REL GENRL ‘Cross-Dressing Clergy’: These Are the Reasons the Episcopal Church Could Be Near Collapse

TerryK

TB Fanatic
Cross-Dressing Clergy’: These Are the Reasons the Episcopal Church Could Be Near Collapse
  • Posted on July 13, 2012 at 8:20am by
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    Guest Post
Editor’s Note: This is a crosspost from Beliefnet.com. It was composed by Rob Kerby, Senior Editor, Beliefnet.
The headlines coming out of the Episcopal Church’s annual U.S. convention are stunning — endorsement of cross-dressing clergy, blessing same-sex marriage, the sale of their headquarters since they can’t afford to maintain it.
The American branch of the Church of England, founded when the Vatican balked at permitting King Henry VIII to continue annulling marriages to any wife who failed to bear him sons, is in trouble.
(Related: Episcopal Bishops Approve Trial Blessing for Gay Couples & Clear the Way for Transgender Ordination)
Somehow slipping out of the headlines is a harsh reality that the denomination has been deserted in droves by an angry or ambivalent membership. Six prominent bishops are ready to take their large dioceses out of the American church and align with conservative Anglican groups in Africa and South America.
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Above: Bonnie Anderson, President of the House of Deputies

“An interesting moment came at a press conference on Saturday,” reports convention attendee David Virtue, “when I asked Bonnie Anderson, president of the House of Deputies, if she saw the irony in that the House of Deputies would like to see the Church Center at 815 2nd Avenue, New York, sold (it has a $37.5 million mortgage debt and needs $8.5 million to maintain yearly) while at the same time the national church spent $18 million litigating for properties, many of which will lie fallow at the end of the day.”
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Above: “Church Center,” the Episcopal headquarters, up for sale.

This is no longer George Washington’s Episcopal Church – in 1776 the largest denomination in the rebellious British colonies. Membership has dropped so dramatically that today there are 20 times more Baptists than Episcopalians.
U.S. Catholics out-number the Episcopal Church 33-to-1. There are more Jews than Episcopalians. Twice as many Mormons. Even the little African Methodist Episcopal denomination — which broke away after the Civil War — has passed the Episcopalians.
Among the old mainstream denominations reporting to the National Council of Churches, the Episcopal Church suffered the worst loss of membership from 1992-2002 — plunging from 3.4 million members to 2.3 million for a 32 percent loss. In the NCC’s 2012 yearbook, the Episcopal Church admitted another 2.71 percent annual membership loss.
Convention attendees were told that they had spent $18 million this year suing their own local congregations — those which have protested the denomination’s policies by trying to secede. The New York hierarchy has consistently won in court – asserting that the local members signed over their buildings decades ago. As a result, some of the largest Episcopal congregations in the United States have been forced to vacate their buildings and meet elsewhere.
So now, convention delegates were told, the denomination is the proud owner of scores of empty buildings nationwide – and liable for their upkeep in a depressed real estate market where empty church buildings are less than prime property. It’s the classic “dog in a manger.” The denomination has managed to keep the buildings – for which it has little use. However, they made their point – refusing to allow the congregations which built the facilities to have any benefit after generations of sacrifice, donations and volunteerism.
“One former Episcopal priest wrote me, ‘The irony is that after all their property suits to get control of empty buildings, they now are losing their main property.’
“But this cost-cutting measure may not be enough to salvage the long term solvency of the Episcopal Church. The church is hemorrhaging money like crazy and no one seems to know how to turn off the spigot.”
“The accelerating fragmentation of the strife-torn Episcopal Church USA,” writes Christian author Charlotte Allen, “in which large parishes and entire dioceses are opting out of the church, isn’t simply about gay bishops, the blessing of same-sex unions or the election of a woman as presiding bishop. It is about the meltdown of liberal Christianity.”
“Liberal Christianity has been hailed by its boosters for 40 years as the future of the Christian church. Instead, as all but a few die-hards now admit, the mainline churches that have blurred doctrine and softened moral precepts are declining and, in the case of the Episcopal Church, disintegrating.”
“On July 8, 2012, Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori preached her brand of post-Christian religion while masquerading as a Christian bishop,” reported convention attendee Dr. Sarah Frances Ives.
“She mocked most of the crucial doctrines of the Christian faith, including the God of creation, the Incarnation, and the Trinity. She accomplishes this through her demeaning use of rhetoric. She taunts the Lord by the use of the name ‘Big Man’ and then points her finger at everyone listening and tells them that they have ‘missed the boat.’
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Above: Katharine Jefferts Schori, national presiding bishop

“Jefferts Schori then proclaims that she has the answer for this. We all need the ‘act of crossing boundaries’ to become God after which our hands become a ‘sacrament of mission.’​
“In this sermon, Jefferts Schori continued her mission of destroying the Christian faith through her rhetorical device of dismissive ridicule.
“Jefferts Schori leaves a wide wake of destruction behind with this sermon: the eternal triune God has been torn down, human beings are to boldly claim our place as God, and the sacraments of the Eucharist and Baptism have been turned into things our hands make. In other words, Jefferts Schori accepts that now humanity, animals and God are one undifferentiated blob. This is essentially a form of solipsism, the belief that self is all that is known to exist. Anyone can see that this is both pure heresy and utter nonsense.
“Episcopalians need to loudly affirm that we are created in the image of God and redeemed by the sacrifice of the Son of God, but no, we are not God ourselves and we are not erasing the boundary between God and humanity. That Jefferts Schori is encouraging humans to cross the frontier into becoming God should be immediately repudiated by all believing Christians.”
“Yesterday,” reported Angela O’Brien from the convention, “the House of Bishops of the Episcopalian Church approved a new provisional blessing for gay unions, while the full General Convention voted in favor of general acceptance for transgender clergy.
“Some Episcopalian bishops spoke out against the resolution on same-sex blessings. Bishop Bauerschmidt, of the Episcopal Diocese of Tennessee, urged the bishops to defeat the resolution.
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“The Reverend David Thurlow advocated rejecting the resolution. ‘For two thousand years the Church has had clear teaching regarding Christian marriage and Biblical norms of sexual behavior,’ he said, pointing out that ‘through previous statements and resolutions the Church has pledged itself not to make any change to this traditional teaching.’

Likewise, Bishop Edward Little of Northern Indiana stood against the resolution.
“The Christian world is going to understand us as having changed the nature of the sacrament of holy matrimony,” Bishop Little said. “The Christian world will look at that liturgy world and see vows, and exchange of rings, a pronouncement and a blessing and they will understand that to mean the Episcopal Church has endorsed same-sex marriage and changed a basic Christian doctrine. I do not believe that we are free to do that.”
But few observers were surprised by the transgender and same-sex resolutions.
A few years ago, the annual national Episcopal convention overwhelmingly refused even to consider a resolution affirming that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Upon returning home from that meeting, Bishop Peter H. Beckwith, leader of the Springfield, Illinois, diocese, wrote in a pastoral letter that the Episcopal church was “in meltdown.”
Beckwith has joined bishops in the dioceses of Central Florida, Dallas, Fort Worth, Pittsburgh, California, and South Carolina in asking their church’s top official, the Archbishop of Canterbury in England, for permission to pull out.
Beckwith says the failure of the resolution introduced by conservatives to declare the church’s “unchanging commitment to Jesus Christ as the son of God, the only name by which any person may be saved” was extremely disturbing.
“When a Christian church cannot bring itself to endorse a bedrock Christian theological statement repeatedly found in the New Testament, it is not a serious Christian church,” wrote Allen.
At this year’s convention, David Virtue reported: “In all the talk about same sex this and transgender that, there is absolutely no talk about sin. A psychologist friend of mine opined that talk of ‘sin’ here would be considered psychologically damaging and offensive to a lot of people, especially gays, so it is off the radar screen. ‘No sin, please; we’re Episcopalians.’
“The national Episcopal AIDS coalition is handing out free male and female condoms to all passersby. I pocketed a few just in case some folks don’t believe me.
“To keep funding for youth ministries alive, a 17-year-old girl stood up in the House of Deputies to say that the Episcopal Church could stay alive if it got into recycling. Poor kid hasn’t got a clue.”
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“It must be galling to the Episcopal liberals that many of the parishes and dioceses that are pulling out are growing instead of shrinking,” noted Jay Tower. “Christ Church Episcopal in Plano, Texas, for example, is one of the largest Episcopal churches in the country. Its 2,200 worshipers on any given Sunday are about equal to the number of active Episcopalians in many of the liberal bishops’ entire dioceses, whose churches average attendance is 80.
“One repeated theme is that the conservatives who are pulling out have no confidence in the denomination’s presiding bishop, the arch-liberal Katharine Jefferts Schori. She allows same-sex union ceremonies in her Nevada diocese and recently used the phrase ‘mother Jesus’ in a sermon.”
Why are Episcopalians leaving one of the oldest denominations in America? Perhaps that can be answered by New Hampshire’s V. Gene Robinson, the openly homosexual Episcopal bishop. When he addressed the fifth annual Planned Parenthood “prayer breakfast” April 15, 2006 in Washington, D.C., he declared that “religious people” are the enemy.
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“We have allowed the Bible to be taken hostage, and it is being wielded by folks who would use it to hit us over the head,” he said. “The sin of Sodom had nothing to do with homosexual sex but was a failure to care for the poor, the widows and the orphans. Scripture is not as plainspoken as some would have us believe.”
When the conservative Anglican diocese that serves the Fresno, California, area voted to leave the U.S. Episcopal denomination, the national denomination did as it has done in Connecticut, Virginia, Florida and Texas, it fought the diocese in court – seeking to seize all property, which includes millions of dollars worth of sanctuaries, parsonages, parish halls and college campuses.
Observer Giles Fraser says that the liberal national leadership doesn’t have a clue. Citing a vote by the diocese of Pittsburgh, led by Bishop Bob Duncan, Fraser explained: “They are sick to death of liberals telling them that ‘gay’ is OK.”
“Anglicanism is in deep trouble,” writes Fraser, “and so, too, is the Church of England. The fact that 46 members of the church’s general synod, its parliament, have written expressing their support for secessionism, bodes very ill.
“Thus far the Archbishop of Canterbury has maintained the traditional Anglican image via media with impeccable impartiality, trying to hold things together with a generous policy of being kinder to his enemies than his friends.
“But the truth is, the only people who now believe that Anglicanism can survive the current crisis in one piece are those holed up in Lambeth Palace” – the Archbishop’s luxurious headquarters in England.
“Fissures have moved through the Episcopal Church, the American arm of the worldwide Anglican Communion, which has 77 million members, and through the Communion itself, since the church ordained V. Gene Robinson as bishop of New Hampshire in 2003,” writes Neela Bannerjee in the New York Times.
Before being named bishop, Robinson deserted his wife and children to take up with a homosexual lover – something that conservative Episcopalians see as adulterous infidelity severely compounded by sexual sin and perversion – certainly enough to disqualify Robinson from any kind of leadership.
They consider the Episcopal Church’s ordination of Robinson as the “most galling proof of its rejection of biblical authority,” writes Bannerjee.
“In the last four years, the Anglican Communion, the world’s third largest Christian body, has edged closer to fracture over the issue. In the United States, several dozen individual congregations out of nearly 7,700 have split with the Episcopal Church.”
The Fresno vote was the first time an entire diocese chose to secede.
The Reverend Ephraim Radner, a leading Episcopal conservative and professor of historical theology at Wycliffe College in Toronto, predicted a huge legal battle – since the national headquarters has vowed to hold onto any buildings of congregations leaving the denomination.
“The costs involved will bleed the Diocese of San Joaquin and the Episcopal Church, and it will lead only to bad press,” said Radner. “You have to wonder why people are wasting money doing this and yet claiming to be Christians.”
 

TerryK

TB Fanatic
There were probably a lot of good Christian members in the Episcopal church at one time.
This is clearly a case of the church that left it's members instead of the other way around.
It's like a small group got control and hijacked the church.
Sad.
 
There were probably a lot of good Christian members in the Episcopal church at one time.
This is clearly a case of the church that left it's members instead of the other way around.
It's like a small group got control and hijacked the church.
Sad.

Exactly. Just like the US government!!!
 

jazzy

Advocate Discernment
if they had any integrity they would just stand up and say 'We are starting our own church with our own beliefs to please all people and leaving Jesus and the bible behind.'

but noooooo, they are trying to drag down Christ to their level and force God to be what they want. heresy or blasphemy mean nothing to them. they havent got a clue. just more of join us, do what you want, feel good and all is well. sheeeesh.
 

knepper

Veteran Member
The Apostate Church is also a sign of the End Times. When the persecution starts, the apostate church will certainly not be a target--in fact, it will likely be among those doing the persecution. The ranks of the benchwarmers who haven't made up their minds will thin out very quickly.
 

Jonas Parker

Hooligan
The "Protestant Episcopal Church of the United States" started to fracture in 1977, when, in opposition to the ordination of females, the conservatives split, forming the Anglican Catholic Church. Now, with the open embrace of homosexuals, PECUSA and those who still enable it are headed for a financial crash which will probably shut down the whole organization.

I've often wondered why homosexuals can't keep their bedroom activities to themselves, but keep trying to make the rest of us "accept" them?

Truly, Christ's words ring true when He said "By their fruits you will know them." PECUSA seems to be the preferred church for fruits (and nuts) of all kinds...
 

Sojourner

Senior Member
I left the Episcopalian church in the 70's after reading a survey saying that 40% (or thereabouts) of the clergy believed in God.

That was too weird for me. It's been years and now I don't know where I read that but anything less than 100% just wasn't working for me.
 

bbbuddy

DEPLORABLE ME
It has to do with people giving up belief in God. Some think Israel is God's people. With 85% atheists?

You've managed to COMPLETELY miss the point of the thread....
godly, believing Christians had to get out of their Church because it was TAKEN OVER BY SATAN.

Has nothing to do with atheists... has to do with Christians and Christ-haters. And (my personal belief) the End Times....
 

Milk-maid

Girls with Guns Member
Once the populace of that religion (or any religion) that crosses the boundaries into heresy, there doesn't seem to be anything that can stop them from sliding all the way down that rabbit hole. They are going down-down-down. They can justify it anyway they want to, but we are not gods... It is a sin to believe we are.
 

Troke

Deceased
Scanned, WSJ 7/13/2012, p a9
Episcopalians from around the country gathered here this week for their church’s 77th triennial General Convention, which ended Thursday. Although other Protestant denominations have national governing councils, the Episcopal Church’s triennial gathering stands apart. For starters, it’s one of the world’s largest such legislative entities, with more than 1,000 members. General Convention is also notable for its sheer ostentation and carnival atmosphere. For seven straight nights, lavish cocktail parties spilled into pricey steakhouses, where bishops could use their diocesan funds to order bottles of the finest wines.

During the day, legislators in the lower chamber, the House of Deputies, and the upper chamber, the House of Bishops, discussed such weighty topics as whether to develop funeral rites for dogs and cats, and whether to ratify resolutions condemning genetically modified foods. Both were approved by a vote, along with a resolution to “dismantle the effects of the doctrine of discovery,” in effect an apology to Native Americans for exposing them to Christianity.

But the party may be over for the Episcopal Church, and so, probably, its experiment with democratic governance; Among the pieces of legislation that came before their convention was a resolution calling for a task force to study transforming the event into a unicameral—that is, a one-house—body. On Wednesday, a resolution to “re-imagine” the church’s governing body passed unanimously.

Formally changing the structure of General Convention will most likely formalize the reality that many Episcopalians already know: a church in the grip of executive committees under the direct supervision of the church’s secretive and authoritarian presiding bishop, Katharine Jefferts Schori. They now set the agenda and decide well inadvance what kind of legislation comes before the two houses.

Bishop Schori is known for brazenly carrying a metropolitan cross during church processions. With its double horizontal bars, the metropolitan cross is a liturgical accouterment that’s typically reserved for Old World bishops. And her reign as presiding bishop has been characterized by actions more akin to a potentate than a clergywoman watching over a flock.

In recent years she’s sued breakaway, traditionalist dioceses which find the mother church increasingly radical. Church legislators have asked publicly how much the legal crusades have cost to no avail. In the week before this summer’s convention, Bishop Schori sent shock waves through the church by putting forth her own national budget without consulting the convention’s budget committee—consisting partly of laymen—which until now has traditionally drafted the document.

Whatever its cost, the litigation against breakaway dioceses—generally, demanding that they return church buildings and other assets—has added to the national church’s financial problems. Many dioceses are no longer willing or able to cough up money to support the national organization, and its bank accounts are running dry. On Monday, for example, the church announced that its headquarters at 815 2nd Avenue in midtown Manhattan—which includes a presiding bishop’s full-floor penthouse with wraparound terrace—is up for sale.

In the past, General Convention, for all its excesses, at least gave ordinary laymen a sense that they had a democratic voice in governing the church. But many Episcopal leaders have chosen to focus more on secular politics than on religion over the years. Donald Hook, author of “The Plight of the Church Traditionalist: A Last Apology,” estimates that church membership has declined to fewer than one million today from three million in 1970. This is another reason, along with financial woes, to save money with a slimmed-down legislature.

And yet there are important issues at stake if laymen are further squeezed out of what was once a transparent legislative process. A long-standing quest by laymen to celebrate the Eucharist—even taking on functions of ordained ministers to consecrate bread and wine for Holy Communion, which is a favorite cause of the church’s left wing—would likely be snuffed out in a unicameral convention in which senior clergy held sway.

Also in jeopardy would be the ability of ordinary laymen to stop the rewriting, in blunt modern language and with politically correct intent, of the church’s historic Book of Common Prayer. The revisionist bishops who would hold sway over a unicameral convention in the future haven’t hid their desire to do away with all connections to Thomas Cranmer, who was appointed archbishop of Canterbury by Henry VIII. He was a classic figure in the English Reformation. But today the man and his prayer book are deemed too traditional by some church bishops.

For some, the writing on the wall is already clear. On Wednesday, the entire delegation from the diocese of South Carolina—among the very last of the traditionalist holdouts— stormed out of the convention.

Put a Femi-Nazi in charge and this is what you will get...every time.
 

mercyangel

Proud Memaw
Praise be to God! After 50 years as an Episcopalian, I am proud to announce that just this morning I and about 60 other former Episcopalians were received into the Anglican Church in North America! And I tell everyone who asks "Why did you leave the Episcopal Church?" that I didn't leave the church, the church left me about a decade ago.
 

Milk-maid

Girls with Guns Member
Praise be to God! After 50 years as an Episcopalian, I am proud to announce that just this morning I and about 60 other former Episcopalians were received into the Anglican Church in North America! And I tell everyone who asks "Why did you leave the Episcopal Church?" that I didn't leave the church, the church left me about a decade ago.

good for you... At least you're not going along with the program. God Bless!
 

Troke

Deceased
Some portion of the Anglican Church in the US has been negotiating with the Vatican to join up as a separate entity like the numerous other groups that acknowledge the leadership of the papacy in matters of dogma, but go their own way in matters of discipline and practice.
 

wait-n-see

Veteran Member
It has to do with people giving up belief in God. Some think Israel is God's people. With 85% atheists?


Incorrect, 85% of Israelis are NOT atheists.

http://www.trincoll.edu/depts/csrpl/RINVol9No2/insert/secular%20jewish%20israeli%20identity.htm

A survey in 2004 showed that 81 percent of Israel’s population defined themselves as Jewish; 12 percent as Muslim; 3.5 percent as Christian (both Arab and non-Arab); 1.5 percent as Druze; 1.5 percent as atheist; and another 0.5 percent as followers of other religions. In terms of religiosity, among Israeli Jews aged 20 and over, 44 percent defined themselves as secular; 27 percent defined themselves as traditional; 12 percent as traditionally observant; 9 percent as Orthodox; and 8 percent as ultra-Orthodox.

This is the only site I can find which claims 85% of Israelis are atheists: http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=204370

"The other day, I heard Fr. Mitch Pacwa say -- I think it was on Marcus Grodi's "Journey Home" program -- that 85% of Israel's population is atheist. My wife and I found this astounding."
 

magnetic1

Veteran Member
I have been an Episcopalian for 50 years, too. I recently found a local church and started going again (took me a few years to get done being mad at God after I lost my husband) but I lasted only 3 Sundays before I realized just how much it has changed. Very disappointing! And certainly not what I want.
Guess I need to see if there is an Anglican Church in this area .........sigh.....
 

American Rage

Inactive
I was born, baptised, raised, and confirmed in the Episcopal Church. I won't set foot inside of it today.

What happened?

The Church was taken over by socialist, psuedo-intellectuals and it has been on the road to hell ever since.
 

TerryK

TB Fanatic
I was born, baptised, raised, and confirmed in the Episcopal Church. I won't set foot inside of it today.

What happened?

The Church was taken over by socialist, psuedo-intellectuals and it has been on the road to hell ever since.

It happened in the Catholic Church too.
There are a lot of "lets all just feel good about everything" churches out there. More every day.
The left have just changed tactics. If they can't destroy churches, they change them from inside.
 

Libbybear

Inactive
I was a member of the local episcopal church here. I was in the choir and a lay reader. I have health issues that helped cause me to stop going to church services. I also was saddened the way the episcopal church was headed in general. They dropped me from the church roll even though I had never requested it and have never checked to see how I was doing or even why I stopped attending.

I have watched the episcopal church from the outside now. I was appalled at what was done at the general convention this year. It isnt a christian church anymore. I dont really know what to call it except that it is "ichabod" according to the bible and could be called the church of Laodicea from the book of Revelations. I used to pray for the church to turn back to God but dont anymore. I think it is too late for this and some other denominations.
 
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