ECON Clif High On DOW & Gold $125,000 – HYPERINFLATION IS COMING

Yeah, you saw that right; $125K gold. Yeah booiiiiyyyy!!!!!

I looked for a humor prefix but we don't have one or a BS prefix. Considered insanity too.

I don't usually follow SilverD*ctors because of fools like Bo Looney Tunes and others. But I got a spam from them and figured I'd check in and was instantly reminded why I don't frequent their site.

http://www.silverdoctors.com/gold/g...-gold-prices-125000-hyperinflation-is-coming/


Clif High can’t name a price for gold and silver, but his “predictive linguistics” says,
“At some point in 2017, probably past mid-year, we’re going to be looking at hyperinflation so bad that the DOW will be measured around $100,000 to $125,000. Meaning, the dollar will be so worthless that it will take $125,000 to buy the little basket that is the DOW.

I also have language that says an ounce of gold will be approaching the DOW in terms of value. This is not ludicrous. In the last depression in 1933 and 1934, after the shutting of the banks . . . we had a point where gold and the DOW were the same, and gold dominated the DOW for decades.”

Join Greg Hunter as he goes One-on-One with Internet predictive linguistics expert Clif High:

 

Blacknarwhal

Three-Time Trump Voter
When gold hits $125K, look for this to follow.

anBoAX0_700b.jpg
 
I would think they'd screw with devaluation or some kind of currency manipulation before it hit 125 or outlaw it. It wouldn't be just allowed to happen.
 

bassaholic

Veteran Member
The problem is, when gold gets crazy high what to do with it. Who's going to be buying.

A super high value could also make it useless.
 
The problem is, when gold gets crazy high what to do with it. Who's going to be buying.

A super high value could also make it useless.

I've always thought that once it starts reaching above 5K (or whatever number is each holders personal line) many will start selling thus supply goes back up and price goes back down. But that's in a normal world. In this world who knows... go crazy!!! Oops.... slipped into some Prince....
 

Theophilus

Theophilus
The problem is, when gold gets crazy high what to do with it. Who's going to be buying.

A super high value could also make it useless.

"What to do with it?" At that point you could buy the farm down the road that someone is losing. Or maybe a factory, etc. My guess is that we will appreciate silver for smaller purchases. In any event, stuff will certainly be crazy.

May God give us a great measure of wisdom for the days ahead!!
 

bassaholic

Veteran Member
"What to do with it?" At that point you could buy the farm down the road that someone is losing. Or maybe a factory, etc. My guess is that we will appreciate silver for smaller purchases. In any event, stuff will certainly be crazy.

May God give us a great measure of wisdom for the days ahead!!

Yeah but once you get rid of that gold to buy that farm, you are in the same position the farm owner was in.

Well, unless you are super prepped and have left over gold/silver as well. This won't be the majority of people though.

Definitely going to be some great buying opportunities for those well prepared in advance.
 

Bicycle Junkie

Resident dissident and troll
Whenever the price of gold drops, like it is doing now, articles like this appear.

The gold bugs are beginning to panic.
 

marsh

On TB every waking moment
I believe the hyperinflation is most of the cause of the price jump, however, there will be some market adjustment when physical gold cuts away from the highly manipulated paper gold. That is where the "profit" will occur, particularly in silver.
 

Hfcomms

EN66iq
Question. If the value of the dollar crashed 95% in a currency collapse or goes to zero like in Weimer Germany or Zimbabwe what would an ounce of gold cost in U.S. dollars? $125K?? Probably just before it goes no bid. We really don't want to live in that type of a world but it is coming as paper currency always self destructs sooner or later.
 

FireDance

TB Fanatic
And Clif High has been correct how much?

I think you have to look at this as just data reports and not call it prediction. Last report did get Trump wins by landslide and Hillery is missing. Sometimes it works; sometimes not but it's massively interesting. At least to me it is. It's like watching the Internet develop. Interesting in an engineering type of way. The gov does it. I'd like to see their stuff against his. Of course we've given them more money than we have Clif. And can't have access to it. Lol
 

Dozdoats

Deceased
And Clif High has been correct how much?

Enough to make some money calling the direction of the QQQs back when he first started the project. He was working with George Ure back then. Remember George?

It isn't Clif who is right or wrong save in his interpretation of the data. And his approach is good enough to have provoked several official copycat attempts at this point.

If you know how many ounces of gold there are in the world, and how many FRN$ there are in the world at any given time, then you too can do the math and come up with some kind of price for gold per ounce in FRN$.

But if you are wise you will work on calculating the price of a FRN$ in fractions of an ounce of gold. Or silver.
 

China Connection

TB Fanatic
Weimar - crisis of 1923

The 1923 crisis began when Germany missed a reparations payment. This situation spiralled out of control and once again the German people were unhappy and in financial difficulty, so uprisings occurred throughout the country.
Summary

In 1923 the Weimar Republic nearly collapsed. Put the events in the correct order to see how the situation escalated out of control.
Hyperinflation

The sudden flood of paper money into the economy, on top of the general strike - which meant that no goods were manufactured, so there was more money, chasing fewer goods - combined with a weak economy ruined by the war, all resulted in hyperinflation.

Prices ran out of control - eg a loaf of bread, which cost 250 marks in January 1923 had risen to 200,000 million marks in November 1923. German's currency became worthless.
A woman lighting her stove using money


Some people used money as fuel.

There are lots of almost amusing stories about people's wages and examples of just how fast inflation pushed prices up during the crisis:

People collected their wages in suitcases.
One person, who left their suitcase unattended, found that a thief had stolen the suitcase but not the money.
One boy, who was sent to buy two bread buns, stopped to play football and by the time he got to the shop, the price had gone up, so he could only afford to buy one.
One father set out for Berlin to buy a pair of shoes. When he got there, he could only afford a cup of coffee and the bus fare home.

But remember:

Some people made fortunes during the crisis. One man borrowed money to buy a herd of cattle, but soon after paid back his loan by selling one cow.
People on wages were safe, because they renegotiated their wages every day.
Pensioners on fixed incomes and people with savings were the most badly hit. One woman sold her house with the intention of using the money to live on. A few weeks later, the money wasn't even enough to buy a loaf of bread.

Rebellions

Unsurprisingly, the hardships created by hyperinflation led to many uprisings as groups struggled to take power from Weimar.

A nationalist group called Black Reichswehr rebelled in Berlin.
A fascist group called the Nazis attempted a putsch [Putsch: A small revolt against a government. ] in Munich.
Communists took over the governments of Saxony and Thuringia
Communists also took over the Rhineland and declared it independent.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/history/mwh/germany/crisis1923rev_print.shtml
 
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China Connection

TB Fanatic
The thing to get out of this is what the banks are positioning for here in Australia and that is pushing up unfixed home loan interest to 16%


Now if you listen to what is said about half way through the above video. He talks about the banks wanting property not money on their books.


As I say all hell will break loose for those on home loans that are not fixed. It will be the same in the States.
 

Hacker

Computer Hacking Pirate
And Clif High has been correct how much?

His data seems to be correct about twice as often as 'chance' would yield.

On the economic forecasts, the data has been indicating a destruction of the dollar for many years. Yet it is forecast as an 'event', even though it's really been an ongoing process. To this degree, the data is not able to forecast a 'process' - it sees it as an event.
 

Hacker

Computer Hacking Pirate
I watched/listened the interview a few days ago. I remember the number bandied about was $125,000 on the Dow and $125,000 per ounce of gold. But I remember (not sure) that this number was used as an example - and that his real point was that gold (price) would reach parity with the Dow.
 

Meemur

Voice on the Prairie
Oh, yes. I remember George. I also remember Rhea Lady, the smartest one of that lot; I miss her input very much. And I also remember that Clif was also "seeding" several forums.

I have followed his work closely since the beginning, and I no longer have confidence in his "data."

This is total woo and should be in the Unexplained area.
 

Switchback

Veteran Member
Please correct me if I'm wrong, the real value of gold never changes over time. The currency's purchasing power used to purchase it does. Gold is steady, currency fluctuates. Look at what's going on in India right now.
 

marsh

On TB every waking moment
As an INTJ who loves to connect dots, I can see that linguistics off the net is just another set of dots. I always enjoy reading Clif's ALTA reports. Sometimes, it is all in the interpretation - such as "Hilary is missing." It also appears that the future is not static. There have been jumps in time, advancing certain anticipated precious metal/bitcoin market developments. We just had one. I imagine that must be due to a reaction to Trump's win and that TPTB are advancing the collapse.

There is certainly a part of me that wants to know the future so I can anticipate it and position myself advantageously.
 

helen

Panic Sex Lady
Artificial Intelligence software has smoothed economic edges for some time now. This won't happen.
 

etc

Inactive
Yes another one of these. Hyperinflation is coming, buy PMs. Ad infinitum, for the last 25 years.


predicting the end of the economic world one thousand times, what's funny on the 1000 and 1st time they will hit the jackpot..
 

Dozdoats

Deceased
for the last 25 years.

Well, let's review, shall we?

25 years ago was 1991. ONLY 1991 :D

The price of gold in 1991 was about $350-360/ounce. http://www.usagold.com/reference/goldprices/1991.html if you want to see the prices day by day.

That means that a FRN$ in 1991 was worth about 1/355th of an ounce of gold.

25 years later, the POG is $1207. That means that a 2015 FRN$ would cost 1/1207th of an ounce of gold.

Hyperinflation in the last 25 years? No, not really. But in the next ten ... who knows?
 

Hacker

Computer Hacking Pirate
I watched/listened the interview a few days ago. I remember the number bandied about was $125,000 on the Dow and $125,000 per ounce of gold. But I remember (not sure) that this number was used as an example - and that his real point was that gold (price) would reach parity with the Dow.

Around the 28 minute mark, Clif says there's webbot language suggesting a Dow valuation between $100,000 and $125,000. At around the same time the Dow hits this language, his language also suggests an ounce of gold will be worth about $125,000. And then he talks about parity between the gold price and the price on the Dow.
 

L.A.B.

Goodness before greatness.
The problem is, when gold gets crazy high what to do with it. Who's going to be buying.

A super high value could also make it useless.

Buy into a Peanut farm and Peanut Butter processing Co-Opt. If GOLD hits 125 K an ounce. Peanut butter will be $10,000 a 16 oz jar.
 

Dozdoats

Deceased
Gold is FRN$1200/ounce right now. 100 times that would be FRN$120000.

What's 100 times the current price of a jar of peanut butter? :D Or anything else for that matter?

That is of course if you use the POG as a benchmark. There may well be other measures as well, such as the price of silver. I don't profess to know any more than anyone else.
 

jed turtle

a brother in the Lord
Buy into a Peanut farm and Peanut Butter processing Co-Opt. If GOLD hits 125 K an ounce. Peanut butter will be $10,000 a 16 oz jar.

At that price, we can expect cannibalism to surface, rather quickly I suspect, along with mass insanity and total chaos.
 

DannyBoy

Wishing I was Cruising with my Sweetie...
The thing to get out of this is what the banks are positioning for here in Australia and that is pushing up unfixed home loan interest to 16%


Now if you listen to what is said about half way through the above video. He talks about the banks wanting property not money on their books.

As I say all hell will break loose for those on home loans that are not fixed. It will be the same in the States.

What is also scary, is that on election day I was just about to lock in my mortgage rate, but didn't, because the rate had jumped up by 1/8 point to 3.625... The next day (day after the election) it jumped to 3.75. The next day it jumped to 3.875. I locked in there... now it is 4.00. The VP I am dealing with at the mortgage company said in his career, he has never seen it rise that quickly.

Spooky. I have been wondering if this has to do with our friendly neighborhood fed leader showing who is boss...
 

Dozdoats

Deceased
http://www.europac.com/commentaries/king_debt_takes_reins_0

King of Debt Takes the Reins

Our weekly commentaries provide Euro Pacific Capital's latest thinking on developments in the global marketplace. Opinions expressed are those of the writer, and may or may not reflect those held by Euro Pacific Capital.
By: Peter Schiff
Thursday, November 17, 2016

The election of Ronald Reagan in 1980 provides the best recent precedent for the unexpected triumph of Donald Trump (in my opinion, the other post-war Republican takeovers of the White House --Ike in ’52, Nixon ’68, and W. in ’00 – did not constitute a real break from the status quo.) As many people expect great changes from Trump, it is worthwhile to look at what the Reagan Revolution actually wrought.

Both Reagan and Trump were better known to many as entertainers rather than politicians, both came from outside the Republican mainstream, and both engineered hostile takeovers of the Party. During the 1970s, the Republican Party was dominated by “Rockefeller Republicans,” the Ivy League-educated liberal Eastern elites. Reagan was the Western heir apparent to Barry Goldwater, the deeply conservative standard-bearer who went down in flames in 1964. In 1976, the brash Reagan had the nerve to challenge incumbent Republican President Gerry Ford in the primary, thereby weakening him in the general election, which he ultimately lost to Jimmy Carter. While Reagan was simply too conservative for the Rockefeller wing, Trump’s various positions are similarly inconsistent with much of the mainstream neo-conservative orthodoxy. Both candidates also capitalized on a weak economy as a catalyst to encourage voters to cross traditional party lines. Many of the rust belt ”Reagan Democrats” came home to Trump.

While books have been written about the cultural and political legacy of Reagan’s presidency, harder facts can be found in his budgetary record. Despite the economic revival that his tax-cutting and deregulation tendencies delivered, the national debt ballooned as it never had for any other peacetime President. Although the fiscal imbalances have gotten significantly worse since Reagan left office, the Gipper gave plenty of cover for future Republican presidents to run up red ink. President Donald Trump, the self-proclaimed “King of Debt”, now appears to be perfectly positioned to test the limit of how much debt the world’s largest economy can issue.

Leading up to the election of 1980, Reagan and the conservative economists who supported him, warned that Federal debt, which had risen to approximately 26% of GDP, had grown too heavy to bear*(data from Congressional Budget Office, July 2010)*Reagan brought the spirit of Milton Friedman into the Oval Office, and his campaign was based on a clear intention to roll back the nearly 50 years of socialist government expansion that had occurred since Roosevelt’s New Deal.

But when Reagan came to Washington he was confronted by a strong Democratic majority in the House of Representative led by House Speaker Tip O’Neill, a skillful and forceful defender of big government. Reagan soon discovered that the political price was always very high when government expenditures are being restricted. And so, Reagan decided to move on the tax cuts (a perennial political winner) but never really got around to the spending cuts. As a result, the 26% debt to GDP ratio that he inherited when he came into office expanded to 41%*by the time he left. (data from Congressional Budget Office, July 2010) This was not the complete conservative victory for which his backers had hoped.

Trump comes to office with similar expectations for significant changes. The good news for him is that he will face far fewer restrictions than Reagan had to face. Most importantly, both houses of Congress are now Republican. The Supreme Court is currently split along ideological lines but is likely to swing conservative after Trump’s appointment to the open Scalia seat.

On the taxation side, Trump has proposed cuts in personal and corporate tax rates that could likely sail through Congress. How much these moves will add to the deficit depends on how much growth they generate in the economy. Such predictions are very hard to make. But if the tax cuts are assured, the growth is not. However, there is no need to make algorithmic predictions on the budgetary implications of spending decisions. They are what they are, and their impact is immediate. Trump plans massive increases in Federal spending, initially in the form of a trillion dollar infrastructure spending over ten years, and billions to build his border wall and pay for his planned deportation force. On the spending side, Trump could likely get whatever he wants, and more. Had a smaller infrastructure spending plan been proposed by President Hillary Clinton, it would have likely been voted down by “fiscally hawkish” Congressional Republicans. Such scruples could fall by the wayside when the spending requests come from a Republican President.

Although the years of trillion dollar plus deficits we experienced during the first Obama term have been pared down to the $500 -$700 billion dollar range, the Congressional Budget Office’s Summary of The Budget and Economic Outlook, 1/19/16, currently predicts that we will officially return to trillion dollar levels by 2022. (In truth we are already there. Over the last 10 years the actual expansion of the debt has averaged $1.1 trillion per year, about $300 billion more than the average deficit of $790 billion over that time). (TreasuryDirect; usgovernmentspending.com) The CBO’s projections are based on no unplanned spending increases between now and 2022, steady GDP growth in the 2% to 3% range, and no dip into a recession (even though the current expansion is already far longer than the typical postwar expansion). Given this very optimistic set of assumptions, and Trump’s announced plans on taxing and spending, we should absolutely expect a massive expansion of the Federal debt over the next four years. The more difficult question is how it will be financed.

When making a comparison to Reagan, it is important to realize that he financed his debt expansion the old fashioned way: He sold long-term government debt to private investors. In the early 1980s, savings levels in the United States were much higher than they are today. The average American actually had money in the bank. And those with the means to invest were less inclined to dabble in stocks than they are today (there was no eTrade to make the process easy and transparent). The stock market had essentially made no gains between 1966 and 1980, (Dow Jones Industrial Average data) so investors could be forgiven for having given up faith. Bonds were a bigger part of the mix up and down the investment spectrum. And those investors who stepped up to the plate to buy those 30-year bonds in 1981 to finance the Reagan deficit ended up making some of the best portfolio decisions.

It seems impossible to believe in our current low interest world, but in 1982 the U.S government sold 30-year bonds with a 14% annual coupon. That’s right, a guaranteed, principal-protected, 14% annual return for 30 years. Investors today could only dream of something so magical. Of course inflation was higher back then (partly because the government hadn’t yet figured out how to recalibrate the Consumer Price Index), but even at its worst, inflation rose only to approximately eight*percent. (InflationData.com) This means that buyers of those 30-year bonds were getting a real rate of six percent above inflation. But it just gets better from there.

Over the course of the Reagan presidency inflation and interest rates came down steadily. This meant that those investors who bought in 1982 would see their real rate of return increase every year. By 1988 inflation had come down to 4%, so those bonds offered a real yield of 10%. The falling inflation strengthened the value of the dollar itself. So in relative terms Americans holding those bonds were seeing a real increase in purchasing power of their principal relative to the falling prices of imported goods. Also, in an environment of falling interest rates investors holding 30-year 14% bonds could sell those bonds before maturity for more than they paid. That’s because even at a price above par the bonds would still offer higher yields to maturity than newly issued bonds. But despite the premium, investors were better just to hold them till maturity. Purchasing Treasury bonds in 1982 was an investment in America’s future, but it also happened to turn out to be the deal of the Century.

Think about how different it would be today for investors making a similar choice to finance the Trump deficits. 30-year bonds are currently being offered at a rate of just under 3%. If you believe the government inflation figures of just about 2%, this means that your effective yield is about 1% (pre-tax). If inflation is even slightly higher, the real yield could be negative. And in 30 years there is plenty of time for inflation to go, much, much higher. If it does, these bonds would be all but guaranteed to deliver less purchasing power than their original cost, even if held to maturity.

If interest rates were to rise from the current low levels, as almost every economist and investor assumes they must, the value of long-term bonds will surely fall. In another danger to bond prices, Bloomberg News reports that the new Trump economic team will likely put pressure on the Fed to reduce the amount of bonds on its balance sheet. To do so in any meaningful way will require that the Fed sell off portions of its $4.5 trillion bond stash of holdings into the open market. This could turn the biggest buyer of Treasuries into the biggest seller.

A sustained period of falling bond prices would mean that if current buyers wanted to cash out before maturity, they would likely have to sell for a loss, not the gain that their fathers would have seen with the 1982 bonds. If rates got as high as five or six percent (and I think they will go much higher) those losses could be substantial. As Jim Grant likes to say, today’s long maturity bonds represent return-free risk. Or as Warren Buffet likes to say, it’s like picking up pennies in front of a steamroller.

The risks become greater still when you consider how America's fiscal position is much worse today than it was in 1980. When Reagan took the oath of office America was the world’s largest creditor nation. Today it’s the largest debtor. Our debt was just 26% of GDP then, while today its 105% and projected to go much higher over the next generation...even without Trump's taxing and spending plans factored in.

But arguing the investment merits of long-term government bonds is a bit pointless in the current age. Real investors gave up on bonds long ago. What little savings Americans still have either stays in the bank, or gets directed to stocks or real estate. The bond market has almost become the exclusive playground of central banks. In Japan and Europe, central banks are sucking up the vast majority of government debt. We did the same during our four years of quantitative easing, and the Federal Reserve’s balance sheet remains swollen.

If under President Trump annual deficits explode, whom should we expect to buy the trillions in debt we will have to issue to pay for it? In the recent past, the big buyers have been central banks in China, Japan and Saudi Arabia. Should we expect those customers to return? We may be in an allout trade war with China, Japan is already pushing its own QE program to the limit (its central bank is currently buying large portions of the Japanese stock market) and the Saudis are struggling with $50 oil. We may need to find new buyers.

But don’t look to Mom and Pop USA. Those investors are tapped out. Don’t look to the pension funds. They can’t meet their numbers with 3% coupons. Don’t look to the hedge funds. They are losing money fast due to bad performance, and their investors expect more nuanced thinking than U.S. Treasuries. What’s more, (in contrast to 1982) the U.S. dollar is currently near generational highs. If the dollar should weaken, holders of dollar-denominated debt will be left holding the bag. When Reagan was elected, the dollar had been beaten down to all time record lows, having lost about 2/3 of its value against currencies like the Deutsche mark, Swiss franc, and Japanese yen. So high yielding, dollar-denominated Treasuries were attractive investments for foreign savers. But the dollar has already risen sharply over the last few years based on expectations the Fed would normalize interest rates. Investors should not be under any illusions that the dollar will experience another continued rally. With so many reasons arguing against buying long-term dollar Treasuries, the Fed may be the only game in town.

Given that, it’s impossible to imagine that the Fed will ever allow interest rates to rise by any significant amount. (Doing so would devastate the value of their bond holdings and raise debt service costs past the point where the government, or most private borrowers, could pay). Already more than $4.5 Trillion of Treasury bonds sit on the Fed’s balance sheet. Look for that number to balloon during the Trump years.

Debt monetization was the term that used to be used by economists to describe the undesirable outcome of a country’s central bank becoming the exclusive financier of its national debt. Inflation and currency devaluation were expected to be the results of this brash approach to fiscal policy. But this will likely be our future under Trump. Investors would be wise to recognize this and to diversify appropriately.

In 2009, when the first Quantitative Easing program allowed the Fed to buy large quantities of Treasury bonds, then Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke pushed back against Congressional accusations of debt monetization by claiming that the purchases should be considered temporary, and that they would be unwound when the crisis passed. Since then the Fed has not sold a single Treasury and has used every penny of interest and principal repayments to buy more Treasuries. Should the Trump deficits force the Fed’s balance sheet into the stratosphere, it will be obvious to all what the Fed is doing.

America was able to survive Ronald Reagan's debt experiments because we started borrowing from a position of relative strength. But the debt took its toll, and we are now a shadow of our former selves. Yet rather than reversing course before it’s too late, Trump may just step on the gas, assuring we go over the cliff that much sooner.
 
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