have remained unadjusted in this already severely doctored data. From this information, we can reasonably conclude that the claim that there are still 1.1 trillion barrels of oil reserves remaining is simply false, a figure off by at least 300 billion barrels even if we do not also adjust the figure to factor in consumption for the past 17 years.

Matthew Simmons is the chairperson and chief executive of Simmons and Company International, an energy-oriented investment bank in Houston. He is also a member of the National Petroleum Council, as well as a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, and he acts as an adviser to President Bush on oil issues and policy. According to Simmons, Saudi Arabia may have reached its peak sustainable volume of oil production 25 years ago. If not, he says, then that nation is now at or on the very edge of reaching such a peak, and their oil production will start an irreversible decline. Simmons states further that Iran, Iraq, Venezuela, Kuwait, and Indonesia have all passed their peak sustainable volumes of production. The problem is that such peaks are not evident immediately, and can usually only be seen in hindsight. The U.S. reached its peak oil production in the early 1970s, and has been declining ever since. Simmons also states his belief that sometime in the next three to five years, Saudi oil production may collapse by 30-40%.

A.M. Samsam Bakhtiari, from the National Iranian Oil Company, says that the 92 billion barrels of oil the BP Statistical Review of World Energy attributes to Iran is likely far too high a number. He agrees with NIOC's retired expert Dr. Ali Muhammed Saidi, who puts Iran's oil reserves at the much lower figure of 37 billion barrels.

Global oil discoveries peaked around 1965, then dropped fairly steadily for roughly ten years. Then there was another sudden peak, which was about 15 billion barrels less than the 1965 peak, followed by another steady decline for around fifteen years. Another peak then occurred, this one 20 billion barrels less than the previous peak (or 35 billion barrels less than the 1965 peak), and discoveries declined for five mo re years. The last peak of discoveries took place around the year 2000, and that peak was 5 billion barrels less than the prior peak (or 40 billion less than the 1965 peak). Since then, discoveries have once again plummeted. So even accounting for these occasional peaks in discoveries, each peak is increasingly smaller and overall discoveries keep declining. No major oil field discoveries have taken place since the 1970's, and it has been over 25 years since more oil was discovered than was used globally. As consumption progressively and rapidly rises, new discoveries fall at an increasing rate.

To put the issue of new oil field discoveries versus modern consumption into the proper perspective, think about the following comparison. The largest oil field ever discovered is the Saudi Ghawar field, found in 1948. That field held 87.5 billion barrels. Consider that this is the largest oil discovery ever made, yet at today's consumption rate of over 80 million barrels per day, every drop of oil in the Saudi Ghawar field would last less than three years. Current oil production is around 84 billion barrels per day, barely keeping pace with consumption.

Several expected major sources of new oil fields have turned out to be very disappointing, perhaps most notably the Caspian Sea Basin. There, as in several other suspected large sources of oil reserves, it was discovered that rather than the one large oil field expected, there were several small pockets of oil and the total amount was drastically lower than original estimates. In other places, supposedly large oil fields lie in areas such as tar-sands, where it is extremely difficult and sometimes impossible to extract the oil. Suspected large oil reserves also lie at the bottom of the ocean; but again, the time and energy, the cost and difficulty, of extraction makes it doubtful that these fields will be of any benefit in the foreseeable future. Some oil fields that are promoted as import ant in fact contain relatively insignificant reserves, such as in Alaska.

Global demand for oil is increasing sharply, fueled by China's large and energy-hungry economy and the growing demand for oil in developing countries. With the U.S. consuming 25-percent of global oil, with Europe accounting for three-fifths of consumption of Persian Gulf oil, and with China expected to consume the equivalent of three-quarters of Persian Gulf oil by 2017, it is obvious that simply these three economies are on a collision course even if current oil production rates could be maintained indefinitely. In a situation where energy reserves are actually decreasing, the emergency seems clear. One only need look to a recent statement from Chevron, to see how serious the situation is: "It took us 125 years to use the first trillion barrels [of global oil]. We'll use the next trillion in 30 [years]." Unfortunately, as already noted, it would be foolish to assume there is 1 trillion barrels of oil remaining.

In fact, Chevron's remarks raise another important point. Their statement presumes a global oil supply of two-trillion recoverable barrels. This distinction is important, because not all oil in an oil field can be recovered and used, and it is important to determine whether there are actually two-trillion recoverable barrels or a world-wide total of two-trillion barrels. If out of that two-trillion there is only one-trillion left of total global oil reserves, then not all of it will be recoverable and thus the recoverable amount of oil will be used-up much sooner than in 30 years. In an oil field, there is a point at which it costs more money and energy to extract the remaining oil than can be gained from that oil. It is presumed that maximum oil production capacity is reached when 50-percent of an oil field has been extracted, and after that point less oil is extracted and not all of the remaining 50-percent can be efficiently removed. The point at which the totality of global oil reserves reach the 50-percent point describes peak oil.

If, then, there are a total of two-trillion barrels of oil as Chevron says, and if as they said we have indeed used the first trillion, then we have reached peak oil. The available evidence indicates that if we have not yet achieved that point, then we are extremely close to it. And the dangers facing a petroleum-based society will arise much sooner than many people expect, since the impact of dwindling oil supplies will hit the world far in advance of the last drop of recoverable oil dripping from the last oil well. As oil supplies decrease in tandem with rising demand, prices will rise dramatically (although at first the price increase will start slow until momentum is built as governments and financial markets recognize precisely what is happening). But who will actually get the increasingly limited supplies of oil? Those who can afford it, and those who can control the gl obal energy supplies.

It is impossible to overstate the importance of peak oil to the entire world. The need for oil to fuel cars, planes, trains, motorcycles, boats, military vehicles and planes, is all rather obvious. But to this list we must add electricity for our homes and offices, refrigeration of foods, telecommunications, hospital equipment, streetlights and stoplights, and every other use of electricity one can think of. Then we must add to the list all of the petroleum products we have become so accustomed to that we rarely even think about them: everything plastic, from computers to toys to shopping bags to phones to car parts to pens; pesticides used in agriculture, most of which are all petroleum based; health-care products and medication; tires on cars, on planes, on just about every vehicle one can think of; and then consider that the manufacture and transport of all of these items requires oil for electricity and to fuel the planes and trucks that ship them and that fuels the car or bus a person takes to go to the store and obtain these items.

Without oil we loose all of these things, all gas and plastics and petrol products. This in turn means we loose modern agriculture and food production, the ability to survive extreme cold or heat, the ability of militaries to fight. Suddenly it becomes enormously clear how much economic and social chaos will result when oil supplies begin to finally run out, and people begin to starve to death or freeze to death or be invaded by neighboring states desperate for food for themselves. It should, then, be equally clear to imagine what any nation would be willing to do to forestall this type of calamity.

These data are a significant factor in why the U.S. is currently placing its military in key strategic nations and locations around the globe -- most notably in the Middle East and Central Eurasia, and in Africa and the Caribbean Sea Basin (a shipping route for oil from Africa, and a potential staging area for military actions into South America, where anti-U.S. sentiments are led by major oil exporter Venezuela and where Bolivia's new president has promised to seize oil and gas reserves owned by international corporations). That the U.S. is preparing for the looming depletion of global energy reserves is no surprise, nor is it particularly a secret. Since U.S. President Jimmy Carter formalized the U.S. policy of intervention in the Middle East to protect U.S. national interests with regard to oil (and creating the Rapid Reaction Force, later expanded to become CENTCOM, with the express purpose of intervening militarily to defend U.S. access and hegemony in the Persian Gulf), the U.S. has made it clear that dominance in the global energy market, and with regard to access to reserves, is non-negotiable, and the rest of the world has by and large adhered to this demand.

Of secondary importance, but still a significant issue dictating policy, is OPEC's commitment to accept only U.S. currency for oil transactions. The petro-dollar provides serious strength to U.S. economic power, helping to fuel investment in the stock market and the purchase of U.S. Treasury bills. It has been estimated by many economists that as much as half the value of the dollar arises from its position as the global reserve currency, meaning that all nations' central banks must maintain a healthy supply of U.S. dollars for their oil purchases.

The danger posed to the petro-dollar by the euro is of grave importance to the future of the U.S. economy, and the fact that Iraq switched to euros for their oil transactions was not a minor factor in the U.S. decision to invade in 2003. The switch provided Iraq with a large profit, roughly 20-percent in just a couple of years, and other nations including members of OPEC took notice. Iran and Venezuela, both OPEC members, began to shift large amounts of their central bank's reserve currencies away from dollars and into euros. Russia did the same. And the U.S. took notice.

The danger that an increasingly strong euro might trigger a complete OPEC switch to euros was very real, and the damage to the U.S. economy would be catastrophic. A drop in the dollar's value by half, capital flight out of the stock market and away from Treasury bills, default on the national debt, and an economic crash worse than the Great Depression were possibilities. At the very least, a severe economic slump coupled with a weak dollar and loss of confidence in dollar-dominated assets would occur. Shoring up the petro-dollar became a top priority, and today we can see that the dollar regained most of its decreased value and the rise of the euro slowed.

This was only possible with a sizable U.S. military force literally sitting atop most of the Persian Gulf region's oil, and with military bases and personnel placed in strategic locations in Central Eurasia. This presence al so extends over to the Horn of Africa, and into Northern and Western Africa. Not only are the oil reserves themselves within a U.S. sphere of military protection and influence, but so to are major pipelines and shipping routes in the Mediterranean Sea and across into the Caribbean Basin. U.S. dominance of the Middle East and its energy reserves is indisputable, and no nation could realistically hope to challenge that control any time in the near future.

But the near future is precisely the time in question, with regard to peak oil, and so any major oil consuming nation that wishes to forestall economic and social calamity and which cannot afford to accede to de facto U.S. control of global energy supplies, will simply have to identify and exploit some other option if it is not willing to militarily confront the U.S. in the Middle East. And these are precisely the decisions China now faces.

Keeping in mind the data concerning which nations use what amount of oil, and the staggering amount of oil China will need by the end of the next decade, it is obvious that the energy needs and interests of China cannot be met -- especially if they are to rely on the Persian Gulf for three-quarters of their oil needs, needs which conflict directly with the needs of the U.S. and Europe. China must find other ways of meeting its demand for oil, sources outside of the Persian Gulf states (with the possible exception of Iran, a point which will be addressed shortly). While the government in China has, as noted, spent large sums of money to secure deals with several oil producing states, these deals will not provide the majority of China's energy needs as the decade progresses.

This is why China is desperate to gain the pipeline from Siberia. Unfortunately, there is reason to believe that the real intent is not to simply purchase oil and natural gas from Russia. China may be in the process of securing the first stages of infrastructure to transport the energy resources from Siberia, in anticipation of an actual military seizure of that territory a few years from now. Faced with peak oil, China must either fight the U.S. to take control of the oil supplies in the Middle East, a battle they could not win for several reasons (including the fact that their major advantage -- numerical superiority -- is negated because of the distances involved and the lack of adequate supply and logistical support necessary for such a major action, not to mention the ultimate likely use of nuclear weapons in such a confrontation); or they must go take a major supply of oil from someplace else. It will not be feasible for them to simply purchase it, because in a global peak oil crisis the supply and price and control of oil will be too problematic and uncertain for China to risk not obtaining all the oil it needs. The only real option China can probably see is to use their power to seize the oil they will require to remain functioning while the world runs out of energy.

China has amassed a stockpile of U.S. dollars and Treasury bills for both short-term and long-term reasons. In the short-term, it keeps their exports cheap and increases their trade surplus, fueling their manufacturing base and helping them to also control and even to some extent intimidate financial markets in the U.S. It is in the long-term, however, where the real danger lies.

Now that China is diversifying their currency holdings into euros and other currencies, they can do significant damage to both the U.S. and Japan's economies. By dumping their dollars and Treasury bills, they can send the value of the dollar spiraling downward and seriously weaken confidence in Treasury bills and perhaps spur a dumping of those bills by other nations such as Japan and Saudi Arabia. Interest rates will shoot skyward, property values will soar, inflation will take hold, and the U.S. economy will screech to a halt, already stumbling along due to unemployment and low manufacturing statistics and high energy prices (not to mention a ballooning deficit and the war in Iraq). As goes the U.S. economy, so to goes Japan's financial markets. The combination of a bad economic downturn in the U.S. and Japan, coupled with China using all the amassed U.S. currency to purchase euros and send that currency skyrocketing, and finally added to Iran's already seriously strained relations with the U.S., could all tempt a handful of OPEC nations -- Iran and Venezuela, perhaps more -- to dump petro-dollars for euros. That could possibly be the straw that breaks the camel's back, and the U.S. might actually fall into a full-blown depression.

China, meanwhile, would see the value of their large currency reserves increase substantially in value as the euro rose even more in value once some OPEC states made the currency switch. By tying their own currency (the yuan) closer to the euro and away from dollars, China is ensuring that they are not in as much danger of losing their role as manufacturer of cheap imports. Even though a weakened dollar and U.S. economy would mean a serious decrease in imports from China, the increased imports into Europe due to the strength of the euro against the yuan could make up the difference -- and Europe has a population roughly 50-percent larger than the U.S. Any short-term negative impact against the yuan and Chinese exports would be negligible and not very long-lived, and the long-term gains would be potentially enormous. And in the context of peak oil, this part of China's strategy may be a gamble they have no choice but to take. For China to make a move against Siberia and secure the oil reserves they will need, the U.S. must be weakened and unable to respond either economically or militarily. The damage China could do using this scenario could achieve that result.

Japan would also be injured by this economic attack, and that also bodes well for China. Besides being China's biggest political and economic rival in Asia, Japan is also a rival for the pipeline to Siberia. China could force Japan out of the running for that deal, and secure the beginning infrastructure in the region they intend on invading. Additionally, a weak Japan means China might be able to exploit their position in the face of a weak U.S. and seize some valuable additional territory besides Siberia. A Chinese invasion of Taiwan, for example, would be much more possible if the U.S. lacked the economic ability to strike back from Japan and South Korea.

As a side note, this raises the question of whether China might possibly also persuade North Korea to launch a simultaneous invasion of South Korea, knowing the U.S. could not possibly respond to so many maneuvers. That North Korea's president was on a secret state visit to China recently could be viewed in this context as the beginnings of negotiations towards this very scenario. Or perhaps China is hoping to add North Korea's nuclear arsenal to their own, in terms of the nuclear threat brought into the theatre of war as a deterrent against a nuclear strike by Russia or the U.S. In the event, it's worth considering as a potential added danger to the scenario.

By being the very impetus for the rise of European currency and the strong position of the euro to take over as global reserve currency, China also mitigates the danger that the European Union would take any actions to support Russia militarily. The increased tensions between the U.S. and Russia, and between Russia and Europe over issues regarding former Soviet states in Eastern Europe, also decreases the likelihood of any outside interference favoring Russia.

Finally, again the nuclear deterrent must be noted. While estimates of China's nuclear capabilities vary, and there is certainly evidence that they lack adequate technical means to detect a nuclear launch against their own nation, no doubt China would prepare their missiles (most of which apparently require a liquid fueling process that takes several hours) for the fastest possible launch. So any attack against China and their military forces would certainly be met with a mutual launch against Russia. To this must again be added the nuclear capabilities of North Korea, which could be drawn into the conflict in several ways. Russian use of nuclear weapons against China would potentially require detonations against Chinese forces already inside Russian territory and would thus be less likely, especially since the territory in question harbors Russia's precious oil reserves. Would Russia use nuclear weapons in light of the risk of destruction of their own cities as well as their most valuable resources? Probably not. China might logically gamble that the chances of escalation into a nuclear conflict would be significantly lowered in light of these considerations.

The current political conflict between Iran and We stern nations is also relevant. China has a $70 billion oil deal with Iran. It is possible that China has been reluctantly agreeing to the U.S. and European attempts to apply pressure to Iran, simply because it is obvious that most of Iran's animosity is directed at the two Western players. Once the matter comes before the U.N., a situation that is delayed because first the International Atomic Energy Agency will first review and report on the matter to the U.N., China might choose to either abstain from a Security Council vote or actually side with Iran. The goal here for China would be for Iran to follow a course leading to an embargo against the Western allies, and China could step into the vacuum and secure an even more lucrative deal with Iran to purchase almost all of the nation's oil exports. Iran looses nothing, they strike a blow at the West, and China benefits from that as well as from increased access to Iranian oil. The danger for China is that the U.S. might take mili tary action against Iran, but if these events are properly timed by China then the economic maneuver of dumping dollars and Treasury bills and the switch to euros by Iran and other OPEC members could blunt any U.S. attempt to get into a costly military confrontation. Adding to the injury to the U.S. would be the overall increase in oil prices that would stem from an Iranian embargo targeting the West. Europe would have some protection against this since their currency value would substantially increase, thus constraining the impact of rising oil prices at least to some extent.

These conditions could easily prompt states that traditionally side with and support the U.S. in the Middle East to abandon that role, so that Saudi Arabia and Kuwait see costly consequences from remaining too aligned with the U.S. If other nations already harboring animosity to the U.S. decide to take advantage of the situation to strike an even harder blow at the U.S., Venezuela and other OPEC members might join Iran in switching to euros for transactions, and the rise of that currency would make it nearly impossible for other OPEC members to ignore. The profits they would stand to lose if they remained on the petro-dollar would likely force them to shift their transactions to euros as well. Coupled with all of the previously mentioned blows to the U.S. economy, such a move would be deadly. U.S. prestige around the world would suffer greatly, even more so if and when China invaded Russia and North Korea moved into South Korea. With the Iraq war already draining the U.S. economy, the further strain this scenario would create would make it almost impossible for the U.S. to launch military actions elsewhere on the necessary scale. Again, already shaky U.S. prestige and economic footing would degrade even more.

Prior to unveiling their plan by the launch of hostilities against Russia, China must work to keep oil prices low and to limit the realization of just how much energy they need. This is why China is downplaying their consumption of oil in their recent figures regarding consumption in 2005. They are trying to keep their own appetite for oil from driving up the costs, and they are trying to conceal how much their consumption is actually rising. One alternate theory might be that China in fact did reduce their oil consumption in 2005, keeping it modest most of the year and then drastically constraining consumption in December of that year (hence the discrepancies in relation to Deutsche Bank IEA figures) -- all for the purpose of building up a strategic reserve for the coming military campaign against Russia.

To sum up, China is using short-term tactics to disguise their true oil consumption and keep prices from rising too quickly; to build a bundle of reserve currency in U.S. dollars to keep their exports cheap and their currency undervalued; to develop multiple oil deals with nations outside of the Middle East; to secure an infrastructure deal in Siberia; and to swell their global trade surplus to amass as much hard currency as possible to finance their oil deals, manufacturing industry, and military. For the long-term, China seeks to shift their currency reserves from dollars to euros; to have a hand in convincing Iran to adopt an embargo against the West and send most of its oil into China; to cause a quick, mass devaluation of the dollar and instigate a pull-out of foreign investment in Treasury bills, to precipitate an economic crisis in the U.S. and Japan; to see OPEC drop the petro-dollar in favor of the euro, so that Europe's strong currency leads to a transfer of the Chinese export market from the U.S. to Europe; to draw North Korea closer to China politically, economically, and militarily, to advance the plan for North Korea to possibly invade South Korea and/or lend it's nuclear arsenal as leverage against Russia and the U.S.; to weaken the position of the U.S. in the Middle East and Central Eurasia in general, to head off any attempt by the U.S. to interfere in China's attempt to invade Russia and to also stymie any U.S. attempt to deal with Iran militarily; and finally, to succeed in securing the Siberian territory from Russia through armed conflict, thus taking possession of the oil and natural gas in that region.

Questions obviously remain as to how China would actually proceed militarily against Russia. However, there are some points to consider about Russia. First, the Russian state is economically weak, and they are unable to adequately fund their military forces. Likewise, the caliber of those forces is in serious question, as events in Chechnya have made abundantly clear. Any significant military action would sap much needed funding from the Russian economy, something the state simply cannot afford. The distance that would have to be traveled, by both troops and the supplies necessary to keep them at fighting levels, is daunting -- Russia having by far the largest landmass of any nation on the planet, and Siberia being a rather inhospitable territory. In fact, China would have a much easier time invading through their own northern territories and into Siberia, than Russia would have trying to send and maintain a large fighting force there.
There is evidence that Russia sees the danger posed by China, especially if Russia has properly assessed the global situation with regard to oil and the coming drastic shortages the world is about to face. Serg Ivanov, the Deputy Prime Minister and the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation, wrote a lengthy analysis (which was carried by the Wall Street Journal) of Russia's current and future military needs. He begins by stressing Russia's "firm commitment to the principle of pre-emption. We define pre-emption not only as the capability to deliver strikes on terrorist groups but as other measures designed to prevent a threat from emerging long before there is a nee d to confront it." He goes on to say, "We need to consider the implications of the so-called 'uncertainty factor'…By uncertainty we mean a political or military-political conflict or process that has a potential to pose a direct threat to Russia's security, or to change the geopolitical reality in a region of Russia's strategic interest."

Ivanov is discussing the need for Russia to be willing to act militarily to prevent or confront conflicts or political developments in areas of the world Russia considers important to their interests. No surprise there, really, since this is essentially the doctrine mentioned above with relation to President Carter and U.S. interests in the Middle East. What is noteworthy is that this comment is on the heals of Ivanov's statements about Russian willingness to launch pre-emptive military action to prevent threats that are emerging as opposed to already existing. He is declaring the willingness, and indeed the necessity, of Russia laun ching military actions in advance of potential developments (including political as opposed to military ones) that Russia deems harmful to their own interests. More importantly, he felt the need to declare it to the entire world, in writing.

In his analysis, Ivanov is saying that while Russia wishes no ill will against anyone, the best way to ensure peace is to prepare for war. He goes into detail about how the Russian military is being upgraded and new weapons systems and strategies are being developed and deployed. Regarding developing combat training, he makes perhaps the most revealing statement when he says, "…the number and level of large-scale exercises has grown to more than 50 this year. The most significant were tactical and theatre-level exercises in the Russian Far-East, Central Asia, China, and India…"

The exercises in question often involved joint training missions with forces from those other nations, but the point is that Ivanov identifies t he most significant as being in the East, relating to Asia. Joint exercises allow for the assessment of the other nation's forces; a bit of familiarity with how the other forces are organized, how they fight, and so on; and training of one's own troops for combat in those areas. All of Ivanov's comments about pre-emption, willingness to take military action in anticipation of a threat, the need to prepare for war and strengthen the Russian military, and this acknowledgement that most training and preparation involves locations to the East, are all geared to send a very distinct message: don't mess with Russia. The obvious recipients of that message are in the East.

Russia must be at least somewhat aware of how vulnerable their Siberian resources are, and that they are perceived as militarily weak and perhaps unable to adequately defend those resources. If Russia were not self-conscious about these things, then Ivanov would hardly feel it necessary to issue such public comments, particularly details about how Russia is building itself back militarily and can deal with any threat. Such comments, in fact, project precisely the opposite image, instead appearing to be the words of a nation afraid that its weakness are too obvious.

In fact, such a fear would be well-founded, and if Ivanov was attempting to send any messages to China, it is doubtful China took him seriously. The one really strong card that Russia has to play is its nuclear arsenal, and that is what China must ultimately come to terms with if they make a move against Siberia. Several reasons China might feel safe from a nuclear confrontation have already been noted above; however, there may be additional factors to consider as well.

One way China could almost assure itself that Russia would not launch a nuclear attack is if China is able to launch a 'decapitation strike' against Russia first, destroying the Russian government and most command-and-control over milita ry forces. Once Moscow was destroyed, any Chinese invasion of Siberia would almost surely succeed rather easily. Many analysts suspect that much of Russia's early warning defense system, which alerts them to any missile attacks against their country, is in a state of utter disrepair. It is known that on several occasions, this entire warning system has shut down completely. Taking into account China's proximity to Moscow, the fact that most of Russia's warning systems are built to detect a missile launch by NATO and the U.S., and the fact that once Chinese missiles were detected Russia would have precious little time to launch a retaliatory strike, it is possible that China could successfully strike Moscow without suffering a retaliatory strike.

To precipitate this, China would have to schedule a supposed 'missile test' from somewhere as close to their northern border as possible. By the time it became obvious that the missile was intended for Moscow (and China migh t even claim it is a mistake and that the missile has no warhead, to further confuse matters and delay any Russian response), it might be too late for Russia to launch a counter-attack. Or China might simply try to smuggle a nuclear weapon into Moscow and detonate it, an act which could be blamed on "terrorists" even after China invaded (an act which would be obviously opportunistic, but China would no doubt rather be blamed for opportunism than for a nuclear attack). There are no doubt other scenarios that China could employ if they wished to take this course of action. What is important to remember is that such an action would be of great benefit to any planned invasion of Siberia, and so the danger of such an attempted nuclear attack is real even if it is not highly probable.

Should China invade without a nuclear first-strike, then Russia would likely not respond with nuclear weapons, at least not initially. However, if nations armed with such weapons go to war, then the potential for a nuclear war always exists. Moreover, once one side sees that it is clearly loosing, and if the stakes are high for each nation, then there is a strong possibility that the losing side will attempt to gain some advantage by utilizing nuclear weapons on the battlefield. Once a war has gone nuclear, escalation is almost inevitable, as the other side retaliates, and the targets of the nuclear exchanges become more significant until a full-scale nuclear war in which populations of the largest cities will likely be targeted and killed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The implications of even a small-scale nuclear exchange (to the extent a nuclear exchange can be small-scale) in Central Eurasia are staggering. The death toll would be in the millions and the region would be poisoned with radiation and fallout. Since China lacks the massive nuclear arsenal of Russia, even a full-scale nuclear exchange would not quite be the global doomsday scenario that would arise from a U.S.-Russian exchange, since the total number of nuclear detonations would be barely more than half of the doomsday scenario and would be restricted to a much more narrow targeting area. But the war would take place in the most populated part of the entire world, Central Eurasia, and where a huge amount of global resources are found. The radiation and fallout would affect other large parts of the world, and the death toll from the initial nuclear detonations combined with those suffering radiation sickness and long-term related illnesses would no doubt be in the hundreds of millions. And of course, the political and economic impacts would be earth-shattering, especially in light of the scenarios leading up to the war and if North Korea were enlisted to attack South Korea at the same time.

China would have to be willing to gamble that the war would not turn nuclear, unless they devised a way to take out Moscow without any danger of being detected. Most likely, China will bet on keeping the war conventional and hope that surprise and a quick victory will make the operation a success before events spiral out of control. They might also count on Europe and the U.S. pressuring Russia not to respond with nuclear weapons. Ultimately, the realities of peak oil and the survival of China's current government combine to leave China with little choice but to place their bets and face the risk of the conflict becoming nuclear.

Whether China will ultimately embark on such a risky venture is, obviously, to be seen. However, the recent developments in relation to China, Russia, and the Middle East, and the increasingly evident crisis regarding peak oil, all combine to suggest that the possibility of a Chinese invasion of Russian territory looks more plausible with each passing day.

-----------------------------------------------

When and if China does attack the U.S., make sure you keep your dogs out of harms way. They love the taste of dog meat in the morning.
 
I belive Russia and China pretty much hate each other....However they hate the U.S. worse than each other and would cooperate in the destruction of the U.S. if they perceive they could get away with it.

Russia has the technology,China the man power.Russia knows that China will soon have the technological advantage soon,so whatever is to happen will happen within the next few years.Because Russia knows that they will have to deal with China sooner or latter.
 

Worrier King

Inactive
As Lenin predicted, the U.S. is supplying the rope to hang itself with. Unfortunatley, there aren't enough Americans capable of thinking outside of the democrat/republican paradigm to make a peaceful difference.

It appears China and Russia, using their Muslim proxys in the front lines against us, as they now escalate their ongoing war of attrition against the U.S. people, (not the be confused with the U.S. government who provides the domestic authority to work with globalists advancing a One World globalist conglomerate government/market) gets to kick the stool out from under our feet.
 

doctor_fungcool

TB Fanatic
This is slightly O.T., but I wish to post this info anyway. In a nuclear war scenario, each of these reactors would be a target. Think about it. Go to the website to look at the map. We would live in a radioactive wasteland..........so please never ever tell me that nuclear war is survivable. It ain't!


http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/operating/map-power-reactors.html

Plant Name Docket Number Reactor Type Location Owner/Operator NRC Region

Arkansas Nuclear 1 05000313 PWR 6 MI WNW of Russellville, AR Entergy Operations, Inc. 4
Arkansas Nuclear 2 05000368 PWR 6 MI WNW of Russellville, AR Entergy Operations, Inc. 4
Beaver Valley 1 05000334 PWR 17 MI W of McCandless, PA FirstEnergy Nuclear Operating Co. 1
Beaver Valley 2 05000412 PWR 17 MI W of McCandless, PA FirstEnergy Nuclear Operating Co. 1
Braidwood 1 05000456 PWR 24 MI SSW of Joilet, IL Exelon Generation Co., LLC 3
Braidwood 2 05000457 PWR 24 MI SSW of Joilet, IL Exelon Generation Co., LLC 3
Browns Ferry 1 05000259 BWR 10 MI NW of Decatur, AL Tennessee Valley Authority 2
Browns Ferry 2 05000260 BWR 10 MI NW of Decatur, AL Tennessee Valley Authority 2
Browns Ferry 3 05000296 BWR 10 MI NW of Decatur, AL Tennessee Valley Authority 2
Brunswick 1 05000325 BWR 2 MI N of Southport, NC Carolina Power & Light Co. 2
Brunswick 2 05000324 BWR 2 MI N of Southport, NC Carolina Power & Light Co. 2
Byron 1 05000454 PWR 17 MI SW of Rockford, IL Exelon Generation Co., LLC 3
Byron 2 05000455 PWR 17 MI SW of Rockford, IL Exelon Generation Co., LLC 3
Callaway 05000483 PWR 10 MI SE of Fulton, MO Union Electric Co. 4
Calvert Cliffs 1 05000317 PWR 40 MI S of Annapolis, MD CCNPPI - subsidiary of Constellation Energy Group 1
Calvert Cliffs 2 05000318 PWR 40 MI S of Annapolis, MD CCNPPI - subsidiary of Constellation Energy Group 1
Catawba 1 05000413 PWR 6 MI NW of Rock Hill, SC Duke Energy Corp. 2
Catawba 2 05000414 PWR 6 MI NW of Rock Hill, SC Duke Energy Corp. 2
Clinton 05000461 BWR 6 MI E of Clinton, IL AmerGen Energy Co., LLC 3
Columbia Generating Station 05000397 BWR 12 MI NW of Richland, WA Energy Northwest 4
Comanche Peak 1 05000445 PWR 4 MI N of Glen Rose, TX TXU Generating Company LP 4
Comanche Peak 2 05000446 PWR 4 MI N of Glen Rose, TX TXU Generating Company LP 4
Cooper 05000298 BWR 23 MI S of Nebraska City, NE Nebraska Public Power District 4
Crystal River 3 05000302 PWR 7 MI NW of Crystal River, FL Florida Power Corp. 2
D.C. Cook 1 05000315 PWR 11 MI S of Benton Harbor, MI Indiana Michigan Power Co. 3
D.C. Cook 2 05000316 PWR 11 MI S of Benton Harbor, MI Indiana Michigan Power Co. 3
Davis-Besse 05000346 PWR 21 MI ESE of Toledo, OH FirstEnergy Nuclear Operating Co. 3
Diablo Canyon 1 05000275 PWR 12 MI WSW of San Luis Obispo, CA Pacific Gas & Electric Co. 4
Diablo Canyon 2 05000323 PWR 12 MI WSW of San Luis Obispo, CA Pacific Gas & Electric Co. 4
Dresden 2 05000237 BWR 9 MI E of Morris, IL Exelon Generation Co., LLC 3
Dresden 3 05000249 BWR 9 MI E of Morris, IL Exelon Generation Co., LLC 3
Duane Arnold 05000331 BWR 8 MI NW of Cedar Rapids, IA Nuclear Management Co., LLC 3
Farley 1 05000348 PWR 18 MI SE of Dothan, AL Southern Nuclear Operating Co., Inc. 2
Farley 2 05000364 PWR 18 MI SE of Dothan, AL Southern Nuclear Operating Co., Inc. 2
Fermi 2 05000341 BWR 25 MI NE of Toledo, MI Detroit Edison Co. 3
FitzPatrick 05000333 BWR 8 MI NE of Oswego, NY Entergy Nuclear Operations, Inc. 1
Fort Calhoun 05000285 PWR 19 MI N of Omaha, NE Omaha Public Power District 4
Ginna 05000244 PWR 20 MI NE of Rochester, NY Rochester Gas & Electric Corp. 1
Grand Gulf 1 05000416 BWR 25 MI S of Vicksburg, MS Entergy Operations, Inc. 4
Harris 1 05000400 PWR 20 MI SW of Raleigh, NC Carolina Power & Light Co. 2
Hatch 1 05000321 BWR 11 MI N of Baxley, GA Southern Nuclear Operating Co., Inc. 2
Hatch 2 05000366 BWR 11 MI N of Baxley, GA Southern Nuclear Operating Co., Inc. 2
Hope Creek 1 05000354 BWR 18 MI SE of Wilmington, DE PSEG Nuclear, LLC 1
Indian Point 2 05000247 PWR 24 MI N of New York City, NY Entergy Nuclear IP2 LLC 1
Indian Point 3 05000286 PWR 24 MI N of New York City, NY Entergy Nuclear Operations, Inc. 1
Kewaunee 05000305 PWR 27 MI E of Green Bay, WI Nuclear Management Corp. 3
La Salle 1 05000373 BWR 11 MI SE of Ottawa, IL Exelon Generation Co., LLC 3
La Salle 2 05000374 BWR 11 MI SE of Ottawa, IL Exelon Generation Co., LLC 3
Limerick 1 05000352 BWR 21 MI NW of Philadelphia, PA Exelon Generation Co., LLC 1
Limerick 2 05000353 BWR 21 MI NW of Philadelphia, PA Exelon Generation Co., LLC 1
McGuire 1 05000369 PWR 17 MI N of Charlotte, NC Duke Energy Corp. 2
McGuire 2 05000370 PWR 17 MI N of Charlotte, NC Duke Energy Corp. 2
Millstone 2 05000336 PWR 3.2 MI WSW of New London, CT Dominion Nuclear Connecticut, Inc. 1
Millstone 3 05000423 PWR 3.2 MI WSW of New London, CT Dominion Nuclear Connecticut, Inc. 1
Monticello 05000263 BWR 30 MI NW of Minneapolis, MN Nuclear Management Co. 3
Nine Mile Point 1 05000220 BWR 6 MI NE of Oswego, NY NMPNS - a subsidiary of Constellation Energy Group 1
Nine Mile Point 2 05000410 BWR 6 MI NE of Oswego, NY NMPNS - a subsidiary of Constellation Energy Group 1
North Anna 1 05000338 PWR 40 MI NW of Richmond, VA Virginia Electric & Power Co. 2
North Anna 2 05000339 PWR 40 MI NW of Richmond, VA Virginia Electric & Power Co. 2
Oconee 1 05000269 PWR 30 MI W of Greenville, SC Duke Energy Corp. 2
Oconee 2 05000270 PWR 30 MI W of Greenville, SC Duke Energy Corp. 2
Oconee 3 05000287 PWR 30 MI W of Greenville, SC Duke Energy Corp. 2
Oyster Creek 05000219 BWR 9 MI S of Toms River, NJ AmerGen Energy Co., LLC 1
Palisades 05000255 PWR 5 MI S of South Haven, MI Nuclear Management Co., LLC 3
Palo Verde 1 05000528 PWR 36 MI W of Phoenix, AZ Arizona Public Service Co. 4
Palo Verde 2 05000529 PWR 36 MI W of Phoenix, AZ Arizona Public Service Co. 4
Palo Verde 3 05000530 PWR 36 MI W of Phoenix, AZ Arizona Public Service Co. 4
Peach Bottom 2 05000277 BWR 17.9 MI S of Lancaster, PA Exelon Generation Co., LLC 1
Peach Bottom 3 05000278 BWR 17.9 MI S of Lancaster, PA Exelon Generation Co., LLC 1
Perry 1 05000440 BWR 7 MI NE of Painesville, OH FirstEnergy Nuclear Operating Co. 3
Pilgrim 1 05000293 BWR 4 MI SE of Plymouth, MA Entergy Nuclear Generation Company 1
Point Beach 1 05000266 PWR 13 MI NNW of Manitowoc, WI Nuclear Management Co., LLC 3
Point Beach 2 05000301 PWR 13 MI NNW of Manitowoc, WI Nuclear Management Co., LLC 3
Prairie Island 1 05000282 PWR 28 MI SE of Minneapolis, MN Nuclear Management Co. 3
Prairie Island 2 05000306 PWR 28 MI SE of Minneapolis, MN Nuclear Management Co. 3
Quad Cities 1 05000254 BWR 20 MI NE of Moline, IL Exelon Generation Co., LLC 3
Quad Cities 2 05000265 BWR 20 MI NE of Moline, IL Exelon Generation Co., LLC 3
River Bend 1 05000458 BWR 24 MI NNW of Baton Rouge, LA Entergy Operations, Inc. 4
Robinson 2 05000261 PWR 26 MI from Florence, SC Carolina Power & Light Co. 2
Saint Lucie 1 05000335 PWR 12 MI SE of Ft. Pierce, FL Florida Power & Light Co. 2
Saint Lucie 2 05000389 PWR 12 MI SE of Ft. Pierce, FL Florida Power & Light Co. 2
Salem 1 05000272 PWR 18 MI S of Wilmington, DE PSEG Nuclear, LLC 1
Salem 2 05000311 PWR 18 MI S of Wilmington, DE PSEG Nuclear, LLC 1
San Onofre 2 05000361 PWR 4 MI SE of San Clemente, CA Southern California Edison Co. 4
San Onofre 3 05000362 PWR 4 MI SE of San Clemente, CA Southern California Edison Co. 4
Seabrook 1 05000443 PWR 13 MI S of Portsmouth, NH North Atlantic Energy Service Corporation 1
Sequoyah 1 05000327 PWR 9.5 MI NE of Chattanooga, TN Tennessee Valley Authority 2
Sequoyah 2 05000328 PWR 9.5 MI NE of Chattanooga, TN Tennessee Valley Authority 2
South Texas 1 05000498 PWR 12 MI SSW of Bay City, TX STP Nuclear Operating Co. 4
South Texas 2 05000499 PWR 12 MI SSW of Bay City, TX STP Nuclear Operating Co. 4
Summer 05000395 PWR 26 MI NW of Columbia, SC South Carolina Electric & Gas Co. 2
Surry 1 05000280 PWR 17 MI NW of Newport News, VA Virginia Electric & Power Co. 2
Surry 2 05000281 PWR 17 MI NW of Newport News, VA Virginia Electric & Power Co. 2
Susquehanna 1 05000387 BWR 7 MI NE of Berwick, PA PPL Susquehanna, LLC 1
Susquehanna 2 05000388 BWR 7 MI NE of Berwick, PA PPL Susquehanna, LLC 1
Three Mile Island 1 05000289 PWR 10 MI SE of Harrisburg, PA AmerGen Energy Co., LLC 1
Turkey Point 3 05000250 PWR 25 MI S of Miami, FL Florida Power & Light Co. 2
Turkey Point 4 05000251 PWR 25 MI S of Miami, FL Florida Power & Light Co. 2
Vermont Yankee 05000271 BWR 5 MI S of Battleboro, VT Entergy Nuclear Operations, Inc. 1
Vogtle 1 05000424 PWR 26 MI SE of Augusta, GA Southern Nuclear Operating Co., Inc. 2
Vogtle 2 05000425 PWR 26 MI SE of Augusta, GA Southern Nuclear Operating Co., Inc. 2
Waterford 3 05000382 PWR 20 MI W of New Orleans, LA Entergy Operations, Inc. 4
Watts Bar 1 05000390 PWR 10 MI S of Spring City, TN Tennessee Valley Authority 2
Wolf Creek 1 05000482 PWR 3.5 MI NE of Burlington, KS Wolf Creek Nuclear Operating Corp. 4
 

Chronicles

Membership Revoked
EVERY TIME I hear about this China I think of this..

The ( HE ) here could be NorthCom that bushy force today.


Daniel 11

41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon. 42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.

43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.

44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

(( The EAST is IMHO CHINA ! ))




45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.



Rusty I hope bringing in a TAD of scriture was ok with you.. If not I will remove from YOUR thread..
 
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