HEALTH CDC should be issuing a "Stock up,prepare for FLOOD of H1N1 cases in next 2 weeks

[ainitfunny]

CDC should be warning health care providers to get in SURGE LEVEL STOCKS of masks, gel, gloves, tamiflu, ventilators, beds ready, whatever and warn staff to prepare to staff up for a coming post-holiday SURGE in cases of H1N1 patients exposed because of their prolonged exposure in extreme close contact with family and others in their long car travel, plane, bus, and other travel to their holiday destination, as well as during the holiday visit itself.

People who might NOT have transmitted flu to other family members in a normal home situation, almost certainly HEAVILY expose other family members when confined together closely in an auto for an hour or two drive to relatives house for Thanksgiving. It IS after all, AIRBORNE. The viral load of exposure seems key to degree and likelihood of illness.

I find it strange that nothing seems to be coming out of CDC right now.

Those exposed on travel the trip TO their destination should be coming sick now, those exposed during the holiday should be getting sick tomorrow or Sunday and those exposed going home will be becoming ill early next week.

[fredkc]

1. So far, H1N1 has turned out to be the "Great Big Bad Ugly Death-Dealing Flu" that wasn't.

2. The regular plain ol' e'ryday flu strain has been a nastier bug to catch than H1N1 anyway.

I'ma thinkin' more people probably choked on deviled eggs, than caught the flu over the holiday, so most likely the CDC is taking this opportunity to say absolutely nothing, in hopes they'll get back a smidgen of credibility.

Obviously your mileage may vary. just my $0.02 worth.

Fred

[dragonslayer2001]

1. So far, H1N1 has turned out to be the "Great Big Bad Ugly Death-Dealing Flu" that wasn't.



Obviously you haven't been reading the horror storys of members here who have caught it, or their friends who have died.

[spinnaker]

"I'ma thinkin' more people probably choked on deviled eggs, than caught the flu over the holiday, so most likely the CDC is taking this opportunity to say absolutely nothing, in hopes they'll get back a smidgen of credibility."

[bbkaren]

[sigh] Seasonal flu kills the very old, the very young, and the sick/weak.

H1N1 kills the young and strong.

Oh, and seasonal flu does NOT kill 36,000 Americans every year. Seasonal flu kills around 1,500 (very old, very young, and sick/weak) Americans each year.

American Lung Association data here. Please see page 14 (printed on the doc) for data on the ages that are killed by seasonal flu, and data on how many people die of seasonal flu each year:
http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0...ZmJhODQ4&hl=en

Please help stop the spread of silly, dangerous misinformation.

[dissimulo]

Tough call - a definite hit to the economy vs. possible increase in flu cases that probably can't be avoided in the long run anyway.

[Tom McDowell]

Two die in France after mutated H1N1 flu infection
Posted: 28 November 2009 0012 hrs

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...021001/1/.html


PARIS - Two patients who were infected by a H1N1 flu mutation that was also recently detected in Norway have died in France, health officials here said Friday.

"This mutation could increase the ability of the virus to affect the respiratory tracts and, in particular, the lung tissue," said a statement from the government's Health Surveillance Institute (InVS).

"For one of these patients, this mutation was accompanied by another mutation known to confer resistance to oseltamivir," it added, referring to the main drug being used to treat H1N1 flu, under the brand name Tamiflu.

===

Edited to add the note that a Tami-flu resistant strain coupled with D225, loose in Europe during winter weather - is exceptionally bad news.

Evidently the D225 mutation coupled with an anti-viral resistance will in most cases be fatal. This is not proven, yet the writings seem to point as likely.

===

!

[dragonslayer2001]

You say tomato I say tomatoe. If a person dies from a complication AFTER getting the flu, then it really doesn't matter if the flu alone kills them. Dead is dead.

The recent mutation in the flu deaths in Europe may be directly attacking the lungs. So, in some cases over there, yes it is the 'flu' killing them.

Most of the deaths appear at this point to be pneumonic in flavor. After getting the flu. Dead is dead.

50-100 million dead during the Spanish Flu 90 years ago. So, who really cares what all killed all of them. A great flu swept the world and a lot of people died.



Posted 12/11/2005 9:06 PM


Study: Annual flu death toll could be overstated
By Anita Manning, USA TODAY

Every winter, flu takes its toll on the health of Americans. But how great a toll is being questioned in a review published Saturday in the British Medical Journal.

Peter Doshi, a graduate student at Harvard University, says the estimate by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention of 36,000 flu-related deaths each year is based on "flawed" statistics.

"I found a number of inconsistencies and poor assumptions being made," he says. An example is the CDC's use of "pneumonia and influenza" deaths, taken together, as a basis for estimating deaths caused by flu. He says that link is "arbitrary" and "has the effect of biasing their estimates of flu mortality."

Lab-confirmed flu cases and flu-related deaths, except for those in children, are not reported to the CDC, so estimates of cases are based on a variety of measures, including deaths from pneumonia or circulatory diseases during flu season compared with deaths from those causes when there is no flu around. If the pneumonia deaths jump in January and February, health experts assume some are caused by flu.

Flu by the numbers

Flu season in the USA is October-May. Each year:

5% to 20% of the population develops the flu.

More than 200,000 are hospitalized.

About 36,000 die.

Source: CDC

About 10% of pneumonia deaths are associated with flu, says William Thompson of the CDC's National Immunization Program, but flu also contributes to deaths from other causes.

If you go by death certificates alone, says Martin Meltzer, a CDC expert in health economics, almost nobody dies of flu.

"Somebody can have flu and go to a hospital and die of a heart attack, but he might not have had the heart attack if he hadn't had the flu," Meltzer says. "The death certificates don't read 'influenza,' " he says. "They read 'heart attack,' 'diabetes' and all the fancy things people write down because they don't know what they died of."

The statistical model used to come up with the estimated average of 36,000 deaths each year takes these less obvious cases into account, Meltzer says. They are deaths associated with flu, but not necessarily caused primarily by flu, he says.

"We think if you could prevent flu, you would prevent a large proportion of these deaths," Meltzer says.

Until 2003, the CDC had estimated 20,000 deaths per year, but in a study published in The Journal of the American Medical Association, of which Thompson was the lead author, researchers concluded that flu-related deaths had increased during the 1980s and 1990s to between 17,000 and 51,000 deaths annually, an average of 36,000. They attributed that partly to a rise in the number of elderly people, who are at higher risk of dying from flu complications, and to virulent strains circulating in the '90s.

Thompson's estimates were based on statistics reported between 1976 and 1999, and his analysis is "state of the art," Meltzer says. Only data from lab tests on hundreds of thousands of patients would provide greater accuracy, he says. "It's the best estimate we can do at the moment."


http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...u-deaths_x.htm

.................................................. ....


During the Great Pandemic of 1918 about 30% of the US population got it.

Imagine 125,000,000 Americans getting the 'flu' between now and this time next year.


Will it happen? I don't know. But I do know history. Make a population sufficiently sick enough and the food and health chain break down. Do that and plague and famine follow. ALWAYS.



Cortes and a thousand Spanish soldiers and 30,000 Indian allies did not bring down the Aztec Empire of a couple of million.

Small Poxs did.

[jsmalone1]

the 3 greatest scams of our time 1. Man-Made Global Warming (and when that doesn't work change name to "climate change") 2. Ethanol--enough said 3. Swine Flu. -------All distractions for the masses---focus on the real issues folks!!!!

[Hansa44]

Just in case things are moving too slowly for you. you might want to read this!


1918 REVISITED: LESSONS AND SUGGESTIONS FOR FURTHER INQUIRY

John M. Barry
Distinguished Visiting Scholar
Center for Bioenvironmental Research at Tulane and Xavier Universities

The 1918–1919 influenza pandemic killed more people in absolute numbers than any other disease outbreak in history. A contemporary estimate put the death toll at 21 million, a figure that persists in the media today, but understates the real number. Epidemiologists and scientists have revised that figure several times since then. Each and every revision has been upward. Frank Macfarlane Burnet, who won his Nobel Prize for immunology but who spent most of his life studying influenza, estimated the death toll as probably 50 million, and possibly as high as 100 million. A 2002 epidemiologic study also estimates the deaths at between 50 and 100 million (Johnson and Mueller, 2002).

The world population in 1918 was only 28 percent of today’s population. Adjusting for population, a comparable toll today would be 175 to 350 million...

...A letter from a physician at one U.S. Army camp to a colleague puts a more human face on those numbers:

These men start with what appears to be an ordinary attack of LaGrippe or Influenza, and when brought to the Hosp. they very rapidly develop the most vicious type of Pneumonia that has ever been seen … and a few hours later you can begin to see the Cyanosis extending from their ears and spreading all over the face, until it is hard to distinguish the colored men from the white. It is only a matter of a few hours then until death comes…. It is horrible. One can stand it to see one, two or twenty men die, but to see these poor devils dropping like flies…. We have been averaging about 100 deaths per day…. Pneumonia means in about all cases death…. We have lost an outrageous number of Nurses and Drs. It takes special trains to carry away the dead. For several days there were no coffins and the bodies piled up something fierce…. It beats any sight they ever had in France after a battle. An extra long barracks has been vacated for the use of the Morgue, and it would make any man sit up and take notice to walk down the long lines of dead soldiers all dressed and laid out in double rows…. Good By old Pal, God be with you till we meet again (Grist, 1979).

That letter reflected a typical experience in American Army cantonments...

...But 1918 seems to have been particularly violent. It began mildly, with a spring wave. In fact, it was so mild that some physicians wonder if this disease actually was influenza. Typically, several Italian doctors argued in separate journal articles that this “febrile disease now widely prevalent in Italy [is] not influenza” (Policlinico, 1918). British doctors echoed that conclusion; a Lancet article in July 1918 argued that the spring epidemic was not influenza because the symptoms, though similar to influenza, were “of very short duration and so far absent of relapses or complications” (Little et al., 1918).

Within a few weeks of that Lancet article appearing, a second pandemic wave swept around the world. It also initially caused investigators to doubt that the disease was influenza—but this time because it was so virulent. It was followed by a third wave in 1919, and significant disease also struck in 1920. (Victims of the first wave enjoyed significant resistance to the second and third waves, offering compelling evidence that all were caused by the same virus. It is worth noting that the 1889–1890 pandemic also came in waves, but the third wave seemed to be the most lethal.)

The 1918 virus, especially in its second wave, was not only virulent and lethal, but extraordinarily violent. It created a range of symptoms rarely seen with the disease. After H5N1 first appeared in 1997, pathologists reported some findings “not previously described with influenza” (To et al., 2001). In fact, investigators in 1918 described every pathological change seen with H5N1 and more (Jordon, 1927:266–268).

Symptoms in 1918 were so unusual that initially influenza was misdiagnosed as dengue, cholera, or typhoid. One observer wrote, “One of the most striking of the complications was hemorrhage from mucous membranes, especially from the nose, stomach, and intestine. Bleeding from the ears and petechial hemorrhages in the skin also occurred” (Ireland, 1928:57). A German investigator recorded “hemorrhages occurring in different parts of the interior of the eye” with great frequency (Thomson and Thomson, 1934b). An American pathologist noted: “Fifty cases of subconjunctival hemorrhage were counted. Twelve had a true hemotypsis, bright red blood with no admixture of mucus…. Three cases had intestinal hemorrhage” (Ireland, 1928:13). The New York City Health Department’s chief pathologist said, “Cases with intense pain look and act like cases of dengue … hemorrhage from nose or bronchi … paresis or paralysis of either cerebral or spinal origin … impairment of motion may be severe or mild, permanent or temporary … physical and mental depression. Intense and protracted prostration led to hysteria, melancholia, and insanity with suicidal intent” (Jordon, 1927:265)...

...The case mortality rate varied widely. An overall figure is impossible to obtain, or even estimate reliably, because no solid information about total cases exists. In U.S. Army camps where reasonably reliable statistics were kept, case mortality often exceeded 5 percent, and in some circumstances exceeded 10 percent. In the British Army in India, case mortality for white troops was 9.6 percent, for Indian troops 21.9 percent.
In isolated human populations, the virus killed at even higher rates. In the Fiji islands, it killed 14 percent of the entire population in 16 days. In Labrador and Alaska, it killed at least one-third of the entire native population (Jordan, 1927; Rice, 1988)....

...But the viral pneumonias caused by the influenza pandemic were so violent that many investigators said the only lungs they had seen that resembled them were from victims of poison gas.

Then, the Army called them “atypical pneumonias.” Today we would call this atypical pneumonia Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome (ARDS). The Army’s pneumonia board judged that “more than half” of all the deaths among soldiers came from this atypical pneumonia (Ireland, 1928).

One cannot extrapolate from this directly to the civilian population. Army figures represent a special case both in terms of demographics and environment, including overcrowded barracks.

Even so, the fact that ARDS likely caused more than half the deaths among young adults sends a warning. ARDS mortality rates today range from 40 to 60 percent, even with support in modern intensive care units (ICUs). In a pandemic, ICUs would be quickly overwhelmed, representing a major challenge for public health planners...

...Simultaneously, the government mounted a massive propaganda effort. An architect of that effort said, “Truth and falsehood are arbitrary terms…. There is nothing in experience to tell us that one is always preferable to the other…. The force of an idea lies in its inspirational value. It matters very little if it is true or false” (Vaughn, 1980).

The combination of rigid control and disregard for truth had dangerous consequences. Focusing on the shortest term, local officials almost universally told half-truths or outright lies to avoid damaging morale and the war effort. They were assisted—not challenged—by the press, which although not censored in a technical sense cooperated fully with the government’s propaganda machine.

Routinely, as influenza approached a city or town—one could watch it march from place to place—local officials initially told the public not to worry, that public health officials would prevent the disease from striking them. When influenza first appeared, officials routinely insisted at first it was only ordinary influenza, not the Spanish flu. As the epidemic exploded, officials almost daily assured the public that the worst was over.

This pattern repeated itself again and again. Chicago offers one example: Its public health commissioner said he’d do “nothing to interfere with the morale of the community…. It is our duty to keep the people from fear. Worry kills more people than the epidemic” (Robertson, 1918).

That idea—“Fear kills more than the disease”—became a mantra nationally and in city after city. As Literary Digest, one of the largest circulation periodicals in the country, advised, “Fear is our first enemy” (Van Hartesveldt, 1992).

In Philadelphia, when the public health commissioner closed all schools, houses of worship, theaters, and other public gathering places, one newspaper went so far as to say that this order was “not a public health measure” and reiterated that “there is no cause for panic or alarm.”

But as people heard these reassurances, they could see neighbors, friends, and spouses dying horrible deaths.

In Chicago, the Cook County Hospital mortality rate of all influenza admissions—not just those who developed pneumonia—was 39.8 percent (Keeton and Cusman, 1918). In Philadelphia, bodies remained uncollected in homes for days, until eventually open trucks and even horse-drawn carts were sent down city streets and people were told to bring out the dead. The bodies were stacked without coffins and buried in cemeteries in mass graves dug by steam shovels.

This horrific disconnect between reassurances and reality destroyed the credibility of those in authority. People felt they had no one to turn to, no one to rely on, no one to trust.

Ultimately society depends on trust. Without it, society began to come apart. Normally in 1918 America, when someone was ill, neighbors helped. That did not happen during the pandemic. Typically, the head of one city’s volunteer effort, frustrated after repeated pleas for help yielded nothing, turned bitter and contemptuous:

Hundreds of women who are content to sit back had delightful dreams of themselves in the roles of angels of mercy, had the unfathomable vanity to imagine that they were capable of great sacrifice. Nothing seems to rouse them now. They have been told that there are families in which every member is ill, in which the children are actually starving because there is no one to give them food. The death rate is so high and they still hold back.3

That attitude persisted outside of cities as well. In rural Kentucky, the Red Cross reported “people starving to death not from lack of food but because the well were panic stricken and would not go near the sick” (An Account of the Influenza Epidemic, 1919).

As the pressure from the virus continued, an internal Red Cross report concluded, “A fear and panic of the influenza, akin to the terror of the Middle Ages regarding the Black Plague, [has] been prevalent in many parts of the country” (The Mobilization of the American National Red Cross, 1920). Similarly, Victor Vaughan, a sober scientist not given to overstatement, worried, “If the epidemic continues its mathematical rate of acceleration, civilization could easily … disappear … from the face of the earth within a matter of a few more weeks” (Collier, 1974).

Of course, the disease generated fear independent of anything officials did or did not do, but the false reassurances given by the authorities and the media systematically destroyed trust. That magnified the fear and turned it into panic and terror.

It is worth noting that this terror, at least in paralyzing form, did not seem to materialize in the few places where authorities told the truth.



http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11150&page=58
__________________

[dragonslayer2001]

and when that doesn't work change name to "climate change




nothing personal but you really don't have a clue.


next time the sun is shining, go take a good long look at it.


it is no longer yellow. it turned WHITE almost a decade ago. I am still amazed at the vast majority that still haven't noticed.


major changes on the sun, on this planet, and on most of the other planets in our Solar System............... just in time for a major financial collapse, and possibly a world wide pandemic. possibly a real one, though that is yet to be seen.

[momof23goats]

It really doesn't matter what is killing you, when your dead your dead.
that is rally all ther is to it.

[Old Gray Mare]

So far on the whole I'd say we have been lucky. H1N1 could have been much worse. Thing is, it is not over yet.

[Garf]

Originally Posted by dragonslayer2001

and when that doesn't work change name to "climate change




nothing personal but you really don't have a clue.


next time the sun is shining, go take a good long look at it.


it is no longer yellow. it turned WHITE almost a decade ago. I am still amazed at the vast majority that still haven't noticed.


major changes on the sun, on this planet, and on most of the other planets in our Solar System............... just in time for a major financial collapse, and possibly a world wide pandemic. possibly a real one, though that is yet to be seen.

Any eye Doctor will tell you that you should not take "a good long look" at the sun.
It'll cause your eyes great stress, and the consequence is that the apparent colour of the sun, will go from yellow to white.
They say it takes about ten years for your eyes to get that damaged.

[mbabulldog]

yeah, no disrespect, but people have been MORE secluded during the Thanksgiving holiday than they normally would be during everyday lives.

They haven't been riding in buses, trains, planes, with countless others. They haven't been sitting in class with countless others, riding in elevators, sitting in meetings, walking down the street, been to sporting events/concerts, etc.

Sorry, I really don't expect to see a spike simply from this holiday...

[OddOne]

I still think H1N1 by itself is a relative non-issue but a combination of H1N1 and other disorders, diseases, and conditions is a fatal brew. Having H1N1 doen't guarantee death, but if you have TB or an autoimmune issue or weak lungs or anything else that mixes with it you're the walking dead.

[Hansa44]

Originally Posted by mbabulldog

yeah, no disrespect, but people have been MORE secluded during the Thanksgiving holiday than they normally would be during everyday lives.

They haven't been riding in buses, trains, planes, with countless others. They haven't been sitting in class with countless others, riding in elevators, sitting in meetings, walking down the street, been to sporting events/concerts, etc.

Sorry, I really don't expect to see a spike simply from this holiday...

Actually, black friday and the beginning of Christmas shopping maddness could creat a huge spike in this flu.

I cannot believe how many clerks I have seen coughing their heads off and I saw one weds. that said she was burning up. She looked horrible. I got out of there fast and used my sanitizing lotion.

By the way...she was stocking food items.

[Old Gray Mare]

Yes this may be the most traveled weekend in the US. Remember this is also the time of the Hajj and thousands of religious pilgrims will be returing home world wide from Mecca.

[sy32478]

Originally Posted by dragonslayer2001

it is no longer yellow. it turned WHITE almost a decade ago. I am still amazed at the vast majority that still haven't noticed.

I've noticed that for a long time now and I assumed it was due to some atmospheric change rather than the sun itself.

[LoupGarou]

Add in millions of people stopping at dozens of rest stops and filling stations each, all sharing the air with each other...

And millions of muslims all coming back from their Hajj in the ME, all spending days together with millions of others that came from around the world, walking around a rock in a box, again and again and again...

And millions more people flying for at least an hour or two each, sharing the air that anywhere from a few dozen people to a few hundred people are breathing, recirculated again and again and again...

Yep, could get interesting.

Loup

[Red Sky]

The doctor I saw Wed. at one of those walk-in clinics told me that there was an upswing in the number of flu cases in town. She and the nurse were both wearing masks. I don't think she would have said that if it weren't true. And if this flu is nothing to worry about, why are the medical professionals wearing masks? The nurse said that many of the rapid tests were showing up positive faster than the normal 15 minute waiting time. I don't know if that is significant or not. So, if the medical professionals are concerned, then I am also.

[Matilda]

Originally Posted by dragonslayer2001

next time the sun is shining, go take a good long look at it.


it is no longer yellow. it turned WHITE almost a decade ago. I am still amazed at the vast majority that still haven't noticed.

Do you have any links explaining this phenomenon? I've noticed it but can't seem to find any reasonable scientific explanation about why it's happening and what it means for us.

[Zulu Cowboy]

Regarding hospitals preparing for a great swine flu influx??
I work at a major metropolitan hospital here in Nashville. Back in September, they implemented a big program to urge/force all employees to get both the regular flu shot...and the swine flu shot. We were told that those who choose not to receive the vaccines, would be required to start wearing N-95 masks, for the entire duration of their shift. This was to begin Oct. 1st.

Most employees took the regular flu shot...(not me), and received a colored sticker, which they must wear on their name tag, to indicate compliance. They put up posters all over the facility urging employees to 'take the shot' for the safety of our patients. Then for some reason, they pushed the deadline back for wearing the masks, to Nov. 1st. (No swine flu shots available...). Now here it is, almost December and we STILL haven't seen any swine flu vaccines, that I'm aware of.

So the whole thing has been quietly dropped. They did put out alcohol hand sanitizer on every floor, for the visitors. But the big push to get the employees vaccinated against H1N1 has fizzled. They are NOT segregating patients who come into the ER with flu symptoms...they are NOT putting masks on people who come in coughing...nothing.


Zulu Cowboy

[dragonslayer2001]

Hello Matida,


I don't recall the exact arguments about the sun turning white, but it has, and it has been this way for about 10 years or so.

Here is an interesting article on some of the major changes. I DO NOT agree with everything this author has put into his article, but much of it is and has been happening.



http://www.realitysandwich.com/polar_reversals

[Volleyball Granny]

Originally Posted by jsmalone1

the 3 greatest scams of our time 1. Man-Made Global Warming (and when that doesn't work change name to "climate change") 2. Ethanol--enough said 3. Swine Flu. -------All distractions for the masses---focus on the real issues folks!!!!

1. Man-made global warming is the scam--climate changes, but man has little impact on the changes.
2. The idea that Ethanol will 'save the world' is the scam--food products diverted to make Ethanol will contribute to world famine.
3. H1N1 is the scam--either it is more serious than we are led to believe or H1N1 is less serious than we are led to believe. Watch and prepare.

Any time there is a real issue on the horizon, one of the 3 scams hits the news--even if the story is just that one of them is a scam.

[TECH32]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I'm not concerned about H1N1. When huge piles of bodies failed to materialize in the spring people said "just you wait for the 2nd wave this fall - that's how the 1918 flu worked!!". Well, we're almost into December and this flu doesn't appear to be any worse than other flus.

No empty offices. No empty buses or trains. No shortages of food or fuel. No piles of bodies waiting to be burned.

A small percentage are dying (just as with other flus) and some of them may have had previous issues contributing to their deaths (same as other flus). Yeah, the flu sucks when you get it (same as any other year) but it's not even CLOSE to where the 1918 flu was.

All in all this thing was waaaay overhyped and those predicting doom and gloom are deperately trying to hang on to some semblence of credibility (just like the global warming nuts).

[Zulu Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Volleyball Granny

"...Any time there is a real issue on the horizon, one of the 3 scams hits the news--even if the story is just that one of them is a scam."

Exactly!

They are using deception to divert attention away from what's really going on in the world. The destruction of the world's economy, and the imposition of a global government to 'solve' all these global problems that they themselves created.

Global pandemic...
Global warming...
Global credit crisis...
With Global Government being the only solution...

It's evil...and it's all based on lies.

The only card, they have yet to play...(once their massive fraud has been exposed)...is global nuclear war.

Zulu Cowboy

[Rex Jackson]

Good point and I was thinking about this on Tuesday. My other though is that most people, more than realize, all ready have been or have gotten this 'flu'.

[Red Sky]

It is certainly true that if people are worried about the possibility of dying, they won't care one bit about what else is going on in the world. And of course many people are so wrapped up in their own lives that they wouldn't see danger if it was starring them in the face.

[Christian for Israel]

Originally Posted by dragonslayer2001

and when that doesn't work change name to "climate change




nothing personal but you really don't have a clue.


next time the sun is shining, go take a good long look at it.


it is no longer yellow. it turned WHITE almost a decade ago. I am still amazed at the vast majority that still haven't noticed.


major changes on the sun, on this planet, and on most of the other planets in our Solar System............... just in time for a major financial collapse, and possibly a world wide pandemic. possibly a real one, though that is yet to be seen.

nice way to take a quote out of context DS...the original statement was MAN MADE climate change.

[ainitfunny]

Some people live their lives eternally enrolled in the school of hard knocks. Mostly, they are blindsided and unprepared for things that a good percentage of others have already made allowance, prepared for or generally avert due to their respect for the value of learning from other people's mistakes and suffering.

For those who cannot grasp the relevance of things to which other people seem to attach significance and who scoff at the importance or "odds" that they personally will encounter whatever particular obstacle to health, wealth, and happiness is being discussed, I wish them well. I also know that an "ignorance is bliss" lifestyle actually DOES have almost as many joys as curses. Knowing and amending your life to minimize and avert as many as practically and prudently avoidable perils INDEED DOES take some of the carefree, childlike innocent joy out of life. But that either involves someone who actually IS responsible acting as your "nanny" or "authority" from whom you must get permission, or a cold, painful brush with the unpleasant realities that really rule us.

UNEMPLOYMENT is nothing to worry about or plan for UNTIL IT IS YOU THAT BECOMES UNEMPLOYED.

Swine Flu? No big deal, Till it is YOU, YOUR CHILD, YOUR WIFE who cannot breathe, may die, and is fighting to breathe. Then when the medical bills bankrupt you and your child coughs up blood and you rightly fear she could die, you're like a person "waking up'.

Crime? It's just "a news filler delaying the game scores" TILL YOU HAVE BEEN MUGGED, your car stolen, your identity stolen or your home burglarized.

The school of hard knocks has a lot of alumni. To them perception is everything. But they, like everyone, learn... eventually, painfully.

[SurfaceTension]

Originally Posted by ainitfunny

Some people live their lives eternally enrolled in the school of hard knocks. Mostly, they are blindsided and unprepared for things that a good percentage of others have already made allowance, prepared for or generally avert due to their respect for the value of learning from other people's mistakes and suffering.

Well said!

[Loon]

Originally Posted by bbkaren

[sigh] Seasonal flu kills the very old, the very young, and the sick/weak.

H1N1 kills the young and strong.

Oh, and seasonal flu does NOT kill 36,000 Americans every year. Seasonal flu kills around 1,500 (very old, very young, and sick/weak) Americans each year.

American Lung Association data here. Please see page 14 (printed on the doc) for data on the ages that are killed by seasonal flu, and data on how many people die of seasonal flu each year:
http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0...ZmJhODQ4&hl=en

Please help stop the spread of silly, dangerous misinformation.

Key Facts About Seasonal Influenza (Flu)
What is Influenza (Also Called Flu)?
The flu is a contagious respiratory illness caused by influenza viruses. It can cause mild to severe illness, and at times can lead to death. The best way to prevent seasonal flu is by getting a seasonal flu vaccination each year.

Every year in the United States, on average:

•5% to 20% of the population gets the flu;
•more than 200,000 people are hospitalized from flu-related complications; and
•about 36,000 people die from flu-related causes.
Some people, such as older people, young children, pregnant women and people with certain health conditions (such as asthma, diabetes, or heart disease), are at increased risk for serious complications from seasonal flu illness.

This flu season, scientists believe that a new and very different flu virus (called novel 2009 H1N1) may cause a lot more people to get sick than during a regular flu season. It also may cause more hospital stays and deaths than regular seasonal flu. More information about the new H1N1 flu is available here.



http://www.cdc.gov/Flu/keyfacts.htm

[TECH32]

Originally Posted by ainitfunny

UNEMPLOYMENT is nothing to worry about or plan for UNTIL IT IS YOU THAT BECOMES UNEMPLOYED.

Swine Flu? No big deal, Till it is YOU, YOUR CHILD, YOUR WIFE who cannot breathe, may die, and is fighting to breathe. Then when the medical bills bankrupt you and your child coughs up blood and you rightly fear she could die, you're like a person "waking up'.

That's just absurd.

You might as well say "GETTING HIT BY A CAR is nothing to worry about UNTIL IT IS YOU THAT GETS HIT"

It's one thing to be cautious and look both ways when crossing the street, and quite another to run screaming away from the road every time a car approaches...

[ainitfunny]

Originally Posted by TECH32

That's just absurd.

You might as well say "GETTING HIT BY A CAR is nothing to worry about UNTIL IT IS YOU THAT GETS HIT"

It's one thing to be cautious and look both ways when crossing the street, and quite another to run screaming away from the road every time a car approaches...

I was NOT addressing someone who takes reasonable, prudent and appropriate precautions. Looking before you cross the street is all that is required and all I would advise. But I refer to people who scoff at the prospect and potential of contracting H1N1 and go to a dinner when they KNOW someone with a confirmed case of swine flu will be there, someone who IS ON TAMIFLU, was bedridden and feverish, with pneumonia having trouble breathing, less than 48 hours before that dinner, and who decided since the fever broke it is OK to go to the family gathering.

Fatalism is not always a helpful survival technique.

News24
H1N1 contagious period 'longer'
2009-09-15 12:07
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* Swine flu death toll at 3 205
* School closures can slow virus
* Dose of good news

Marilynn Marchione

San Francisco - When the coughing stops is probably a better sign of when an H1N1 flu patient is no longer contagious, experts said after seeing new research that suggests the virus can still spread many days after a fever goes away.

The federal Centres for Disease Control and Prevention has been telling people to stay home from work and school and avoid contact with others until a day after their fever breaks. The new research suggests they may need to be careful for longer - especially at home where the risk of spreading the germ is highest.

H1N1 flu also appears to be contagious longer than ordinary seasonal flu, several experts said.

"This study shows you're not contagious for a day or two. You're probably contagious for about a week," said Gaston De Serres, a scientist at the Institute of Public Health in Quebec.

He presented one of the studies on Monday at an American Society for Microbiology conference. It is the first big meeting of infectious disease experts since last spring's emergence of swine flu, which now accounts for nearly all of the flu cases in the United States. More than 1 million Americans have been infected and nearly 600 have died from it, the CDC estimates.

It is unclear whether the new research will lead the CDC to rethink its advice on how long people with H1N1 flu should hole up. Long breaks from school and work do not seem worth it for a virus that now seems to cause mostly mild illness, said the CDC's flu chief, Nancy Cox. H1N1 flu is spreading so widely now that confining the sick does less good, she said.

"We tried to have our guidance balance out all of these factors," she said. "It's just virtually impossible not to have virus introduced into settings such as schools and universities."

'It's probably realistic that this virus sheds much longer than seasonal flu'

Doctors know that people can spread ordinary seasonal flu for a couple of days before and after symptoms start by studying virus that patients shed in mucus. The first such studies of H1N1 flu are just coming out now, and they imply a longer contagious period for the novel bug.

"It's probably realistic that this virus sheds much longer than seasonal flu," said Dr Jonathan McCullers, an infectious diseases specialist at St Jude Children's Research Hospital in Memphis, Tennessee.

Three reports suggest this is so. De Serres and other researchers in Canada took nose and throat swabs from 43 patients with lab-confirmed flu and dozens of other sick family members.

On the eighth day after symptoms first appeared, 19 to 75% showed signs of virus remaining in their noses, depending on the type of test used.

"This proportion appears to be very big, and it is," but it's not clear how much virus is needed to actually spread flu, so the lower number is more reliable, he said.

Dr David C Lye reported on 70 patients treated at Tan Tock Seng Hospital in Singapore. Using a very sensitive test to detect virus in the nose or throat, he found that 80% had it five days after symptoms began, and 40% seven days after. Some still harboured virus as long as 16 days later. How soon they started on antiviral medicines such as Tamiflu made a difference in how much virus was found, but not whether virus was present at all.

A third report came from Dr Guillermo Ruiz-Palacios of the National Institutes of Medical Science and Nutrition in Mexico, where the first cases of H1N1 flu were detected.

Signs like coughing may matter more

Infected people "shed the virus for a very, very long time", often for more than a week after the start of symptoms, he told the conference. This was especially true of obese people, and patients who started on medicines longer than two days after symptoms first appeared.

The new reports suggest a longer contagious period for H1N1 flu, but how long is not clear, Cox said. Even with it in your nose, "you might not be shedding enough virus to infect other people", she said.

That is why signs like coughing may matter more, De Serres said.

"Contagiousness varies, not only with the presence of the virus, but the other symptoms that would make you transmit," he said.

H1N1 flu symptoms can include fever, cough, sore throat, runny or stuffy nose, body aches, headache, chills and fatigue, and sometimes diarrhea and vomiting. Young children may be cranky, less playful or not eat as much as normal, the CDC advises.

The agency's advice to stay home for a day after fever breaks does not apply to health care settings. There, confinement for seven days from the start of symptoms - or until they go away, whichever is longer - is still advised.

People who have had H1N1 flu should cover their mouths when they cough or sneeze and wash their hands a lot once they do return to work and school, the CDC says.

- SAPA

[dragonslayer2001]

the virus has mutated......... or has been let loose, time will tell, with a receptor that matches one from 1918. This one goes deep into the lungs. Several of the dead have had it, and supposedly from the CDC, several of the survivors have had it to,


so, time will tell.


The dead are not dropping like flys, but this is only the second go around of this flu. The third will tell.


IF the third or fourth wave is a killer, and Tech gets on whinning for sympathy for him or his, I'll diss him.



Lot's of people are tough talkers till the sh_t hits them in the face. And most of what Tech does is ride other people.

[Old Gray Mare]

Originally Posted by ainitfunny

The school of hard knocks has a lot of alumni. To them perception is everything. But they, like everyone, learn... eventually, painfully.

Tuition at this institution of learning can be very costly.

There has been some thread drift from the original topic: "CDC should be issuing a "Stock up, prepare for FLOOD of H1N1 cases in next 2 weeks". If someone is serious about prepping their family to survive a plague with potentially multiple waves lasting approximately 3 months each, that means 90 to 180 days of food, water and supplies in the home for 1 to 2 waves of flu. The government has taken an "All Hazards" approach to emergency preparedness in their websites. From what I have seen of their web sites this appears to mean prepare for common short term emergencies with the expectation assistance from areas outside the area hit by the emergency will be able to send help within 1 to 2 weeks. There is usually a CYA caveat in the text on government web sites encouraging emergency prepparedness stating that supplies for longer periods are recommended. The only exception to this are the websites for the US State Department's foreign Embassies and Missions. The fine print in some of these have recommended citizens living or working abroad in specific areas have supplies for several months.

[TimeTraveler]

Originally Posted by fredkc

1. So far, H1N1 has turned out to be the "Great Big Bad Ugly Death-Dealing Flu" that wasn't.

2. The regular plain ol' e'ryday flu strain has been a nastier bug to catch than H1N1 anyway.

I'ma thinkin' more people probably choked on deviled eggs, than caught the flu over the holiday, so most likely the CDC is taking this opportunity to say absolutely nothing, in hopes they'll get back a smidgen of credibility.

Obviously your mileage may vary. just my $0.02 worth.

Fred

You're right on the money. I was in a Hospital Emergency Dept. yesterday. Very few people there at all. I asked the Doc if he is seeing many cases of H1N1 and he commented that he was seeing a few cases now and then but no crowds of people comming in with any of the flues. TT

[dragonslayer2001]

the 3 greatest scams of our time 1. Man-Made Global Warming (and when that doesn't work change name to "climate change")





nope. I wasn't wrong. Poster said man-made global warming was the #1 greatest scam, and then added and addendum that when that stopped working, the scam was renamed to 'climate change'.

[Cjoi]

Originally Posted by ainitfunny

Some people live their lives eternally enrolled in the school of hard knocks. Mostly, they are blindsided and unprepared for things that a good percentage of others have already made allowance, prepared for or generally avert due to their respect for the value of learning from other people's mistakes and suffering.

For those who cannot grasp the relevance of things to which other people seem to attach significance and who scoff at the importance or "odds" that they personally will encounter whatever particular obstacle to health, wealth, and happiness is being discussed, I wish them well. I also know that an "ignorance is bliss" lifestyle actually DOES have almost as many joys as curses. Knowing and amending your life to minimize and avert as many as practically and prudently avoidable perils INDEED DOES take some of the carefree, childlike innocent joy out of life. But that either involves someone who actually IS responsible acting as your "nanny" or "authority" from whom you must get permission, or a cold, painful brush with the unpleasant realities that really rule us.

UNEMPLOYMENT is nothing to worry about or plan for UNTIL IT IS YOU THAT BECOMES UNEMPLOYED.

Swine Flu? No big deal, Till it is YOU, YOUR CHILD, YOUR WIFE who cannot breathe, may die, and is fighting to breathe. Then when the medical bills bankrupt you and your child coughs up blood and you rightly fear she could die, you're like a person "waking up'.

Crime? It's just "a news filler delaying the game scores" TILL YOU HAVE BEEN MUGGED, your car stolen, your identity stolen or your home burglarized.

The school of hard knocks has a lot of alumni. To them perception is everything. But they, like everyone, learn... eventually, painfully.

quoted just because you said it so well, Ainitfunny and because I selfishly want to find it easily for future reference!

This stuff goes quickly for the bronchii/lungs. It is at least a binary (or trinary) weapon that is potentiated by underlying conditions. This is a non-accidentally augmented, non-accidentally spread, bio-weapon. This is one of the most serious respiratory infx I've ever experienced NOTHING is really doing more than putting a dent in the symptoms. [The Rx Benzonatate / aka Tessalon pills for cough hardly touch this.]

Know that I have very extensive lifelong experience with respiratory infections. This flu attacks upper respiratory in a different way than I've ever experienced, before. (Fortunately my chest xray showed no pneumonia but the bronchitis feels worse and different that any other, IMHO. )

I feel especially blessed that we have stocked an abundant variety of antivirals and use/d them liberally and starting very early. My virus infections invariably and quickly develop a bacterial infection so having the highest dose of Augmentin along with all the other items in the plan ready - that and timely care from my husband and family offer a chance to fight the effects of this thing - otherwise it is clearly a game changer. I am making respiratory noises that I never heard coming from Grandpa (whose lungs were badly burned by ether in WWI) nor even from Daddy this year when I held him for a month of hospice as his lungs filled from CHF/COPD. "Please if you are very ill and you have flu symptoms go to your doctor so he can prescribe Tamiflu. [irks me to promote donald dumbsfeld's $$-making pharma!] It does lessen the symptoms if you take it within the first 24-48 hours. If it is upper respiratory it probably is H1N1." -quote from Dutch's flu thread


highly therapeutic stress doses of cortisones ( hydrocortisone 20-200mg/day divided doses or prednisone 20mg BID) Isocort is OTC, online at 2.5mg per pellet.
two kinds of inhalers - one rescue inhaler and one with inhaled corticosteriod
Tamiflu
Sambucol ( or generic elderberry syrup )
Occillococcinum (Flu Ease - Whole Foods brand)
Homeopathic Arnica pellets
Zinc
Zicam homeopathic swabs (contain only homeopathic "suggestion of zinc" = zincum)
Mucinex [did you remember you were supposed to buy 2 monitored OTC flu/cold remedies such as the Mucinex D - PER MONTH to prep for this?]
Dextromethorfan
Curcumin & Peperine taken together (or at least lots of Turmeric and black pepper)
Onions
Brazil Nuts
Ginger
Breathing in Vicks VapoRub smeared on the surface of a hot steamy wash cloth
Vitamin D3 and Sunshine if you have it.
Cold Snap (Chinese herbal combo)
Chrysanthemum tea
medicinal food mushrooms


Lots of fluids, hot drinks, bone broths, and keep your electrolytes balanced (esp. important w/ diuretics, heart meds, or diabetes, on board )

stand toothbrush - bristles down - in an inch of hydrogen peroxide in between uses to kill the cooties (be careful to label and DO NOT ACCIDENTALLY DRINK THIS in a confused state!!! )


any other good thing not remembered at this flu-foggy moment....


Yes, Ainitfunny, mugged is a nice way to put it. Don't believe in the vaccine religion, here. The politics of flu management are studies in marketing death and disease and modern stampeeding. This is not a naturally occurring flu, even if it contains fragments that started out in nature the cross-genic splicing and the "accidents" related to its release upon populations - well, the evidence is there if a person has the focus, the intellectual honesty to search just what is in the public domain...



Sorry, if all this qualifies for posting under the influence (No alcohol in the meds whatsoever but man o man this can knock you for a loop.)



Time for a nap...

after nap - searching for SSKI ( Saturated Solution of Potassium Iodate, an old-fashioned universal med that thins mucous ) to go with the new grocery bag full of new and restock supply of antivirals. (Gotta go check out Tom's products in a minute, too. 7x, maybe CC said...)
Begged DH to take me out for a small outing and used a surgical mask at Whole Foods despite the looks. Or maybe they thought I was wierd because of no tattoos, no mutilations, and only one pair of pierced earrings?