TRANS Shopping For A Compact 4WD SUV - What's to Like and Dislike?

[Red Baron]

Our teenage daughter is in the market for a vehicle and we are leaning towards a pre-owned small SUV in the $10,000 or less price range.

We want something reliable, safe and able to negotiate Wisconsin winters. She'll be going to college in a year and like the room available in a SUV.

Daughter really likes the Jeep Liberty but is receptive to other models. We have already looked at the Ford Escape, KIA Sportage and the Hyundai.

I'm finding the Honda and Toyota to be overpriced and with too high of mileage. Looking for something with 50,000 to 60,000 miles. Any remaining warranty would be nice.

What is a great deal right now and what should we absolutely avoid?

I would prefer first hand experience or very informed knowledge from those of you who sell these vehicles.

Car-Max was -way- overpriced IMHO.

I have sold new and used cars in the past (Honda, Nissan and Suzuki) and appreciate that used cars have a high markup versus new cars. "Sticker" price on any car is usually a complete sucker punch. I'm ready to go around and around with these guys. I haven't bought a pre-owned vehicle in a long time and look forward to those of you who recently have.

[Rescuedog]

I'd research on www.edmunds.com

RD

[Red Baron]

Originally Posted by Rescuedog

I'd research on www.edmunds.com

RD

Done that, great resource. I'm looking for some real time user feedback.

[sunflowerstation]

I have a Buick Rendevous. All wheel drive. lots of room in the back for storage. I have been extremely happy with this car. will drive it till it drops dead.

Sunny

[miracleaud]

Over 140K and still going strong with no problems. We love this car!

[Red Baron]

Originally Posted by miracleaud

Over 140K and still going strong with no problems. We love this car!

Is the warranty transferable to a new owner?

[homepark]

Honda Element. I love it. All wheel drive and still average about 25mpg.

[vessie]

My husband and I are in the car bid'ness and my favorite of all time small SUV is the Honda CR-V! Love it love it love it! They are built to last. And it just about sips gas too and you can haul alot of crap in the back. May look small on the outside but it's big on the inside and it drives great in the snow for me!

Now what you can do for fun and to keep the 'bunny squeezers' (aka tree huggers) off your a$$ and to have a little fun is to put a hybrid emblem on it .

You would not believe how stupid some of the liberal people in Seattle area are (especially the college age liberal set, they must have been raised in a mushroom farming cave. Sheeesh!). They actually believe a 'certain someone's' H2 is a hybrid because 'someone' put a GMC hybrid sticker on the back of the thing.

My friend who has an original Hummer which is a huge black beast recieved for her B-day not only a hybrid emblem but also a bio-diesel sticker too! Work's like a charm and it's alot of fun when grown men think it's actually a retooled H. *tee-hee* V

[Warthog]

Ford Escape
Toyota Rav 4
Honda CRV
Toyota 4 Runner
That's my top four. I own 2 of them.

[juco]

I've got a 2002 jeep Liberty and I am very happy with it, even with having to drop a new tranny in it last month. It's a tough little truck, very well made and perfect for the rural area we live in. Gets about 22 miles to the gallon. I can even squeeze 4 bales of hay in the back with the seat down if they're loaded right!

[duchess47]

I have a 1999 Kia Sportage 4X4 which I love. I cart things like recliners or 6 dining room chairs in the back. It has 134,000 miles and still runs like a top. We just had it out four wheeling last weekend and it goes just about anywhere my 1987 Suzuki would go.

Having said that, I detest Kia dealerships, parts are expensive, and the design of the four wheel drive is strange. A crucial plastic tube (?) drys out here with the lack of humidity and has had to be replaced twice.

[FarmerJohn]

Subarus are great but they eventually start leaking oil onto the exhaust manifolds and stink a bit. I've heard that the Jeep Liberty is/was available with a diesel engine that make's it more attractive to those who appreciate that kind of thing.

I don't own either myself.

FJ

[lectrickitty]

It's going to sound crazy, but you might consider getting her a used Lincoln Towncar. Mine is a 94 that only cost me $2500. a few years back. They are usually pretty pricey, but you can find good deals if you're patient. It gets 25 mpg, can haul a ton of stuff in it's huge trunk, and is built like a tank so is about as safe a vehicle as you can be in if involved in an accident. Mine has 180,000 miles and still runs like new. This is the 4th one I've owned and I love them. They are comfortable, safe, roomy, and cheap on ins.

[NBCsurvivor]

Originally Posted by Warthog

Ford Escape
Toyota Rav 4
Honda CRV
Toyota 4 Runner
That's my top four. I own 2 of them.

+1000

Toyota and Honda are just getting broke in at 100,000 miles. You can get that nifty warranty that they advertise on TV if it's under 15 years old. Can't remember the name right off the top of my head.

[KenGin31]

The jeep is a ticking fire bomb. Uless you install a trailer hitch to protect the fuel tank.

[Kent]

Toyota 4 Runner

[ARMY RANGER]

I just bought a Sante Fe for my daughter.Its a 2007 with 20,000 on it for 19,500.It is loaded with every option including heated leather seats.I have driven just about every vehicle ever made and this thing is great.So tight and handles great,very smooth.Here is the kicker,It has a 100,000 miles bumper to bumper warranty.Not just powertrain but bumper to bumper.Free roadside service etc.. She loves it as do I so now I do not have to worry so much about her in bad weather.Try getting one thats a couple of years older,you will not be disappointed.

[Watchingbear]

Hate to say this, but I bought a Subaru a few years ago. First time I have ever bought a foreign car, and I was guilt ridden for months. But...Not a single problem so far with 60K miles on it. Unbelievable handling in winter weather. Best car I have ever bought. I track milage and am getting 27 mpg, but a lot of this is highway. If you have guilt problems as I do, the outback is made in Indiana.

[Camasjune]

Subaru is the absolute best vehicle for driving snow and ice. You can plow snow with the front bumper. After years of being a Jeep and Willys owner, I even prefer the Subaru for off-roading.

The only thing bad I can say about Subaru is the seat is not comfortable for long distance driving, but all the Japanese cars are that way.

[Publius]

Have you considered the jeep cherokee? If you're wanting a SUV that really go's in the snow & mud. That would be my pick in the SUV category and My self would have to order it before production started to get it the way I want it and they do come with three pedals on the floor but you have to ask for to be built that way.

[SurvivalRing]

Originally Posted by lectrickitty

It's going to sound crazy, but you might consider getting her a used Lincoln Towncar. Mine is a 94 that only cost me $2500. a few years back. They are usually pretty pricey, but you can find good deals if you're patient. It gets 25 mpg, can haul a ton of stuff in it's huge trunk, and is built like a tank so is about as safe a vehicle as you can be in if involved in an accident. Mine has 180,000 miles and still runs like new. This is the 4th one I've owned and I love them. They are comfortable, safe, roomy, and cheap on ins.

Ditto on the Town Car. I've got a 92 that I paid $1200 for in 2003. Only big problems are the clearcoat has really flaked off badly, the air suspension blew a bag so I replaced with limo variable rate springs for $98 at NAPA, and replaced the head gaskets in 2004. NOTHING else. It just keeps running. Most comfortable car I've ever had. Cross country trip pulling a closed trailer last year, and the Town Car acted like it wasn't even back there.

Recommend it for a GOOD vehicle by virtue of capacity, speed, load handling, and class. There are LOTS of them still on the road, even in rural towns like mine in centraly Wyoming. Doesn't draw attention like big 4x4 trucks and shiny SUVs do.

[SurvivalRing]

As for 4x4s and such, I'd like to throw in a vote for the Nissan Xterra. It's 4wd, seats 4 comfortably and has a very good cargo capacity, as well as major roof rack system better than most other SUVs, can haul 5000 pounds with a class 3 hitch, has a bulletproof 3.3l V6, and can get 24mpg at highway speed with no trailer.

I did a lot of research this summer before buying my 2000 SE in late August, and I've been VERY happy with it. I've got the larger 265 series tires, and that extra meat really makes a difference in handling, traction, and ride.

On snow and ice ( we got 20 inches of snow here in October for the whole month ) it did great in 4wd mode. Off road it's been able to handle anything I've thrown at it. On the highway its actually more comfortable than the 2003 Dodge RAM 1500 4x4 crewcab shortbed that was my OTHER potential ride, before going with the Xterra.

As for maintenance, downtime, major repairs, and quality worksmanship, a big part of my research was comparing these data bits between a half dozen vehicle choices. The X led the pack as far as NOT having major problems.

I'd recommend at least taking one for a drive before final purchase decision.

An 2000 model can go between $5k to $10k, with mileage normally between 50 and 100k miles. Newer models can push your outlay to $15 to $25k, but you get the warranty and lower mileage edge.

Good luck in your search...

[Red Baron]

Good tips folks, keep 'em coming.

Negotiating price should be a hoot.

Saturday was a beautiful day here and it was -amazing- how few people were at the dealerships. Also the used car inventories seemed rather low.

Lot's of empty space on the car lots, regardless of brand.

[Warthog]

Originally Posted by lectrickitty

It's going to sound crazy, but you might consider getting her a used Lincoln Towncar. Mine is a 94 that only cost me $2500. a few years back. They are usually pretty pricey, but you can find good deals if you're patient. It gets 25 mpg, can haul a ton of stuff in it's huge trunk, and is built like a tank so is about as safe a vehicle as you can be in if involved in an accident. Mine has 180,000 miles and still runs like new. This is the 4th one I've owned and I love them. They are comfortable, safe, roomy, and cheap on ins.

But when the air ride bags go bad, and they do on older Lincolns, you're looking at a big expense for replacement. I have a 1997 4 Runner with a V-6 and 157,000 miles. Still have original alternator, water pump, timing belt, and shocks. The Runner doesn't have struts thank god ,but I'm preparing to change them soon.

[SurvivalRing]

Originally Posted by Warthog

But when the air ride bags go bad, and they do on older Lincolns, you're looking at a big expense for replacement. ...

Warthog,

I mentioned above that I fixed my suspension for under a $100. Took out the air bags, and replaced with limo overload coil springs that NAPA stocks. All told, took just over an hour for replacement.

Several websites on the web that give photo details on just how to do this.

Ride height is exactly the same. And, since you'll be right there if changing them, go ahead and put some good quality gas filled shock absorbers in.

[Mr. Dot]

Subaru Outback

[Jubilee on Earth]

I bought a used Ford Escape and couldn't be happier. The 2007-2008 models are bigger than the older ones (mine's a 2008). Rides well, and the additional traction control on top of the 4x4 is awesome. I live in Michigan, and it does very well in the snow. It's comfortable, sturdy and reliable. Plus it's fun to drive.

Good luck!

[Red Baron]

Originally Posted by Jubilee on Earth

I bought a used Ford Escape and couldn't be happier. The 2007-2008 models are bigger than the older ones (mine's a 2008). Rides well, and the additional traction control on top of the 4x4 is awesome. I live in Michigan, and it does very well in the snow. It's comfortable, sturdy and reliable. Plus it's fun to drive.

Good luck!

If you don't mind, how much was it?

[Hokey]

We rent alot of suv's for my work. Personally, if i was looking for a used "small" suv i would probably go for hyundai, honda or toyota. Mitsubishi or Kia sorrento maybe if the price was right. Don't like the Nissans and the used Subarus around here are pricey (although a very good choice). Jeeps don't have a stellar maintenance rating and the Liberty i rented once, although very nice and lots of power, was hard on gas i thought.

The Toyota 4runner might be too much truck for what is needed and heavier 4 wheel drive vehicles on snowy/icy roads aren't always better (as evidenced every winter where it seems its the SUV's in the ditch).

Given that though, your best used car deal would probably be on the Ford Edge. I think its a decent vehicle for what you pay.

Oh, beware some small suv's have only 2wd as base, and only optional all wheel drive or as a high end. Very few small to mid suv's have true 4 wd and i can't remember which models those were (even if they advertise as 4wd they may just be all wheel drive). Not sure if that's important to you.

[worldman]

Hyundai =+1

Cant go wrong with an older jeep Cherokee in 4.0

If it was me, I would go with a Hyundai at 20K miles.

(I own a Hyundai now and love it)

Take care,

Worldman

[Safetydude]

I personally like Isuzu Troopers (pre 1996) and can be found for under $3K in many on-line sources like cars.com or autotrader.com stay away from "rust belt" states - out west or down south are usually safe from a car cancer standpoint. If I didn't have to contend with regionally mandated ethanol in gasoline, I would expect 18-20 mpg city/highway with a manual transmission), which isn't bad hauling 2 tons of metal down the road. It has more cargo space than a Jeep Cherokee, more capable off-road in stock configuration than any compact 4x4 SUV.

I've had 2 Troopers, both manuals (one a '93 and currently a '96 with 220K on it). I feel much safer with a full frame sitting under me than "unibodies" like the Pathfinder. I drive long distances and it is a comfortable driver and so far has always gotten me home at the end of the day.

YMMV

[Dixielee]

I did a lot of research last year for the same, and it came down to Toyata Rav, Honda CRX and Subaru Forrester. I picked the Forrester for a number of reasons, some I can't even explain. I like the all wheel drive, the explanation and the video at the dealer showed me how the Subaru was superior to the others with respect to the AWD.

It has tons of room, back doors and rear door open very wide for loading dogs and other bulky items. It sits higher than a car, so getting in and out is easy, but doesn't sit high like a truck for those of us with short legs.

Mine gives me a running total of gas milage, so I get about 25/MPG and I am going over fairly steep mountains every day. I am taking it in today for it's 25,000 mile checkup and have had no problems at all with it. It seats 5 comfortably, with still good room for cargo. People are amazed how much room there is in the back seat, legroom and headroom. I love it.

[chromaphase]

Not sure there has been much mentioned about the later model Suzuki Grand Vitara.

All new in '06 and updated a time or two since, they are a nice compact truck with true 4WD capabilities. It's not an off-road poser, the full-time 4WD models have a transfer case with the usual 4WD modes that can be selected at will.

I bought one new in the summer of '06 and drove for nearly 30K pain-free miles. I did have one issue off the lot. When built, the A/C condensation hose was crimped which caused water to run out from underneath the dash onto the passenger floorboard. The warranty took care of this (after my 10 day Canadian vacation with no A/C in the middle of summer) and I had no further issues while owning the truck. Suzuki's warranty is quite long and transferable at last check.

The 2.7L V6 was adequate and torquey once up to steam if albeit a little course. I managed to pull a 5X8 cargo trailer on a couple of east coast trips. As long as you didn't crowd it, even loaded, the rig did just fine at 65 MPH. I averaged 18.5 MPG in the city and nearly 21 MPG on the highway when not pulling the trailer.

Last year, Suzuki went with new 4 and 6 cylinder options on the GV which give you a choice of fuel economy or performance over the earlier 2.7L my truck had.

If you see it as a benefit, the GV's are 100% Japanese made. I was always impressed with the built quality, fit & finish, etc. Suzuki goes with timing chains on their motors as well so your not always chasing a belt replacement like my Montero.

Deals can be easily had on these but be prepared for some carnage on the depreciation if your buying new or close to it. More so than with the other makes like Honda, Toyota, etc. On the flip side, going used here might be a terrific deal especially if you plan to keep it.

I almost regret trading my '06 GV in on a smaller Kia hatchback just for the sake of fuel economy. The GV's are great little trucks. They are fun, well mannered SUV's with a lot of utility that shouldn't be overlooked for at least a test drive.

[Dennis Olson]

Subaru Outback.

[fruit loop]

Nissan XTerra.

Don't buy anything by Jeep. VERY high rollover rates

[Red Baron]

Good comments folks and I'm sure good info for other folks who are also shopping.

I threw out a couple of low ball offers today on an '05 Jeep Liberty ($8,000) and an '05 Jeep Renegade ($10,000). Both with 50,000 - 60,000 miles. Nobody took the bait yet and I am waiting for the inevitable counter offer. Both stickered at $13,500. Research indicates dealers are buying these for $8,000 and likely less.

The little Jeeps seem OK but I did notice rather marginal fuel mileage (21mpg hwy.) with the 3.7L. Also the 3.7L seems to idle rather rough for a V6. Both had a rough wandering idle whether it was hot or cold. The 3.7L does light up the tires though!

'05 Hondas and Toyotas sticker at $17,000+. No way for an out of warranty vehicle.

I have yet to see a Subaru on a lot. People must hang on to those.

Also the used car lots seem rather empty. A couple of salesmen said Cash for Clunkers crushed a lot of SUV's. Could be a "story" also.

I used to sell Honda/Nissan/Suzuki and agree that the Suzukies are a sleeper. District Manager for Suzuki said they are built for Third World road conditions. Drive train and frame is very rugged. Also the Nissans are a rugged truck.

Still looking ....

[Technomancer]

Best thing I've ever seen, ridden in, worked on, etc. Very offroadable even stock, we took it up mountains, rock crawling with a whole group of em.

Toyota Landcruiser.

pre97 is the best, they are still great, but they were more hardcore before then. Its not meant to be a cushy vehicle, but VERY hard and safe, look up videos of em in action. Get one with lockers and you could drive over other cars, and of course easily in snow, deep water,etc.

It was designed to be the Japanese version of the military jeep, it is loved in many areas world wide in hard terrain.

Bumper sticker on lots of em "Jeep recovery vehicle"

[Red Baron]

I had a manager at a "prestigious" Honda dealer counter my $10,000 with $12,500 on a Jeep Liberty stickered at $13,500.

Said the vehicle was on the lot for 70 days and financing, and blah blah blah had already cost him $13,500 and that he was -losing- $1,000 by offering me $12,500.

What a load of bullshit.

He likely paid $6,000 - $8,000 for that trade-in and made a bundle on the new car they sold.

I now have other dealers actually bringing in vehicles from other counties to test drive Tuesday. The Toyota guy that wouldn't do $8,000 already wants me to come back, but didn't make a counter offer.

With those guys I use e-mail. No counter offer, no return visit.

Starting to get fun now!

[MaureenO]

Originally Posted by Red Baron

Our teenage daughter is in the market for a vehicle and we are leaning towards a pre-owned small SUV in the $10,000 or less price range.

We want something reliable, safe and able to negotiate Wisconsin winters. She'll be going to college in a year and like the room available in a SUV.

Daughter really likes the Jeep Liberty but is receptive to other models. We have already looked at the Ford Escape, KIA Sportage and the Hyundai.

I'm finding the Honda and Toyota to be overpriced and with too high of mileage. Looking for something with 50,000 to 60,000 miles. Any remaining warranty would be nice.

What is a great deal right now and what should we absolutely avoid?

I would prefer first hand experience or very informed knowledge from those of you who sell these vehicles.

Car-Max was -way- overpriced IMHO.

I have sold new and used cars in the past (Honda, Nissan and Suzuki) and appreciate that used cars have a high markup versus new cars. "Sticker" price on any car is usually a complete sucker punch. I'm ready to go around and around with these guys. I haven't bought a pre-owned vehicle in a long time and look forward to those of you who recently have.

Jeep Cherokee 4WD any year after 1994. I love mine and it's great in the ice and snow. As a matter of fact it's my second Jeep. My first one was murdered when a eucalyptus tree fell over on it during a storm. So I bought another one.

Mo

[Publius]

Originally Posted by MaureenO

Jeep Cherokee 4WD any year after 1994. I love mine and it's great in the ice and snow. As a matter of fact it's my second Jeep. My first one was murdered when a eucalyptus tree fell over on it during a storm. So I bought another one.

Mo

I have never owned a cherokee but have worked on them and know a large number of people that have them and many claim after owning what competition has to offer and the break downs or have problems getting around in snow & mud, they wont give up their cherokee for nothing. I have seen people take these in stock form in the woods and into rock outcroppings and it handles it well and not to big either but with a four cylinder it would do better on gas, the in-line 6 cylinder that many of them come with is hard to beat and proven reliable.