TEOTWAWKI - Already In Progress [9/20/05]

INVAR

Sword At-The-Ready
As the Chinese would say; we certainly live in interesting times.

So I thought I'd rant about these interesting times, and capitalize on the pulse this board and many others are expressing - to try and put it into words.

I suppose I could say this is ©2005 INVAR - but what does it matter? It's the truth.


TEOTWAWKI - Already In Progress


There is an awakening among many Americans that something is horribly wrong - but few can completely isolate or pinpoint exactly what that is or means. An anxiety is building among many of us who watch and prepare - and there is an unease among the willfully oblivious and the evening newswatcher that things in general are almost surreal, and that we as a nation have just walked through an unknown door to a future of uncertainty and difficulty. A lot of folks have a gut feeling, that a major shoe is about to drop that might start to unravel the entire fabric of our nation.

But no one is certain what that shoe is, or when it will drop...only that it is near. Is Rita the next shoe? An Al Qaeda hit? A stock market collapse? Housing market drop? Or will all of this fall at once like dominoes?

There are so many things stressing the fabric of the country that to list them all is like reading a laundry list of impending doom. Aside from the storm catastrophes of the last two years, there are fault lines across everything from politics, race, religion, class, sex and economics to who and what we are supposed to be as a nation and how we should conduct ourselves.

Toss in the fact we are in an undeclared war that due to political correctness, refuses to recognize our enemy as he is and to understand what is truly at stake. Add a thinly stretched military, our porous borders, and now natural disasters on a scale unknown on our homeland, and it is easy to understand why there is such a zeitgeist of worry.

It seems like a switch has been thrown in the last couple of years - and many of us are watching the next threat wondering aloud and silently if it will be the trigger of TEOTWAWKI.

The truth is, TEOTWAWKI is here - and already in progress. It is just not instant - and completely catastrophic like so many fictional accounts we have become accustomed and entertained since just before Y2K. Rita just looks to be the next deep cut.

America is past her height and zenith - and is now in a rapid decline. A decline that is picking up speed and being noticed around the world. A notice - that has awakened the world to the possibilities of a world without American dominance and influence on the world stage.

That I believe is the real zeitgeist - and we are feeling that with each successive situation and disaster this nation endures.

What all of you have been doing on this board - is to notice, chronicle, and point out the facts that many Americans are just now waking up to. We are a house of cards in every fashion imaginable - and we as a people have allowed, and contributed to our present condition, having dug up and removed our solid rock foundation in favor of one that is really nothing but stilts on sand.

We imagined a killer blow of some sort - setting a cascade of dominoes falling down, when it has been more akin to 'here a little and there a little'; death by a thousand cuts. But now those cuts are becoming frequent and deep and real pain is being felt for the first time for generations who never experienced 'tough times'.

What we are living in right now - is a time when an unseen protective hedge has been removed, and the winds of change are blowing through our midst. It was a hedge that has kept our folly and self-absorbed mismanagement and indifference from taking us out of the picture sooner.

But now, - our time is up, and I dare say the painful consequences of the last several generations is reaping what it has sown.

Our Republic is being replaced by a democracy at the demand of an ignorant and self-absorbed constituency being led by pseudo saviors hungry for power. Justice is being replaced with tyranny. Righteousness with evil. Responsibility with blame. Self-reliance with dependence. Wealth with debt. Production with consumption. Saving with credit. Logic with emotionalism. Foundation with folly.

• We have gone from the largest Creditor nation in the world, to the largest debtor nation the planet has ever seen.

• Our money is fiat paper tied to nothing of value except confidence.

• The populace has no savings rate - but is in debt itself.

• We no longer manufacture, we consume and provide services mainly engendered to entertainments and comfort.

• We import more than export.

• We grow just what food is needed for profit, and import the rest.

• Development is replacing farms.

• We are addicted to drugs and supplements for physical and mental health.

• Everything is litigated.

• Our military is stretched thin and commitments too great to maintain.

• Other nations are having to come to OUR aid in times of calamity.


Those things alone are the mechanisms by which our republic and nation can collapse and fall on their own merits. Imagine a few Katrinas, a major earthquake, another terror attack and the unspoken truth that we as a nation are not capable of coping and recovering from such things, and you begin to understand the impetus for all the anxiety you are feeling.

That is the reality we are waking up to - and what it means is that we are in the process of collapse.

The stability and prosperity of the society we all grew up in - is gone.

TEOTWAWKI

Tomorrow, is no longer certain. Another disaster seems to be brewing in the Keys - and many are wondering aloud "What's next?"

I don't think I want to contemplate 'what's next', but there is truly one key that contributes to all the woe befalling us - and that is that God, morals, religious and national principles are being removed from our society by a vocal minority, and tolerated and accepted by the majority. Sin, nonsense and debauchery are celebrated, protected and promoted, and we deceive ourselves into thinking it is more righteous to tolerate it in the name of 'diversity' than to stand on what is right. A little leaven leavens the entire lump and while we as a nation have the form of religion and character - we deny it's use and power in favor of iniquity disguised as moral superiority.

That is fact, whether we want to deny it, rationalize it, discount it or not. Our Hedge of Protection has withheld His hand from us. He did so for a few hours on 9/11 - and our national repentance was superficial and insincere. Within weeks we were back at the machinations of our decline even more fervently than before.

So now we have what we are faced with today, and instead of looking at our national character - everyone is looking to blame politicians and someone in government for how we are responding to the calamities, instead of asking why we are being plagued with them. Of course - the science and secular will focus on global warming or some other convoluted 'weather weapon' being used and again place blame outside of where it truly belongs. But then, we as a nation have been given over to strong delusion.

But taking God and religion out of the picture for a moment - all one needs to do is look at history and trends to see where we have arrived as a nation and former republic.

We have gone from vision, to struggle, to greatness, to superpowerdom, to decadence, to decline, to tyranny, and then to collapse. Same path as every other Republic that preceded us - and our Founders warned us this would happen. The same Founders being vilified, ignored and rewritten by the education Elites.

I had the recent privilege of listening to a gentlemen who spent most of his life living in the former British colonies of Africa - notably Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe), Ghana, and other areas of the former British Commonwealth during the hand over of British territories to the indigenous peoples clamoring for independence over the last 40 years. In each case - a relatively stable and wealthy country under British control - fell to utter economic ruin and total anarchy and dictatorship within a year or two - and sometimes months after the Brits pulled out.

The world and the media celebrated independence for these nations, and decried the colonial system - even while thousands and millions were being butchered by insane tyrants who plundered these places.

To him, the order and stability of American and British supremacy and influence in the world is giving way to the wild winds of beastly anarchy and oppression as we retreat from our global roles and shrink into ourselves. That is evidence of decline and collapse in historical context he said.

His experiences are riveting, mind-numbing and horrifying. He said he never imagined he would witness the end of the British empire in his lifetime - yet he has watched it collapse in less than 2 decades. His experiences, along with his study and knowledge of world history, trends and biblical prophecy - truly helped me to see that not only is history repeating, but that like the fall of British pre-eminence in the 50's through the 1970s, America is now in the process of rapid decline, and very soon - complete irrelevance in the globe.

Someone will take our place.

TEOTWAWKI is in progress, one domino at a time, and only now are some beginning to notice that the rest of the pieces of our national stability and prosperity are at risk.

Deep down, many of us have an unspoken understanding that we cannot cope or handle any more additional disasters and possible terror strikes - as evidenced by the aftermath of Katrina - and still maintain the way of life we have known for the past 60 years of prosperity and wealth.

That fact has not gone unnoticed by the rest of the world. From Jihadists to the other world powers - they realize what many of us are having a hard time grasping; that America is vulnerable, bankrupt, and unable to absorb and recover quickly from the things befalling us.

As such - we will not have the influence in global politics as we had. We will not and cannot respond to other threats elsewhere in the world while we are licking our own wounds. We no longer have the confidence of the free world to protect and bail out our interests.

We are become beholden to foreign nations, and as the injury to our gulf oil production, shipping arteries and supplies increases - our dependence on foreign sources to keep us afloat will only go so far.

That is a fact we are in decline. Add a few more hurricanes, an earthquake, terror attacks and we have collapse.

That does not mean we cease to exist altogether, but that the life of wealth, prosperity, world superiority and security our grandparents left us at the end of WWII - is gone.

TEOTWAWKI - is already in progress.

The British and American empires will be a minor abberation and blip in the course of history with the millenias of savage beastly empires that preceded us. What vile beast will take shape to replace the vaccuum we leave behind is the thing of nightmares and religious prophecies that take the world to a brink we cannot even get our minds around.

But it is coming. Perhaps sooner than any of us truly realize.

TEOTWAWKI - is already in progress.
 

helen

Panic Sex Lady
The 48-hour ban on Panic Sex is suspended early.

Someone get a sling for my butt ...



Panic Sex Lady wearily gets back to work ...
 

lynnie

Membership Revoked
Invar, that is beautiful! You articulated it all so perfectly. Thank you! This one is a keeper for sure.
 

Safecastle

Emergency Essentials Store
Good to see you around again, Invar! :sal:

Your well-written perspective is worth serious consideration. There is much in the way of your causative analysis I agree with.

I do believe however that the inevitability of impending doom and unavoidable despair for the nation is still a bit exaggerated.

There have always been obstacles to American greatness ... it has never been handed to us on a silver platter. So we face some more obstacles.

I'll give one example of where things are looking up--and it is a BIG picture development. The war on terror has made an impact on the world few would have dared imagine four short years ago. The despots of Afghanistan and Iraq have been removed from power. Pakistan has been wrestled into submission. The Libyan position of being a major terror switchbox has been disconnected. Now even N. Korea is seemingly being talked down from its scary precipice. Iran--they're in negotiations and are getting more and more lonely. Syria? Seems they have never been more of a non-issue as they are becoming today--I expect they will be coming out of the cold very soon.

So, sure, there remain plenty of things to be wary of, not the least of which is God's natural wrath. But my point is, the worst thing we can do is to give in, to grow weary of the fight. Historically, life has been easy for few Americans. Being so blessed in recent times as we have does not give us license to abdicate the position of defender of right when we enter our own period of trial.

I know in my heart that we're a long way from throwing in the towel. In fact, in spite of recent hardships, we have yet to TRULY be tested as a nation. Some will fail the test if it does come, but those who stand firm will bring us all through it, God willing.
 

Mzkitty

I give up.
Invar, what you say is true. Thank you for putting it all so precisely and encompassingly.

I do not, however, believe GOD took away any protective hand from us. We did it to ourselves by tolerating everything in the name of making a living, and money and profit at the upper levels. Everything bad flourishes for love of money.

I don't see that there was any so-called short-lived "repentence" after 9/11, not at all.

To truly repent (change way of thinking) and save this nation, so many thing would have to change that it's not funny. And I've mentioned those things before. But if people believe that, they don't know how to change anything. People can't just pay lip service.

Well, I don't see any other way. You know things are coming to a head when a 20-year old young man who avoids books like the plague suddenly says to you last night, "I figured out we never really won the American Revolution, and Britain still really owns us." They know.

And the clowns and monsters really are out there in the darkness, waiting to pounce on the feast we have left them with all our hard work.

I'm tired. I gave up a while back.

:dvl2:
 

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Altura Ct.

Veteran Member
I agree too.

We have lost the glue that in the past has given us the cohesiveness and strength to overcome.
 

milkydoo

Inactive
Agreed that we are finished. You layed it out very well. However, I still see the globalist undertones are present in your post........those that feed the mentality that it is America's job to beat the rest of the planet into, not just submission, but into mini-America's. A nice fantasy to be sure, but an absolute disaster in practice. Real patriots don't act upon such dillussional pipe dreams; only tyrants do.

America was supposed to be the LightHouse of Freedom, shining a light for all the peoples of the world so they could see what could be acheived if they fought for their own freedom.

Instead, we turned into the GEPF, the Global Earth Police Force, running after boogie men and scary weapons every few years. By now, virtually the entire planet has scars from the American military machine, and not much good to show for it.

We may be in TEOTWAKI right now, but the path toward it was carved in stone long ago. This is not something we could have stopped in its' tracks 10 or 20 years ago......not realistically, anymore than we can stop it now.

Soon, America will be a virtual 3rd world country, and the rest of the world will cheer as we pay the price for our arrogance and corruption. They will be happy to see the Constitution replaced by a U.N. document; happy to see the Beast morph into a sheep like them.
 

lili

Senior Member
Invar, I loved your eloquent post. I agree with you. I don't know if you haven't been around, but just this morning I was thinking, "Where's Invar?" For some reason, your all time hilarious post about how the world will end popped into my mind. I think it was because I ate an entire pizza and pint of chocolate peanut butter ice cream last night, and was as sick as a dog today. I really was thinking about you, and here you are!
 

Woolly

Inactive
Well said, Invar, well said!

Now the question that we must ask and answer is how do we turn the matter around? But you said correctly: Another Katrina or two and we have had it.

I noted with interest a post elsewhere on the board where the poster related that FEMA had promised his refugee center caring for Katrina victims, food. It never came, because they (FEMA) couldn't find the food to provide (The Center had to rely upon the donations of food from the public to make do). If we are hit again (Rita?), it will quckly become a disaster of such scale that Katrina will be seen as a mere footnote to history. We are, at this moment, leterally on a knife's edge between stability and chaos. It can go either way in the next 72 hours or so. Those who are not prepped are likely to be toast.

Thank you for a well considered post! Post's like yours are one of the main reasons I come to TB2K.

IMO,

Woolly
 

ssbn sailor

Senior Member
Invar:

I couldnt agree with you more, but I would like to add my opinion to yours:

I believe we are actually witnessing is a slow, steady collapse of Western Civilization. It's happened three times before in known history, and I guess the fourth is well on the way. The Babylonian, Greek, and Roman Empires all collapsed under their own weight and foundered.

The Collapse of the Roman Empire, who managed to absorb much of the three previous Western Cultures, brought about the Dark Ages.

To justify my statement, lets look at Europe. They suffer from the exact same problems we have, to a large extent. Bloated budgets, uncontrolled legal and illegal immigration, lack of ability to project military power of much significance, and fourth generation terrorist warfare on their streets. They are a largely secular "anything goes" group of nations today, with vast amounts of foreign immigrants.


The Europe of today does not resemble historical Europe. Simply stated, they are not replacing the native population that is dying with children. Instead they are losing native population and gaining in immigrants to replace them. In a few years, Europe will be predominantly foreign and predominantly Muslim.

Couple this with your excellent analysis and you see the beginning of a trend. There will be no safe place of refuge to go when civilization collapses. There is no amount of food you can store to ride the storm out. The plain and simple fact is this: life as we know it will change all over the world, permanently. Our grandchildren will have grow up in this world. The best we can do is prepare them for the world to come.

It's not a pretty picture, and I'm not going to gloss it over so we can make it easier to swallow.
 

timbo

Deceased
Thank you Invar for posting your usual eloquent topics.

I think as you do that we have been sliding down a slippery slope and we are going faster. We got to the slope some time ago and our movement at first was minute but as time went on its gone faster and faster.

And we cant slide upwards can we?

I like to think that I am an optimist,trying to find the good path that as an individual and as a nation would take us to better things,but I just cant wear the rosy bloom anymore.

When 9/11 happened I was angry. Angry at the hideous monsters that would do that but also angry that as I get closer to the end of my time on Earth that our lives are filled with dread and tension.
A selfish anger but very real.

Now I have even more to be angry about.

And I cant do a thing with the anger except prepare...as an individual and a responsible husband to my wife.

Every man/woman for themselves will be the new motto.
 

nharrold

Inactive
Well, you started out very nicely, Invar, but you almost lost me when you began dragging God and religion into your discussion.

However, I persevered through that digression, and enjoyed the rest of your essay. Nicely said.

That aside, I have to say that I do agree with the rest of your perceptions and discussion.

I feel that much of our current-day problem is due to the fact that our schools have just not done their job. Even when I was in school back during the War, there was almost no class discussion of how and why this country was established, how it has evolved, and what it means to be an American. Today, there is absolutely nothing of the sort being offered to our youngsters, most of whom can't read, write, or do simple arithmetic.

As far as I can see, we have declined so far down that slippery slope to a police state that recovery will not be possible. Our politicians and "leaders" are nothing but "political whores", to paraphrase Vincent Bugliosi (if you don't remember him, think Charles Manson). But we brought the Schumers, Kennedys, Feinsteins, Pelosis, Clintons, et al, upon ourselves; we have cut our own throats.

Some of our problems are due to the rampant ignorance, stupidity, apathy, and indifference of the bulk of our population, who aspire to nothing more elegant than a cold beer and Monday-night football or American Idol. This is not a curable situation.

I believe that our country is well on the way to becoming a third-world has-been nation, reduced to kissing the butts of the up-and-coming countries in the world in a vain attempt to maintain even a semblance of freedom and good living.

Unfortunately, the bulk of Americans will not recognize this decline for what it is until it is much too late to even try to reverse it.
 

Lone Wolf

Lives on TB
Invar

Very well put

Like most prognostications, the actual direction the decline will take is still up for grabs...and you may be correct in all you have said....although I see a little drift here and a little drift there....esentualy...though, you are just about 100% in your disertation.

referencing Him...

He did not turn away from us...we turned, as a people, away from Him...and in so doing, have begun to lose that "Hedge" of protection we , as a people have enjoyed for so long.

In spite of what "nay-sayers" belch, as is their right..those who are inclined to do so......do so on a daily basis, and I pray with them, and for them.

lw
 

Texian

Contributing Member
Very insightful Invar. I think that Rita may be another nail in the coffin. Reinsurance companies took a large hit with Katrina and another will be a financial disaster.

I think that the situation in the world today must get worse before it can get better. We have too many that believe that they are "entitled" to a good life. Too much welfare and disability.

However I do think that there are enough people in this country that remember the stories about the hardships our forefathers went through. I think there are also many that believe in the ideals that the USA is supposed to stand for. Many of these individuals have been in the silent majority for several years now, silenced by political correctness. The coming hardships will test us all, but hopefully we will endure and persevere. I guess I still believe in this country, and its' people, warts and all.

Pray that hurricane Rita fizzles...Texian
 

tosca

Inactive
Invar (and Timbo)

A "keeper" post Invar and Timbo I like the way you are thinking.

My father fought in WWII. My Great, Great Uncle was US Grant. I believe that if we, as a nation, would say, "enough" we could turn it around. I would begin with writing laws that say, "no more outsourcing of our jobs" because I believe that the opportunity to have a decent job is fast going out of the window and that is what kept us strong for so long. I believe we have made much progress over the last 200 years...including equal rights, etc.

I believe is what we need is one strong leader who says.....to the large corp's....no more job losses...bring your companies back or get out and stay out. We buy American....not Walmart...each and every one of us. We, right here on Timebomb could begin a revolution by refusing to buy any imported product!!! Can you imagine what we could do? If each and every one impressed their relatives and friends that each time we pay China, etc. through Walmart that we are giving our jobs away...and that we should stand up and rufuse to buy anything that is not "Made in the USA" we could make Walmart, etc. bow down and get out of Dodge. Look at them as our enemy and refuse to feed them!!!! It is a beginning....and it is something we could all do. How about that guys? Nothing could stop the movement once it started.........nothing!

ARE YOU READY TO TAKE A STAND?

Mari Susan
 

JohnGaltfla

#NeverTrump
Well stated. The sad part is 80-90% of the poplulation have watched the car wreck, don't understand why it happened, don't care about the damage, and don't realize the wreckage is about to fall on their heads.

May we live in interesting times? No.

These are the end times for America.

God help the unprepared.

:dot5:
 

Dixie

Inactive
My heart is heavy and saddened with much of what I see happening but I will continue to pray and hope while preparing and keeping abreast as best I can.

Thank you for expressing a great deal of how I feel with your usual eloquence.
 
Yep. Well, too bad you're preaching to the choir, eh, Invar? Feel better? Sorta burns on ya in times like these, doesn't it?

But guess what, this ISN'T TEOTWAKI. Not by a long shot. Oh, I take your points seriously, and you know I agree in principle, but these are warning shots across the bow, folks. We aren't even having fun yet. There WILL be a "tipping point" where it will unravel so fast it will make your head swim, unless you are among the truly prepared. I sure don't hasten the day. Oh, it could indeed be very soon - none can say with certainty, but heed the warnings.

Tras
_____________

"They who have put out the people's eyes reproach them of their blindness."
John Milton, 1642
 

Army Girl

Inactive
But what about the "It Takes a Village" government nanny band wagon? :dot5: People are going to go ballistic, total chaos that we can only imagine.

The toilet has been flushed. We are currently on the outer swirl, and events will keep happening faster and faster as we decend down the pipe. :dot5:

Good time to get out of those big cities, maybe now or never. :dot5:



:dstrs:
 

SmartAZ

Membership Revoked
What you call TEOTWAKI historians call a dark age. What you call a house of cards historians call cooperation and integration.

Every dominant culture has gone through a dark age, not just three or four. Details differ, but the general pattern is the same every time. You can read the history HERE. This knowledge will help you understand exactly what to prep for in the near future. For one thing, family and community ties will become a lot more important than they are now. Unfortunately, "near future" might be from 5 to 200 years.

It's amusing to try to predict which country will rise to power after the end of the coming dark age.
 

INVAR

Sword At-The-Ready
Thanks for all the kind replies.

It's a sobering thing to look at the big picture in light of history, trends and current events to recognize that we as a nation and people are on a downward slide.

If history is any example - should our national behaviors continue as they are - and as the government grips an iron fist to maintain control - our fate is sealed with the republics that came before us and collapsed.

We do have an option to stem the tide, and attempt a reversal of TEOTWAWKI - (those of you who do not subscribe to God or religion can stop reading) if we as a nation of one people humble ourselves before God, seek His face, change our ways, and return to our Founding Principles - He will forgive us and heal our land.

That is the recipe - but as some posts will point out - we are no longer a singular people with a common set of core values - so such calls may only incite ridicule and anger.

It is interesting to note that Benjamin Franklin made the observation during the Constitutional Convention that "...God raises up and brings down empires.." one has to wonder if such a simple understanding is now lost on an intellectually vain people drunk on our own prowess, because if so - then God will set His face against us - and laugh at us in the days of our calamity when we cry out for help.

I have a few comments based on some things said:

JC Refuge wrote:

I do believe however that the inevitability of impending doom and unavoidable despair for the nation is still a bit exaggerated.

There have always been obstacles to American greatness ... it has never been handed to us on a silver platter. So we face some more obstacles.


While this is essentially true - the fact remains that we have been fiscally and morally irresponsible. There are consequences for that - and they are rearing their heads when the prosperity they blossomed and thrived under is beset with difficulty, disaster and trials nearly three generations of Americans have no experience or concept with.

The war on terror has made an impact on the world few would have dared imagine four short years ago. The despots of Afghanistan and Iraq have been removed from power. Pakistan has been wrestled into submission. The Libyan position of being a major terror switchbox has been disconnected. Now even N. Korea is seemingly being talked down from its scary precipice. Iran--they're in negotiations and are getting more and more lonely. Syria? Seems they have never been more of a non-issue as they are becoming today--I expect they will be coming out of the cold very soon.

JC, you make my English gentleman's point that American and British leadership in the world has kept the wild beasts of anarchy and despotism at bay and checked. As we decline in global influence - these wild beasts will develop and grow until they are capable and ready to take our place. What kind of dark age will follow our departure?

Being so blessed in recent times as we have does not give us license to abdicate the position of defender of right when we enter our own period of trial.

Agreed and Amen. I'm not tossing in the towel - but waking us up to face reality. For if we have a chance to pull a Nineveh - then it will be from the people on up - not the other way around.

We have to consider these things we face with the prospect that TEOTWAWKI is in progress. Take immigration and population as just one example to consider. Middle class Americans have less than two children per couple, immigrants and foreigners among us are more than double that in birthrate, many of them who do not hold any allegience to America whatsoever, even though they live here. How long can that go on before Americans might become a minority in our own nation? Add racial tensions and class warfare to that mix - and well....you get the idea. We are not the same people who got us through WWII. We are fractured and divided.

That's a fact. We are no longer One People under God.


Milkydoo wrote:

However, I still see the globalist undertones are present in your post........those that feed the mentality that it is America's job to beat the rest of the planet into, not just submission, but into mini-America's. A nice fantasy to be sure, but an absolute disaster in practice. Real patriots don't act upon such dillussional pipe dreams; only tyrants do.

It was never our Founders' intention that we 'beat the world into submission'. It was their intention (and God's intention too I might add) that we become an example nation that other nations sought to emulate. A live by example nation.

Real patriots live and act on the principles that truly give us our liberty - and NONE of our liberties come from the hand of men, unless we surrender them.

And surrender them we have - almost wholesale.

What is disconcerting is the belief among many intellectuals that to have such a mindset about liberty and leadership is delusional, if not dangerous. Sorry, but that is one of the reasons we are in decline - a runaway trend of self loathing and redefinition.

nharrold wrote:

Well, you started out very nicely, Invar, but you almost lost me when you began dragging God and religion into your discussion.

I bet if you replace God and religion with 'Foundational Principles' you will find we are in more agreement than you think.

I cannot apologize where I believe and understand our blessings come from, but I'd bet we can agree that the principles that were our bedrock have been tossed, and that we are suffering the consequences of doing so.

Tosca wants to know:

ARE YOU READY TO TAKE A STAND?

Then I submit it begins with each and every one of us individually to do so, and to get our freinds, neighbors and fellow Americans around you to see the need to make a stand, to humble ourselves and change from the course of destruction we are on.

That's the stand.

Otherwise we will probably all find ourselves taking a stand at a relief center or in the doorway of a shattered home with an AR-15 holding off looters.
 

Safecastle

Emergency Essentials Store
What I find depressing is how few folks here are going to be part of a solution ... any solution. To me, that means your choice is to be a part of the problem.

It seems pretty obvious that about as far as many HERE now are willing to go these days is to stock up their own food, fortify their own stores, and then cry about how bad things are while they do little more than wait for the grim reaper to come calling.

To what end? What's the point of preparing for an epic struggle to survive, if you're packing it in before the game even starts?

I don't know, but I guess my idea of preparedness is diverging from a good many folks here. The solutions I'm thinking of are not about trying to hide away like a squirrel and do nothing but blame everyone else for what's becoming of me. Nor are they about inflating problems way out of proportion before they ever happen.

To me, people who are prepared have to be the folks who are there for the folks who are not.

People who understand the importance of preparedness before the need actually strikes need to be the ones to WORK at bringing the message to those who are yet in the dark about it.

Do you feel powerless to make a difference? Then you are. And it seems the feeling is contagious.

When your personal "test" does arrive, if it's not already started (think about it), will there be any pride, honor, and strength in your demeanor? Will your selfish behaviors do any justice at all to your proclaimed belief system? How will those moments that your choices are being made define you for those who will remember?

Is it really now only about "me and mine" detaching from the world? :rolleyes:

To me, THAT's a fantasy gone wrong.
 

INVAR

Sword At-The-Ready
SmartAZ said:
What you call TEOTWAKI historians call a dark age. What you call a house of cards historians call cooperation and integration.

Every dominant culture has gone through a dark age, not just three or four. Details differ, but the general pattern is the same every time.....
It's amusing to try to predict which country will rise to power after the end of the coming dark age.

You make some interesting points, but I think we are talking the same thing.

TEOTWAWKI is decidedly from OUR OWN perspective of the world as we have known it undergoing a total change.

It is important to note - that no empire or nation going through a 'dark age' has ever recovered to regain the pre-eminence or power it once had before.

There have been attempts to be sure - (ie: the Holy Roman Empire from the ashes of Rome's fall in 466) but NONE of them recapture the power, wealth or influence they once had.

And yes - it's the same general pattern every time, which would put us at roughly the decline and collapse portion of the spectrum.

Who rises in our place? My bet is not just one country - but a conglomoration of them acting together.

Think vultures circling wounded prey.
 

ocd

Inactive
I usually agree with you Invar. BUT there are some misleading statements.
As being the biggest debt nation we are not close. Japan, Thats right Japan gets the honer. As for growing enough food for profit and import the rest. Well I own a farm my grain has never been sold in the USA.. We exported it all. If people really new how much grain our government bought and destroyed they would be appalled. I have seen with my own eyes. As for savings rate. People do save money and invest. Why is the USA home ownership some of the highest in the world. People of the United States do not realize that the average citizen lives better than the average of other nations.

http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fields/2186.html
 

Mzkitty

I give up.
ocd said:
I usually agree with you Invar. BUT there are some misleading statements.
As being the biggest debt nation we are not close. Japan, Thats right Japan gets the honer. As for growing enough food for profit and import the rest. Well I own a farm my grain has never been sold in the USA.. We exported it all. If people really new how much grain our government bought and destroyed they would be appalled. I have seen with my own eyes. As for savings rate. People do save money and invest. Why is the USA home ownership some of the highest in the world. People of the United States do not realize that the average citizen lives better than the average of other nations.

http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fields/2186.html

And the FOOD is being destroyed because...............???

Take a guess. Now that's disgusting.

:dvl2:
 

ssbn sailor

Senior Member
JC Refuge said:
What I find depressing is how few folks here are going to be part of a solution ... any solution. To me, that means your choice is to be a part of the problem.

It seems pretty obvious that about as far as many HERE now are willing to go these days is to stock up their own food, fortify their own stores, and then cry about how bad things are while they do little more than wait for the grim reaper to come calling.

To what end? What's the point of preparing for an epic struggle to survive, if you're packing it in before the game even starts?

I don't know, but I guess my idea of preparedness is diverging from a good many folks here. The solutions I'm thinking of are not about trying to hide away like a squirrel and do nothing but blame everyone else for what's becoming of me. Nor are they about inflating problems way out of proportion before they ever happen.

To me, people who are prepared have to be the folks who are there for the folks who are not.

People who understand the importance of preparedness before the need actually strikes need to be the ones to WORK at bringing the message to those who are yet in the dark about it.

Do you feel powerless to make a difference? Then you are. And it seems the feeling is contagious.

When your personal "test" does arrive, if it's not already started (think about it), will there be any pride, honor, and strength in your demeanor? Will your selfish behaviors do any justice at all to your proclaimed belief system? How will those moments that your choices are being made define you for those who will remember?

Is it really now only about "me and mine" detaching from the world? :rolleyes:

To me, THAT's a fantasy gone wrong.


JC:

Excellent observation.

When I made my post above, I was only looking at things from a purely academic point of view. Now lets get personal.

I'm an American, born and bred. I have stood for, and will continue to stand for, freedom until the day I draw my last breath. I been around the world twice and know other cultures. None have the freedom we have now, and we now have less than we used to have.

If TEOTWAKI is on the horizon, and the inevitable fall of our national culture is imminent, my highest duty becomes the preservation of freedom and liberty for other generations. There is no other choice.

I must take care of myself, thats true. But my duty to my children, grandchildren and other future generations, is to make their world a better place than it was when I arrived. Its something bigger than me, and I take the responsibility.

I've sacrificed, suffered, and put my life on the line for freedom most of my life, so this isnt just the idle ramblings of a disconnected internet voice. I really mean it, and I am prepared to put my life on the line if the time should come where I have to.

I would hope others feel the same way. If they dont, then I am still comforted by the fact that a few people can change the course of history.

regards
 
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