HEALTH I think the spread agent for H7N9 is probably rats.

China Connection

TB Fanatic
I had an interesting conversation today. I have mentioned that I think the spread agent for H7N9 is probably rats. Well I talked with a person who is working full time with control measures here on H7N9 who was of the same opinion that it is rats. So chicken are out, rats are in.

Can you get it off chickens? Well if the chickens have been rolling in the ground etc where rats have been then it is probably on their feathers.

So I can't see this problem going away.

Today I bought some freshly killed chickens down the street. They cut the feet off and stuck them in the empty stomach. That is the first time I have seen that done.

Don't bother asking me for more details on who I spoke with!
 

Libbybear

Inactive
Well, If rats are the culprit, then I sure am glad for my outside cats. They will take care of that problem for me if it comes to that.
 

China Connection

TB Fanatic
Libbybear I wish it was so simple. The virus has adapted to mammals. This means that your cat will probably at some stage of the viruses evolution will be able to catch it off a rat it kills and pass it on to you.


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Q226L Signals Recent H7N9 Human Adaptation - Recombinomics
www.recombinomics.com/News/04041301/H7N9_Q226L_Adapt.html‎


Apr 4, 2013 – Webby said the H7N9 viruses are showing changes that are hallmarks of adaptation to mammals, the same types of mutations that have been ...
H7N9 Flu Virus May Have Adapted To Mammals - Huffington Post
www.huffingtonpost.ca/.../h7n9-chinese-avian-flu-mammal-adaptation_...‎


Apr 2, 2013 – Webby said the H7N9 viruses are showing changes that are hallmarks of adaptation to mammals, the same types of mutations that have been ...
Influenza A virus subtype H7N9 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_A_virus_subtype_H7N9‎


An H7N9 virus was first reported to have infected humans in 2013 in China. .... bird flu characteristics, whereas this H7N9 shows some adaptation to mammals.
Background and summary of human infection with influenza A(H7N9)
www.who.int/influenza/human_animal_interface/...h7n9/.../index.html‎


The influenza A(H7N9) virus is one subgroup among the larger group of H7 ... These adaptations include an ability to bind to mammalian cell receptors, and to ...
Avian influenza A (H7N9) virus - 2013's bird flu - on VDU
www.uq.edu.au/vdu/VDUInfluenza_H7N9.htm‎


2 days ago – Important genetic changes, adaptation or mutations in H7N9. ..... virus(both the mammalian [sialyl-a2,6-gal-] and avian [sialyl-a2,3-gal-] forms), ...
Two more H7N9 cases cited; virus may be adapting to mammals
www.cidrap.umn.edu › AVIAN INFLUENZA › NEWS‎


Apr 3, 2013 – The H7N9 virus is an avian subtype that has never been found in ... "These adaptations include an ability to bind to mammalian cells, and to ...
(H7N9 watch) Flu expert suspects killer virus has already adapted to ...
www.thestandard.com.hk/breaking_news_detail.asp?id=34257‎


Webby said the H7N9 viruses are showing changes that are hallmarks of adaptation to mammals, the same types of mutations that have been seen when other ...
TWiV 230: Gene goes to Washington, flu chickens out
www.twiv.tv/2013/.../twiv-230-gene-goes-to-washington-flu-chickens-o...‎


Apr 28, 2013 – “H7N9 is all about mammalian adaptation via SINGLE NUCLEOTIDE POLYMORPHISMS, especially those in and around the RECEPTOR ...
Guiding outbreak management by the use of ... - Eurosurveillance
www.eurosurveillance.org/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleId=20460‎
by M Jonges


Apr 18, 2013 – However, in response to the detection of the influenza A(H7N9) virus .... the mammalian adaptation markers are selected during replication in ...
HPA - Avian Influenza News 2013
www.hpa.org.uk › ... › Avian Influenza › Avian Influenza News‎


May 7, 2013 – Preliminary analyses have indicated that influenza A(H7N9) possess certain changes associated with mammalian adaptation, reinforcing the ...
 

Scarletbreasted

Galloping geriatric
Libbybear:

You are aware perhaps that the Great plague in England and Europe was carried by rats??

Your cats would be one of the carriers of the host more than likely"
sb
 

China Connection

TB Fanatic
Bubonic plague - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubonic_plague‎
Carried by the fleas on rats, the plague initially spread to humans near the Black Sea and then outwards to the rest of Europe as a result of people fleeing from ...
Black Death - Plague doctor costume - Septicemic plague - Marmot
Black Death study lets rats off the hook | World news | The Guardian
www.guardian.co.uk › World news › Animals‎


Aug 17, 2011 – Plague of 1348-49 spread so fast in London the carriers had to be humans not black rats, says archaeologist.
The Black Death of 1348 to 1350 - History Learning Site
www.historylearningsite.co.uk › Medieval England‎


The Black Death is the name given to a disease called the bubonic plague ... The Black Death was caused by fleas carried by rats that were very common in ...
Bubonic Plague - Information About Bubonic Plague
rarediseases.about.com › ... › Bubonic Plague and Pictures‎


Bubonic plague is not usually spread from person to person. Small rodents, such as rats, mice and squirrels, carry the infection. Fleas that live on these animals ...
Plague - Vermont Department of Health
healthvermont.gov/prevent/Plague.aspx‎


Rats, wild rodents, cats, and dogs can become infected with plague and the disease is occasionally ... Bubonic plague is rarely spread from person-to-person.
Can We Stop Blaming Rats for the Black Death? — History in the ...
www.history.com/news/can-we-stop-blaming-rats-for-the-black-death‎


Aug 18, 2011 – A new study suggests that humans, not vermin, spread the Black ... of the bubonic plague, which is transmitted by rats and fleas, the Black ...
TED Cast Study Bubonic Plague
www1.american.edu/TED/bubonic.htm‎


Between 1339 and 1351 AD, a pandemic of plague traveled from China to Europe, known in Western history as The Black Death. Carried by rats and fleas along ...
Plague rat experiment - Timewatch - BBC - YouTube
www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDwiLdEKyu0‎


Sep 6, 2010 – Suspecting that the Black Death was being spread by rat fleas, a brilliant ... obviously humans were able to spread the plague around in fleas ...
Rats not responsible for black plague - ZME Science
www.zmescience.com › Research › Studies‎
by andrei mihai - in 150 Google+ circles


Aug 18, 2011 – A recent study has shown that the plague spread so quickly that the carriers couldn't have been rats, as is commonly believed. The black ...
Bubonic Plague Spread - Plague - eMedTV
plague.emedtv.com/bubonic-plague/bubonic-plague-spread.html‎
As this eMedTV Web page explains, the spread of bubonic plague occurs ... most commonly in rats, but occasionally in other wild animals, such as prairie dogs.
 

Mysty

Veteran Member
:( I was really hoping it wouldn't be rats / mice. Of all the things that could carry it, that would be about the worst.
 

Mixin

Veteran Member
China Connection:
Do you have any scientific evidence to back up your theory? I'm not aware of any rat testing.
 

China Connection

TB Fanatic
No but logic points towards it. The virus mutations take time and they are mammalian so the question is what mammal hangs out in markets here in China besides man. Rats are the only residents that stay on location all the time. Rats would also get into old homes etc. As I said I met a person employed on H7N9 control who also believes the same as I do.
 

China Connection

TB Fanatic
Well most viruses hang out in the colon besides the blood. So rat poo would be full of the virus. Example below:

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Clean up your toxic colon

A surprising little fact in research has shown that nearly 80% of the HIV virus is located in the digestive system, mainly in the small and large intestines.
For anyone who's a bit familiar with the workings of our bodies, that shouldn't come as a surprise. After all, the digestive tract from end to end is the main entry point of invasive microbes, and the intestines is where blood exchanges nutrients and waste products. Our immune defenses are mostly concentrated along the digestive tract and hence, HIV, which attacks the immune system, will be "hanging out" there too.

Another fact is that HIV, like other anaerobic viruses and bacteria, cannot live or reproduce in an extreme alkaline or acidic environment, or for that matter, in an oxygenated environment. By alkalizing your diet, you will be killing off HIV (and other microbes).

Detoxing the colon and small intestines will free up your immune defense resources to fight HIV. Here's a daily "beginners" routine for natural support for HIV/AIDS:


Vinegar Apple Cider Vinegar - or any vinegar 3 tablespoons a day. Or try vinegar enemas: 3 tablespoons in a liter of sterilized (boiled) water. Do the enema as often as once a day, but 3 times a week is also sufficient.

Garlic is a natural antibiotic, and taking 3 cloves a day, preferably raw, will do wonders for intestinal health.

Probiotics Support your immune system by regularly taking live yogurt, especially after you've been on a round of antibiotics.

Cultured Cabbage Juice Prepare a sterilized 1 or 2 liter glass jar or mason jar. Shred some cabbage and stuff as much as you can into the jar. Fill the jar with water and shut the lid on tight. Leave it outside the fridge. Wait 3 days. The cabbage should have a sour taste (not a rotten one - if prepared wrongly!). Drink 1/2 or 1 cup of the juice daily. Like yogurt, you can use 1/4 cup of the old batch as a starter for the next batch.

Coconut oil Research in the Philippines by Dr Conrato S Dayrit says "coconut oil does have an anti-viral effect and can beneficially reduce the viral load of HIV patients." Use it in daily cooking and take 6-12 tablespoons a day.

Psyllium husk fiber is an excellent bowel cleanser. Psyllium husk normalizes bowel movement and absorbs toxins as it passes through the intestines.

Water Drink plenty of water daily, 2-4 liters, in order to keep your digestive system working well.

Good nutrition plays a big part in fighting HIV. Eat well and eat fresh fruits and veggies to maximize micronutrient intake.


Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/031914_colon_health_AIDS.html#ixzz2TmPju3R7
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
I had an interesting conversation today. I have mentioned that I think the spread agent for H7N9 is probably rats. Well I talked with a person who is working full time with control measures here on H7N9 who was of the same opinion that it is rats. So chicken are out, rats are in.

Can you get it off chickens? Well if the chickens have been rolling in the ground etc where rats have been then it is probably on their feathers.

So I can't see this problem going away.

Today I bought some freshly killed chickens down the street. They cut the feet off and stuck them in the empty stomach. That is the first time I have seen that done.

Don't bother asking me for more details on who I spoke with!

There's another route between chickens and rats; chicken droppings. The digestive system of a chicken is so inefficient that its droppings can actually be used as cattle feed.

The Use of Chicken Manure/Litter in Animal Feed
http://www.pickle-publishing.com/papers/chicken-litter-animal-feed.htm
 

Mixin

Veteran Member
No but logic points towards it. The virus mutations take time and they are mammalian so the question is what mammal hangs out in markets here in China besides man. Rats are the only residents that stay on location all the time. Rats would also get into old homes etc. As I said I met a person employed on H7N9 control who also believes the same as I do.

We have kicked this idea around for several years but so far, there is no scientific evidence that rats transmit flu. There are no rat sequences at Genbank and apparently none are tested.

H5N1 can be passed in fecal samples in waterfowl but I've not seen any evidence of H7N9 being any more than a respiratory virus in humans. I've never seen any human fecal samples taken; all that I've seen are from the upper/lower respiratory systems. If you've seen something to the contrary, please post it.

I need to clarify this a bit. H7N9 is a bird flu; so they can pass it in fecal matter. The birds won't need rats to spread this.
 

China Connection

TB Fanatic
Hantavirus
Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome; Hemorrhagic fever with renal syndrome

Last reviewed: March 11, 2011.

Hantavirus is a life-threatening disease spread to humans by rodents that has symptoms similar to influenza.
Causes, incidence, and risk factors

Hantavirus is carried by rodents, especially deer mice. The virus is found in their urine and feces, but it does not make the animal sick.

It is believed that humans can get sick with this virus if they come in contact with contaminated dust from mice nests or droppings. You may come in contact with such dust when cleaning homes, sheds, or other enclosed areas that have been empty for a long time.

Hantavirus does not spread between humans.

Rodents carrying the hantavirus have been found in many U.S. national parks. Campers and hikers may be more likely to catch the disease than most people. This is because they pitch tents on the forest floor and lay their sleeping bags down in musty cabins.

However, only a couple of cases have been directly linked to camping or hiking. Most people who are exposed to the virus have come in contact with rodent droppings in their own homes.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002358/

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The objective of this study was to investigate the pathogenicity and associated lesions of a new reovirus (ReoV) isolated from patients with Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) in China. Twenty-five four-week-old BALB/c female mice inoculated intranasally with either ReoV (strain BYD1) alone, or ReoV combined with SARS-CoV (strain BJF) displayed ejecting fur and loss of body weight compared with control animals. ReoV and SARS-CoV were isolated from most postmortem tissues. The histopathological features of ReoV infected animals consisted of diffuse alveolar damage, with scattered hemorrhage, hyaline membrane formation and interstitial pneumonia. A typical type II pneumocyte hyperplasia and fibrogranulomatous tissue formation in the alveolar septae were observed both in the animals inoculated simultaneously with these two viruses and in the animals inoculated firstly with SARS-CoV, followed by ReoV. The animals inoculated firstly with ReoV, followed with SARS-CoV displayed scattered hemorrhage in the alveolar septa. Furthermore, other lesions in above two combination groups included depletion of lymphocytes in the germinal center of lymph nodes in the lung hilus and the spleen, hemorrhagic necrosis in white pulp of spleen, hydroid degeneration, and fatty degeneration in the liver and kidney. Mice induced with SARS-CoV alone did not display clinical signs, characteristically hyaline membrane formation, hemorrhage and early pulmonary fibrosis in lung tissue. This study demonstrated that the newly isolated ReoV might be a virulent pathogen for BALB/c mice. Mice infected firstly with SARS-CoV, followed with ReoV developed a typical diffuse alveolar lesion.

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/expanim/55/5/55_5_439/_article
 
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China Connection

TB Fanatic
Is H7N9 Spreading from Human to Human in China?
H5N2 outbreak - not found in rodents or wild birds


http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.230...21102161564147

However, this second study has a number of interesting points in the discussion.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0039206

Low-Pathogenic Avian Influenza Viruses in Wild House Mice

Discussion

This study provides evidence that avian influenza viruses may be naturally transmitted to mice at outbreak sites and that wild house mice can efficiently replicate avian influenza viruses without prior adaptation. Even though our sample size was low and we were sampling nearly a month after the outbreak was first detected, the house mice in our mammal survey at the Idaho outbreak site showed a positive response for influenza A antibodies. We recommend that future outbreaks allow for significant rodent sampling on the premises as soon as an outbreak is detected to further our understanding of the role rodents may play in avian influenza dynamics at outbreak sites. Furthermore, low sera sample volumes for the mice prevented us from subtyping the samples, which may have provided stronger support for past avian influenza virus infection. The ELISA used in this study was type-specific for antibodies to influenza A; therefore we cannot rule out that the mice may have been infected with a mammalian influenza strain rather than an avian strain. However, the outbreak farm housed only birds so the probability of the presence of a mammalian influenza strain was likely to be lower than for an avian strain.

Few studies have explored the seroprevalence of avian influenza viruses in synanthropic wildlife at outbreak sites and active areas of infection. Exceptions are surveys by Nettles et al. [55], Henzler et al. [56], and Shortridge et al. [57]. In the first study more than 250 mice and rats from infected farms were sampled after a 1983–84 outbreak of H5N2 virus in domestic poultry in the eastern U.S. No evidence for influenza infection was found in the rodents. However, rodent sampling was conducted 2–3 months post-outbreak, which is relatively late given the monthly survival rate of mice on farms can be as low as 0.55 [58]. Henzler et al. also surveyed mice on poultry farms during an outbreak of H7N2 in poultry in Pennsylvania, U.S. from 1996–1998. Lung and intestinal tissues were tested by virus isolation and all samples were found to be negative. In the Shortridge et al. study, mice and rats associated with poultry markets in Hong Kong were surveyed for exposure to avian influenza viruses after the initial detection of Asian strain H5N1 virus. Again, no virus was isolated from either rodent species, but rats showed evidence of hemagglutination inhibition activity and the ability of both mice and rats to replicate the H5N1 virus was subsequently confirmed [30].

A potential caveat with regard to mammalian sero-surveys is that many assays developed to detect antibodies to avian influenza viruses are optimized for poultry species and may not be validated for other species. Consequently, assay sensitivity and specificity may not be consistent with published parameters. Further, a number of commercial enzyme-linked immunosorbent assays (ELISAs) developed for detection of antibodies to avian influenza viruses use anti-mouse antigens and may not be appropriate for rodents. Hemagluttination inhibition (HI) tests may also be problematic as mouse sera may cause non-specific binding that interferes with HI tests [59]. Only a third of the mice tested in this study were positive for antibodies to avian influenza virus. Further work needs to be done to elucidate whether mice lacking an ELISA response would be protected upon re-exposure to influenza virus.

Rodents could contribute to avian influenza virus transmission on and among farms in a number of ways. Mice and rats could spread virus via mechanical transmission [60]. Alternatively, they could contribute to viral spread by becoming infected via scavenging on infected poultry carcasses [2] or by contact with contaminated water sources [61] and subsequently transmitting virus if they are scavenged or predated. Mice are a very common prey species for a variety of raptors, meso-predators, and other mammalian carnivores and are also commonly eaten by barnyard chickens. The high concentrations of viral RNA detected in the lungs of experimentally infected house mice indicate that wild mice may have the potential to replicate sufficient virus for transmission to other species.

We tested five subtypes of avian influenza virus in order to compare the replication potential of subtypes derived from both wild birds and chickens. Our results indicate that wild mice were able to more efficiently replicate viruses originating from wild birds than from poultry. Viral RNA was detected in 94% of lung, 86% of nasal turbinate, and 78% of trachea tissues from mice inoculated with wild bird viruses compared with 51% of lung, 44% of nasal turbinate, and 20% of trachea tissues from mice inoculated with chicken viruses. Given the wide range of replication potential for different avian influenza virus subtypes and different strains within subtypes, this pattern of higher viral replication of wild bird viruses compared with poultry viruses may be due to chance. Further study is needed to confirm this general result, but if the pattern holds, it may indicate that mice are more likely to introduce an avian influenza strain from wild birds to poultry than to spread poultry viruses among and between farms.

Studying wild house mice rather than laboratory mice is essential to understanding the potential role that mice may play in avian influenza virus outbreak dynamics because wild house mice and laboratory mice may exhibit differential immune function [42]. Standard laboratory mice, including BALB/c mice, have a defective Mx1 gene (Mx1−) that reduces their ability to resist influenza virus infections [62], [63], [64], [65]. On the other hand, wild mice with an intact Mx1 gene (Mx1+) are resistant to influenza virus infection [63], [64]. Consequently, the results of studies based on experimental infections of laboratory mice may not accurately reflect viral replication in wild mice. In addition to differing genetics, natural populations of wild mice are likely to include a broad spectrum of heterogeneities that might influence viral replication. For example, sex, age, reproductive status, behavior, nutritional condition, disease status, and parasite load are all likely to affect immune function [42], [43], [66]. In this study, wild house mice were fed standard laboratory diets for 2–5 weeks prior to testing and were dusted for parasites, so individual differences due to nutritional status or parasite loads were likely diminished. However, we were able to evaluate sex and found that female mice exhibited higher viral replication rates compared to males. While none of the females in this study were pregnant at the time of inoculation, a few individuals gave birth during the quarantine period and a range of hormonal conditions were likely. Previous studies of influenza in mice indicate that morbidity, mortality, and viral loads are higher for pregnant females compared with non-pregnant controls [67], [68]. Differential replication rates may be important to consider in the development of risk assessment and transmission models because individuals with higher viral loads may be more likely to cause an infection post contact with a potential host. If so, the basic reproductive number, or the mean number of secondary infections caused by an infected individual, may be different for males and females and that difference might be important in epidemiologic models.

In summary, the ability of wild mice to efficiently replicate avian influenza viruses without adaptation indicates the potential role of wild house mice in avian influenza virus outbreak dynamics and warrants further investigation. In particular, studies that seek to confirm the presence of avian influenza virus antibodies, detect virus, or examine the ability of mice to transmit virus to other species would shed light on whether or not rodent control is an important strategy for avian influenza virus outbreak control.
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Where I got this article: http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?p=493741
 
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