PREP Need ideas for a 'Family Book of Rules' once SHTF

[spinnaker]

removed by original poster to avoid the grief.

[BlueNewton]

Given how you have described your family, you would all be crazy to move in under one roof. Most everyone needs to move in with roommates, instead. Those rules won't work. They won't accomodate the varied personalities and disparate views of your siblings. (MAKING someone participate in bible studies? Are you serious? Good luck with that. And are you going to be barring someone from eating when you think they haven't worked hard enough?) You will have World War 3 on your hands and your mother will suffer greatly.

[Terriannie]

Aside from the fact that most money WTSHTF will be either worthless or super highly inflated I don't think any one particular member of your family will be able to hold on to their own individual accounts should you move in together anyway....including yours.

I agree that rules should be set both for money allotment and also chores. Write them down according to each other's expertise.

As far as forcing your Socialist brother to read the Bible, that almost sounds well, like a little family dictatorship don't you think? I would think that the WTSHTF experience will drive him to the Lord but if not then that is up to him....totally. You cannot drag someone to God. Only live the Word of the Lord as an example.

Now, you do have your own needs too. As the one who make the schedule, I would suggest you request respect and quiet during your Bible reading time.

[Running Dog]

I would pray and ask the Lord what to do. He knows whats best.

[goatlady2]

When TS really HTF there will be NO jobs, there will be NO checks coming in from SS or unemployment, so your "rules" will be a moot point. My kids already know and have known for quite a while I do NOT run a democracy in my houise. Your family needs to know IN ADVANCE, like ASAP, what to expect from you and Mom so they have time to make other arrangements while they still can. The sticking point is HOW will you enforce your rules in the first place. What leverage do you have that WILL inforce your rules. Seems to me they would outnumber you and be physically bigger and stronger than you.

[G-Man]

If you move into the family home, your unemployment/SS revenue is added to the family pot in it's totality.

You should charge a certain amount of "rent" to each person, but to try and demand all their money/income is a bit selfish on your part - almost like you can't wait to get your hands on their money.

Also someone drawing an SS check usually either elderly or disabled and should not be "required" to look for work daily!!!!

Those drawing unemployment are already required to look for work, you should not involve yourself in the process already set up by the Unemployment Department of your state.

All members should contribute to the food bill, and if they want extras buy them themselves.

"Bible Reading" is wonderful but more important is for one to apply what they read/learn from it in their daily lives.

You say everyone in your faimly is down in out and you are the only one still doing well, you never know when that table may be turned......

[alpha]

Dear Friend,

Since you, having done nothing to prepare for hard times, have stated that in case of an emergency you (and family) will be coming to my home to be sheltered, the following is a list of what you are required to bring with you and what is expected of you (and your family members).

You must bring:

• Sleeping bag, pillow, and blankets (for you will be sleeping on the floor), towels as we don’t have enough for our family and yours.
• All food stuffs, canned goods, dry goods, spices, seeds to help feed your family - enough for one year.
• Cash, gold, silver, jewelry -- may be used to help pay your way once here and will be used as needed for supplies.
• Clothing for winter and summer, along with hats, gloves, coats, rain gear extra boots, shoes for each person.
• Laundry soap, bath soap, shampoo.
• All camping gear, tents, tarps, stoves, cookware, etc.
• Any weapons, ammo, reloading components and dies for all calibers with a preference for military calibers.
• Diapers, extra clothing, formula, etc for any infants.
• All medicines, prescription and over the counter medications, first aid kit for your family.
• School books and lesson plans for school aged children.
• Extra cans of gasoline, propane, diesel, flashlights, solar panels, batteries.
• Pet food -- if you bring a pet and pet carrier, the pets must not interfere with nor intimidate our family pets or farm animals; or it will be put down, immediately.

The following is a list of what is expected of you (and family) while in our home:

• Children must be under your control at all times. Temper tantrums & arguments must be nipped in the bud. Bullying, slothful or immoral behavior will not be tolerated.
• Security details including night time manning of OP/LP will be done by every capable person. Learning to shoot and reloading and cleaning of weapons will be expected of everyone. If needed everyone will be expected to use weapons to defend the home site. The location of our home site must not be shared with anyone without approval of this head of household.
• Hunting for meat, along with skinning and tanning hides for clothing will be done by everyone as assigned.
• Whatever is prepared for the meals will be eaten. No special meal will be provided. If a person doesn’t like what is prepared they don’t eat. No in-between snacks will be allowed. Food will be rationed as needed for each person. Gluttony and obesity will obviously not be happening.

All are expected to take turns and share in daily chores such as:

• Kitchen duty, clean up, prep for meals, preparing of meals, dish washing, laundering of clothing, sheets, towels. (likely to be done by hand in a tub)
• Daily character lessons, Bible study and prayer time for school aged children is mandatory.
• Chopping, hauling wood for wood stove, working in gardens, preparing soil, planting, weeding, watering, harvesting along with processing, canning and drying of food.
• Pet clean up duty - any you bring and others pets and animals on site.
• Clean bathrooms, toilets, tubs and showers, sweep, mop floors.
• All children from age 4 and up are expected to do chores and participate.
• Everyone must get up at the same time in the morning (5:30 am, excluding infants) except for Sunday, the day off. Assigned chores which must still be completed on time.
• Animals (chickens, cows, goats, pigs, turkeys) must be taken care of and fed. Stalls must be cleaned, goats must be milked, etc.

Chores will be rotated to try to be fair to all involved. If a child, teen or adult refuses (or fails) to complete their chores on time, they won’t eat.

Complaining, whining, arguing about rules is not allowed. This head of household makes the final decisions and is the final authority. Anyone can leave at any time, or people may be asked to leave if they do not participate or if they cause problems for those staying here.

This is a very small community yet everyone knows who and what you are. Reputation is everything if you expect more than a wave from your neighbor, for though we should tolerate one another, respect must be earned. In these coming times of great difficulty neighbors must rely upon and trust one another for social sanity and defense. I will not allow my good reputation to be damaged by those I provide for. This means that you will likely be assisting neighbors in their chores as well.

If you do not feel you (or family members) can abide by these rules and social standards, then we cannot help you and suggest you make other plans as there are others hoping to come to our place in times of emergency and space is very limited.

[G-Man]

[Anrol5]

If I read those rules, I would find somewhere else. Your attitude alone would put people off.

IMO, if the things really went wrong, I would need other people, more than they need me. I can’t garden, do laundry, cook meals, take care of the kids, and so on, *and* do guard duty.

It isn’t possible for a single family unit, to do it all. You need a community. And in a community, you have to compromise. You have to give in on some things, (daily bible study) in order to achieve the bigger objectives, enough food to eat, shelter, security,.... I am sure other posters can add more.

There is zero compromise in your rules. Do it my way or else. Well most people will chose the "or else." And you will be left to do the gardening, laundry, meals, make tools,..... *and* do guard duty.

If you are unlucky enough to find people who think like you, they will probably be the ones who make the rules - think home owners associations, with an edge. And they will probably have the same attitude as you, "you don’t like our rules, get out". And it will be good bye spinnaker.

What is needed in a crisis is strong leadership, with enforcement of rules, done with compassion. Finding a leader with that kind of balanced personality is next to impossible.

Anrol

PS IMO, from watching various reality TV shows, the most successful enforced communities, are the ones, who during start-up have a daily meeting of all members, first thing in the morning, to work out what the priorities are that day. And who does what, when. Then you eat breakfast. Long-term / longer term planning, next week, next month, 3 months away..... is done in meetings after supper at night.

[4bears]

A post from pre Y2K that included: 'I don't hold grudges, but I do believe in caning.'



.

[FREEBIRD]

Spinnaker---

No need to be embarrassed by the behavior of others. I have the same situation with some of the adult children.

I think the financial-related remarks of previous commenters here are valid. On the Bible-study thing, I do not think you can/should make it mandatory, but you should, IMO, make it crystal-clear that everyone in the house is invited, and that disruption of the study is unacceptable.

Lots of good points in alpha's post.

This is great food for thought.

Edited to add: The world may be coming to an end sooner than anyone thinks, because anrol and I agree on something, lol.

[johnnymac]

Spin,

Rules are wishful thinking unless you have leverage. You own the house everyone lives in (not you AND your mother, for instance). You have food for all stored. You have cash (if still used as others point out). You have the guns and the ability to use them. You have the ability and means to produce more food and tradeable goods. You have the skills.

If the others come with no resources or skills and are completely dependent upon you to provide them and they have no other place to go, then you hold the cards. For now.

To make the rules, you have to have the leverage over others to make them understand, "Its my way or the highway".

But, that group sounds way to contankerous to me. I don't believe in turning away family, but there is always a chance that one or more will join together, sway mom and put you in the yard.

[Zulu Cowboy]

Here's a prediction...if/when the poo truly hits the fan, you and your mother will actually NEED your brothers hunkering down with you. Even the socialist one...
Your best bet is to convince them, to start preparing now...so you can ALL have a better chance of surviving, what's coming.
And who knows...it may actually help bring you closer together?
Now is not the time to rehash old family grudges.
Now is the time to pull together as a family, BEFORE the wolf is at the door.
You sound like you're the leader of the family now...and if it ends up being just you, who is doing all the pulling. Rest assured that your efforts will not be in vain.
My advice? I would go easy on the (Period. New Paragraph) thing...Force is never your best option.
Zulu Cowboy

[G-Man]

sounds like spinnaker is already lving with Mom and controlling her money - maybe he feels threatened other siblings may need the same hand out -

[Cjoi]

Have you considered helping Mom to establish a trust?

[Old Gray Mare]

If you let the grass hoppers into your home do you really believe they will turn into ants because of your rules? After the food is gone and the garden is empty how long will they stay on to "work"?

[G-Man]

Today, 08:25 AM
Old Gray Mare Old Gray Mare is online now
Veteran Member

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of north pole
Posts: 1,512
If you let the grass hoppers into your home do you really believe they will turn into ants because of your rules? After the food is gone and the garden is empty how long will they stay on to "work"?
Reply With Quote

think the house belongs to his mother he is just living there ......

[BlueNewton]

Originally Posted by Anrol5

If I read those rules, I would find somewhere else. Your attitude alone would put people off.

IMO, if the things really went wrong, I would need other people, more than they need me. I can’t garden, do laundry, cook meals, take care of the kids, and so on, *and* do guard duty.

It isn’t possible for a single family unit, to do it all. You need a community. And in a community, you have to compromise. You have to give in on some things, (daily bible study) in order to achieve the bigger objectives, enough food to eat, shelter, security,.... I am sure other posters can add more.

There is zero compromise in your rules. Do it my way or else. Well most people will chose the "or else." And you will be left to do the gardening, laundry, meals, make tools,..... *and* do guard duty.

If you are unlucky enough to find people who think like you, they will probably be the ones who make the rules - think home owners associations, with an edge. And they will probably have the same attitude as you, "you don’t like our rules, get out". And it will be good bye spinnaker.

What is needed in a crisis is strong leadership, with enforcement of rules, done with compassion. Finding a leader with that kind of balanced personality is next to impossible.

Anrol

PS IMO, from watching various reality TV shows, the most successful enforced communities, are the ones, who during start-up have a daily meeting of all members, first thing in the morning, to work out what the priorities are that day. And who does what, when. Then you eat breakfast. Long-term / longer term planning, next week, next month, 3 months away..... is done in meetings after supper at night.

We would get along fine.

[G-Man]

One more rule.

#7 When doing chores around the house you will be very hot in summer without being allowed, at least in public, to wipe the sweat from your brow with a handkerchief; you will only be allowed to turn the drops aside with your finger to keep them from rolliing into your eyes and impeding your vision...... You will never be allowed to lean against the wall when sitting down, no matter how tired you may be.......

[Meemur]

Alpha, you beat me -- I was going to post Navajo's letter to his extended family.

Agree with whomever said that the OP's family are basically grasshoppers and will cause larger problems than they may help prevent.

While some families can work together (Summerthyme's seems to be a good example), many cannot. End of story.

I agree that for most, it's foolish to go it alone, but an unstable household can attrach attention and get one killed faster than a savvy single who has gone to ground and is basically invisible (barring being sidelined by flu or a bullet).

I don't have any answers; I just know that there are certain people that I wouldn't allow to move in with me under any circumstances.

[Dux]

Originally Posted by johnnymac

Spin,
... there is always a chance that one or more will join together, sway mom and put you in the yard.

Probably wouldn't take much for mom. I had a mom like that. I had a brother much like you, except he used the money for his own purposes. My interpretation was that he STOLE the money, not borrowed it (no IOU note's, no payback plan, no interest payable, not even a sum of the amounts taken before I started auditing). Anyway mom would agree with me when I was with her, and agree with him when he was with her.

[BlueNewton]

You WILL study the bible while staying with us out of dire need. If you won't, I will throw you out on the street--in a very loving, Christlike way, of course.

Alpha, you really would want folks bringing that much crap to your house? Would you rent a storage unit for each person? I would tell anyone staying to bring the minimum and we would have to make do. Regardless, anyone with rules like that is a control freak, without question. And I make a point of staying away from control freaks. Another reason to be a good prepper.

[newpatriot]

Sad to see some folks eager to use a crisis to shove their particular religious beliefs down the throats of relatives who may need their help or want to band together for mutual support. Personally, I'd rather live in a tent in shantytown than live under those rules, but more power to you if you can bully people to Christ.

[spinnaker]

Originally Posted by G-Man

sounds like spinnaker is already lving with Mom and controlling her money - maybe he feels threatened other siblings may need the same hand out -

Incorrect. Just nearby, and have seen the problem before.

[spinnaker]

Thank you all.

[BlueNewton]

Well, back to your specific question, Spinnaker. Enforcement of any rules will be next to impossible. If folks are in a dire situation, you telling them to get out will have no effect. If you tell them they don't get food, they will steal it.They will stay until you physically throw them out or kill them, if the circumstances are bad enough. So, forget a book of rules. Only band together with like-minded folks who don't need the rulebook in the first place. Be open-minded and compassionate and keep the goal of banding together for the greater good in mind at all times. Otherwise, you really will risk being tossed out on your ear or worse. Note the Thanksgiving day killing of family members on Main. We are going to see more of that.

[Milk-maid]

No one has mentioned number 6; No discussion of politics when family is gathered.

What? Why would you close off all avenues to discuss what is happening and help them learn from it? If this was truly a SHTF scenario and everyone has come back home, this is the best time to teach them.

Just my 2 cents

[Volleyball Granny]

Rule #1: I'm the boss.
Rule #2: If you have anything to say, see Rule #1.

Seriously, if the money is still coming in (and usable), you can't make someone give ALL their money. You'd be nickel and dimed to death for chewing gum and shampoo. A percentage--straight across the board for everyone to put into the house kitty is fair. The way you want to set it up, you could force your brothers to pay the monthlies while you sit on yours and your mom's money. Not right.

I guess you could determine a dollar value of your preps and then begin contributing your share to the household when that dollar value (percentage-wise) has been matched by your brothers, but that's a difficult bookkeeping job.

I would say for everyone to bring whatever they have, keep a little back for themselves, and put the rest in the pot. Even on a small scale, socialism doesn't work very long.

[MamaDel]

Without seeing the original post I can only sat that my feeling is, in a truly DIRE scenario. Family politics will fall in behind having basic needs met. If there is ANY food and a way to be sheltered...extra hands to divide duties(care of children and guarding of the shelter while another leaves to seek food, water, etc)..I think many people will fall in line. In a situation that would require this kind of emergency coming together, not many would choose to go it alone, and those that do should be sent on their way without grief. The problem is almost no one will act as you think...sometimes including ourselves.

MamaDel

[G-Man]

Today, 02:09 AM
spinnaker spinnaker is online now
Blue Water Cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Gone on a long vacation.
Posts: 325
Need ideas for a 'Family Book of Rules' once SHTF
removed by original poster to avoid the grief.
Last edited by spinnaker; Today at 10:17 AM.

Hey come on - I did that and had my editing privileges taken away - I still can not "EDIT" a post once it is posted......

MOD ALERT

[medic38572]

Dear Friend,

Since you, having done nothing to prepare for hard times, have stated that in case of an emergency you (and family) will be coming to my home to be sheltered, the following is a list of what you are required to bring with you and what is expected of you (and your family members).

You must bring:

• Sleeping bag, pillow, and blankets (for you will be sleeping on the floor), towels as we don’t have enough for our family and yours.
• All food stuffs, canned goods, dry goods, spices, seeds to help feed your family - enough for one year.
• Cash, gold, silver, jewelry -- may be used to help pay your way once here and will be used as needed for supplies.
• Clothing for winter and summer, along with hats, gloves, coats, rain gear extra boots, shoes for each person.
• Laundry soap, bath soap, shampoo.
• All camping gear, tents, tarps, stoves, cookware, etc.
• Any weapons, ammo, reloading components and dies for all calibers with a preference for military calibers.
• Diapers, extra clothing, formula, etc for any infants.
• All medicines, prescription and over the counter medications, first aid kit for your family.
• School books and lesson plans for school aged children.
• Extra cans of gasoline, propane, diesel, flashlights, solar panels, batteries.
• Pet food -- if you bring a pet and pet carrier, the pets must not interfere with nor intimidate our family pets or farm animals; or it will be put down, immediately.

The following is a list of what is expected of you (and family) while in our home:

• Children must be under your control at all times. Temper tantrums & arguments must be nipped in the bud. Bullying, slothful or immoral behavior will not be tolerated.
• Security details including night time manning of OP/LP will be done by every capable person. Learning to shoot and reloading and cleaning of weapons will be expected of everyone. If needed everyone will be expected to use weapons to defend the home site. The location of our home site must not be shared with anyone without approval of this head of household.
• Hunting for meat, along with skinning and tanning hides for clothing will be done by everyone as assigned.
• Whatever is prepared for the meals will be eaten. No special meal will be provided. If a person doesn’t like what is prepared they don’t eat. No in-between snacks will be allowed. Food will be rationed as needed for each person. Gluttony and obesity will obviously not be happening.

All are expected to take turns and share in daily chores such as:

• Kitchen duty, clean up, prep for meals, preparing of meals, dish washing, laundering of clothing, sheets, towels. (likely to be done by hand in a tub)
• Daily character lessons, Bible study and prayer time for school aged children is mandatory.
• Chopping, hauling wood for wood stove, working in gardens, preparing soil, planting, weeding, watering, harvesting along with processing, canning and drying of food.
• Pet clean up duty - any you bring and others pets and animals on site.
• Clean bathrooms, toilets, tubs and showers, sweep, mop floors.
• All children from age 4 and up are expected to do chores and participate.
• Everyone must get up at the same time in the morning (5:30 am, excluding infants) except for Sunday, the day off. Assigned chores which must still be completed on time.
• Animals (chickens, cows, goats, pigs, turkeys) must be taken care of and fed. Stalls must be cleaned, goats must be milked, etc.

Chores will be rotated to try to be fair to all involved. If a child, teen or adult refuses (or fails) to complete their chores on time, they won’t eat.

Complaining, whining, arguing about rules is not allowed. This head of household makes the final decisions and is the final authority. Anyone can leave at any time, or people may be asked to leave if they do not participate or if they cause problems for those staying here.

This is a very small community yet everyone knows who and what you are. Reputation is everything if you expect more than a wave from your neighbor, for though we should tolerate one another, respect must be earned. In these coming times of great difficulty neighbors must rely upon and trust one another for social sanity and defense. I will not allow my good reputation to be damaged by those I provide for. This means that you will likely be assisting neighbors in their chores as well.

If you do not feel you (or family members) can abide by these rules and social standards, then we cannot help you and suggest you make other plans as there are others hoping to come to our place in times of emergency and space is very limited.

Nothing at all wrong with these rules.

Especially when you have planned, warned, prepped and even tried to help others prepare. Who have in turn laughed, shrugged it all off and all but called you crazy.

One biblical verse comes to mind...

1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

[Anrol5]

A few things I noticed about people's rules.
First, Sundays off. If you are in a survival situation, you need to work every day. When people were serfs toiling from dawn to dusk for the Lord of the Manor, serfs got Sundays off so they could work for their other master - the church. They had to attend 3 services a day. Sundays was when they made/repaired tools, dug their garden to provide them with extra food, repaired their miserable hovels, etc.. If anything they worked harder on Sundays, than they did on the other 6 days.

The second thing is food
I noticed the rules posted by anyone, is every one says, there will be 3 meals a day. If you are doing heavy physical work, then you really need to eat 5 plus meals a day. 3 big meals - breakfast, lunch and dinner, plus 2 substantial snacks at mid morning, and mid afternoon.

There may be so little food, that all there is a small bowl of watery porridge for breakfast, a thin bowl of vegetable soup for lunch, and a small helping of watered down stew plus a slice of bread for dinner. Which brings me to

Where is the fun?
If anyone watched the original series of survivors, they discovered, that if day after day, all you have to look forward to is massive amounts of work, and little food, morale crashes. People need to have fun, and there is zero fun in anyone's rules. After a few months everyone was so demoralised, they stopped working. If they got sick they died. There was no point in living.

At this point the leaders of the survivors, threw caution to the wind, and had a party. They had a massive dinner, drink, music, fun.

There is a reason the early church, took over the pagan festivals. These pagan festivals were spaced roughly 3 months apart, and they gave those ground down by back breaking labour, something to look forward too. The Autumn Equinox became Harvest Festival. Winter Solstice - Christmas. And Beltane - Easter

The early church didn’t take over the festival at the summer solstice, probably because that occurred during the Hunger Gap and there was no food.

Lent is another pagan idea, to conserve food stocks, before the early first harvests of produce from your garden.

The main festivals were 3 day events. One day to prepare. One day of eating till one was sick, drinking to excess, music, singing, dancing, staying up late, and so on. And one day sleeping off your hangover. These festivals served two purposes. One to give people fun, which everyone needs. And two, it bound the community together.

Also communities threw big parties, to which everyone was invited for naming ceremonies (births), weddings, and funerals (wakes).

These parties were important, and should be budgeted for. People can’t work all the time.

Just my two penceworth

Anrol

[G-Man]

Today, 10:15 AM
spinnaker spinnaker is offline
Blue Water Cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Gone on a long vacation.
Posts: 325

Incorrect. Just nearby, and have seen the problem before.

well that's a relief - now could you just put the original thread back??? .....

[BlueNewton]

Originally Posted by medic38572

Nothing at all wrong with these rules.

Especially when you have planned, warned, prepped and even tried to help others prepare. Who have in turn laughed, shrugged it all off and all but called you crazy.

Good punishment for them and showing them who's smarter then, so you can have the last laugh, if that is your objective. But a viable living situation? With no mutual respect, tremendous animosity, anger, and resentment? No chance.

[fruit loop]

If people are minors (and, depending on their age, I still think they should get some voice in the household matters), or are contributing nothing - then yeah, you can run a BIT of a dictatorship. I say a BIT because running roughshod over every detail of their lives is NOT warranted or justified on the part of the homeowner.

If each person is an equally contributing member - then no. They get a vote and a voice. You don't dictate every detail of their lives like an OCD Nazi.

The kind of situation - you and your kids participate in my church, you turn over all your money and valuables, you all do work but have no say in how any of this is done - you live by all my rules and don't question - THAT IS A CULT. I'd run away as fast I could and take my chances on the street.

Too much potential for the homeowner to become an abusive, swaggering little Nazi even if that is not their intent. Power corrupts...and power added to fear and paranoia is worse.

[medic38572]

Originally Posted by fruit loop

If people are minors (and, depending on their age, I still think they should get some voice in the household matters), or are contributing nothing - then yeah, you can run a BIT of a dictatorship. I say a BIT because running roughshod over every detail of their lives is NOT warranted or justified on the part of the homeowner.

If each person is an equally contributing member - then no. They get a vote and a voice. You don't dictate every detail of their lives like an OCD Nazi.

The kind of situation - you and your kids participate in my church, you turn over all your money and valuables, you all do work but have no say in how any of this is done - you live by all my rules and don't question - THAT IS A CULT. I'd run away as fast I could and take my chances on the street.

Too much potential for the homeowner to become an abusive, swaggering little Nazi even if that is not their intent. Power corrupts...and power added to fear and paranoia is worse.

I agree that's why I would take care of me, my own, That's my responsibility.

[johnnymac]

Where is the fun?
If anyone watched the original series of survivors, they discovered, that if day after day, all you have to look forward to is massive amounts of work, and little food, morale crashes. People need to have fun, and there is zero fun in anyone's rules. After a few months everyone was so demoralised, they stopped working. If they got sick they died. There was no point in living.

At this point the leaders of the survivors, threw caution to the wind, and had a party. They had a massive dinner, drink, music, fun.

Umm, that is a television show which is in a controlled environment. Notice that none of the women have hairy pits or legs? And that many of the contestants are pleasing to the eye? Some real situations would be handy to have and add some gravity to your arguments.


There is a reason the early church, took over the pagan festivals. These pagan festivals were spaced roughly 3 months apart, and they gave those ground down by back breaking labo
ur, something to look forward too. The Autumn Equinox became Harvest Festival. Winter Solstice - Christmas. And Beltane - Easter

The early church didn’t take over the festival at the summer solstice, probably because that occurred during the Hunger Gap and there was no food.

Lent is another pagan idea, to conserve food stocks, before the early first harvests of produce from your garden... etc..

Please read the Old Testament namely the books between Exodus and Joshua. A number of festivals were not pagan in nature but were actually handed down by God as part of a calendar for the Jews to remember and celebrate the gifts God had given them. They included feasts for harvest, planting and changes in the seasons. This is not to say that some feast days were not adapted from earlier local traditions in some regions. But many traditions go back thousands of years before Nothern European traditions and have their roots in middle eastern custom.

Back to the subject at hand.

If such a calamity were to befall the US, the need for fun would take a backseat for the first months and years to finding food, clean water and staying alive. Fun might be as simple as playing a board game one night or listening to an adult read a book aloud. Fun would not go for days but for a few hours at most and that is after all else was done and stable long enough for some "down time".

Of course, much of this would be for the children only. Adults, in our society long addled by 500+ TV channels, constant chat and video on the internet and a need to compete with children on video games, would have to grow up in short order and get their jollies after the work is done.

[summerthyme]

Interesting thread. Seems to have drifted quite a bit from the original question... and I guess I'll contribute to that drift.

We're farmers. Not precisely "subsistence" farmers, but we've worked 12-16 hours a day, 7 days a week, for as long as we've owned our own farm- 31 years last July.

We're very familiar with back breaking work, long, hard hours, working in heat, cold, rain, snow and through flu, broken bones and other problems. (hubby is currently hobbling around on crutches with a knee brace, doing whatever jobs he can handle so I can keep up with the milking without falling completely apart physically. We're getting too danged old for this).

When the kids were younger, we had FUN. We'd sneak a half hour break after lunch in a haying afternoon for a quick dip in the farm pond (usually while waiting for the hay to finish drying down). We've had wood stacking contests, and there was always enough time (well, we'd MAKE the time) to identify a strange butterfly or caterpillar, check out some animal tracks, or watch a pair of circling hawks hunting.

The kids- all grown now- still joke that "family togetherness time" happened most often when hubby or I would dash in from the barn, announce that we "had feet" (a calving cow was finally to a stage where help was needed).. and whoever was handy would all dress quickly and run out to help.

We picked wild berries, made cider and jam, built and repaired machinery... all with various family combinations helping as needed.

Sure, we heard some complaints about "slave labor" from the teens, but oddly enough- or not- they all voluntarily come back to the farm to help us with big seasonal chores, like hauling wood, or building on some big job.

Family is so important, but almost no one will get along with everyone in their family. Minor differences can be either ignored or worked out (I have one DIL who is extremely liberal and who loves Hitlery and the Obamination. We just don't discuss it- at this point, no one will change their minds, and it doesn't have anything to do with making applesauce or weeding the garden, anyway). Some, of course, have issues which are more serious than that.

I have one brother, and he will NOT be welcome here, if TSHTF. It's a matter of survival- he's a "gun nut" (in a way that gives all other shooting enthusiasts and even survivalists a bad name), a compulsive paranoid with a serious narcissistic personality disorder, and he believes rules only apply to other people. He also has literally NO skills aside from his shooting skills. I can easily envision him alienating every one of our neighbors as well as crucial parts of whatever societal structure survives, very possibly to the point of causing huge problems. Oh, and he's lazy to the point that even now, living with my 84 year old mother- who is pretty much raising his young child, because his wife (who he lives apart from) is even worse than him- he does NO work. Mom does everything- yard work, lawn mowing, etc. Since she's getting increasingly frail, that means she pays someone else to do most of it now- out of her pocket.

Even if he was the only "family" we had and we needed someone to help with all the necessary work, including guard duty- I couldn't afford the risk of having him as part of the team.

So... everyone has to evaluate every relationship they have. As Meemur said, as undesirable as trying to go it alone is, it could be better than having a bunch of contentious, rebellious, lazy folks endangering you with their issues.

On the "three meals a day" idea- I understand the concept behind the thought, although I agree that having nutritious, "high value" snacks around for a coffee break in mid morning and mid afternoon may be necessary to keep people going. The idea, though, is sound- ONE person needs to be the quartermaster, as it were- in "control" of supplies, and that means knowing the full inventory, planning what needs to be rationed, what needs replenishing (if possible), and keeping things "fair". Folks in this society have been so used to "have it your way!" for so long, that many mothers are essentially acting as short order cooks every day. In a survival situation, it's vital that everyone eats the same foods, and that portions are shared out according to physical needs, not "likes" and "wants". It would sound hilariously funny to anyone from the pioneering 1800's era that we'd even have to state that- they wouldn't imagine any other way of doing things.

Bible study mandatory... I dunno. Our own personal faith is both deep, and deeply personal. If there are youngsters in the family, or "young" Christians, Bible study is important. But it needs to be part of the general spiritual life, not used as a way to keep people in line- and yes, too often, that's exactly how it's used. If some members of the team aren't Christians, you're unlikely to convert them by browbeating them and repeating Bible passages AT them. If your own Christian life isn't enough of an example for them to wonder why things don't make you fall apart no matter what- nothing you SAY is going to help.

Money division/issues? If TS really DOES HTF, what "money" are you talking about? Social security, etc? Ha! Anyone holding back personal funds from a communal living arrangement in a SHTF situation (not talking about something local and temporary like Katrina) in the hope that they'll be set up "after things improve" is delusional. Anyone holding back funds in that situation where there are physical needs and products still available is sabotaging the potential for everyone to survive. If that's explained to them, and they still believe it's "their money"... they're best allowed to withdraw from the group and take their resources to use as they wish for the own survival- or not.

I DO like the list Alpha posted. I don't see it as "people bringing all that crap" along.. I see it as everyone providing as many necessary supplies as possible, for their own survival and comfort. In our own situation, I've worked hard to have as much of the household goods (blankets, toiletries, etc) on hand for as many family members as we expect might end up here. So my own "letter to family" has concentrated on telling them to bring all the Rx and OTC meds they might want/need (again, I've prepped a lot of that, but some may have personal needs), plenty of SHOES and BOOTS and warm outerwear, birth control, etc... with any food items, etc as they can fit in their vehicle.

For a communal living arrangement to survive past the first, critical days (which probably will be, as crazy as it sounds, the EASY part; mostly because everyone will be focused on survival) it's going to be important to have a combination of immutable rules and a lot of flexibility. Providing privacy for married couples is going to be important. Staying out of personal disagreements between married couples, or parents and children, is important- UNLESS it reaches a degree which threatens the stability of the community. It is best if parents are the ones to enforce the rules on their own children, but a strong leader (preferably either the owner of the bugout/bugin location, or an older family member with excellent diplomatic skills) may have to step in and insist on some kids following the rules, especially if their families have been the stupidly permissive type.

Thinking ahead about all of this NOW is vital. We've got some practice, which certainly helps- when several of our grown kids/spouses are visiting (usually with some project in mind- "sitting around watching videos" hasn't ever been a popular pasttime here, except for an occasional family movie night), they automatically ask "what's on the list" for today. Hubby and I have our own "to-do" lists, which we consult the other on... mine usually involves the household chores, gardens, harvesting wild foods and herbs, vet work on animals, etc. Hubby's involves the farm, machinery, field work. We talk over our plans for the day and week, and work it out so we're available to help the other with projects where it's needed. For example, I may rake hay in the morning, and hubby will plan on taking an hour after lunch to help run a couple bushels of tomatoes through the strainer. Then I finish canning tomato sauce, while he bales hay. With extra people here, we just expand on that process. It works.

As far as a basic "Family Book of Rules".. the 10 Commandments and the Golden Rule should pretty well cover it.

Summerthyme

[bobpick]

Originally Posted by spinnaker

removed by original poster to avoid the grief.

My humble opinion is that you need rules in a crisis situation. The human psyche thrives on order, even a small part. This list is in part a contract, and everybody knows where they stand.

BTW, I have the same list!

[fruit loop]

I really like the part about putting other people's pets down.

How will this be done? Shoot it? Cut its throat?

Will the homeowner do it, or force the pet owner to butcher their beloved furkid at gunpoint just for grins? Maybe in front of their crying children, to highten the entertainment?

How will you deal with the resulting grief, distrust, and resentment from the young ones? And the adults? I hope you like dealing with the nightmares the wee ones will have, wondering if Grandma or Grandpa will shoot them, or their mom and dad, too.

I agree about other people's pets being nuisances...but this is a bad way to handle it.