ENVR Wildfire is Mother Nature's way of thinning the forest.

Troke

Deceased
[Scanned 9/18/2012, pA15]

By Terry L. Anderson
Bozeman, Mont.

When the wildfires that are burning millions of acres in the West are finally smothered by winter snows, environmentalists undoubtedly will blame climate change. They might look in the mirror instead. Environmental laws since the 1970s require public input into federal land-use decisions including logging on national forests. This has led to lawsuits challenging efforts by the U.S. Forest Service to prevent forest fires by thinning out trees (most of which are dead or diseased) and brush by machines and carefully controlled burns. This dead wood is the fuel that feeds catastrophic wildfires.

Removing the fuel reduces the likelihood of fires, and if fires do break out, makes them easier to fight. Meanwhile, the suppression of fires costs the federal government nearly $2.5 billion annually. A fuels-management project to log and thin 4,800, acres in the Bozeman, Mont., watershed exemplifies the problem. This project has been held up since 2010 on grounds that the environmental-impact assessment did not adequately protect the habitat of the Canadian lynx and the grizzly bear, both listed as threatened species.

Now a wildfire threatens the watershed, burning over 10,000 acres and costing more than $2 million to fight. As one firefighter put it, “fire is the environmentalist’s way of thinning the forests.” Jack Ward Thomas, President Clinton’s forest service chief, noted a few years ago that court battles have tied the agency in a “Gordian knot” creating a “vicious cycle of increasing costs, time delays, and inability to carry out management actions.” As a result, most national forests are a tinder box of old-growth trees ravaged by disease and insects.

Making matters worse, dense conifer canopies intercept rain and snow, with 30% lost to evaporadon instead of soaking into the ground or flowing into rivers. When a little rain fell on the Bozeman fire on Aug. 31, the Forest Service reported that it was caught in the tree tops and quickly evaporated. An estimate by Wesleyan University’s Helen Poulos and James Workman for California’s Sierra Nevada Mountain Range puts the annual water loss due to evaporation at more than five trillion gallons. That is enough to supply Los Angeles for 26 years.

Forest fires also contribute significantly to atmospheric carbon. A 2007 study by the federally funded Center for Atmospheric Research found that “large wildfires in the western United States can pump as much carbon dioxide into the atmosphere in just a few weeks as cars do in those areas in an entire year.” Scientists at Stanford University and the National Snow and Ice Data Center believe that carbon soot from wildflres is adding to the greenhouse effect and contributing to this summer’s unusual thaw in the Arctic and Greenland.

Cutting the “Gordian knot” is necessary if the Forest Service is to properly manage national forest assets and reduce wildfires A start would be to require environmental groups to post a sizable bond when they file lawsuits. If the area burns while the suit is in the courts, the bond would be forfeited to defray firefighting costs. This would allow public involvement through judicial review but hold opponents accountable. This might lead to a more responsible form of environmentalism.

This guy mis-apprehends. The clink of silver will not be heard in God's temple. The environmentalists have no interest in any commercial enterprise involving the public forests. They are sacred grounds and commerce will be banned. Thinning is allowed, provided the taxpayers pay for it.
 

Troke

Deceased
Unless the wildfire is set on purpose...

It would go nowhere unless the forest was 'ripe'. And one lightening strike would take care of that. All one had to do is drive through Col in the last couple of years. 100's of miles of dead and dying trees. My DS was with me, took one look and said, 'We get a lightening storm, I am outa here." It was ready to explode. If arson did it, all it did was accelerate a process that was inevitable.
 

Halfdar

Cold and pissy
It is unfortunate that these basic principles were not understood until recently, in a widespread sort of way. Smokey the Bear and the associated campaigns did a great deal to infuse the populace with the whole 'fire in forest=bad' meme. Perhaps the determination of the Forest Service to actively fight fires in the woods is what has prompted rich, foolish people to build large homes in inaccessible areas, right in the trees, knowing that their home will be saved.....
 

marsh

On TB every waking moment
This is a topic in which I am heavily involved. I am working with several groups politicaly to introduce legislation to address this issue. The National Forests have been terribly mismanaged. Because of environmental bans on harvest, they are dramaticaly overstocked and no longer capable of safely carrying fire. Huge fires are increasingly permanently destroying our forests, watershed health and rural communities. The left likes to blame "rich people" for encroaching on forest land, but that is hardly the case in the thousands of small communities devastated by wildfire in the west. (I have heard many incredibly ignorant statements from Democrat Congressmen blaming residents for the fires instead of the Forest Service and Congress, where the mismanagement lies.) Environmentalists benefit through perverse legislation called EAJA (Equal Access to Justice Act) where public funds go to pay expensive costs of environmental attorneys to litigate on every technical flaw in environmental impact statements that accompany an attempted project.

http://www.youtube.com/user/RethinkForests?blend=1&ob=5#p/a/u/0/-KtiePo1uxY
Use It or Lose It

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Srvf...list=ULC0l8dP-yXjo&lf=mfu_in_order&playnext=3
Managed Forests

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmNRaKlQ0yM&feature=bf_next&list=UL-KtiePo1uxY&lf=mfu_in_order
Wild Fire and Climate Change

House committee on Natural Resources hearings on wildfire
http://naturalresources.house.gov/calendar/eventsingle.aspx?EventID=303188
http://naturalresources.house.gov/calendar/eventsingle.aspx?EventID=298882
http://naturalresources.house.gov/calendar/eventsingle.aspx?EventID=295110
http://naturalresources.house.gov/calendar/eventsingle.aspx?EventID=293546

http://evergreenmagazine.com/web/De...utm_term=Death+Of+A+Forest+Why+We+Should+Care

Death Of A Forest: Why we Should Care California wildfires also permanently deforested 882,759 acres of public and private land during the seven years covered by this study. Permanently deforested means burned forests that cannot recover naturally due to the lack of seed trees. Trees were planted on only 120,755 acres. As a result, California's forests are disappearing at the rate of 109,000 acres each year, and the greenhouse gases they emitted from wildfires will stay in the atmosphere for centuries.... I also used FCEM to look at the bigger picture by estimating seven years of combustion and post-fir decay emissions from wildfires for the entire state of California. The results show that greenhouse gas emissions were the equivalent of driving 50 million cars for one year. There are only 14 million cars on California's highways. That means they would all have to be taken off the road and locked in a garage for 3 1/2 years to make up for accumulated emissions of just a few years of California's wildfires.

http://media.wix.com/ugd/b55c09_9fb65cc655930d2a802b927c332fd1c3.pdf?dn=UncertainTrumpet.pdf
The Future of the National Forests – Who Will Answer an Uncertain Trumpet? By Jack Ward Thomas, PhD


http://users.sisqtel.net/armstrng/wild_fire.htm
http://users.sisqtel.net/armstrng/forests.htm
 

Hognutz

TB Fanatic
The native Americans used to regularly burn for eons. Before then it was lightning and such. Only modern man could screw something up so bad.......
 

homecanner1

Veteran Member
Drought and locust plagues are mother nature's way of thinning prairie herds too. Witness the devastation wrought on Christmas Tree Farms, all thru the midwest. The peach harvest in downstate Illinois was a month early and far smaller, less robust. This is without saboteurs like poisoned wells from fracking or the New Madrid getting triggered either. No body is coming thru the earthchanges unscathed Troke. What is done to harmless nature comes back around tenfold eventually.
 

kittyluvr

Veteran Member
This is a topic in which I am heavily involved. I am working with several groups politicaly to introduce legislation to address this issue. The National Forests have been terribly mismanaged. Because of environmental bans on harvest, they are dramaticaly overstocked and no longer capable of safely carrying fire. Huge fires are increasingly permanently destroying our forests, watershed health and rural communities. The left likes to blame "rich people" for encroaching on forest land, but that is hardly the case in the thousands of small communities devastated by wildfire in the west. (I have heard many incredibly ignorant statements from Democrat Congressmen blaming residents for the fires instead of the Forest Service and Congress, where the mismanagement lies.) Environmentalists benefit through perverse legislation called EAJA (Equal Access to Justice Act) where public funds go to pay expensive costs of environmental attorneys to litigate on every technical flaw in environmental impact statements that accompany an attempted project.

http://www.youtube.com/user/RethinkForests?blend=1&ob=5#p/a/u/0/-KtiePo1uxY
Use It or Lose It

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Srvf...list=ULC0l8dP-yXjo&lf=mfu_in_order&playnext=3
Managed Forests

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmNRaKlQ0yM&feature=bf_next&list=UL-KtiePo1uxY&lf=mfu_in_order
Wild Fire and Climate Change

House committee on Natural Resources hearings on wildfire
http://naturalresources.house.gov/calendar/eventsingle.aspx?EventID=303188
http://naturalresources.house.gov/calendar/eventsingle.aspx?EventID=298882
http://naturalresources.house.gov/calendar/eventsingle.aspx?EventID=295110
http://naturalresources.house.gov/calendar/eventsingle.aspx?EventID=293546

http://evergreenmagazine.com/web/De...utm_term=Death+Of+A+Forest+Why+We+Should+Care

Death Of A Forest: Why we Should Care California wildfires also permanently deforested 882,759 acres of public and private land during the seven years covered by this study. Permanently deforested means burned forests that cannot recover naturally due to the lack of seed trees. Trees were planted on only 120,755 acres. As a result, California's forests are disappearing at the rate of 109,000 acres each year, and the greenhouse gases they emitted from wildfires will stay in the atmosphere for centuries.... I also used FCEM to look at the bigger picture by estimating seven years of combustion and post-fir decay emissions from wildfires for the entire state of California. The results show that greenhouse gas emissions were the equivalent of driving 50 million cars for one year. There are only 14 million cars on California's highways. That means they would all have to be taken off the road and locked in a garage for 3 1/2 years to make up for accumulated emissions of just a few years of California's wildfires.

http://media.wix.com/ugd/b55c09_9fb65cc655930d2a802b927c332fd1c3.pdf?dn=UncertainTrumpet.pdf
The Future of the National Forests – Who Will Answer an Uncertain Trumpet? By Jack Ward Thomas, PhD


http://users.sisqtel.net/armstrng/wild_fire.htm
http://users.sisqtel.net/armstrng/forests.htm

Marsh, the other problem we encounter here in the Sierras with the Forest Service is when they finally do some burning to thin the underbrush, they inevitably do it in the middle of summer on a windy day as they are only concerned about air quality and not the possibility of their "controlled burn" getting out of control. It just makes you wonder...
 

China Connection

TB Fanatic
In Australia the Aborigines used to buy off regularly on a planned basis. You don't burn then you get too much dead material accumulating so that when it does catch alight the fire temperature goes up much higher and the trees are totally killed. Regular burns keep the temperatures down to where everything regenerates.


Um, the other thing is when they burn off the Aborigines start fires every say 100 meters. There is no big fire front just small fires that burn inwards. This prevents high heats from forming.
 

cleobc

Veteran Member
Forest grazing used to keep underbrush down so that fires did not start so easily or become so devastating, but grazing has been villainized by enviros too. Ansel Adams took many photographs of forest areas being grazed and in beautiful condition. Now you never see those photographs, because his photographs are used as a tool to convince people that an empty landscape is the best landscape.
 

homecanner1

Veteran Member
I should have added above that I agree wholeheartedly that the underbrush and deadwood in the national forests is long overdue for pruning. We have prison populations that could do that. Or perhaps some inventive CCC type make work program in a future administration. God knows we used unemployed to plant the forests in the great depression. Time to prune them as the fire hazard situation is growing perilous. The summer drought has really played havoc with nature here in the midwest. Kane County Forest preserve is asking homeowners to DONATE their acorns from their yards, as this year's seedlings were harmed. http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/09/21/kane-county-forest-preserve-looks-for-acorn-donations/
 

Sleeping Cobra

TB Fanatic
I should have added above that I agree wholeheartedly that the underbrush and deadwood in the national forests is long overdue for pruning. We have prison populations that could do that. Or perhaps some inventive CCC type make work program in a future administration. God knows we used unemployed to plant the forests in the great depression. Time to prune them as the fire hazard situation is growing perilous. The summer drought has really played havoc with nature here in the midwest. Kane County Forest preserve is asking homeowners to DONATE their acorns from their yards, as this year's seedlings were harmed. http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/09/21/kane-county-forest-preserve-looks-for-acorn-donations/

How to Grow Oak Trees From Acorns : How to Do an Oak Tree Acorn Float Test

 

Flippper

Time Traveler
The native Americans used to regularly burn for eons. Before then it was lightning and such. Only modern man could screw something up so bad.......

You beat me to it, they would go through and get the fire to burn the underbrush so deer, elk and bear could get through and away from predators, also to ensure if a fire did go through, it wouldn't be so devastating that it destroyed their home area. Also, there are some pine cones that only open when they reach a certain heat level, which is not high enough to incinerate the pine cone but hotter than can be reached without fire.

The gubmint is rife with globalists who want humans and all traces of them to be eradicated, in the guise of "rewilding". What they don't understand is, the globalists want everything dead so they can start over when they are reincarnated and do it 'right', which is what the seed banks in the arctic are for.
 
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