GUNS/RLTD Mini/Pocket 9mm Pistols for Concealed Carry

It's important to have a gun, yes. But even more important is having the MINDSET to be able to use it in self defense, and the SKILLSET to be able to use it safely and effectively. The will and ability to use the tool is still more important than the tool itself.
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http://www.teamgunblogger.com/minipocket-9mm-pistols-for-concealed-carry/2013/05/16/

Mini/Pocket 9mm Pistols for Concealed Carry
Published May 16, 2013 by KevinC
Filed under Carry, CCW, Equipment, Self Defense

I’ve been a fan of mini 9mm pistols for concealed carry since I purchased a Sccy CPX-1 in 2007. My history with the Sccy has been a little chequered, (it’s gone back to the shop three times), so I carry a Smith and Wesson Shield now. Even with that history, I’m still a big proponent of the combination of size and firepower that a sub-subcompact 9mm brings to the table, and they have the added value of having roughly the same manual of arms as their bigger cousins, the 9mm service pistol. Which is good, because despite their popularity, these are not good guns for a beginning shooter: Their small size means they have more recoil and kick then bigger 9mm’s, and that small size also equates to a shorter sight radius, making longer shots a bit tougher.

Here’s a semi-complete roundup of all the mini/pocket 9mm’s out there, set up so you can quickly compare features such as price and weight against each other gun. Scroll to the left to see all the columns.

SEE LINK FOR CHART - http://www.teamgunblogger.com/minipocket-9mm-pistols-for-concealed-carry/2013/05/16/

(1) Assuming 0.441 ounces for each 124gr 9mm cartridge and .355 ounces for each .380 100gr cartridge
(2) Concealablity Index =
( 0.75(Length) x Height x 1.25(Width) x 1.5(Loaded Weight) )/100
(3) Firepower Index = ( Energy In ft/lbs x bullet weight in grains x Capacity)/100. 124gr for 9mm’s, 95gr for .380.
(4) A full can of soda weighs about 13.76 ounces
* I couldn’t find a review for the AMT Backup in 9mm. If you know of one, leave it in the comments
IWB = Inside the Waistband holster. OWB = Outside the Waistband Holster.
SAO – Singe Action Only. DAO – Double Action Only. Striker – Striker fired. SA/DA = You guessed it, both Single Action AND Double Action, depending on how you use it.
Long, boring description of what this means over here, but for now, just think SA = better, smoother trigger but needs a safety, DA/Striker = kinda sorta like a revolver. -ish.

I added in other pistols like the the Glock 26, which we don’t often think as part of the “mini 9mm” group but is right in the middle of the pack when it comes to size, weight and firepower, and other guns like the Kel-Tec P3AT and the Glock 19 to compare the pocket 9mm’s to their smaller and larger siblings. And why the CZ P07? Because I like CZ’s, that’s why! (And it’s also an occasional carry gun for me as well).

The Firepower/Concealability Indexes were just my way of quantifying how easy any particular gun is to carry and how much oomph it brings to the party. If you like the idea or think it should be tweaked a bit, let me know in the comments.

And why weight in soda cans? Because I suck at judging weights, that’s why. In my mind, there’s not heavy, heavy and “lift with the legs, not with the back.” But a can of soda? I know how heavy that is. Imagine carrying around two full cans of soda on one side of your belt all day long (like a Glock 19), and you’ll know why pocket 9mm guns are so popular for concealed carry.

Kevin’s Note: My choice of all those is the Smith And Wesson Shield, although if CZ made something in this size, I’d probably buy that instead. I like the Shield for its combination of size, capacity, ergonomics and trigger: It’s not the smallest, thinnest, lightest or least expensive, but it covers all of those bases very well.

Jaci’s Note: Once I made the decision to purchase a carry gun, I spent a few months handling and shooting several pocket/CCW style pistols. The LC9 impressed me with its slim form, light weight and long, but smooth trigger pull. During my search for a carry pistol, I was able to shoot the LC9 on a back up gun stage at a practical pistol match. It was so easy for me to operate, I was instantly sold. One of my favorite features of the LC9 is the extended magazine floorplate. I can get a solid grip on it with my right hand, which helps me shoot it more confidently and accurately.

If it's not a Sig! Give me a revolver. Here's my mini 9 choice.
warty






SIG SAUER P290RS Sub-Compact 9 mm

Compact yet powerful, the P290RS provides quality and performance.
By NRA Staff
4/22/2013


While SIG SAUER pistols are often the choice of Federal law enforcement and U.S. Military personnel, the company also enjoys significant and well-earned popularity among civilian shooters. Those interested in concealed carry and personal protection have a newly redesigned pistol to consider, the SIG P290RS.

This sub-compact, hammer-fired, double-action-only, semi-automatic, short-recoil-operated pistol is chambered for the 9 mm Luger cartridge with six-round magazine capacity. SIG SAUER has made several improvements over previous iterations of this model, most significantly a restrike capability, thus the “RS” designation. The pistol has a full double-action design so that each squeeze of the trigger will cock and release the hammer for a full strike on the firing pin. This allows for an easy double-strike capability in case of a light primer hit or a hard primer.


Other new features include an extended beavertail frame, minimizing the risk of hammer bite or slide interference, a reconfigured slide stop/release, a smaller and redesigned magazine release and a finger extension magazine base for a firmer hold.

The sample pistol’s stainless-steel slide was black Nitron finished, but the gun is also available in its natural stainless coloring. There is an external extractor on the right side of the slide but no loaded-chamber indicator. The white three-dot sights are dovetailed into the slide and are drift-adjustable. SIG SAUER also provides different height front and rear sights for elevation adjustments. The test pistol’s sights were centered for windage and fired just slightly below point of aim at the 7-yard aiming distance.

As befits a discreet defensive pistol, the P290RS comes standard with SIGLITE Night Sights, which are visible in low-light conditions. While there is no accessory rail on the dust cover, there is a rubber plug that is easily removed and accommodates an optional integrated laser module.

The pistol does not use a barrel bushing but instead the front of the nearly 3-inch carbon-steel barrel is flared to create a tight lockup with the slide’s front. The guide rod is polymer and features dual-nested recoil springs as is common with many sub-compact pistols.

The pistol’s frame is constructed of black polymer. The frontstrap, backstrap and the side panels feature aggressive texturing for increased purchase. The grip panels are interchangeable for a custom appearance with the easy removal of a cross pin. Several options are available including different colors as well as wooden panels. The bottom of the magazine well features cutouts to make magazine removal easier should it be necessary.

The double-action steel trigger is extremely smooth with only a slight takeup and measured an average of close to 8 pounds, 8 ounces on the sample pistol. The steel, triangular-shaped magazine release is on the left side of the frame. An extended, fully functional steel slide stop/release on the left side of the frame locks the slide open after the last round or on an empty magazine.

Two magazines are included, the standard six-round magazine with a very slight finger extension polymer floor plate and an eight-round extended magazine with a wraparound polymer finger extension that provides a full-size pistol handhold. The extended grip on the eight-round magazine also matches the texturing pattern on the grip panels.

There is no external mechanical safety, but the P290RS does include a firing pin safety block that blocks the firing pin from any forward movement unless the trigger is depressed. An internal disconnector also prevents the hammer from falling and striking the firing pin unless the slide is completely in battery. The pistol does not have a magazine disconnect safety.

Disassembling the P290RS is simple. First ensure that the pistol is unloaded by removing the magazine and clearing the chamber, then retract the slide until the slide stop tab and slide notch are aligned. The slide stop can be removed by pressing on the opposite side of the stop pin until it clears the barrel underlug and then allowing the slide to ride forward off the frame. The slide stop does not need to be completely removed in order for the slide to be taken off from the frame. Once the slide and frame are separated, the non-captive recoil spring, guide rod and barrel can be detached.

The SIG P290RS fit the hand well and was very controllable and easy to fire on the range. Accuracy testing conducted at 7 yards proved it was capable of producing respectable groups, especially given its intended use. The smallest group measured a scant 0.73 inches, while the largest went to 2.44 inches. There were zero malfunctions during the evaluation phase.

With the P290RS SIG SAUER offers an affordably priced 9 mm Luger handgun that is optimally sized for concealed carry, yet it gives up nothing with regard to the quality and performance shooters have come to expect from the New Hampshire gunmaker.

Manufacturer: SIG SAUER, Inc.; (603) 772-2302; www.sigsauer.com
Caliber: 9 mm Luger
Action Type: double-action-only, hammer-fired, semi-automatic center-fire pistol
Frame: black polymer
Barrel: 2.9"
Rifling: six-groove, 1:10" RH twist
Magazine: detachable-box; six-round capacity
Sights: SIGLITE night sights; drift-adjustable
Trigger: single-stage; 8-lb., 7-oz. pull
Overall Length: 5.5"
Width: 1.1"
Height: 4.1"
Weight: 19.2 ozs.
Stocks: black polymer (interchangeable)
Accessories: gun lock, polymer holster, spare magazine
Suggested Retail Price: $570

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/sig-sauer-p290rs-sub-compact-9mm-review/

Remember guys, if yer in Ohio, carrying one of these in your pocket in a car or on a cycle, you need to have it in a pocket holster because of the phrasing of the law when motor vehicles are involved, unless they changed this in the last 2 years...because the law says carrying concealed in a car is good IF IN A HOLSTER (or in a latched/buttoned/zipped case, etc).

night driver said:

Remember guys, if yer in Ohio, carrying one of these in your pocket in a car or on a cycle, you need to have it in a pocket holster because of the phrasing of the law when motor vehicles are involved, unless they changed this in the last 2 years...because the law says carrying concealed in a car is good IF IN A HOLSTER (or in a latched/buttoned/zipped case, etc).

Click to expand...

That has changed, and you can also carry in a alcohol serving establishment as long as you're not consuming.

Warthog said:

That has changed, and you can also carry in a alcohol serving establishment as long as you're not consuming.

Click to expand...

Good to know.

When we took our Utah class in Columbus 2 years ago the instructor had a lawyer who specializes in Ohio CHL issues in and one of his points was the pocket holster need. Nice to see SOMEONE got their head straight for once...

Pocket pistols should be in an appropriate pocket holster anyway as a general rule, to keep odds and ends out of the trigger guard. Otherwise noisy accidents might happen... . A proper pocket holster also keepa the pistol oriented for easy access, and helps retain it in the pocket where it belongs.

I was doing some hands-on FOF with a 'blue gun' S&W snubby in my usual carry pocket. When I was down on the mat the blue gun kept slipping out and winding up loose on the mats, available for my 'opponent' to grab and use on me, until I started using the pocket holster that fit my 642 (no live firearms/ammo/blades allowed in the training area!). Keeping the gun in place is an important function for a pocket holster as mentioned above.

I prefer leather for my holsters, and order mine from http://www.rkbaholsters.com/ - glad to see this young man staying so busy making holsters, he does good work.

per great Jeff Cooper, his criteria for concealibility was THINNESS

Ruger LC9 vs Sig P290 vs Kimber Solo 9mm Pistol Comparison

January 12, 2013
http://www.armspost.com/ruger-lc9-vs-sig-p290-vs-kimber-solo/


Our Ruger LC9 vs Sig P290 vs Kimber Solo 9mm pistol size comparison image is rendered with the three guns backed up to the y axis and dropped down onto the x axis to best compare the height and length of these 9mm pistols. This image was the very first size comparison image we created.

As the micro-9 pistols started to roll out on the coat tails of the extremely popular .380 ACP pocket pistol market these were the three top dogs.

The big question became, which is better?

Well isn’t that the million dollar question and unfortunately the best answer is, “it depends.”

If price is a big deciding factor, then you want the Ruger LC9.

If you are a huge 1911 fan, then the Kimber Solo is for you.

If you are a sucker “like me” for a bull barrel, then maybe the Sig P290 is your choice.

I am a big fan of everything Ruger so I have a biased opinion, but find myself disappointed because the Ruger LC9 is quite a bit larger than the Sig P290 and the Kimber Solo. When news started to come out that Ruger was designing a 9mm companion for the LCP I pictured something just slightly larger.

The Kimber Solo upon close examination has a grip that’s better designed for larger hands. The grip has a little more real estate, a benefit of designing the trigger guard to sit slightly higher. The Kimber Solo has the grip angle / ergonomics of a 1911. The Sig Sauer P290 and Ruger LC9 follow nearly identical grip angles while the Kimber went with a sharper angle to it’s grip.

Speaking of grips… the P290 has customizable grips in case you need a different fit.

-The price hasn’t been released for the P290 on Sig’s site, but the P238 comes in at $679 plus.

Update: Sig released the price. WOW, EXPENSIVE. Base Two Tone is_$786.00 (290-9-TSS) and the Two Tone with Laser is $828 (290-9-TSS-L).
-It’s official, the Ruger is cheaper, by far!!!!!

We did notice that the measurements do not seem to hold completely true to specs on the Sig and Kimber. We took the images and scaled them to proper dimensions, but it became apparent that there was a very minor discrepancy in the dimensions. That said, it is by just less than 0.1 inch. Regardless, both the Sig P290 and Kimber Solo were still noticeably smaller than the Ruger LC9.

We have included the measurements of the Ruger LCP below, as a reference.
Brand————Height (inches)—–Length (inches)—Price_
Ruger LC9————4.5 inches———-6.0 inches——-$443_
Sig Sauer P290——-3.9 inches———-5.5 inches——–$786_
Kimber Solo———–3.9 inches———-5.5 inches——-$725_
Ruger LCP————3.6 inches———-5.16 inches——-$373__

Dozdoats said:

I prefer leather for my holsters, and order mine from http://www.rkbaholsters.com/ - glad to see this young man staying so busy making holsters, he does good work.

Click to expand...

Yes he does, he made a home for my 640

Ruger LC9

Dozdoats said:

It's important to have a gun, yes. But even more important is having the MINDSET to be able to use it in self defense, and the SKILLSET to be able to use it safely and effectively. The will and ability to use the tool is still more important than the tool itself.

Click to expand...

USMC Rules For Combat

Bring a weapon. Preferably, bring at least two. Bring all of your friends who have weapons. Bring their friends who have weapons.

Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.

Only hits count. Close doesn't count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.

If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough, nor using cover correctly.

Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movement are preferred.)

If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a big weapon and a friend with a big weapon.

In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived and who didn't.
If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running.

Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting is more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the weapon.

Use a weapon that works EVERY TIME. "All skill is in vain when an Angel pisses in the flintlock of your musket."

Someday someone may kill you with your own weapon, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

In combat, there are no rules, always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.
Have a plan.

Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work.

Use cover or concealment as much as possible. The visible target should be in FRONT of YOUR weapon.

Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.

Don't drop your guard.

Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees.

Watch their hands. Hands kill. (In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them).

Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.

The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.

Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.

Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to awareness, avoidance and deterrence.

I have and carry a Springfield XD S in .45 (not a nine I know ) BUT.... The XD S is now offered in 9mm and is worthy of consideration/comparison with all of these other pocket 9's. It is very comparable to the Smith & Wesson Shield. I prefer both the Shield and the XD S to my Glock 27 ( & I really like my Glock 27 : ) Another one worthy of consideration that did not get compared is the Kahr PM 9/.40 and the P 380. The Kahr's are ridiculously accurate and handle well. A little too chunky in the PM 9/.40 I carry the P 380 often in a work vest pocket as a back up.

Sounds a lot like Clint Smith...

Attitude counts for a lot in a fight!
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http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/quotations-of-clint-smith

Quotations of Clint Smith

Clint Smith, President and Director of Thunder Ranch®, is a Marine Corps veteran of two infantry and Combined Action Platoon tours in Vietnam. His experience includes seven years as a police officer during which he served as head of the Firearms Training Division as well as being a S.W.A.T. member and precision rifleman.

Mr. Smith is noted for his common sense quotations about guns and personal defense. If you know of a gun quote from Mr. Smith not listed here, send it to us. (But make SURE it's not already listed. Okay?)

Back to the main Famous Gun Quotes page.

"Beware the man who only has one gun. He probably knows how to use it!"

"An armed man will kill an unarmed man with monotonous regularity."

"A reporter did a human-interest piece on the Texas Rangers. The reporter recognized the Colt Model 1911 the Ranger was carrying and asked him 'Why do you carry a 45?' The Ranger responded, 'Because they don't make a 46.'"

"When seconds count, the cops are just minutes away."

"I carry a gun cause a cop is too heavy."

"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental."

"You cannot save the planet. You may be able to save yourself and your family."

"You have the rest of your life to solve your problems. How long you live depends on how well you do it."

"You can say 'stop' or 'alto' or use any other word you think will work but I've found that a large bore muzzle pointed at someone's head is pretty much the universal language."

"Don't shoot fast, shoot good."

"If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous. If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid for."

"If you're not shootin', you should be loadin'. If you're not loadin, you should be movin', if you're not movin', someone's gonna cut your head off and put it on a stick."

"Make your attacker advance through a wall of bullets. I may get killed with my own gun, but he's gonna have to beat me to death with it, cause it's gonna be empty."

"Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way."

"Every time I teach a class, I discover I don't know something."

"The two most important rules in a gunfight are: always cheat and always win."

"The handgun would not be my choice of weapon if I knew I was going to a fight. ...I'd choose a rifle, a shotgun, an RPG or an atomic bomb instead."

And speaking of ATTITUDE, here's The Colonel...
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http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/quotations-of-jeff-cooper

Quotations of Jeff Cooper

John Dean "Jeff" Cooper (May 10, 1920 - September 25, 2006) is known as father of the "Modern Technique" of handgun shooting. Most firearm professionals consider him to be one of the 20th century's leading experts on the use and history of small arms.

Col. Cooper is noted for his no-nonsense quotations about guns and personal defense. If you know of a gun quote from Col. Cooper not listed here, send it to us. (But make SURE it's not already listed. Okay?)

Back to the main Famous Gun Quotes page.

"One cannot legislate the maniacs off the street ... these maniacs can only be shut down by an armed citizenry. Indeed bad things can happen in nations where the citizenry is armed, but not as bad as those which seem to be threatening our disarmed citizenry in this country at this time."

"Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician."

"Remember the first rule of gunfighting ... have a gun."

"The police cannot protect the citizen at this stage of our development, and they cannot even protect themselves in many cases. It is up to the private citizen to protect himself and his family, and this is not only acceptable, but mandatory."

"The will to survive is not as important as the will to prevail ... the answer to criminal aggression is retaliation."

"Safety is something that happens between your ears, not something you hold in your hands."

"All the people constitute the militia - according to the Founding Fathers. Therefore every able-bodied man has a duty under the Constitution to become part of the 'well-regulated' militia, specifically to understand and perform well with the individual weapon currently issued to the regular establishment .... Thus one who has not qualified himself with the M-16 may not be considered to be a responsible citizen."

"Already a couple of the faithful have sent in checks for a foundation memorial to the innocents who perished at the hands of the ninja at Waco ... I have been criticized by referring to our federal masked men as 'ninja' ... Let us reflect upon the fact that a man who covers his face shows reason to be ashamed of what he is doing. A man who takes it upon himself to shed blood while concealing his identity is a revolting perversion of the warrior ethic. It has long been my conviction that a masked man with a gun is a target. I see no reason to change that view."

"One bleeding-heart type asked me in a recent interview if I did not agree that 'violence begets violence.' I told him that it is my earnest endeavor to see that it does. I would like very much to ensure — and in some cases I have — that any man who offers violence to his fellow citizen begets a whole lot more in return than he can enjoy."

"The purpose of the pistol is to stop a fight that somebody else has started, almost always at very short range."

"Bushido is all very well in its way, but it is no match for a 30-06."

"A free man must not be told how to think, either by the government or by social activists. He may certainly be shown the right way, but he must not accept being forced into it."

"The conclusions seem inescapable that in certain circles a tendency has arisen to fear people who fear government. Government, as the Father of Our Country put it so well, is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. People who understand history, especially the history of government, do well to fear it. For a people to express openly their fear of those of us who are afraid of tyranny is alarming. Fear of the state is in no sense subversive. It is, to the contrary, the healthiest political philosophy for a free people."

"Hoplophobia is a mental disturbance characterized by irrational aversion to weapons, as opposed to justified apprehension about those who may wield them."

"The media insist that crime is the major concern of the American public today. In this connection they generally push the point that a disarmed society would be a crime-free society. They will not accept the truth that if you take all the guns off the street you still will have a crime problem, whereas if you take the criminals off the street you cannot have a gun problem."

"In the larger sense, however, the personal ownership of firearms is only secondarily a matter of defense against the criminal. Note the following from Thomas Jefferson: The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government. That is why our masters in Washington are so anxious to disarm us. They are not afraid of criminals. They are afraid of a populace which cannot be subdued by tyrants."

"The 1911 pistol remains the service pistol of choice in the eyes of those who understand the problem. Back when we audited the FBI academy in 1947, I was told that I ought not to use my pistol in their training program because it was not fair. Maybe the first thing one should demand of his sidearm is that it be unfair."

Why not have the Kahr MK40 instead?

Why not a .40?

A lot of the people who are first time concealed carriers these days are old, or female, or small statured, have various physical limitations or some combination of the above, and they are not "gun people.". A subcompact or micro pistol in .40 is a beast as far as recoil and controllability is concerned, some of them are pretty tough even in a detective sized envelope. About the only compact .40 I care for at all is the Beretta Cougar (8040G) for example.

A 9mm on the other hand is generally pretty manageable on those counts however, even for shooters who can't gorilla grip it. And a 9mm in the right place is still an effective self defense round.

I carry both a Glock 19 and the LC9 as the situation dictates. If it's hot and I am dressing without an over shirt, I carry the LC9 in a front pocket. Any other time I wear an over shirt and conceal the Glock. I like the LC9, don't get me wrong, but I feel better with the Glock. Probably because I shoot it better, it carries more ammo and I carry a spare 17 mag with it. If I roll with the LC9, it's just the eight rounds in the LC9.

105 degree Texas summer weather makes wearing an over shirt a serious pain. Those are the times I carry the LC9, when I would be tempted to go without. Only tempted though.

I carry a LC9, with laser max. I really like it. I am able to hit things pretty well for not being a pistol person even without the fancy laser sights, and it's about right as far as kick and size for me. I'm pretty small-framed, though, and all my attempts to skillfully conceal my handgun on my person have failed. Since I refuse to purse carry (most stupid way to carry ever), I've decided to just get a OWB holster and carry more or less open. Since I usually wear longer shirts or a jacket it will still be more or less concealed most of the time anyway.

The LC9 seems to be a good pistol. DW bought one several months ago to upgrade a .380. Only thing I don't like about it as far as the design is concerned is the magazine disconnector. And it's too skinny for my gorilla mitts to find it comfortable. Which means it fits smaller hands better, of course. DW carries hers IWB...

I bought a used S&W J frame in 1965. I've been happy with it but decided to try a auto.
I got a Kimber Solo and a Galico holster. So far I like it better than the 38.

I wonder how fast one can draw from a pocket

AzProtector said:

I wonder how fast one can draw from a pocket

Click to expand...

It depends. Just tooling down the sidewalk, yeah, it will take slightly longer than IWB. If I see trouble coming though, I slip my hand in my pocket. Whole lot faster that way.

Just to throw in an additional option for those who are searching for a small, concealable piece, I carry a Taurus PT709 Slim. It's a 9mm with 7+1 capacity and a manual safety. It's very comfortable to carry IWB and it's less than an inch wide.

I wonder how fast one can draw from a pocket

As with any other form of carry, practice is the key. A good pocket holster is important in keeping the pistol oriented properly in the pocket and retaining it there during normal activities, as well as keeping foreigh items out of the trigger guard that might cause NDs.

And as has been stated, having a hand in a pocket is not seen as a threatening gesture. There's no need to expose any part of the firearm in advance in order to establish a firing grip and be prepared to draw and fire instantly.

And for those in the northern latitudes, coat pocket carry (especially with a hammerless or concealed hammer revolver) in the winter is a fairly common practice among those who consistently go armed. This is the only case IMHO where a pocket holster is an impediment rather than an advantage. And in this case, there should be nothing else carried in the pocket with the revolver. In this case, there is no need to draw at all - just fire through the pocket if the situation requires. With a hammerless or concealed hammer revolver, multiple shots can be fired if necessary without the pocket fouling the function of the firearm, as it would with a semiauto. Practice this with an old coat in advance of need....

Dozdoats said:

Why not a .40?

A lot of the people who are first time concealed carriers these days are old, or female, or small statured, have various physical limitations or some combination of the above, and they are not "gun people.". A subcompact or micro pistol in .40 is a beast as far as recoil and controllability is concerned, some of them are pretty tough even in a detective sized envelope. About the only compact .40 I care for at all is the Beretta Cougar (8040G) for example.

A 9mm on the other hand is generally pretty manageable on those counts however, even for shooters who can't gorilla grip it. And a 9mm in the right place is still an effective self defense round.

Click to expand...

I've got both the mk40 and a glock 26. The mk40 has less recoil because of the weight.

AzProtector said:

I wonder how fast one can draw from a pocket

Click to expand...

I wouldn't even think of carrying in the pocket. No way you're going to get a consistent draw especially under stress. Strong side carry behind the hip is the way I prefer. I didn't get an email ahead of time both times I've had to draw down.

I wouldn't even think of carrying in the pocket.

Then you'd probably be amazed at how many people DO pocket carry. I know a number of them - heck, I'm one of them.

And I've never found it to slow me down appreciably. I'm not saying everyone should pocket carry - people need to do what works best for them after exploring any viable alternatives, then training (with a professional instructor) and practicing their chosen method. I am a firm believer that the stress of a properly run training class, coupled with FOF (force on force) training, is a reasonable preparation of shooter and gear for the street.

Dozdoats said:

I wouldn't even think of carrying in the pocket.

Then you'd probably be amazed at how many people DO pocket carry. I know a number of them - heck, I'm one of them.

And I've never found it to slow me down appreciably. I'm not saying everyone should pocket carry - people need to do what works best for them after exploring any viable alternatives, then training (with a professional instructor) and practicing their chosen method. I am a firm believer that the stress of a properly run training class, coupled with FOF (force on force) training, is a reasonable preparation of shooter and gear for the street.

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Try to draw from a seated position in the car while being carjacked with a pocket holster. Strong side carry behind the hip allows me to draw after I release the seat belt.

When confronted from the front I turn slightly to the right while executing a draw keeping the firearm down to my side. I can then put my left arm in the way if it goes physical and fire from the hip with the right.

Training, been there and done that.

end game said:

Try to draw from a seated position in the car while being carjacked with a pocket holster. Strong side carry behind the hip allows me to draw after I release the seat belt.

When confronted from the front I turn slightly to the right while executing a draw keeping the firearm down to my side. I can then put my left arm in the way if it goes physical and fire from the hip with the right.

Training, been there and done that.

Click to expand...

If you didn't notice a carjacker until he is at the window, unless you carry your gun in your hand, you are shit out of luck. You are generally better off driving away, and increasing distance, than trying to slug it out at bad breath distance while you are stuck in a chair and can't move.

If you do see him coming, you are still probably going to be better off driving away. Time and place, stuck in a car is a bad place all of the time.

I agree about your observations about drawing in a car. I CAN draw from my pocket, but it takes longer. I can imagine where that would hinder me in a carjacking gunfight. I can also imagine some better things to do than get into a shootout from the driver's seat.

I carry a Beretta Nano 9mm in an Alabama Holsters kydex pocket holster or an S&W 638 Airweight in a Ken Campbell leather pocket holster , Both loaded with +Ps and w/2 reloads when I pocket carry. Sometimes I use a Ken Null SMZ for the 638 when I want something different. Either of these guns are carried to back up my primary sometimes I carry both of them when dress will not all my usual primary ,3 mags, and various other goodies plus the back ups.

I like the Kel-Tec PF9. Small, accurate, spare parts are cheap and the weapon breaks down quick and easy.

end game said:

Try to draw from a seated position in the car while being carjacked with a pocket holster. Strong side carry behind the hip allows me to draw after I release the seat belt.

When confronted from the front I turn slightly to the right while executing a draw keeping the firearm down to my side. I can then put my left arm in the way if it goes physical and fire from the hip with the right.

Training, been there and done that.

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I'm the opposite at CQB range I blade my body strong side to the BG single hand moving laterally or diagonally .Always move the draw stroke should be accompanied by movement, get off the damn axis of attack even if it's straight at the bastard, steal his initiative, his precious life's breath and blood because he intends to do that to you.

A car is a 2000 to 4500 pound up to 120 inch caliber slug going up to sixty MPH. The epitome of a one shot stop.

Achilles said:

If you didn't notice a carjacker until he is at the window, unless you carry your gun in your hand, you are shit out of luck. You are generally better off driving away, and increasing distance, than trying to slug it out at bad breath distance while you are stuck in a chair and can't move.

If you do see him coming, you are still probably going to be better off driving away. Time and place, stuck in a car is a bad place all of the time.

I agree about your observations about drawing in a car. I CAN draw from my pocket, but it takes longer. I can imagine where that would hinder me in a carjacking gunfight. I can also imagine some better things to do than get into a shootout from the driver's seat.

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The only use I had for an ankle gun when I worked patrol. When working the books and radio in a 2 man car I could sit where I could draw that airweight faster than my service weapon. The rest of my time the back up was in the left rear pocket, left front, right front , or a shoulder rig. A couple times the back ups where in the duffle bag in the trunk when things got serious and we needed party favors for all. What can I say I entered the LE field in the twilight days of the best times.