[ECON] Rumor - JP Morgan about to be busted?

[jgebo]

post from freepers (Free Republic) Strictly a FOAF post but because of all the JP Morgan stuff floating around, just had to post it:

"I just got of the phone with my man at DLJ. He thinks Morgan is about to be busted on derivatives...rumours are out that investigators have breached the walls. This may already be on the wires."

[Traveler]

Very interesting,
Would you please post the link.
I can't seem to locate the article
Thank You

[jgebo]

another - this from a YAhoo board on AMAZON.com of all things

"14:30 ET JPM JP Morgan Chase hit on derivatives, Fed rumors (20.48 -4.04)

Stock is getting mauled today on a report in the Journal that JPM was involved in numerous Enron-like deals (7:01); however, we are also hearing rumors among traders that if JPM's stock falls or closes below a certain price (we're hearing $20 or $22), the co may be forced to unwind a number of derivative positions; in addition, we're hearing rumors that the Fed may hold an emergency meeting tonight to discuss such banking issues; of course, a degree of skepticism is warranted here (especially with the latter rumor), but chatter such as this is undeniably weighing on JPM and the bank group in general.
"

[jgebo]

JP Morgans perfromance today
Symbol Last Trade Change Volume
JPM 4:01pm 20.08 -4.44 -18.11% 44,865,700

read the message bpard at Yahoo for JPM
http://messages.yahoo.com/?action=q&board=JPM

some scary sheet - something is up

[jgebo]

froma a Yahoo message board post on JPM:

"GATA claims the gold manipulation began in earnest in 1995, when Robert Rubin was Treasury Secretary under the Presidency Of William Jefferson Clinton. Rubin has been with Citigroup for awhile now, and now it comes to light that Citigroup was loaning money to Enron and Enron-types in a prepay commodity arrangement, in which gold is a named commodity of this scheme. Rubin frantically calls Bush for help as Enron is collapsing. RUBIN knows the truth.

Today, Citigroup and the other gold manipulator JPMorgan see their stocks collapse as news spreads of their overt involvement in the Enron saga. Gold, which has been strong in the stock market collapse, suddenly sells off dramatically. Rumors circulate that JPM's derivative books are in deep doo doo. Further rumors of an emergency Federal Reserve meeting.
"

[Kris Gandillon]

I and others have mentioned that there are "other shoes that are going to drop"...

IMHO, this is one of them and like I explained on another thread regarding "which shoes" - just look at Arthur Anderson's major client list for a hint, you can extend the "other shoes" possibility to JP Morgan Chase and their major client list as well.

"Practices" and "deals" that appeared to work for one client were very often extended and adapted to many other clients as well.

As the dots continue to connect it will all become much clearer...

Yep...it could be raining shoes before long...

Kris

[expose']

Hmmmmm.....

JP Morgan has always been considered one of the NWO powerhouses... If they go down.....?? Does this mean there is a calvary out there?

[jgebo]

My $ is on TPTB to keep the gig up and pull out all stops to bail out the JP Morgan crowd.

[jgebo]

more....

"
Back in 2000, JPM reported $30 billion in gold derivatives and Chase reported separately in the same year that it had $35 billion in gold derivatives. Analyst agree that the derivatives have exploded at this bank and that both positions are enormous relative to the capital of the bank and the size of the gold market. It gets worse. JPM's total derivatives position reportedly now stands at nearly $29 trillion, or three times the U.S. annual gross domestic product. Wall Street insiders speculate that if the gold market were to rise, Morgan/Chase could be in serious financial difficulty because of its "short positions" in gold. Being highly leveraged in gold, they are going to have trouble covering their liabilities. This is going to be ruinous if and when they have to repay the gold. There is big trouble ahead. "

[jgebo]

from Yahoo baord discussion on JP Morgan and gold manipulation

http://messages.yahoo.com/?action=q&board=JPM

"If the Saudis, Iran, Hussein, or anybody with really deep pockets wanted to bring the US financial system to its knees, C and JPM, with their gold derivative exposures, have handed them the sword. "

[jgebo]

"In financial circles 10 to 1 leverage is considered very aggressive, 100 to 1 is considered to be in the kamikaze realm, but we don’t ever recall hearing about large-scale leveraged operations exceeding 100 to 1 outside of the horrible example of the doomed super hedge fund Long Term Capital Management. JPM’s management may have effectively created the most leveraged large hedge fund in the history of the world by using $42b worth of shareholders’ equity to control derivatives representing a notional value of a staggering $26,276b. After we shook off the blunt shock of learning of an implied leverage of 626 to 1 by the United States’ premier Wall Street bank and elite Dow 30 blue-chip company, we continued to dig deeper into the revealing OCC Bank Derivatives Report."

http://www.zealllc.com/commentary/monster.htm

[Traveler]

If JPM shorted the Gold Market today and pressed it down a historical $10 in one day, would the price of their stock go back up to the $30 range if the price of gold went back up?

[alchemike]

expose' wrote...

Hmmmmm.....JP Morgan has always been considered one of the NWO powerhouses... If they go down.....?? Does this mean there is a calvary out there?

i have posted on a number of other threads that i believe someone(s) is trying to take down the fed...

citigroup, jpm, gs, world bank, imf...all octopi arms of the federal reserve...

the fed is the cash cow of the new world order and lucky for us, also their achilles heel...

goodbye fed...goodbye nwo...

and the secret weapon???

simple...gold...

o)<

mike

[Traveler]

If it will help bring bring down the monster, I'll take a bite of an octopi leg! Where do I buy a little gold?

[Onebyone]

Yep...it could be raining shoes before long...

{snicker}, no,

[Onebyone]

Does this mean there is a calvary out there?

I sure do hope that is what it means

Right now I have no money to buy gold so I will pray for all you who do to be able to send gold through the roof!!

[HeliumAvid]

BUMP BUMP BUMP....


I wonder if this thread has any meaning to this debauche....

War] Bin Lauden's Next Terror Strike: The Price of Gold?

http://66.191.143.250/vb/showthread....highlight=gold

[night driver]

I should certainly HOPE that there is a calvary out there (after all it WAS promised).

ANd i ALSO hope that there is a cavalry out there too.....




chuck

[Storm]

Storm said......... if world .com goes bankrupt tally one big Victory point for The side of Good............ If they say they were sorry blah blah and intend to restructure european style than one point for darkness. This isn't over but you are definetly barking up some important trees.
Storm

[Gayla]

Probe: Banks Aided Enron Accounting
Tue Jul 23, 4:17 PM ET
By MARCY GORDON, AP Business Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - Major investment banks gave Enron Corp. multimillion-dollar loans that helped the now-bankrupt company disguise its true financial condition and, in some cases, they knew that Enron was using deceptive accounting for the loans, a Senate investigator testified Tuesday.

The bipartisan investigative subcommittee of the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee reviewed a million pages of documents, most of them subpoenaed, and interviewed dozens of witnesses from Enron and its Wall Street investment banks. It found some banks actively aided Enron in its dodgy accounting in return for big fees and favors in other deals, investigator Robert Roach told a hearing before the panel.

"The evidence indicates that Enron would not have been able to engage in the extent of the accounting deceptions it did, involving billions of dollars, were it not for the active participation of major financial institutions willing to go along with and even expand upon Enron's activities," Roach said at the hearing.

There also is evidence that some of the banks allowed investors to rely on Enron financial statements they knew were misleading, Roach said.

The banks used complex financial transactions to boost Enron's anemic cash flow to match its profit growth on paper, according to lawmakers. The energy-trading company recorded the money from the bank loans — said to total $8 billion — as prepaid trades of natural gas and other commodities with an entity based in the Channel Islands off Britain.

He said that Citigroup Inc., the nation's largest financial institution, and J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., also pitched the deals to other companies.

Citigroup "shopped" the Enron-style deals to 14 companies, successfully selling it to at least three, Roach testified.

Houston-based Enron, which filed for bankruptcy in December, taking the investments of millions of people with it, used a web of thousands of off-balance-sheet partnerships to hide some $1 billion in debt from investors and federal regulators.

If not for the deals with the banks, Enron's debt would have been $14 billion in 2000 rather than the $10 billion the company reported, and its cash flow would have been half of the $3.2 billion it reported, according to subcommittee investigators. If the true picture had been known, it would have put downward pressure on Enron's stock price and credit ratings from agencies such as Moody's Investors Service and Standard & Poor's.

Officials of those agencies, testifying at Tuesday's hearing, said they were unaware of the transactions with the banks and that Enron misled them and withheld information.

"Why didn't the watchdogs bark?" Sen. Joseph Lieberman ( news, bio, voting record), D-Conn., asked of the credit-rating officials.

In a 1998 e-mail, a J.P. Morgan Chase executive in Houston wrote that "Enron loves these deals."

Enron officials "are able to hide ... debt" from Wall Street analysts, he wrote.

Jeffrey Dellapina, a managing director of J.P. Morgan Chase at its New York headquarters, testified at Tuesday's hearing that the e-mail was "inaccurate."

Officials of the two financial companies denied any wrongdoing, saying lenders shouldn't be held responsible for how borrowers such as Enron recorded their loans.

Bank officials stressed at the hearing that Enron's former auditor Arthur Andersen had reviewed the company's accounting for the transactions and approved it.

Before senators heard the testimony, they decried the wave of accounting scandals rocking investors' confidence and the markets. Telecom giant WorldCom Inc. filed the biggest bankruptcy in U.S. history on Sunday, less than a month after it disclosed that it hid nearly $4 billion in expenses through deceptive accounting.

"It's clear that Enron was not alone in shady financial dealings," said Sen. Jim Bunning, R-Ky. "Americans across this country are watching their savings and their pensions dwindle."

Citigroup has called the transactions with Enron "entirely appropriate at the time based on what we knew and what we were told by Enron."

Enron's Washington attorney, Robert Bennett, has said the company would continue to cooperate with investigations by Congress, the Justice Department and the Securities and Exchange Commission, and that people should not "rush to judgment."

In April, Enron shareholders who had sued the company for allegedly defrauding them added nine investment banks, including Citigroup and J.P. Morgan Chase, that financed the deals to their lawsuit in federal court in Houston. The shareholders said the banks' knowledge of Enron's questionable partnerships and other transactions gave them an inside view of the company's financial condition as they sold Enron securities to investors.

The other banks named in the lawsuit were Credit Suisse First Boston USA Inc., Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce, Bank of America Corp., Merrill Lynch & Co., Lehman Brothers Holding Inc., Britain's Barclays Bank PLC and Germany's Deutsche Bank AG.

[expose']

Chuck!!

I just KNEW I spelled that word wrong!!

Well...you know what I meant!

[West]

"Today, Citigroup and the other gold manipulator JPMorgan see their stocks collapse as news spreads of their overt involvement in the Enron saga. Gold, which has been strong in the stock market collapse, suddenly sells off dramatically. Rumors circulate that JPM's derivative books are in deep doo doo. Further rumors of an emergency Federal Reserve meeting."


Shur would like to be the fly on that wall.
Also,
Wish I could understand exactly why did gold stocks sell off today? Or perhaps I'm missing the whole point. I would think the unhedge miners stock would of went up. I'm beginning to think the whole dang system is starting to puke.

[strudel nut]

Has anyone heard about any emergency meeting regarding the Federal Reserve tonight? Freepers was reporting that they saw it on CNBC. If it is true, wonder if the banking system is teetering?

[Storm]

Really? Man that would be seriously good news...... Let me know. Perhaps they will let the Restoration begin

[fredkc]

Does this mean there is a cavalry out there?

Uh... I don't think I wanna hear about the cavalry, guys.


Ya see, in the end they weren't playing with their money. If they really have thoroughly stepped on they're whatchacallit, they WILL call in the cavalry. They are a "Proud Member of..." (Drum roll, please..) F.D.I.C.


WE IS THE CAVALRY!!

[Cascadians]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/721171/posts
<b>Larry Kudlow of CNBC Reporting of Emergency Federal Reserve Meeting Tonight</b>

CNBC television | 7/23/2002 | Larry Kudlow
Posted on 07/23/2002 6:11 PM Pacific by rumrunner

Larry Kudlow mentioned that the Federal Reserve may be meeting tonight to discuss the exposure of Citibank and JP Morgan Chase to derivatives and the stock market collapse.

Possible that both banks have billions of derivatives that need to be unwound. Would collapse the banking industry.

-----------------------

Very interesting thread there on FReepers ...

[stillprepping]

if jpm gets into big trouble over this - and we should probably be saying *when* it gets into trouble over this - the banking system will go down. period. end of story. i dont believe even ppt can do anything.

this is getting soooo interesting.

[Curious]

Couldn't find my computer bookmark index to the FOI part of the FED site where they disclose every meeting, including "emergency meetings" but the main schedule site does NOT indicate any meeting tonight. The FOI part is actually more accurate.....I will poke around and see if I can find it. Every emergency meeting the Fed has had the last few year popped up there beforehand...even if it was quickly scheduled on just a couple of hours notice. The regular location at their web site which lists their upcoming meeting, even the emergency ones, though is only updated about once a day.

Curious

[jeannie]

It's the Iron Triangle:

Power
Telecom
Banking

Knock one of the legs out of the triangle, and "we all fall down".

Blessings,
Jeannie

[Storm]

Default on anything owed to the world bank IMF Fed Res. Close the Reserve, Create congress controlled Treasury based 100% on substance Gold ,silver etc. Debt forgivness for all Business,Personal including credit cards and house loans, Abolish the IRS and inact a 5 % sales tax on only NEW sale item's. For immunity all guilty parties will have all their actions made public and I mean everyone...... so that the history books will include them for as long as God would have us Exist as a country.


That'd be about the surrender conditions what do you guys think?

storm

[night driver]

CR@P!!!!!


This is beginning to give me a HUGE deja vu feeling!!

Do you remember the timeline on LTCM???


3 days TOPS and we are toast. THey MAY be able to handle it if they get to the weekend without a blowout.... and get their ducks in a row but I don't think there are any folks BIG enough to even eat 50% (total) of their problems, unlike LTCM who were pretty small potatoes on the current scale...

[Squid]

At the risk of tides of thread drift....

TPTB have power's (money) that is unheard of even in investment banking circles.

Maybe we saw a sleight of hand today. All eyes are on the stock market, just so happens the media is helping to push all eyes on the stock market and Dow.

Todays action was not in equity's but two other "benchmarks." We saw the dollar stabalize and gain ground before the US markets openned. EVERYONE else wants the dollar lower, and let us say for the sake of paranoid conspiracy theories there is a quid pro quo. The fed and PPT get on the phone and say we need a co-ordinated effort on two fronts, we will allow, help orchestrate a push on the dollar higher against both yen and euro but in return we also aasskkkk (ever so politely) that we also attack the price of gold.

Bam the Asian's (including China) not only stabilize but push the dollar higher and gold get hits to boot.

Who wins, we really don't have a clue how dependent foriegn export driven economies in Asia NEED like O-2 a strong dollar to allow the remaining solvent Americans to continue to buy their widgets and shoes and to keep a stabiilizing amount of populace employed. If major US banks were about to get hit with stories and possible (you know its coming) class action litigation from Enron damaged employees, investor's, customers, bankers to the major banks that may have helped Enron, the last thing they need is to be hit with derivatives explosion from a rising price of gold.

To big to fail comes to mind.

Of course the gold price may have been profit taking and big players moving the price down to scoop up more at lower prices, but the move looked very big and very fast which always sends my PPT radar in high ping mode.

There is more going on and by all means when the media tell you to look left check your starboard.

[strudel nut]

Glad I could pass along some news like this. I am getting an education on all of this real quick. I just wish I had done better with it in college

[Nikoli Krushev]

somebody needs to call Claire, it's almost time for the hangings to begin.

[Traveler]

Quite a buzz tonight on the JPM threads. About 200 post per hour estimated. Hard to keep up. It was said that the overseas markets are now reporting it. How are they doing over there?
Up or Down?

Now on C=SPAN

[TECH32]

<b>...rumours are out that investigators have breached the walls.</b>

Reminds me of the opening of Monty Pythons "The Meaning Of Life"

-TECH32-

['plain o joe']

Now for a really scarey thought:

Could "dove" be right, or right on track?

But my worst fear is that if a colapse like Argentina, would TPTB's only solution to "bring back up" the monetary system would be to have everyone "chipped"

[hawkeye]

JPM is the second-most active thread on Lycos Raging Bull. That takes some doing.

I don't know if it would be apprpriate to post a link, but if someone asks I will.

[alchemike]

o)<

mike

[gisgaia]

This copied below re connection of 911 & JP Morgan was posted on a Thread discussing the "Dove" & NESARA debate over on Rumor Mill in the Reading Room. Wow, kinda mindblowing that I read this last night and then tonight's Nat'l News had huge headlines about J P MORGAN is in big broohaha w/ Enron Scam....

(So is this why the Chapter in the Bible concerning the End of this Time Cycle is titled "Revelation" ??? Certainly seems that many things are suddenly starting to unravel and much is being revealed to the masses with ears to hear & eyes to see.)

Blessings and Prayers for TRUTH & JUSTICE FOR ALL!!!

Fair Use Cited for Educational Discussion Purposes Only:
========================

Aliens comment on Nine one one
Posted By: HeraldAp - Sunday, 21 July 2002
In Response To: TELL US (oliverhaddo)
http://www.rumormillnews.net/cgi-bin....pl?read=21224

Bravo Oliver! Just who is to say whether or not Dove and her party are behind a drive to supplant "our" Federal Reserve with a more European based, Euro-driven economy? Now, that kind of maneuvering can truly take time!

This strange thought would have never slipped into my mind had I not read what some "little green men" said about the attack on the World Trade Center. Perhaps Dove et. al. is waiting in the wings until all the aftershocks of the 911 financial-destruct time capsule trickle down like so many "tiny" aftershocks following a big earth quake. Here is what the Zeta Reticulan aliens (aka Nancy) say about the largely FINANCIAL attacks on 911 waged against the US Banking Axis by the European Banking Powers!

ZetaTalk: Attack on America
http://www.zetatalk.com/govmt/g127.htm

Yes and no, this is what it seems on the surface - an attack by Bin Laden on the corrupt capitalist country that has led so many attacks on Muslim countries. But this attack would not have occurred unless infighting among the financial giants of the world, the major banks, had not occurred. Infighting was the instigator, and the primary culprit, but this culprit will not be the scapegoat. In the infamous attack on America on September 11, 2001, several unlikely bedfellows crawled into bed with each other, each for their own ends. Thus, where on the surface it seems a repeat of the Bin Laden attack on the World Trade Center in New York City, failed in the past and tried before the world in the courts, this was only using as the bullet a Muslim group that would be immediately suspect and placate most inquiring minds. The gun was held, however, by a rival bank of JP Morgan, who was devastated in the attack.

The Stock Markets and worth of so much paper the banks and wealthy rely upon for their status and control are being artificially maintained at this time, the longer to keep these elite on their high perch. We mentioned in November, 1999 that cooperation between the world's banking giants and governments was in place, toward this end. One means of this artificial support is to put forth losers, so that the general public might win and thus maintain their confidence to continue to play the game that the Stock Markets represent. Key players are to enter the field and take a loss, aborting panic, as this is considered a lesser problem than a full scale panic.

Where this plan met with general approval, now that tight times and a worldwide recession has become a reality, there is argument among the players. You go first, no you go first, and these arguments have gotten heated. Many felt the time would never come, so agreement was only in principal, not from the heart. Thus those in the financial field with greater clout, threatened to force lesser participants to be the loser, and dark thoughts crossed many minds.

During the day of the attack, there were three things that stood out from the horror and stunned confusion that goes with any unexpected catastrophe.

1. The first was the absence of the President from a role of confrontation and comfort. He was hiding, on the run, not seen as in command, and took hours to even muster a presence other than a statement or two repeating the obvious. It was clear to all that the Vice President, remaining in the White House, was running things. The lack of leadership was so apparent that this was mentioned repeatedly by the newscasters.

2. The second was the repeated mention that such a well planned and executed attack had to have more than the usual terrorist support, had to be supported by or in countries unnamed. Muslim pilots were trained in major aircraft operations, undoubtedly in training simulation settings. Were they referring to Afghanistan, primitive and suffering from drought so severe the people are starving? They were referring to a sophisticated country, with the infrastructure capable of training Muslim pilots on the flight deck of these major commercial aircraft.

3. The third was that the CIA had been clueless, a trend of late but so complete a blackout had occurred that it seemed beyond belief. Had this occurred in prior terrorist attacks? The terrorists were familiar enough with US airport security and the routines and roles of the staff to be able to successfully commandeer four planes, delivering the payload of three of them into the New York skyline and the Pentagon itself. No only was the CIA in the dark, it seems the intel went in the other direction!

The heads of the US government were too frightened, the attack too well planned and executed, for this to be just a terrorist attack. And JP Morgan affiliates resided on several floors of the World Trade Center and were a casualty of the sudden devastation - executives, records, and confidence of the market and public in dealing with them going out in a flash. The target was the banking systems holding the US and their elite and wealthy above those in Europe, in the arrogant manner Bush and his masters have employed of late.

To understand the main target, and the support relationships causing a relative collapse among the wealthy and holdings of the US elite versus others, one needs to know the complex and mostly secret relationships between bonding banks, new issue of stock, loans between banks and governments, agreements with the Fed, and who holds what holdings privately or publicly! JP Morgan was the target, as a bank. The stock they were supporting, via their subsidiaries or associates, will suffer.

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