REL GENRL Jesuit Pope: Athiests are redeemed if they do good works (no Jesus necessary)
- Thread starter Argonath
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fairbanksb
Freedom Isn't Free
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Scotto
Set Apart
1 John 2:4 "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. "
Proverbs 28:9 "Whoever turns aside his ear from hearing the Torah, even his prayer (is) an abomination."
Matthew 7:21-23 "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of Heaven, but the ones who do the will of My Father in Heaven.
Matthew 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the Torah, till all be fulfilled."
Proverbs 28:9 "Whoever turns aside his ear from hearing the Torah, even his prayer (is) an abomination."
Matthew 7:21-23 "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of Heaven, but the ones who do the will of My Father in Heaven.
Matthew 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the Torah, till all be fulfilled."
eens
Nuns with Guns
Doesn't the protestant bible have James in it?
Doesn't the protestant bible have James in it?
James, 2:[14] What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him? [15] And if a brother or sister be naked, and want daily food:
[16] And one of you say to them: Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; yet give them not those things that are necessary for the body, what shall it profit? [17] So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself. [18] But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith. [19] Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. [20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
[21] Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar? [22] Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect? [23] And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God. [24] Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only? [25] And in like manner also Rahab the harlot, was not she justified by works, receiving the messengers, and sending them out another way?
James, 2:[26] For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead.
Doesn't the protestant bible have James in it?
James, 2:[14] What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him? [15] And if a brother or sister be naked, and want daily food:
[16] And one of you say to them: Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; yet give them not those things that are necessary for the body, what shall it profit? [17] So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself. [18] But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith. [19] Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. [20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
[21] Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar? [22] Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect? [23] And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God. [24] Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only? [25] And in like manner also Rahab the harlot, was not she justified by works, receiving the messengers, and sending them out another way?
James, 2:[26] For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead.
NoPlugsNM
Deceased
I have a pdf that is specific to the Laws of One, I will have to find it. It's on my old computer. You can start with the information here http://www.stankovuniversallaw.com/ keep in mind that the pdf I mentioned, it really goes into the same materials that the Jesuits reference from time to time, but they are rather careful on how they reference this stuff. I guess the Vatican DOES have old texts that do go to this Laws of One, that stuff they refuse to release, and that stuff came into the picture around the time of Pope Constatine. There is quite a rich history to all the Laws of One. The Laws are incorporated in the practice of Budhism as well. Daoists also have reference to them as well in their materials.
NP
buff
Deceased
you da man Legolas...
Scotto
Set Apart
I wonder if this has been misconstrued somewhat....
The pope is correct that Yahusha died for all, for all sinners (all of us sin) and died even for the atheists that IF THEY REPENT - and only then - can they be saved.
But it doesn't matter how "good" these atheists are if they do not repent and turn from atheism. There is no such thing as a "saved atheist," and if the pope meant that, then........
The pope is correct that Yahusha died for all, for all sinners (all of us sin) and died even for the atheists that IF THEY REPENT - and only then - can they be saved.
But it doesn't matter how "good" these atheists are if they do not repent and turn from atheism. There is no such thing as a "saved atheist," and if the pope meant that, then........
As I understand it, The Bema Seat of Christ is where His believers will be judged for the "good works" done on behalf of His Kingdom - there Christ will judge the HEART and its motive in doing these "good works" and, if not done for Him, will be of no value and not rewardable, while works of purer motives are rewarded as He'd promised.
Given that, if an atheist or agnostic does "good works", it was not done out of a love for a God they don't believe in and are therefore worthless. But the unbeliever is judged not for good but for evil so they wouldn't "count" anyway. It follows that God puts the desire to do good on a believer's heart.
Someone once told me that being/doing "good" being enough is a lie from the pit of hell. No one is good, not one; thank you, Jesus, for your precious gift of salvation for all who believe!
Given that, if an atheist or agnostic does "good works", it was not done out of a love for a God they don't believe in and are therefore worthless. But the unbeliever is judged not for good but for evil so they wouldn't "count" anyway. It follows that God puts the desire to do good on a believer's heart.
Someone once told me that being/doing "good" being enough is a lie from the pit of hell. No one is good, not one; thank you, Jesus, for your precious gift of salvation for all who believe!
bw
Fringe Ranger
Atheists have nothing to repent for. Atheists live outside of the concept of sin and repentance. It simply doesn't exist for them.
Atheists have responsibility, guilt for wrongs, and making amends. But they have no sin and no repentance. Sin and repentance are religious concepts.
Matter of fact, an atheist CAN'T repent. Before an atheist can begin to repent, he/she must have converted to a believer. So by the time they get to repentance, they are no longer atheists.
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Doesn't the protestant bible have James in it?
James, 2:[14] What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him? [15] And if a brother or sister be naked, and want daily food:
[16] And one of you say to them: Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; yet give them not those things that are necessary for the body, what shall it profit? [17] So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself. [18] But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith. [19] Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. [20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
[21] Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar? [22] Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect? [23] And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God. [24] Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only? [25] And in like manner also Rahab the harlot, was not she justified by works, receiving the messengers, and sending them out another way?
James, 2:[26] For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead.
Perhaps you should do an eschatology of the word works...
It means holy spirit manifestation, not earthly human works.
The word 'works' is Ergon.
•Ever since Jesus ascended, we are able to perform greater works then He did! – Jn. 5:20
•Works bear witness and validate Jesus’ claim of relationship with God the Father – Jn. 5:36, Jn. 10:25, Jn. 14:11
•We must believe in Jesus to do the work of God – Jn. 6:29
•If we believe in Jesus we will do the works that He did! – Jn.14:12
•Works caused people to believe Jesus – Jn. 10:38
Every verse above relates to a miraculous work, not an earthly or human work. The Works of the Father, and of every believer, should be manifestations of the spirit, not works of the flesh.
When Jesus healed the lame man at the pool of Bethesda in John 5, the Jews began to persecute Him because the healing took place on a Sabbath. In response to them Jesus says, “My Father is working [ergon] until now, and I am working [ergon].”[19] There are many miraculous healings and supernatural acts of Jesus where ergon/works is used in the New Testament, but this verse shows us something else. With ergon meaning ‘active’ work, this attributes God as a pro-active, non-passive God. God was actively working supernaturally in behalf of His people before the time of Jesus on the earth, and He continues to do so. He is not a passive God who sits on His throne and waits around with no earthly intervention.
So the REAL definition of James 2:15 is.... Your faith is not TRUE, without the Works of God manifesting from that faith. Ie... How can we truly grow in faith, belief, losing our doubt and unbelief, if there is not tangible, and undisputed manifestations of power from God, when we call to Him for something?
library lady
Veteran Member
Isn't it time to move this post?
The OP seems to want to discuss his own view of religion and -- frankly -- the headline seems Catholic bashing, especially considering that the story came from the biased liberal Huffington Post AND there are other explanations of what the Pope was saying.
In Catholic theology, you must accept the gift of salvation, not just do good works, to go to heaven. It does have to do with Jesus. The Pope never said it didn't. I suspect he was saying doing good works was a starting point -- a place you could begin talking to atheists.
The OP seems to want to discuss his own view of religion and -- frankly -- the headline seems Catholic bashing, especially considering that the story came from the biased liberal Huffington Post AND there are other explanations of what the Pope was saying.
In Catholic theology, you must accept the gift of salvation, not just do good works, to go to heaven. It does have to do with Jesus. The Pope never said it didn't. I suspect he was saying doing good works was a starting point -- a place you could begin talking to atheists.
ncmissouri
Veteran Member
Throughout this thread, it was striking to see how many have accepted Jesus and are works in progress! Man, I didn't know I had so many brothers and sisters in the faith. We are one body, the body of Christ.
Milk-maid
Girls with Guns Member
It's funny--
But when we agree with the Pope, there is never a problem or question of translation.
When we don't agree with the Pope, then the translation thing always comes up.
Can't have it both ways.
Now however, this was posted by the Huffington Post, that Liberal RAG of a newspaper. I don't trust them to not have cut out a sentence here or there that clarified what the Pope was trying to say. Taken out of context, it could all be screwed up....
AND... furthermore, there are a lot of enemies of Christ right inside the Vatican itself. Who knows what butchering went on before the release of the originial article to the HuffPO?
But when we agree with the Pope, there is never a problem or question of translation.
When we don't agree with the Pope, then the translation thing always comes up.
Can't have it both ways.
Now however, this was posted by the Huffington Post, that Liberal RAG of a newspaper. I don't trust them to not have cut out a sentence here or there that clarified what the Pope was trying to say. Taken out of context, it could all be screwed up....
AND... furthermore, there are a lot of enemies of Christ right inside the Vatican itself. Who knows what butchering went on before the release of the originial article to the HuffPO?
It is easy to attack the messenger, in which I have NO PROBLEM someone going beyond the OP, and seeking other sources that quote different words or interpretations.
Guess what? No one has... they simply don't like what was said, automatically dismiss it, and then say AHA... Huffpo! They haxxed the message, although no one brings counter proof to this.
To blindly follow an earthly establishment, a man, or a doctrine leads to destruction. Catholics despise Martin Luther, but ignore the fact that the Pope was selling indulgences for vast sums of money to build himself a palace in Rome. Martin Luther was an anti-Semite, and in his latter years, a bitter man against the Reformists, but the fact remains, he stood up against the most dominant power in Europe, that would KILL YOU in the name of God for anything considered heresy (aka against their wishes and desires), and was the founder of a revolutionary movement that changed the church system forever.
But the TRUTH doesn't matter to those what hold an institution or a man in higher esteem than the figure it is supposed to worship and follow. And for that, I cannot sit and be silent simply because someone holds cult like feelings for something, and picks and choose scriptures verses, while ignoring others, just to justify their beliefs.
We do not do this in regards to politics on this board... so why should we in regards to religion? The fact is, Truth is the most important thing, in every institution, segment, or activity in life, and to not at least discuss it, and if it doesn't fit our worldview call someone a 'basher', then is the problem with the person bringing the idea to debate, or is the person who's life is boxed up in a belief so tight, nothing is ever allowed to come in...
even truth.
SusieSunshine
Veteran Member
Link please
Milk-maid
Girls with Guns Member
Here is a link to Luther's writings and as one person said, it is clear from what he wrote towards the end of his life, he regretted leaving the Catholic church.
I haven't read this yet, so you'll have to do your own research at the link.
http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2006/11/luther-lutheranism-index-page.html
I haven't read this yet, so you'll have to do your own research at the link.
http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2006/11/luther-lutheranism-index-page.html
Gercarson
Veteran Member
Matthew 7:21-23
New King James Version (NKJV)
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
New King James Version (NKJV)
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
However, one must also remember that God will intervene in a man's life to serve His purpose on occasion.
In ancient Egypt, under the reign of Kufu, the Pharaoh was a dutiful follower of the multiple deities in their pantheon of Gods. Then suddenly, Kufu quit this worship and was compelled to follow a monotheistic worship. It was at this time Kufu ordered the construction of the Great Pyramid of Giza, which lasted about 38 years.
Shortly after the pyramids construction, Kufu went BACK to the worship of the priests, and followed the polytheistic worship of the Egyptian gods.
Why is this important? Because the Great Pyramid Giza, which is the only pyramid not housing ANY pharaoh or tomb, was ordained by the Almighty and written of in Isaiah 19:19-20.
In that day there will be an altar to the LORD in the heart of Egypt, and a monument to the LORD at its border.
It will be a sign and witness to the LORD Almighty in the land of Egypt. When they cry out to the LORD because of their oppressors, he will send them a savior and defender, and he will rescue them.
How can something be in the HEART (center) of Egypt, and on the border? Because when it was built, Egypt was divided into the upper and lower nile regions, and Giza stood on the BORDER of each. Then, when Egypt became a single nation, the pyramid then sat in the CENTER.
And was built as a remembrance to the Hebrews of a savior (Moses) who would one day rescue them.
So it is not surprising, a man dedicated to the church for most of his early life, who took his vows as a monk to extremes even the monastery he resided at thought were too much, would at the end of his life be drawn back to the church that he loved, but despised for its idolatry, luxury, and in many cases iniquity... exhibited by men, and not the beliefs he thought the church extolled.
The Reformation needed to happen... in fact, if it hadn't, America's colonization would have been MUCH different today, perhaps even ruled by the Spanish and the church, which had early domination over the continent. However, over time the reformation denominations themselves have become corrupt, and should not be unexpected by any earthly institution created by men.
Jesus delivered the spiritual kingdom of God... man created the earthly institution of church... which in the end will stand righteous before God, and not open to corruption, iniquity, and control by spiritual forces who can sway MEN's hearts and minds through avarice and power.
SusieSunshine
Veteran Member
<Big Sigh>
I want these words to be received as a gentle, positive, and uplifting challenge.
I want you to imagine a God looking down at earth, as a small blue round piece of dust orbiting around just one star in galaxy of billions of stars, and then imagine that God turning around to look at billions of galaxies. And then, as our scientists just reported from Cern, that same God then "looking" at the billions of universes that encompass all of creation.
And that God is going to damn you to hell for failing to try to make sense of all the deception, pain and confusion our puny little human minds can handle here on this little tiny round blue speck of dust orbiting a humble little star?
Have a wonderful Memorial Holiday weekend folks.
In the end, love is all there is.
I send you all my Love,
~Maverick
I want these words to be received as a gentle, positive, and uplifting challenge.
I want you to imagine a God looking down at earth, as a small blue round piece of dust orbiting around just one star in galaxy of billions of stars, and then imagine that God turning around to look at billions of galaxies. And then, as our scientists just reported from Cern, that same God then "looking" at the billions of universes that encompass all of creation.
And that God is going to damn you to hell for failing to try to make sense of all the deception, pain and confusion our puny little human minds can handle here on this little tiny round blue speck of dust orbiting a humble little star?
Have a wonderful Memorial Holiday weekend folks.
In the end, love is all there is.
I send you all my Love,
~Maverick
armadillogray
Inactive
There are absolutely NO polytheistic religions. What some people think are multiple gods are actually manifestations of the same deity to depict various characteristics. The Egyptians had a supreme deity, Ra, that is also the supreme deity of every other religion if one were to take the time to read and understand.
Even indigenous cultures held that there was a supreme god but they did honor other individuals...thinking about their ancestors....
Mother Teresa had a hospice in a abandoned temple to Kali, a Hindu deity. When it was pointed out that she did not prostelyze, she said that she believed even Hindus should strive to be the best they could....seems like the pope has that in mind.....
Even indigenous cultures held that there was a supreme god but they did honor other individuals...thinking about their ancestors....
Mother Teresa had a hospice in a abandoned temple to Kali, a Hindu deity. When it was pointed out that she did not prostelyze, she said that she believed even Hindus should strive to be the best they could....seems like the pope has that in mind.....
SusieSunshine
Veteran Member
Luk 23:38 And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
Luk 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
Luk 23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
Luk 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Luk 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
Luk 23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
Luk 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
ainitfunny
Saved, to glorify God.
Yes Jesus DID redeem ALL mankind, past, present and future.
No that does NOT MEAN EVERYBODY goes to heaven.
They ALL STILL have/had the CHOICE to ACCEPT salvation and Jesus as their Lord.
That is the only,and final, unforgivable sin- rejecting the gift of Salvation and Jesus as Lord.
That is a choice and decision that must be made during one's mortal life. (life on earth, before your body dies.)
No that does NOT MEAN EVERYBODY goes to heaven.
They ALL STILL have/had the CHOICE to ACCEPT salvation and Jesus as their Lord.
That is the only,and final, unforgivable sin- rejecting the gift of Salvation and Jesus as Lord.
That is a choice and decision that must be made during one's mortal life. (life on earth, before your body dies.)
I had 8 years of Catholic school, followed by 4 years of CCD during high school. A couple of related topics that were discussed way back then are applicable to this topic. First, to sin there has to be three conditions:
I has to be a sin, you have to know it's a sin, and you have to do it willingly i.e. - if someone hold a gun to you and makes you kill some one, it's not your sin as you had no choice in the matter ((we'll bypass the argument that you could have refused and allowed yourself to be shot)). So, some one that is not a "believer", if they have not been taught that something is a sin can not be held responsible; although if they are taught that something is bad/wrong/evil and still does it then, yes, they still have sinned.
Second, we were questioning what happens to good non-believers, as we could not see God punishing good people who had not been introduced to Jesus (mainly looking at historical periods); the priest commented that this has been a issue brought up to the Church as far back as the middle ages, and the Church stance since then was that those good people would still be judged at the last judgement, when they would be given the chance to know Jesus and accept him. Until then, they would be in a state of limbo, neither in Heaven or Hell. You still need to accept Jesus, and everyone will get a chance to do that at the Last Judgement and be judged for their actions during life.
I has to be a sin, you have to know it's a sin, and you have to do it willingly i.e. - if someone hold a gun to you and makes you kill some one, it's not your sin as you had no choice in the matter ((we'll bypass the argument that you could have refused and allowed yourself to be shot)). So, some one that is not a "believer", if they have not been taught that something is a sin can not be held responsible; although if they are taught that something is bad/wrong/evil and still does it then, yes, they still have sinned.
Second, we were questioning what happens to good non-believers, as we could not see God punishing good people who had not been introduced to Jesus (mainly looking at historical periods); the priest commented that this has been a issue brought up to the Church as far back as the middle ages, and the Church stance since then was that those good people would still be judged at the last judgement, when they would be given the chance to know Jesus and accept him. Until then, they would be in a state of limbo, neither in Heaven or Hell. You still need to accept Jesus, and everyone will get a chance to do that at the Last Judgement and be judged for their actions during life.
Kook
A 'maker', not a 'taker'!
Doesn't the protestant bible have James in it?
James, 2:[14] What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him? [15] And if a brother or sister be naked, and want daily food:
[16] And one of you say to them: Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; yet give them not those things that are necessary for the body, what shall it profit? [17] So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself. [18] But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith. [19] Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. [20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
[21] Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar? [22] Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect? [23] And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God. [24] Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only? [25] And in like manner also Rahab the harlot, was not she justified by works, receiving the messengers, and sending them out another way?
James, 2:[26] For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead.
The book of James is for the Tribulation saints.
Sheeeeesh..... I guess I'm the only dispensationalist on this board. You should try it, it clears up all of the controversies in this thread. There is no other way to harmonize all the scriptures, none. Until someone accepts that, they get into the "This scripture says this..." or "But what about....?" mess. It never ends unless the scripture is "rightly divided".
Giskard
Only human
According to Romans it is the reverse. We are all born in sin. We all sin. None deserve redemption. Some get to hear and accept the Gospel by grace, not because it's their shot or what we deserve. We all deserve hell. That a few are spared is God's grace. And, not just because scripture never mentions it, there is no "limbo." Pope Leo admitted it as a fabrication.
See folks... this is what I'm talking about: Pure, unabashed ignorance. It's absolutely pitiful.
Giskard
Only human
Maverick, I'm not talking about you. You are perfect and sinless. And even if you DID have sin, the Holy God will allow you in His presence. Sure, why not. You are such a nice guy, after all.
And when Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father but by me." Meaning his sacrificial death for our sins, he didn't mean you. You, of course, can get in on your own merits. Who needs that Jesus fellow anyway. Right?
Hey cut the bullshit OK:
So I simply ask of you to be reasonable, logical, and ruthlessly critical of everything you believe, just as I am of everything I believe, because that is the only way we get to the core of truth my friend.
So if you want to condem all of humanity to a cruel sentence like that - you better be able to defend it. And if you do defend it, and defend it well, you will convince me to take your side. Honestly.
Because your statement:
Not *ONLY* includes me, but a *heck* of a lot of people who definitely don't deserve it.
So I simply ask of you to be reasonable, logical, and ruthlessly critical of everything you believe, just as I am of everything I believe, because that is the only way we get to the core of truth my friend.
So if you want to condem all of humanity to a cruel sentence like that - you better be able to defend it. And if you do defend it, and defend it well, you will convince me to take your side. Honestly.
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