FOOD A question for you anti-GM food types.
- Thread starter Troke
- Start date
Seems to me, as there are only 7 or so GM products available on the market, with corn, canola and soy being the top 3 used for human consumption, it would not be too hard for a food company to purchase raw materials only from NON-GM corn, canola and soy producers. Sugar is labeled "cane" *in which case it is NOT GM) or just "sugar" in which case there is a good chance it came from GM sugarbeets, so that would be easy to differientiate when purchasing both as a consumer and a food manufacturer.
Seems to me, as there are only 7 or so GM products available on the market, with corn, canola and soy being the top 3 used for human consumption, it would not be too hard for a food company to purchase raw materials only from NON-GM corn, canola and soy producers. Sugar is labeled "cane" *in which case it is NOT GM) or just "sugar" in which case there is a good chance it came from GM sugarbeets, so that would be easy to differientiate when purchasing both as a consumer and a food manufacturer.
Hmmm! Sounds easy. Yet having lived in the real world a pretty long time, I have to wonder. Personally, I think Acme would have one Hell of a time determining whether the stuff was GM or not. Depend on their suppliers to be honest? Would they dare because I assume the penalty for mis-labeling would be savage, like jail time. So they would have to monitor to make sure some GM stuff didn't sneak in accidentally along the way
Easy to do for people who don't have to do it themselves.
Hmmm! Sounds easy. Yet having lived in the real world a pretty long time, I have to wonder. Personally, I think Acme would have one Hell of a time determining whether the stuff was GM or not. Depend on their suppliers to be honest? Would they dare because I assume the penalty for mis-labeling would be savage, like jail time. So they would have to monitor to make sure some GM stuff didn't sneak in accidentally along the way
Easy to do for people who don't have to do it themselves.
kyrsyan
Has No Life - Lives on TB
GMO means the genetic coding was changed. Typically the additional/changed genetic material is not something that would be found in the crop's genome. A genetic test will reveal the change. In order to file their lawsuits the companies had to file patents on the genetic codes that they created. A comparison would show which company made the product. And the genetic additions are things which are not natural to the genome of that plant, so to a genetic scientist they would stand out like a flag whether or not they had the patent information.
One of the seed companies, Baker's Creek, gets their corn seed checked each year before they offer it for sale because the cross contamination has become so severe and Monsanto guts anyone whose found with seed having their genetic coding. It's not cheap testing but I would only buy corn seed from them because of that assurance. It's worth paying more. Unfortunately the types of seed available change and decrease as things get worse.
For store buying - most corn is GMO. You might find an organic supplier or two that is not GMO but you'd need to check. Around here a lot of the smaller farmers do not grow GMO and post signs saying that since their customers have asked.
Most GMO sugar goes to large industry - namely candy companies. But if your sugar is not labeled as cane sugar then you are taking the chance that it's GMO.
Canola is not GMO. It's a hybrid. Big difference. No foreign genetic codes.
IIRC, American grown rice can possible be GMO without the grower knowing it due to Bayer's "accidental" release of a GMO approved feed rice into rice grown for humans. That quickly resulted in GMO rice being banned elsewhere so this is a product that you should buy if it came from Japan or China - not here.
GMO soy is getting bad. I know of a case with one farmer that lost 40 years worth of hybrid planting work because a Monsanto GMO soy crossed with his crops. But I haven't really researched it since we don't do soy at all.
Hope that helps.
One of the seed companies, Baker's Creek, gets their corn seed checked each year before they offer it for sale because the cross contamination has become so severe and Monsanto guts anyone whose found with seed having their genetic coding. It's not cheap testing but I would only buy corn seed from them because of that assurance. It's worth paying more. Unfortunately the types of seed available change and decrease as things get worse.
For store buying - most corn is GMO. You might find an organic supplier or two that is not GMO but you'd need to check. Around here a lot of the smaller farmers do not grow GMO and post signs saying that since their customers have asked.
Most GMO sugar goes to large industry - namely candy companies. But if your sugar is not labeled as cane sugar then you are taking the chance that it's GMO.
Canola is not GMO. It's a hybrid. Big difference. No foreign genetic codes.
IIRC, American grown rice can possible be GMO without the grower knowing it due to Bayer's "accidental" release of a GMO approved feed rice into rice grown for humans. That quickly resulted in GMO rice being banned elsewhere so this is a product that you should buy if it came from Japan or China - not here.
GMO soy is getting bad. I know of a case with one farmer that lost 40 years worth of hybrid planting work because a Monsanto GMO soy crossed with his crops. But I haven't really researched it since we don't do soy at all.
Hope that helps.
Most of the canola grown now days IS genetically modified canola patented by Monsanto. Don't you remember that Canadian farmer who fought Monsanto for years and lost all because his neighboring farmers produced Monsanto's canola and the pollen drifted onto his plants, and cross pollinated, so Mondanto sued him for loss of income as he "stole" their patented seed pollen.
"Genetically modified foods (GM foods, or biotech foods are foods derived from genetically modified organisms"
"Genetically modified foods were first put on the market in 1996. Typically, genetically modified foods are transgenic plant products: soybean, corn, canola, rice, and cotton seed oil."
I'm pretty sure that currently only Monsanto holds patents to genetically modified seeds which are ONLY sold on written contract to large AgriFarms. Those seeds are NOT available to the home gardener. Also according to Monsanto there are only 2 or 3 varieties of GM corn seed available and only 1 sweet corn so far. So you are incorrect is stating most store corn is GM corn - the GM corn is feed corn for animals, now sweet corn for people. Now, if you are absolutely certain of your very generalized statements, please provide some links/documentation.
From a lawsuit filed 03/29/2011..."What makes Monsanto different is its US seed monopoly. Well documented by market authorities, Plaintiffs point out that, “Over 85-90% of all soybeans, corn, cotton, sugar beets and canola grown in the U.S. contains Monsanto’s patented genes.”
"Genetically modified foods (GM foods, or biotech foods are foods derived from genetically modified organisms"
"Genetically modified foods were first put on the market in 1996. Typically, genetically modified foods are transgenic plant products: soybean, corn, canola, rice, and cotton seed oil."
I'm pretty sure that currently only Monsanto holds patents to genetically modified seeds which are ONLY sold on written contract to large AgriFarms. Those seeds are NOT available to the home gardener. Also according to Monsanto there are only 2 or 3 varieties of GM corn seed available and only 1 sweet corn so far. So you are incorrect is stating most store corn is GM corn - the GM corn is feed corn for animals, now sweet corn for people. Now, if you are absolutely certain of your very generalized statements, please provide some links/documentation.
From a lawsuit filed 03/29/2011..."What makes Monsanto different is its US seed monopoly. Well documented by market authorities, Plaintiffs point out that, “Over 85-90% of all soybeans, corn, cotton, sugar beets and canola grown in the U.S. contains Monsanto’s patented genes.”
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Troke, seem to me the easiest way for Acme to be sure of their suppliers is to have said suppliers under contract and available for Acme inspectors at any time. Sort of how different states' organic certification is done.
The supplier you are talking about is Cargill, not Joe Doaks, local farmer, and Acme is General Mills.
I don't see how they could do it without a massive reorganization of their procurement systems, all at considerable expense.
As for that Canadian farmer, I always have had the suspicion he was selling his product as seed. Otherwise, how would he have been discovered?
The supplier you are talking about is Cargill, not Joe Doaks, local farmer, and Acme is General Mills.
I don't see how they could do it without a massive reorganization of their procurement systems, all at considerable expense.
As for that Canadian farmer, I always have had the suspicion he was selling his product as seed. Otherwise, how would he have been discovered?
Not fair to start a thread with incomplete information given! I was supposed to know Acme was GF how? Of course that makes a difference, and I don't appreciate being set up to look foolish.
As to the Canadian farmer, IIRC, he was an organic farmer and lost his organic certification because through certification checking it was discovered his crop WAS crossed with the GM crops down the road. He then brought suit against his neighbors and that is when Monsanto got involved, to protect their investment they said.
But whatever. You continue to do your setting up, but I will not continue to respond and though I have read and enjoyed your posting all these years, I will now be looking at them is a different light for sure.
As to the Canadian farmer, IIRC, he was an organic farmer and lost his organic certification because through certification checking it was discovered his crop WAS crossed with the GM crops down the road. He then brought suit against his neighbors and that is when Monsanto got involved, to protect their investment they said.
But whatever. You continue to do your setting up, but I will not continue to respond and though I have read and enjoyed your posting all these years, I will now be looking at them is a different light for sure.
night driver
ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
Except that the question has some merit.
How does a large company (and Acme has been shorthand for MegaCorp for 50-60 years) asure that they are selling only non-GMO products?? Particularly when their supplier has transported and stored fungible comodities AS fungible comodities???
CAn someone test for example the flour or rolled oats and determine??
How does a large company (and Acme has been shorthand for MegaCorp for 50-60 years) asure that they are selling only non-GMO products?? Particularly when their supplier has transported and stored fungible comodities AS fungible comodities???
CAn someone test for example the flour or rolled oats and determine??
Not fair to start a thread with incomplete information given! I was supposed to know Acme was GF how? Of course that makes a difference, and I don't appreciate being set up to look foolish......and Acme has been shorthand for MegaCorp for 50-60 years
My apologies, I thought everybody knew that. And thanks for the info on the farmer. Odd result, one wonders if there was more to it.
My apologies, I thought everybody knew that. And thanks for the info on the farmer. Odd result, one wonders if there was more to it.
The only way to make sure that GMOs are not in your seed or product is to buy certified organic. Only certified organic products are allowed to say "contains no GMOs". As a certified organic producer, all the inputs to my farm must be certified organic and for seeds I must also get a separate letter that states the seeds are free from artificial genetic modifications. But because there is no testing done, it all comes down to the word of the producers and the organic inspectors. It is likely that there is some GM contamination in some organic products just due to the prevalence of GM seed in conventional agriculture. Small farmers can't afford to do genetic testing.
The flip side of this is that it is illegal for conventional producers to market their products as free from GMO's. The GM producers and their friends in Congress have seen to that.
The flip side of this is that it is illegal for conventional producers to market their products as free from GMO's. The GM producers and their friends in Congress have seen to that.
I don't think there is an answer to your question.
Here is an article that throw a little light on the subject.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=genetically-modified-hawaii
Here is an article that throw a little light on the subject.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=genetically-modified-hawaii
kyrsyan
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Yes the seed and food can be tested. It's a genetic test. It's not cheap. That type of testing is how Monsanto gathers evidence to sue farmers. Monsanto has made great deals of money off of suing farmers that end up with accidentally cross contaminated crops.
The Amish a few counties over from me are facing a serious decision regarding the use of Monsanto seed. Due to an unfortunate bad decision made years ago they may be forced into a Monsanto based crop. Either that or not planting corn for at least 5 years.
BTW, there are other GM companies besides Monsanto. Syngenta has a food GM corn that has been available for 10 years. Up until recently GM corn has been processed into other products. WalMart decided this year to carry GM corn as a freezer vegetable. So I was partially incorrect. Until this year, unless you got GM from the farmer, your freezer or fresh corn was most likely not GMO. As of this year, if you don't want GMO don't buy the type WalMart is offering. But avoiding it in corn syrup, or anything else corn based, is a gamble.
If you are buying seed to grow then buy from a company that does not sell any GMOs. A study a few years back revealed that companies that carried multiple varieties of seeds had cross contamination issues. Nothing deliberate, just basic stuff. Anyways, because of that there was the risk of ending up with some seed that was not what the label said. (This is a somewhat normal thing.) Anyways, quite a few seed companies stepped up and started refusing to sell GMO on their retail side or on their industrial side. When I buy seed, I buy from those companies. If I had the money, I'd buy 3 packets of each corn that Baker's Creek tests every year. And I'd put them back because soon enough non contaminated corn seed is going to become very hard to find.
The Amish a few counties over from me are facing a serious decision regarding the use of Monsanto seed. Due to an unfortunate bad decision made years ago they may be forced into a Monsanto based crop. Either that or not planting corn for at least 5 years.
BTW, there are other GM companies besides Monsanto. Syngenta has a food GM corn that has been available for 10 years. Up until recently GM corn has been processed into other products. WalMart decided this year to carry GM corn as a freezer vegetable. So I was partially incorrect. Until this year, unless you got GM from the farmer, your freezer or fresh corn was most likely not GMO. As of this year, if you don't want GMO don't buy the type WalMart is offering. But avoiding it in corn syrup, or anything else corn based, is a gamble.
If you are buying seed to grow then buy from a company that does not sell any GMOs. A study a few years back revealed that companies that carried multiple varieties of seeds had cross contamination issues. Nothing deliberate, just basic stuff. Anyways, because of that there was the risk of ending up with some seed that was not what the label said. (This is a somewhat normal thing.) Anyways, quite a few seed companies stepped up and started refusing to sell GMO on their retail side or on their industrial side. When I buy seed, I buy from those companies. If I had the money, I'd buy 3 packets of each corn that Baker's Creek tests every year. And I'd put them back because soon enough non contaminated corn seed is going to become very hard to find.