PREPS PART 19: communincations.. ham, SW,FRS and CB

LilRose8

Veteran Member
If TSHTF and the grid went down, we would need to communicate with others.

A basic prep item is a transistor radio or crank radio.

What about more sophisticated ways of talking with others.......ham, CB, FRS, SW.....even walkie talklies.

Let's hear your choices, the reasons why you have and use them and tips for beginners who might be interested in something more comprehensive.
 

LoupGarou

Ancient Fuzzball
I have two Amateur radios in my pack (BOB) and a few more stashed in various places:
Yaesu FT-817 and VX-5, and in modified ammo cans, another VX-5, (2) Kenwood TH-78A's, a TH-28A and a TM-241 with a KPC3 in a third ammo can.
I have made a few dozen various homebrew antennas for the lot.

For non-ham communications I have a several FRS radios for use with family, friends and neighbors. I also have quite a few dozen extra packs of FRS radios for neighbors or barter later. I have bought bulk NiMH and NiCd batteries as well as a few 12V and solar battery chargers. Plenty of extra solar panels.

I also have bought plenty of extra parts and tools to make and repair the whole bunch. This includes:

1000 feet of RG8M Coax
1000 feet of Belden 9913
3000 feet of green THHN 12Ga wire
1000 feet each of red, black, white and green of THHN 10Ga
3 Portasol Butane soldering irons with extra tips.
2 ColdHeat soldering irons.
5 packs of silver bearing solder
Connectors, lots of connectors!
Typical spare components that are prone to fail on the equipment
Fuses, plenty of fuses
60-70 12V AGM and gel cell batteries.
Spare LED lights and flashlights (more barter items)
and an assortment of other components so I could build or repair other items.


Loup Garou
 
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Phil Ca

Inactive
When Radio Shack closed out there own FRS mobile radios I bought several. They have a magnetized base with the antenna and radio in a housing that sits on the roof of he car. The controls and mic are on a cord and there is also a power cord. theses radios worked very well on a trip from napa Valley to San Francisco. Over the road here were no problems. In SF when large buildings got in the way it wss jsut a few moments and we were in contact again. if you can still find hose they would make a great mobile commo unit. The hand held FRS radios work with them as well and if you are at a park, shopping mall or sports comples they work very well.

You will notice that kids at theme parks will be calling their parents about which attraction to go to next and where they want to eat.

The GMRS/FRS como radios are also ideal. The GMRS is a band reserved for businesses but if you are careful you should not get traffic. If you do you can change the channel. Keep your mssage short and cryptic, use few words and it should not bother anyone.

I used to have a $5.00 CB scanner radio that operated off a battery. It copied all bands and made it easier to listen in. If something came up that was important enough I could turn on the regular.radio and talk or listen.

I make it a point to carry a portable CB and FRS radios on road trips. What with the gas prices being so high we do not do road trips very far now. We also carry the cell phone that practically has become a necessity over he past few years. My son left me the portable "ham" rig when he moved to Switzerland. He has the operator's license that is no good there. I figure in an emergency it will not make a lot of difference. i probably would use it for scanning and listening pretty much.

Another radio that should be in everyone's commo kit is a portable scanner for EMS, police and fire. These are true lifesavers in an emergency. You can get a current list from most Radio Shacks. Some of the newer ones that have younger managers may not even have a scanner on in the store.

When I was in Vietnam I ordered a portable air band scanner radio with analog tuning. It was also equipped with RDF and it was easy to pick up interesting radio signals. Our CO was very tight with his infomation that he parsed out to his troops. With my air band radio I could hear the FAC,(Forward Air Controller) calling for arty rounds and flares and the ordnance from fast movers from the air force and navy.

It will be necessary to pay a visit to Costco to stock up on batteries for all your rdio and commo gear. a good rule of humb is to have a reserve of batteries for each item. Fihgure the amount for each unit and add two extras for back up. If you canget the recharger type batteries you can save on some batteries. You need elecricity or a solar charger.

I also keep a small pocket TV in the kit as well. I have an auto adapter and antenna booster also. All the commo gear fits in a medium sized nylon, padded gear bag.
 

LoupGarou

Ancient Fuzzball
After working in the labs that were (among other things) studying both EMP production designs (MHD, Axial Compression, CDX, Nuke, and others) as well as effects and countermeasures, I figure that the US is not the only group thinking about a non-lethal (at least directly) method of taking CCCI offline quickly and without warning. The Soviets were planing to launch up to eleven over the pole, praying that at least four make it. These could (by all estimates) knock out at least 60% of the communication grid and 30%-50% of the power grid (depends on many factors, (I feel a whole lot less)). I am sure NK, China, Iran, and many others are also looking into this. I figure that the extra 8-10 pounds of equipment in my pack could be useful. This includes three 5 watt flexible solar panels (Coleman/ICP), and a small 12V/7AH AGM battery. I can charge batteries and run equipment night and day. I figure bartering goods will be useful, but the knowledge on how to repair/make items is far better.

Learn all you can, knowledge and your soul are the ONLY two things that humans can't take from you. If life bottoms out the people that will survive the best are the ones that can fix and create. You can only barter/trade for as long as you have items, you can repair with just your skills.


Loup Garou
 

cryhavoc

Inactive
This is all great if you are really into commo.

What's a poor prepper like me to do? I don't even know what a TH 27A/56-57 is!

Is there a somewhat simple solution for my situation? Can you guys who are in-the-know about such matters advise me on what I need? Mind you, I'm very much a 'non-commoite'.

cryhavoc

"...he who has ears, let him hear."
 

LoupGarou

Ancient Fuzzball
Cryhavoc,

I'm not sure what gear you already have, if any, but I would look to buy at least three things:

First, Grundig makes a shortwave/AM/FM radio that has a light (now LED) and can be recharged by cranking (not the quietest method, but will work at night unlike solar panels). The price for this little marvel is around $40. I believe it is model FR200. This is what will tune in your news even if local/national stations are down.

The second set of radios (2 or 4 per set), is a set of FRS/GMRS radios. These come in many flavors, makes and models, I would look for either Motorola or Cobra. Don't worry too much about quoted range or rechargeable battery packs. The range is quoted for "Ideal" (read laboratory) conditions. Figure one half to one and one half mile per watt of transmit power, FRS is limited to one half watt (about a mile), GMRS (needs license to legally transmit, .5 to 3 Watts output (1 to 5 miles)). Price range is between $17 and $100 a set. There are a few GMRS "real" radios that take it higher (7-8 watts, up to 12 miles), but you will pay way more for them. These are what you are going to talk to others near you with, your SO/family, your neighbors, and your friends. As for the ones that come with rechargeable "packs", make sure that they will run on standard (loose) batteries as well. The packs usually need to be charged in a cradle that is plugged into the wall outlet. No Power, No Charging, No Comms! Look for ones that don't use packs, or if you like one that does, make sure it can work on standard batteries as well (I know the Motorola units will).

Next buy some rechargeable NiMH batteries and a 12V recharger (Walmart, Duracell, $19, comes with 4 AA batteries). You can also find small solar chargers for around $20-$30. This is just as important as the first two. YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE CARRYING 100-500 AA BATTERIES AROUND WITH YOU IF TSHTF!

These above things are what I would consider bare minimum.

If you can afford more, I would look into a general coverage scanner (40-520MHz + 700-1000Mhz, or as much of those ranges as you feel comfortable spending on). Radio Shack has a few good ones (one has a nearfield lock to automatically grab nearby transmissions without knowing what exact frequency, for around $120).

OR

If you could afford a little more, get two small handheld Amateur radios and pass the test to get your license (and the rest of your family/group do the same). The added range is just the first benefit. Most of them will work as scanners, some as shortwave receivers, and all have at least one Amateur band they can transmit on. This means not 14 or 22 channels like FRS/GMRS, but hundreds if not THOUSANDS of frequencies that you can use. I keep my Yaesu VX-5 near me at all times. It can receive shortwave, AM, FM, TV (sound), Airplanes, Military, FRS/GMRS, and much more. It can transmit on three bands 6m (50-54MHz), 2M (144-148MHz) and 70CM (420-450MHz) (I'm not mentioning modifications here...). All in a radio about the size of a deck of cards. New, I believe they are still in the $250-$300 range, but I have seen them for much less on ebay. If you get one like this, you don't need to spend money on a seperate scanner and shortwave unless you want them as backup. If you are willing to commit to taking the test and passing it, this is the way to go.

Loup Garou
 

LilRose8

Veteran Member
Loup Garou... THANK YOU this is exactly the kind of information that's needed.

Anyone else with any advice for folks who aren't techie-minded?
 

cheesesteaks

Senior Member
I have the VX-5 also and it is a great radio to have. In order to transmit you do need a license and I strongly suggest you get a license if you plan on transmitting. You could be fined up to 10,000 and a year in jail for transmitting without one. If, God forbid, our country was invaded or nuked I don't think the FCC is going to be checking if you have a license so it could be a great radio to have in that situation. It can be modified to transmit on the FRS/GMRS bands. Here is a website with all the latest ham gear and much more. KC2NOD
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/index2.html
The VX-5-
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/ht/1795.html
 

cryhavoc

Inactive
Thanks a ton, LoupGarou! That's perfect! Have Visa - will travel!
By the way, would you suggest a portable scanner, or a 'base' model?

cryhavoc

thanks for the links, cheesecake and crawlingtoy!
 

Stephen

Inactive
I think Loup has pretty much nailed it. As much as I enjoy having the ham radio stuff (I have the no-longer-issued Advanced Class license), that should NOT be a high priority.

Number one is a good receiver that will get local stuff as well as short wave. If you've got that covered, all else is just "good to have" rather than "gotta have".

Secondly would be a pair of FRS radios. Some folks complain about their short range, but I see that as a major asset. It means that battery drain is lower, and the chance of being heard by someone you don't want to be heard by a lot lower. I figure that FRS is for ranges where I can see the other person (or could if there weren't trees in the way), and that's about it. Note that if you don't have someone specifically in mind to talk with, there's not much point in having FRS.

CB radio fits somewhere between FRS and Ham. If you've got either FRS or Ham, I don't see much point in also having CB unless you've got someone specific in mind to communicate with, and they are also using CB.

Finally, ham radio would be at the bottom. Yes, it's great to have, and may well the the ONLY way to communicate over any kind of distance, but it's generally not going to make a big difference in survival or not. By all means, get it if you can, but don't feel like you're unprepared if you don't.
 

macten_1

Membership Revoked
I don't know anything about radio communications but with Ohio being blanketed with FEMA trucks it might be interesting to listen in on a scanner. I see that some of them have TrunkTracker III technology. Is this technology worth it? What would you guys be looking for in a handheld scanner?
 

Splicer205

Deceased
Geez LilRose. Wish I could contribute. No, that's not true. When the grid goes down, I'm going to enjoy the silence while it lasts. It won't last long though because Splicer has little hand held thingies that he occasionally tries out. I shut if off as soon as he goes out. :lol:

DS has a ham radio and a license to operate it, but since his license has an alphabet agency issuing it, and the terms he uses when discussing it are foreign, and I'm too old to learn foreign, I can't contribute.

I do have a shortwave though. Just a little Grundig, but it's great. It never asks me questions or expects an answer. And I can shut it off at will and not be startled by a strange voice blurting out in the night.
:spns:
 

Double_A

TB Fanatic
cheesesteaks said:
I have the VX-5 also and it is a great radio to have. In order to transmit you do need a license and I strongly suggest you get a license if you plan on transmitting. You could be fined up to 10,000 and a year in jail for transmitting without one. If, God forbid, our country was invaded or nuked I don't think the FCC is going to be checking if you have a license so it could be a great radio to have in that situation. It can be modified to transmit on the FRS/GMRS bands. Here is a website with all the latest ham gear and much more. KC2NOD
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/index2.html
The VX-5-
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/ht/1795.html

If we get nuked or attacked they will just do the same as they did during WWII, ban all Ham radio communications
 

RC

Inactive
cryhavoc said:
This is all great if you are really into commo.

What's a poor prepper like me to do? I don't even know what a TH 27A/56-57 is!

Is there a somewhat simple solution for my situation? Can you guys who are in-the-know about such matters advise me on what I need? Mind you, I'm very much a 'non-commoite'.
."

Don't worry, I've been a ham for about 30 years, and I have no idea what a TH 27A/56-57 is either :) It appears to be the model number of a radio.

In answer to your question, it mostly boils down to who you want to communicate with, and under what circumstances. If you want to find out what's going on in the rest of the world, a battery AM/FM radio will probably give you the most bang for your buck. I have a couple of the crank-up radios which are fun to have, but frankly, for the cost, you could probably stockpile a lot of batteries.

A shortwave radio is nice to have for getting news from outside your area. Quite good ones can be had for $30 or so. You can spend thousands on a shortwave receiver, but if the goal is just to receive some news from outside the area, a cheap one will do the job.

If all radio stations in your area are off the air, and you want to know what's going on in the outside world and don't have a shortwave radio, be sure to listen to the AM radio at night, as you will get stations hundreds or thousands of miles away. Generally, your car radio is probably the best AM radio most people own.

As far as communicating with others, you do need to think in terms of who you want to talk to. Obviously, they need the same type of radio as well. For short distances (depending on conditions, between 100 yards and a couple of miles), cheap FRS radios will do fine. For longer distances (about 1-10 miles, depending on conditions and most importantly, the antenna) CB's or GMRS radios with an external antenna will work. In most situations, the GMRS radio _with a fairly good external antenna_ will work better than the CB. But CB radios can be had very cheaply.

It's quite easy to get a ham license these days. For the entry Technician license, you just need to pass a 35 question test. Even if you know nothing about the material, I think most people could pass it after a few hours of cramming and memorizing. It's better to understand the material, so I would recommend taking more time to study, but the actual test is not that hard. With that license, you can use VHF, which is normally short-range. But with some thought to antennas, you could easily set up reliable communications over 100 miles or so. Also, by using repeaters (which would probably not be there in a SHTF scenario), you can easily communicate long distances with just a handheld radio.

In order to use HF (shortwave) frequencies, you need to pass a slightly more difficult written test, and also pass a 5 word per minute Morse Code test. Then, you can easily communicate worldwide. However, if you want to communicate with a particular person at a particular time, conditions might not be favorable. But in general, you can communicate worldwide.

In our case, my wife also has her Technician ham license, and we have 2 meter FM in the cars and at home. We can communicate directly (without repeaters) in most places we might happen to be. Through repeaters (which, again, probably won't be there in a SHTF scenario), we can communicate reliably wherever we are. In case of emergency, we have specific frequencies we would tune to to find each other.

My father in law is also a ham, and out of the area, and we would like to communicate with him in case of emergency. Therefore, we both have lists of times and frequencies covering the whole 24 hours of the day. (Different frequencies work better at different times of day, so we can't just have one frequency). If both of us were trying to contact the other, we would probably hook up in a few hours.

As far as equipment, we have 2 meter FM in the cars and at home, as well as a couple of handheld radios. We have a 100 watt HF (shortwave) transceiver that normally runs on AC power. In an emergency, I could use it with the generator or alternator. I also have a 5 watt HF and VHF radio (Yaesu FT-817) that I can run on AC power, or a variety of batteries. Running 5 watts, Morse Code (CW) is a lot more efficient than voice (SSB). So I could continue using this radio more or less indefinitely even without power. I have a few other radios in each category for backups, but that's basically the setup.

One thing I do want to add is a small amount of solar capacity. Solar electricity can be used for a lot of things. But running electronic equipment is one of the few things you simply can't do without electricity. So it is important to have at least a small capacity to generate electricity. The cost of what I would need for using a radio a few hours a day is very small, so I am remiss in not having it yet.

Much of what I've said here is very generalized, so I'm sure I'm open to lots of nitpicking. But that's an overview of the subject. Again, the most important thing you need to know when thinking about communications is thinking about who you want to communicate with, and finding something to fit that need.
 

LoupGarou

Ancient Fuzzball
cryhavoc,

Always think portable, and look for the ones that will take 12V in directly (preferably with a common plug that is positive tip { +-----0)----- - } This way you can power it directly off of a car battery to run/recharge it. Avoid equipment that takes odd voltages and special adapters to run off of 12V. Or even worse "needs" 110V AC (house outlet) that way once you emergency hits and power drops either your toy becomes a doorstop or you run a generator or inverter and become the target of the area (most inverters dump radio interference that can be detected, so I would not bother trying to hide the fact that you have one running).

Macten_1,

I would not bother with trunktracker, unless you wanted to listen to "normal" police comms now. If TSHTF, they can and will switch frequencies, and run encrypted. Your scanner can be reprogrammed for the new frequencies, but 9 chances out of ten, the encryption will stop you cold. What I would look for would be a small portable scanner with as much coverage (frequency wise) as possible, and get one that has a nearfield receiver lockon function like the pocket one at RS. If somebody is nearby it will lock in on them. It still won't decrypt what they are saying, but you will know somebody is close and be able to get ready.

Another thing I forgot to mention earlier:

I would begin to learn morse code and hand signals NOW! You can get a cheap laser pointer,cover the end with "Scotch Magic Tape", and stick a short (4-5 Inch) piece of PVC pipe (painted flat black inside and out) that will fit snug on the working end of the laser pointer. With this, you can send morse code (line of sight) many, many miles. The "Magic Tape" diffuses it enough to that anything that can see down the tube can see the blink and anything to the sides or top of the tube can't. Total cost, under $20 for a pair. You can also remove the tape and use morse code to "illuminate" a target far away to send your signal. Water towers work great for this, they are usually white or silver, and downright huge as a reflector. I have worked mountaintop to mountaintop with this kind of setup.

Also:

You might want to start gathering frequency lists, print them, and start entering them into your scanner/handheld amateur radios. A good place to start is, http://www.monix.net/
http://www.monix.net/FRS-GMRS.txt
note that the military are using FRS as squad radios (ISR) (frequencies have been changed). If they can use .5 Watt, itty bitty handhelds...
(Actually this started BECAUSE they were buying them at the PX and the local WallyWorld and using them. They are cheaper, smaller, run longer on a set of batteries, and most important LIGHTER than the Military versions. I had a friend buy six of the Garmin Rino 120's, he still loves them more then his Military units.



Loup Garou

I transmit and therefore I am...
 
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ofuzzy1

Just Visiting
PREP - PREPS PART 20: Weather Forcasting

I remember being shown on the Commodore 64 a program you could run with a SW radio rig to download sattelite images.

I know that this has to have been improved for more 'modern' PeeCees.

Anyone got a lead on this. Heck run the program on a Palm Pilot with a Baygen Windup powering both.

This would be really important to have for those of us the Huricane Belt.

I'm ~50 miles south of where Frannces and Jeanne came a shore,
YIKES, if I could not figure out when a big blow was coming in.

SW= Short Wave Radio.
 

Crawlingtoy

Veteran Member
LoupGarou said:
cryhavoc,

Always think portable, and look for the ones that will take 12V in directly (preferably with a common plug that is positive tip { +-----0)----- - } This way you can power it directly off of a car battery to run/recharge it. Avoid equipment that takes odd voltages and special adapters to run off of 12V. Or even worse "needs" 110V AC (house outlet) that way once you emergency hits and power drops either your toy becomes a doorstop or you run a generator or inverter and become the target of the area (most inverters dump radio interference that can be detected, so I would not bother trying to hide the fact that you have one running).

This is a great thing to think about. I have Yaesu and Icom radios that are all on quick disconnects so I can take them out of the cars and bring them in the house. Very convienent and that is what is best. I can "listen" with a marine battery in the house for several hours without having to recharge and no "noise."

LoupGarou said:
Macten_1,

I would not bother with trunktracker, unless you wanted to listen to "normal" police comms now. If TSHTF, they can and will switch frequencies, and run encrypted. Your scanner can be reprogrammed for the new frequencies, but 9 chances out of ten, the encryption will stop you cold. What I would look for would be a small portable scanner with as much coverage (frequency wise) as possible, and get one that has a nearfield receiver lockon function like the pocket one at RS. If somebody is nearby it will lock in on them. It still won't decrypt what they are saying, but you will know somebody is close and be able to get ready.

All of the LEO's here use encryption and you cannot scan them at all. Even worse know the nearby nazi police force has some kind of jamming device for scanners in city limits that renders them pretty much useless. Not sure of the legality of that, but......

LoupGarou said:
Another thing I forgot to mention earlier:

I would begin to learn morse code and hand signals NOW! You can get a cheap laser pointer,cover the end with "Scotch Magic Tape", and stick a short (4-5 Inch) piece of PVC pipe (painted flat black inside and out) that will fit snug on the working end of the laser pointer. With this, you can send morse code (line of sight) many, many miles. The "Magic Tape" diffuses it enough to that anything that can see down the tube can see the blink and anything to the sides or top of the tube can't. Total cost, under $20 for a pair. You can also remove the tape and use morse code to "illuminate" a target far away to send your signal. Water towers work great for this, they are usually white or silver, and downright huge as a reflector. I have worked mountaintop to mountaintop with this kind of setup.

Morse code is something that will at least keep the local hoodlums from listening in on your conversations.....that could be important.

Ever hear of warchalking? Simple comms methods are where its at. Think about messengers, a non-gubberment mail service and heck even smoke signals.

LoupGarou said:
Also:

You might want to start gathering frequency lists, print them, and start entering them into your scanner/handheld amateur radios. A good place to start is, http://www.monix.net/
http://www.monix.net/FRS-GMRS.txt
note that the military are using FRS as squad radios (ISR) (frequencies have been changed). If they can use .5 Watt, itty bitty handhelds...
(Actually this started BECAUSE they were buying them at the PX and the local WallyWorld and using them. They are cheaper, smaller, run longer on a set of batteries, and most important LIGHTER than the Military versions. I had a friend buy six of the Garmin Rino 120's, he still loves them more then his Military units.



Loup Garou

I transmit and therefore I am...

Also try Cityfreq
 

LoupGarou

Ancient Fuzzball
One of the other things I have done to make 12V use more standard around my house is to use a standard Molex connector (RS Part # 274-222, $1.99 for male and female). I use the female pins in the "plug" for the power source (battery / solar panel) and the male pins in the "socket" for the device or load. If you make small leads from one of these "device" sockets (with the male pins) to each type of connector for your radios/equipment, then all you have to do is put a few "plugs" (female pinned side) in each car, on a few small gel cells/AGM batteries and on any other 12V power sources. I can even charge/run my radios (or searchlight) off of my riding lawnmower through these connectors. I make sure the triangular side is positive and the flat (square) side is negative and all works fine. I even use the next size up for my 24V items.

Included is a drawing of the plug and socket from the Molex website.

Loup Garou
 

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Crawlingtoy

Veteran Member
Those are exactly what you need. PERFECT!

Another cheap source of radios are used business band radios. They are UHF, high band VHF or low band VHF and can be converted to 70cm, 2m and 6m ham radios for very cheap. I have several now that used to be in fire trucks locally and I picked them up for under $50, including having them reprogrammed.

Really becoming a ham is not that scary of a thing. I think of it this way. It is practice in a field you can not get knowledge in without doing, and the license is really a not that big a deal. Its harder to get a drivers license, really. So your file gets one piece of paper bigger, so what?!?! Are you affraid that they are going to round up all the hams someday?

Also, yes in an extreme case the FCC will eliminate all ham privelidges, but at least then you will know how it works, and maybe use that info for something productive.
 

LoupGarou

Ancient Fuzzball
As far as the Motorola (and other) business band radios go, I do have several boxes of them, and they work fine. But I still like to carry an actual ham radio instead for several reasons:

1. Most all of the amateur radios take in 12V direct (usually a range of 10-16V). This means I do not need to carry around a charger and base for the unit and need a wall outlet.

2. I do not need to have the unit reporgrammed for my frequencies that I want to use. I can easily (and on the go) change them myself. Usually by keypad, and I am not locked into "channels'.

3. Most of them can be modded for other "features". I have run all of mine through the ringer as far as this goes. I like to be able to receive a wider choice of information. And if an emergency happens the FCC even has provisions in place for out of band transmits (If TSHTF, FEMA/DHS has other "provisions", but I talk about that below... (I do not condone the use of out of band transmits, except an emergency situations...) :ld: ;) :ld: (really, I mean it...)

4. They usually are lighter and smaller than their commercial cousins. I lift 300 lbs. of weight every morning, I don't need any more excersize during the day!

5. If you look at the fact that one unit can replace three or four (AM/FM/SW/TV/FRS(receive)/GMRS(receive)/HAM), the higher expense of the amateur equipment drops significantly.


And as far as any confiscation or roundup would go, I don't believe it could ever happen. Too many of us out there and the equipment is too small. Back in the 1930-40's I could see them finding a transmitter setup (just by the heat from the tubes alone) not to mention that they were the size of microwave ovens today (and had power requirements that a handfull of AA batteries wouldn't think of trying). Nowdays, I can hide a few dozen in a room and you would be had pressed to find them (Alinco and others make some that are about the size and thickness of a credit card!). Not to mention, a 2' longX4" round PVC pipe+radio+12V Gel Cell+flexible solar panel (ICP/GlobalSolar)+antenna=hideable transmitter anywhere! I fear that they may try jamming the signals for a little while, but that is only a temporary venture. Jamming a wide band of frequencies takes LOTS of power and makes your jamming source VERY, VERY EASY TO SPOT!!! Plus, unless you have a lot of height on the antenna, 1,000 Watts (or even 10,000 Watts) of jamming power might only effect a 30 mile diameter area. Yes, they could shut down a city area, but the surrounding counties would not be affected much if at all. Unless you are close to the source, you can still talk over it, you just have to deal with the constant jamming signal on receive when nobody near you is transmitting (which turning on CTCSS usually will remove). An added benefit however of them jamming is that it makes it harder for them to triangulate on YOUR position (It's very hard to hear one person whispering in a very noisy area).

Plus I think that they will have their hands full of a whole lot more issues than trying to find a few small transmitting stations. If TSHTF, I can picture most of the cities going like LA did during the riots, and it took them three days to move back in and start to take control of just that. After that I think it took a week or two to actually get the situation under "control" (still ain't there yet IMHO!).

Loup Garou
 
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Crawlingtoy

Veteran Member
I read a story once about a guy in Nazi Germany that was transmitting and the Nazis would DF him every night and then go to his house. Once they got there they bashed the radio that they thought was his and left. The next day his wife would go out and take the clothes off of the "clothesline" and he would take out his cereal box radio and go at it again.

I always figured if I had a bunch of junk radios laying around then I could atleast use some of them as decoys.

Radios/Comms can be very complicated and they can be very simple. Best to learn both sides of it.
 

bearwash

Inactive
Anyone know of a currently manufactured GMRS radio that takes an external antenna? The Cobra PR1000 FRS GMRS is no longer available. They do show up on eBay from time to time.

Unfortunately, my Cobra "6-mile" GMRS radios with the integral antennas get only about a third of a mile reliable reception in a suburban environment. However, they pick up a strong signal from maintenance crew's radios from about two miles away!

I imagine that the new 5 watt GMRS radios (advertised as up to 14 mile range) do pack a pretty strong punch, but they are physically bigger and heavier.
 
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LoupGarou

Ancient Fuzzball
Check ebay for the older "True" GMRS only radios. Since the inception of FRS, most manufacturers have made their antennas non-detachable. I guess that they were afraid that the FCC would freak out if somebody made a radio that could have a detachable antenna AND be able to be used on FRS frequencies. Ebay still has a few older units (maxon, RS, motorola,etc...). Kenwood, Pryme and others are still making a few, (like the Kenwood Freetalk XL, see http://www.bills2way.com/equip/gmrs.html ).

Actually,the one I am looking for is Motorola's T5SOL, FRS/GMRS and built in Solar panel for recharging. IMHO, the perfect FRS/GMRS radio. (See attached picture from http://www.ultimatefrs.com/2004_radios.html ) Supposedly this unit was introduced in 2004 but I still can't find someone that wants to sell me a case or two...

Loup Garou
 

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D in NH

Inactive
Thanks all for sharing your setups.

I'm not active on the air at the moment. HF Rigs are Yaesu 890AT, Icom IC706 Mk 2G, a venerable and well-tweaked Atlas 210X and a pair of Drake TR-4C tube transceivers, just in case... Elecraft K1 and K2 for ultraportable. This is overkill, but my intent is to be able to function as a communications node if things get hairy. Plus I admit it, I like to play with toys.

Decided to modify a steel office cabinet a few years back with metal gasketing so that all rigs except the Drake L4 tube linear amp and MN-2000 tuner are in an EMP-proof enclosure. (Tubes are a good thing to have during an EMP event.) A 27-pin Beau connector plugs into a socket inside the cabinet once the doors are open. This connects AC power, feedlines to the antenna switch and rotor controls. Antenna switching is done outside the house so that only two (HF and UHF) cables come through the wall. Antenna feedlines have traps connected to a serious ground outside the house for EMP.

My antenna mast took a direct lightning strike three years ago, and while the grounding system worked well, the EMP generated off the mast coupled to the 100-base T network that connects my computers. Damaged a laptop, toasted a desktop system and blew every Ethernet card in the building. So now I put two or three 1 inch diameter loops near the ends of all my Ethernet cables, hold the loops in place with tiewraps, and then plug them in. A little inductance can go a long way to reducing the effects of a high frequency pulse. I've heard that just putting a couple of knots into power cords can protect the powered item in similar ways. Just passing that along...

If natural or military EMP happens with the ham cabinet doors closed, as they usually are, net effect should be zero since there are no penetrations through the cabinet walls. If the cabinet is open and the solid state stuff gets toasted, then that's what tube transceivers are for, and we may all have bigger problems at the moment than whether our rigs are working... In the meantime, putting your rigs in ammo cans, steel trashcans with tight fitting lids etc. should do the job. I just wanted something easier to use, so I went with an office cabinet.

I have a screwdriver antenna for the diesel SUV if needed. Hexbeam HF antenna for the roof of the house. It has a very low visual profile, needs only a small rotor, and gets out. Big three element beam antennas attract attention.

Also, a Uniden Grant LT CB transceiver to talk to trucks, a couple of Alinco 2-meter HT's, and 4 FRS radios. 5 Watt Radio Shack CB in each vehicle in the bugout pack in the trunk, along with a mini Grundig AM/SW/Weather receiver.

I should upgrade to GMRS, since they have significant power and are getting cheap. I'd appreciate guidance on a good one to get. Anything decent at Costco? I don't see myself buying external antennas for GMRS radios anyway. They are a short-range solution, grab and go.

Thanks again for all the good advice shared here. My EMP thoughts came along after the somewhat paranoid calculation that - Heaven forfend - if some maniac set off a low-yield nuke 25,000 feet over Manhattan, it would take out a significant percentage of the electronics from Washington DC to Maine. There would be a lot of demand in the local community for news and comm ability, so why not plan for that? Hams are traditionally service-oriented.

Slightly off-topic, but thinking on EMP in this worst-case TSHTF scenario, does your car have solid state electronic ignition? Might be fine, then again... Consider pre-1986 vehicles with no computers.
 
C

ComingInTheClouds

Guest
Need Tutor

Okay, Wow.

Can we pretend that I don't know what a FRS or GMRS is? I'm assuming the ham isn't something you eat.

Maybe someone could tell me, on an extremely simple level, the different options for communication and the strengths/shortcomings of each.

Kindergarten for radios. That's what I need. :confused:
 

cory

Inactive
You look at Anderson Powerpoles?

LoupGarou said:
One of the other things I have done to make 12V use more standard around my house is to use a standard Molex connector

I got a pack of these off eBay but haven't rigged them up yet. The Ham Radio emergency prep guys are standardizing on them for everything. There are a couple vendors making patch panels based on these.

If you go with Anderson Powerpoles, you can patch power from others.
 

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Crawlingtoy

Veteran Member
OK, overly simplified explanation:

FRS=Family Radio Service. No license required, range of about 100 feet :rolleyes: Good for using to track your kids in an amusement park.
GMRS=General Mobile Radio Service. BS license required, but nobody does it, range of about 1-2 miles if the sun, the moon and venus are all lined up. Great for work around the farm or while camping. Also works well for short range car to car.
CB=Citizens Band. No license required, range of up to 10 miles. Easy and cheap for car to car and close range house to house. Think very local.
SW=Short Wave. Very generalized term for high frequency (HF) bands. Used to describe listening devices (recievers), so you can here what is going on around the world.
HAM=Amatuer Radio. This is a very broad spectrum of radio that covers everything from VERY local to worldwide communications. This is where you want to be to set up your family/group with all communications needs.
 

RC

Inactive
D in NH said:
I should upgrade to GMRS, since they have significant power and are getting cheap. I'd appreciate guidance on a good one to get. Anything decent at Costco? I don't see myself buying external antennas for GMRS radios anyway. They are a short-range solution, grab and go.

.

I'm not really an expert on what's available for GMRS, but I have noticed that a lot of GMRS radios are really not much better than FRS radios. At Wal-Mart one day, I bought a couple of closeout FRS/GMRS radios for $5 each. As far as I can tell, the only difference between these and similar cheap FRS radios is that they have the additional GMRS channels. They had no specs with them, but I strongly suspect the power output on the GMRS channels is the same as on the FRS channels. And the integral antenna seems much less than optimal.

They were certainly worth the $5 I spent for them, but the lesson here is that just because something is sold as a GMRS radio doesn't mean that it's going to have much more range than an FRS radio.

IMHO (again, without being an expert), the difference in power levels between FRS is only a few dB, and won't make a lot of difference in range. The biggest advantage I can see is the ability to use an external antenna.

Incidentally, here's an idea I've had, although in my case, it's a solution for a problem I don't happen to have. (I have to admit I stole the idea from Radio Shack, as their old mobile FRS radio was a very good idea.) It's illegal to add an external antenna to an FRS radio, and the feedline losses would be appreciable if you are running it any distance. But there's no law against installing an external microphone and power supply.

So if you need something with a bit more range than an FRS radio, just put the radio on top of a tower in a non-metallic waterproof enclosure, and run down lines for power and microphone. If they have a microphone with volume and channel buttons, all the better. Otherwise, at least you have a radio with good range on channel 1 (or another channel, if the radio will keep the channel setting without power).

It's not ideal, but in some situations, it would serve the need, and for very little money.
 

RC

Inactive
D in NH said:
Slightly off-topic, but thinking on EMP in this worst-case TSHTF scenario, does your car have solid state electronic ignition? Might be fine, then again... Consider pre-1986 vehicles with no computers.

The subject of EMP always gets a lot of emotional reaction, so I hope I'm not fanning those flames here too much. (For those who are unaware, EMP stands for Electromagnetic Pulse, which is essentiall a very strong radio signal caused by a nuclear blast on the edge of space.)

I'm not an expert, but IMHO, such a blast would have major effects on interconnected systems such as the power grid, telephone systems, etc. Becuase those things generally have long wires connecting them, there would be large induced voltages that would damage electronic devices connected to them. Think of it as connecting the output of a powerful radio transmitter directly to some other device.

Also, devices that are plugged in to such systems at the time (into a household electrical outlet or telephone jack, or to an antenna), also stand a risk of being damaged.

But IMHO, very few devices that are not connected will be damaged. It is certainly possible, but I don't think that very many things like radios that are not in use, heart pacemakers, or electronic ignitions will be damaged. It will certainly happen to some, but I don't think it will be widespread. This is because without fairly long conductors attached to them, the induced voltages will not be high enough. In particular, I don't think many automotive ignitions will be damaged. There is certainly the potential, because they do rely on solid-state electronics, which are particularly vulnerable. But I don't think the vehicle wiring would serve well enough as an antenna to do much damage. Also, the ignition electronics and the rest of the vehicle wiring are fairly well shielded.

It will happen in some cases, but I just don't see damage to electronic ignitions as being a particular problem. Also, IMHO, an EMP attack is most likely to be part of a generalized nuclear war. Even if it's not, an EMP attack would have enough effect on the infrastructure that gasoline would probably be unavailable.

I don't think I'm playing down the effects of EMP, and I'm certainly not saying that it's something we shouldn't prepare for. But worrying about electronic ignition is farily low on my list of priorities.

In my case (and I think in most people's cases), the best strategy for EMP protection is simply to have spares of electronic devices you wouldn't want to live without. In most cases, simply having them stored away disconnected would be adequate protection. If you are really concerned, storing them in metal containers would provide almost absolute protection (taking care, as D in NH pointed out, to electrically bond the container's lid to the rest of the container).

To test such a container, you can simply turn up a radio, put it in the box, and see if you can still hear a station. Since EMP covers a large range of frequencies, it would be a good idea to test it on a few different frequencies. For example, try it with an FM radio, and then with a portable TV tuned to a UHF station. If you lose the signal after closing the container, then it's pretty safe to say that it provides 100% protection from EMP.
 

D in NH

Inactive
Thanks for the clarification, RC.

EMP poses the greatest threat to equipment connected to longer wires: Radios with long antennas, solid state phones, computers etc. Cars with computers may be fine, or not. Even at significant distances from the source, electric fields in the range of thousands of volts per meter can occur, and, while not harmful to people, if (big IF) that field can couple to a wire hooked to a sensitive component, damage will result. Scaling the example, if a walkie-talkie antenna is four inches long, it might couple a fast pulse measuring a few hundred volts into our GMRS, FRS, or CB. If the antenna is twice as long, plan for twice the voltage. If the transmit/receive switch in the radio can handle that, no problem. If the radio is in a shielded container, then all is well, because it won't see any significant voltage. Your idea of having spares is great. I am assuming that one or more of my rigs would be damaged while unprotected (in use.) Personally, I would not break out all the spares right away, in case there was a second event in the offing.

Regarding the gas stations that would be offline, I think most TB2Kers would especially like their cars to work if the worst happens, and many keep spare fuel as I do. If we can drive and communicate, we can be of service to a lot of less fortunate people.

TB2K reminds me of the grim scenarios, and that is emotional stuff, which is why I mentioned my experience. Lightning EMP is tamer than the military kind, but it still did damage, and I had planned for a direct strike, which many people do not. I still got bit. BTW, I was standing in my living room, six feet from the mast which runs down the side of my house. Since I was "under" the lightning strike, I didn't hear any thunder, just the loud, quick snap of the pulse creating arcs in the wiring in my house.

There are EMP discussions in the archives for people who are interested.
 
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LoupGarou

Ancient Fuzzball
I use the Anderson Powerpoles on all of my medium amperage connections (10-30 AMP). If the draw is above 30 Amp, Amphenol makes a connector that tow truck drivers and electric fork lifts use, I use the light duty one for up to 60 Amps (both 12V and 24V, different color connector) as well as the biggest one that takes me up to 400 Amp for my main battery disconnects. I use the Molex for small everyday connections because it's easier to find (local RS) and does not want to come apart (Anderson's positive and negative sides of the connector will slide apart if the "locking pin" falls out {which can be funny if it does it in your coat pocket and the other end of the cable is connected to a 7AH 12V AGM battery that you are hiking with!}). Plus, at $1.99 for a pair, they are a bit cheaper. I have made jumpers that have both on each end so if somebody wants to tap off of my batteries and all they have is Anderson/AMPHNOL/MOLEX/Cig. Lighter, they can.

The other thing I would suggest to do is make one cable with your choice of power connector (Molex/AMP/Anderson...) on one end, and a set of aligator clips on the other. This way, if TSHTF you can power/charge off of ANY 12V battery you may find. And if TSHTF really bad, it won't take too long before there are a lot of stranded cars and nobody to use them (no gas). But wait, all is not lost! Along most major roads there are plenty of solar powered aluminum traffic boxes. These nice devices were DESIGNED to charge batteries. :rolleyes: (and we won't talk about how portable the top part looks...) :D I have seen several on the outskirts of town (east end, especially) that have eight or more LARGE panels (at least 60-80 Watts each panel). I won't tell you how much I keep reminding myself "Thou Shalt Not....." every time I pass them! (And they always seem to put them really close to large patches of woods too!) :D (I promise to keep my ratchet set in the back of the car away from me if I happen to stop with car trouble near one...)

Actually, the price for the smaller, amphorous (lower wattage) panels has dropped. Northern Tool has the 15W (12V 1.X Amp) panels for under $100 each now. Throw two up on the roof and run the leads to a deep cycle and you are in business.


Loup Garou
 

mcchrystal

Inactive
Crawlingtoy said:
Really becoming a ham is not that scary of a thing. I think of it this way. It is practice in a field you can not get knowledge in without doing, and the license is really a not that big a deal. Its harder to get a drivers license, really. So your file gets one piece of paper bigger, so what?!?!

They ( see www.qrz.com and click on "Practice Tests" ) even give you the
answers. If you aren't suffering from Alzheimer's, one week at the website
I've mentioned, plus (usually) a $10.00 test fee, and you've got your license.

Way easier than getting a driver's license, and worth it.
 

mcchrystal

Inactive
bearwash said:
Anyone know of a currently manufactured GMRS radio that takes an external antenna?

Per FCC regulation, there are none (For FRS Radios, that is). The FCC did not want "everyman" getting a 100 - Watt amp and external antennas. For GMRS,
though, there are a number available. Icom and Vertex make models, and
I bleeve Motorola does, too.
 

cory

Inactive
LoupGarou said:
I use the Anderson Powerpoles on all of my medium amperage connections (10-30 AMP)....

Good tips Loup,

I have a sack of the powerpoles but haven't set up anything yet.

I have some gel cells, a couple fairly healthy 12 volt supplies, and a solar panel I got for Y2K but never put up. I should charge everything up, connect it all, but haven't yet.

I also have cells for my ICOM radios that I need to put in the packs.

I need to pick one project a week and finish it. OK, this week's project is the emergency QRP CW rig.

de ah6gi/4
 

D in NH

Inactive
The Anderson connectors are great. Grey ones are used to connect the batteries in quite a few uninterruptible power supplies (UPS) for computers, and are rated to 50 amps. You may have an electronics salvage place in your area that recycles them and sells cheap. I bought a pile at a hamfest a few years ago, already connected to heavy black and red wire leads for $2. Should have gotten more. (Of course.)

Even if you don't have a ham rig yet, check your local paper or online for hamfests in your area. They are great places to pick up components, cable etc. at great prices. Plus people are usually very willing to share their expertise.
 
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