GOV/MIL Women Going to Ranger School and they will graduate or Else!!!!

T

Thomas Paine

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Weaponsman Blog is reporting it has been decreed that women will go to rnger school, and thta while not every one of them will be garunteed graduation, everyone that is washed out will have to be specially justified. Screw it's the end of our armed forces in the name of Social Programs and looking Fashonable. I'm just a lowly 11b light infantry type who was never tabbed but DAMN IT MAN!!! this is going tooo far.

http://weaponsman.com/?p=2814
 
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Hfcomms

Hfcomms

EN66iq
You couldn't pay me enough to get me back in now (even if I was of any use to them...heh). Both enlisted and commissioned was regular army and the special forces guys were truly a breed apart. I can't imagine a woman being able to hack it. Quite a few years ago now I remember a female Navy Pilot who killed both herself and her RIO on an aborted carrier landing after a flame out and she just wasn't good enough to be a fighter pilot. Her records showed her to be below average in most scores but there was pressure from above to qualify her in order to show that the women are just as qualified as the men. In this case as I understand it, it came down to brute strength to have enough leg to keep the nose straight with the hydraulics failing and she wasn't strong enough and augured in.
 
T

TWSTR

Inactive
Wow...the end of the world must really be upon us. Although I gotta tell ya, I remember seeing some gals both in the Suck AND the Army that I think had more testosterone than I did. (no offense ladies...) But women have smaller hearts and lungs, that may not be PC but it's just the way it is, and when push comes to shove they would not out perform a man with the same training, skill and level of fitness in most situations...I would not want to rely on a woman to hump my @ss to the evac when some muzzy got lucky. And also, that famous "monthly visitor" will put off a larger heat signature, not to mention dogs will be able to very easily pick up that scent...sorry if that seems vulgar, I don't mean it that way. Not to mention our culture of men engrained to help/save/assist women, it's in our DNA, we would compromise the unit and/or the mission eventually...look how GWB gave a speech based solely on the fact that muzzies had snatched that little blonde from the South after shooting up her convoy (while she hid and cried no less...), Ops team was sent in just to get her, etc. We over emphasized the fact that she was female versus another soldier. Lastly, and this WILL happen, sex will be a factor...seen it a thousand times, take two professionals and put a female between them and things get stupid...it's just the way we are built.
I love my mother, wife and daughters...women are better than men at many things...but ground combatants ESPECIALLY operators they should not be IMHO.

Ranger grad - 1993
SFQC grad - 1994
 
Tiamat214

Tiamat214

Senior Member
with the last 2 lines of your statement i believe it is prudent that all know you most definently know what you are talking about.

and thanks for your service.


TWSTR said:
Wow...the end of the world must really be upon us. Although I gotta tell ya, I remember seeing some gals both in the Suck AND the Army that I think had more testosterone than I did. (no offense ladies...) But women have smaller hearts and lungs, that may not be PC but it's just the way it is, and when push comes to shove they would not out perform a man with the same training, skill and level of fitness in most situations...I would not want to rely on a woman to hump my @ss to the evac when some muzzy got lucky. And also, that famous "monthly visitor" will put off a larger heat signature, not to mention dogs will be able to very easily pick up that scent...sorry if that seems vulgar, I don't mean it that way. Not to mention our culture of men engrained to help/save/assist women, it's in our DNA, we would compromise the unit and/or the mission eventually...look how GWB gave a speech based solely on the fact that muzzies had snatched that little blonde from the South after shooting up her convoy (while she hid and cried no less...), Ops team was sent in just to get her, etc. We over emphasized the fact that she was female versus another soldier. Lastly, and this WILL happen, sex will be a factor...seen it a thousand times, take two professionals and put a female between them and things get stupid...it's just the way we are built.
I love my mother, wife and daughters...women are better than men at many things...but ground combatants ESPECIALLY operators they should not be IMHO.

Ranger grad - 1993
SFQC grad - 1994
Click to expand...
 
ssbn642blue

ssbn642blue

Veteran Member
They want to put women on submarines. It will happen in the near future. they (women), are all ready in the pipeline.


Think about that. Under water for 75-80 days without coming up for air.

Oh, by the way, been there, done that, for ten years. Women won't make the grade unless they can't get pregnant. Another thread though. Think Manpower and logistics.
 
T

TWSTR

Inactive
ssbn642blue said:
They want to put women on submarines. It will happen in the near future. they (women), are all ready in the pipeline.


Think about that. Under water for 75-80 days without coming up for air.

Oh, by the way, been there, done that, for ten years. Women won't make the grade unless they can't get pregnant. Another thread though. Think Manpower and logistics.
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Women are already on submarines my friend...they had to modify two nuke subs to make accommodations for separate women's showers, etc. Think about it, a submarine is a highly condensed machine of war...I wonder what they had to sacrifice or get rid of to make room for a women's bathroom...I'm not a woman hater, just a realist. I prefer to win wars not experiment.
 
Lurker

Lurker

14
erichtmobile said:
Any one with combat under thier belt wanna comment on the potential sanitation issues.
Click to expand...

Gals in hot zones are nasty, no doubt about it. Not showering or only hoar baths are not good for gals. Of course men being men..... Some won't care.. REMFs are bad enough but frontline gals will be gross especially 'then'. What happens when they have to hump a sixty around with a full ruck and the second day of bad cramps - don't think I'd want her covering me.
 
T

TWSTR

Inactive
Tiamat214 said:
with the last 2 lines of your statement i believe it is prudent that all know you most definently know what you are talking about.

and thanks for your service.
Click to expand...

Thanks but it was honestly just another paycheck, I don't even have the license plate...I bailed once my first child was born and my focus changed. A lot of kids in the desert coming home these days screwed up, pray for them. I did over 13 years for Uncle Sam, now I'm living for me.
 
H

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
Hfcomms said:
You couldn't pay me enough to get me back in now (even if I was of any use to them...heh). Both enlisted and commissioned was regular army and the special forces guys were truly a breed apart. I can't imagine a woman being able to hack it. Quite a few years ago now I remember a female Navy Pilot who killed both herself and her RIO on an aborted carrier landing after a flame out and she just wasn't good enough to be a fighter pilot. Her records showed her to be below average in most scores but there was pressure from above to qualify her in order to show that the women are just as qualified as the men. In this case as I understand it, it came down to brute strength to have enough leg to keep the nose straight with the hydraulics failing and she wasn't strong enough and augured in.
Click to expand...

In seeing this and starting to read the thread that incident came to mind as well. I'm afraid that the only way this is going to get fixed is with a large quantity of body bags coming home and hard questions being asked under the stark light of a non-PC Congress. Needless to say, I'm not holding my breath for this to happen before such a tragedy occurs, never mind getting a non-PC Congress.
 
packyderms_wife

packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
Lurker said:
Gals in hot zones are nasty, no doubt about it. Not showering or only hoar baths are not good for gals. Of course men being men..... Some won't care.. REMFs are bad enough but frontline gals will be gross especially 'then'. What happens when they have to hump a sixty around with a full ruck and the second day of bad cramps - don't think I'd want her covering me.
Click to expand...

Only because after a second day of listening to your whining highness we'd end up shooting your arse! Seriously you are under estimating women and an a major way!

Those opposed really should do some research on the role of women in the american revolution and the US civil war. Women fought alongside their husbands, brothers, and fathers. I realize that this fact is not very well know but the reality is women have been fighting on the frontlines for thousands of years, the most famous of which was Boudica.

K-
 
packyderms_wife

packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
Housecarl said:
In seeing this and starting to read the thread that incident came to mind as well. I'm afraid that the only way this is going to get fixed is with a large quantity of body bags coming home and hard questions being asked under the stark light of a non-PC Congress. Needless to say, I'm not holding my breath for this to happen before such a tragedy occurs, never mind getting a non-PC Congress.
Click to expand...

Or for all of the flat footed girly men out there to suck it up and enlist regardless of their complaints and short comings. This wouldn't be happening if there were more men to draw from. I have friends that are still active, both Army and Navy and I'm talking both male and female career military here, and they are complaining that there is a shortage of men enlisting, most are afraid they might get hurt... or heaven forbid actually have to get up off of their flat nutz and do something that requires breaking a sweat.

K-
 
M

Masterchief117

I'm all about the doom
packyderms_wife said:
Or for all of the flat footed girly men out there to suck it up and enlist regardless of their complaints and short comings. This wouldn't be happening if there were more men to draw from. I have friends that are still active, both Army and Navy and I'm talking both male and female career military here, and they are complaining that there is a shortage of men enlisting, most are afraid they might get hurt... or heaven forbid actually have to get up off of their flat nutz and do something that requires breaking a sweat.

K-
Click to expand...

Or maybe they figured out that it isn't worth getting shipped off to some hell hole and getting killed over a war that they can't win because the politicians won't allow them to.
 
S

Sneaker 11

RECONDO
I can't imagine the fallout from this stupid decision. The intimacy involved during missions with my Ranger team in VN would have no place for a female. I have not ran across on woman in my 27 years in the military who could hump a ruck like we did and make the mission. Also, the intensity of close combat requires every man disciplined to his area of responsibility. If I had to 'take care' of a split tale, it would most likely end up in disaster.

I love my wife of 43 years and she absolutely cannot fathom the idiocy of woman in combat and I am sure she will have a cat when she hears of this. RLTW
 
L

Lone Wolf

Lives on TB
Do ya think the Russians and the Chines are worried about our gays and females in the various services?

They are probebly laughing their arses off while they await orders to cream us..

lw
 
H

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
packyderms_wife said:
Or for all of the flat footed girly men out there to suck it up and enlist regardless of their complaints and short comings. This wouldn't be happening if there were more men to draw from. I have friends that are still active, both Army and Navy and I'm talking both male and female career military here, and they are complaining that there is a shortage of men enlisting, most are afraid they might get hurt... or heaven forbid actually have to get up off of their flat nutz and do something that requires breaking a sweat.

K-
Click to expand...

Between the aspect that Masterchief117 pointed out and this, what's the solution then to this socio-political problem then, universal conscription or a wholesale change out of the professional political class/ruling elites and a "scrubbing of attitudes" with the said same making the decisions and setting school curriculum and social norms?
 
fairbanksb

fairbanksb

Freedom Isn't Free
packyderms_wife said:
Only because after a second day of listening to your whining highness we'd end up shooting your arse! Seriously you are under estimating women and an a major way!

Those opposed really should do some research on the role of women in the american revolution and the US civil war. Women fought alongside their husbands, brothers, and fathers. I realize that this fact is not very well know but the reality is women have been fighting on the frontlines for thousands of years, the most famous of which was Boudica.

K-
Click to expand...

Special forces training is a tad more rigorous than a boot camp. There is only a certain percentage of men who can make the grade. To lower standards just so woman can serve in the special forces will diminish the elite troops than special forces are. If a woman can get through the training at the same standards then fine but to have to justify why each was washed out is nonsense.
 
H

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
packyderms_wife said:
Only because after a second day of listening to your whining highness we'd end up shooting your arse! Seriously you are under estimating women and an a major way!

Those opposed really should do some research on the role of women in the american revolution and the US civil war. Women fought alongside their husbands, brothers, and fathers. I realize that this fact is not very well know but the reality is women have been fighting on the frontlines for thousands of years, the most famous of which was Boudica.

K-
Click to expand...

With all due respect, when a society consciously places its women into the front line, it usually is under circumstances of great crisis. In the case of Boudica the Brits were looking down the pointy end of the entire weight of Rome and her Legions in a bid for freedom v. slavery. Same goes for women in the Resistance in Occupied Europe or the Russians and Germans in World War 2 or settlers holding off attacks by hostile Indians, the French Revolution or the wars in Indochina or other revolutionary circumstances.

The women in "direct combat" roles in the American Revolutionary War and Civil War, aside from Molly Pitcher, espionage or extreme emergencies, were in the main not openly serving as women if I recall my history correctly.
 
D

Dreamer

Veteran Member
What a shame. Affirmative action is destroying just about everything. If they allow women in, they should not adapt the standards and should not provide any accommodations for the women, including for their monthly time. Perhaps even add scent detection avoidance to the protocol, while mimicking conditions similar to the field, so that those who have no period for whatever reason aren't excluded on this factor and men who can't keep a decent scent profile are highlighted as well. I know some tough-ass ladies, and while there are a few out there that could make the cut, most couldn't. So long as standards aren't relaxed, those looking to fluff their resumes would have less to whine about not having the opportunity as well. Now, any woman who makes it through will have an asterisk after the qualifications, as will likely any man who goes through the softened training. Such a shame.
(from a woman)
 
N

NC Susan

Deceased
Common Sense is completely removed from todays Officers
Educated Idiots.
As another man mentioned, Leadership is now available as a Correspondence Course -

-------------

The Company Commander and the First Sergeant were in the field. As they hit the sack for the night, the First Sergeant said, "Sir, look up into the sky and tell me what you see?"
The CO said, "I see millions of stars."
1st Sgt.: "And what does that tell you, sir?"
CO: "Astronomically, it tells me that there are millions of galaxies and potentially billions of planets. Theologically, it tells me that God is great and that we are small and insignificant. Meteorologically, it tells me that we will have a beautiful day tomorrow. What does it tell you, Top?"
1st Sgt.: "Well sir, it tells me that somebody stole our tent."
 
LightEcho

LightEcho

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Sneaker 11 said:
I can't imagine the fallout from this stupid decision. The intimacy involved during missions with my Ranger team in VN would have no place for a female. I have not ran across on woman in my 27 years in the military who could hump a ruck like we did and make the mission. Also, the intensity of close combat requires every man disciplined to his area of responsibility. If I had to 'take care' of a split tale, it would most likely end up in disaster.

I love my wife of 43 years and she absolutely cannot fathom the idiocy of woman in combat and I am sure she will have a cat when she hears of this. RLTW
Click to expand...

Fully agree.

When I went thru Ranger school, I got dicked by my squad. They were mostly smaller whiney boys. Since I was the biggest, they always gave me the heaviest load. I know what it is to zombie out.

When you have girls who cannot share the load, you wear down the others. I never met a woman who could have gone through what I did.... and few men.
 
T

Thomas Paine

Has No Life - Lives on TB
packyderms_wife said:
Or for all of the flat footed girly men out there to suck it up and enlist regardless of their complaints and short comings. This wouldn't be happening if there were more men to draw from. I have friends that are still active, both Army and Navy and I'm talking both male and female career military here, and they are complaining that there is a shortage of men enlisting, most are afraid they might get hurt... or heaven forbid actually have to get up off of their flat nutz and do something that requires breaking a sweat.

K-
Click to expand...
Services were having no problems meeting recruitment quotas, and are working on putting people out on another stupid down. Also speaking as a lowly knuckle dragging one time 11b10 light infantryman, there is a big difference between women working as clerks, nurses and staff folks and working combat support and combat roles.The military has hidden what has happened to our women prisoners in the current conflicts and in the first desert outings rather well A small percentage of women a very small percentage , have a place in special units as support and as covert personnel.The physical standards for women and men are different because women and men are different. I cannot see a woman carrying her body weight doing a 12 or 20 mile movement then an ambush or even further movement to contact, I've done it(25 + years ago) and there are a lot of men who avoid combat arms because they can't or want do it. Women can fight when cornered but that ain't what they are wired or designed to do as a primary mission, it ain't politically correct but it's the truth.
 
Milk-maid

Milk-maid

Girls with Guns Member
We had women on the police department where I worked, that were so strong they could run circles around most men I know, even the guys on the department. They couldn't get on the SWAT team because of their gender only...(it's just a big boy's club who's allowed to vote in the candidates.) These were good women denied entrance to a job they fully tested for and qualified for with ease. There are women out there able and willing. Lungs and heart capacity had nothing to do with denying them entry. I was sad to see this happen to them.
 
G

Garryowen

Deceased
I'd like to hear Maureen's input on this one. One of our local women in the NG came back from Iraq. She was a semi rig driver. Ended up committing suicide because she just couldn't cope with her experience. Yes, it happens to men also, but not generally men in non-combat positions.
 
Hfcomms

Hfcomms

EN66iq
Milk-maid said:
Lungs and heart capacity had nothing to do with denying them entry. I was sad to see this happen to them.
Click to expand...

Point well taken. However I'm sure that you would acquiesce to the point that there is just a slight difference between a swat operation that might last a few hours to a couple of shifts as opposed to a ranger team that might be out in the bush for several weeks behind enemy lines, has to be self supporting and has to be in a virtual hide position during that time. For mental endurance some women I'm sure could do as well or even better than their male counterparts. However physical endurance, strength and the physiological challenges that women will have on a long deployment make it a game changer. Some things have nothing to do with equal opportunity but have everything to do with whether or not the mission is accomplished. There are some things that females are really not cut out for and there are some things that males are not cut out for. Doesn't mean that one sex is better than the other but it recognizes that our creator made us different for different functions and roles. When we go against that design we create problems for ourselves.
 
AlaskaSue

AlaskaSue

North to the Future
Masterchief117 said:
Or maybe they figured out that it isn't worth getting shipped off to some hell hole and getting killed over a war that they can't win because the politicians won't allow them to.
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^ This +1000!

It's just another step down that slick slope and I don't see a way back up it. One more PC decision that will lead to dead soldiers. God help us.
 
Sid Vicious

Sid Vicious

Veteran Member
The problem is the military is going to hold women in SF to different standards. They already did in the regular Navy. As an example, I had to run a mile and half in 12:30 or under, women of the same age group had 15 minutes. (17-21 age group)
 
T

Thomas Paine

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Milk-maid said:
We had women on the police department where I worked, that were so strong they could run circles around most men I know, even the guys on the department. They couldn't get on the SWAT team because of their gender only...(it's just a big boy's club who's allowed to vote in the candidates.) These were good women denied entrance to a job they fully tested for and qualified for with ease. There are women out there able and willing. Lungs and heart capacity had nothing to do with denying them entry. I was sad to see this happen to them.
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Milk Maid there is a hell of a difference between a SWAT Unit/ Training and ranger school. SOme of the guys here can chime in but from what I recall form my buddies the average sleep time was less than 4 hours a day, constant combat operations,the load out was a 50 pound ruck, weapons and other equipment plus whatever team weapons carried(M-60 in my day, M240/M-249 these days) It's more than a leadership school it an infantry combat arms finishing school to turn out warriors, life takers and heart breakers. This action is being pushed because women officers want the ability to get a ticket punch. If you will read the blog I linked to you will see they are talking about lowering standards before women get to the first class so they can claim the women are meeting the same standards as men. This is a political operation nothing more and any woman in yuniform should be professional enough to admit there are certain things if done will endanger lives and standards.
 
packyderms_wife

packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
Milk-maid said:
We had women on the police department where I worked, that were so strong they could run circles around most men I know, even the guys on the department. They couldn't get on the SWAT team because of their gender only...(it's just a big boy's club who's allowed to vote in the candidates.) These were good women denied entrance to a job they fully tested for and qualified for with ease. There are women out there able and willing. Lungs and heart capacity had nothing to do with denying them entry. I was sad to see this happen to them.
Click to expand...

And it's THESE women who could and would do well in the special forces... I'm not talking every broad with a bad case of PMS whose wanting to make a point. The number of women who can really do the job are just as few as the number of men who can really do the job.

Hitler realized this hence his obsession with genetics and the desire to create a special breed of humans and military force... because in reality only the few are capable, and very often it's genetic.

K-
 
packyderms_wife

packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
Thomas Paine said:
Milk Maid there is a hell of a difference between a SWAT Unit/ Training and ranger school. SOme of the guys here can chime in but from what I recall form my buddies the average sleep time was less than 4 hours a day, constant combat operations,the load out was a 50 pound ruck, weapons and other equipment plus whatever team weapons carried(M-60 in my day, M240/M-249 these days) It's more than a leadership school it an infantry combat arms finishing school to turn out warriors, life takers and heart breakers. This action is being pushed because women officers want the ability to get a ticket punch. If you will read the blog I linked to you will see they are talking about lowering standards before women get to the first class so they can claim the women are meeting the same standards as men. This is a political operation nothing more and any woman in yuniform should be professional enough to admit there are certain things if done will endanger lives and standards.
Click to expand...


you do realize that most women with children under the age of five average something like 4-5 hours of sleep a day, if that??? This is especially true if one has toddlers and newborns at the same time.

K-
 
packyderms_wife

packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
Sid Vicious said:
The problem is the military is going to hold women in SF to different standards. They already did in the regular Navy. As an example, I had to run a mile and half in 12:30 or under, women of the same age group had 15 minutes. (17-21 age group)
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Now that's amazing! My high school PE teacher must have been sadistic or something as she required ALL OF US GIRLS to run a mile in ten minutes or less. If you didn't make the time you got an "F" plain and simple. Even as fat as I am right now I can WALK a mile in 15 minutes or less.

K-
 
packyderms_wife

packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
Hfcomms said:
Point well taken. However I'm sure that you would acquiesce to the point that there is just a slight difference between a swat operation that might last a few hours to a couple of shifts as opposed to a ranger team that might be out in the bush for several weeks behind enemy lines, has to be self supporting and has to be in a virtual hide position during that time. For mental endurance some women I'm sure could do as well or even better than their male counterparts. However physical endurance, strength and the physiological challenges that women will have on a long deployment make it a game changer. Some things have nothing to do with equal opportunity but have everything to do with whether or not the mission is accomplished. There are some things that females are really not cut out for and there are some things that males are not cut out for. Doesn't mean that one sex is better than the other but it recognizes that our creator made us different for different functions and roles. When we go against that design we create problems for ourselves.
Click to expand...

I'm hoping some of the female members here that not only have children but are also NURSES will chime in on the physilogical challenges of being a female.

No not all women are cut out for special forces, and for the person who brought it up there's a book out there called women and war I do believe, it's about women on the frontline in the American Revolution and the Civil Wars. Women were in the foxholes right next to their brothers, fathers and husbands. They tended wounds, loaded guns/cannons, prepared meals and in quite a few situations were much better shots than their male counterparts and were doing the firing.

K-
 
F

FairLight

Inactive
packyderms_wife said:
you do realize that most women with children under the age of five average something like 4-5 hours of sleep a day, if that??? This is especially true if one has toddlers and newborns at the same time.

K-
Click to expand...
Dealing with toddlers and small children, while a challenge, does not compare to being in country and on foreign ground using all necessary skills and strategy to stay alive and keep others alive.
I do not see women qualified for all the reasons the posters above stated, some of them SF experienced.
As far as a 10 minute mile to run? No, try a four minute mile.
Men have the physical advantage as well as the necessary mind set.
It's what they are good at, they set the high standards where they need to be.
I thank these men for their bravery and for caring enough and having skills enough to defend our freedom.
I fear what this country is coming to.
FairLight
 
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