GOV/MIL The EPA is Preparing New Regulations for Wood Stoves and Fireplaces

The EPA is Preparing New Regulations for Wood Stoves and Fireplaces


by John Galt
July 12, 2012 05:00 ET


If you think you can escape the grasp of the regulatory monster, think again. The following is a proposal for revisions to the emissions standards for new wood heaters, but when you read the proposal it is not rocket science to figure out that this engulfs wood stoves and fireplaces (aka, “masonry heaters”) putting the EPA squarely in the middle of a prospective homeowners desire to build a truly energy independent homestead from the ground up. From the EPA website, link at the title below:

Revision of New Source Performance Standards for New Residential Wood Heaters

What’s next? Regulations on emissions for campfires?

Regulations on emissions for campfires?

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More like an outright ban.

One of the books brought to me from the discard pile at the library is the "White Mountain Guide" which is a field guide to the trails and encampments of the White Mountain National Forest. Most interesting reading for one who wishes he were nimble footed and bred to the trails and high mountains of Scotland. (I am not regretfully)

Specifically mentioned - CAMPFIRES ARE PROHIBITED IN THE WHITE MOUNTAIN NATIONAL FOREST.

Which, considering it's high use profile may make a certain amount of sense. So many humans don't know even how to strike a wooden match.

Actually though, this stove emissions thing just one more attempt by the Obama Administration to control Energy sources in the US. While Obama can't outlaw the trade of stoves and wood and chainsaws, he can regulate all their effects if doing so is found "in the common good." And if he can't definitely prove the good, he'll imagine it.

One imagines a future world where each tree will require a permit for it's removal. And an Environmental Impact Statement. And a "Remediation Plan." And inspection (with fees) to assure conformance to the plan.

Surveillance of wood harvesting activity by satellite or Google scan will be de-rigor. Annual thermal scans of one's domicile as well. "Heating Source Performance Inspection" also.

Owner will be required to get a permit to sell wood - and inspection of impounded wood will be required before sale to be sure no predatory infestations exist that might be spread among Owner's buyers. Buyers of his wood will be required to show proof of having met the stove inspection before the sale can be completed.

You're all almost to this same level now with the annual car emissions inspections.

Dobbin

I was told that burning logs gave off the same amount of CO2 as if they rotted away, seems likely


anyway I LIKE CO2, it makes life possible

"Total Government Control" over everything.

They have already started this in WA state, the west side has some new regulations on all woodstoves in certain counties.

Ban ALL alphabet agencies. Every single one.

can someone tell me how one stove is any different than another

Think of a high-tech stove designed to reduce emissions by burning more efficiently. That should be the goal of such an effort. Design features such as size, shape and placement of the air inlet, combustion chamber and flue can make major differences on a stove.

Unfortunately, EPA will probably come up with a requirement for woodstoves calling for catalytic converters, particulate filters and exhaust scrubbers that will require woodstoves to have a connection to a 220volt eletrical outlet to run the darn things and will need a 12ft x 12ft floor footprint to install the stove and all its polution control equipment.

Oh yeah, there will be controls required to prevent the stove from operating when there is no electrical power needed to run the pollution controls. So when the power goes out during cold weather, no one will be able to fire up their woodstove to avoid freezing to death.

After all, they're from the goverment and they're going to do this to help you.

WW

They'll get my wood stove when they pry it from my cold fried fingers............

EPA

Oh c'mon folks, wood stoves burn wood. And wood comes from trees. It is immoral to use trees for anything other than to look at, most certainly not to cut down for fuel. EPA's goal is to cut down on the use of wood either through increased efficiency or making it impossible to do.

I thought everybody knew that.

I'll burn my fireplace..some EPA asshole comes around and says anything about it..well, you all hear the story of Sam McGee?...

Before long, as Troke says, trees will no longer be considered a renewable natural resource. Burning wood will be a high crime equivalent to killing dolphins or whales.
mmmm dolphins are what used to make tuna taste so good.

In the Sacramento and Stockton areas of central Kalifornia, they already tell people which days they can legally burn wood in their fireplaces or wood burning stoves during the winter. And of course people are encourage to call the anonymous hotline to turn in neighbors that are illegally burning.

Richard said:

I was told that burning logs gave off the same amount of CO2 as if they rotted away, seems likely


anyway I LIKE CO2, it makes life possible

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Thats correct its carbon and Co2 neural.

Ta-wo-di said:

EPA

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Brought to you by the same folks who came up with those terrific low-flush toilets....

Your gummint at work...

I knew this was coming. Two or more years ago, I told my husband that this would take place and he encouraged me not to think that way. Well, I have to tell you, if anyone tried to stop our wood stove from being used, I think I might get a little excited about it. I am really tired of reading what this administration is taking over again and again and again. I would like to get back to the U.S.A. Constitution. We have been self-sufficient all of our lives and I don't like to get to the end of it and think that our Government has to tell me when I can be warm, when to take a bath, how high I can turn the thermostate, what I can eat or drink and on and on it goes. Yep, I M sick of it.

Screw the EPACP, EPA Communist Party.

I am tired of this crap, locked and loaded. Same with the outlawing of gardens. I will feed my family how IIIIIIIII see fit.

Watchman2

Troke said:

Oh c'mon folks, wood stoves burn wood. And wood comes from trees. It is immoral to use trees for anything other than to look at, most certainly not to cut down for fuel. EPA's goal is to cut down on the use of wood either through increased efficiency or making it impossible to do.

I thought everybody knew that.

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You got that half right...EPA doesn't really care about efficiency. What they're really after is making it impossible to do (burn wood that is) legally. That's the game. They'll be coming after existing stoves and fireplaces within 5 years, if we as Americans do not get a handle on the problem of the Alphabet Soup Agencies at both Federal and State levels.

On another note, its time to start shunning those (and their families too) that work for the EPA and other assorted state and federal agencies.

Richard said:

I was told that burning logs gave off the same amount of CO2 as if they rotted away, seems likely


anyway I LIKE CO2, it makes life possible

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Richard, you are exactly right. The only difference is the amount of time involved. If a log rots, it takes longer for all of the carbon to enter the atmosphere in the form of CO2 than it does if you burn it.

Living here in Kern County Ca. EPA has declared "no burn" days for fireplaces, wood stoves, etc.
We are 3900 feet above sea level, so right now we are exempt.
That could change, I am sure.
We have power failures each winter sometimes multiple times in a day, and in a week. Without a wood burning stove it would be mighty uncomfortable and cold. We do have a gas furnace, but without power it doesn't work.
Theft of firewood is becoming a problem around here also.
Had a 60 acre brushfire Sunday. Several people lost their cord wood, but thankfully not their lives or homes.
So, what does the govt expect us to do if we can't burn wood? Large tanks of propane are really $$$$ now-guess it's time to start burning the furniture.
FairLight
Linda In CA

So, what does the govt expect us to do if we can't burn wood? Large tanks of propane are really $$$$ now-guess it's time to start burning the furniture.

Your basic enviro would suggest that you move.

Same for cattlemen who are losing cattle to imported wolves.

Move.

Same for loggers and logging towns that lost their livelihood to owls or whatever.

Move.

The Great Forests are to be managed for that 1% that truly understands and appreciates them. The Lesser Classes need to move into high rise apts where they can be watched.

Richard said:

I was told that burning logs gave off the same amount of CO2 as if they rotted away, seems likely

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You are correct about CO2 emissions from rotting wood. CO2 emissions are not what the proposed regulations are about. It's the particles that cause respiratory problems.

The regulations that are being suggested would most likely be more than met by masonry heaters now in use. They are designed by get gasses up to the temps where the nasty hydrocarbons are eliminated, just as they are by the new efficient wood stoves. Efficiency in avoiding release of carcinogens is highly correlated with efficiency in extracting the maximum amount of heat from your wood supply.

Burning wood for heat is an old technology. Now it's possible to get a lot more heat out of a given volume of wood with a lot less pollution. You've got a problem with that?

So, what does the govt expect us to do if we can't burn wood?

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They expect you to buy energy from their "friends."

The object of any business is to create a "niche" in the marketplace. If they can't do it by superior product, or service, or natural market demand, then it's time to seek the aid of law to make a market position.

Food and drugs are among those marketplace commodities it's hard to improve on. A riper tomato, a more effective painkiller, a boston creme donut made from more wholesome ingredients don't really cut it in the marketplace. One supplier of these items is pretty much the same as all suppliers. No one supplier really has the marketplace in command. And competition is killing ALL the producers, not just the weaker ones.

Meanwhile, The FDA was created ostensibly to protect American food and drug consumers. But it's creation was supported by food and drug producers. Why is that? Because it gives producers, government approved and sanctioned producers that is, a leg up on their competition. Their competition being those who might otherwise compete - but don't meet the government standards of production, efficacy, taste, or plain ooie-gooie lip smacking chocolate goodness. Standards that can be very arbitrary depending on who last had the ear of Congress. But if you as producer meet those standards, i.e. you have a good lobbyist in Congress, you're in fat city.

Energy is like that too. One gas station has almost exactly the same gas as the next. Likewise for coal companies. Likewise for electricity. All energy sources are about the same cost within type. And all competing to the point where they're killing each other. Step in the Gooberment. "Oh," says they under influence of the most remunerative lobbyist, "you can't use umpty squat because it pollutes." So the gooberment "creates" a market for their approved energy paths. Paths which "for the good of the environment" MUST be followed. And the chosen energy path is one which just happens to reward the government's "friends."

Obama is doing this now. Strengthening the current energy paths. The existing paths owned by his friends in high places. (HFIHP)

In effect the fences grow higher. You humans are on the inside. And it's time to be "milked."

Dobbin

I really don't think they can make the wood stoves any cleaner burning than they are now and anyone that has an older wood stove this will have no effect on them.

Perhaps someone told the EPA that the wood from trees is NOT renewable???

The brilliant folks at EPA just might believe that.

It's all about CONTROL - nothing more, nothing less!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The sad part is the older folks in charge of these regulatory agencies still had common sense but they are retiring or dying off. The brainless yes men and woman are what's left.

"Burning wood for heat is an old technology. Now it's possible to get a lot more heat out of a given volume of wood with a lot less pollution. You've got a problem with that?"

Yes, I do, when it is shoved down my throat.

Follow the money. How many folks in the U.S. heat and cook using wood-fired stoves? They cost what, maybe 9$900-$2000 to buy and install? Half that if you do it yourself? Then, if a person harvests his own wood or cuts a wood deal (pun intended), a cord of wood can be had for $75-$200, depending on type of wood, delivered or picked-up, etc. What is YOUR average heating bill in the winter? I know mine, for a gas heat pump, jumps from $18/mo in the summer to almost $200/mo or more in the winter months. Multiply that by the millions of households that use wood for heat/cooking and you come up with a pretty good amount. Then consider how much your utilities go up every year! Here, it's been 3-8% annually.

So, let's get rid of the do-it-yourself-heating/cooking-crowd and get everyone back on the grid.

Kajun

aw heck, people will just bend over and take it, they always do

tiger13 said:

I'll burn my fireplace..some EPA asshole comes around and says anything about it..well, you all hear the story of Sam McGee?...

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Sam, I agree...FUG Em!

We've been thinkin about adding one more woodstove to the house for heat. Maybe we should buy one now before the new regs set in and prices go up.....

There are already catalytic convertors on many new stoves, I have no clue on if it is on all new stoves.

Having an air intake from outside for the stove is also more common.

My opinion on this is already set, I bought a used stove from friend when they upgraded. I don't have it installed yet since I rent but I wanted a stove on site when I build a place and I have the stove already.

As far as the comment about getting more heat from a given amount of wood, that kind of varies. The catalytic convertors on stoves do go out eventually and I figure they are kind of like the same thing on vehicles and not all that cheap to replace. Get less heat but don't worry about replaceable parts or deal with replacable parts and get more heat.

I have no issues with technology offering me a better stove to choose from, but this sort of regulation is going to run out the cheap stoves sold for 3 and 4 hundred bucks.

I also have a major issue with cali and their no burn days and what not.

I expect problems to be coming and me being able to afford to heat a place is a potential problem. With a woodstove I might also use it for cooking or heating water as well. Tell a person they can't run a stove when they use it for heating a pot of beans and their wash water and see what happens.

The comments on a camp fire are also right on. I use a burn barrel for all my branches and some of the paper stuff I don't want to just toss in the trash. I figure the day is coming where they will tell me I can afford to just buy a shredder and not worry about some bored meth head assembling my bank statements back to complete paper and trying to steal the money out of my account one way or another. Then again I guess they will force me to go paperless and check on the net for stuff but the day is coming where I can see the net won't be used by me all that much.

Richard said:

I was told that burning logs gave off the same amount of CO2 as if they rotted away, seems likely


anyway I LIKE CO2, it makes life possible

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The Communist Government labeled (Plant Food) CO2 a pollution. Surprised they haven't labeled Oxygen a Pollution.