Flu 'n Famine Update; Movin' to Montana Soon?

Alan2012

Inactive
"I don't know what we could do about it except say, 'We're
screwed.'"

"You can get rid of the 'if' because it's going to occur," said
Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and
Infectious Diseases.

Steven Hoffman, an audience member at the Council forum, rose to
say that the experts' stark warnings had convinced him "to get in
my car and move to Montana or something." "It won't help,"
[Laurie] Garrett told him.

----------------------

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/health/articles/050616/16avian.htm

Avian flu: 'We're screwed' if it hits soon

Health experts and officials shook up a breakfast meeting in
Washington this morning with more alarm over what they see is an
inevitable avian influenza pandemic and public-health emergency.
Also today, World Health Organization officials confirmed the
first case of avian flu in a farmworker in the island nation of
Indonesia. Known as avian flu because it infects primarily
chickens and waterfowl, the officials fear that the virus will
mutate and become a human disease. Because this strain has never
circulated through the human population, people would have no
innate immunity if they were infected. Officials compare the virus
to the 1918 pandemic that hit one third of the population and
killed between 1 and 5 percent of those infected. This strain,
known as H5N1, could be at least that deadly and perhaps more so,
especially for young and healthy people who would very likely die
from an immune system reaction to the disease, as happened in
1918. Today, if the pandemic hit, the number of dead could be as
high as 360 million worldwide.

"You can get rid of the 'if' because it's going to occur," said
Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and
Infectious Diseases.

It may not occur this year, or next, he said, "but [the threat] is
not going to go away." The disease has currently crossed over to
humans in Asia, but only among people who have very close contact
with chickens or who take care of the sick. It has killed at least
54 people in Asia but is not now communicable in the way that the
more common and less lethal human influenza viruses are.

The virus "is due to spin out of this bird population" that it
currently infects, said Michael Osterholm, the director of the
Center for Infectious Disease Research at the University of
Minnesota. When it does, the fast pace of global transportation
and trade is sure to carry it around the world in a matter of days
if not hours, the officials said. And while most states have plans
in place to deal with public-health emergencies, many of those
plans have yet to be tested in real or simulated situations. If
the pandemic were to hit today, said Osterholm, "I don't know what
we could do about it except say, 'We're screwed.'"

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http://www.canada.com/health/story.html?id=818669da-e961-42a9-9590-83a282ed5215

Pandemic could create serious and sustained food shortages, expert
warns.

June 16, 2005

(CP) - An influenza pandemic would dramatically disrupt the
processing and distribution of food supplies across the world,
emptying grocery store shelves and creating crippling shortages
for months, an expert warned Thursday.

Dr. Michael Osterholm suggested policy makers must start intensive
planning to figure out how to ensure food supplies for their
populations during a time when international travel may be
grounded or severely cut back, when workers are too sick to
process or deliver food and when people will be too fearful of
disease to gather in restaurants.

Food and other essential goods like drugs and surgical masks will
be available at best in limited supplies, Osterholm cautioned in
the July/August issue of Foreign Affairs, which devoted a number
of articles to the threat of pandemic influenza.

He saved his most flatly worded warning, however, for a news
conference organized by the Council on Foreign Relations, which
publishes the respected journal. In an interview from Washington
following the briefing, he repeated his blunt message of how dire
things would be if a pandemic starts in the short term.

"We're pretty much screwed right now if it happens tonight," said
Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research
and Policy at the University of Minnesota.

Osterholm said the "just-in-time" delivery model by which modern
corporations operate means food distribution networks don't have
warehouses brimming with months worth of inventory.

Most grocery store chains have only several days worth of their
most popular commodities in warehouses, he explained, with perhaps
30 days worth of stock for less popular items.

He pointed to the short-term shortages that occur when winter
storms threaten communities, then suggested people envisage the
possibility of those shortages dragging on for somewhere between
18 months and three years as the expected successive waves of
pandemic flu buffet the world.

"I think we'll have a very limited food supply," he said in the
interview.

"As soon as you shut down both the global travel and trade . . .
and (add to it) the very real potential to shut down over-land
travel within a country, there are very few areas that will be hit
as quickly as will be food, given the perishable nature of it."

Osterholm has been one of the most vocal proponents of the urgent
need to prepare for a flu pandemic that could sicken at least a
third of the world's population and kill many millions. However,
he is not alone in fearing the world may be facing a pandemic,
widely viewed as the single most disruptive and deadly infectious
disease event known to humankind.

The lingering outbreak of the H5N1 avian flu strain that has
decimated poultry stocks in wide swathes of Southeast Asia has
influenza experts the world over losing sleep over the possibility
the highly virulent virus will mutate or evolve to the point where
it can spread to and among humans, starting a pandemic. AC 4-ever
User ID: 393 6/16/2005 11:20 pm EDT Re: Pandemic could create
serious and sustained food shortages, expert warns.

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http://my.webmd.com/content/Article/107/108562.htm

Warnings Grow Dire on Bird Flu Threat

U.S. Officials and Experts Complain of Catastrophic Danger

June 16, 2005 -- U.S. health officials and infectious disease
experts have been sounding the alarm for more than a year on the
deadly potential of a widespread pandemic of the bird flu
troubling Southeast Asia.

But their warnings have become unmistakably ominous as they
struggle to convince the public and policy makers of the need to
prepare for the mass casualties, chaos, and devastation that will
likely result if the disease spreads across the world.

As of June 14, 103 people have been infected with bird flu in
Vietnam, Thailand, and Cambodia, according to the World Health
Organization. Officials yesterday also disclosed the first
reported case in Indonesia.

Normally, 104 cases of any disease would hardly grab the attention
of public health experts. But bird flu is different. More than
half of the cases have been fatal, suggesting an unprecedented
level of harm for a modern flu. Humans have no natural immunity to
the virus causing the disease, known as H5N1, and no vaccine is
available.

In congressional hearings and on television, officials have
repeatedly advised the public of the potential for millions of
casualties if bird flu gains the ability to easily spread from
birds to people or between humans themselves.

Bird Flu Warnings Get Stronger

But the warnings have now become decidedly darker as officials
warn of a catastrophic economic shutdown and a global political
crisis if bird flu strikes an unprepared world.

"This is much larger than a public health threat. The vast
majority of the world just doesn't get how vulnerable we are,"
says Michael Osterholm, MD, associate director of the National
Center for Food Protection and Defense in the Department of
Homeland Security and a former bioterrorism advisor to the Bush
administration.

Federally run tests of an experimental bird flu vaccine are under
way and due to yield preliminary results later this summer. Even
if it's effective, no one expects manufacturers to be able to
quickly make enough to protect the U.S. population.

Osterholm complains that U.S. officials and companies have not
planned for the widespread logistical disruptions that would
result if bird flu were to spread within the next couple of years.
His warnings range from inadequate planning for hospital
overcrowding to the fact that the U.S. market has only 2.5-week
supply of caskets.

Local and federal agencies have not planned for widespread
disruptions to schools and workplaces as the public is told to
stay home and gymnasiums are converted to emergency medical
facilities, he says. Travel restrictions and a run on vital
supplies, such as masks able to filter flu viruses, would "no
doubt" lead to an economic shutdown, he adds.

What to Do?

Asked at a Thursday forum hosted by the Council of Foreign
Relations what can be done to immediately prepare for a bird flu
outbreak, Osterholm says there's probably little we can do at this
point.

What can the U.S. do to prevent the continued spread of flu from
billions of Asian chickens and ducks? "The bottom line message is:
almost nothing," says Osterholm, who is also a professor at the
University of Minnesota.

World Community Unprepared

Others offer equally stark warnings that the U.S. has not engaged
foreign governments over how nations will react in the event of a
global pandemic and economic standstill. Poor and middle-income
governments have already begun to complain that they are being
left out as industrialized countries make deals to buy stockpiles
of antiflu medications, says Laurie Garrett, the council's senior
fellow for global health and a former journalist.

"We have no agreed-upon mechanisms of any kind," Garrett says.
"This could turn into a big, bloody mess."

Bush administration officials told lawmakers two weeks ago that
they are hard at work completing a national flu response plan
governing issues such as quarantines, hospital capacity, and
distribution of emergency pharmaceuticals.

Anthony Fauci, MD, director of the National Institute for Allergy
and Infectious Diseases, acknowledged in an interview that
officials' public statements about bird flu have become unusually
stark. He attributes the warnings to concerns over bird flu's
apparent harm and to the lack of human immunity.

Officials are also trying to galvanize support for new laws that
would give pharmaceutical companies incentive to produce large
amounts of vaccine against bird flu and other more common types of
flu. "That's the thing that we keep trying to drill at," he says.

Fauci says that "the administration is very much up there" in its
level of activity in flu planning.

Meanwhile, other experts remain largely unconvinced.

Steven Hoffman, an audience member at the Council forum, rose to
say that the experts' stark warnings had convinced him "to get in
my car and move to Montana or something."

"It won't help," Garrett told him.
 

Deena in GA

Administrator
_______________
So since they are saying that the young and healthy will be the most likely to die, does that mean we shouldn't be taking supplements, etc to boost our immune systems?

Also, that means that a country's recovery will be harder if the young and healthy = stronger are gone.

All in all, these reports are extremely unnerving.
 

Alan2012

Inactive
Deena in GA said:
So since they are saying that the young and healthy will be the most likely to die, does that mean we shouldn't be taking supplements, etc to boost our immune systems?

Also, that means that a country's recovery will be harder if the young and healthy = stronger are gone.

All in all, these reports are extremely unnerving.


They do indeed have an alarming tone to them. I cannot remember high
public health officials ever sounding so doomy.... referring (e.g.) to the problem
of a shortage of CASKETS... (!!!).... er.... excuse me?

You should by all means take your vitamins.
Stock up, WAY UP, on crystalline ascorbic acid.
Buy several kilos. Try www.beyond-a-century.com
This is the most important single item, apart from food
and water.
 

Onebyone

Inactive
Yeah I thought the casket statement was eye opening too.

then suggested people envisage the
possibility of those shortages dragging on for somewhere between
18 months and three years as the expected successive waves of
pandemic flu buffet the world.
Guess we need to prep more food. Finally got enough rice and beans for a year but better get that up to a couple of years.

Wonder if Black Elderberry is going to work on killing off this virus flu like it does other types?
 

doctor_fungcool

TB Fanatic
Onebyone said:
Yeah I thought the casket statement was eye opening too.


Guess we need to prep more food. Finally got enough rice and beans for a year but better get that up to a couple of years.

Wonder if Black Elderberry is going to work on killing off this virus flu like it does other types?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.............so how ya going to heat your place?
With all that rice and beans.................it certainly won't be too difficult!
 

tanstaafl

Has No Life - Lives on TB
If you want more along these lines, read "The Hot Zone" by Richard Preston (c. 1994). It's an account of how ebola made its way to Reston, Virginia in 1989. The monkey house in the book was near a bike path on which I commuted to work, so I had my own very close (but completely unknown) brush with this situation. One of the scariest things (at least the way I remember it) in the book is the interview at the end with a doctor who gave the now-standard "it's not if, it's when" response and then mentioned that the next big pandemic already has a name ... Slate Wiper (presumably as in, "wiping the slate clean and starting over").
 

Alan2012

Inactive
Ascorbic Acid Catechism (essential background info)

Alan2012 said:
You should by all means take your vitamins.
Stock up, WAY UP, on crystalline ascorbic acid.
Buy several kilos. Try www.beyond-a-century.com
This is the most important single item, apart from food
and water.


http://www.orthomed.com/titrate.htm
Vitamin C, Titrating to Bowel Tolerance, Anascorbemia, and Acute
Induced Scurvy

http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/mega_1_1.html
Vitamin C: How Much Is Enough?

http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/197x/klenner-fr-j_int_assn_prev_med-1974-v1-n1-p45.htm
Significance of High Daily Intake of Ascorbic Acid in Preventive Medicine

http://nutri.com/49/
The Treatment of Poliomyelitis and Other Virus Diseases with
Vitamin C

http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/anthrax.htm
Vitamin C Against Anthrax

http://www.smartlifeforum.org/newsletters/Levy_2003_04_10.htm
Electrons, Toxins and Disease [anthrax, smallpox, etc.]

http://www.orthomed.com/unprimed.htm
The Vitamin C Treatment Of Allergy and the Normally Unprimed State
of Antibodies

http://www.orthomed.com/nonrate.htm
Vitamin C: The Nontoxic, Nonrate-Limited, Antioxidant Free Radical
Scavenger

http://www.orthomed.com/faces.htm
The Third Face of Vitamin C

http://www.orthomed.com/unique.htm
Unique Function of Vitamin C
 

ioujc

MARANTHA!! Even so, come LORD JESUS!!!
Maybe THIS is why my heart has been POUNDING for the past WEEK!!! I am somewhat "nervous" by nature, but this past week, I have had episodes of my heart racing and pounding. I know it's not heart disease, it's just not...I'm healthy as a horse and it never happens with exertion, mostly when I am sitting still and having my "quiet time" with the Creator of the universe :shkr: ...(I call Him God...but you may have some other name)
Anyway, I have VERY strong feelings that something is VERY wrong about to hit us....I PRAY I'm wrong! :confused:
 

Amazed

Does too have a life!
That's just outright scarey. I thought we were doomers but Fauci and Osterholm have me beat by a country mile.
 

Alan2012

Inactive
TB2k Moderators Please Take Note!

Amazed said:
That's just outright scarey. I thought we were doomers but Fauci and Osterholm have me beat by a country mile.

Yo!

I do believe that those two should be pre-registered and extended
honorary Senior Member status here on TB2K. Wouldn't it be a gas if
a guy like Fauci actually did show up here?

:-)

Alan
 

lars

Membership Revoked
"Pandemic could create serious and sustained food shortages, expert
warns"


The ultimate prep: get fat
 

Hansa44

Justine Case
doctor_fungcool said:
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.............so how ya going to heat your place?
With all that rice and beans.................it certainly won't be too difficult!



Now I know why masks are so important
:msk: :rofl:
 

bearwash

Inactive
Deena in GA said:
So since they are saying that the young and healthy will be the most likely to die, does that mean we shouldn't be taking supplements, etc to boost our immune systems?

Probably. I would be real careful with immune-system boosting supplements with this avian flu. Those could make things much worse if a cytokine storm occurs (an overactive immune system causing lung problems -- the last thing you need).

Airducts get clogged and cells no longer properly absorb oxygen. This is what makes the Cytokine storm so deadly in certain epidemic strains, such as bird flu.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-cytokine-storm.htm
 

ioujc

MARANTHA!! Even so, come LORD JESUS!!!
Actually, with all the seniors on SOOOO many medications for angina, diabetes, strokes and other medical problems, many of them will be the first to go.... :shk:
 

Tundra Gypsy

Veteran Member
I'd like to know which kind of Vitamin C to purchase; isn't there Vitamin C made with rosehips? Isn't ascorbic acid a little hard on the stomach when taken in large doses? Anyone know which kind to buy? Thanks
 

Onebyone

Inactive
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.............so how ya going to heat your place?
With all that rice and beans.................it certainly won't be too difficult!

Oh I have a bottle of Ginger to take care of that problem. Just a pinch at each meal and no problem ;)
 

Onebyone

Inactive
Deena,

I think the reason the young and healthy will go is they have lived on the immunizations and not had the real diseases so their bodies don't have the ability to fight back like us older folks who lived through all the childhood sicknesses.
 

Alan2012

Inactive
Tundra Gypsy said:
I'd like to know which kind of Vitamin C to purchase; isn't there Vitamin C made with rosehips? Isn't ascorbic acid a little hard on the stomach when taken in large doses? Anyone know which kind to buy? Thanks

1. Rose hips is an herb that is naturally high in vitamin C, but not nearly
high enough to have the effect described in the papers I posted. Stick with
pure crystalline ascorbic acid (or mineral ascorbates), for by far the best value.
If you want to take rose hips in addition, for flavonoids or other naturally
associated factors, then go for it.

2. It is not hard on the stomach, but if you take the free acid (not mineral
ascorbates; free acid without a buffer) you will acidify your system
significantly. This is potentially good, and bad. The "good" is that an acid
system is better for fighting germs. There is a substantial medical literature
from earlier in the 20th century (mostly 30s and 40s) on the use of
hydrochloric acid, INTRAVENOUSLY, to stimulate phagocytosis and to help
resolve infections. Pretty amazing. But anyway, there is reason to believe
that a more acid pH might help deal with bugs in the acute phase. However,
you do not want to STAY acid for a long time, because this will leach minerals
out of your system and result eventually in bone loss. Further, if you take very
large quantities of free ascorbic acid, (i.e. if you get TOO acid), you might
suffer from some short-term side effects such as canker sores. So the bottom
line is: take it easy, but take it. Just a few grams of free acid are OK, surely.
Probably up to 10 grams will not cause a problem. But if you go for the major
major doses -- 20 grams and up -- you will want to buffer the stuff at least
partially. Either use mineral ascorbates (calcium ascorbate, say), or else take
some alkali with the stuff, such as sodium bicarb (baking soda), or generic
Tums (calcium carbonate). Or, still better, an alkaline magnesium such as
magnesium oxide.

One point to keep in mind when planning all this is that free ascorbic acid
crystals are a lot more stable, long-term, than mineral ascorbates. Free
ascorbic crystals, kept dry and cool, will probably last for many years, even
decades. Just have some alkali to go with: calcium carbonate, mag oxide,
whatever.

Alan
 

Alan2012

Inactive
vitamin C again

One more thing: a friend wrote me and said you can pick up
ascorbic crystals at trader joe's for 10 bucks a pound. NOT BAD.
NOT BAD AT ALL. If it is true. (I assume it is.)
 

Troke

Deceased
".... This strain,known as H5N1, could be at least that deadly and perhaps more so, especially for young and healthy people who would very likely die
from an immune system reaction to the disease, as happened in
1918. .."


Well, so much for the theory that this is a plot to get rid of retired people and cut back on SS costs!

As a child, I often thought it unfortunate that the leading business men in my small town had no sons to succeed them, only daughters

It was not until I started reading the local newspaper files for 1918, that I found out why. They had died of the flu in college. The daughters survived because they didn't go.
 

astrogirl

Inactive
tanstaafl said:
If you want more along these lines, read "The Hot Zone" by Richard Preston (c. 1994). It's an account of how ebola made its way to Reston, Virginia in 1989. The monkey house in the book was near a bike path on which I commuted to work, so I had my own very close (but completely unknown) brush with this situation. One of the scariest things (at least the way I remember it) in the book is the interview at the end with a doctor who gave the now-standard "it's not if, it's when" response and then mentioned that the next big pandemic already has a name ... Slate Wiper (presumably as in, "wiping the slate clean and starting over").

The Ebola Reston site on Isaac Newton Square is now a day care center.
 

CGTech

Has No Life - Lives on TB
These latest reports are getting to be downright "frantic" on the part of the WHO and the doctors.

I would not be surprised to see all h*ll break loose all at once with pandemics, earthquakes, war. Especially considering what the SC did today re the 10 Commandments.......... :shk:
 
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